Justice Society of America #23 Preview-Discussion and spoilers [Archive]

Shellhead

01-26-2009, 11:58 AM

This panel is good, but overall I haven't enjoyed Ordway's recent work. He keeps drawing everybody with huge, crazy eyes with dilated pupils, like a bunch of drug fiends. In this panel with Black Adam, that weakness actually works to an advantage, giving us a truly scary Black Adam.

Hawkman

01-26-2009, 12:53 PM

I'm more excited for this than I am Final Crisis #7.

Kid Kamikaze10

01-26-2009, 12:55 PM

Black Adam is about to bust dat a$$!!!

(Like Faust did to his wife... Low blow, I know..)

Karl O'Neill

01-26-2009, 01:03 PM

I think final crisis edge's this out for slighty for excitment, but this should awesome all the same.

Hawkman needs to lead his own team for a change.

HaroldAllnut

01-26-2009, 01:41 PM

Hawkman needs to lead his own team for a change.

I wonder if they're building up to a Hawkman solo book? Wasn't there recent talk of one happening in the near future?

Hawkman

01-26-2009, 02:18 PM

I wonder if they're building up to a Hawkman solo book? Wasn't there recent talk of one happening in the near future?
2007 San Diego Comic Con, it was said at the Big Guns panel that there was going to be a new Hawkman title. I've since given up on that statement. Starlin also said to Newsarama before the Hawkman Special came out that he would be spending more time with Hawkman in the future, but with the mixed reactions the issue received I wouldn't be surprised if those plans fell through.

It does seems like if DC wanted to launch a companion title to JSA, though, now would be a good time to do it, with Hawkman leading the team.

JDanknich

01-26-2009, 02:21 PM

As long as Jim Starlin isn't writing it, I'm all for a new Hawkman solo book or a JSA spinoff team with Hawkman at the forefront. But please, no Jim Starlin!

FemGeek

01-26-2009, 02:53 PM

I think Hawkman is great, but he had been acting like a massive bollix during the Gog crisis. He needs himself a time-out (and a solo series). The art looks good iin the previews, though I think Ordway's stuff can be a little off the odd time. Looking forward to Black Adam again :)

celticguy

01-26-2009, 03:03 PM

wonder if hawkman could find his way to the New JL whenever that rolls out.

It would be fun watching GA and him interact.

pariah-1972

01-26-2009, 05:46 PM

I'm not crazy about that picture i dunno Black Adam looks a bit off to me.

CBikle

01-26-2009, 08:02 PM

wonder if hawkman could find his way to the New JL whenever that rolls out.

It would be fun watching GA and him interact.

I've been thinking the same thing, plus he and Ray Palmer are old friends.

Lots of potential there.

CBikle

01-26-2009, 08:09 PM

Felix Faust seems to piss people off, a lot.

Abraxas

01-26-2009, 10:35 PM

As long as Jim Starlin isn't writing it, I'm all for a new Hawkman solo book or a JSA spinoff team with Hawkman at the forefront. But please, no Jim Starlin!

They give Starlin all those space books. I don't know why. Look at the horrible mess you get with Death of the New Gods. The artwork and the writing as bad as Liefeld.

Hawkman should be returned to Palmiotti and Grey. I think they did a better job then Johns and Robinson.

Come to think of it, Palmiotti and Grey should write JSA. They are qualified enough.

Doc Goblin

01-26-2009, 10:38 PM

Is Eaglesham not doing this arc? That's disappointing. Ordway's art is okay, but I prefer Eaglesham's.

I agree DC needs to do something with Hawkman now. What better time is there to relaunch his title than coming off of Geoff Johns' JSA run? The problem is getting a writer for it. DC can't just keep depending on Johns to do these things. I'd say Tomasi, Robinson or JMS would be good options.

Karl O'Neill

01-27-2009, 03:00 AM

Palmiotti and gray should write Hawkman more often.

They Totally get him.

robbieglenn

01-27-2009, 04:27 AM

oh JSA, How I Love Thee....Let Me Count The Ways....

JDanknich

01-27-2009, 08:36 AM

They give Starlin all those space books. I don't know why. Look at the horrible mess you get with Death of the New Gods. The artwork and the writing as bad as Liefeld.

Hawkman should be returned to Palmiotti and Grey. I think they did a better job then Johns and Robinson.

Come to think of it, Palmiotti and Grey should write JSA. They are qualified enough.

Palmiotti and Grey's run on Hawkman is extremely overlooked and underrated. Frankly, I thought they would be in the running to write JSA. Perhaps they will be in the future depending on how Willingham and Sturges' run goes. And why haven't they announced an artist yet?

Shellhead

01-27-2009, 09:40 AM

They give Starlin all those space books. I don't know why. Look at the horrible mess you get with Death of the New Gods. The artwork and the writing as bad as Liefeld.

Hawkman should be returned to Palmiotti and Grey. I think they did a better job then Johns and Robinson.

Come to think of it, Palmiotti and Grey should write JSA. They are qualified enough.

They give Starlin the space books because he wrote some great space stories in the past: Captain Marvel, Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Thanos, and Dreadstar. But Starlin doesn't seem to have a feel for DC's alien races.

Abraxas

01-27-2009, 10:13 AM

Palmiotti and Grey's run on Hawkman is extremely overlooked and underrated. Frankly, I thought they would be in the running to write JSA. Perhaps they will be in the future depending on how Willingham and Sturges' run goes. And why haven't they announced an artist yet?

I like Willingham. But I'd rather have Jimmy and Justin. Sturges, I read his Deadman, didn't care for it.

Maybe the JSA art team is like the snafu DC had with Titans. Art team switcharoo. Solicit one team only to have another on the comic.

celticguy

01-27-2009, 12:03 PM

I must say i enjoyed Jay being a smart ass.

Hawkman always comes back.

Abraxas

01-27-2009, 12:28 PM

Jay, Ted, and Alan are the heart and soul of the JSA. Others may come and go, but as long as you have those three you can't go wrong.

But Hawkman should get his own branch of the JSA.

celticguy

01-27-2009, 12:45 PM

I would not create another JSA.

If you want to put him on the outsiders or the robinson JL fine but lets not mirror the avengers and have too many books with the same team name.

Samuraixsithlord

01-27-2009, 03:07 PM

Wow Faust is fuc%$#.

Would have been a smarter move just to reunite Isis with Black Adam and stick to the deal.

rwe1138

01-27-2009, 07:46 PM

Sturges, I read his Deadman, didn't care for it.

When did he write Deadman?

Karl O'Neill

01-28-2009, 12:27 PM

Anybody read this yet?

mimic_616

01-28-2009, 12:28 PM

God I love Black Adam. Why arn't there any statues or busts of him!? :evilangry:

JDanknich

01-28-2009, 01:38 PM

Not gonna spoil anything here, but the events of Final Crisis #7 are going to have a profound affect on Hawkman going forward.

celticguy

01-28-2009, 02:02 PM

God I love Black Adam. Why arn't there any statues or busts of him!? :evilangry:

in the middle east

rwe1138

01-28-2009, 06:02 PM

Aarnath

01-28-2009, 06:22 PM

This issue, in my opinion, absolutely rocked. It also helped to take away my severe distaste after reading Final Load Of (insert expletive) #7. Black Adam and his wife reunited, she's pissed off at the world, and poor Felix no longer needs to use the wall urinals in the Men's restrooms. I also liked the debate between the JSA members, especially when it's brought up "Who are WE to judge, anyway, who belongs in the JSA and who doesn't?"

Absolute gold, in my opinion. :biggrin:

jv2k

01-28-2009, 06:33 PM

Oh no.
Tell me DC editorial didn't **** up that badly AGAIN. Please tell me that isn't black countdown mary in the last page.

pariah-1972

01-28-2009, 10:37 PM

I guess it wasn't bad at all.

HaroldAllnut

01-28-2009, 11:20 PM

I loved this issue and am glad, for one, that this Kingdom Come storyline is finally over. It drove me away because it took too much build-up and didn't really do anything for me.

I'm also stoked that Jerry Ordway's providing his awesome pencils to this arc.

Did anyone else notice how Johns was hinting at roster cuts in the upcoming Willingham-Sturges run?

Oh no. Tell me DC editorial didn't **** up that badly AGAIN. Please tell me that isn't black countdown mary in the last page.

Yeah... I was a little confused about that, considering how she and Billy seemed to kiss and make up in Final Crisis #5.

pariah-1972

01-29-2009, 12:12 AM

I was shocked how well Ordway's art seemed very similar to Eaglesham's here.

Hawkman

01-29-2009, 12:32 AM

This was the first JSA issue in a long time that felt like a JSA issue to me. Not that "Thy Kingdom Come" was bad, but it went on for so long, and the cast became so unwieldy during its course that it almost became a title in and of itself. Trimming the cast down right away and jumping headlong into the plot was extremely refreshing.

I'm looking forward to seeing out it all plays out. Isis seems to be behaving strangely, but considering her last words to Adam in 52, it wouldn't exactly be surprising if she simply has become as cold and calculating as she appears. I'll also be interested to see how Hawkman factors into this in the end, as I fully expect to see him reappear given the teaser for this arc from way back when. At least we know he won't die before it's all over, anyway...

rwe1138

01-29-2009, 10:11 AM

Oh no.
Tell me DC editorial didn't **** up that badly AGAIN. Please tell me that isn't black countdown mary in the last page.

Okay, I won't tell you.

K-DoG7p7

01-29-2009, 10:20 AM

Oh no.
Tell me DC editorial didn't **** up that badly AGAIN. Please tell me that isn't black countdown mary in the last page.

This?
http://www.dccomics.com/media/product/1/1/11302_400x600.jpg

Remember.. Post-FC DCU starts in March

jv2k

01-29-2009, 10:51 AM

This?
http://www.dccomics.com/media/product/1/1/11302_400x600.jpg

Remember.. Post-FC DCU starts in March

Damnit. Black Mary was the biggest contradiction between countdown and FC. I can't believe DC let this happen even after fc came out!

K-DoG7p7

01-29-2009, 10:55 AM

Actually this might explain how Black Mary became Deesad-Mary
SINCE IT HAPPENS BEFORE FC!

jv2k

01-29-2009, 11:13 AM

Actually this might explain how Black Mary became Deesad-Mary
SINCE IT HAPPENS BEFORE FC!
I know it happens before but I was hoping that DC just swept countdown under the rug and pretended that it never happened. Black Mary's story was ridiculous. Black Adam's powers don't corrupt people, and the story pretty much ended with "I know I redeemed myself... but I wanna be a bad guy!".

Yes it is a more bearable conclusion if we pretend Dessad was behind it all along(even though he's alive through most of countdown), but countdown should just be ignored.

Enyo

01-29-2009, 11:29 AM

Damnit. Black Mary was the biggest contradiction between countdown and FC. I can't believe DC let this happen even after fc came out!

Black Mary rocks, she gave Kyle his greatest moment ever.

celticguy

01-29-2009, 12:15 PM

Really good issue. Al's back! Woo-hoo!

The passing reference to Obsidian was kind of odd though. I mean, he was a member as of last issue, yes? He fought Gog with everyone else. So why ignore him here?

Obsidian went bad for a while that is all in the past now I think Alan was refering to it as not wanting to repeat mistakes of the past.

pariah-1972

01-29-2009, 12:24 PM

Honestly Obsidian seems more like a guest star who just pops in every now and then for convenience.

Elitehaxxor

01-29-2009, 12:30 PM

Love the story, don't like the art

edit: I guess I just like the Black Adam look of 52 since it was the first time I saw him.

celticguy

01-29-2009, 01:55 PM

Honestly Obsidian seems more like a guest star who just pops in every now and then for convenience.

He is really Jay, Alan, Ted and Stargirl seem to be the headliners other come and go as needed.

HaroldAllnut

01-29-2009, 02:13 PM

Honestly Obsidian seems more like a guest star who just pops in every now and then for convenience.

According to interviews, he's going to be in the first panel of the first page of the first issue of the upcoming Willingham-Sturges run. I've always liked the character, so I'm going to stick with this book for a while, at least long enough to feel it out.

ruppan

01-29-2009, 02:35 PM

I just had one problem with this book. Black Adam overcame Wizard-Billy way too easily. Granted, the status of the Marvel Family is a little vague at this point, but if Billy had the Wizard's powers how could Black Adam hold him down so easily? And, them forcing the lightning down on Billy seemed off.

I know that scene had to end up that way for the plot, it just didn't seem credible.

Other than that, I thought this issue rocked. The reuniting of Isis and Black Adam and then Courtney and Billy were good pay-offs to long brewing storylines. I'm really looking forward to seeing where they go with those couples from here, especially the latter.

FemGeek

01-29-2009, 02:48 PM

I thought the issue was good, but not great. I'm not sure I like how the team has turned out after the Gog issue, but thats probably my personal like/dislike of certain characters. Also, why didnt Power Girl have a say in whos in and out? Isnt she the chairwoman?
Anyway, I liked Adams return, though it all seemed a little too easy or something.

CBikle

01-29-2009, 03:16 PM

I suspect that the other purpose of this story is to return Captain Marvel back to his classic look.

The long, white-haired look just doesn't work on any level.

HaroldAllnut

01-29-2009, 03:49 PM

I suspect that the other purpose of this story is to return Captain Marvel back to his classic look.

Wait a minute... I thought that Freddie Freeman was the new Captain Marvel. Are you saying that they're back-pedalling and going to make Billy Captain Marvel again?

CBikle

01-29-2009, 08:06 PM

Wait a minute... I thought that Freddie Freeman was the new Captain Marvel. Are you saying that they're back-pedalling and going to make Billy Captain Marvel again?

That's my guess. Although Geoff Johns is a traditionalist, he seems ok with changes that work.

The white-haired, white costume Captain Marvel just doesn't work and I think Robinson would be just as happy with Captain Marvel Jr. in his JL title.

Again, this is just speculation on my part.

pariah-1972

01-29-2009, 08:28 PM

According to interviews, he's going to be in the first panel of the first page of the first issue of the upcoming Willingham-Sturges run. I've always liked the character, so I'm going to stick with this book for a while, at least long enough to feel it out.Well i always thought he had a cool visual and a cool costume and cool powers but i don't really know what his personality is like.

I'm hoping Cyclone stays on the team shes a cutie and Stargirl needs someone her age.

HaroldAllnut

01-29-2009, 11:05 PM

Karl O'Neill

01-30-2009, 01:58 AM

That monkey is from the GOG storyline, brought to the JSA by accident when GOG teleported into the JSA HQ.

Karl O'Neill

01-30-2009, 02:01 AM

That monkey is from the GOG storyline, brought to the JSA by accident when GOG teleported into the JSA HQ.

$5 Milkshake

01-30-2009, 11:27 AM

HaroldAllnut

01-30-2009, 12:06 PM

I loved the big cast and wanted to keep everybody, but I was prepared to be fine with losing guys. However, the ONE guy I wanted to stay more than anybody was Amazing Man! :frown: I hope we see more from him and he doesn't slide into obscurity.

Maybe he'll get his own book or mini. After all, it is said that he's thinking of starting his own team down south. That could make for an interesting series/mini.

Karl O'Neill

01-30-2009, 02:19 PM

Read this issue yesterday.

it was pretty awesome.

Have to be honest, Not crazy on ordway's art but it's solid enough to get the action and emotions across the page.

LtMarvel

01-30-2009, 03:24 PM

The wings aren't real, either. Jakeem Thunder had his Thunderbolt make the outfit for Cyclone, who has adopted the monkey (and is a Wizard of Oz fan).

Zero Hunter

01-30-2009, 06:45 PM

1. In the panel where Cyclone and Wildcat II are hanging out in the gym, why the hell is there a winged monkey perched atop a benchpress?

2. Can Tommy switch back and forth from his werecat form, or is he stuck as a werecat all the time?

The monkey is now Cyclones pet, and the wings are not real they are just a costume she dressed him in since she loves the Wizard of OZ so much.

Tommy can change back and forth when he wants to

Jack

01-30-2009, 10:10 PM

There's something kinda creepy about the art depicting Billy as a little kid while the story references his brief relationship with Stargirl.

LtMarvel

01-30-2009, 10:55 PM

Billy's a teenager, and thus Stargirl's peer. Billy is on the short side for his age.

Jack

01-31-2009, 01:17 AM

Billy's a teenager, and thus Stargirl's peer. Billy is on the short side for his age.
Billy was a teenager, or is normally a teenager nowadays, but was most decidedly drawn as a kid in this issue. And arguably this storyline may be working towards a reset of the Marvel Family that could easily have him as a kid again.

mimic_616

01-31-2009, 02:27 AM

This?
http://www.dccomics.com/media/product/1/1/11302_400x600.jpg

Ugh. I hate it when artists have Black Adam wearing the cape. He looks SOOOOOO much better without it.

$5 Milkshake

01-31-2009, 02:58 AM

Ugh. I hate it when artists have Black Adam wearing the cape. He looks SOOOOOO much better without it.

lol I'm ok with the cape, I think the bigger problem is that ugly pic of Mary. She seems to be sporting the classic "Look at my crotch!" pose, made famous by Supergirl.

Alex Smith

01-31-2009, 03:17 AM

Is it just me, or should the "Wizard Marvel" be a hell of a lot more powerful than he was? I would have thought he'd have transcended to some new level of power rather than just essentially be Captain Marvel with white suit and hair. Kind of a bummer to see him go down like such a punk.

pariah-1972

01-31-2009, 03:32 AM

Doc Goblin

01-31-2009, 04:40 AM

I've got to agree with the criticisms in the thread so far.

Where was Power Girl during the meeting? This is worse than Black Canary's so-called chairpersonship over in Justice League. At least McDuffie has been addressing it there and pumping Dinah up into that position. Power Girl has nothing to show for her tenure so far and this is the worst of it. Even Stargirl was there. I guess it's entirely possible there's good reason she wasn't there, but it should've been given somewhere in this issue.

So the big plan to take the Rock of Eternity was "Hey, let's jump Billy"? That was kind of a weak scene. In Trials of Shazam and Reign in Hell, Billy appeared sort of majestic and powerful. Here he just came off as rather lame.

Ordway's art is solid, but pretty lackluster too. It just didn't click with me.

Things weren't all bad though. Despite Power Girl's absence, I did like the meeting scene with everyone arguing their opinions on how to deal with the aftermath of Gog. It's boring when all characters are in perfect agreement.

Al's back! I'm all for that.

So is Black Mary apparently. But hey I'm actually interested in that concept. Maybe Johns can do a better job with it than Countdown and Final Crisis could.

Abraxas

01-31-2009, 05:07 AM

When did he write Deadman?

He wrote the Vertigo Deadman. About two years back.

mimic_616

01-31-2009, 05:53 AM

lol I'm ok with the cape, I think the bigger problem is that ugly pic of Mary. She seems to be sporting the classic "Look at my crotch!" pose, made famous by Supergirl.

See I actually like 'Black Mary' she looks alot more se-- wait a sec, how OLD is Mary Marvel again? :redface:

rwe1138

01-31-2009, 01:40 PM

He wrote the Vertigo Deadman. About two years back.

I believe you're thinking of Bruce Jones, not Matthew Sturges.

paulski

02-01-2009, 07:20 PM

Definitely a fun issue and probably the most I've enjoyed the series since the Annual several months back. It'll be such a shame to see Geoff go.

40footwolf

02-01-2009, 07:24 PM

I reviewed this issue at heroicmonkey.com:

http://heroicmonkey.com/DC_Reviews.html

SlightlyMad

02-02-2009, 07:35 AM

This?
http://www.dccomics.com/media/product/1/1/11302_400x600.jpg

Remember.. Post-FC DCU starts in March

So, does Isis not notice Adam checking out Mary's butt, or is she cool with it?

LtMarvel

02-02-2009, 09:16 AM

Since Isis pwned Captain Marvel in the latest issue, I think Black Adam would know better than to step out of line...

Shellhead

02-02-2009, 09:56 AM

I'm kind of annoyed at the way the Marvel Family power levels fluctuate so wildly when Geoff Johns writes them. Black Adam granted some of his power to Isis in 52, right? But then when he re-absorbs her power later on, he is now powerful enough to take on every hero on Earth. But then Hawkman solos him in that ridiculous fight at the end of Black Reign. And now Black Adam is powerful enough again to manhandle Billy the Wizard. To a certain extent, I can accept some fluctuations in service of a good story, but this is like a busted yo-yo.

LtMarvel

02-02-2009, 10:48 AM

I was thinking Billy spent too much energy trying to figure out what Black Adam was trying to do and why during the fight.

Shellhead

02-02-2009, 11:44 AM

I was thinking Billy spent too much energy trying to figure out what Black Adam was trying to do and why during the fight.

Maybe so, but doesn't Billy now have the ability to strip Black Adam of his powers? Even if he lost the wisdom of Solomon, the very word "wizard" means "wise man."

midnightman2001

02-04-2009, 09:15 AM

As long as Jim Starlin isn't writing it, I'm all for a new Hawkman solo book or a JSA spinoff team with Hawkman at the forefront. But please, no Jim Starlin!

OMG!!! dude, you should be beaten with a pointy stick. JIM STARLIN would be prefect for Hawkman! JUST read his DREADSTAR stuff!

midnightman2001

02-04-2009, 09:18 AM

Ugh. I hate it when artists have Black Adam wearing the cape. He looks SOOOOOO much better without it.

I like the cape. I like this new "bad ass" Mary Marvel. And the pose is great! Nuthing wrong with it. WOOHOO :biggrin:

celticguy

02-04-2009, 09:39 AM

Maybe so, but doesn't Billy now have the ability to strip Black Adam of his powers? Even if he lost the wisdom of Solomon, the very word "wizard" means "wise man."

I don't think so last time all he could do was change his magic word to Chocolate Egg Cream. The Egyptian Gods are the only ones who can take his power away.

doctortherift

02-04-2009, 11:28 AM

OMG!!! dude, you should be beaten with a pointy stick. JIM STARLIN would be prefect for Hawkman! JUST read his DREADSTAR stuff!

Starlin's most recent overpriced cosmic event mini-series all say no. No, he would not be perfect for Hawkman.

midnightman2001

02-04-2009, 05:36 PM

YES He would! READ HIS Hawkman special!

C-Cool

02-05-2009, 04:29 PM

YES He would! READ HIS Hawkman special!

I read the Hawkman Special at my university (conveniently there).

So did the trash container. :evilsmile:

There's some characters Starlin should not write. Hawkman's definitely one of them (editorially mandated or not, even his Hawkman characterization sucked.)

midnightman2001

02-05-2009, 04:53 PM

You people dont know whats good! Jim Starlin on Hawkman = Fantastic!

$5 Milkshake

02-05-2009, 05:01 PM

You people dont know whats good! Jim Starlin on Hawkman = Fantastic!

You know what makes your opinion the right opinion?

Varying sizes and colors in texts. You show 'em!

paulski

02-05-2009, 07:46 PM

I suppose it couldn't be any worse than Walt Simonson's run... :eek:

HaroldAllnut

02-05-2009, 11:33 PM

I'm a tad confused regarding Johns' plans for his final issue (#26), entitled "Black Adam Ruined My Birthday." It's solicited as a stand-alone story... or at least, that's how I interpret the solicit. Is it actually the final installment of Johns' last arc on the title?

You people dont know whats good! Jim Starlin on Hawkman = Fantastic!

No. You just don't know the difference between fact and opinion. Cool off. Please.

paulski

02-06-2009, 06:02 PM

I'm a tad confused regarding Johns' plans for his final issue (#26), entitled "Black Adam Ruined My Birthday." It's solicited as a stand-alone story... or at least, that's how I interpret the solicit. Is it actually the final installment of Johns' last arc on the title?

I haven't heard for sure, but that's the distinct impression I get. Plus the replacement writers have been named for some time so it can't be too far off.