Black Canary & The Conintuing Failure To Develop Female Superheroes

[WorstThingUS]

While looking at the abysmal Green Arrow/Black Canary where C-list villain, Merlyn, almost not only almost defeats both Green Arrow and Black Canary (when basically Canary alone should have put his d*%k in the dirt, you know, like she did last time when she broke his wrists) but she takes an arrow in the arm, I wondered just what is up with the inability to develop a good female superhero. No, I'm not going to go on about Manhunter because she's had her chance but ultimately remained that book everyone talked about be good, but no one was actually buying (I personally lost interest when her basic premise of killing bad guys was almost immediately abandoned). And Catwoman isn't a superhero. No, I'm talking about it being so bad they can't even develop books for characters with 60-70 years of history and all sorts of interesting backgrounds.

Take Black Canary: she's a Batman level butt-kicker with a superpower. The book should be called Black Canary/Green Arrow and his job should be to hold her coat. In fact, given the heat her character had coming off Birds of Prey, she should have gotten her own book and not that disappointing mini-series which, ironically while showing her prowess, also served to destroy a great premise and backtracked her character to marry her off to Green Arrow. She's a second generation superhero, a member of both the JSA and JLA and was given a daughter who was for all intents and purposes going to eventually succeed her and become the third Black Canary (given that Shiva once tried to apprentice BC, you just know this would have led to her becoming a deadly "aunt" for the girl as well). The entire DCU was open to her character to play with...all thrown away so she could be part of Green Arrow's universe which is already populated with his own three kids and a grandchild. Anytime she's around him, the writers (usually male) make her useless and a tool to show something about GA.

Supergirl: it's to DC's eternal shame that in four years they couldn't get a series about a teenage girl with Superman's powers going. This should have written itself, but instead was lost to the very ill-conceived notion that could only come from the mind of a middle-aged man, that she should be a "bad girl." Yeah, that's why Lindsay Lohan is worth a billion dollars and Miley Cyrus can barely get insured to work. Oh, wait... It seems to be on its way now, but Supergirl Adventures in the 8th Grade accomplished it in just one issue.

Wonder Woman: This is a class in "How Not To Do A Relaunch." #1: Don't Star-F*&K. Letting Jodi Picoult and Allan Heinberg anywhere near comics was a horrible mistake, though I'm sure it sounds good when reporting to your corporate overlords or convincing your friends outside of comics you work in a legitimate artistic medium. #2: Don't rush back to the status quo. The relaunch was part of the horrific One Year Later idea which left Donna Troy as Wonder Woman. This should have been the first year of the book, seeing a more traditional superhero, because part of Wonder Woman's problem has always been her status quo as some sort of world-changing ambassador. Sorry, but that's a lame premise for a superhero. With Diana still around as a DEO agent to be a mentor, there was so much possibility in this set-up and it was gone by the end of the first issue (though I still hope for maybe a mini about Donna's year as WW). This book didn't get started until #14 when Gail Simone took over, costing it valuable "jump on" momentum but even it continues to struggle with WW's second biggest problem: a hero is only as good or as interesting as his or her villains. And in a year even Gail Simone has failed to give WW that opposite number she has always lacked.

Granted, bad development plagues all superheroes, not just female ones, but given the new Blue Beetle has a book and The Atom was even given a try, it makes no sense that someone like Black Canary was only given a mini whose purpose to de-value her as a lead. And you know it's based on "Well, the other chick book failed" while this criteria is never applied to male books. I mean I love Chuck Dixon and martial arts, but what was justification for giving Richard Dragon a series? Shouldn't the success of Birds of Prey pretty much have opened the door for her and The Huntress to be given ongoing series? And I'm not even going to ask where that Power Girl book is.

What do you think is the problem, or does it not extend beyond simple sexism?

[AugustEngine]

Let's say unintentional sexism. Comics are written mostly by men with an overwhelmingly male audience. So while no one is sitting around thinking "Let's ruin a bitch." , they can only have so much perspective.

[celticguy]

BOP was a canary book for the majority of it's early run in all except the title. Gordon was a support character for most of the Arcs.

I don't think sexism prevents them from getting their own books just sales figures. Occasionaly bigger picture marketing causes books to go away for a while like BOP, Robin and Nightwing for now.

I expect BOP to make comback at some point.

I think you are putting down GA abilities, he is not on BC level as a fighter but he is better now than ever and he brings other things to the table. I think they make a great partnership.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Last I checked Lohan pulls more money than Cyrus does and has to do far less to get it. Might have something to do with the fact that shes been doing what she does (acttress) since she was like 7 or something while Cyrus was just another cog in the music industries ever turning wheels of producing pop candy for teeny boppers. I mean the way you make it sound no hollywood celeb who can be considered a good person let alone role model has ever did anything even slightly contraversal. Hey wants Drew Berrymore more a crack head at 14 and up? Seems like shes pretty mellowed out now though, people aren't cracking her **** open and putting her down..

Now how does this relate to comic books anyway? I mean not everyone conforms to being a mindless robot, and just because Supergirl wears that symbol, doesn't make her Superman. She has more right to that symbol than he does considering it was her families symbol before it was his, and she wore it long before he did. She shouldn't have to live up to the Earth's preceived notions of what it means since it was her families before it becames Supermans symbol of what he stands for. In this Power Girl was wrong and had no right to pass judgement on Kara, for that I disliked Power Girl while still being a fan of hers over all.

Your trope about DC failing female Superheroes is falling on deaf ears my friend considering amongest all the comic companies DC still has the number one most recognizable Female Superhero of all time and im sure there are quiet a few other DC females that more people will recognize than you let on, most of which have their own preceived notions of said characters and not that of a person who obviously read way to much into them such as yourself.

I'm willing to bet to the general public who recognizes Kara your idea of a Bad Girl is not the first one that comes to mind. In all 4 years she has not always been betrayed as that alone, heck not even in her first appearance was she portrayed as that. In fact I own every single issue of Supergirl up until Kelly left it and a few from afterwards, and the mini in which she was introduced only in the issues were Darkseids Dark Kara appeared was there ever a case for Kara the Bad Girl.... it was more like Kara the Bad One.

There was been more examples of Kara the voice of reason than there has been Kara the voice of immaturity. By the way what is considered immature of a 16 year old? Save pooping her own panties I don't think their is anyone definiting truth since everyone is different.

If I wanted to read stories about Superman as a teenager, I'd watch smallville or read those old Superboy stories. If I wanted to know what Superman was like if he was a girl I'd read Wonder Woman or some such book or push DC to make an on going Superman Else Words book featuring Superwoman.

You seem to be under the impression that DC was under pressure to bring back what the Fans wanted in Supergirl when they reintroduced her to the DCU. Wrong! Read the Superman Batman trade when she first appeared. In his own words it was Dan Dido that wanted to bring Supergirl back, mostly because he didn't like how the last incarnation of the character made her sound like some kind of bad science fiction/religious cult love child of Frank Herbert.

So by all means go on bemoaning what you don't like, just remember you're powerless to do anything about it, there are greater forces at work here, whether we like them or not. :tongue:

[K-DoG7p7]

While looking at the abysmal Green Lantern/Black Canary where C-list villain, Merlyn,

OMGF!! there is a Green Lantern/Black Canary series too??
is it better then Green Arrow/Black Canary?


Also.. Merlyn is B-list..
he used to lead the League of assassins and is one of Ra's top men..
he has even "defeated" Batman a few times..

[K-DoG7p7]

Take Black Canary: she's a Batman level butt-kicker with a superpower. The book should be called Black Canary/Green Arrow and his job should be to hold her coat.

yes.. because THAT! would SOOOOO boost sales..

Fun Fact: no Black Canary mini (and there has been several) has ever sold "well" yet Green Arrow was for a while DC's top seller and has had a consistent good sales numbers since the mid 80's (Dixons Green arrow was not canceled due to sales.. )

[WorstThingUS]

Last I checked Lohan pulls more money than Cyrus does and has to do far less to get it.

Then you might want to recheck your sources, because right now Miley Cyrus is literally worth a billion dollars to Disney (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24293946/) and Lindsay Lohan could barely get insured to work on a film and her run on Ugly Betty was cut short.



Now how does this relate to comic books anyway? I mean not everyone conforms to being a mindless robot, and just because Supergirl wears that symbol, doesn't make her Superman. She has more right to that symbol than he does considering it was her families symbol before it was his, and she wore it long before he did. She shouldn't have to live up to the Earth's preceived notions of what it means since it was her families before it becames Supermans symbol of what he stands for.

Oh, geez. You and this insane Supergirl crap again. Dude, it's over. Let it go.

Your trope about DC failing female Superheroes is falling on deaf ears my friend considering amongest all the comic companies DC still has the number one most recognizable Female Superhero of all time and im sure there are quiet a few other DC females that more people will recognize than you let on, most of which have their own preceived notions of said characters and not that of a person who obviously read way to much into them such as yourself.

Um, my point was that DC has decades old female superheroes. But you miss the point because you're on about this Supergirl crap again. No one's talking about that because no one cares. It. Is. Over. Remember kids: "fan" is short for "fanatic."

[WorstThingUS]

OMGF!! there is a Green Lantern/Black Canary series too??
is it better then Green Arrow/Black Canary?

You can tell who has no real point to make when they attack mistakes. And just for that I corrected it. So there!

Also.. Merlyn is B-list..
he used to lead the League of assassins and is one of Ra's top men..
he has even "defeated" Batman a few times..

You're being kind. No one has utilized him as a legitimate threat in years. Hell, in the 70's Black Lightning as a rookie defeated him single handedly. He's basically one of those villains who's no threat to anyone with a superpower.

yes.. because THAT! would SOOOOO boost sales..

Fun Fact: no Black Canary mini (and there has been several) has ever sold "well" yet Green Arrow was for a while DC's top seller and has had a consistent good sales numbers since the mid 80's (Dixons Green arrow was not canceled due to sales.. )

I'm a fan of BC and I hated that series, so I'm not surprised. It was awful. And my point was, that despite her history, despite having been part of a successful book that dramatically "bumped" her up, she wasn't given the chance to make the most of that while Blue Beetle, The Atom and Richard Dragon all were on basis of what exactly? Also that to make GA look good, she constantly has to be a victim of some sort from an arrow to the arm to a sword in the mouth to being raped into sterility and retirement.

[Thok]

Fun Fact: no Black Canary mini (and there has been several) has ever sold "well" yet Green Arrow was for a while DC's top seller and has had a consistent good sales numbers since the mid 80's (Dixons Green arrow was not canceled due to sales.. )

Green Arrow is generally at the same sales level as Birds of Prey. The only exception is the Kevin Smith relaunch that brought Ollie back to life. You'll notice the words "Kevin Smith" (you may have heard of a movie he did called Clerks), and "brought back to life" which explains most of the sales jump.

[K-DoG7p7]

Green Arrow is generally at the same sales level as Birds of Prey. The only exception is the Kevin Smith relaunch that brought Ollie back to life. You'll notice the words "Kevin Smith" (you may have heard of a movie he did called Clerks), and "brought back to life" which explains most of the sales jump.

No that is during Winick.. and No.. Green Arrow sold about 3000 more then BOP, during Winicks run
Sales where higher Pre-Smith and Post-Smith/Pre-Winick

[K-DoG7p7]

I'm a fan of BC and I hated that series, so I'm not surprised. It was awful. And my point was, that despite her history, despite having been part of a successful book that dramatically "bumped" her up, she wasn't given the chance to make the most of that while Blue Beetle, The Atom and Richard Dragon all were on basis of what exactly? Also that to make GA look good, she constantly has to be a victim of some sort from an arrow to the arm to a sword in the mouth to being raped into sterility and retirement.
Never raped..

retirement? you mean what Gail did when she wrote her out of BOP?

[Shellhead]

I'm not clear on the current DC continuity regarding Wonder Woman... is Diana Prince now younger than Donna Troy?

[WorstThingUS]

Never raped..

That's right. Mike Grell insists she was never raped. Something was just done to her that required her to be naked from the waist down that made her sterile. But it wasn't rape.

retirement? you mean what Gail did when she wrote her out of BOP?

No. As a result of her abduction and "non-rape" that left her sterile, Dinah briefly retired to run her plant store.

I'm not clear on the current DC continuity regarding Wonder Woman... is Diana Prince now younger than Donna Troy?

No. Sorry if something I said gave that impression, though I'm not sure what.

[K-DoG7p7]

No. As a result of her abduction and "non-rape" that left her sterile, Dinah briefly retired to run her plant store.

Yes.. for all of three issues!!

[celticguy]

Yes.. for all of three issues!!

well it is not like she built up a big nest egg doing superhero work. Girl needs to earn.


Ok seriously Males books make more money it just is. DC does a good job (well until about 4 months ago) of using non whilte male characters but they need to make money to last.

[Thok]

No that is during Winick.. and No.. Green Arrow sold about 3000 more then BOP, during Winicks run
Sales where higher Pre-Smith and Post-Smith/Pre-Winick

35000 versus 30000 sales is small enough to be at the same sales level. I'll give you that there was a small period of time Post-Smith when sales were higher (this appears to be due to Brad Meltzer for issues 16-21 and a crossover with Green Lantern for issues 22-25, sales in Winick's run proceed to drop down a bunch once that leaves.)

Immediately Pre-Smith, Birds of Prey was certainly higher, but that's because there was no Green Arrow ongoing for a couple years. The Connor Hawke stuff before that was at a traditional Green Arrow level.

[K-DoG7p7]

35000 versus 30000 sales is small enough to be at the same sales level. I'll give you that there was a small period of time Post-Smith when sales were higher (this appears to be due to Brad Meltzer for issues 16-21 and a crossover with Green Lantern for issues 22-25, sales in Winick's run proceed to drop down a bunch once that leaves.)

Immediately Pre-Smith, Birds of Prey was certainly higher, but that's because there was no Green Arrow ongoing for a couple years. The Connor Hawke stuff before that was at a traditional Green Arrow level.

and traditional Green Arrow level was relatively high..

[Thok]

and traditional Green Arrow level was relatively high..

Traditionally Green Arrow is 35,000-30,000. That's never been high.

[WorstThingUS]

Yes.. for all of three issues!!

Hence the use of the word "briefly."

[K-DoG7p7]

Hence the use of the word "briefly."

you do know that they both moved to Seattle to retire?

[WorstThingUS]

you do know that they both moved to Seattle to retire?

Yeah, 'cause he "felt bad" about something that actually happened to her.



Ok seriously Males books make more money it just is. DC does a good job (well until about 4 months ago) of using non whilte male characters but they need to make money to last.

Well, that males will sell more is a given, but it's not impossible to have a decent selling female hero, so why even with established, well-known characters is it so difficult? Or is the reality, you have to double them up like Birds of Prey to even have a chance?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Sorry to derail this topic but...


I can't wait until PG and Zatanna come out!

Hopefully they will break the cycle.

[WorstThingUS]

Sorry to derail this topic but...

I can't wait until PG and Zatanna come out!

Hopefully they will break the cycle.

You're not derailing it. Do we know if Zatanna's series is a mini or on-going? I'm no Power Girl fan, but I think hers is on-going.

[K-DoG7p7]

Yeah, 'cause he "felt bad" about something that actually happened to her.


nooo... that happened after words.. when they both realized they just could not hang up the "capes"..

[celticguy]

You can tell who has no real point to make when they attack mistakes. And just for that I corrected it. So there!



You're being kind. No one has utilized him as a legitimate threat in years. Hell, in the 70's Black Lightning as a rookie defeated him single handedly. He's basically one of those villains who's no threat to anyone with a superpower.



.

He and Deathstroke have been The major foe of the Arrow family the past few years. I realize you need to be an Superman, Batman or at least a Flash or GL foe to be A list but being one of a 2nd tier hero's villans should get you to the B list.

GA and BC have no superpowers ( the cry is not enough of a factor) so he is perfect foil for them.

[WorstThingUS]

He and Deathstroke have been The major foe of the Arrow family the past few years. I realize you need to be an Superman, Batman or at least a Flash or GL foe to be A list but being one of a 2nd tier hero's villans should get you to the B list.

GA and BC have no superpowers ( the cry is not enough of a factor) so he is perfect foil for them.

The cry is a super-power even if you look down on it and given it gives her range, so Merlyn should never be a problem for her, ever. And am I the only person to think that given she's spent at least a decade with Ollie, no one with a bow and arrow should ever be a threat to her either? I mean, don't they train together? Robin can catch an arrow, but she gets nailed? And I'll say it again: rookie Black Lightning kicked his ass. He needs a revamp to be taken seriously. Kind of like a dark mirror to what Ollie did during One Year Later.

[celticguy]

Yeah, 'cause he "felt bad" about something that actually happened to her.



Well, that males will sell more is a given, but it's not impossible to have a decent selling female hero, so why even with established, well-known characters is it so difficult? Or is the reality, you have to double them up like Birds of Prey to even have a chance?


they did not really move to seattle to retire. He retired the trick arrows but he still went out busting street crime.

It is not impossible but other than Wonder woman most female characters do not seem to last more than a few years at a time. That what was so great about BoP it was showcase for characters that otherwise would not get their own book.

DC has had monthlies of Catwoman, Manhunter, BoP, Wonder Woman, Batgirl and I feel Iam forgeting someone all run over the past few years to various levels of success.

I think BoP would go one if not for the Batman nonsense, but the others except WW have not broken out for the long term (in my mind more than a decade). I think the fault lies with the consumer and not the publisher.

Marvel has not done much on this front either.

[FemGeek]

I find it very dissapointing that the ladies can't hold a book. I asked a non-comicy friend of mine what he though and he replied 'uh, coz theyre chicks?', which sadley is probably true. Most male writers seem to shove female superheroes into girlfriend/chearleader/doormat/plot device roles, which angers me. Alot of my favourite comics had female leads (had) but for various reasons are through. Manhunter, for sales reasons was recentley given its send off, BOP is getting cancelled (something to do with Batman RIP?), Batgirl was cancelled (still not sure why, sales were quite good), Peter Davids Supergirl run was fantastic but pushed aside to make room for bratty Supergirl, and I've been hearing aweful stuff about the GA/BC title. Canary was brought to a new level of awesome under Gail Simone, but has fallen back down to the girlfriend/damsel role. Lame. Highly lame.
I do have high hopes for the upcoming Powergirl series though. Bring it on!

[cheshire42]

Is it just me, or does Alex Ross draw/paint Dinah as looking a little... mannish? :biggrin:

Seriously. I saw the cover for an upcoming JSA issue (#26?) done by Ross... the one with the whole group posing and paintings of past members in the background? And Dinah's portrait... well, 'not flattering' is one way of describing it. 'Looking like a picture of Fabio in drag' is another way. Past interpretations haven't been much better; she usually looks (at best) harsh and sharp-featured and a bit shrewish. It's disturbing. Canary is called the 'Blonde Bombshell' because she's gorgeous, right?

I like the way Ross presents most of the DC heroes, but his Canary has bugged me for some time.

[pitbull in a skirt]

Is it just me, or does Alex Ross draw/paint Dinah as looking a little... mannish? :biggrin:

Seriously. I saw the cover for an upcoming JSA issue (#26?) done by Ross... the one with the whole group posing and paintings of past members in the background? And Dinah's portrait... well, 'not flattering' is one way of describing it. 'Looking like a picture of Fabio in drag' is another way. Past interpretations haven't been much better; she usually looks (at best) harsh and sharp-featured and a bit shrewish. It's disturbing. Canary is called the 'Blonde Bombshell' because she's gorgeous, right?

I like the way Ross presents most of the DC heroes, but his Canary has bugged me for some time.

Alex Ross always makes women look a little mannish :biggrin:

[princesa]

BOP was a canary book for the majority of it's early run in all except the title. Gordon was a support character for most of the Arcs.

I don't think sexism prevents them from getting their own books just sales figures. Occasionaly bigger picture marketing causes books to go away for a while like BOP, Robin and Nightwing for now.

I expect BOP to make comback at some point.

I think you are putting down GA abilities, he is not on BC level as a fighter but he is better now than ever and he brings other things to the table. I think they make a great partnership.

BOP was never the same without Dinah and I still contend that she and Vixen should have been in that book rather than JLA. A BOP with Dinah, Vixen, Huntress, Lady Shiva and of course Barbara would have been my choice.

[d newton]

*La La La* Can't hear you. *La La La*

[Dimoutzi]

Comics are written mostly by men with an overwhelmingly male audience.
Gaiman's Sandman proves there is a female audience, it's just hard to reach :wink:

A good solid story, strong villains and artwork that doesn't focus on just TnA should be a good start. But sofar most female heroes are stereotypes by male writers, artwork of 16 year old girls with DD cup or female heroes that can barely take out a D-list villain.

[celticguy]

The cry is a super-power even if you look down on it and given it gives her range, so Merlyn should never be a problem for her, ever. And am I the only person to think that given she's spent at least a decade with Ollie, no one with a bow and arrow should ever be a threat to her either? I mean, don't they train together? Robin can catch an arrow, but she gets nailed? And I'll say it again: rookie Black Lightning kicked his ass. He needs a revamp to be taken seriously. Kind of like a dark mirror to what Ollie did during One Year Later.

I agree it is a power but it does not take her out of the street level hero status.

You jare just hung up Merlyn and it will be a problem for you for a while since he is taking the primary villian status in this book.

He is a top tier killer in Ra's league so he sould be taken seriously by a street hero.

[WorstThingUS]

I agree it is a power but it does not take her out of the street level hero status.

You jare just hung up Merlyn and it will be a problem for you for a while since he is taking the primary villian status in this book.

I don't buy this book, so no, it will not. I just glanced it. I won't make that mistake again.

He is a top tier killer in Ra's league so he sould be taken seriously by a street hero.

...who was beaten by a rookie Black Lightning and had his wrists broken by Black Canary---in the same story that made it clear he was afraid to take GA and BC on directly. He is nowhere near Ra's league. Ra's is as A-list as it gets. Being a member of the League of Assassins that works for him doesn't automatically convey that A-list status you. By that logic The O-Sensei is A-list and he's not. David Cain is A-list and he's not. Onyx and Bronze Tiger were LOA members and they never were either. The only A-list LOA member is Shiva and he's nowhere near her level. You're all being kind to even let him have B-list status. Like I said, he needs revamp to be taken seriously.

[carabas]

Being a member of the League of Assassins that works for him doesn't automatically convey that A-list status you.Eh, given that the League Of Assassins is part of Ra's's empire, all members are in Ra's's very own, personal League. Literally if not figuratively.

[Vic Vega]

Some points: I'd of thought you could have gotten a great "Lone Wolf and Cub" book out of the premise of Black Canary having a 9 year old human buzzsaw for a foster daughter.

I'm probably alone on this one but D.C. would have been better served letting Donna Troy serve as Wonder Woman for the duration. She doesn't have the stick in @$$ that Diana has and she has a credible secret I.D. to boot. The D.C. editors have been trying to huminize Diana with varing degrees of sucess since the 90's(remember her stint as a fast food worker?). Donna Troy is the girl next door.

I'm still amazed that D.C. hasn't given Power Girl her own series. She's a tougher Ally McBeal with Superpowers. Darn thing writes itself. Especially if her "day job" is running the JSA with its 18+ members. Peeg having to deal with all those Hawkman-related personal injury lawsuits could be really funny if handled right. :D

[celticguy]

Eh, given that the League Of Assassins is part of Ra's's empire, all members are in Ra's's very own, personal League. Literally if not figuratively.


Ok but do GA/BC rate an A list bad guy.

They are 2nd tier heros they don't getto fight Lex Luthor or the Joker. Over the past few years they have deloped Merlyn and Deathstroke into their big foes. I would like to see them use Talia as she and BC had a small flare up in BOP and it would be good if some of the bad guys were focused on BC not just all from the GA gallery.

[WorstThingUS]

I'm probably alone on this one but D.C. would have been better served letting Donna Troy serve as Wonder Woman for the duration. She doesn't have the stick in @$$ that Diana has and she has a credible secret I.D. to boot. The D.C. editors have been trying to huminize Diana with varing degrees of sucess since the 90's(remember her stint as a fast food worker?). Donna Troy is the girl next door.

Well, you're not alone, because I said the same, but I don't think permanently would have worked.

I'm still amazed that D.C. hasn't given Power Girl her own series.

They've been saying it's coming for about a year now.

Ok but do GA/BC rate an A list bad guy.

You have to be A-list first and while I love BC she isn't any more than GA.

They are 2nd tier heros they don't getto fight Lex Luthor or the Joker. Over the past few years they have deloped Merlyn and Deathstroke into their big foes. I would like to see them use Talia as she and BC had a small flare up in BOP and it would be good if some of the bad guys were focused on BC not just all from the GA gallery.

That's kinda what I mean about so much being tossed out to make BC "a wife." She'd become the mother of a girl meant to be the next Shiva who was probably now going to be the next BC. This totally ties her to the League of Assassins who weren't just going to give up on their next major killer. And Talia is now at war with Ra's so she'd want the girl herself. Not to mention Shiva wouldn't be able to resist trying to keep the child a killer or turn BC into one. Then you've got ties to BOP, GA, JLA, JSA. For someone like Dixon or Waid or Simone who sees continuity as big toy box to play in, it could have been a nice book. A book I would buy, but I'm not going to buy her on the back end of Green Arrow, because every writer diminishes her to make GA look good. It would be like a Batman/Wonder Woman book where he always saves the day.

[celticguy]

that has not been the case over the first few arcs the first she save him, then they save Conor and now they have been pretty mundane bad guy of the month stories.

I agree is she is always in distress it will get old quick that has not been the case forthe first year and a half is all I am saying.

[americocaine]

She isn't solo in that book and is leading the JLA right now. They'll probably just rename the book to just Green Arrow after awhile. I'm not sure what the premise was from the person who originally pitched the book was but it seems to cater to a pre-teen audience with all the cartoony artwork rather than something as mature as "Longbow Hunters".

[Bombshell]

What DC tends to forget when it comes to Black Canary is that, as a character, she has a history that goes far beyond her relationship with Green Arrow. Green Arrow is not her end all and be all, and yet that's exactly what the higher ups at DC seem to think of her.

[Constantine Drakon]

I'd say that one of the major problems with Canary faring so badly against Merlyn is that he is in no way presented as someone that should be a threat to her.

In the past he's been written as having extremely dangerous "trick arrows" that make him a threat even to individuals with superpowers.

In his fight with Canary he gets surprised by the heroes, is outnumbered, but manages to take out Canary using nothing except ordinary everyday "pointy tipped" arrows.

You might be able to write a story where the Anti-Green Arrow of the League of Assassins is a legit threat to Black Canary.

This wasn't it. Not by a longshot. This was an insult to Canary. And to Green Arrow. And to Merlyn.

[AugustEngine]

Gaiman's Sandman proves there is a female audience, it's just hard to reach :wink:




I wasn't saying that there isn't a female audience for comics. I'm saying that males make up the majority of the fandom.

Also, the ladies aren't hard to reach. Sandman, like most anime, proves that chicks dig anything with a "dark" male lead.

[Apathetic-piggy]

I wasn't saying that there isn't a female audience for comics. I'm saying that males make up the majority of the fandom.

Also, the ladies aren't hard to reach. Sandman, like most anime, proves that chicks dig anything with a "dark" male lead.

I don't think it's specific to anime.