Its was kinda meant to be wasn't it?

[K-DoG7p7]

Green Arrow And Black Canary that is..

Given that Ollie models himself after Robin Hood..
and Dinah (that is the original appearance of Dinah Drake) was a villiane who stole from .... BADGUYS! .. just like Robin Hood..


Get it..

Match made in .. that thing with the nice weather..

[cedardryad]

If you want to go with the whole Robin Hood Maid Marianne thing, I think Marianne was also said to be pretty badass herself.

[K-DoG7p7]

And lest not forget that Dinah actually WAS Maid Marianne....

thats right..

[Gail Simone]

If I wrote those characters I'd have their marriage annulled Day One.

Sorry, but that's how it would have to be.

[K-DoG7p7]

If I wrote those characters I'd have their marriage annulled Day One.

Sorry, but that's how it would have to be.

for the only writer who currently writes Ollie as he is supposed to be.. your so negative... :tongue:

[Mercurialblonde]

I liked the marriage issue. But it's hard to argue with Gail on this. All of the stuff since then has been awful awful awful. The marriage has hurt both characters a lot.

I do like their romance though. It always gets me and probably always will.
I wish there was more romance in superhero comics.
I want to see my Zatanna-Batman-Catwoman love triangle power couple play out.
And I'd like to see Dick and Barbara spend more time together.

Also I like Guy and Ice. I loved that recent GLC issue where they were having a date.

[Bombshell]

If I wrote those characters I'd have their marriage annulled Day One.

Sorry, but that's how it would have to be.

I...

Thank you.

[Nate Grey]

If I wrote those characters I'd have their marriage annulled Day One.

Sorry, but that's how it would have to be.

Gail, could you explain why? I've often gathered you had a dislike for the marriage but never understood why. Thanks.

[Kevinroc]

Gail, could you explain why? I've often gathered you had a dislike for the marriage but never understood why. Thanks.

It has a lot more to do with the way Ollie has been written over the years. The fact that he has cheated on Dinah and she just seems to accept it and be with him.

(Not to mention the fact that other writers tend to make sure that Dinah took stupid pills whenever she seems to hang out with Ollie. When Gail was writing her, Dinah was extremely competent. In the pages of JLA under McDuffie, Dinah is extremely competent. In the GA/ BC book, Dinah's about as competent as a character that picked up their costume two days ago.)

[Bombshell]

It has a lot more to do with the way Ollie has been written over the years. The fact that he has cheated on Dinah and she just seems to accept it and be with him.

(Not to mention the fact that other writers tend to make sure that Dinah took stupid pills whenever she seems to hang out with Ollie. When Gail was writing her, Dinah was extremely competent. In the pages of JLA under McDuffie, Dinah is extremely competent. In the GA/ BC book, Dinah's about as competent as a character that picked up their costume two days ago.)

*points to the quote*

What he said.

Dinah, without Ollie, is extremely competent, strong, and capable. She's not a super-mary-sue where she can, like, do everything [she does take a hit once or twice], but she's never a damsel in distress. This is someone who has trained under some of the world's best martial artists, who every day is working on bettering herself, who has commanded the respect of people like Batman and Lady Shiva and Ted Grant. She's a total bad-ass.

With Ollie, she's...they need to give Ollie a bad-ass moment, throughout history, the way to do that is to bring Dinah down a few notches. Dinah is a hundred times the hero that Ollie is, but that almost always gets taken away from her when he comes into the picture.

[ScottyQuick]

It has a lot more to do with the way Ollie has been written over the years. The fact that he has cheated on Dinah and she just seems to accept it and be with him.


I'm trying to think, when has he ever cheated on Dinah? Marianne kissed him, then when Dinah broke up with him he slept with her. No cheatery.

Totally agree with your second part. Ollie/Dinah was adorable when it happened, but they broke up long ago and both got over it and moved on. Why can't the fans?

[Kevinroc]

I'm trying to think, when has he ever cheated on Dinah? Marianne kissed him, then when Dinah broke up with him he slept with her. No cheatery.

During Winick's run, Ollie slept with a relative of Black Lightning's (I think it was a niece). Gail even wrote a scene in Birds of Prey in which Dinah thought about that "stupid, cheating archer."

Totally agree with your second part. Ollie/Dinah was adorable when it happened, but they broke up long ago and both got over it and moved on. Why can't the fans?

I blame DC's decision to try and revert the status quo as close to the "classic" status quo (meaning whenever the current people in charge were kids first reading these books). I know people that have had less relationship problems with each other than Dinah and Ollie and we all look at our friends like they are idiots for going back to each other.

[K-DoG7p7]

I'm trying to think, when has he ever cheated on Dinah? Marianne kissed him, then when Dinah broke up with him he slept with her. No cheatery.
In Judd Winicks first arc he was told to brake them up again..
his method was to have Ollie sleep with the first chick he saw,
and thus began almost 6 years of hell for fans of Green Arrow..
Gowing straight from an arc where he and Roy goes thrugh hell just to get the parts needed for a very custom and personal engagement ring.. only to screw it all up like that..

Ohh and Judd seems to belive that Ollie had cheated before..

WHEN SHADO RAPED HIM!
http://girl-wonder.org/girlsreadcomics/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/betrayalwtf.jpg
So what Judd winick is saying is that rape victims are the once who deserve the blame..

[OzBat!]

I think the rationale for the annullment would be really simple, in story. Since they've been back together Dinah has constantly been undermined by Ollie. She'd be jack of it, and more importantly after the self-assessment and re-training she did in BoP, she'd be more than capable of recognising that Ollie's just plain bad for her once the glossy rosy glasses come off.

[Bombshell]

What kills me most is how out of character it is.

You have Dinah tell Ollie that whatever it was that made her want to be with him, that part of her is gone, possibly forever.

And then, suddenly, OYL happens, we're not privy to any growth on Ollie's side because OYL is being used as an excuse. Dinah leaves the BoP to raise Sin, ends up helping to form the latest incarnation of the League, argues with Ollie, hops into bed with him, and then gets engaged?

I call it. She's a White Martian in disguise. Clearly the real Dinah was kidnapped at some point between OYL and her leaving Birds of Prey.

[Kevinroc]

What kills me most is how out of character it is.

You have Dinah tell Ollie that whatever it was that made her want to be with him, that part of her is gone, possibly forever.

And then, suddenly, OYL happens, we're not privy to any growth on Ollie's side because OYL is being used as an excuse. Dinah leaves the BoP to raise Sin, ends up helping to form the latest incarnation of the League, argues with Ollie, hops into bed with him, and then gets engaged?

I call it. She's a White Martian in disguise. Clearly the real Dinah was kidnapped at some point between OYL and her leaving Birds of Prey.

Secret Final Invasion Crisis?

:tongue:

[Bombshell]

Lol, yes. That's why J'onn was taken off the board so early.

The whole thing, clearly, is being orchestrated by Miss Martian and Martian Canary.

[ScottyQuick]

During Winick's run, Ollie slept with a relative of Black Lightning's (I think it was a niece). Gail even wrote a scene in Birds of Prey in which Dinah thought about that "stupid, cheating archer."



Ah. See, I've got Grell's run and I've read Quiver, but nothing else GA wise, and he didn't cheat on her there.

Bombshell, of course it's being orchestrated by Miss Martian. She has "bad blood", dontchaknow?

[K-DoG7p7]

Ah. See, I've got Grell's run and I've read Quiver, but nothing else GA wise, and he didn't cheat on her there.

Bombshell, of course it's being orchestrated by Miss Martian. She has "bad blood", dontchaknow?

Pick up Sound of Violence and Archers quest .. and then ... wait until we say its clear.. after that everything goes to hell..

[heystacy]

Secret Final Invasion Crisis?

:tongue:

Final Secret Crisis Invasion sounds better. :wink:

[Kevinroc]

Final Secret Crisis Invasion sounds better. :wink:

Given the sales numbers, I would think they would want to lead with the word "Secret" over the word "Final."

:tongue:

[Cam63]

I liked the marriage issue. But it's hard to argue with Gail on this. All of the stuff since then has been awful awful awful. The marriage has hurt both characters a lot.

I do like their romance though. It always gets me and probably always will.
I wish there was more romance in superhero comics.
I want to see my Zatanna-Batman-Catwoman love triangle power couple play out.
And I'd like to see Dick and Barbara spend more time together.

I agree. Bad writing has been mainly the blame.

...and Babs does need to see more Dick.

[4PointOh]

If I wrote those characters I'd have their marriage annulled Day One.

Sorry, but that's how it would have to be.

I would use my "One Reboot Free" card and make it so that the whole mess never happened.

[scout1279]

Dinah just need to pay a visit to Mephisto.

[Corrina]

Well, that wouldn't work. The idea of a deal with the Devil is that you give up something to get something else you want.

I mean, what's Dinah giving up? :)

[scout1279]

Well, that wouldn't work. The idea of a deal with the Devil is that you give up something to get something else you want.

I mean, what's Dinah giving up? :)
I maintain that, the morning of their "One More Day," Mary Jane realized she was married to a passive aggressive jerk and wanted out.

[Nate Grey]

It has a lot more to do with the way Ollie has been written over the years. The fact that he has cheated on Dinah and she just seems to accept it and be with him.

(Not to mention the fact that other writers tend to make sure that Dinah took stupid pills whenever she seems to hang out with Ollie. When Gail was writing her, Dinah was extremely competent. In the pages of JLA under McDuffie, Dinah is extremely competent. In the GA/ BC book, Dinah's about as competent as a character that picked up their costume two days ago.)

Um, thanks, but I really wanted GAIL to answer. Everyone's gonna have a different reason as to why they don't want the marriage, I'm curious as to what her's is. Unless you're answering by proxy somehow?

[TCJohnson]

If I wrote those characters I'd have their marriage annulled Day One.

Sorry, but that's how it would have to be.

And bring Sin back?

The little girl, not the cheating.

We can keep sin in Secret Six...the cheating, not the little girl.