Thoughts on Spidey writers past...

[Matt Linton]

I'm reading through Amazing Spider-Man and I'm finally in the midst of the post-Lee era of writers. So far I've read Conway's run, which I really enjoyed. I've just finished up the Doc Ock/Hammerhead haunting issues by Len Wein, and he's just not a good fit for Spider-Man. Far too much narrative burying overly simplistic plots. Is there another good run coming up before Stern?

[Jim Thompson]

I'm reading through Amazing Spider-Man and I'm finally in the midst of the post-Lee era of writers. So far I've read Conway's run, which I really enjoyed. I've just finished up the Doc Ock/Hammerhead haunting issues by Len Wein, and he's just not a good fit for Spider-Man. Far too much narrative burying overly simplistic plots. Is there another good run coming up before Stern?Shucks. I really liked the Wein run!

[Matt Linton]

Yeah, but you like The Clone Saga and Morrison's Batman, too. :)

[Jim Thompson]

Yeah, but you like The Clone Saga and Morrison's Batman, too. :)Indeed -- though in the case of Wein, my enjoyment might be as much about nostalgia as anything else -- he was at the helm when I really started getting interested in the character -- plus I think he introduced the Cyclone! :biggrin:

[yadadaimhollaing]

marv wolfmans run was good, especially when you get near to the 200s. really i liked conway and weins run as well.

[whiteshark]

I'm reading through Amazing Spider-Man and I'm finally in the midst of the post-Lee era of writers. So far I've read Conway's run, which I really enjoyed. I've just finished up the Doc Ock/Hammerhead haunting issues by Len Wein, and he's just not a good fit for Spider-Man. Far too much narrative burying overly simplistic plots. Is there another good run coming up before Stern?


Len Wein was one of the best writers in Spider-Man the way i see it.
Had a good start in th A.S.M. book with his first arc with the Shocker.
And this arc is still one of the best Shocer stories in my opinion.:eek:
He wrote as well the "The longest hundred yards" in A.S.M#153.
Considered by many as one of the best stories ever of Spider-Man.
And wrote at least two more good arcs in the title as well ("Ghost" Hammerhead and the arc around the third Green Goblin.
This is very good considerating he only wrote 30 numbers in A.S.M. book.

[oldschool]

I'm reading through Amazing Spider-Man and I'm finally in the midst of the post-Lee era of writers. So far I've read Conway's run, which I really enjoyed. I've just finished up the Doc Ock/Hammerhead haunting issues by Len Wein, and he's just not a good fit for Spider-Man. Far too much narrative burying overly simplistic plots. Is there another good run coming up before Stern?

I actually really liked Wein; I think the excessive exposition/narration was a trademark of the 70's (see Conway's run on Marvel Team-Up for an even more potent example!).

But after Wein comes Wolfman and I really liked his run even better than Wein's. Unfortunately, he is followed by O'Neill who I think was just boring beyond words.

[Don't pee in the (Dead)pool]

Yeah, but you like The Clone Saga and Morrison's Batman, too. :)

So do I, Matt...

[oldschool]

By the way, when rereading old ASM issues from the 70's, I really enjoy rereading my old Marvel Team-Ups concurrently, particularly the first 50 issues or so. They at least reference ASM continuity and Conway and Mantlo wrote the lion's share of them; they are great fun and this is a title that I miss! Of course, Spectacular was also a great title and had a very solid run, but that title does not get overlooked the way Marvel Team-Up sometimes does.....

[Jim Thompson]

By the way, when rereading old ASM issues from the 70's, I really enjoy rereading my old Marvel Team-Ups concurrently, particularly the first 50 issues or so. They at least reference ASM continuity and Conway and Mantlo wrote the lion's share of them; they are great fun and this is a title that I miss! Of course, Spectacular was also a great title and had a very solid run, but that title does not get overlooked the way Marvel Team-Up sometimes does.....The original Marvel Team-Up was a fantastic book -- and I'd love to see that style of book return (both Marvel Team-Up and Marvel Two-In-One).

[whiteshark]

I actually really liked Wein; I think the excessive exposition/narration was a trademark of the 70's (see Conway's run on Marvel Team-Up for an even more potent example!).

But after Wein comes Wolfman and I really liked his run even better than Wein's. Unfortunately, he is followed by O'Neill who I think was just boring beyond words.


Have to say that Wein`s run in the A.S.M. book was better than Wolfman generaly speaking.
Too many bad stories are against Wolfman in my opinion ("The Big Wheel","White Dragon" ,"Man-Wolf" and the "Fly".All porly stories developed in my opinion.
But still wrote at least one good arc (A.S.M:198 to 200).
And invented the Black Cat character.
But from a general point of view i always thought that Len Wein run in the book was better than Marv Wolfman.
Agree with you in part though about Denny o`Neil ,because this writer still wrote a very good arc in A.S.M#211,212.
But the rest of his run was worst i have to say.

[Matt Linton]

Indeed -- though in the case of Wein, my enjoyment might be as much about nostalgia as anything else -- he was at the helm when I really started getting interested in the character -- plus I think he introduced the Cyclone! :biggrin:

Nope, that was Conway. :)

[StoneGold]

I find Wein in general is the definition of a yeoman-like writer. For the most part, he just put stuff out there - not bad, but not genius. He's just kind of lucky in that others took his material and ran with it, making him the guy who created ________.

[Matt Linton]

I did like Wein's Shocker story, but not much else, so far. Part of my problem might be that I'm back to not enjoying Andru's art (especially his Aunt May, who looks like the Crypt Keeper).

[Jim Thompson]

Nope, that was Conway. :)Yeah, I knew it was one of the two! Thanks for the G2.

Cyclone is a great character, I think. Be nice to see him again -- maybe as part of the new Sinister Six! :biggrin:

[Matt Linton]

I really liked the Cyclone story and he did seem to have what it takes to be a great Spidey villain. Mirage was interesting, too (and he was a Wein creation).

[Jim Thompson]

--not bad, but not genius. I think that's a pretty good description of his work. It's just enjoyable.

[Jim Thompson]

I really liked the Cyclone story and he did seem to have what it takes to be a great Spidey villain. Mirage was interesting, too (and he was a Wein creation).I forgot about Mirage -- though I suppose he could be seen as little more than a secondhand Mysterio.

[whiteshark]

I find Wein in general is the definition of a yeoman-like writer. For the most part, he just put stuff out there - not bad, but not genius. He's just kind of lucky in that others took his material and ran with it, making him the guy who created ________.


Len Wein created Mirage,reborned Hammerhead,created Stegron,created Will'O'Wisp as well,Rocket Racer ,Green Goblin III and stil wrote those great arcs i mentioned before.
Still created something didnt he?

[Jim Thompson]

Len Wein created Mirage,reborned Hammerhead,created Stegron,created Will'O'Wisp as well,Rocket Racer ,Green Goblin III and stil wrote those great arcs i mentioned before.
Still created something didnt he?I thought that Goblin III arc was a really good story.

[whiteshark]

I thought that Goblin III arc was a really good story.


Thought the same.
Was a very good developed story,and just left the readers (Left me aniway:biggrin: ) stunned when during the story we see that this Green Goblin is not Harry Osborn like the story wanted to schow.

[yadadaimhollaing]

I thought that Goblin III arc was a really good story.

agreed. this was developed for a long time. this is one of my favorite subplots throughout amazing spiderman.

[oldschool]

Speaking of writers who were "not genius, but perfectly enjoyable" (as someone very aptly described Len Wein), I always thought both Bill Mantlo and Al Milgrom fell into that category. Mantlo wrote a lot of issues (both Spectacular and MTU----never ASM) that were more than servicable. Milgrom followed him on Spectacular and wrote some of the more enjoyable issues of that series including the Black Cat issues that led up to Felicia getting powers thru a deal with the Kingpin----his was a relatively short run but a good one. Again, nothing earth-shattering but very well done.

[yadadaimhollaing]

Speaking of writers who were "not genius, but perfectly enjoyable" (as someone very aptly described Len Wein), I always thought both Bill Mantlo and Al Milgrom fell into that category. Mantlo wrote a lot of issues (both Spectacular and MTU----never ASM) that were more than servicable. Milgrom followed him on Spectacular and wrote some of the more enjoyable issues of that series including the Black Cat issues that led up to Felicia getting powers thru a deal with the Kingpin----his was a relatively short run but a good one. Again, nothing earth-shattering but very well done.

those are both writers i havent read. milgroms run seems interesting to me. while i was reading the asm issues of the same time often refered to his owl/doc ock story. the ending of that story had repurcussions on doc ock for years.

[Mister Mets]

I'm reading through Amazing Spider-Man and I'm finally in the midst of the post-Lee era of writers. So far I've read Conway's run, which I really enjoyed. I've just finished up the Doc Ock/Hammerhead haunting issues by Len Wein, and he's just not a good fit for Spider-Man. Far too much narrative burying overly simplistic plots. Is there another good run coming up before Stern?

Wolfman was pretty good, especially the eight issue stretch that culminated with Amazing Spider-Man #200.

Dennis O'Neil's two annuals with Frank Miller are exceptional.

Small point, but I'm wondering if Wein was hurt by the shift to 17 pages an issue, which might have forced him to simplify his plots.

[Jim Thompson]

Wolfman was pretty good, especially the eight issue stretch that culminated with Amazing Spider-Man #200.ASM #200 is, I think, arguably the best anniversary issue in the series.

Small point, but I'm wondering if Wein was hurt by the shift to 17 pages an issue, which might have forced him to simplify his plots.First it would depend if you think his run was good or bad. What I remember, fondly in hindsight, was his ability to get to the point rather quickly while still playing out several sub-plots through the title.

[yadadaimhollaing]

Wolfman was pretty good, especially the eight issue stretch that culminated with Amazing Spider-Man #200.

Dennis O'Neil's two annuals with Frank Miller are exceptional.

Small point, but I'm wondering if Wein was hurt by the shift to 17 pages an issue, which might have forced him to simplify his plots.

What made weins run only 17 pages?

[JamesOliva]

What made weins run only 17 issues?

17 pages not issues.

[yadadaimhollaing]

17 pages not issues.

Haha oops, mistyped. Not paying enough attention to my posting :tongue:

[Mister Mets]

What made weins run only 17 pages?I believe it was Marvel's way of reducing costs, and delaying an inevitable price increase. It actually occurred fairly early in Conway's run.

But the loss of five pages a month could explain why Wein might be seen as having too much narrative with overly simplistic plots (especially given Wein's habit of having long-term subplots, which reduces the page count for the main story.)

[Scott Taylor]

Wolfman was pretty good, especially the eight issue stretch that culminated with Amazing Spider-Man #200.

Thats my favorite run of the 1980s. Wolfman just was merciless on poor ole Spidey for that one - even chaining him to jolly Jonah with a time bomb for a couple of issues.

Len Wein's series comes a close second. Some of his work was, well, amazing. I especially loves the Hitman/Punisher and the Green Goblin stuff.

I kind of lost interest during the O'Neil era that followed Wolfman's run.

[yadadaimhollaing]

Thats my favorite run of the 1980s. Wolfman just was merciless on poor ole Spidey for that one - even chaining him to jolly Jonah with a time bomb for a couple of issues.

Len Wein's series comes a close second. Some of his work was, well, amazing. I especially loves the Hitman/Punisher and the Green Goblin stuff.

I kind of lost interest during the O'Neil era that followed Wolfman's run.

Haha nobody likes o neils run :biggrin: I'm sure old school will love your post too :biggrin:

[yadadaimhollaing]

I believe it was Marvel's way of reducing costs, and delaying an inevitable price increase. It actually occurred fairly early in Conway's run.

But the loss of five pages a month could explain why Wein might be seen as having too much narrative with overly simplistic plots (especially given Wein's habit of having long-term subplots, which reduces the page count for the main story.)

Thanks mets. At first I didn't remember the page count being shorter but as I read this thread this does kind of ring a bell. I think I do remember the issues being shorter. This makes sense although what a bitch it is to have the issues shortened. Did marvel do this to other series as well or was this unique to asm?

[Mister Mets]

Thanks mets. At first I didn't remember the page count being shorter but as I read this thread this does kind of ring a bell. I think I do remember the issues being shorter. This makes sense although what a bitch it is to have the issues shortened. Did marvel do this to other series as well or was this unique to asm?As the page count of the first Claremont/ Cockrum X-Men issues demonstrates, they did it to other books as well.

[David Walton]

As the page count of the first Claremont/ Cockrum X-Men issues demonstrates, they did it to other books as well.

They also started numbering the ads pages at one point so as to actually make the books seem larger, if you were going by page count alone!

[Aziz Abbasi]

Shucks. I really liked the Wein run!


marv wolfmans run was good, especially when you get near to the 200s. really i liked conway and weins run as well.
Ditto
My enjoyment begin with Stan Lee until the era of Amazing 342, with a few issues here & there up until P.J & J.M.S saved the titles from Mackie.

last month of 2006-end of 2007 not really good.

Now the stories are very easy to read because I enjoy them