Mutant League 01/13/09 AM Game 3: Greg Anderson & justinkos91 vs. Psy J

[mattbib]

Greeting fight fans! Welcome to the first fight of the day!

As this is our second day, a few words on voting:

All voters should vote solely on a team's strategy. It is up to the participants to convince voters via their strategy that their team will win the match. While participants may agrue, the only subsequent information voters may take into consideration is proof that something in either strategy could/should not happen. Proof should be in the form of a reference, not an opinion, and may be provided by any League participant or voter. There is no need for participants to argue timelines, pick apart strategies or post pages of circular arguments. Again, you are voting on the strategies, not follow-up arguments. Voters should think for themselves based on the strategy and refuted facts.

Also, voting should not be based on any potential that characters possess or on any other moves that a voter might want to interject on their own. All voters should feel free to comment on why they've voted for a specific team.

NOTE: To prevent unfair ballot-stuffing, only votes from posters with 50 or more posts will be counted. Additionally, votes from posters with matching IP addresses will be disqualified. NO EXCEPTIONS. Teams with two or more participants will only be allowed one vote in any match. If more than one member of a team votes in a match, only the first vote from that team will be counted.

While encouraging friends or family to vote in the tournament is allowed, encouraging others to vote specifically for you is against the rules and is grounds for disqualification. Friends and family are expected to read both strategies and make a decision based on what is presented; not based on allegiance to a particular participant. All voting should be done without bias.
__________________________________________________ _____________

And now on to our fight...

In the first corner we have Greg Anderson & justinkos91's X-FACTION:
Siryn, Threnody, Longshot, Domino, Forge, Skids, Bishop

vs

In the other corner is Psy J's I SHALL DEFEAT YOU AT THE MONORAIL:
Storm, X-23, Leech, Hub, Havok, Moonstar, King Bedlam

Both participants have submitted strategies:

Please do not post or vote until both strategies have been posted and read.

[mattbib]

I shall defeat you in The Frozen Wasteland

Phase 1: Preparation:

- The group remains close together. Out of caution, Skid's throws up a force-field, and "I shall Defeat You at the Monorail" arrives. The force-field Skids summons surrounds the entire team. They all grab each other, Domino holding onto Bishop's non-mechanic arm, Longshot grabbing on to Domino's free arm, and basically a line is formed with the team members, with Skids at the end keeping her shield up. Bishop then pushes the button on his mechanical arm and they teleport to 25 minutes earlier, to the time before any of the opponents appear.
- While there, they go inside an archway, since Bishop's arm was an invention of Forge's, Forge borrows some parts of the arm and adds them on to his current gun, making a new neutralizer gun, using his ability to see as no other man can see; the workings of all things mechanical and to understand how they operate from the simplest devices to the greatest of machines work. Forge keeps the time machine in Bishop's arm, since he is the mechanical genius present, and with the luck of Longshot, they finish right when the other team arrives and exit the archway; things falling into place for them with the perfect timing. Skids puts up her shield and they stand together, waiting for them to attack, united they stand.

Skids can put her forcefield around others:
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotli...10&fldAuto=123

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/BishopTimeTravel.jpg
Phase 2: Punishment

- They all then go under Skids' shield, link arms and port 5 minutes into the future, since the other team did not expect it, throwing off the opponents attacks, making what they had done pointless. They then reappear with the other team not expecting their attack, putting down her sdield, releasing everyone, minus Threnody, and Siryn then lets out a loud, sonic scream, disorientating the opponents, and deafening them as she blew out their ear-drums, screaming as hard as she can, despite the bitter coldness.
- Threnody summons the frozen corpses of the antarctic on X-23, Hub, King Bedlam, Leech, Havok, Storm and Moonstar while they are disoriented by the sonic scream. With Storm being surrounded by the corpses, being held down and trapped, her claustrophobia kicked in and she panicked, many zombies blown off of her and the winds and lightning are summoned.
- Bishop runs up to Storm, absorbing her energies and weakening her severely, his arm acting as a lightning-rod. Storm collapses to the ground and the zombies surround her, stockpiling on top of her. Threnody calls them off of her and absorbs the death and pain energies from the zombies and releases them on to Storm.

[1 Down, 6 Left.]

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/BishopRogue.jpghttp://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/SiphonedPain.jpg

- Threnody has the crowd of Corpse-Zombies surround the conscious members, each one that is killed again, Threnody absorbs their death energies and brings them back. With Siryn deafening the other team earlier and the opposition fighting off the corpse-zombies, Bishop takes advantage of this and sneaks up behind Havok and punches him in the face with his mechanical arm, busting his jaw. Though Havok tries to retaliate with his plasma beams, all Bishop can do is absorb them as he moves closer and closer to Alex. Bishop then has the tentacles from his mechanical arm constrict themself around Havok's neck, choking him, until he passes out from the lack of oxygen.

- X-23 is cutting through the zombie-corpses with no problem and with her heading in Skids' direction in hopes of taking out Threnody, the source of the corpse-zombies, and Skids, the one protecting Threnody. Forge still remains in the archway, hidden and unseen and fires the neutralizer gun built earlier at X-23, taking away her powers, which means no healing factor. Bishop runs over to X-23, sneaking up behind her and grabs hold of her claws. Combined with the energy he absorbed from Havok and Storm, Bishop channels the absorbed energy into X-23, electrocuting her and taking her out.
- Amongst the chaos, Leech gets grabbed from behind by some of the mindless zombies and squeeze until all he is out of air and remains uncoinscious.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/01LightningBishop.jpg

[4 Down, 3 Left.]

- With Hub, I would expect her to teleport out of the Fray of Corpse-Zombies, so, Siryn uses her powers to dampen out sounds to hear where Hub would teleport next. She hears where Hub lands next, which is somewhere not that far behind her. Siryn points out Longshot to where she is, since she has been deafened and can't hear a thing. He flings a few blades in her direction and there is a thump; They approach Hub's body where she is taken out. At that moment, Longshot and Domino take on Dani, she targets both of their minds, but then Forge shoots her with the neutralizer, using it again, the two being used as a distraction and things falling in place for the two.

[6 Down, 1 Left.]

- Skids puts down her shield and tells Threnody to get the dead off of King Bedlam. Skids slides across the frozen ground on with the help of her slippery force-field and as the group of zombies back off, Skids punches King Bedlam in the face, though he retaliates and Skids is knocked off balance, Siryn then blasts him really hard with a sonic lance (Sonic energies focused into one powerful beam) and Domino then shoots him in the knees so he can't walk. Threnody then takes his pain and converts it into energy and knocks him out.

[All 7 Down.]

* Many people have died in Antarctica, so there is a source of the dead for Threnody. With the Savage land nearby, there have been the deaths of warriors there, savage land mutates, skrulls, and the odd people have died there too, if you've ever read Uncanny X-men #250 as the most familiar scenario with human death.

Warmth:
- Siryn is kept warm due to her costume covering most of her up, and the cape.
- Threnody and Skids are under Skids' shield a lot of the fight.
- Bishop absorbs the cold.
- Forge spends a lot of time in the archway.
- Domino and Longshot, they'll be lucky not to freeze.

[mattbib]

PHASE 1

As soon as the battle begins, King Bedlam creates psychic static in Forge and Longshot's brains while Dani Moonstar projects brutal nightmares into the minds of Domino and Siryn. Simultaneously, Havok uses his powers to carve an impassable crevasse into the ground, dividing the battlefield and making Team ISDYATM! (Moonstar and Bedlam, in particular) inaccessible to the majority of their opponents.

Hub teleports Leech and X-23 over to Threnody, then quickly runs away. Leech uses his power-negating abilities to disable Threnody and X-23 slashes her throat, killing her instantly without giving her the opportunity to feed off of the energy of her own impending death. Threnody is defeated.

While Threnody is being handled by Hub, X-23, and Leech, Storm utilizes the arctic air to flash freeze Bishop and Skids, encasing them in ice and leaving them incapable of engaging in battle. Bishop and Skids are defeated.

PHASE 2

The moment after she freezes Bishop, Storm takes to the skies and sets her sights on Siryn. Still crippled by Moonstar's terrifying visions, Storm electrocutes Siryn with ease, removing her from battle. Siryn is defeated.

Immediately after taking down Threnody, Hub transports X-23 and Leech to Longshot. Leech and Hub quickly teleport back to team ISDYATM!'s area of the battlefield while X-23 enters into combat with Longshot. Because he has just watched four of his teammates fall before him, Longshot starts to lose hope and his probability-altering powers begin to falter. During the course of their duel, X-23 inflicts significant damage upon Longshot, leaving him critically injured. With a swift swipe of her claw, X-23 removes Longshot's mullet, letting the icy winds carry away his ratty, blonde locks. Longshot is defeated.

PHASE 3

Hub drops Leech off at a safe, remote area before transporting herself and Havok to Forge, who is still rendered mentally incompetent by King Bedlam's telepathic assault. Havok blasts Forge with a minimally powerful burst of energy, knocking him to the ground, unconscious. Forge is defeated.

After teleporting Havok to Forge, Hub immediately picks up X-23 (who has just bested Longshot) and takes her to Domino. Although skilled in hand-to-hand combat, she is no match for bred assassin X-23, especially while simultaneously being plagued by Dani's psychic nightmares. After a short battle, X-23 defeats Domino.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Quick Q - can Hub teleport Leech without his powers preventing it?

[Psy J]

Quick Q - can Hub teleport Leech without his powers preventing it?

Yes, because (1) Hub does not to be in super-close proximity to those whom she teleports, and (2) Leech has gained better control over his power-dampening abilities so that he doesn't automatically deactivate the powers of everyone around him (like in X-Men 3, for example).

[Kid Icarus]

Yes, because (1) Hub does not to be in super-close proximity to those whom she teleports, and (2) Leech has gained better control over his power-dampening abilities so that he doesn't automatically deactivate the powers of everyone around him (like in X-Men 3, for example).

For a reference
I think we could see his control in the 198 miniseries

[The Fury]

For a reference
I think we could see his control in the 198 miniseries

You are right, he's been able to control it for years and would be a huge hinderance on the team that chose him if you start all depowered.

In 198 he was not only standign near everyone in the 198 camp but also next to Mr M while he changed *insert unknown object* into butterflies. Best example I can remember from the series.

This shouldn't be an issue.

*reading strategies now*

[worstblogever]

Wondering what the zombie corpses of the Antarctic would consist of... don't know that they're be too many, and if there were, they'd be trapped in the ice a la Captain America, by the time the competition hits, wouldn't they?


If we're talking zombie penguins, though, that's a whole other thing, and my interest in them is piqued.

[HellFrost]

Wondering what the zombie corpses of the Antarctic would consist of... don't know that they're be too many, and if there were, they'd be trapped in the ice a la Captain America, by the time the competition hits, wouldn't they?


If we're talking zombie penguins, though, that's a whole other thing, and my interest in them is piqued.

Exactly. I can't imagine her Zombies being able to even get to the surface in time. I also think that Leech negating everyones powers is kind of a big deal... especially considering that Skids' shield would go down immediately.

I feel that Psy J's strat better counters what the other team is doing.

Also, Bishop can't just press the button and the device would automatically know if it's going back or furthr in time. Doesn't the coordinates have to be inputted.

On top of all that, I feel the other team's strat depends too much on ISDYATM's entire team geting over there.

While creative, their team just can't counter Psy J's all that well, IMO.

[Jack Flash]

Wondering what the zombie corpses of the Antarctic would consist of... don't know that they're be too many, and if there were, they'd be trapped in the ice a la Captain America, by the time the competition hits, wouldn't they?


If we're talking zombie penguins, though, that's a whole other thing, and my interest in them is piqued.

well in the picture that bib provided it doesn't look like the base is sitting on ice, rather rock and dirt. It's visible in the picture from the road area, but I dunno how many corpses there would be in that said dirt, but it does appear to be on dirt. :smile:

[worstblogever]

Not to mention, Storm freaks out about said antarctic zombies, and lashes out to accidentally charge up Bishop? Her claustrophobia's gotten a lot better, like when Masque used it as a tactic against her in "The Extremists", right? It backfired on him, then, if I recall.

And at the end... Bishop can absorb cold weather? That's an interesting trick, in theory, but I don't think Lucas has ever shown this as a power feat, has he? If I'm wrong, please cite an issue, I gotta see that. He needs as many tricks as he can get while baby-huntin'.

[worstblogever]

well in the picture that bib provided it doesn't look like the base is sitting on ice, rather rock and dirt. It's visible in the picture from the road area, but I dunno how many corpses there would be in that said dirt, but it does appear to be on dirt. :smile:

Odds are, what little dirt there is would be frozen tundra, and likely not a veritable graveyard, though.

I like Threnody pulling in zombies and all, but I don't think this setting is the best one for the move. But if it's zombie penguins, I'm 100% in support of this move.

[darknessatnoon]

Not to mention, Storm freaks out about said antarctic zombies, and lashes out to accidentally charge up Bishop? Her claustrophobia's gotten a lot better, like when Masque used it as a tactic against her in "The Extremists", right? It backfired on him, then, if I recall.

And at the end... Bishop can absorb cold weather? That's an interesting trick, in theory, but I don't think Lucas has ever shown this as a power feat, has he? If I'm wrong, please cite an issue, I gotta see that. He needs as many tricks as he can get while baby-huntin'.

Bishop can absorb cold weather.

Remember the issue of X-Treme X-Men where they were all wearing the Kordey rubber snow suits? He was able to obtain a charge from all the snow flakes hitting his skin.

[PhoenixBoyX]

I don't necessarily know what to think. I mean, legitimately, we allow for preparation time in general. But, the whole argument here is they don't prepare before the battle, but rather, Greg and Justin's team do during the battle, using time travel tech. I do also have issue with buried Zombie corpses getting to the top in time for this battle - even with the 25 minutes I question. I don't feel you really examine the threat of Leech.

In the regard, I also question whether or not PsyJ really thinks about the threat that Bishop is. As to whether or not Bishop can absorb cold, I will say that as cold is movement of molecules slowing down, how can he absorb a lack of energy and movement? I will have to say any appearance where he does this is just...I dunno...wrong and dumb, and I have to write it off as PIS. While Bishop is a big player, I can realistically accept his defeat here.

However, all things considered, my vote leans towards PsyJ's because I really am iffy about the time travel that the other strategy basically hinges on.

-Nicholas

[PhoenixBoyX]

Bishop can absorb cold weather.

Remember the issue of X-Treme X-Men where they were all wearing the Kordey rubber snow suits? He was able to obtain a charge from all the snow flakes hitting his skin.

If I'm reading your post right, he's not absorbing cold weather. He's absorbing the kinetic energy from the snowflakes hitting his skin. Just like if he was being hit with rocks, he wouldn't absorb the hardness of the rocks, but the energy from them.

-Nicholas

[worstblogever]

Bishop can absorb cold weather.

Remember the issue of X-Treme X-Men where they were all wearing the Kordey rubber snow suits? He was able to obtain a charge from all the snow flakes hitting his skin.

I know he was in the snow in X-Treme X-Men #25, but I don't recall this being mentioned. Other than that, once Kordey took over art duties, I don't recall an instance.

Then again, I think I blacked out all memory of the Kordey/Claremont creative team for my own sanity's sake.

[PhoenixBoyX]

I just wanna add I think both teams did a really good job and I look forward to facing both/either/whateverscorrect/shoes!
-Nicholas

[Joe Acro]

Okay. So, the X-Faction travels back in time 25 minutes, before either team has arrived.

But then, when the other team arrives, future X-Faction is still there. That means there are two X-Faction teams on the field at the same time, both standing with forcefields.

And then they go five minutes into the future. How long after arriving did it take for them to get to the archway? Is five minutes really that noticeable a change in the scheme of things? Or are there again two X-Factions on the field at once, one under the archway preparing to leave, and the other about to make an assault?

I vaguely recall a rule once in Avengers League that Kang wouldn't be able to use time duplicates of himself against enemies. So, I question the legality here.

Also, since Bedlam starts by making Forge's thoughts fuzzy, which would make it quite difficult to make and utilize that neutralizer gun. Unless he doesn't know which team to attack...

[darknessatnoon]

If I'm reading your post right, he's not absorbing cold weather. He's absorbing the kinetic energy from the snowflakes hitting his skin. Just like if he was being hit with rocks, he wouldn't absorb the hardness of the rocks, but the energy from them.

-Nicholas

Well, there's usually no snow in warm weather, so six of one, half dozen of another.

[Dagger]

I know he was in the snow in X-Treme X-Men #25, but I don't recall this being mentioned. Other than that, once Kordey took over art duties, I don't recall an instance.

Then again, I think I blacked out all memory of the Kordey/Claremont creative team for my own sanity's sake.
This issue has him just chillin' out in the snow w/o a coat, absorbing the kinetic energy from the snow hitting his body, and Storm throws like an avalanche of snow on him after he throws a snow ball at her.
http://madtony.com/images/user_images/Xmen311a.jpg

[worstblogever]

Hadn't Forge sworn to not use that Neutralizer Gun. The last time it was even seen, Mystique had stolen it, and shot Wolfsbane with it during her attack on the Muir Isle Facility. I know busting out all toys ever is tempting, but I'd rather have seen Forge make something else, based off of in character writing. At the same time, I can see how it would be hard to not want him to pack this artillery for a strat.

Zombie update: The last human death reported at the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station was an Austrian Astrophysicist in 2000 (http://www.universetoday.com/2008/09/26/astrophysicists-south-pole-death-remains-a-mystery-after-eight-years/), according to the website hosted by the facility. His body was taken to New Zealand for autopsy, before burial well outside the Antarctic. So, as far as zombie potential goes, I'll let anyone else be the judge.

[worstblogever]

This issue has him just chillin' out in the snow w/o a coat, absorbing the kinetic energy from the snow hitting his body, and Storm throws like an avalanche of snow on him after he throws a snow ball at her.
http://madtony.com/images/user_images/Xmen311a.jpg

Absorbing it, and rechannelling to keep himself warm, right?

That's a cute obscure power feat. Points for the guys for reference.

[Dagger]

Absorbing it, and rechannelling to keep himself warm, right?

That's a cute obscure power feat. Points for the guys for reference.
IDK. I don't remember if that was covered in the issue. I just remember him reminiscing about when he and Shard were looking for some Emplates, and he was almost out of bio-energy, and Shard was all like, use the snow hitting yo' body, and BAM! he had enough energy to defeat the Emplates.

[The Fury]

Okay. So, the X-Faction travels back in time 25 minutes, before either team has arrived.

But then, when the other team arrives, future X-Faction is still there. That means there are two X-Faction teams on the field at the same time, both standing with forcefields.

And then they go five minutes into the future. How long after arriving did it take for them to get to the archway? Is five minutes really that noticeable a change in the scheme of things? Or are there again two X-Factions on the field at once, one under the archway preparing to leave, and the other about to make an assault?

I vaguely recall a rule once in Avengers League that Kang wouldn't be able to use time duplicates of himself against enemies. So, I question the legality here.
Which version of time travel are we talking here? There are 3 main theories:

1) Time is linear and cannot change so going back in time to do something cannot change the outcome of the present you left. (negates free will)
2) As soon as you travel back, an alternate reality is created so that free will is not ignored and you can do what you want. The timeline you left continues as normla except you are not there.
3) Same timeline as in 1 but sticks with Free Will so you change the timeline you are in.

Marvel seems to stick with #2. So sticking with normal continuity, that is the time travel we are talking about, so...The team that didn't time travel are still in one time line waiting for bishop and co to appear again but they never will but in an alternate reality there will be 2 bishop teams and Psy J team. In one universe Psy J win, in the other Greg and Justinkos win.... :confused:

[darknessatnoon]

IDK. I don't remember if that was covered in the issue. I just remember him reminiscing about when he and Shard were looking for some Emplates, and he was almost out of bio-energy, and Shard was all like, use the snow hitting yo' body, and BAM! he had enough energy to defeat the Emplates.

I try not to consider Shard as in continuity.

[Mr. Cakes]

I haven't read any comments or debate, so I'm giving my initial neutral opinion:

Greg Anderson & Justin's strat seems a little too assumptuous. Hub could maybe not teleport the entire match (though that's unlikely, still have to take it into account), and Storm might not get freaked out after being swarmed by zombies (what if she's in the air?). I also don't know how I feel about the time warping... it's innovative, but kind of cheap. What I did like was the use of scans and also the part at the end to say how everyone stays warm.

Psy J's strategy had a great opening. Even if Skids uses her powers on the entire team, I don't think they'd be protected from psychic attacks, would they? And Havok's rift in the earth definitely puts a damper on the time attack... even if they teleport 5 minutes in the future, the earth will still be split, having any non-fliers some difficulty reaching the opposing team. I'm not sure if Hub has to touch people in order to teleport them (I hated her in New Excalibur so I tried to shove her out of my head forever), but if that's the case, she wouldn't be able to teleport Leech. I also don't think the ice would affect Skids in her forcefield. Also, would X-23 really be brutal enough to kill Threnody? The use of Longshot's probability is creative, I dunno if his powers lessen when he loses hope but if they do, then good catch. And LOL @ the mullet.

So right now I'm leaning at Psy J, but I'll have to discuss it with my partner q.u.e.e.n. first.

[PhoenixBoyX]

Well, there's usually no snow in warm weather, so six of one, half dozen of another.

Except there's a flaw in the logic. When you eat a bowl of soup do you eat the hot or the actual contents of broth and noodles and etc? He doesn't absorb cold, because cold isn't a type of energy - it's a state the energy is in. You're right - he can't absorb snow in warm weather. Absolutely a given. But he's not absorbing COLD from the weather around him in that issue. If cold and snow are the same (six of one, half a dozen of the other), that means it is always snowing during cold?

His power allows him to absorb the kinetic impact of the snow. If we're negating the notion of kinetic impact, and we're saying that it isn't necessary, how doesn't he just absorb every energy blast from across the battle field as let's say Cyke blasts it out, or telepathy between two people? We're not talking about absorbing cold. We're talking about absorbing kinetic impact.

-Nicholas, who is really bad at science but doesn't think cold is a type of energy, but that it is a state of the movement of molecules.

[Swashbuckler]

I have to agree with what a lot of others are saying. I'm not a fan of starting the battle off instantly jumping 25 minuts back in time. Bishop's time jumping doesn't ever seem that accurate to me. Also, Forge's neutrilizer was one of his greatest weapons. I think it takes more then 25 minutes for him to create it. Even Bishops familiar arm tech, I just don't see this as possible. And Threody'd corpses in the arctic is a WAY no go by me. Also, Domino and Longshot just getting lucky and staying warm? Not satisfying.

[darknessatnoon]

Except there's a flaw in the logic. When you eat a bowl of soup do you eat the hot or the actual contents of broth and noodles and etc? He doesn't absorb cold, because cold isn't a type of energy - it's a state the energy is in. You're right - he can't absorb snow in warm weather. Absolutely a given. But he's not absorbing COLD from the weather around him in that issue. If cold and snow are the same (six of one, half a dozen of the other), that means it is always snowing during cold?

His power allows him to absorb the kinetic impact of the snow. If we're negating the notion of kinetic impact, and we're saying that it isn't necessary, how doesn't he just absorb every energy blast from across the battle field as let's say Cyke blasts it out, or telepathy between two people? We're not talking about absorbing cold. We're talking about absorbing kinetic impact.

-Nicholas, who is really bad at science but doesn't think cold is a type of energy, but that it is a state of the movement of molecules.

When I eat a bowl of hot soup, I eat the "hot soup."

[Joe Acro]

Which version of time travel are we talking here? There are 3 main theories:

1) Time is linear and cannot change so going back in time to do something cannot change the outcome of the present you left. (negates free will)
2) As soon as you travel back, an alternate reality is created so that free will is not ignored and you can do what you want. The timeline you left continues as normla except you are not there.
3) Same timeline as in 1 but sticks with Free Will so you change the timeline you are in.

Marvel seems to stick with #2. So sticking with normal continuity, that is the time travel we are talking about, so...The team that didn't time travel are still in one time line waiting for bishop and co to appear again but they never will but in an alternate reality there will be 2 bishop teams and Psy J team. In one universe Psy J win, in the other Greg and Justinkos win.... :confused: But they didn't specify the type of time travel in their strategy. Age of Apocalypse went by #3. Cable's and Rachel's history tends to support #2. I've never been sure about Bishop, especially because of Age of Apocalypse.

I'll assume a different possibility than the first post, where I assumed #1. Assume for the moment that this is a #2, then. At some point, both teams are scheduled to arrive. The strategy states that the X-Faction from the (supposedly) alternate future is still around when those teams arrive.

That means there's still two X-Factions on the field at the same time. The X-Faction from this timeline may or may not have the same plan as the one that traveled to the past. Assuming they did have the same plan, they vanish into another reality and the fight is between one X-Faction and one (abbreviated) Monorail.

So, it doesn't matter which version of time travel is being used here.

I'm just curious if the initial two-team defense is legitimate (and it probably is, as I don't recall seeing something specific against it). And, either way, if it would actually affect Monorail's opening attacks.

[worstblogever]

IDK. I don't remember if that was covered in the issue. I just remember him reminiscing about when he and Shard were looking for some Emplates, and he was almost out of bio-energy, and Shard was all like, use the snow hitting yo' body, and BAM! he had enough energy to defeat the Emplates.

Eh, that's really a post battle thing, I'm not gonna get too hung up on it.

On the other side of things, last year, I might've questioned Storm flash-freezing two people that fast, like she does to Skids and Bishop. But she's in Antarctica, and she just froze a weapon in X-Men: Worlds Apart #2 in a split second, before a guy could fire. I could see it here.

I like the chaos that would be caused by the time jumps, but at the same time, after this set-up, Havok's setup of a chasm still would be there when they got back. Follow-ups by Forge seem in character, or Threnody seem effective enough, given the resources. Especially on the Threnody setup for taking Storm out. First, Storm would need to be grounded five minutes down the line in the future. Second, you'd have to produce enough zombies to grab Storm and hold her down without her just blowing them all off with the Arctic wind she seems to be packing in Psy J's strat. And third, you have to hope that zombies make her claustrophobic, even though mobbed by zombies is not the same fear as an enclosed space. A fear which Storm has long gotten over.

It's a hard choice for me, but in the end, while it does lack in detail in comparison to justinkos and Greg A.'s strategy, Psy J's strat seems to hold more respect for character personalities. (X-23 seems pretty okay with killing in current issues where she's slaughtered Purifiers and Deathstrike. Don't see as why she'd hesitate on Threnody as an exception), so I gotta lean toward it, unless Cyberhubbs thinks I'm way off.

[PhoenixBoyX]

Okay. So, the X-Faction travels back in time 25 minutes, before either team has arrived.

But then, when the other team arrives, future X-Faction is still there. That means there are two X-Faction teams on the field at the same time, both standing with forcefields.

And then they go five minutes into the future. How long after arriving did it take for them to get to the archway? Is five minutes really that noticeable a change in the scheme of things? Or are there again two X-Factions on the field at once, one under the archway preparing to leave, and the other about to make an assault?

I vaguely recall a rule once in Avengers League that Kang wouldn't be able to use time duplicates of himself against enemies. So, I question the legality here.


Ouchy brain hurt. Time travel not my friend.

Wait if Bishop is as fickle as he's being written and turns on all of his teammates and tries to kill them cause some time has past.
You know, namely Forge.
J/k for the competition, but that was totally aimed at you X-Writers.
-Nicholas

[Joe Acro]

Ouchy brain hurt. Time travel not my friend.
It's not mine either. I know too much.

[mattbib]

It doesn't really snow at the South Pole, especially during the Antarctic summer (which is when this battle takes place).

Any snow is blown in by high winds. There's less than 20 cm of snow per year so I don't really think there'd be enough during the battle to kinetically empower Bishop.

[DeniseXfrost]

I expect Domino and Longshot to do more.

[PhoenixBoyX]

And third, you have to hope that zombies make her claustrophobic, even though mobbed by zombies is not the same fear as an enclosed space. A fear which Storm has long gotten over.


I know the entirity of these competitions are conjecture - we make assumptions about how it would go and then our assumptions are pitted against each other and compared. Sometimes, when you go out on a limb like that, it works, other times, not so much. I give a lot of credit to the creativity all teams show when they write theirs up (it's why Steven ((HellFrost)) and I love doing this). We were just discussing how the teams appear. Is it in a line formation? What is the order of the line? Or do we just assume everyone MAGICALLY APPEARS IN THE MOST CONVENIENT FORMATION? It's a real crap shoot as to what people will accept. The time travel thing didn't hit it too well here, nor the claustrophobia inducing zombies but it's still a great try and I love the effort everyone is putting forth.

-Nicholas

[Mitsaso]

Omg why did you guys have to use time travel?

Now my brain is going kaboom...!!!

I,too, agree that there would hardly be any corpses there for Threnody to reanimate. Antarctica is WAY big, and even with the deaths mentioned in the comic I doubt there would be enough in that specific area to give her team a George Romero advantage.

[Greg Anderson]

Hey, everyone. I'll take fault for the claustrophobia Storm bit as it was generally my idea. I've always been used to 'Ro having to deal with her fear of closed, tight spaces and I remember reading somewhere that a certain person claustrophobia can also be triggered by a mass of people surrounded and closing in on them which I felt would be pretty cool to have that happen to Storm. I assumed that she still dealt strongly with her fear the way I was used to seeing her have to deal with it, so I apologies about how that turned out if the current status quo would have it to be out of character. So... yeah. :redface: :smile:

[Mr. Cakes]

Hey, everyone. I'll take fault for the claustrophobia Storm bit as it was generally my idea. I've always been used to 'Ro having to deal with her fear of closed, tight spaces and I remember reading somewhere that a certain person claustrophobia can also be triggered by a mass of people surrounded and closing in on them which I felt would be pretty cool to have that happen to Storm. I assumed that she still dealt strongly with her fear the way I was used to seeing her have to deal with it, so I apologies about how that turned out if the current status quo would have it to be out of character. So... yeah. :redface: :smile:

I liked that part! :smile: It was really creative and I had no idea Storm wasn't claustrophobic as much anymore.

[worstblogever]

Hey, everyone. I'll take fault for the claustrophobia Storm bit as it was generally my idea. I've always been used to 'Ro having to deal with her fear of closed, tight spaces and I remember reading somewhere that a certain person claustrophobia can also be triggered by a mass of people surrounded and closing in on them which I felt would be pretty cool to have that happen to Storm. I assumed that she still dealt strongly with her fear the way I was used to seeing her have to deal with it, so I apologies about how that turned out if the current status quo would have it to be out of character. So... yeah. :redface: :smile:

Hey, Storm's hard to quickly neutralize to begin with, and then in this environment, she's got some serious advantages given the weather conditions. I did like it in terms of trying something different, and it certainly was a creative apporach.

You guys did good, given what you had to overcome, and sure didn't pull any punches.

[Greg Anderson]

Hey, Storm's hard to quickly neutralize to begin with, and then in this environment, she's got some serious advantages given the weather conditions. I did like it in terms of trying something different, and it certainly was a creative apporach.

You guys did good, given what you had to overcome, and sure didn't pull any punches.

Yeah, seems the final draft of what happens to Storm was changed mostly for word limit. The way I imagined it to go, Ro was suppose to fly out of Siryn's scream and then shoot some lightning bolts down. As she's getting distracted to attack Domino and LS, Siryn sneaks behind her and puts her down with a sonic blast. That's when a few zombie hands grab her limbs to hold her down and the others stock pile on her. :redface:

Thanks for the kind words, man. :smile:

[escapegoat]

I found the whole Antarctic zombie thing implausible as well in X-Faction's scernario, so I voted for the Monorailers. I also felt more coulda been done with the luck abilities of Longshot and Domino being on the same team, but they really didn't go into play that well.

[The Lucky One]

The use of Longshot's probability is creative, I dunno if his powers lessen when he loses hope but if they do, then good catch.

Not... exactly, no. His luck doesn't decease if he loses hope; rather, it activates if he believes he's acting in the right or for morally just reasons, and if he believes he's doing something for selfish or immoral reasons, it rebounds, giving him bad luck. But it's not like on a steadily increasing/decreasing scale, no. Also, his agility isn't tied to it, so he wouldn't technically become slower or a worse fighter if he lost his luck... he just wouldn't get as many lucky breaks. And because his luck is magical and his agility inherent to who he is, he wouldn't be impacted by either Leech or the neutralyzer gun.

As I see it, Longshot/X-23 is a stalemate. If Wolverine's not fast enough to lay a hand on Longshot when he's trying to stay away (and Logan's not), I don't see X-23 having any more success. His insane speed and luck are enough that she's not laying a hand (claw?) on him. However, Longshot's blades aren't going to put X-23 down, and he can't get close enough to attack her any other way without putting himself in striking distance. That fight's one big game of keepaway until someone else from either team intervenes. Or a piano falls on X-23's head.

-D

[Justin K.]

Yeah, I know there have been a few mistakes
It's hard coming up with something both of us can agree one
I wanted to do one thing, my partner wanted to do another
Had to combine both :redface:

[RoguishGurl]

Good strats guys!

The main problem I have with justin and Greg Anderson's strategy is that I'm not so sure about the zombies working. And it seems that the strategy depends on that a lot.

Not... exactly, no. His luck doesn't decease if he loses hope; rather, it activates if he believes he's acting in the right or for morally just reasons, and if he believes he's doing something for selfish or immoral reasons, it rebounds, giving him bad luck. But it's not like on a steadily increasing/decreasing scale, no. Also, his agility isn't tied to it, so he wouldn't technically become slower or a worse fighter if he lost his luck... he just wouldn't get as many lucky breaks. And because his luck is magical and his agility inherent to who he is, he wouldn't be impacted by either Leech or the neutralyzer gun.

As I see it, Longshot/X-23 is a stalemate. If Wolverine's not fast enough to lay a hand on Longshot when he's trying to stay away (and Logan's not), I don't see X-23 having any more success. His insane speed and luck are enough that she's not laying a hand (claw?) on him. However, Longshot's blades aren't going to put X-23 down, and he can't get close enough to attack her any other way without putting himself in striking distance. That fight's one big game of keepaway until someone else from either team intervenes. Or a piano falls on X-23's head.

-D
This was my main problem with Psy J's strat. I'm not sure if X-23 can get past both Longshot and Domino. Don't Domino's power really help her before she can even thing about it?

Like a said, really good strats. Pach! and I will discuss it before we decide who to vote for.

[Justin K.]

I expect Domino and Longshot to do more.

I wanted to do that too actually. It was hard getting to do stuff without killing. I know Domino doesn't kill unless she has to and with the rules, it would be the weapon you would normally see her use, and that's her pistols (See X-Force) and it's hard to use a pistol to knock someone unconcious and not kill them, and Longshot, well in recent X-Factor, he's shown no hesitation in killing, but in early X-men, he didn't seem that way, overall with Longshot, I kinda wanted to avoid characterization conflict with him; Longshot's main weapons are those blades he carries around with him. He has used ropes too, but what's he gonna rope on to?

The Hub technique was what I found the trickiest actually. How are you gonna defeat a teleporter? Especially when you don't know their moves as well and make assumptions, which was what I did, you would expect someone to teleport from the horde of corpses. As for the corpses. well I am not sure how far this battle-field is from the savage land, but that was my main intention of where the bodies come from. If not there. in a couple issues of Uncanny X-men, people have been killed there. There was Zaladane's attack in Uncanny X-men #250, and though it is a bit under-populated, after doing some research, the population can be from 1,000-5,000, who knows the age. I alse read upon Antarctica. Not sure how far the battlefield is from the ocean, but from what I've seen, there's bodies in the water too. In 1979, a ship sunk killing around 300 on board, and throughout the 20th century, there have been the odd sunken ships there too. That's basically how I see the body count thing. The land may not be prosperous of corpses, but there is the water and the savage land.

This is just how I see it though...

[escapegoat]

The Hub technique was what I found the trickiest actually. How are you gonna defeat a teleporter? Especially when you don't know their moves as well and make assumptions, which was what I did, you would expect someone to teleport from the horde of corpses.

You coulda easily used Longshot's luck power in this situation to accidentally take out Hub...perhaps by having a blade intended for another target miss them and hit Hub instead upon a teleport entry somewhere. :wink:

[Waterlily]

It's not mine either. I know too much.

Oh you, always joking around

Don't talk about you're time traveling experiences! You'll risk causing a rift in the space/time continuam!!!!


I wanted to do that too actually. It was hard getting to do stuff without killing. I know Domino doesn't kill unless she has to and with the rules, it would be the weapon you would normally see her use, and that's her pistols (See X-Force) and it's hard to use a pistol to knock someone unconcious and not kill them, and Longshot, well in recent X-Factor, he's shown no hesitation in killing, but in early X-men, he didn't seem that way, overall with Longshot, I kinda wanted to avoid characterization conflict with him; Longshot's main weapons are those blades he carries around with him. He has used ropes too, but what's he gonna rope on to?

The Hub technique was what I found the trickiest actually. How are you gonna defeat a teleporter? Especially when you don't know their moves as well and make assumptions, which was what I did, you would expect someone to teleport from the horde of corpses. As for the corpses. well I am not sure how far this battle-field is from the savage land, but that was my main intention of where the bodies come from. If not there. in a couple issues of Uncanny X-men, people have been killed there. There was Zaladane's attack in Uncanny X-men #250, and though it is a bit under-populated, after doing some research, the population can be from 1,000-5,000, who knows the age. I alse read upon Antarctica. Not sure how far the battlefield is from the ocean, but from what I've seen, there's bodies in the water too. In 1979, a ship sunk killing around 300 on board, and throughout the 20th century, there have been the odd sunken ships there too. That's basically how I see the body count thing. The land may not be prosperous of corpses, but there is the water and the savage land.

Zombie Penguins ftw. <3 <3 <3

Also, when it came to luck powers, aren't there sometimes air pockets in Antarctica (or is that an Arctic only thing)? I could see a scenario where someone went to attack Longshot or Domino and fell in a hidden chasm. (a little late on advice, I know)

[chemicalx]

The thing with Bishop and snow is that he isnt absorbing the energy from the snow hitting him he is absorbing the energy released by the change of the snowflakes from solid to liquid state. In the issue of uncanny already referenced he mentions that the amount of energy he gets from this is minimal at best but the combined effects off all the snow on him provides a decent boost.

All that said he never mentions that absorbing the snow negates the cold at all so i dont think that can be used in this situation.

[Greg Anderson]

You coulda easily used Longshot's luck power in this situation to accidentally take out Hub...perhaps by having a blade intended for another target miss them and hit Hub instead upon a teleport entry somewhere. :wink:

Heh, see that, Justin? :wink: :tongue:

[Justin K.]

You coulda easily used Longshot's luck power in this situation to accidentally take out Hub...perhaps by having a blade intended for another target miss them and hit Hub instead upon a teleport entry somewhere. :wink:

My original intention of taking down storm was to have Domino or Longshot fire their weapon at Skids' shield and have it deflect off and luckily hit her. The Hub and Longshot idea was brought up, but I was trying to find a way to incorporate Siryn as well. She used her sonics at the beginning the deafen, that's about it, and I wanted to display her trackign as well, so that was my bad on my part. I have seen the deflection move done by Domino before, having it deflect off something and hit her intended target in the end.

Like I said, there were agreements and disagreements amongst us, but there's always next round to improve I suppose :redface:


Heh, see that, Justin? :wink:

No need to rub it in now
I wanted Domino to do the same with Storm :tongue:

[HellFrost]

I think the issue with Domino is already being taken care of because Moonstar is attacking her.

I definitely agree that X-23 possibly can't kill Longshot as I didn't realize that Longshot was mystically gifted with his abilities. Leech has used his powers on super-humans, can his negation field definitely not work on magic? Also, Everyone on X-Faction will be without their powers. I'm not seeing Threnody's "penguin zombies" (LOL) being an issue. Storm is too fast for the rest of the team and is eliminating 3 meembers pretty quickly.

[HellFrost]

Quick Q - can Hub teleport Leech without his powers preventing it?

Yes. And she can fly.

[Justin K.]

With leech, I made sure my members were far enough from him not to be dampened.

[HellFrost]

With leech, I made sure my members were far enough from him not to be dampened.

But Leech is teleported right near them. Hub has an innate radar which allows her to sense where she is teleporting so I don't see the position of your team being much of an issue to her.

[Justin K.]

EDIT: Nevermind.

[HellFrost]

How does Hub not lose her powers from Leech though? She is a mutant, right?
All she can do is just teleport, no? How would that make her resistant to Leech?
Also, she can teleport near one member, but that only leaves one depowered
she and Leech can't be everywhere at once too without the team regaining their powers back.

Leech has control over his abilities. I'd assume that by looking at the strat, Leech unleashes his negation field after the 'port. How can she only 'port next to one character, even if he's by her, Skids' force field will go down immediately. On top of that, Storm's power can freeze the air inside of a force field so if they are that close, I actually feel even worse for the rest of the team since they'll be caught in the middle of the flash freeze.

Also, we seem to be giving Longshot too much credit as well, since King Bedlam is actually filling his mind with static. A lot of your team won't be able to pull off half of what they do if their minds are being attacked.

[The Lucky One]

I definitely agree that X-23 possibly can't kill Longshot as I didn't realize that Longshot was mystically gifted with his abilities. Leech has used his powers on super-humans, can his negation field definitely not work on magic?

It's a fair question, one I don't know the answer to. In general in the MU, magic trumps science -- for instance, if the Juggernaut ran into the Blob, the Blob would move -- but I don't know in Leech's case. Does anyone know if Leech has ever been shown to remove, for instance, Thor's powers or anything similar?

-D

[Justin K.]

BAH! Now I've gotten a taste of the League
Oh well, there's always next round, more of a chance to prepare I suppose :redface:

[Mr. Cakes]

Everyone is always so down on themselves if they lose. Everyone's done a great job so far so nobody should be disappointed in themselves!

[Greg Anderson]

BAH! Now I've gotten a taste of the League
Oh well, there's always next round, more of a chance to prepare I suppose :redface:

Yeah, we still got next round. Chin up, bruh. :cool:

[Justin K.]

Everyone is always so down on themselves if they lose. Everyone's done a great job so far so nobody should be disappointed in themselves!

Don't worry, I'm not :redface:
This is my first time and I got much to learn
and well, At least there's next round to prepare for

[Mitsaso]

In the end, I had to vote for Psy J.

Greg Anderson and justinkos91 actually had a more creative and interesting strategy, but I just couldn't see some crucial parts of it working, which brought the battle in favor to their opponents.

Extra points to Psy J for killing Longshot's mullet! :tongue:
(by the way, was the scalping a reference to the Bride/Oren Ishi duel? :p)

[q.u.e.e.n.]

Justin and Greg, I feel like you really overused the zombies. I get that Antarctica was a good place to use them, but way too much.

The usage of Leech was awesome, Psy J. But at the same time, X-23 was the one doing most of the work. Havok could have served more to the team. Overall, I liked it..

Mr. Cakes and I vote Psy J!

[Askani's Flame]

After reviewing the strategies, I am leaning towards Psy J. I think that the terrain change-up (via Havok) and the time in order to create and produce the zombies by Threnody do not work in favour of X-Faction.

[The Fury]

It's a fair question, one I don't know the answer to. In general in the MU, magic trumps science -- for instance, if the Juggernaut ran into the Blob, the Blob would move -- but I don't know in Leech's case. Does anyone know if Leech has ever been shown to remove, for instance, Thor's powers or anything similar?

-D
A fair question and one hard to come by. Leech rarely appears outside of X-men books and it's anyone one's guess if a mystic character appeared in them, more then likely not.


In this I am unsure, both strategies have their advantages, the time travel thing might be confusing but works.

[Mikl C]

The time travel thing is a lame cop out.

eta: but I still love you justin.

[Justin K.]

The time travel thing is a lame cop out.

eta: but I still love you justin.

I have grown very fond of you too Mikl :tongue:

[Prodigy55]

justinkos91 and Mikl C sitting in a tree...

ooooooooooh!

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

[The Lucky One]

I really, really don't like time travel in these battles. I don't at all begrudge Greg and Justin for trying to get the most out of their characters -- that's what everyone does -- but even more than super speed or time stopping, it's impossible to defend against... if a team goes far enough back in time, there's literally nothing they couldn't rig up to take out all or most of the other team. However, it is technically allowed, and I like their creativity in utilizing Forge. I do question, though, whether Forge would be able to cannibalize enough parts from Bishop's arm to make a fully functioning neutralyzer gun AND leave the time travel components intact... maybe with Longshot's luck boosting him, but even that's pushing it. And while I buy that there may be many dead bodies on the continent of Antarctica, that's a damn big continent- these battles tend to play out over minutes, not hours or days, so I'm not sure the zombies could get there in time.

I do question some things in Psy J's strategy -- for one thing, I don't know that Leech would be willing to dampen Threnody's powers if he knows Laura is going to kill her -- but in the end, I think it has fewer question marks. But congrats to both teams on entertaining, thoughtful strategies!

-D

[Justin K.]

Kudos to Psy J for a good strategy, didn't expect some of his stuff.
Storm's one tough cookie along with X-23, it was hard thinking of stuff against those 2 I admit.
Either way, well played :smile:

[Psy J]

I was at work all day today and it was awesome to come home and see a pleasant, civil conversation regarding all of these characters and their respective capabilities.

Good game, Greg and Justin. It's obvious that you guys put a great amount of time and effort into constructing your strategy. And it's not over for you! Good luck in future matches. :smile:

[Jack Flash]

another really well played match! If ya'll had gone with Zombie Penguins, I think you would have won!

[Greg Anderson]

another really well played match! If ya'll had gone with Zombie Penguins, I think you would have won!

You know, I was thinking of getting some zombie bears to try to traumatize Dani, but Justin mentioned that that's the South Pole, that it's pretty much penguins in the area we were fighting. Thinking about it now, zombie penguins would be damn hilarious to have attack people. :biggrin:

[escapegoat]

You know, I was thinking of getting some zombie bears to try to traumatize Dani, but Justin mentioned that that's the South Pole, that it's pretty much penguins in the area we were fighting. Thinking about it now, zombie penguins would be damn hilarious to have attack people. :biggrin:

Zombie penguins woulda totally changed the game for me too...that tactic would have been hard NOT to vote against... :biggrin:

[mattbib]

Congratulations to Psy J who advances to game 10 where he'll face the winner of Game 4 next Tuesday.

Great job to Greg Anderson & Justinkos91 who move on to Game B where they'll face the loser of Game 4 next Tuesday.