Justice League of America #29-- Discussion and Review Thread (spoilers)

[HaroldAllnut]

IMHO, this may have been the worst comic I've read this month. Horribly tedious. Here comes the plot:

Starbreaker, the cosmic vampire, details for us (or an unseen listener) his first two encounters with the JLA. First, they saved Rann from an army of his giant robots.

Later, through the power of teamwork and incredibly expository, poor dialogue, they saved Earth from being pushed off its orbit into the sun, ultimately k.o.'ing him and handing him over to the Guardians.

They then tossed him into a shadow dimension where he (and we) met the aforementioned unseen listener: Shadow Thief. Starbreaker somehow convinced Shadow Thief to work for him, and they seem to have escaped said punitive realm and, according to a "next issue" blurb on the last page:

"Dr. Light (Kimiyo Hoshi) returns and Shadow Thief attempts to "sacrifice" the Earth as a gift to Starbreaker!"

Chriscross' art was nice and just the right amount of cartoony; however, the writing of this issue was quite poor. I know Len Wein has done a lot for the comic book industry and I don't mean to insult him, but reading this issue felt like a chore. The dialogue couldn't have been more forced and the sheer abundance of poorly-written, cheesy captions didn't capture the Silver Age vibe this issue was so desperately grasping at-- it spoofed it.

I can't wait for McDuffie to come back.

My harsh criticism aside, I am intensely interested in the development of this arc as a whole. After all, this issue just explained (sort of) who, what, and why the bad guys are involved; however, we still have to find out what the Shadow Cabinet wants with the mortal remains of the first (and thankfully deceased) Doctor Light.

What did y'all think?

[The Black Guardian]

I find myself pretty much agreeing completely with you. If I have any interest in this arc, it's in spite of this issue.

[Hawkman]

Ridiculous that this series continues to get interrupted by editorial nonsense almost every time McDuffie begins to hit his stride. I realize Dwayne has other projects to devote time to, but with the "Faces of Evil" stamp on the cover, I have a hard time seeing this as anything other than editorial stepping in and forcing this on him. I was so looking forward to this issue after last month's conclusion, too, and to get this instead... I was left practically speechless when I realized the entire issue was going to be a flashback. There was absolutely no indication this was coming from the solicit, either; never mind the summary, neither Wein nor Chriscross were even credited. Honestly, I almost feel like I was duped, but since it's in my box each month anyway I can't quite make that claim.

I anxiously await #30 with the same level of anticipation I once had for #29, but if DC does this again in the near future, I will seriously consider dropping the title. And if it is simply the result of a pressed-for-time McDuffie, I think I'd rather the title ship a bit late each month--ala Justice Society--than continue to pay for sub-par fill-in issues like this one.

As for the issue itself: Like I said, sub-par. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either, and the fact that it wasn't at all what I was expecting to see didn't exactly affect my view in a positive way.

[Xero]

I'll have to be the dissenting opinion here I guess, I thought Len Wein did an excellent job. I missed old school writing and Len has kept up on his continuity, I missed people cheering on their heroes, so I loved this one. And Chriscross needs to become the regular artist on this book.

[Doc Goblin]

What a disappointment to flip through this and see a weak fill-in instead of what I was expecting. I guess DC feels it can get away with fill-ins like these in its strongest selling title. But still... such a disappointment. And this lame villain is going to be involved in future issues? Well that sure did kill any excitement I might have had.

[BeastieRunner]

. . . and dropped. :frown:

[HaroldAllnut]

And this lame villain is going to be involved in future issues? Well that sure did kill any excitement I might have had.

I'm actually really intrigued by Starbreaker and Shadow Thief, but the writing was just way tedious.

I wouldn't have minded the crowds cheering on their heroes if it were used more sparingly. There was too much of it in the issue. I'd rather focus on what the Flash is saying than some fella in the background cheering him on. I know Wein was trying to embody a Silver Age feel, but it felt way too forced.

I'm sticking with this title and hoping that the editors stop stepping on McDuffie's toes. The man can tell a story; just let him do it!

[robbieglenn]

dropped too. JLA just doesnt really appeal to me now. Ive switched it for Green Lantern Corp, most definitly a wise move.

[jv2k]

People are actually dropping the book over a filler tittle? This issue was barely even related to Mcduffie's arc.

Anyway I found it a chore to read too. I don't know what else to say. The story was full of corny silverage moments, and it was just boring. Yea we got Green Lantern and superman moving the earth, but besides that big feat the story didn't just didn't do it for me. It doesn't help that this issue is right in the middle of a story arc and doesn't add anything to it.

[CBikle]

People are actually dropping the book over a filler tittle?


DC has to knock it the F*** off with these mediocre filler issues; save the crap for their annuals like they used to do.

I liked Len Wein's work in the past and I was really hoping that he'd knock it out of the park; he wasn't helping himself by bringing back Starbreaker, a really stupid Dracula-Galactus hybrid that might've worked in the 50's or 60's.

I'm wondering if DC bought this story years ago and just decided to tweak it to fit in with the whole Faces Of Evil thing.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

I don't think I was able to read more than 6 pages before I just put the comic aside......It was that bad.

[Joe Franklin]

And Chriscross needs to become the regular artist on this book.

I agree with this. He is awesome.:cool:

[yoda510]

Wait, didn't 28 end with Hawkman popping out and being a big cliffhanger? WTH?

[Raker616]

I personally loved this issue, it was classic SL JLA and Len Wein was the perfect guy to write it the art was the only drawback of the issue. To me compared to the mediocraty of Bran and Dwayne's JLA, this was a 5 star issue there is nothing interesting or exciting about the current volume of this comic. Give me great heroes going up against ultra powerful villans and a good artist and i'm sold on JLA (like in this issue), give me boring and repetetive stories with uninteresting characters and i'll pass everytime out (like the current volume of JLA).

[Sean Walsh]

Ridiculous that this series continues to get interrupted by editorial nonsense almost every time McDuffie begins to hit his stride. I realize Dwayne has other projects to devote time to, but with the "Faces of Evil" stamp on the cover, I have a hard time seeing this as anything other than editorial stepping in and forcing this on him. I was so looking forward to this issue after last month's conclusion, too, and to get this instead... I was left practically speechless when I realized the entire issue was going to be a flashback. There was absolutely no indication this was coming from the solicit, either; never mind the summary, neither Wein nor Chriscross were even credited. Honestly, I almost feel like I was duped, but since it's in my box each month anyway I can't quite make that claim.

Starbreaker was and is set to be a big part of this new McDuffie arc. I guess DC just decided to use FACES OF EVIL to focus on reintroducing Starbreaker (an old JLA foe, and a rarely used one) for the upcoming arc.

And it fits the intent of FOE: it doesn't necessarily detract from the story (it's setting up the next one) and it's a full focus on a character who is/will be part of the book.

[HaroldAllnut]

Wait, didn't 28 end with Hawkman popping out and being a big cliffhanger? WTH?

Yeah. Hawkman came to the JLA asking for help against Shadow Thief; in this issue, we learn who Shadow Thief is working for: Starbreaker. We also learn briefly how they came to know each other.

Starbreaker was and is set to be a big part of this new McDuffie arc. I guess DC just decided to use FACES OF EVIL to focus on reintroducing Starbreaker (an old JLA foe, and a rarely used one) for the upcoming arc.

And it fits the intent of FOE: it doesn't necessarily detract from the story (it's setting up the next one) and it's a full focus on a character who is/will be part of the book.

It's not the spirit of this issue that I am so bothered by; it's the letter. The execution of this book left a good deal wanting. Its heart was in the right place, but not much else was. Even Chriscross' pencils looked a little less than fresh, to me at least.

[Hawkman]

Starbreaker was and is set to be a big part of this new McDuffie arc. I guess DC just decided to use FACES OF EVIL to focus on reintroducing Starbreaker (an old JLA foe, and a rarely used one) for the upcoming arc.

And it fits the intent of FOE: it doesn't necessarily detract from the story (it's setting up the next one) and it's a full focus on a character who is/will be part of the book.
Which is why I think forcing this FOE thing on so many books for no apparent reason other than line-wide congruity is ridiculous. Starbreaker could have been reintroduced to a new audience in two pages worth of exposition, easily. Instead, FOE completely interrupted the flow of this arc by retelling a SA story in a bland, if not downright campy fashion. Perhaps I'd be a bit more forgiving if the issue was actually entertaining, but it wasn't, at least not to me.

[Suzanne]

I haven't read #29 yet, but why the hell would McDuffie's Milestone arc be interrupted like this?!? This is the kind of editorial weirdness that plagues this book. Let Dwayne do his thing for Chrissakes!

[dupersuper]

I haven't seen Starbreaker anywhere since his appearance in Jurgens League in '92 or so. I like a JL villain that blows up planets/stars/solar systems...seems worthy of the League.

[Zero Hunter]

This was just a horrible issue. Anything that has Superman towing the planet automatically falls into the to stupid to be belived catagory. And what the hell happened to Crisscross? My god his art was so bad here I didn't even realize it was him. Compare this stuff to his Captain Marvel run over at Marvel and it isn't even close. If this is his new style then someone needs to tell him that he needs to go bakc to his old style right away.

[HaroldAllnut]

I haven't read #29 yet, but why the hell would McDuffie's Milestone arc be interrupted like this?!? This is the kind of editorial weirdness that plagues this book. Let Dwayne do his thing for Chrissakes!

If you haven't guessed already, I'd like to dispense some advice: don't bother spending your money on this issue.

I haven't seen Starbreaker anywhere since his appearance in Jurgens League in '92 or so. I like a JL villain that blows up planets/stars/solar systems...seems worthy of the League.

He truly does seem like a really cool villain; I just think the problem with this issue was the fact that it was so poorly executed. We could've had another valuable piece of the story arc, with maybe three opening pages of exposition to explain the relationship between Starbreaker and Shadow Thief as well as Starbreaker's grudge against the JLA; instead, we are given a lengthy, painfully-overwrought flashback.

Faces of Evil isn't necessarily an entirely bad move, as it's been done well in the pages of Detective Comics #852. They could've done it well here, but they simply didn't.

I'd rather we skipped a month than get a poorly-done filler issue.

And what the hell happened to Crisscross? My god his art was so bad here I didn't even realize it was him. Compare this stuff to his Captain Marvel run over at Marvel and it isn't even close. If this is his new style then someone needs to tell him that he needs to go bakc to his old style right away.

Yeah. I really had no clue what happened to Chrisscross' style. It was utterly amazing in Captain Marvel. He had a definite style of his own, but this issue looked like an absurd hybrid of Mike McKone and Carlo Barbieri. I don't know what drove him to eschew his previous style, as it was so well-received and well-crafted.

Let's just say I'm eagerly awaiting issue 30, provided that McDuffie is returning to finish what looks to be an interesting arc.

[Leocomix]

I guess Wein didn't go well for Duffie's readers. For my part I gave up on Duffie a long time ago and I was interested to see Wein. He did the Final Crisis Secret Files story and that was good, I read his Superman Batman story and it's excellent (great Wrightson cover to boot). I'm curious about his JLA story which isn't as good as the other works above. Is this retold from the 1972 appearance or a new story?

[paulski]

For those guys that thought they did this issue solely for the Faces of Evil 'event', I just don't see why that would have been the case. Assuming that both McDuffie and Benes were still on schedule, they could have very easily just continued the current storyline and slapped Shadow Thief on the cover as the FoE baddie. The fact they didn't - and Wein had to step in as writer with a filler issue - shows that one or both of them are lagging behind a bit. At least that's my take on it.

I don't necessarily like it either that the story was interrupted, but it was a tolerable issue with reasonable artwork so I can live with it.

[ChrisCross]

Well, in my defense guys.....

I only had 17 days to get 22 pages of work done. That, and i had to ink pages also. They needed it done right away and i had to strip down my work by 2 thirds just to make deadline.

NOT something i want to do again.

Trust me. I and Sgt. Murtaugh agree that i'm too old for this... especially that kind of schedule.

But don't worry. I didn't lose anything.. .i'll be doing work in Gotham Gazette #1 and soon will be doing a mini with Joe Casey called Dance that will come out of the Final Crisis storylines.....

Hope that explains my apparent lack of depth in my art.

[ChrisCross]

and when you have a chance, you can check out my blog at http://chriscross-eternalkick.blogspot.com.

You can see what i'm up to and further future news there until i finally get my website up and running. :smile: :wink:

[escapegoat]

Well, in my defense guys.....

I only had 17 days to get 22 pages of work done. That, and i had to ink pages also. They needed it done right away and i had to strip down my work by 2 thirds just to make deadline.

NOT something i want to do again.

Trust me. I and Sgt. Murtaugh agree that i'm too old for this... especially that kind of schedule.

But don't worry. I didn't lose anything.. .i'll be doing work in Gotham Gazette #1 and soon will be doing a mini with Joe Casey called Dance that will come out of the Final Crisis storylines.....

Hope that explains my apparent lack of depth in my art.

Well, I didn't find your art to be bad at all in this issue. I noticed it looked a little different, but it held up good to me. I'm impressed you managed to turn out that many pages in that amount of time. Kudos to you! :smile:

Good to hear that you've got more work coming out soon.

[paulski]

Well, I didn't find your art to be bad at all in this issue. I noticed it looked a little different, but it held up good to me. I'm impressed you managed to turn out that many pages in that amount of time. Kudos to you! :smile:

I thought it was fine as well - it looked pretty strong right throughout the issue and I would never have guessed it was a rushjob. Well done.

[BWilly]

This issue was such obvious filler, definitely not worth the money I paid for it. Even the art was a disappointment, and I normally like Chris Cross.

[Raker616]

While the art wasn't spectacular I respect someone who's called upon to deliver a monthly book and actually does it, there are too many other artist who take too much time with their art and it's not really worth the wait.

[HaroldAllnut]

and when you have a chance, you can check out my blog at http://chriscross-eternalkick.blogspot.com.

You can see what i'm up to and further future news there until i finally get my website up and running. :smile: :wink:

Thanks for stopping by the boards, sir. We didn't mean to sound harsh-- only concerned.

[marshal99]

Starbreaker sure came across as goofy and campy in this issue.

[ChrisCross]

Thanks for stopping by the boards, sir. We didn't mean to sound harsh-- only concerned.


Hey guys, i'm made of sterner stuff than that.

Even i know that if i had time, i could have done much better.
It's JLA, for goodness sakes.

But when you're given a deadline, you do what you can and let it go and move on to the next project. Hopefully you get to do the job you know you're capable of on the next go-round.

It's the nature of the sexy beast sometimes.

:biggrin:

[Blade X]

The ONLY bad (and stupid) thing in this entire issue was Superman and GL moving the earth back into orbit. IMO, I find heroic characters who are this powerful to be very boring and stupid.

[Blade X]

Well, in my defense guys.....

I only had 17 days to get 22 pages of work done. That, and i had to ink pages also. They needed it done right away and i had to strip down my work by 2 thirds just to make deadline.

NOT something i want to do again.

Trust me. I and Sgt. Murtaugh agree that i'm too old for this... especially that kind of schedule.

But don't worry. I didn't lose anything.. .i'll be doing work in Gotham Gazette #1 and soon will be doing a mini with Joe Casey called Dance that will come out of the Final Crisis storylines.....

Hope that explains my apparent lack of depth in my art.

Your art was fine in this issue Cross. There are a few "hot" artist out there who can't even make their deadlines (making the books they are drawing months late) and their stuff doesn't look half as good as this issue.

Keep up the great work.

[ChrisCross]

My friends and i used to joke about what Supes looked like if he decided that he was going to push the world with his own hands.

I would shoot water through my nose at the very thought of watching Supes doing handstands in the middle of Time Square while NYkers would walk by wondering, "What the hell is he doin'?" "i think the kryptonite blunt must have finally gotten to 'im."

:rolleyes: :biggrin:

[Blade X]

My friends and i used to joke about what Supes looked like if he decided that he was going to push the world with his own hands.

I would shoot water through my nose at the very thought of watching Supes doing handstands in the middle of Time Square while NYkers would walk by wondering, "What the hell is he doin'?" "i think the kryptonite blunt must have finally gotten to 'im."

:rolleyes: :biggrin:

LOL

I still remember that one episode of the old Filmation DC Superhero cartoon (it was one of the JLA episodes) where Superman did a handstand and moved the earth. Heck, I still remember the exact words he said when he moved the earth "move mother earth, move". It was that scene from that cartoon, that Superman, in terms of power level, jumped the shark for me. Give me the classic less powerful Golden Age version of Superman any day.

[Liberty Belle Fan]

#28 was the last issue I picked up before dropping this from my pull list. I honestly and truly hope that DC puts some more effort into this title at some point in the near future. There is a lot of potential, but I've been greatly disappointed for awhile now. Hopefully now that Final Crisis has wrapped up we can see James Robinson's Justice League soon.

[$5 Milkshake]

It's absurd that anybody would be so disappointed in the quality of a FILL IN, that they would drop a series. You guys must drop a lot of books when Annuals come out.

This issue wasn't very good, though. The art was good enough I suppose, but the story was painfully tedious. I got bored halfway through and started just skimming through the story, tempted to put it down. I mean.....a villain who loses to HOPE? Ugh.

[ChrisCross]

It's absurd that anybody would be so disappointed in the quality of a FILL IN, that they would drop a series. You guys must drop a lot of books when Annuals come out.

This issue wasn't very good, though. The art was good enough I suppose, but the story was painfully tedious. I got bored halfway through and started just skimming through the story, tempted to put it down. I mean.....a villain who loses to HOPE? Ugh.

Heheh... you guys are so harsh..LOL.:biggrin: :rolleyes:

Hey, dude.. you're paying waaaaayyy too much for a milkshake.
and mines bettuh dan yours. :D

[americocaine]

Sure it wasn't great but with all the talk about how horrible Dark Avengers was even there some crackerjacks out there that actually admit the damn thing was amazing. I think its easy to see which one you'd obviously pick!

[$5 Milkshake]

Heheh... you guys are so harsh..LOL.:biggrin: :rolleyes:

Hey, dude.. you're paying waaaaayyy too much for a milkshake.
and mines bettuh dan yours. :D

LOL $5 is a fine amount for this much quality, my friend.

[ChrisCross]

Hey guys, i' ve posted another installment of some work that i did for a small company that's never going to be published. Let me know what you think when you see it on the blog and tell people.

http://chriscross-eternalkick.blogspot.com.

It's the miniseries called Tainted. Eventually it will end off with the pages that i did for Velocity, which again.. will not be published.

I feel people need to see what i've done that kept me away for awhile. And if they won't put it out there then i will. :evilsmile: :biggrin:

and feel free to comment on the blog.

[Dwayne McDuffie]

Hey guys, i' ve posted another installment of some work that i did for a small company that's never going to be published. Let me know what you think when you see it on the blog and tell people.

http://chriscross-eternalkick.blogspot.com.

It's the miniseries called Tainted. Eventually it will end off with the pages that i did for Velocity, which again.. will not be published.

I feel people need to see what i've done that kept me away for awhile. And if they won't put it out there then i will. :evilsmile: :biggrin:

and feel free to comment on the blog.

Want to draw a super-secret Milestone project? I'm going to finish the script this weekend if I finish JLA tonight.

[Greg Anderson]

Want to draw a super-secret Milestone project? I'm going to finish the script this weekend if I finish JLA tonight.

Whoa whoa whoa!!!! :eek:

[ChrisCross]

Want to draw a super-secret Milestone project? I'm going to finish the script this weekend if I finish JLA tonight.

Oh my....! A secret project? For some Milestone stories? My, whatever do you mean, Dwayne?

I guess that's something we can hash as soon as i finish my next "secret" project for DC, my work with Joe Casey on a mini series called DANCE, featuring some cool characters from Final Crisis!!!

We should talk, unc.... uh.. ahem..

Mr. McDuffie... yeah, that's it. :evilsmile:

[HaroldAllnut]

Hey guys, i' ve posted another installment of some work that i did for a small company that's never going to be published. Let me know what you think when you see it on the blog and tell people.

http://chriscross-eternalkick.blogspot.com.

It's the miniseries called Tainted. Eventually it will end off with the pages that i did for Velocity, which again.. will not be published.

I feel people need to see what i've done that kept me away for awhile. And if they won't put it out there then i will. :evilsmile: :biggrin:

and feel free to comment on the blog.

Want to draw a super-secret Milestone project? I'm going to finish the script this weekend if I finish JLA tonight.

WE HEARD IT HERE FIRST, FOLKS!

[Greg Anderson]

Oh my....! A secret project? For some Milestone stories? My, whatever do you mean, Dwayne?

I guess that's something we can hash as soon as i finish my next "secret" project for DC, my work with Joe Casey on a mini series called DANCE, featuring some cool characters from Final Crisis!!!

We should talk, unc.... uh.. ahem..

Mr. McDuffie... yeah, that's it. :evilsmile:

Oh, you guys are such teases! :redface:

[DCKar2nist]

I agree weak issue but I liked the reemergence of starbreaker, anyone remember his JLI run, that was a good comic.