Adam: Legend of The Blue Marvel #3 review with spoilers

[RolandJP]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/preview/1837/prv1837_cov.jpg





Part Superhero story, part civil rights history lesson--Adam: The Legend of the Blue Marvel issue three delves into the life of Golden Age Superhero Adam Brashear . (Ironic if you consider the timing of introducing Marvel's first black mega--superhero..emphasis on the word SUPER, and the election of Barack Obama..our nations first black President..sorry didnt mean to wax poetic.)

Sidenote--For more information as well as insight into the creation of the series by its author Kevin Grevioux..check out the indepth interview presented on Marvel.com

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.4309.SDCC_~apos~08~colon~_Adam~colon~ _Legend_of_the_Blue_Marvel


In the third act of this limited series we learn more the about man, behind the mask. And His wife, formerlly an undercover agent sent to watch Brashear. She explains why she reluctantly took the job of spying on him, and later-- how she eventually fell in love with adam--despite the prevailing racism and prejudice of the era. (shown brilliantly and not preachy)

Brasher, shocked by his wife's revelation, leaves for the moon. Where, his solace is interrupted by the Watcher. [Utau shows Adam his ability to understand all creeds, and colors..youll get the pun after reading the issue)
Anyway, during a conversation with the Watcher on the mechanics of prejudice and its in end result( using the Kree war as an example) he reminds them of the first time that they met.

At that time,(1960's) an alien invasion task force assembled over the moon with the Earth within its sights. Blue Marvel dispatches the armada with relative ease.

Cut back to the present, Adam decides to resume his Blue marvel identity. Answering Tony Starks call to defeat the remergent Ani-man.


Personal addendum:

Some may wince at the depictions of racism/classism in this issue..but I for one thought the examples were handled with class and dignity. Believe me when I say, given the many instances in which Kevin could have used we were shown the lighter versions of such abuse.

All in all, this is one of my fav minis--alongside the Yost Storm--X:men Apart., Pak War machine ongoing, I am proud to say Marvel has upped the bar.

[Alphaxman]

I liked this issue but not as much as the first two. I really hope his powers waned over the years because he is a little too powerful. The Watcher doesn't lie so I beleive he could split the moon in two.

I do hope Kevin explain next issue why Adam totally retired even when the world was in jeopardy.Maybe he waited until he knew for certain that the hero community failed in saving the Earth.

The biggest thing I can remember that treaten the whole world and the general public knew about was the Kang war in Avengers. Unlike Sercet Invasion that war took days if not weeks to end.

Galatus was a major problem but he never really began feeding before he was stopped so his presence really didn't effect the whole world.

The general public didn't know what was going on in the Infinity books other then half the population disappearing. So maybe he was one of the missing.

Kevin doesn't really have to go in that much detail but Adam does have to explain himself.

Broome art was inconsistant here and I don't like his Watcher. And I find the inking way too strong. It seems that Adam is immortal because Broome didn't age him one bit. The same lines on his face in the 60's are the same lines on his face in the present. And he has least grey hairs on his temples than Reed.

Castro was not that good ether.

Story 7
Art 6

[bluedmighty]

Excelsior beats me again :biggrin:

I enjoyed the issue.
The Cover looks even better now that its in my hands.
His Wife's confession had a "Maury" feel to it.
I also thoroughly enjoyed his conversation with the Watcher.

I have to admit, I LOVE the fact that Adam is a SUPER Hero, and with this recent entry I would hope that a Cosmic adventure isn't out of the question (the Guy made it to the Moon in minutes and was chillin in his Stacey Adams. While pondering the beauty of the Earth. YEAH JACK :biggrin: )

I also wonder if he passed any power off to his Children (Could this also be Marvel's first African American Legacy SUPER Hero? I'm not counting Ellie/Patriot for various reasons, plus he's MIA).

About the various Marvel events that Adam could have been involved with but wasn't, maybe he was in space. Or busy raising his kids. In this issue he commented on how he thought the Blue Marvel was Dead. Something the he'd left behind like the Presidential Medal of "Freedom". On the moon.

I'm interested to see what his last comment to the Watcher will mean.

All in all, Adam is the book that I've looked forward to the most these past few months. Chris Yost's Storm mini is a close second.

By the Bye, I over heard the lady at my LCS say that this book is selling better than most. YAAAAAY :biggrin:

[XPac]

I'm still not a fan of him having moon shattering strength... blah.

I'm fine with him being at that level for this mini, but I hope he gets depowered (assuming of course he's used after this).

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'm still not a fan of him having moon shattering strength... blah.

I'm fine with him being at that level for this mini, but I hope he gets depowered (assuming of course he's used after this).

He's not done anything Hulk or Thor couldn't. I'd rather they focus on his character than his powers, though.

[Sijo]

Why is The Watcher being so chatty with an Earth superhero? Doesn't that violate his noninterference vow? He is giving a human (with the power to change the world if he wishes) information about the universe, after all. What if BM decided to go fight for the freedom of the (pink) Kree, precipitating an intergalactic war?

Yes, Uatu used to be less reserved than he is now (he basically changed his attitude after he was put on trial by his own people) but still, it seems a little careless, for the reason I mentioned.

[bluedmighty]

He's not done anything Hulk or Thor couldn't. I'd rather they focus on his character than his powers, though.

I feel Kevin did a good job of that this issue.

Through his Wife's flashbacks we see that Adam is a stand up guy. Not consumed by hate but willing to live out his life with a woman he loves. We also see how fast he is to come to Earth's defense even after being used in such a fashion.

Why is The Watcher being so chatty with an Earth superhero? Doesn't that violate his noninterference vow? He is giving a human (with the power to change the world if he wishes) information about the universe, after all. What if BM decided to go fight for the freedom of the (pink) Kree, precipitating an intergalactic war?

Yes, Uatu used to be less reserved than he is now (he basically changed his attitude after he was put on trial by his own people) but still, it seems a little careless, for the reason I mentioned.

It seemed as though he was speaking of the Kree in a past tense as if to prove a point.

[XPac]

He's not done anything Hulk or Thor couldn't. I'd rather they focus on his character than his powers, though.

I guess that's part of what bugs me.

Hulk and Thor have been at the top of the mountain for decades... and suddenly we have a slew of brand new people edging their spot. This series alone introduced 2 people as powerful if not more powerful than freaking Sentry, who already showed up as suppossedly the most powerful hero on earth.

Had there not been a Sentry, this might not have bothered me as much. I can buy marvel pulling this ONCE... but I'm not a fan of this becoming a pattern.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Why is The Watcher being so chatty with an Earth superhero? Doesn't that violate his noninterference vow? He is giving a human (with the power to change the world if he wishes) information about the universe, after all. What if BM decided to go fight for the freedom of the (pink) Kree, precipitating an intergalactic war?

Yes, Uatu used to be less reserved than he is now (he basically changed his attitude after he was put on trial by his own people) but still, it seems a little careless, for the reason I mentioned.

I think that after watching humanity for a few thousand years, he can judge what's safe information to give out. IIRC, he's chatted it up with Quasar and (Eric Masterson) Thor to pass the time.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I guess that's part of what bugs me.

Hulk and Thor have been at the top of the mountain for decades... and suddenly we have a slew of brand new people edging their spot. This series alone introduced 2 people as powerful if not more powerful than freaking Sentry, who already showed up as suppossedly the most powerful hero on earth.

Had there not been a Sentry, this might not have bothered me as much. I can buy marvel pulling this ONCE... but I'm not a fan of this becoming a pattern.

The difference here though is that his power serves a legitmate plot and character point, though.

With Sentry, his power is practically his main point. He's intended as a Silver Age Superman which entails a considerable deal of power (wish they realized what DC ditched it).

Hulk and Thor are still the top tops. The only thing that's really changed is that they have a few more equals and after 30 years, it's long since due.

[XPac]

The difference here though is that his power serves a legitmate plot and character point, though.

With Sentry, his power is practically his main point. He's intended as a Silver Age Superman which entails a considerable deal of power (wish they realized what DC ditched it).

Hulk and Thor are still the top tops. The only thing that's really changed is that they have a few more equals and after 30 years, it's long since due.

The use Sentry himself to proclaim the villain is the most powerful being he's ever seen. They talk about this guy splitting the freaking moon.

I agree his power isn't the main point (nor it is for Sentry for that matter), but the writer is clearly going out of his way to sell this guy as the top of the food chain. Bendis and Jenkins have Sentry say he's the most powerful hero on earth... then this writer comes along and has Sentry proclaim that these guys are. It's like a pissing contest or something.

If they had left all of this out and merely left his power level vague but high, I personally wouldn't be as bothered by it. But it's pretty much in your face.

[Umbra]

Excelsior beats me again :biggrin:

I enjoyed the issue.
The Cover looks even better now that its in my hands.
His Wife's confession had a "Maury" feel to it.
I also thoroughly enjoyed his conversation with the Watcher.

I have to admit, I LOVE the fact that Adam is a SUPER Hero, and with this recent entry I would hope that a Cosmic adventure isn't out of the question (the Guy made it to the Moon in minutes and was chillin in his Stacey Adams. While pondering the beauty of the Earth. YEAH JACK :biggrin: )

I also wonder if he passed any power off to his Children (Could this also be Marvel's first African American Legacy SUPER Hero? I'm not counting Eli for various reasons, plus he's MIA).

About the various Marvel events that Adam could have been involved with but wasn't, maybe he was in space. Or busy raising his kids. In this issue he commented on how he thought the Blue Marvel was Dead. Something the he'd left behind like the Presidential Medal of "Freedom". On the moon.

I'm interested to see what his last comment to the Watcher will mean.

All in all, Adam is the book that I've looked forward to the most these past few months. Chris Yost's Storm mini is a close second.

By the Bye, I over heard the lady at my LCS say that this book is selling better than most. YAAAAAY :biggrin:

Yeah it was stold out at my LCS.
I reserved mine!!!:biggrin:

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I also wonder if he passed any power off to his Children (Could this also be Marvel's first African American Legacy SUPER Hero? I'm not counting Ellie/Patriot for various reasons, plus he's MIA).

I don't disagree with any of the points in your post save this. Eli is third generation super hero. Despite not currently appearing in an ongoing he has demonstrated a solid place in the Marvel Universe, and while I have great hopes for Blue Marvel, he is new and more than that he is just one man at this point, and potential stories for him and his legacy can't undo or lessen the wonderful characters in the Bradley family, including Eli and his uncle Josiah and his grandfather Isaiah.

Other than that I feel the same way about the series, great job so far. I can't wait to see what they do with Adam and I look forward to the remainder of the mini and more from Adam.

[XPac]

I don't disagree with any of the points in your post save this. Eli is third generation super hero. Despite not currently appearing in an ongoing he has demonstrated a solid place in the Marvel Universe, and while I have great hopes for Blue Marvel, he is new and more than that he is just one man at this point, and potential stories for him and his legacy can't undo or lessen the wonderful characters in the Bradley family, including Eli and his uncle Josiah and his grandfather Isaiah.

Other than that I feel the same way about the series, great job so far. I can't wait to see what they do with Adam and I look forward to the remainder of the mini and more from Adam.

Yeah... someone really needs to do something with the Bradleys. They're a great addition to the MU.

Hopefully when Young Avengers returns, we'll get to see more of them.

[bluedmighty]

I don't disagree with any of the points in your post save this. Eli is third generation super hero. Despite not currently appearing in an ongoing he has demonstrated a solid place in the Marvel Universe, and while I have great hopes for Blue Marvel, he is new and more than that he is just one man at this point, and potential stories for him and his legacy can't undo or lessen the wonderful characters in the Bradley family, including Eli and his uncle Josiah and his grandfather Isaiah.

Other than that I feel the same way about the series, great job so far. I can't wait to see what they do with Adam and I look forward to the remainder of the mini and more from Adam.

Fair. No disrespect to the Bradleys, but I feel that there hasn't been anything done with their characters (we don't even know the extent of Eli's powers). For me, they'll be in the shadow of Cap forever, or at least for a long time. The last time Eli was in a book he was so for in the back, I thought he was an extra. Josiah hasn't been seen since I don't know when.

[babybro]

It's about time we have a character who is of african descent that truly is a powerhouse. Almost every character is either gadget tech or street level fighters at the most. With Blue Marvel and Icon from Milestone arrive, they have officially become one of my favorite characters in comic. I truly hope they keep his power level where he is, so at least if he puts silver surfer in an armbar, there will be a legitimate reason why LMAO!!

[W.Y.B.A.]

I guess that's part of what bugs me.

Hulk and Thor have been at the top of the mountain for decades... and suddenly we have a slew of brand new people edging their spot. This series alone introduced 2 people as powerful if not more powerful than freaking Sentry, who already showed up as suppossedly the most powerful hero on earth.

Had there not been a Sentry, this might not have bothered me as much. I can buy marvel pulling this ONCE... but I'm not a fan of this becoming a pattern.

I'll never understand why people get so precious about this sort of thing, I think it's good to have the status quo challenged.

[Alan2099]

Why is The Watcher being so chatty with an Earth superhero? Doesn't that violate his noninterference vow? He is giving a human (with the power to change the world if he wishes) information about the universe, after all. What if BM decided to go fight for the freedom of the (pink) Kree, precipitating an intergalactic war?
The Watcher has explained before that "unlike what earthpeople would like to think" talking does not count as taking any action and thus he's still able to speak withut it counting as interfering.

[pharoahe22]

The use Sentry himself to proclaim the villain is the most powerful being he's ever seen. They talk about this guy splitting the freaking moon.

I agree his power isn't the main point (nor it is for Sentry for that matter), but the writer is clearly going out of his way to sell this guy as the top of the food chain. Bendis and Jenkins have Sentry say he's the most powerful hero on earth... then this writer comes along and has Sentry proclaim that these guys are. It's like a pissing contest or something.

If they had left all of this out and merely left his power level vague but high, I personally wouldn't be as bothered by it. But it's pretty much in your face.


Yeah but it might be one of those things where just like The Sentry and the Void are connected, and no one could beat the Void but the Sentry, maybe no one can beat Anti-Man but the Blue Marvel. It was already stated that the Blue Marvel wasn't as powerful as Thor. Thor, Black Bolt, Hulk, the Sentry, and a few others could probably split the Moon in two as well...Maybe even Hercules. Blue Marvel is powerful, but as the Marvel Universe is probably the most dangerous universe in comics, having another powerful super hero isn't a big deal...especially when he comes with a new vilain to cancel him out. They're doing a good job of this I think. We've seen Earth-bound adventures against powerful villains, and adventures in outer space against powerful villains...which is what should be done with a character this powerful. I ran down the list of at least 35 different villains on this power level before...so it's really not a big deal. I'm enjoying this series and think that it's highly underrated.

[XPac]

Yeah but it might be one of those things where just like The Sentry and the Void are connected, and no one could beat the Void but the Sentry, maybe no one can beat Anti-Man but the Blue Marvel. It was already stated that the Blue Marvel wasn't as powerful as Thor. Thor, Black Bolt, Hulk, the Sentry, and a few others could probably split the Moon in two as well...Maybe even Hercules. Blue Marvel is powerful, but as the Marvel Universe is probably the most dangerous universe in comics, having another powerful super hero isn't a big deal...especially when he comes with a new vilain to cancel him out. They're doing a good job of this I think. We've seen Earth-bound adventures against powerful villains, and adventures in outer space against powerful villains...which is what should be done with a character this powerful. I ran down the list of at least 35 different villains on this power level before...so it's really not a big deal. I'm enjoying this series and think that it's highly underrated.

Marvel characters really don't have those kinds of power feats (unless maybe if Loeb is writing it). Doing things like splitting the moon in two is really more a DC Silver Age pre-Crisis SUperman thing. Thor or Black Bolt could probably blow up the moon... that's a bit different.

Even DC I think for the most part is staying clear of those kinds of power feats (again, unless maybe Loeb is writing it). I'm just not a fan of writers taking characters in the direction Loeb is fond of, where they can shatter moons and things like that. If characters are that strong, then even people like She-Hulk and Thing (who only have like class 80 or so strength) should be like ants to them. Marvel power scales typically tend to be more down to earth than PC Superman ones, and it's that way for a reason in my opinion.

If he's THAT powerful, he needs to be depowered, or he needs to be badly written (a la Sentry) in order to make him usable. Or I guess he can just go back to retirement. That works too.

[pharoahe22]

Marvel characters really don't have those kinds of power feats (unless maybe if Loeb is writing it). Doing things like splitting the moon in two is really more a DC Silver Age pre-Crisis SUperman thing. Thor or Black Bolt could probably blow up the moon... that's a bit different.

Even DC I think for the most part is staying clear of those kinds of power feats (again, unless maybe Loeb is writing it). I'm just not a fan of writers taking characters in the direction Loeb is fond of, where they can shatter moons and things like that. If characters are that strong, then even people like She-Hulk and Thing (who only have like class 80 or so strength) should be like ants to them. Marvel power scales typically tend to be more down to earth than PC Superman ones, and it's that way for a reason in my opinion.

If he's THAT powerful, he needs to be depowered, or he needs to be badly written (a la Sentry) in order to make him usable. Or I guess he can just go back to retirement. That works too.

See, to me, that's not true...when you have beings like this in your universe, there's no need to de-power a hero:

Earth-Based:
*Ultron
*High Evolutionary
*Juggernaut (fully-powered and evil)
*Apocalypse
*Count Nefaria
*Titannus
*The Living Monolith
*Maelstrom
*Magneto
*Absorbing Man
*Fin Fang Foom
*Ajak/Druig (The evil Eternals)
*D'Spayre
*Molecule Man
*Hyperstorm
*Dr. Doom (Doom can take anyone with prep-time)
*Loki
*Enchantress
*The Void
*Red Hulk
*Anti-Man
*Xeniac
*Morgan le Fay
*The Horde
etc.

Then he could travel through space and different Dimensions to face:
*Ymir and the Frost Giants
*Thanos
*Mephisto
*Nightmare
*Magus
*Korvac
*The Beyonder
*Satannish
*Dormmamu
*Ego the Living Planet
*Galactus, Silver Surfer, and the Heralds
*The Grandmaster
*The Collector
*Blackheart
*Death
*Hela
*The Luminals
*Cobweb
*The Great Beasts
*Llan the Soceror
*Gog and Magog
*Kurse
*Mikaboshi
*The Inhumans
*Vulcan/Gladiator/The Shi'ar
*Eldest of the Scry'ar Tal
*Plotka
etc.

And you can also make up villains. That's not even counting the heroes that he could have mis-understandings with, like Thor, the Sentry, Wonderman...he could even go up against whole teams of Super-heroes. Absolutely no reason to depower him. And he didn't actually destroy the moon. The Watcher just mentions that he could have. It's also been mentioned that the Sentry, Silver Surfer, and Thor could destroy planets and stuff before. Yes, Marvel doesn't really show feats like that, but it's been mentioned that it's within several characters capabilities...so I don't see the problem.

[XPac]

See, to me, that's not true...when you have beings like this in your universe, there's no need to de-power a hero:

Earth-Based:
*Ultron
*High Evolutionary
*Juggernaut (fully-powered and evil)
*Apocalypse
*Count Nefaria
*Titannus
*The Living Monolith
*Maelstrom
*Magneto
*Absorbing Man
*Fin Fang Foom
*Ajak/Druig (The evil Eternals)
*D'Spayre
*Molecule Man
*Hyperstorm
*Dr. Doom (Doom can take anyone with prep-time)
*Loki
*Enchantress
*The Void
*Red Hulk
*Anti-Man
*Xeniac
*Morgan le Fay
*The Horde
etc.

Then he could travel through space and different Dimensions to face:
*Ymir and the Frost Giants
*Thanos
*Mephisto
*Nightmare
*Magus
*Korvac
*The Beyonder
*Satannish
*Dormmamu
*Ego the Living Planet
*Galactus, Silver Surfer, and the Heralds
*The Grandmaster
*The Collector
*Blackheart
*Death
*Hela
*The Luminals
*Cobweb
*The Great Beasts
*Llan the Soceror
*Gog and Magog
*Kurse
*Mikaboshi
*The Inhumans
*Vulcan/Gladiator/The Shi'ar
*Eldest of the Scry'ar Tal
*Plotka
etc.

And you can also make up villains. That's not even counting the heroes that he could have mis-understandings with, like Thor, the Sentry, Wonderman...he could even go up against whole teams of Super-heroes. Absolutely no reason to depower him. And he didn't actually destroy the moon. The Watcher just mentions that he could have. It's also been mentioned that the Sentry, Silver Surfer, and Thor could destroy planets and stuff before. Yes, Marvel doesn't really show feats like that, but it's been mentioned that it's within several characters capabilities...so I don't see the problem.

If you don't see the problem, just look at Sentry. Hell, look at Superman... 99% of the time, if Superman used his full potential most fights would be over in a fraction of a second... literally. Most of the time, he needs to be written badly.

Characters like this are often badly written when they're not depowered. It's a very very common problem for characters with Superman powersets. It's why Superman himself was depowered in the first place.

[pharoahe22]

If you don't see the problem, just look at Sentry. Hell, look at Superman... 99% of the time, if Superman used his full potential most fights would be over in a fraction of a second... literally. Most of the time, he needs to be written badly.

Characters like this are often badly written when they're not depowered. It's a very very common problem for characters with Superman powersets. It's why Superman himself was depowered in the first place.

Yeah but the reason is because writers are lazy with powerful superheroes. The Sentry would be awesome and they wouldn't have to dumb his powers down if they'd just let him fight the available villains in his power level. They don't want to give them a real challenge. Superman should never ever in the history of his life fight Toyman. Never. Everyone he fights should be a Darkseid, Superboy Prime, Bizarro level character. Then, you don't have to dumb him down. They could actually be creative and make some new villains. It's not hard. The universe is large. There's got to be a villain out there who hasn't reached Supes part of the Galaxy before.

Now watch this with the Blue Marvel:

Blue Marvel vs. Titannus: Titannus fairly easily defeated the Hulk. Anyone who can easily defeat the Hulk is a big time villain Powerwise. Currently in SHIELD custody, but who's to say he doesn't get free somehow, or is even working for Norman and HAMMER now?

Blue Marvel vs. Satannish: Satannish was single-handledly powerful enough to destroy the entrie skrull army in Britain just by using a little magic. I'd say he's definetly more powerful than the Blue Marvel. Satannish and a bunch of other demons are running loose in Britain.

Blue Marvel vs. Count Nefaria: Count Nefaria is an earth-based villain with Superman-like powers. He's around...Go for it.

Blue Marvel vs. The Sentry/Void: The Sentry is working for Norman Osborne, who is evil. Easy one to write.

Blue Marvel vs. Dormammu: The Hood is running around in NY...and the Hood that he gets his powers from is Dormmamu's. The Hood becomes Dormmamu's lackey and finds a way to bring him into this realm.

Blue Marvel vs. Mikaboshi: Mikaboshi is the God of Evil...I'm sure he'd give the Blue Marvel a hard time. Only problem would be developing a plot in which their interaction would make sense.

Blue Marvel vs. Ego the Living planet: The Worldmind deputized Ego as a Nova Centurian. Worldmind looks to be making some moves that some of the heroes will be opposed to. Ego and the Blue Marvel battle in space.

Blue Marvel vs. The evil Eternals: Druig gets ambitious, joins his forces with Ajak...the Blue Marvel joins Ikaris to take them down...Ajak has god-like power...he would definetly be a test.

Blue Marvel vs. Shi'ar: Blue Marvel joins the war against the very aggressive Shi'ar empire, who sets their sights on Earth. Vulcan wants to take over to make a point to Professor Xavier and Havok before he kills them. Blue Marvel of course joins the fight because it's a major threat against Earth, and of course fights the entire Imperial Guard, then Gladiator 1 on 1, then Vulcan.

Blue Marvel vs. The Inhumans:
Nuff said. The Blue Marvel vs. the Kree army and the Inhuman Royal family...and finally, a one on one fight with the king, Lord Black Bolt.

I just very easily gave you 10 stories...of course they would need to be fleshed out, and a script would need to be developed to connect the ideas, but all of these are top-tier threats for the Blue Marvel to face. I don't see the problem at all. The only problem I see with the Sentry is that the writers don't want to give him a real challenge. Just look at Nova. The Sentry doesn't have to stay on Earth. He can roam the galaxy fighting evil....he has the capabilities. When he is on Earth, there are plenty of characters that could give him a hard time. Same with the Blue Marvel. No problem whatsoever.

[tjarvis]

The power thing bugged me for a while, but this is his initial mini, so Blue Adam is going to be hyped up in this one.

I have very little doubt that he'll be toned down to be more consistent with the base powerline in the MU after a little bit.

To some extent, the same thing is happening to the Sentry right now, although I have a feeling that Bendis is planning on unleashing him soon.

As to the character of Adam, I like him, but he's not entirely grabbing me just yet. I get the issues he's had to confront, and that's intriguing, but I'm not really getting much as to the kind of man he is. I think I need more character depth outside of the race thing before I would follow him into another series. He might be a good candidate for a team book though.

[XPac]

Well, if you don't see the problem that's fine. Again, I think there are decades worth of Superman stories by dozens and dozens of different writers which tell a different story.

When I see a Superman clone in comics being written to his full potential ability wise on a consistant basis, I'll believe it. But there hasn't been over the past few decades, so you'll excuse me if I don't necessariy buy that Blue Marvel will magically be the exception.

Right now he's already fighting someone thats more powerful than Sentry. That's a pretty high standard in my book.

[million_suns]

Xpac, I wouldn't worry. Blue Marvel has not done anything yet that Sentry, Hulk, Thor, Herc or even Ares couldn't do.
You want to job Sentry to Anti Man? It's easy. Let it happen. Sentry is a guy who you can write up or down, power wise, because that's just how his powers are. That's part of the fun. Sentry loses to Anti-Man, claims he's never seen anyone so powerful. SENTRY does not know how powerful he himself is, so you can always write him at any power you like. Just like Hulk's "Madder I get" shtick, and just like Thor's Odin/Thorforce plus assorted add-ons. They're all devices to allow characters to be both invincible, and vulnerable when they need to be.

I for one am all for Blue Marvel. This guy is incredible. Can't wait to pick this up tomorrow.

[Venom Melendez]

Another good issue.


I loved his interaction with Uatu especially the first thing he said to him.


I also don't se the problem with Adam's power and really it really isn't that high.

[pharoahe22]

Well, if you don't see the problem that's fine. Again, I think there are decades worth of Superman stories by dozens and dozens of different writers which tell a different story.

When I see a Superman clone in comics being written to his full potential ability wise on a consistant basis, I'll believe it. But there hasn't been over the past few decades, so you'll excuse me if I don't necessariy buy that Blue Marvel will magically be the exception.

Right now he's already fighting someone thats more powerful than Sentry. That's a pretty high standard in my book.

Fair enough. I think it would just take the right writer. For example, he might not be a Superman clone...more like a Green Lantern clone, but Nova, with the full version of the Nova force is really really powerful. He has class 100 strength, energy projection, and super speed, which is Superman-like, and DnA seem to be pitting him against top-notch enemies. I think DnA would handle the Blue Marvel well. I never understood why so many writers had problems writing Superman. Yeah, he's really really powerful...but that just means that he shouldn't be stopping bank robbers. Leave that type of stuff for the lower-powered heroes. Superman should always be fighting people like Atlas, Superboy Prime, Darkseid...gods from DC pantheons, Bizarro...Parasite was a good villain because he could drain Supes powers and Metallo because of the kryptonite...and Brainiac is a good villain...but he should only ever fight people who can challenge his power. If the Blue Marvel fought all of the people I listed that are on that god-like power level (and Doom, because Doom took down the Beyonder and can take down anyone lol), it would be enough for like 5 years of solo stories without recycling villains...and it was be awesome run. Can you imagine the Red Skull brain-washing the Sentry and pitting him against the Blue Marvel or the Blue Marvel trapped in some grand scheme by the Collector and the Grandmaster? That would be awesome!

All it takes is a little creativity, and you can make any hero with any power set work. This is comics...you can literally name any hero, and I could create a villain right now that would be able to take him down or give him trouble. Superman? Hmmm....how about we create a character...an alien from the furthest darkest regions of another galaxy that has Strength, speed, and Energy projection (Like Superman, but let's say that the energy is high intensity sonic waves...not quite Blackbolt level but pretty high...emitted from his mouth and hands), but he's a despot...leader of an alien army...and he's headed to this galaxy to expand his empire. He's also trained in various different alien culture's martial arts...so he's better at h2h than Supes. Now let's see...let's create a look...and now we have to develop this guy's back story...how did he get his powers...what makes him tick? How did he get to be evil? And then you try to create something unique so that he's not a generic powerful villain. It might take a lot of work to create an original character...but it's not impossible to make top-notch threats for god-like characters.

[amazoniansrule]

Can some of you cut the crap with the dam power level. You are basically talking down a great series just because some of you feel you know what is best for Marvel. "oh he's too powerful" Marvel has had powerhouses galore. Also,don't give me that garbage about all the most powerful were in space.

Juggernaut/Dr. Strange/Hulk/Graviton/Odin/Molecule man/Pulsar/Binary/Count Nefaria/The Eternals/BlackBolt/Magneto/Mad Jim Jaspers

Get over it,he is powerful.

[weapon-smith]

i for one am pleased that there is finally a black superman type hero finally. all we normally get , as someone else on this thread stated is street level heroes and when we do get a powerful black character like monica rambeau, they are mistreated ( she has had like 3 names already), depowered or not developed. this character could have been a marvel ' wildcard' in any battle much like dc's flash. the character could have been an avengers great. what a waste!

the way i see what is happening at marvel now is that during the jla/avengers mini, marvel heroes were shown ( and stated) to be weaker than their dc counterparts. krona owning galactus like a bitch was not very palitable either. now since that mini, marvel have now at least 3 more superman level heroes ( sentry blue marvel nova) and you have some existing heroes ( thor, iron man hulk , luke cage silver surfer ms marvel ETC) powered up since then not to mention new people like ares .now if marvel squared up against dc now, marvel could actually stand a chance of winning, whereas before...forget it.

i also find it really interesting that there has not been or will be ( for the forseeable future) a crossover between marvel and dc since. i think the marvel u suffered a bit and lost face after that crossover, so now they are trying to readdress the balance.

[XPac]

i for one am pleased that there is finally a black superman type hero finally. all we normally get , as someone else on this thread stated is street level heroes and when we do get a powerful black character like monica rambeau, they are mistreated ( she has had like 3 names already), depowered or not developed. this character could have been a marvel ' wildcard' in any battle much like dc's flash. the character could have been an avengers great. what a waste!

the way i see what is happening at marvel now is that during the jla/avengers mini, marvel heroes were shown ( and stated) to be weaker than their dc counterparts. krona owning galactus like a bitch was not very palitable either. now since that mini, marvel have now at least 3 more superman level heroes ( sentry blue marvel nova) and you have some existing heroes ( thor, iron man hulk , luke cage silver surfer ms marvel ETC) powered up since then not to mention new people like ares .now if marvel squared up against dc now, marvel could actually stand a chance of winning, whereas before...forget it.

i also find it really interesting that there has not been or will be ( for the forseeable future) a crossover between marvel and dc since. i think the marvel u suffered a bit and lost face after that crossover, so now they are trying to readdress the balance.

It's true that there were no black Supermen in marvel (though prior to Sentry, there weren't really any Supermen at all aside from guys like Gladiator or Hyperion who weren't really used as heroes most of the time). There's Storm and as you mentioned Monica... both are actually pretty powerful. But they're not quite top tier... and I do agree we could and should see more. Again, I don't agree with using pre-crisis level powerfeats that even DC for the most part doesn't use anymore... but I still think a few uber characters of color (and not just black for the record) would be a good thing.

But in regards to JLA/Avengers... we have to remember that this wasn't Marvel vs DC. And despite the hyperbole, the Avengers aren't always earth's mightiest heroes. If Phoenix or Dr. Strange or SIlver Surfer were Avengers, they might have had an easier time with the league (hell, in hindsight we know Scarlet Witch probably could have owned both teams single handedly). Marvel most powerful characters are already powerful enough to fight DC's most powerful... it's just that they weren't Avengers at the time. Blue Marvel's not an Avenger... so even if they were to do it again, it still wouldn't help. Sentry clearly would though. Though honestly, I'm not sure marvel even cares about this sort of thing anyways.

[bluedmighty]

A question to those not convinced:

How could his character be better fleshed out?

What do you think is missing from the story?

[bluedmighty]

I'm curious.

Are there any White Women who have read this story?
Are there any White Women married to Black Men who have read this story?

What do they think about the character Marlene, and how she was written?

[RolandJP]

I'm curious.

Are there any White Women who have read this story?
Are there any White Women married to Black Men who have read this story?

What do they think about the character Marlene, and how she was written?



Well my better half is Irish. She read the story..loved it..and thought Kevin G was being too kind, when it comes to racism mixed couples receive. Altho her parents didnt disown her, some of her uncles had a fit. ironically enough a few have Hispanic wives.

[weapon-smith]

It's true that there were no black Supermen in marvel (though prior to Sentry, there weren't really any Supermen at all aside from guys like Gladiator or Hyperion who weren't really used as heroes most of the time). There's Storm and as you mentioned Monica... both are actually pretty powerful. But they're not quite top tier... and I do agree we could and should see more. Again, I don't agree with using pre-crisis level powerfeats that even DC for the most part doesn't use anymore... but I still think a few uber characters of color (and not just black for the record) would be a good thing.

But in regards to JLA/Avengers... we have to remember that this wasn't Marvel vs DC. And despite the hyperbole, the Avengers aren't always earth's mightiest heroes. If Phoenix or Dr. Strange or SIlver Surfer were Avengers, they might have had an easier time with the league (hell, in hindsight we know Scarlet Witch probably could have owned both teams single handedly). Marvel most powerful characters are already powerful enough to fight DC's most powerful... it's just that they weren't Avengers at the time. Blue Marvel's not an Avenger... so even if they were to do it again, it still wouldn't help. Sentry clearly would though. Though honestly, I'm not sure marvel even cares about this sort of thing anyways.

scarlet witch couldnt have owned both teams if flash wasnt conveniently depowered. HE would have owned both teams before she even raised a finger. for all the energies she weilds, she is still only a human level female. even batman could easily take her out, no problem. guys taken down 4 white martians! 'heavy hitter' iron man was only effective with the aid of a dc motherbox. marvel had to be powered up wjilst dc heroes were mysteriously powered down. lol, hawkeye taking captain aton down with some arrows.

that was then. now:

marvel could make sentry as powerful as they want as we stil dont know his upper power level, so supes aint owning him. that would leave wonder woman for thor. he could concievably take her. if creativity was being used, monica rambeau could have concievably tapped into flash's speedforce to counter him. if she could do it with the otherwordly gl cosmic force, earth based speedforce shouldnt be any harder. scarlet witch could then be free to deal with g.l

ms marvel, iron man, thor have both been powered up since , and the avengers have had the addition of ares, so yeah, jla/avengers would have be a lot different now.

sure marvel can stack up against the mid/lower dc heroes, but after the mini series, dc still came away with the reputation of still having comicbooks biggest strongest fastest toughest heroes from a brighter bigger earth leaving the marvel heroes to get back to their ( as the mini stated) hellhole world gone mad.

marvel 'no longer cares' about such? marvel used to revel in their reputation of having lower powered more human heroes. the fact we have sentry level guys appearing nearly every month seems to me that marvel are changing their stance....

[bluedmighty]

Well my better half is Irish. She read the story..loved it..and thought Kevin G was being too kind, when it comes to racism mixed couples receive. Altho her parents didnt disown her, some of her uncles had a fit. ironically enough a few have Hispanic wives.

Thanx for the response.

That IS ironic.

[million_suns]

I'm with the weapon guy here. I was giving it a lot of thought.

People, in wondering/worrying/complaining at how powerful Adam is, are missing a great story because they're off counting trees instead of seeing the forest.
Just because Adam exists isn't a reason to NOT have Thor, or Sentry, or Hulk, or any other earth based class 100.
I DO think that a character needs to exist, before the story, and to not just have a story to pin on a character. This is why Sentry has struggled to find an audience.
Luckily, due to either supreme luck, or devious planning, Greivoux has unleashed the Blue Marvel right on time, both politically, and economically. This is the right time to tell the story of Adam Brashear.

I did observe that this was a direct approach to racism, and facism, and elitism; some say it's a bold new move, I say what about the X-Men Mutants vs Humans deal that was all the rage when the X-Men first hit print?
The idea is nothing new, and Marvel has addressed it countless times, and yet I'm utterly hooked on this mini. This, and Age of the Sentry, plus the Loeb Hulk Spoof have kept me entertained, and been re-read far more often than any of Bendis's "Changing Marvel Universe forver" style events.

My only complaint? The first issue WOULD seem to be a misprint. This only runs for five, and not six issues.

[weapon-smith]

thanx for the support milliion suns.

'nother reason jla wouldnt be owning a team of avengers now is that two of marvels most popular heroes ( spidey wolvie) are also now on the team,. marvel wouldnt allow anybody to own them.

this has wiped the 'slate' since the mini. marvel can claim they are not underdogs anymore.

[amazoniansrule]

for every new powerful character there is one being depowered. Take Black Tarantula/Spiderman losing his abilities after "the other", juggernaut for a long time was weakened,hulk when smart was not as strong as savage and he was smart for a long long time.

Drax is weaker now,ares now is rather pedestrian. Wonder man cannot even go into his ionic energy form now. Rogue doesn't even have the ms. marvel powers anymore. ms. Marvel doesn't even have the binary powers.

[weapon-smith]

most of the depowered people you say are c to z listers. even wonderman who has been criminally underused for years. he was created to beat the avengers singlehanded. most of his bigger feats were in 'human' form anyway. how was ionic better? he was owning thor in west coast avengers in his human form, and dismantled dragon man. he was constantly referred to as a guy who "hit as hard as thors hammer". anyway wether these characters you state go up r down wont make much of a big issue. these characters dont even have a comic to themselves. ms marvel has taken on sentry and wonderman. her basic powerset has gone way up. she has absorbed power equivalenty to an atom bomb to take out sentry.m she took out a whole battalion of super skrulls single handedly saving new york . she wasnt doing any of this pre jla/avengers. hmm not too depowered....

anyway, underpowering a character a bit is not like just introducing another superman, ala blue marvel or sentry. or making hulk a "world breaker" to the extent just WALKING was shaking the earth. raising the power set of marvels top dogs raises the power set of the whole marvel u as other main characters have to be powered up to keep up. if you power up hulk you have to power up thor otherwise hulk would be too powerful for any hero to be a threat. it would also cheapen the character of thor as he has always been up in hulks strength league.

what i am saying is that most of the characters who matter are being powered up. big characters. main characters. the one likely to be involved in a crossover. the thors hulks iron men etc... how many MAJOR characters have suffered depowering ?

[RolandJP]

That IS ironic.

Its a Texas thing. ::looks confused::

[RonnieThunderbolts]

My only complaint? The first issue WOULD seem to be a misprint. This only runs for five, and not six issues.

Not a misprint, a change in planning.
Here you can find the original solicit for issue 1 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=17755&page=article):
ADAM: LEGEND OF THE BLUE MARVEL #1 (of 4)

Here is the solicit for issue 2 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=18060&page=article):
ADAM: LEGEND OF THE BLUE MARVEL #2 (of 4)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18505:
ADAM: LEGEND OF THE BLUE MARVEL #3 (of 6)

And for issue 4 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18859):
ADAM: LEGEND OF THE BLUE MARVEL #4 (of 6)

And finally, for issue 5 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=19186)
ADAM: LEGEND OF THE BLUE MARVEL #5 (of 5)

It was before the release of issue 1 that it was changed to a 6 issue mini from the originally announced 4 issue mini. The first 2 solicits were for the 4 issues, but by the time the first had come out and the third was solicited, it was changed to 6. Somewhereafter the soliciting of issue 4 and before the publication of issue 2, where the current 5 issue series number is set.

It is bittersweet. In some ways I'm just glad we get the extra issue from the original promise of 4, but I'm also disappointed we won't get 6. It shows some lack of planning on Marvel's part to change horses in midstream, so to speak, but I'm glad they're giving this series a bit of a push and let Kevin G expand the story at least one issue.

[amazoniansrule]

most of the depowered people you say are c to z listers. even wonderman who has been criminally underused for years. he was created to beat the avengers singlehanded. most of his bigger feats were in 'human' form anyway. how was ionic better? he was owning thor in west coast avengers in his human form, and dismantled dragon man. he was constantly referred to as a guy who "hit as hard as thors hammer". anyway wether these characters you state go up r down wont make much of a big issue. these characters dont even have a comic to themselves. ms marvel has taken on sentry and wonderman. her basic powerset has gone way up. she has absorbed power equivalenty to an atom bomb to take out sentry.m she took out a whole battalion of super skrulls single handedly saving new york . she wasnt doing any of this pre jla/avengers. hmm not too depowered....

anyway, underpowering a character a bit is not like just introducing another superman, ala blue marvel or sentry. or making hulk a "world breaker" to the extent just WALKING was shaking the earth. raising the power set of marvels top dogs raises the power set of the whole marvel u as other main characters have to be powered up to keep up. if you power up hulk you have to power up thor otherwise hulk would be too powerful for any hero to be a threat. it would also cheapen the character of thor as he has always been up in hulks strength league.

what i am saying is that most of the characters who matter are being powered up. big characters. main characters. the one likely to be involved in a crossover. the thors hulks iron men etc... how many MAJOR characters have suffered depowering ?

yeah your right....how could i forget how big a world beater the x-men are. After all,most of them can single handedly take down Kang or Count Nefaria. X-MEN ARE MAJOR,THEY ARE NOT POWERED UP. The only one who was powered up was Jean Grey and she has been dead.

Iron Man even with extremis is not that powerful. Hulk could thunderclap the dam armor off. Wolverine could take out Iron Man and that isn't saying much.

Spiderman...another major character...Only sparsely has ever been powered up and those were minor events that happen once every 10 years.

Hulk already lost his wwh form so he is not as powerful as he was then,spiderman lost his the other powers,Wonder man is his ionic form is more powerful,no if's and's or but's about it. Iron Man has already lost his extremis after what happened to him.

Major people have been depowered.

[weapon-smith]

yeah your right....how could i forget how big a world beater the x-men are. After all,most of them can single handedly take down Kang or Count Nefaria. X-MEN ARE MAJOR,THEY ARE NOT POWERED UP. The only one who was powered up was Jean Grey and she has been dead.

Iron Man even with extremis is not that powerful. Hulk could thunderclap the dam armor off. Wolverine could take out Iron Man and that isn't saying much.

Spiderman...another major character...Only sparsely has ever been powered up and those were minor events that happen once every 10 years.

Hulk already lost his wwh form so he is not as powerful as he was then,spiderman lost his the other powers,Wonder man is his ionic form is more powerful,no if's and's or but's about it. Iron Man has already lost his extremis after what happened to him.

Major people have been depowered.


the xman. ah yes. collectively, the biggesst and most popular GROUP of characters in comicdom. i agree. COLLECTIVELY. now INDIVIDUALLY, some of them are not even d list in their own group.. iceman? rogue? beast? how come these guys ( outside of wolvie) are not even popular enough to sustain their own comic ? "popular"? iceman? yeah he'll sell well. beast? yeah great. cyclops? colossus? yawn..yeah. the xmen are small parts of a huge machine. its like me saying a cog in a ferrari is as important of the ferrari itself....so yeah, rogue is still a c-z lister in the scheme of marvel. ya could kill the girl off tommorow.individually these characters are too boring for marvel to even contemplate giving them their own book. all iremember is a couple of 4 issue mini series.

you might counter and say that a ferrari might not work without the cog, but then ANY other cog will do. would the x-man machine itself be useless if rogue was missing cos she is so important? i think not. she is not even inportant enough to affect the machine itself. just get another mutant from elsewhere to enhance the main group. just as long as its under the mighty title of 'x-men', theres no problem.

kill off rogue? beast? cyclops?barely any of them would make a ripple in the marvel u. now kill off spidey, wolverine, hulk and actually killing off cap...these have or would rock the marvel u. dont kid yourself that any of the xmen are that important outside their own book. even when thor was killed off for a time it was significant, cos his prescence if he was around during wwh or civil war would have dramatically changed the face of the marvel u whatever side he was on. would cap have lost? would wwh even have
got as far as it did? would thousands of lives be saved?

iron man in regards to power ups? ? fact is, iron man can POWER himself up anytime like he did in wwh, so he is never depowered as long as technology exists. you say hulk can take his head off, yet the guy came up with an asgardian powered armour to go toe to toe with king thor. and wwh. heck ...he lasted longer against wwh than the ENTIRE x-men did. and he didnt end up crippled like some of the x-men either. if the story called for it he could probably whip up a cosmic powered doohickey to take on god almighty himself.

'extremis'? from what i gather this gave stark a healing factor to rival wolvie ( he even challenged wolverine to see who would recover first if they attacked each other) , made him a human computer, enhanced speed and reaction times and practically made him iron man all the time due to the armour being stored within his bones. good for any sneak attacks. no lugging some suitcase around. even hulk is vulnerable when he is banner. even thor i vulnerable when blake. even colossus is vulnerable in human form. not such a bad upgrade. as for wondy, name big feats wonder man has done in his ionic form compared to what he did in his human form to see when he was most powerful. here, this'll help ya:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t361853.html

wwh? you see hulk IS wwh. the persona and power is already within current hulk. he will be back at some stage. he is another hulk personality like green hulk or savage hulk. when you have superman vs hulk discussions now, people would take the STRONGEST hulk incarnation as an example as to why he would beat supes. they wouldnt use the weakest. marvel can use wwh anytime they want. make him appear to take on anyone they want. he is there everytime you see current hulk. ya just cant see him.like grey, savage...etc). they have all come back , so will wwh. there are a lot of wwh loose ends hanging around to tie up also.a fan of a character cannot say their character can beat hulk unlesss you put the STRONGEST hulk up as an equation.i.e wwh. the power of wwh is contained within current hulk. they are not two seperate people.

iron man and hulk, two examples of heroes who basically have no upper limits to their power. (in iron mans case power source dependent.)

as for spidey i explained this alread. spidey does not have to be the most POWERFUL, the fact that he is arguably the most POPULAR guy in comics trumps that. he beat firelord, and juggernaut without any enhancements. he dont need 'em. hs is POPULAR. and he is now an avenger, so if like i said him and wolverine were in any other future jla/avengers crossover, they wouldnt be allowed to lose and would beat anyone less popular put in front of them. that makes them more powerful than powering them up with the power cosmic. remember wolvie and lobo? i rest my case. now him and wolvie are avengers...so yeah jla/avengers would be VERY different now. two of the most popular comicbook heroes who would never have been on the team pre jla/avengers. i think this is intentional by marvel. its not like avengers needed these fairly low powered guys.

wolvie can take out iron man? yes, read my paragraph above. cos he is so popular he would certainly give old ironman a tussle, maybe even win in a comicbook. despite the fact iron man wouldl have to FORGET the fact he can fly ( so wolvie cant touch him), forget the fact he could blast the skin off wolverine bones from a mile away. forget the fact to stay out of arms length from a guy with foot long adamantium claws. forget the fact he knows all about wolverines powers and weaknesses, forget the fact he can use long range sonics and magnetism to attack wolvie forget the fact he could dump an entire building on wolvie to incapacitate him forget the fact he can freeze wolvie solid from distance with his freon beam, forget the fact he could use his tractor beam to haul wolvie off into space and dump him there without even going near him...etc etc etc etc...

we all know that despite all this, wolverine would probably still thrash iron man within an inch of his life just like x-men say, taking down the living tribunal . not power. cos of POPULARITY. the strongest force in comics.

[XPac]

marvel 'no longer cares' about such? marvel used to revel in their reputation of having lower powered more human heroes. the fact we have sentry level guys appearing nearly every month seems to me that marvel are changing their stance....

It's not that marvel no longer cares... it's more that I don't think they ever cared.

These marvel vs. DC things really only happend on any major scale like twice. And it's maybe once every ten years or so. I just have trouble imagining Marvel losing sleep over their side (in the opinions of some) being less powerful. And even IF Dc is more powerful (again, an arguable point), the fact that marvel can fight a more powerful group on a relatively even playing field arguably makes them look better from a different perspective.

Marvel beats DC in the ways that actually count, anyways.

I do think we're seeing more PC Supermen clones in marvel (something I'm not a fan of, as I've already mentioned), but I just doubt it has anything to do with some inferiority complex with DC.

[weapon-smith]

It's not that marvel no longer cares... it's more that I don't think they ever cared.

These marvel vs. DC things really only happend on any major scale like twice. And it's maybe once every ten years or so. I just have trouble imagining Marvel losing sleep over their side (in the opinions of some) being less powerful. And even IF Dc is more powerful (again, an arguable point), the fact that marvel can fight a more powerful group on a relatively even playing field arguably makes them look better from a different perspective.

Marvel beats DC in the ways that actually count, anyways.

I do think we're seeing more PC Supermen clones in marvel (something I'm not a fan of, as I've already mentioned), but I just doubt it has anything to do with some inferiority complex with DC.


of course marvel cared . from when stan lee started marvel as we know it, he created less powerful more HUMAN heroes. less or no capes. thats why marvel became so popular. guy said so himself. while dc had superman blowing out suns, marvel had hulk being choked out by snake. you say superman 'clones' in marvel are not about inferiority complexes, but dont seem to care that they are appearing out the blue. i imagine if dc had 4/5 young heroes that had spider like abilities just appearing out the blue you also wouldnt see anything wrong with it?:rolleyes:

dont kid yourself about marvel not 'caring' about losing to other companies heroes. when i see spidey or wolverine or the entire x-men having the crap being beaten out of them by another comic comapnies heroes, i will agree with you.

ever see it happen? and wolvie was up against a guy who can destroy planets!

yes crossovers are 'once in a blue moon'. so you would expect a company to give their character a good showing...after all its not like say two characters from the same company who can have a rematch months later. when supes beat thor. thats it. no rematch anytime soon if ever., so if ya gonna do it, make it count.

its about 'protecting the product'. if say batman made spidey his b*tch in a crossover...you really saying it wouldnt hurt the spidey character in sales and marketability? you really saying marvel wouldnt care? it wouldnt be saying batman is a bigger and better character? to me its like when two great actors appear in a film and both get top billing with their names both being equal on the billboards, neither one above the other.

dont say that marvel 'wouldnt care' they have to or suffer in the pocket.

look up/google why avengers/jla 1983 didnt happen and why jim shooter vetoed it. the answers are there...........

[XPac]

of course marvel cared . from when stan lee started marvel as we know it, he created less powerful more HUMAN heroes. less or no capes. thats why marvel became so popular. while dc had superman blowing out suns, marvel had hulk being choked out by snake. you say superman 'clones' in marvel are not about inferiority complexes, but dont seem to care that they are appearing out the blue. i imagine if dc had 4/5 young heroes that had spider like abilities just appearing out the blue you also wouldnt see anything wrong with it?:rolleyes:

dont kid yourself about marvel not 'caring' about losing to other companies heroes. when i see spidey or wolverine or the entire x-men having the crap being beaten out of them by another comic comapnies heroes, i will agree with you.

ever see it happen? and wolvie was up against a guy who can destroy planets!

yes crossovers are 'once in a blue moon'. so you would expect a company to give their character a good showing...after all its not like say two characters from the same company who can have a rematch months later. when supes beat thor. thats it. no rematch anytime soon if ever., so if ya gonna do it, make it count.

its about 'protecting the product'. if say batman made spidey his b*tch in a crossover...you really saying it wouldnt hurt the spidey character in sales and marketability? it wouldnt be saying batman is a bigger and better character? to me its like when two great actors appear in a film and both get top billing with their names both being equal on the billboards, neither one above the other.

dont say that marvel 'wouldnt care' they have to or suffer in the pocket.

FIrstly marvel didn't actually lose to DC in any of their cross overs. Both events had them coming off about even.

And secondly, marvel beats DC in sales. I think that's all they really care about. A single event that occurs maybe once every 10 years, where Marvel usually ends up tied with DC, isn't really something I think either company takes anywhere near as seriously as you seem to.

[weapon-smith]

FIrstly marvel didn't actually lose to DC in any of their cross overs. Both events had them coming off about even.

And secondly, marvel beats DC in sales. I think that's all they really care about. A single event that occurs maybe once every 10 years, where Marvel usually ends up tied with DC, isn't really something I think either company takes anywhere near as seriously as you seem to.

marvels Strongest fastest and toughest heroes lost. essentially the top dogs. who cares if hawkeye beat captain atom or she hulk whomping aquaman. c list nonsense. blue beetle vs black panther woo-wee. did anyone give a crap? i didnt see messageboards crammed to the rafters with talk of these battles. supes beating hulk. thats where MONEY and REPUTATION lie.

there is a reason why the thor/superman hulk/superman spidey/batman battles are on covers mate. to SELL. atom vs ant man yeah thatll sell bundles...

yes when ya factor in marvel winning the LESSER wins in crossover battles yeah ya could say they came out even. dc's top 3 won or were not shown to lose.

anyway...lets stick to same company heroes for a moment. would people accept say squirrel girl beating wolverine? spidey? she has beaten thanos and doom. CANON. yeah sure....according to you though its OKAY if some other companies heroes beat the most popular heroes of another and no-one cares. marvel wouldnt mind.

:rolleyes:

[tjarvis]

marvels Strongest fastest and toughest heroes lost. essentially the top dogs. who cares if hawkeye beat captain atom or she hulk whomping aquaman. c list nonsense. blue beetle vs black panther woo-wee. did anyone give a crap? i didnt see messageboards crammed to the rafters with talk of these battles. supes beating hulk. thats where MONEY and REPUTATION lie.

there is a reason why the thor/superman hulk/superman spidey/batman battles are on covers mate. to SELL. atom vs ant man yeah thatll sell bundles...

yes when ya factor in marvel winning the LESSER wins in crossover battles yeah ya could say they came out even. dc's top 3 won or were not shown to lose.

anyway...lets stick to same company heroes for a moment. would people accept say squirrel girl beating wolverine? spidey? she has beaten thanos and doom. CANON. yeah sure....according to you though its OKAY if some other companies heroes beat the most popular heroes of another and no-one cares. marvel wouldnt mind.

:rolleyes:

If you're talking about the Marvel vs. DC series by Ron Marz, the only reason Marvel did that was because of money. And if for some reason they did care about whose heroes are stronger, then they should be happy that their company beat DC's with a score of 6-5.

[weapon-smith]

If you're talking about the Marvel vs. DC series by Ron Marz, the only reason Marvel did that was because of money. And if for some reason they did care about whose heroes are stronger, then they should be happy that their company beat DC's with a score of 6-5.

superman beat hulk
batman beat cap

these were the battles that the series were sold on. the battles that dominated messageboards for months afterwards. read what i said about no-one giving a crap about minor battles.

also this series backs up what i said about POPULARITY. wolvie beat lobo.storm beat wonder woman.

nuff said.

look people are misinterpreting what i sadi. i mean that marvel came off second best to dc in jla/avengers not just iin terms of fights, but the fact marvel was called a hellhole. a 'small world' thor a small god..no comebacks. the dc heroes having the brighter shinier universe with a populace that adored the heroes instead of mistrusting them. the fact. the fact that the dcu earth was supposedly 'bigger'. marvel looked like crap. marvel heroes being manhandled by supes and wonder woman. even hercules beinhg humiliated in front of his own gods like some b*tch. most of the dc victories involved some kind of marvel humiliation. in the end the last issue even had a dc character on the cover. yeah it was supes, but pardon me for being under the impression that there were at least 11 other major characters involved. why not cap and supes last men standin?. this wasnt an issue of action comics.

[Venom Melendez]

FIrstly marvel didn't actually lose to DC in any of their cross overs. Both events had them coming off about even.

And secondly, marvel beats DC in sales. I think that's all they really care about. A single event that occurs maybe once every 10 years, where Marvel usually ends up tied with DC, isn't really something I think either company takes anywhere near as seriously as you seem to.

Exactly, the only ones who care are the fans that make a big deal out of it.

[amazoniansrule]

The Blue Marvel is powerful/AntiMan is powerful. end of story

[weapon-smith]

"FIrstly marvel didn't actually lose to DC in any of their cross overs. Both events had them coming off about even.

And secondly, marvel beats DC in sales. I think that's all they really care about. A single event that occurs maybe once every 10 years, where Marvel usually ends up tied with DC, isn't really something I think either company takes anywhere near as seriously as you seem to."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



so because a big event is RARE or infrequent its unimportant? THATS your answer?

oooooooookay.


dc may as well give up their "crisis" events for good the according to you. who wants to read about some MAJOR top-selling fanboy event coming along every few years? new james bond? who gives a toss? last guy came along so long ago the general public couldnt even give a crap about new guy. etc.......

did you take into account that huge projects like this take years to bring together?

also just disregard what i said about the outcomes of the marvel/dc 'ties' that you state dc/marvel 'tied'.. yeah one way to win an argument. a supes beating thor is not equatable to a black panther beating a blue beetle.

yeah i can just imagine another jla/avengers 10 years after the last one. what a fanboy turn-off money loser. :rolleyes:

[XPac]

"FIrstly marvel didn't actually lose to DC in any of their cross overs. Both events had them coming off about even.

And secondly, marvel beats DC in sales. I think that's all they really care about. A single event that occurs maybe once every 10 years, where Marvel usually ends up tied with DC, isn't really something I think either company takes anywhere near as seriously as you seem to."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



so because a big event is RARE or infrequent its unimportant? THATS your answer?

oooooooookay.


dc may as well give up their "crisis" events for good the according to you. who wants to read about some MAJOR top-selling fanboy event coming along every few years? new james bond? who gives a toss? last guy came along so long ago the general public couldnt even give a crap about new guy. etc.......

did you take into account that huge projects like this take years to bring together?

also just disregard what i said about the outcomes of the marvel/dc 'ties' that you state dc/marvel 'tied'.. yeah one way to win an argument. a supes beating thor is not equatable to a black panther beating a blue beetle.

yeah i can just imagine another jla/avengers 10 years after the last one. what a fanboy turn-off money loser. :rolleyes:

Wow... we're actually still talking about this.

Look, if you feel it's important who beats whom in a cross over event, that's fine. But Marvel and DC I'm sure mutually agreed to the story. So I very much doubt it mattered to them that much if some of their characters lost.

If you're imagining Joe Q sitting around ordering more powerful characters to be created so that Marvel can do better in the next marvel/dc crossover I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Xero]

i for one am pleased that there is finally a black superman type hero finally.......

Yeah its not like Icon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_(comics)) hasn't been around for over 15 years.

[amazoniansrule]

I am really anxious to learn about antiman as well.

[Venom Melendez]

Yeah its not like Icon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_(comics)) hasn't been around for over 15 years.

Well yeah but he's not used all that much

I am really anxious to learn about antiman as well.

Word, hopefully we'll learn more about him come next issue.

[superion]

Wonder man is his ionic form is more powerful,no if's and's or but's about it.


Is Wonder man really less powerful now than in the Ionic energy form he previously had? He can still fly and I don't see where he's any weaker. His invulnerability level might be the only thing that took a hit. I can't think of any additional powers he may have lost.

I just like the energy form better because it gave him a distinctive look.

[RolandJP]

perhaps another Contest of Champions is in order.

That way, a cosmic level pecking order is established.

I would love to see a Blue Marvel vs the Champion bout--(Marvel 2 in 1 annual) ref.

[Samuraixsithlord]

Blue Marvel>>>>>>>>>>Sentry.

I hope this guy sticks around.

He should team up with Gravity and Freedom Ring (back from the dead).

[weapon-smith]

Wow... we're actually still talking about this.

Look, if you feel it's important who beats whom in a cross over event, that's fine. But Marvel and DC I'm sure mutually agreed to the story. So I very much doubt it mattered to them that much if some of their characters lost.

If you're imagining Joe Q sitting around ordering more powerful characters to be created so that Marvel can do better in the next marvel/dc crossover I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

well cant fault me for stating facts.

1) marvel DID and still are experiencing a backlash from jla/avengers.

http://www.marvel.com/blogs//entry/846

2) marvel have added a superman copy to their team since. fact

3) marvel now have the two most popular heroes in comics on the roster . heroes people thought would NEVER be avengers prior jla/avengers. fact

4)there wont be another crossover on the horizon due in part to politics. fact.

http://www.mania.com/marvel-comics-joe-quesada_article_25357.html

made my point. if you have had enough fine. until you come back with something of substance, i'll see you around.

goodbye.

[XPac]

well cant fault me for stating facts.

1) marvel DID and still are experiencing a backlash from jla/avengers.

http://www.marvel.com/blogs//entry/846

2) marvel have added a superman copy to their team since. fact

3) marvel now have the two most popular heroes in comics on the roster . heroes people thought would NEVER be avengers prior jla/avengers. fact

4)there wont be another crossover on the horizon due in part to politics. fact.

http://www.mania.com/marvel-comics-joe-quesada_article_25357.html

made my point. if you have had enough fine. until you come back with something of substance, i'll see you around.

goodbye.

Those are facts... they're just not facts which demonstrate that marvel created Supermen clones so they could do better against DC in a future cross over.

That arguement is all your opinion... nothing wrong with that, but it's not something you can go around selling as fact.

[weapon-smith]

Those are facts... they're just not facts which demonstrate that marvel created Supermen clones so they could do better against DC in a future cross over.

That arguement is all your opinion... nothing wrong with that, but it's not something you can go around selling as fact.

:rolleyes:

yeah just skip over the *fact* that a big superstrong superspeed invulnerable caped hero with a mild mannered alter ego a big s on his costume and a super dog(!), who is supposed to be the worlds greatest hero of all was put on the avengers.

yeah just ignore the *fact* that sentry was around in 2000, but was just some minor character out of continuity then all of a sudden out of the blue in 2005, this minor character was conveniently put in continuity, given a big PUSH as the next big thing after being in limbo for 5 years and given his own mini. you do know jla/avengers ended in 2004 don'cha?

just ignore the *fact* that something that made so much money and sales has mysteriousluy ENDED any talks of any more crossovers. if this was about MONEY as some have said, whats the problem?

just ignore the *fact* that tom brevoort has said in the link that supes beating thor caused a sh*tstorm among fans.

yeah i'm sure your right, if any future team up of the 'bigguns' (jla/avengers) ever happens, sentry vs superman wouldnt be a major factor in evening the odds :rolleyes:

oh well, at least ya admitted marvel created SUPERMAN CLONES. thats about all i take from your posts.

[Alan2099]

:rolleyes:

yeah just skip over the *fact* that a big superstrong superspeed invulnerable caped hero with a mild mannered alter ego a big s on his costume and a super dog(!), who is supposed to be the worlds greatest hero of all was put on the avengers.

yeah just ignore the fact that sentry was around in 2000, but was just some minor character out of continuity then all of a sudden out of the blue in 2005, this minor character was conveniently put in continuity, given a big PUSH as the next big thing after being in limbo for 5 years. you do know jla/avengers ended in 2004 don'cha?

just ignore the fact that something that made so much money and sales has mysteriousluy ENDED any talks of any more crossovers. if this was about MONEY as some have said, whats the problem?

just ignore the fact that tom brevoort has said in the link that supes beating thor caused a sh*tstorm among fans.
Okay. Consider it ignored.

yeah i'm sure your right, if any future team up of the 'bigguns' (jla/avengers) ever happens, sentry vs superman wouldnt be a major factor in evening the odds :rolleyes:
nah. Batman would just stare down Sentry and he'd go hide in a corner and cry again.

oh well, at least ya admitted marvel created SUPERMAN CLONES.
Yeah, but Marvel creates everything clones. They love their clones.

[weapon-smith]

at least bring something sensible to the debate instead of nonsensical "jokes" which aint saying jack.

think i'll ignore your post completely.


next!

[amazoniansrule]

ok Now back TO THE COMIC. Im guessing that Kevin G gave Adam a history at least of having met Black Panther's father. Also he appears to tangle with Namor.

So many different ways to go with this.

[XPac]

:rolleyes:

yeah just skip over the *fact* that a big superstrong superspeed invulnerable caped hero with a mild mannered alter ego a big s on his costume and a super dog(!), who is supposed to be the worlds greatest hero of all was put on the avengers.

yeah just ignore the *fact* that sentry was around in 2000, but was just some minor character out of continuity then all of a sudden out of the blue in 2005, this minor character was conveniently put in continuity, given a big PUSH as the next big thing after being in limbo for 5 years and given his own mini. you do know jla/avengers ended in 2004 don'cha?

just ignore the *fact* that something that made so much money and sales has mysteriousluy ENDED any talks of any more crossovers. if this was about MONEY as some have said, whats the problem?

just ignore the *fact* that tom brevoort has said in the link that supes beating thor caused a sh*tstorm among fans.

yeah i'm sure your right, if any future team up of the 'bigguns' (jla/avengers) ever happens, sentry vs superman wouldnt be a major factor in evening the odds :rolleyes:

oh well, at least ya admitted marvel created SUPERMAN CLONES. thats about all i take from your posts.

I don't ignore any of those things... it's just that none of them actually state that they're building supermen clones so that they'll do better in the next marvel/dc cross over.

[RolandJP]

ok Now back TO THE COMIC. Im guessing that Kevin G gave Adam a history at least of having met Black Panther's father. Also he appears to tangle with Namor.

So many different ways to go with this.



I Like That idea. also, A nice restoring of his superhero status by President Obama would be nice too.

Maybe with a new costume redesigned by Alex Ross or Oliver Coipel

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I Like That idea. also, A nice restoring of his superhero status by President Obama would be nice too.

Maybe with a new costume redesigned by Alex Ross or Oliver Coipel

Excelsior, The artist of the series Mat Broome will be designing a new costume for him to wear in the modern age, according to series author Kevin Grievoux on Newsarama's forum.

[XPac]

I Like That idea. also, A nice restoring of his superhero status by President Obama would be nice too.

Maybe with a new costume redesigned by Alex Ross or Oliver Coipel

I'll bet the redesign will be to show some skin so that he can publically be acknowledged as black. Probably a half mask, or no mask.

That said, I like full masks. I hope that stays. I know they gave BP a half mask in the past (and in the Ultimate Avengers movie). To me it just didn't look as cool.

[Alan2099]

at least bring something sensible to the debate instead of nonsensical "jokes" which aint saying jack.
I said about as much as you did. Well, at least when it comes to ideas that make sense.

And since when is this all a debate?

think i'll ignore your post completely.
Says the guy that made a post directly quoting what i had already said.

I'll bet the redesign will be to show some skin so that he can publically be acknowledged as black. Probably a half mask, or no mask.

That said, I like full masks. I hope that stays. I know they gave BP a half mask in the past (and in the Ultimate Avengers movie). To me it just didn't look as cool.
Maybe a full mask and exposed arms? That could work.

[Frostbite883]

not to mention new people like ares.

BTW, Ares is not a new character. The Marvel Comics version of Ares
appeared in Thor (vol. 1) #129 of June 1966.

[Frostbite883]

Yeah its not like Icon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_(comics)) hasn't been around for over 15 years.

I think he (probably) means that an actual black superman type hero
have now been created for people to relate to.

Well, at least for certain people to relate, anyway.

[mikekerr3]

I Like That idea. also, A nice restoring of his superhero status by President Obama would be nice too.

Maybe with a new costume redesigned by Alex Ross or Oliver Coipel

The idea that Obana could restore his Super-hero status is a abomination in and of it's self, What does any president really morally have to say about it.. The excutive order was a crime from the start.