Did Namor and Invisible Woman ever have sex?

[marvelman622]

I was reading newest wizard (special platinum edition for january 2009) and in an interview with bendis, they are talking about mr fantastic and they mention something about namor banging his wife

soo i was just wondering if this ever happened, because i can't remember ever hearing about namor sleeping with the invisible woman

thanks

[Eliseu Gouveia]

IIRC, only in fanfics.

[chaosakita]

IIRC, only in fanfics.

In fanfics? What, there's specifically het Marvel fanfiction? Where?

[XPac]

I don't think so... and even if Reed were out of the picture I don't think they ever should.

It's sort of like Wolverien and Jean Grey... the whole "forgidden fruit" aspect is really a big part of the fun.

The minute they ever really do hook up, I think a lot of the mystique over it will pretty much evaporate.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

In fanfics? What, there's specifically het Marvel fanfiction? Where?


This is the internet, there´s fanfics of everything. :wink:

[Shellhead]

Did Namor and Invisible Woman ever have sex?

Not that we've seen.

[Monty_Cristo]

he looks like Phil Collins and smells like fish. what do you think?

[Mia]

I was reading newest wizard (special platinum edition for january 2009) and in an interview with bendis, they are talking about mr fantastic and they mention something about namor banging his wife

soo i was just wondering if this ever happened, because i can't remember ever hearing about namor sleeping with the invisible woman

thanks

I believe he tried to seduce her. But she didn't go for it.

[XPac]

he looks like Phil Collins and smells like fish. what do you think?

Phil Collins?

I don't know... I've imagined a real life Namor in my head looking more like a younger Leonard Nemoy. Maybe its because of the pointy ears.

[Last_Avenger]

he looks like Phil Collins and smells like fish. what do you think?

Yeah, where do you get the Phil Collins thing, he's not a pudgy short man, he's more chiseled and manly then Phil Collins could ever dream to be.

[Mia]

Phil Collins?

I don't know... I've imagined a real life Namor in my head looking more like a younger Leonard Nemoy. Maybe its because of the pointy ears.


Actually now that it's mentioned. Sean Avery comes to mind. Both of them are boorish and full of themselves.

http://images.nymag.com/daily/intel/27_seanavery_lgl.jpg

[Monty_Cristo]

Yeah, where do you get the Phil Collins thing, he's not a pudgy short man, he's more chiseled and manly then Phil Collins could ever dream to be.

i'm talking about Maleev's version. i thought it would have been obvious. :frown:

[Last_Avenger]

i'm talking about Maleev's version. i thought it would have been obvious. :frown:

I block that abomination out of my mind as much as possible, I like to think of McNiven Namor.

[Rev. Calibos]

They didn't have sex, they made love........:tongue:

That is a twisted image, but no I don't think that Sue would have ever given in to temptation.

Reed is one lucky sonofagun tell you what......

[Expletive Deleted]

Text says no. Subtext says maybe. Who you gonna believe?

[Sean Walsh]

Wait, Bendis himself wrote in NEW AVENGERS: THE ILLUMINATI that Namor never had sex with her.

IIRC, everyone present figured he did, but he told them that while he tried to get her to, many times, she never would.

[Last_Avenger]

Text says no. Subtext says maybe. Who you gonna believe?

I still suspect Namor and Sue may have at least did something slightly naughty when she went to enlist him during Civil War and made that comment about her heart rate, followed by an abrupt cut to another part of the tale...

[Last_Avenger]

Wait, Bendis himself wrote in NEW AVENGERS: THE ILLUMINATI that Namor never had sex with her.

IIRC, everyone present figured he did, but he told them that while he tried to get her to, many times, she never would.

He probably said that so Reed wouldn't cry and throw a tantrum.

[Brannon]

The Watcher told me that on Earth2389765544678, Namor indeed hit it.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Did Namor and Invisible Woman ever have sex?

Not that we've seen.

Nicely crafted, sir.:wink:

[bebopeva88]

I say they probably did (not that it ever was shown, I'm just talking about in theory). It makes it much more interesting that way, and paints Sue in a more flawed way, since she's always portrayed as being so damn flawless.

[ComiXFanBoy]

nope never. closest namor ever got was llyra impersonating sue and there was that one what if issue were namor and sue got married and had a child together

[Brannon]

There has always been that tantalizing "Reed spends so much time in the lab ignoring me...Namor is so passionate.." angle going.

I just think it would be out of character for Sue to have had an affair with ol' fish lips. I'm sure she's thought about it many times, but some of the characters should remain morally and ethically sound, if you ask me. This does NOT mean that they are flawless paragons of virtue..it.just means they're better than the average mouth-breathers on "Cheaters."

[CyberCoyote]

Unless they give Namor a retconned score he never got it. Word on the Great Barrier Reef is he tries to brag that he did it but all he really did was the old external emission like a male fish on eggs and she inadvertently swam through it. Only counts for flounders, though :wink:

And Sue's been tempted, she's got her flaws. But not every single married person's had an affair (or engaged for that matter). There's temptation.. then there's true love that goes through rough spots but always wins out (we hope). I'm glad in these morally gray days at Marvel Reed and Sue are still devoted to one another.

[Monty_Cristo]

There has always been that tantalizing "Reed spends so much time in the lab ignoring me...Namor is so passionate.." angle going.

I just think it would be out of character for Sue to have had an affair with ol' fish lips. I'm sure she's thought about it many times, but some of the characters should remain morally and ethically sound, if you ask me. This does NOT mean that they are flawless paragons of virtue..it.just means they're better than the average mouth-breathers on "Cheaters."

it surprises me that a smart guy like Reed hasn't ever thought to form some kind of pact with alternate dimension Reed. like one week he could satisfy the other Reed's wife while he spends time in the lab. and vice versa. or Reed could create a life-like android to do the deed.

[CyberCoyote]

it surprises me that a smart guy like Reed hasn't ever thought to form some kind of pact with alternate dimension Reed. like one week he could satisfy the other Reed's wife while he spends time in the lab. and vice versa. or Reed could create a life-like android to do the deed.

That would be The Astonishing Mr Fantastic, Monty :biggrin:

[Spiffy]

Why would she sleep with a guy who smells like a fish and LOOKS like a hobo?


Okay, he didn't ALWAYS look like a hobo, but lately...



http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65/Wollstonecraft/izujd4.jpg

[jackolover]

Text says no. Subtext says maybe. Who you gonna believe?

JMS has just raised subtext to a new level. He had subtext have Norman Osborn sex Gwen Stacy and they had 2 children. Subtexting Sue and Namor having sex isn't any different to that.

[jackolover]

I still suspect Namor and Sue may have at least did something slightly naughty when she went to enlist him during Civil War and made that comment about her heart rate, followed by an abrupt cut to another part of the tale...

Am... her head said no, but her body said maybe. All that dog Namor needed is her alone in his kingdom, and her heart racing, and..... who knows.

There has always been that tantalizing "Reed spends so much time in the lab ignoring me...Namor is so passionate.." angle going.

I just think it would be out of character for Sue to have had an affair with ol' fish lips. I'm sure she's thought about it many times, but some of the characters should remain morally and ethically sound, if you ask me. This does NOT mean that they are flawless paragons of virtue..it.just means they're better than the average mouth-breathers on "Cheaters."

If Sue and Namor did do the dirty, which child would be his?

[Expletive Deleted]

JMS has just raised subtext to a new level. He had subtext have Norman Osborn sex Gwen Stacy and they had 2 children. Subtexting Sue and Namor having sex isn't any different to that.I think you may be unclear on the concept of subtext.

[jackolover]

I think you may be unclear on the concept of subtext.

Okay. Some people may insinuate that Namor and Sue had sex. I am stretching that subtext is not just that insinuation, but something unstated in the books.

[Last_Avenger]

Am... her head said no, but her body said maybe. All that dog Namor needed is her alone in his kingdom, and her heart racing, and..... who knows.



If Sue and Namor did do the dirty, which child would be his?

To me it was ambiguous, and purposely done too. Marvel will never let Sue cheat on Reed, I'd rather have it be something never mentioned and in my imagination that the wife of a guy who barely spends time with her left him for a guy who she probably would've ended up with had certain things not happened, like her marriage.

Personally I think her and Namor are better for each other. Reed just never even remotely interested me, too bland. Overall that's why I like the idea of a secret love affair that may have been a one time deal or happens when Reed delves too much into his work.

Better left unspoken, and don't say it couldn't happen either, plenty of people report having at one time or another having an affair.

[B. Kuwanger]

Marvel would not let it happen, and if they did Namor would no longer be my favorite character.

[Kirayoshi]

i'm talking about Maleev's version. i thought it would have been obvious. :frown:
If you're talking about that Dark Reign one-shot, I was thinking that he looked like Jean Reno.

[Shyft]

Reed is lame, so i hope Namor and Sue knocked boots/ankle wings. lets see Reed create a wall of math to explain how much cooler Namor is than him.

[chaosakita]

Well, Sue and Namor having sex wouldn't necessarily be bad. *cough*threesomes*cough*

But Marvel wouldn't allow that, I guess.

This is the internet, there´s fanfics of everything. :wink:

I was kidding, but I really have yet to stumble upon actual het fanfics. It'd be nice to see something in the Marvel fandom besides Iron Man/Captain America slash.

Text says no. Subtext says maybe. Who you gonna believe?

YES

SUBTEXT >>>>> EVERYTHING!!!! *Points at icon...*

[Umbra]

T'challa can hit it:eek: :biggrin:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/10390/429510-TORC_2x03c_550x367_super.jpg

[Nefarius]

T'challa can hit it:eek: :biggrin:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/10390/429510-TORC_2x03c_550x367_super.jpg

Look like Sue has a thing for monarchs.Namor,Black Panther...i won't be surprised if Sue has a thing for Dr Doom.:biggrin:

[chaosakita]

Look like Sue has a thing for monarchs.Namor,Black Panther...i won't be surprised if Sue has a thing for Dr Doom.:biggrin:

Well, Doom's a real player...

[Umbra]

Look like Sue has a thing for monarchs.Namor,Black Panther...i won't be surprised if Sue has a thing for Dr Doom.:biggrin:

Poor Reed:tongue:

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Look like Sue has a thing for monarchs.Namor,Black Panther...i won't be surprised if Sue has a thing for Dr Doom.:biggrin:

Pray that Medusa never leaves Sue and Black Bolt alone in a room. ^_^

[ThePhenom]

Pray that Medusa never leaves Sue and Black Bolt alone in a room. ^_^

Well it's not like he's gonna be the one to blab. Heh.

:redface:

[XPac]

Poor Reed:tongue:

I don't feel too bad for him.

Given the potential applications Reeds powers may have on his performance in the sack, I think it's very possible Sue will never cheat on Reed. And if she did, odds are she'd be pretty disappointed.

In this regard, I don't think Doom, Namor or Black Panther can measure up to Reed. Literally.

[Captain Smith]

I couldn't see the Invisible Woman doing that but it would be a stretch for Reed not to worry about it.

[ComiXFanBoy]

they did have a passionate kiss at the end of namor #50; back when reed was dead. who knows what happened afterward

[BBeeryan]

I don't feel too bad for him.

Given the potential applications Reeds powers may have on his performance in the sack, I think it's very possible Sue will never cheat on Reed. And if she did, odds are she'd be pretty disappointed.

In this regard, I don't think Doom, Namor or Black Panther can measure up to Reed. Literally.

So, basically Sue should be worrying about Reed's "indiscretions"? You betta not lie on Spider-Woman like that. What did she ever do to you? Reed has never looked at her that way. Eventhough her pheramones call to him. Stop your lies this instant. Reed's faithful to Susan... and Herbie, but that's neither here nor there.

[chaosakita]

So, basically Sue should be worrying about Reed's "indiscretions"? You betta not lie on Spider-Woman like that. What did she ever do to you? Reed has never looked at her that way. Eventhough her pheramones call to him. Stop your lies this instant. Reed's faithful to Susan... and Herbie, but that's neither here nor there.

So uh, Reed is like Romosexual now?

[marvelman622]

Didn't Sue and Namor kiss in Fantastic Four: 1234 by Grant Morrison?

[Nefarius]

Given the potential applications Reeds powers may have on his performance in the sack,

That's why Doom hates Reed.Even if he proves that he's the most clever mind in the world,he would never be "mr fantastic" in bed:wink:

[Shaka]

I don't feel too bad for him.

Given the potential applications Reeds powers may have on his performance in the sack, I think it's very possible Sue will never cheat on Reed. And if she did, odds are she'd be pretty disappointed.

In this regard, I don't think Doom, Namor or Black Panther can measure up to Reed. Literally.

Funny you mention that, I remember reading this one FF issue by either JMS I believe where they showed Sue after having sex with Reed and she was exhausted, damn near sleep, and babbling something about "Reed I never knew you could do that"

[Umbra]

I don't feel too bad for him.

Given the potential applications Reeds powers may have on his performance in the sack, I think it's very possible Sue will never cheat on Reed. And if she did, odds are she'd be pretty disappointed.

In this regard, I don't think Doom, Namor or Black Panther can measure up to Reed. Literally.


A size does matter, but being able to stretch does not a make one better. You also have to be able to move:biggrin:

I'm pretty sure T'challa has both:cool: :biggrin:

J/K

[mgs]

Didn't Sue and Namor kiss in Fantastic Four: 1234 by Grant Morrison?
the question is of sex not other things.

[skrullover]

A size does matter, but being able to stretch does not a make one better. You also have to be able to move:biggrin:

I'm pretty sure T'challa has both:cool: :biggrin:

J/K


Reed's an explorer and adventurer who can stretch his body. He spends his life experimenting. They've been married 40 years. Add up all the inuendo.

Secondly, Namor and Sue kiss all the time (like once a year). That's not knocking boots though. She has stated he was an "ex-boyfriend" before, further she did disappear to live with Namor in the 70s when she left Reed. It's possible. Sue has always said it never happened though. Emma read her mind in that "4" issue above and proved this was true. She actually liked T'Challa ALOT more than Namor (so that issue says).

Lastly, I love reading Exiles. It's the Marvel writers excuse to see who they can pair Sue up with. She's been with Namor, Doom, Black-Bolt, T'Challa and even friggin Wolverine and Sabertooth (weird, those ones). If I were Reed hoping from alternate reality to
alternate reality as he oft does, I'd be pissed that my wife is an interdimensional floozy.

[GHalecki]

If it ever did happen, it would have been during the time when Reed was "dead". That would be the time of the Invisible Hooker costume she wore, and when Namor and Ant_Man were hanging around the team helping out.

Actually, a pretty good time for the book. Not GREAT, but pretty good.

[skrullover]

People don't understand that the hooker costume was created FOR Reed. Yet, he quickly died, and Sue went to a more conservative look issues later. During this time, someone posed as Sue and they had sex.

They could have definately done the deed during the times when she "left" Reed (i.e. Civil War, and when Reed made Frankie a vegetable). I'm sure someone (I'm looking at you Millar) will retcon this into the storyline. Maybe Sue or Namor slips up.

[Monty_Cristo]

Reed should get back with Alyssa Moy.

[agirlyman]

I think they did get busy, what happens in "Atlantis" stays in "Atlantis", but even if they didn't I know she wanted to.

[Monty_Cristo]

I think they did get busy, what happens in "Atlantis" stays in "Atlantis", but even if they didn't I know she wanted to.

gross. imagine how polluted the water in Atlantis is from all of the love-making.

[Sabaition]

I think it was suggested but so far not brought up for the Civil War story ark. Namor agrees to help if you got something from Sue. They never go into detail or show anything off panel but Namor and his army came a helping. So Im guessing he got alil something something.

[Sabaition]

People don't understand that the hooker costume was created FOR Reed. Yet, he quickly died, and Sue went to a more conservative look issues later. During this time, someone posed as Sue and they had sex.

They could have definately done the deed during the times when she "left" Reed (i.e. Civil War, and when Reed made Frankie a vegetable). I'm sure someone (I'm looking at you Millar) will retcon this into the storyline. Maybe Sue or Namor slips up.


No... That costume wasnt made FOR Reed. It was created by Sue because of influance from her Malice persona.

[areacode212]

To me it was ambiguous, and purposely done too. Marvel will never let Sue cheat on Reed, I'd rather have it be something never mentioned and in my imagination that the wife of a guy who barely spends time with her left him for a guy who she probably would've ended up with had certain things not happened, like her marriage.

Personally I think her and Namor are better for each other. Reed just never even remotely interested me, too bland. Overall that's why I like the idea of a secret love affair that may have been a one time deal or happens when Reed delves too much into his work.

Better left unspoken, and don't say it couldn't happen either, plenty of people report having at one time or another having an affair.

This is where I stand, too. Marvel will probably never ever say that Sue and Namor slept together (imagine the uproar), but in my mind, yeah, it probably did happen.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Nah, to me Sue and Namor is like Jean and Wolverine.

It sounds titilating at first glance due to the forbidden fruit/bad boy routine but once they actualy do it, the novelty wears down fast since they have nothing else in common aside from the animal attraction thing.

[skrullover]

What I love is how people want them to get together for good. Let's look at this from a writing standpoint. Namor has never kept more than a mini-series from being cancelled. They keep pushing him, and he has a fan base, but people refuse to buy his comics. Invisible woman is one of Marvel's premier females, and maybe the most popular Fantastic Four member. Do you pull Sue away and let them have a comic that will inevitably get cancelled and hurt the Fantastic Four title. Or do you have Namor show up in the Fantastic Four title as a recurring character. It's been done, and people thought it was the worst run yet (when Reed "died"). Both ideas are dumb, because Namor is boring in the long run.

So to have them together, they show up once in a while as Namor does. Sue is once again relegated to a timid woman behind a man. Let's face it, Namor is probably not a woman's lib kind of guy. WORST IDEA EVER!

The only way to keep interest is simply hint at it.

[The Black Guardian]

gross. imagine how polluted the water in Atlantis is from all of the love-making.
Diatoms are really Atlantean spermatozoa. Who knew?

Frankly, I'd rather think that Sue and Namor have had sex rather than think that she just likes to swap spit with him every so often.

[skrullover]

Personally, I think Namor is more interested in men.

[Omega Alpha]

Personally, I think Namor is more interested in fish.

[ComicbookJeff]

I couldn't see the Invisible Woman doing that but it would be a stretch for Reed not to worry about it.

Pure Genius.

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

What about this 'malice' girl, it looks like she was ready for anything
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=9375867&postcount=34
Who has read this issue?

[mikekerr3]

Reed's an explorer and adventurer who can stretch his body. He spends his life experimenting. They've been married 40 years. Add up all the inuendo.

Secondly, Namor and Sue kiss all the time (like once a year). That's not knocking boots though. She has stated he was an "ex-boyfriend" before, further she did disappear to live with Namor in the 70s when she left Reed. It's possible. Sue has always said it never happened though. Emma read her mind in that "4" issue above and proved this was true. She actually liked T'Challa ALOT more than Namor (so that issue says).

Lastly, I love reading Exiles. It's the Marvel writers excuse to see who they can pair Sue up with. She's been with Namor, Doom, Black-Bolt, T'Challa and even friggin Wolverine and Sabertooth (weird, those ones). If I were Reed hoping from alternate reality to
alternate reality as he oft does, I'd be pissed that my wife is an interdimensional floozy.

Since in the exiles she is often stone cold deadly, maybe he should be politely angry, Or just be very appreciative that she loves him in the 616.

Does it seem to anyone else that they have been subtly bring Sue more to the forefront of the MU, nothing definite just a feeling starting with the CW

[Hrist]

I was kidding, but I really have yet to stumble upon actual het fanfics. It'd be nice to see something in the Marvel fandom besides Iron Man/Captain America slash.

Oh, I've written Marvel het. :redface:

As for Sue and Namor, probably not, but I don't find it implausible that something happened, either.

[Iron Maiden]

I doubt if anything has happened between them besides the flirtation stuff. Most of the time it has been Namor trying to force himself into the situation but I really think that has gotten old. In the Lee/Kirby run, he lost interest when he took up with Lady Dorma so even Stan thought it was played out way back then. Besides, he's hooked up with Namora right now anyway and if Sue ever found out he was shacking up with Victor, that would kill any romance right there.

[Dermie]

What about this 'malice' girl, it looks like she was ready for anything
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=9375867&postcount=34
Who has read this issue?

Malice didn't sleep with anyone--she was too full of rage and hate to be interested in sex anyway; she was all about the murderous rampage. In any case, she didn't encounter Namor--she kicked the crap out of She-Hulk and Johnny before Reed found a way to snap her back to normal.

[Babylon23]

Nothing sexual happened between Sue and Namor, at least not until some writer comes along and retcons it because it would be kewl. Sometimes it's funny to watch fanboy writers vicariously live out their own inadequate sexual fantasies through comic book characters.

[Spiffy]

Phil Collins?

I don't know... I've imagined a real life Namor in my head looking more like a younger Leonard Nemoy. Maybe its because of the pointy ears.

I guess you didn't catch the recent "version" of him in Dark Avengers #1? THAT version looked, yes, like Phil Collins. Only even MORE like a street bum. :tongue:

[the4thpip]

Why would she sleep with a guy who smells like a fish and LOOKS like a hobo?


Okay, he didn't ALWAYS look like a hobo, but lately...



http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65/Wollstonecraft/izujd4.jpg

That's right, she's not sleeping with the fishes.

[humpa]

he had sex with emma frost, so that got out all his built up blonde desires

[spiderwire]

Dwayne "Rock" Johnson would make the perfect Namor but him and Jessica Alba is all kinds of wrong. Too pretty.

[CapnCaveman]

Namor would never sleep with Sue because he's gay. Come on, just look at him. If he's sleeping with anyone, it's Reed. That rivalry is nothing but supressed aggressive gay love. Ditto Reed and Doom. Former college roommates? Experimenting? Something went wrong and now they "hate" each other, yet can't leave each other alone? So gay.

[mikekerr3]

Namor would never sleep with Sue because he's gay. Come on, just look at him. If he's sleeping with anyone, it's Reed. That rivalry is nothing but supressed aggressive gay love. Ditto Reed and Doom. Former college roommates? Experimenting? Something went wrong and now they "hate" each other, yet can't leave each other alone? So gay.

You apparently didn't read AoA,:biggrin: he;s definitly got the hots for his "cousin" Namora. (no blood relation)

[Mobey Wee]

Since in the exiles she is often stone cold deadly, maybe he should be politely angry, Or just be very appreciative that she loves him in the 616.

Does it seem to anyone else that they have been subtly bring Sue more to the forefront of the MU, nothing definite just a feeling starting with the CW

I definitely noticed this. Would you say Ms. Marvel is currently Marvel's premiere Super Heroine?

[ijffdrie]

I definitely noticed this. Would you say Ms. Marvel is currently Marvel's premiere Super Heroine?

at least since Civil War.

But yeah, if you look back you can see what characters they are experimenting with to turn into A-listers and Ms Marvel is definately one of them.

[Monty_Cristo]

yes, Sue has experienced the royal colonic.

[Monty_Cristo]

Dwayne "Rock" Johnson would make the perfect Namor but him and Jessica Alba is all kinds of wrong. Too pretty.

Dwayne's head is too pineapple-shaped. he looks much more like Black Adam.

[mikekerr3]

I definitely noticed this. Would you say Ms. Marvel is currently Marvel's premiere Super Heroine?

Shes the one that they are oushing but it's strange to kill her off t do so

Karla will never be anything but a wannabe in that race since she kills randomly now, and never rose far above the level of pond scum.

[Monty_Cristo]

Shes the one that they are oushing but it's strange to kill her off t do so

Karla will never be anything but a wannabe in that race since she kills randomly now, and never rose far above the level of pond scum.

all i know is that she makes random killing look good.

[Parch]

Is Franklin a good swimmer?

[Monty_Cristo]

Is Franklin a good swimmer?

well he got there first, didn't he?

[mikekerr3]

I've been told that Brian Bendis said that Sue slept with Namor, he supposedly said that in a recent wizard book, anybody seen it? I/ve looked and could not find it in the last couple of months

[Spiffy]

I've been told that Brian Bendis said that Sue slept with Namor, he supposedly said that in a recent wizard book, anybody seen it? I/ve looked and could not find it in the last couple of months
Bendis would love that to be true, since he thrives on Soapyness occasionally, doesn't he?

[The Black Guardian]

I've been told that Brian Bendis said that Sue slept with Namor, he supposedly said that in a recent wizard book, anybody seen it? I/ve looked and could not find it in the last couple of months
The OP said it was in the January 2009 special issue.

[mikekerr3]

The OP said it was in the January 2009 special issue.

Thanks much

[IronMagnus]

I've been told that Brian Bendis said that Sue slept with Namor, he supposedly said that in a recent wizard book, anybody seen it? I/ve looked and could not find it in the last couple of months

Bendis just says it quickly in passing. He doesn't offer any proof or source. In the context of the article it's just a throwaway line.

[Iron Maiden]

Even if it did happen, I would think it would be a major storyline in the FF, not some throw away speculation by Bendis. IMO, if something major is going to happen to a character, it has to be in their "home field" or main title.

[NickGuy]

Did Namor and Invisible Woman ever have sex?

Not that we've seen.

you win the thread.

[Sabaition]

On panel it has def not ever happened.... I think most people/writers assume it happened off panel during the Civil War when Namor said his help will cost her for his help was had his cheese smile.

I dont recall ever hearing anything being showne as Namors "reward" for helping. So I think most assumed she whored herself out for something as lame as no hero registration. Which would be extremely weak when she's had the chance to bang him and cause a world peace with him and still told him get lost.

Namor's not now or ever gonna hit it. It would destroy the foundation of the FF as Marvels first family. And he offers nothing that Reed cant give Sue. Cept for potential flipper children.

[skrullover]

It's been stated before time and again. Namor likes men. Face it.

[Salvester]

I personally think it happened during Civil War, and if it did, it is kinda interesting. Ya it would kind of **** up the first family, but it would also make for some good story telling, if done correctly.

[skrullover]

Well no matter what people think. Until it is stated or shown in a comic in continuity in the 616, it has never happened.

[Monty_Cristo]

I personally think it happened during Civil War, and if it did, it is kinda interesting. Ya it would kind of **** up the first family, but it would also make for some good story telling, if done correctly.

the "first family" is already ***ed up. Franklin got his mom preggers. Johnny, at one point, thought he was marrying Ben's girlfriend. she laid an egg. a sea monster came out of the egg.

[skrullover]

Not to mention that Sue has turned villain due to the neglect of her family, and Reed's best idea of how to save her was to wallop her in the face!

[Earth2Invincible]

nope they haven't

but in the Ultimate Marvel maybe?

[mikekerr3]

Well no matter what people think. Until it is stated or shown in a comic in continuity in the 616, it has never happened.

That's pretty much it for everything, The writers BS and joke too much to be trusted as do the editors, If it's not in the book it did not happen works pretty well.

[Sabaition]

the "first family" is already ***ed up. Franklin got his mom preggers. Johnny, at one point, thought he was marrying Ben's girlfriend. she laid an egg. a sea monster came out of the egg.

STOP!!! PLEASE STOP!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I'M GONNA PISS MYSELF LAUGHING!!!

[Taskmaster]

the "first family" is already ***ed up. Franklin got his mom preggers. Johnny, at one point, thought he was marrying Ben's girlfriend. she laid an egg. a sea monster came out of the egg.

Monty this is quite possibly the greatest thing i've ever read (actually this thread has had a few good lines in it) and I applaud you sir. I wonder what a non-comic fan would think if someone told them that about the Fantastic Four, since it's all true.

[Gnarl]

Namor is a powerful mutant. Franklin is a powerful mutant. Reed and Sue are not mutants...:wink:

We've seen alternate reality versions of children of Ben and Johnny, and their powers always resemble their parents powers. I don't think they have ever been considered mutants. But Franklin is more like a supermutant of some sort. Like Bendis version of the Beyonder, a mutant with a second powersource enhancing his powers to cosmic levels.

Nah, I think Reed would have noticed if his kid was a quarter atlantean. It would take a monstrous intellectual power for someone to keep his own brain from realizing that.

[Expletive Deleted]

Namor is a powerful mutant. Franklin is a powerful mutant. Reed and Sue are not mutants.Mutants can be born to non-mutant parents. That's a fairly integral part of the mutant concept.

[CrimsonComedian]

Could it have happened off panel during Civil War? Sue went to Namor for help, but he refused saying her puppy dog eyes weren't enough. Then later on Namor came to the anti-registration guys aid at the final battle. I don't know, i think there were some implications there.

[strathcona]

Nothing sexual happened between Sue and Namor, at least not until some writer comes along and retcons it because it would be kewl. Sometimes it's funny to watch fanboy writers vicariously live out their own inadequate sexual fantasies through comic book characters.

Completely agree with this (I find we agree a lot). They have never had sex... it would completely ruin both characters if they did. That said, under JoeQ's helm, a LOT of characters have done things that don't make sense, and are very out of character for them. So I can see it being made into fact. But I really hope that the writers and editors out there have more sense than that.

[skrullover]

What's really funny about this entire thread, is that it is itself proof as to why they have NEVER had sex. The interest in the Namor/Sue thing has been a plot device for forty years now. Each time things look a little down for the sales and such, they bring in this nonsense and people buy the books to see what happens. The mystery and the questioning is as much the writer's bread and butter as the other dynamics in the family. If it is ever announced that they actually had sex or will have a relationship, it ruins interest in the book. People will simply move on. Therefore, it's within the writers best interest to NOT make it clear.

Hope that made sense.

[Iron Maiden]

Makes a lot of sense. A lot of TV shows did the same tease for years and they got worse when they finally paired up characters that only flirted with each other for years. Cancellation usually followed because viewers lost interest.

As for Franklin's paternity, from my fuzzy memory I don't think Sue and Namor were ever together again after Reed and Sue were engaged in FF#35. A couple of issues earlier in FF#33, the Lady Dorma was introduced and she becomes Namor's love interest and his pursuit of Sue comes to an end for that period. Reed also ran DNA tests of the family when Valeria Von Doom popped into existence so he would know right there if Franklin were Namor's.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/FF22v3p3B.jpg

[lunchcountersitin]

I hear that Namor, Sue, and the Scarlet Witch had this fling involving a bottle of Grappa. But then the Scarlet Witch whispered "No more threesomes" and it was erased from reality and everyone's memory.

[skrullover]

Well, Iron Maiden's picture actually confuses me. That implies (at least as far as Reed is concerned) that the Valeria Claremont brought in is ACTUALLY Doom's child.

So maybe the thread should be...have Doom and Sue ever had sex? Or better yet, will they eventually. And judging by Doom's recent fantasy world. He wants nothing more!

[Iron Maiden]

Well, it is kind of confusing anytime you mention Valeria von Doom. right after this story in FF#22, we have Doom's delayed return to the "real" Earth after he spent some time on Franklin's HR planet. But you really have the first appearance of Valeria von Doom in FF#15. When Reed, Ben and Johnny were on the Blue Area of the Moon trying to find Sue (Ronan had captured her) they came across some kind of window into an alternate future.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/FF15_BaronessSue.jpg

Alicia was creating a memorial was for the members of the FF that had died in the defense of the planet and one of the figures depicted was Doctor Doom as leader. All we know from the older version of Franklin is that it has something to do with Galactus. This is never explored any further in Claremon'ts run, which ends with #30.

Later, Valeria accidentally "time dances" into the FF's temporary HQ at Pier 4. She says Sue is her Mom but Doom is her Dad in her reality. In the meantime, Doom has moved the HR planet out of the pocket dimension but there is a Chaos Wave that threatens to wipe out both Earths. The Dreaming Celestial is the culprit and Doom teams up with Reed to defeat him. But the Celestial has one last parting shot and punishes them both...Doom goes back to the HR planet and Reed is trapped in his armor. He has to keep up the appearance of being Doom to keep Doom's generals under control. It is most likely a divergent timeline where Reed has to keep up this impersonation that results in Valeria Von Doom's birth.

[TradePaperbackTraitor]

I don't really check out that many Fantastic Four titles other than when they crossover, but from all the nuances I've read, I always assumed Namor had slept with Sue Richards. So after going through this thread and realizing that nothing ever happened, all I know is if I'm Reed Richards, I'm not letting her anywhere near that tuna smellin' Atlantian. Namor doesn't even try to hide his advances.

[Babylon23]

Completely agree with this (I find we agree a lot). They have never had sex... it would completely ruin both characters if they did. That said, under JoeQ's helm, a LOT of characters have done things that don't make sense, and are very out of character for them. So I can see it being made into fact. But I really hope that the writers and editors out there have more sense than that.

In an environment where Gwen Stacy can sleep with Norman Osbourne and father his children even though there's no real way those events can fit into the Spider-Man continuity of the time, then anything is possible and nothing is sacred. So expect it to be revealed any day now that Namor and Sue slept together and fathered a child, who will age rapidly enough to become a major threat to his parents.

[mikekerr3]

Mutants can be born to non-mutant parents. That's a fairly integral part of the mutant concept.

It the mutation follows to the next generation\ it's just a genetic characteristic for the second generation and they are not mutants.

[mikekerr3]

I don't really check out that many Fantastic Four titles other than when they crossover, but from all the nuances I've read, I always assumed Namor had slept with Sue Richards. So after going through this thread and realizing that nothing ever happened, all I know is if I'm Reed Richards, I'm not letting her anywhere near that tuna smellin' Atlantian. Namor doesn't even try to hide his advances.

Namor isn't sneaking around trying to get to Sue he is absolutely upfront about it. Creaping around is not his style.

[Iron Maiden]

I don't really check out that many Fantastic Four titles other than when they crossover, but from all the nuances I've read, I always assumed Namor had slept with Sue Richards. So after going through this thread and realizing that nothing ever happened, all I know is if I'm Reed Richards, I'm not letting her anywhere near that tuna smellin' Atlantian. Namor doesn't even try to hide his advances.

Essentially correct, so I guess I've made an impression on someone :biggrin: Namor has always been the more aggressive one in this relationship. Stan and Jack put this thing to rest way back then by creating the character of Lady Dorma.

[Gnarl]

Reed also ran DNA tests of the family when Valeria Von Doom popped into existence so he would know right there if Franklin were Namor's.

Doesn't that panel say that her paternity cannot be determined from tests, same as Franklin?

[strathcona]

In an environment where Gwen Stacy can sleep with Norman Osbourne and father his children even though there's no real way those events can fit into the Spider-Man continuity of the time, then anything is possible and nothing is sacred. So expect it to be revealed any day now that Namor and Sue slept together and fathered a child, who will age rapidly enough to become a major threat to his parents.

Ugh... Why did you have to mention that? Now some hack like Loeb or Millar will actually do this.

About Spider-Man though, I never really read much Spidey until recently. I am two issues shy of finishing Essential Spider-Man vol 8 (there is some great stuff in those classic Spider-Man comics BTW). And there was no way that Norman and Gwen could ever have had kids... it just doesn't work. So, even though I never read the JMS story with their kids, in my personal continuity, I have been pretending that it was Norman and the Gwen clone that had the kids. Sometime after the original clone story. Works for me.

[skrullover]

In an environment where Gwen Stacy can sleep with Norman Osbourne and father his children even though there's no real way those events can fit into the Spider-Man continuity of the time, then anything is possible and nothing is sacred. So expect it to be revealed any day now that Namor and Sue slept together and fathered a child, who will age rapidly enough to become a major threat to his parents.

I...uh...find it hard to believe that a woman could "hide" a pregnancy. Even the invisible woman. But the concept is an interesting one, that I have always argued for. Unless Civil War lasted well over 9 months. Even then, a pregnant woman would not be involved in a war. She did leave with Namor for two issues in the 70s, but Frank was with her.

How about some of Namor and Sue's children from alternate realities. We got Gambit from the Exiles, though he's a good guy, and we got like four other kids from that universe.

I would go for the child from the old What If? storylines. Sue and Namor had a kid, and Sue basically pushed Reed away. Then she went back to Reed later in a continuation of that storyline. They never mentioned the kid again. I'm sure that kid is mad. He's gotta be powerful. Hell, it would make more sense if he were the Marquis of Death killing all the Fantastic Fours in every universe.

[Alan2099]

So, even though I never read the JMS story with their kids, in my personal continuity, I have been pretending that it was Norman and the Gwen clone that had the kids. Sometime after the original clone story. Works for me.
Personally, whenever I'm faced with a realy stupid Spider-man storyline, I chalk it up to "Part of a convulooted plot by Mysterio,"

[mimic_616]

Well in this Marvel What if? Namor was a member of the FF and married to Sue.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6764/271ewu.jpg

[Iron Maiden]

Doesn't that panel say that her paternity cannot be determined from tests, same as Franklin?

No, Reed is saying that he tested "our son" Franklin to correlate his DNA markers with Valeria's and hers proved to be inconclusive. IIRC, when you do paternity testing in the real life situations, you can rule someone out right off the bat if the child has a different father. Another words, if Reed were not Franklin's father, he would have none of his DNA markers.

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

It the mutation follows to the next generation\ it's just a genetic characteristic for the second generation and they are not mutants.

He's half Sue and he's half Baluurian, there was a theory that some other guy was Franklin's real daddy because of all that negative zone stuff floating around. :eek: Then you got Valeria who might actually be of Von Doom stock, and because Frankie doesn't want another bloodline in the cuckoo's nest he pulls a Blastaar and blasts the unborn child to a distant part of the universe...:evilsmile: whatever way you look at this Sue has been keeping busy while Reed had his head stuck in the books :wink:

[skrullover]

So Sue's been boning Blastaar too? She gets around!

[skrullover]

Well in this Marvel What if? Namor was a member of the FF and married to Sue.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6764/271ewu.jpg

Yeah but, in that What If?, everyone ends up happy! Reed's got his own wife and kids, and so does Sue and Namor. Their kids become the next fantastic four or something.

In the other What If?, first Reed goes crazy, then Sue leaves Namor's kid, and goes back to Reed. My guess is that kid is pissed off.

[Gnarl]

No, Reed is saying that he tested "our son" Franklin to correlate his DNA markers with Valeria's and hers proved to be inconclusive. IIRC, when you do paternity testing in the real life situations, you can rule someone out right off the bat if the child has a different father. Another words, if Reed were not Franklin's father, he would have none of his DNA markers.
Actually, he says that the test are inconclusive because "the structure of her helix is partially occluded by the same elements of cosmic radiation that are present in our son Franklin".

I.e both their helixes are too occluded for testing.

Not that I actually believe Franklin is Namors son, even though it would explain why he is such an outlier in terms of power. It is because Namors facial features are simply too distinct.

[skrullover]

I don't understand the argument that Franklin's excessive power implies that he's Namor's son. Reed was the one cosmically infused with powers from some godlike being. Not Namor, who is a mutant. Wouldn't it make more sense for the two heroes whose powers were inherited from this super cosmic storm to create a godlike child?

[Gnarl]

I don't think either makes more "sense" to be frank. I'm saying it is more in line with what Bendis retconned the Beyonder to. A mutant who had his mutant powers enhanced to godlike levels by contact with a second source of those things that, in the marvel unverse, tends to give people powers.

A supermutant.

[skrullover]

I apologize as I'm still confused at the argument. Though neither makes more sense, you're right about that.

I just think if they even hinted that Namor was the father, than 40 years of FF comics just became utter shiite!

[Mississippienne]

Well, Iron Maiden's picture actually confuses me. That implies (at least as far as Reed is concerned) that the Valeria Claremont brought in is ACTUALLY Doom's child.

It does raise some questions, because it would seem that the most likely explanation is that Valeria comes from a timeline in which Reed was trapped in Doom's armor permanently -- but when Susan asks if Valeria is Doom's daughter, Reed replies that it's as clear as the features on her face. That implies to me that Reed (who remember, knew Doom back before the scarring) thinks that Valeria resembles Doom. So, I dunno.

As for Franklin, in Marvel Knights 4 it's explained that Reed has the Baxter Building rigged to deter intruders who lack the correct DNA (Richards, Storm, or Grimm). Ramades bypasses the system because, as the son of Kang (Nathaniel Richards) he carries the same y-chromosome as Reed and Franklin, and thusly the security system doesn't recognize him as an intruder. Not only does this suggest that DNA scanning is easy for Reed (and so he'd have known long ago if Franklin wasn't his) but also that he needs to update that security system, lest Kang the Conqueror waltz in undetected and make mimosas and dig through Sue's underwear drawer while they're not home.

[Iron Maiden]

Excellent point there. I had forgotten that Nathaniel Richards is an ancestor of Kang's. For years, it was thought that because of their encounter in the FF Annual #2 that Kang was related to Doom. Later on in Avengers Forever, Kang says that was a bluff that he used on Doom since Doom had him at a disadvantage when he was holding on gun on him.

Come to think of it, I think no one mentions that Kristoff Venard is Reed's half brother these days either.

[Dermie]

Come to think of it, I think no one mentions that Kristoff Venard is Reed's half brother these days either.

No one mentions Kristoff at all these days. I keep waiting for him to have some run-in with the Young Avengers though, given his connection to Cassie Lang.

[Iron Maiden]

Me too. They had a kiddie crush going on there for a while when they were living with the FF. I wonder if Reed or Sue had to give them "the talk".

[bjmorga]

Sue and Namor didn't have sex like Hulk's rampages don't accidentally kill people. Anybody who thinks Sue and Prince Namor didn't dot the "i's" and cross their "t's" is living in a fantasy world with Tom Breevort and the reader who still lives in his mom's basement. Sue's infidelity makes her a much more interesting character than the Soccer Mom she has portrayed as being.

[mikekerr3]

Sue and Namor didn't have sex like Hulk's rampages don't accidentally kill people. Anybody who thinks Sue and Prince Namor didn't dot the "i's" and cross their "t's" is living in a fantasy world with Tom Breevort and the reader who still lives in his mom's basement. Sue's infidelity makes her a much more interesting character than the Soccer Mom she has portrayed as being.

So people that don't believe that something that is never shown or never strongly implied to have happened, something that destroys 40 years of characterization for Sue, are the people living in a fantasy world?:rolleyes:

We are supposed to believe something happened that would completely destroy the FF just because a few people have sleaze on the brain? It might make her a more "interesting" character but it also destroys the basis and premise of the FF

A side question why do some people think sleazy scumbag = interesting?.

[LungerTony]

Sue and Namor didn't have sex like Hulk's rampages don't accidentally kill people. Anybody who thinks Sue and Prince Namor didn't dot the "i's" and cross their "t's" is living in a fantasy world with Tom Breevort and the reader who still lives in his mom's basement. Sue's infidelity makes her a much more interesting character than the Soccer Mom she has portrayed as being.

Hulk doesn't accidentally kill people with his rampages. It's canon and has been explained by Pak.

Namor and Sue have never had sex. If the writers wanted the couple to have sex they would have made it happen or made it so obvious there not be so much confusion out of it. Obviously they haven't. Have Sue and Namor had an emotional affair before - YES. But not physical.

I get the impression people want Sue to cheat Reed for whatever reason.

And in all seriousness, I don't believe F4 targets the audience that gains pleasure from infedility. There are other books and characters who's morals and character choices are not so righteous.

[Iron Maiden]

So people that don't believe that something that is never shown or never strongly implied to have happened, something that destroys 40 years of characterization for Sue, are the people living in a fantasy world?:rolleyes:

We are supposed to believe something happened that would completely destroy the FF just because a few people have sleaze on the brain? It might make her a more "interesting" character but it also destroys the basis and premise of the FF

A side question why do some people think sleazy scumbag = interesting?.

*sigh* so true. It also dismays me that in so many cases it seems like Hollywood always seems to have a hooker or a stripper as the only female role in a movie.

Makes me wonder if these same guys who would find a Sue who sleeps around interesting would are the ones who would beat the crap out of their girlfriend or wife if they even suspected they were sleeping around.

[Alan2099]

Anybody who thinks Sue and Prince Namor didn't dot the "i's" and cross their "t's" is living in a fantasy world with Tom Breevort and the reader who still lives in his mom's basement.
I thought the Marvel Universe was a fantasy world.

[bjmorga]

I thought the Marvel Universe was a fantasy world.
Yeah it's fantasy, but not Jonathan Edwards' fantasy world. We're not dealing with Puritanical beings here. We're dealing with what practically amounts to Gods.

I don't think her sleeping with Namor is morally right, nor is adultery. But come on... Sue isn't one to sit at home knitting on Friday night either. They may never show it "on-screen", but they don't show Sue Richards lamenting having a heavy flow that month, getting gas after eating Chili, or masturbating when Reed can't/won't meet her needs. Yet, somehow if these were real characters those types of things would be happening. Jack Bauer has to hit the can at least a coupe,l of times throughout the day. You can't tell me that Sue being whisked away a zillion times and they never even necked a little. Come on.

[Raptor]

Text says no. Subtext says maybe. Who you gonna believe?

I believe subtext.

So in otherwords...
I'll answer the OP with a confident yes...and if I'm wrong it is one of the longest running jokes in Marvel, that they did/do have hot fish frying sex.

[Alan2099]

Yeah it's fantasy, but not Jonathan Edwards' fantasy world. We're not dealing with Puritanical beings here. We're dealing with what practically amounts to Gods.

I don't think her sleeping with Namor is morally right, nor is adultery. But come on... Sue isn't one to sit at home knitting on Friday night either. They may never show it "on-screen", but they don't show Sue Richards lamenting having a heavy flow that month, getting gas after eating Chili, or masturbating when Reed can't/won't meet her needs. Yet, somehow if these were real characters those types of things would be happening. Jack Bauer has to hit the can at least a coupe,l of times throughout the day. You can't tell me that Sue being whisked away a zillion times and they never even necked a little. Come on.
To me, when you've reached the point where you're thinking about those things, you've passed the "logical conclusion" point and went straight on into "creepily over examining."

[Omega Alpha]

I think a lot of people that insist so much on the idea that the two had sex are projecting their feelings about something completely unrelated to the comics, whatever it is. And that happens all the time, really: see the hysteria characters like Henry Pym, Tony Stark, Cyclops or Reed Richards get, with A LOT of people being completely unable of being rational while talking to them.

[LungerTony]

Yeah it's fantasy, but not Jonathan Edwards' fantasy world. We're not dealing with Puritanical beings here. We're dealing with what practically amounts to Gods.


I'm not sure if I should laugh at you, mock you, or pity you, because you implying that Sue's faithfulness to her marriage vows means she must be classified as Puritanical.

There is enough ambiguity there to let you fantasize that Sue is unfaithful, and if it makes the character more interesting, I guess thats your personal preference. But to say that it Sue cheated on Reed with Namor represents canon, or a Marvel Universe factoid is just completely FALSE.

The argument though that it 'happens' even though it hasn't happened on panel is just stupid to me.
Of course Sue showers, goes to the bathroom, and all the necessary functions that a human being living in a civilized society is expected to perform - even if it is off panel. But your comparing everyday's necessities, such as using toilet paper, to cheating on your spouse. It's a dreadfully poor thought process.

[mikekerr3]

I'm not sure if I should laugh at you, mock you, or pity you, because you implying that Sue's faithfulness to her marriage vows means she must be classified as Puritanical.

There is enough ambiguity there to let you fantasize that Sue is unfaithful, and if it makes the character more interesting, I guess thats your personal preference. But to say that it Sue cheated on Reed with Namor represents canon, or a Marvel Universe factoid is just completely FALSE.

The argument though that it 'happens' even though it hasn't happened on panel is just stupid to me.
Of course Sue showers, goes to the bathroom, and all the necessary functions that a human being living in a civilized society is expected to perform - even if it is off panel. But your comparing everyday's necessities, such as using toilet paper, to cheating on your spouse. It's a dreadfully poor thought process.

I agree with you,

Can somebody explain to me how someone being a faithful wife is somehow either boring or a puritanical? Is there some rule that interesting characters can't just be ordinarily decent people?

[neverman]

I was reading newest wizard (special platinum edition for january 2009) and in an interview with bendis, they are talking about mr fantastic and they mention something about namor banging his wife

soo i was just wondering if this ever happened, because i can't remember ever hearing about namor sleeping with the invisible woman

thanks

Susan and Namor have never been depicted as having sex, but they have embraced and kissed. Once, Namor thought he had nailed Sue, but it turned out to be a shapeshifter he nailed. (This was during the '90 when Susan wore the skimpy FF suit with the "4" cut out.)

[Iron Maiden]

I'm not sure if I should laugh at you, mock you, or pity you, because you implying that Sue's faithfulness to her marriage vows means she must be classified as Puritanical.

There is enough ambiguity there to let you fantasize that Sue is unfaithful, and if it makes the character more interesting, I guess thats your personal preference. But to say that it Sue cheated on Reed with Namor represents canon, or a Marvel Universe factoid is just completely FALSE.

The argument though that it 'happens' even though it hasn't happened on panel is just stupid to me.
Of course Sue showers, goes to the bathroom, and all the necessary functions that a human being living in a civilized society is expected to perform - even if it is off panel. But your comparing everyday's necessities, such as using toilet paper, to cheating on your spouse. It's a dreadfully poor thought process.

I agree with you,

Can somebody explain to me how someone being a faithful wife is somehow either boring or a puritanical? Is there some rule that interesting characters can't just be ordinarily decent people?

Co-signing with both of you. I think the views being demonstrated by those in the "Cheatin' Heart Sue" camp are sometimes astonishingly cynical about relationships. But then in this era of where the escapades of narcissistic reality show "stars" are followed by millions, I shouldn't be surprised when "normal" becomes "abnormal".

[mikekerr3]

Co-signing with both of you. I think the views being demonstrated by those in the "Cheatin' Heart Sue" camp are sometimes astonishingly cynical about relationships. But then in this era of where the escapades of narcissistic reality show "stars" are followed by millions, I shouldn't be surprised when "normal" becomes "abnormal".


I think that some actually think that "reality TV" is somehow related to reality. that is sad to the point of being pityfull. The idea that most women and men don't cheat on their spouses is beyond the grasp of someones whose reality is created by the media.

[Salvester]

You guys act as though if Sue cheats on Reed she is an evil evil character who should be put up there with the likes of Mephisto and Bullseye.

The reason it would be interesting to me isn't because it turns her into a bad person, or even a slutty person. It turns her into a flawed person. In one terrible moment of weakness she slept with Namor. The most interesting thing would be how she dealt with it, how her family deals with it, etc. I don't want it because it is sleazy, I want it because it would be a good story telling device, and because it shows good people can make mistakes.

[LungerTony]

You guys act as though if Sue cheats on Reed she is an evil evil character who should be put up there with the likes of Mephisto and Bullseye.

The reason it would be interesting to me isn't because it turns her into a bad person, or even a slutty person. It turns her into a flawed person. In one terrible moment of weakness she slept with Namor. The most interesting thing would be how she dealt with it, how her family deals with it, etc. I don't want it because it is sleazy, I want it because it would be a good story telling device, and because it shows good people can make mistakes.

Noone suggested she is evil if she cheats or even remotely compared her to any villains in the MU at all. Your exaggerating our comments.
It's lame and poor characterization to make Sue cheat because Sue is depicted as a family women with high morals and her book is one of the most wholesome, family-type of books in the Marvel catalog.
Good people do make mistakes. Go read Daredevil. He recently cheated on his boring wife. You don't need to show good people making mistakes by wrecking the institution of marriage in F4 of all books - undoubtedly the most iconic marriage in the MU since Mary Jane has been crushed. There is enough infedility and failed marriages throughout the rest of the MU without destroying the characterization and attitude of the F4.

Go have sex with an unhappily married woman who isnt married to you and see how not interesting and fun it becomes if the affair lasts past a week.

[Monty_Cristo]

Sue is no role model.

[mikekerr3]

You guys act as though if Sue cheats on Reed she is an evil evil character who should be put up there with the likes of Mephisto and Bullseye.

The reason it would be interesting to me isn't because it turns her into a bad person, or even a slutty person. It turns her into a flawed person. In one terrible moment of weakness she slept with Namor. The most interesting thing would be how she dealt with it, how her family deals with it, etc. I don't want it because it is sleazy, I want it because it would be a good story telling device, and because it shows good people can make mistakes.

If sue sleeps with namor it will be by intent, she's not a child that can just go oops,

Sleeping with Namor means that she failed at one of the two mos important duties she or any other married person has. Adultery also means that from then on Reed can't trust her, and that her family is less important than her desires.

Adultery does make someone a bad person if only from the betrayal and deceit involved, I some would cheat on their spouse why would anyone else trust them on anything?

[mikekerr3]

Sue is no role model.

Says, the Ant-Man fan:biggrin:

[Monty_Cristo]

Says, the Ant-Man fan:biggrin:

doubly so for Ant-Man.

[bjmorga]

I'm not sure if I should laugh at you, mock you, or pity you, because you implying that Sue's faithfulness to her marriage vows means she must be classified as Puritanical.

There is enough ambiguity there to let you fantasize that Sue is unfaithful, and if it makes the character more interesting, I guess thats your personal preference. But to say that it Sue cheated on Reed with Namor represents canon, or a Marvel Universe factoid is just completely FALSE.

The argument though that it 'happens' even though it hasn't happened on panel is just stupid to me.
Of course Sue showers, goes to the bathroom, and all the necessary functions that a human being living in a civilized society is expected to perform - even if it is off panel. But your comparing everyday's necessities, such as using toilet paper, to cheating on your spouse. It's a dreadfully poor thought process.
I'm not sure if I should mock you for not seeing the point. It's just my opinion. I think they probably have knocked boots. Reed can be a a pretty task-oriented, self-centered guy. I wouldn't classify their marriage as anything normal to what you and I would have. Dr. Doom doesn't knock down my door in the evenings. If he did, my wife would kick his ass.

[Iron_Stark]

Sue is no role model.

Anyone that abandons their children are not role models.

[skrullover]

double post

[skrullover]

The reason it would be interesting to me isn't because it turns her into a bad person, or even a slutty person. It turns her into a flawed person. In one terrible moment of weakness she slept with Namor. The most interesting thing would be how she dealt with it, how her family deals with it, etc. I don't want it because it is sleazy, I want it because it would be a good story telling device, and because it shows good people can make mistakes.

This isn't a terrible argument. And I'm strong in the camp that they did not have sex and that it shouldn't be brought out to be canon.

It would be an interesting story. However, as stated earlier, it does change the dynamic of the FF and the theme of the "family" super-hero team drastically. There are other books to read about such flawed characters. The FF is about a family. While family's go through troubled times in real life, things like infidelity destroy them. Let's look at the possibilities of how the family would deal with it:

1. Reed never trusts her again. (another marriage where people hate each other or can never get past one mistake; look around the MU, you'll find others)

2. Reed, Johnny and/or Ben Grimm attempt to kill Namor (one would in real life, and that's what you want right)

3. Then there is the kids. Do we really need such things explained to them. This is a family book. I don't want story arcs where the children HATE their mother. Which is what would occur. I have never known a child who learns of such and affair to take it well in any form. Valeria is a genius now, and would completely understand about the betrayal. Unless they flat out lie to the children.

4. Everyone accepts it an moves on

If you believe that number 4 would occur, you do not live in this reality or any other.

Though going back to number 3, Franklin would just get mad and restructure history so that it never happened.

[Iron Maiden]

I agree that if it had happened, there's no way to go back. You make a very good point that the reality is that more often than not, the marriage collapses then you lose what makes the FF pretty unique in comicdom. After OMD, we don't need another break-up.

[Babylon23]

Sue and Namor didn't have sex like Hulk's rampages don't accidentally kill people. Anybody who thinks Sue and Prince Namor didn't dot the "i's" and cross their "t's" is living in a fantasy world with Tom Breevort and the reader who still lives in his mom's basement.

So believing that Sue and Namor didn't have sex means you live in your mum's basement but imagining that fictional characters are having sex and committing adultery means your not a sad, isolated individual whose living out his fantasies vicariously through comics.

Riiiight:rolleyes:

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

It will be great when Franklin Richards finally does grow up, Sue will be able to leave Reed to his books and move in with Doom or Fish-Sticks

The ageless kid is the only reason they stay together

[skrullover]

It will be great when Franklin Richards finally does grow up, Sue will be able to leave Reed to his books and move in with Doom or Fish-Sticks

The ageless kid is the only reason they stay together

It's great to see people make comments who probably have never read a FF comic past the early nineties.

They have TWO kids. And I realize that the statement was a joke, but there are a lot of people who make this mistake.

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

Personally, I think Namor is more interested in fish.

What about Doom? There have been lots times its been suggested Doom got into Sue's bed.

Or he's been there when Richards wasn't

Delivers Sue's baby? Once again Doom makes Reed look silly
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/175/doom6.jpg

[Umbra]

You guys act as though if Sue cheats on Reed she is an evil evil character who should be put up there with the likes of Mephisto and Bullseye.

The reason it would be interesting to me isn't because it turns her into a bad person, or even a slutty person. It turns her into a flawed person. In one terrible moment of weakness she slept with Namor. The most interesting thing would be how she dealt with it, how her family deals with it, etc. I don't want it because it is sleazy, I want it because it would be a good story telling device, and because it shows good people can make mistakes.

Why does every character has to be flawed? lol

Sue is fine the way she is, without cheating. Like it was said in that other panel in this thread. She thought more about T'challa then Namor, and she never did anything with him. so right there we have her saying she did nothing.

Now we can just leave it at that.

I still don't understand how cheating makes a character more intresting? But I guess whatever floats your boat.

[jlmoor]

I think Reed should wind up cheating on Sue with someone and then Sue should get to have a one night stand with Namor. That way they can both be "bad" but everyone would get some. Namor had a point when he told Reed off about not being there for his family. Especially when Reed starts bitching about Sue being needy in front of Namor.

[Salvester]

First of all, I want to say I don't support cheating, and all that. However, what being said....


The main reason I think it happened would be because it has a lot of good story telling potential. I mean, in a world where people can die and come back, it is possible to tell an adultery tale.

The reason why I think it would be interesting is because it is the FF, when you think of Fantastic Four, you think of the family and all that goodness. I mean, when She-Hulk and Emma Frost sleep around, people are like "Ya....duh." But if someone said "Sue did Namor", is has a stronger reaction. More of a WTF!?

And a lot of those reactions are negative and understandable. It is kinda sleezy, attention grabbing and all that. I can understand why there would be reservations and people against it.

But, if it was done correctly, and very character driven, it could be an excellent excellent story. I mean, if you are going to do a book about family, do it about family, and this stuff happens in families.

The biggest argument against it is that it would ruin FF Continuity. I understand that, I really do. But make a miniseries about it, hell Marvel MAX it. I think there is just a lot of story telling potential about it, and if done tastefully, it would be very interesting.

[jlmoor]

How many AU stories have them getting together? I know that the alt. future (or future) version of Sue in Ult. FF Sue and Namor were together.

[Iron Maiden]

As others have said.... it will never happen now that Sue and Reed have 2 children. After OMD, I think you'd want at least one marriage to stay in tact in Marvel. The cheating thing by either would be a point of no return IMO.

[Salvester]

As others have said.... it will never happen now that Sue and Reed have 2 children. After OMD, I think you'd want at least one marriage to stay in tact in Marvel. The cheating thing by either would be a point of no return IMO.

You under estimate Joe Q's hatred of commitment!!!!

[Grapeweasel]

It was the '60s.

Everyone did.

Your parents probably had sex with Sue and Namor.....

[mikekerr3]

It was the '60s.

Everyone did.

Your parents probably had sex with Sue and Namor.....

I remeber the sities, and Don't remeber them like that at all, the 70's maybe:wink:

[Shadey10]

Forget Namor what about T' Challa? They skinny dipped together in his lake an almost had sex before they stopped themselves lol.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=206920&page=214

[Sighphi]

Nobody saw anything.
They were invisible.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH!!!

[Monty_Cristo]

Forget Namor what about T' Challa? They skinny dipped together in his lake an almost had sex before they stopped themselves lol.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=206920&page=214

wow. that was creepier than i think it was intended to be. T'challa's one of my favorite characters but that story was all sorts of wrong. Emma Frost eating a hot dog and french fries is about as likely as Galactus switching to tofu.

[Iron Maiden]

Forget Namor what about T' Challa? They skinny dipped together in his lake an almost had sex before they stopped themselves lol.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=206920&page=214

Eh, but Marvel Knights 4 was not in continuity. That story, like Morrison's FF 1234 doesn't count in the real MU. One clue, in Knights 4, Sue took a job teaching to make ends meet. She doesn't have a degree in education in Lee/Kirby's FF. Another clue.... Emma and Sue never hang out. In fact I can't see her hanging around with Alicea or Sharon Ventura/She Thing either.

Roberto Aguirre Sacasa was going to write the FF when Waid was fired. Fan uproar brought him back and RAS was given the Knights title as the consolation prize (he did get to work with Steve McNiven on the early issues though). It was totally out of sync with Waid's ff when Jemas had to swallow it and bring Waid back.

[Daouda]

This comic was great!

Loved the 60's period art & writing style!

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/MarvelKnights-4021page14.jpg


http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/MarvelKnights-4021page15.jpg

I daresay T'Challa's feet wasn't the only thing Sue could feel! :biggrin:

Reed & Sue are Marvel's first family and I would be disheartened to know Sue really strayed but this makes me chuckle.:smile:

Thanks for the up loads Freakzeek!


Excelsior!

Daoud

[Monty_Cristo]

Eh, but Marvel Knights 4 was not in continuity.

that story where she made out with Namor was in continuity.

[Mechano]

i would really like to think that reed and sue's marriage is untouchable... we need at least one in the mu that is. i don't mind subby hitting on sue and sue flirting back a little, but i think the whole dynamic of the ff is built on their commitment to each other.

[Iron Maiden]

that story where she made out with Namor was in continuity.

Not so sure about that one either. The entire Marvel Knights 4 run is suspect when you put it side by side with Waid's, which was running concurrently most of the time.

[Monty_Cristo]

Not so sure about that one either. The entire Marvel Knights 4 run is suspect when you put it side by side with Waid's, which was running concurrently most of the time.

it wasn't a marvel knights issue. i don't count that as canon either.

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=55922740036%2050%20NEWS

[Iron Maiden]

Oh, not that one again. That wasn't Sue... that was some sorceror guy whose name I can't remember that was a shape shifter.

[FZ1]

Namor McKenzie and Susan Storm have had, and continue to have, nasty messy sex on a regular basis, often in the closet where Reed keeps his lab coats.

[nikbackm]

Eh, but Marvel Knights 4 was not in continuity. That story, like Morrison's FF 1234 doesn't count in the real MU. One clue, in Knights 4, Sue took a job teaching to make ends meet. She doesn't have a degree in education in Lee/Kirby's FF. Another clue.... Emma and Sue never hang out. In fact I can't see her hanging around with Alicea or Sharon Ventura/She Thing either.

Sue seemed to refer to the X-Men/FF crossover during the X4 mini in this story though. That was the reason Emma was invited to the girls night out.

[Drake84]

Namor McKenzie and Susan Storm have had, and continue to have, nasty messy sex on a regular basis, often in the closet where Reed keeps his lab coats.

Really?

For those of you who would believe Sue has cheated on Reed w/ Namor, you should read issue 435 of the FF, back in 1998. In it, Namor had her dead to rights, in they're salt water pool back @ the Baxter building. They could have done it and no one would have known. Instead, Sue, nicely and sweetly, rejected Namor's attempt to lure her to the "Point of No Return," and stated, for like the 100th time, that she loves Reed w/ "all her heart, and wouldn't betray that love." Now.. does that sound like a woman who would have cheated on her husband, given the situation both we're in? Granted, over the past decade or so, Reed has been written pretty poorly by numerous writters and artists w/ regards to being a father and a husband, but you can't take away the history both Sue and Reed share, given they first fell in love when she was 13 and he was 20.

Now.. you can assume she might have done it w/ Namor in his series "Namor, The Submariner," back when Reed was presumed dead, but that didn't happen in the FF series, did it? No.. it happened in Namor's and gee... I wonder why they included that scene (The one where she pursued him to a waterfall, dropped a rose on his arm, and made out w/ him w/ being invisible), other then to drum up sells. You can also, I guess, believe they might have had sex in that joke of a series, FF 1234 done by Grant Morrison. Sure.. she was ready to have a full blown affair w/ Namor, because Reed hasn't spoken to her in 36 hours?? Come on, he can go days w/o speaking to her and that never bothered her in the past. And as far as issue 21 of MK 4, where she had clearly said she has never cheated on him to all her "girls" @ the hot dog stand, I firmly believe that "rump through the jungle" was BS. They rectoned one issue, I think 51 or 52 back in the 60's, and perverted it to where Sue was acting like a 21 year old blonde bimbo easily attracted to anything w/ royalty and a swinging d^%$#. I mean come on, does that sound like Sue Storm?

Lastly, does anyone remember issue four of The Illuminati? Namor, straight from his own drawn mouth, stated he tried to get Sue to leave him but couldn't due to that fact that she "loves him completely." Now.. does that sound like a man who's had sex w/ a married woman? He was practically biting his tongue when he was saying it. And if he can bite his own tongue, why can't the people that think that Sue would have had sex w/ him during the past 40+ years bit they're own?

BTW, sorry, I'm kinda new and I would have posted each scan proving my points but don't know how. Just take my word for it :).

[Pax kal]

Yes Sue was what 13? The very first of her teenage years, a few months earlier and she was a baby. There was always something just so WoodyAllen-ish about their relationship.If Sue wants to have a life and date other people that's great
Reed can rub people the wrong way because there was always something creepy or some baby snatching thing going on with their love story.
http://www.zimbio.com/Nina+Garcia/articles/PnP3plnjoIN/New+Trophy+Wives+Top+Media+Moguls+via+Marie
Sue was a Trophy Wife

http://www.marieclaire.com/cm/marieclaire/images/EO/mcx-trophy-wives-allen-lgn.jpg

[jlmoor]

[QUOTE=Drake84;9921765]

Lastly, does anyone remember issue four of The Illuminati? Namor, straight from his own drawn mouth, stated he tried to get Sue to leave him but couldn't due to that fact that she "loves him completely." Now.. does that sound like a man who's had sex w/ a married woman? He was practically biting his tongue when he was saying it. And if he can bite his own tongue, why can't the people that think that Sue would have had sex w/ him during the past 40+ years bit they're own?
QUOTE]
That issue is why I think Sue should leave Reed for Namor. Okay I guess not really since it is nice to have one famly that has stayed together, but Reed bitching about Sue being needy in front of Namor was petty, stupid and in extremely poor taste. Reed is the dumbest smart guy in the MU.

[Drake84]

They could have done w/o Reed bitching infront of the guys for him not being there enough for her, especially after everything she has done for him and her family. I do agree his comments make him completely ignorant as to how great he has it and it frustrates me that he isn't written as a more loving and sympathetic husband/father. Maybe Hickman's new serious will rememdy this long, overdue makeover for Reed.

[jlmoor]

They could have done w/o Reed bitching infront of the guys for him not being there enough for her, especially after everything she has done for him and her family. I do agree his comments make him completely ignorant as to how great he has it and it frustrates me that he isn't written as a more loving and sympathetic husband/father. Maybe Hickman's new serious will rememdy this long, overdue makeover for Reed.

So far Hickman has done a good job of at least acknowledging that he knows he has some stuff to work on. But after that Illuminati issue I wanted Namor to do Sue right there in front of Reed. At least Black Bolt was smart enough to make a joke out if it.

[Iron Maiden]

Sue seemed to refer to the X-Men/FF crossover during the X4 mini in this story though. That was the reason Emma was invited to the girls night out.

Still, it doesn't account for Sue being a teacher (she's not) and it not being in sync with Mark Waid's FF. Marvel Knights 4 had no bearing on the main FF title. As for the Illuminati issue.... it was by Bendis so that it explains it right there. He believes in the Namor / Sue thing even though there's nothing in canon to back it up.

[icctrombone]

[QUOTE=Daouda;9919676]This comic was great!

Loved the 60's period art & writing style!

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/MarvelKnights-4021page14.jpg


http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/MarvelKnights-4021page15.jpg

I daresay T'Challa's feet wasn't the only thing Sue could feel! :biggrin:




LOL LOL LOL LMAO!!!!

[icctrombone]

Oh, not that one again. That wasn't Sue... that was some sorceror guy whose name I can't remember that was a shape shifter.



I think it was Lyra -a namor enemy. It resulted in a son for namor.

[Monty_Cristo]

Oh, not that one again. That wasn't Sue... that was some sorceror guy whose name I can't remember that was a shape shifter.

that's what you said the last time i showed you the link. and the next post was someone else backing me up on it. the shape shifter impersonated Sue at the beginning of the issue. at the end of the issue, real Sue approaches Namor. she goes invisible to make out with him. the captions hint at it too. just read the book.

[FZ1]

[QUOTE=Daouda;9919676]This comic was great!

Loved the 60's period art & writing style!

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/MarvelKnights-4021page14.jpg


http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/MarvelKnights-4021page15.jpg

I daresay T'Challa's feet wasn't the only thing Sue could feel! :biggrin:




LOL LOL LOL LMAO!!!!

By the gray pubes of Odin's elfen uncle, that is the funniest thing I've ever read. Who wrote that dialogue? Yeeks.

Anyway, you valiant defenders of Susie's chastity, Mrs. Storm was INVISIBLE during her countless dalliances with half the men and all the women of the MU, not to mention the big grin she put on Jughead's face. Check it out. Nearly every panel in which she doesn't appear, she's quite invisibly indulging in forbidden and perverse crimes against god and nature.

[Iron Maiden]

By the gray pubes of Odin's elfen uncle, that is the funniest thing I've ever read. Who wrote that dialogue? Yeeks.

Anyway, you valiant defenders of Susie's chastity, Mrs. Storm was INVISIBLE during her countless dalliances with half the men and all the women of the MU, not to mention the big grin she put on Jughead's face. Check it out. Nearly every panel in which she doesn't appear, she's quite invisibly indulging in forbidden and perverse crimes against god and nature.

Riiiiight...... I guess it's time for your meds. :biggrin:

[strathcona]

I think it was Lyra -a namor enemy. It resulted in a son for namor.

Close. It was Lyra, a long time Namor foe just pretending to be Sue. But it did not end up with Namor getting Lyra pregnant. You see, a key point of the Namor series was that human/Atlantean hybrids are sterile and cannot have children. Namorita was Namora's clone. Lyra eventually showed up with her artificially aged son Lyron, claiming that he was Namor's son from that meeting. But actually Lyra had also hooked up with Leon MacKenzie who was the grandson of Leonard MacKenzie, Namor's father (thus making Leon Namor's nephew), who was a full-blooded human. They had had the child Lyron, who was half human/half Lemurian.

The recent Namor mini (during The Initiative) did have Namor having had a son, Kamar, with a full-blooded Atlantean, but that actually doesn't make sense since it was established that he was sterile.

[Iron Maiden]

Close. It was Lyra, a long time Namor foe just pretending to be Sue. But it did not end up with Namor getting Lyra pregnant. You see, a key point of the Namor series was that human/Atlantean hybrids are sterile and cannot have children. Namorita was Namora's clone. Lyra eventually showed up with her artificially aged son Lyron, claiming that he was Namor's son from that meeting. But actually Lyra had also hooked up with Leon MacKenzie who was the grandson of Leonard MacKenzie, Namor's father (thus making Leon Namor's nephew), who was a full-blooded human. They had had the child Lyron, who was half human/half Lemurian.

The recent Namor mini (during The Initiative) did have Namor having had a son, Kamar, with a full-blooded Atlantean, but that actually doesn't make sense since it was established that he was sterile.

So what was Kamar's parentage? Namor and Lady Dorma? I had never heard of him before that mini. I do wish that they would give Namor his own queen though.

I think Marvel is trying to jettison Byrne's idea that as a hybrid Namor should not be able to reproduce. Now it's more popular to call him a mutant since he is the only Atlantean with wings at his ankles besides Namorita IIRC.

[Superbeast]

Keep in mind BND and HOM both warped the MU with unexpected results including Hawkeye's rebirth. Maybe one of them also made Namor's swimmers fully functioning.

[strathcona]

So what was Kamar's parentage? Namor and Lady Dorma? I had never heard of him before that mini. I do wish that they would give Namor his own queen though.

I think Marvel is trying to jettison Byrne's idea that as a hybrid Namor should not be able to reproduce. Now it's more popular to call him a mutant since he is the only Atlantean with wings at his ankles besides Namorita IIRC.

Kamar's mother was an unknown Atlantean. I don't remember the details.

I do not like the idea of Namor being considered a mutant. I can't say why, it just seems off to me.

[Talisman]

Close. It was Lyra, a long time Namor foe just pretending to be Sue. But it did not end up with Namor getting Lyra pregnant. You see, a key point of the Namor series was that human/Atlantean hybrids are sterile and cannot have children. Namorita was Namora's clone. Lyra eventually showed up with her artificially aged son Lyron, claiming that he was Namor's son from that meeting. But actually Lyra had also hooked up with Leon MacKenzie who was the grandson of Leonard MacKenzie, Namor's father (thus making Leon Namor's nephew), who was a full-blooded human. They had had the child Lyron, who was half human/half Lemurian.

The recent Namor mini (during The Initiative) did have Namor having had a son, Kamar, with a full-blooded Atlantean, but that actually doesn't make sense since it was established that he was sterile.
He could have been a clone ala X-23, which was a clone, but not really.
Kamar's mother was an unknown Atlantean. I don't remember the details.

I do not like the idea of Namor being considered a mutant. I can't say why, it just seems off to me.
Talk to Stan and Jack about that one.
http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/uncanny-x-men/6-16.jpg

[FZ1]

Says, the Ant-Man fan:biggrin:

Hyurk, hyurk!

[Pax kal]

I...uh...find it hard to believe that a woman could "hide" a pregnancy. Even the invisible woman. But the concept is an interesting one, that I have always argued for. Unless Civil War lasted well over 9 months. Even then, a pregnant woman would not be involved in a war. She did leave with Namor for two issues in the 70s, but Frank was with her.

How about some of Namor and Sue's children from alternate realities. We got Gambit from the Exiles, though he's a good guy, and we got like four other kids from that universe.

I would go for the child from the old What If? storylines. Sue and Namor had a kid, and Sue basically pushed Reed away. Then she went back to Reed later in a continuation of that storyline. They never mentioned the kid again. I'm sure that kid is mad. He's gotta be powerful. Hell, it would make more sense if he were the Marquis of Death killing all the Fantastic Fours in every universe.



* "Ms. Invisible Girl did not inhale."

* "I did not have sexual relations with that woman. [Pointing to a different woman:] I had sexual relations with that woman."

* "I did not have sexuial relations with that invisible woman, she had them with ME! Who da man, b^tch? Who da man?"

* "I did not have sexual relations with that woman [Hillary]."

* Dress? Which Dress - blue dress? blue fan 4 dress would that be Hillary's cosplay uniform!

[Pax kal]

her world is on fire!





http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7320/sosueme.jpg





and there's......dan di dum dum,

dan di dum dum DOOM!

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7320/sosueme.jpg

[icctrombone]

When I think of all the silly things various writers have done with Doom...

[skrullover]

What about Doom? There have been lots times its been suggested Doom got into Sue's bed.

Or he's been there when Richards wasn't

Delivers Sue's baby? Once again Doom makes Reed look silly
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/175/doom6.jpg

While there has never been any indication that Doom got with Sue in the past, there has certainly been alot of hints implying that he will in the future. There was the future Reed, Ben and Johnny see in FF v3 #15 where Sue marries Doom, and then the potential future where Valeria comes from (who originally was stated to be the child of Doom and Sue, and even Reed thought this to be true). Further, we have seen Doom's ultimate vision for his own future. In one instance he is married to Sue and she's having his kid. In the other she's an integral part.

I am more interested in this dynamic than the Namor/Sue thing. There are alot more interesting stories to tell. What better way to shove it in Reed's smartass face.

[JulyDarth]

So Sue's been boning Blastaar too? She gets around!

That's a lie

Namor - yes its been implied many times, they pushed it as far as they can for a faimly friendly comic. This is not Watchmen its Marvel so if you're going to read about Sue and Namor without becoming a hardcore graphic

Doom - yes she probably cheated which lead to the whole who's your Daddy with Sue's kids

Black Panther - I don't think so, but she probably has feelings for him

Blastaar - ridiculous accusation, people who say this are Sue bashers

[IronMagnus]

Blastaar - ridiculous accusation, people who say this are Sue bashers

Annihilus, then?

[witchboy]

The whole Doom and Sue as Valeria's parents in that AU was confusing, but if I understood it I thought it was heavily implied that it was actually Reed impersonating Doom that had married Sue and fathered Valeria. Around that time in the FF Reed was stuck in the Doom armor and was impersonating Doom.
I did hate the fugly Namor art in the Dark Illuminati. Namor is hot, if possibly exotic and alien looking.

[Suicide Squad Fan]

Forget Sue and Namor, anyone else ever wonder about Reed and Lady Dorma?
"I'll show you 'tit-for-tat', point-eared m*****f***er!"

[Monty_Cristo]

her world is on fire!





http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7320/sosueme.jpg


*squints* is that George Foreman?!

[Iron Maiden]

The whole Doom and Sue as Valeria's parents in that AU was confusing, but if I understood it I thought it was heavily implied that it was actually Reed impersonating Doom that had married Sue and fathered Valeria. Around that time in the FF Reed was stuck in the Doom armor and was impersonating Doom..


Marvel's been a bit vague about this... in the online dictionary, this is the entry...

Appearances can be deceiving. Franklin Richards, the couple's first child, felt a deep loss over the sister he would have had; unconsciously guided by Omniversal Guardian Roma, he secretly used his vast psionic powers to travel back in time and save his sister, taking her from her native reality (Earth-616) and sending her "someplace else" - an alternate future where she was raised by another Invisible Woman who had married a heroic Doctor Doom after the death of her first husband. It's unclear whether this timeline's Invisible Woman somehow gave birth to Valeria, or if she was delivered to her new family as a newborn infant; whatever the case, they raised her as their own, and she grew up considering Dr. Doom to be her father. Roma, who had her own plans for the child, apparently kept a watchful eye on Valeria, ensuring her well-being.

But I know someone at another board posted that he met Claremont at a convention and he asked him about Valeria. He confirmed what you're thinking, that it was still Reed but for some reason he had to continue the masquerade because Doom' generals were still around and it was to keep the peace. Apparently they conquered the planet but Reed was keeping every thing under control but in Doom's armor. Again, another alternate future.
I did hate the fugly Namor art in the Dark Illuminati. Namor is hot, if possibly exotic and alien looking.

Yes, definitely like this...


... and not this. I don't know what Maleev was thinking. Maybe he used Bendis for photo reference.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/Doom%20and%20Namor/SI_Dark_Reign_pg7.jpg

[Monty_Cristo]

Kamar's mother was an unknown Atlantean. I don't remember the details.

did anyone ever refer to him as K-Mart by accident?

[witchboy]

My memory is starting to come back to me now. I remember that Valeria the teen turned out to be Reed and Sue's baby that she lost from 616 and Franklin sent her to the AU. I thought that Franklin magicly implanted Valeria in the other Sue who actually gave birth to her. And then later Franklin turned Valeria back into a fetus and put her back in Sue to finish the pregnancy and gave birth to her, which is crazy. I wish they had kept Valeria as a teen and part of the family, I liked her better as a junior member of the team and she was still very much their child and part of the family already. Not that I hate lil Val or nothing, she's cute and all.

[johnstang2]

[QUOTE=Daouda;9919676]This comic was great!

Loved the 60's period art & writing style!

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/MarvelKnights-4021page14.jpg


http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/Freakzeek_2009/MarvelKnights-4021page15.jpg

I daresay T'Challa's feet wasn't the only thing Sue could feel! :biggrin:




LOL LOL LOL LMAO!!!!

Will someone please post the next page of this comic?:cool:

[Hypestyle]

sue has always been true blue.. not sure why folks want to portray her as a....

[jlmoor]

OMG how did this thread get resurrected?? Lol.

I still haven’t seen anywhere that she made it with him, but they’ve lip locked through the years. And Morrison’s take was that Sue was about a hot flash away from jumping Namor in a second. She seemed really conflicted about not running off with him. It was weird. She didn't even really seem to mind when he tried to kill Johnny and still went off with him.


Can't blame a girl for a little transgression, he's prett hot. But I don't think anyone has come up with panels that imply that she slept with him.

[johnstang2]

OMG how did this thread get resurrected?? Lol.

I still haven’t seen anywhere that she made it with him, but they’ve lip locked through the years. And Morrison’s take was that Sue was about a hot flash away from jumping Namor in a second. She seemed really conflicted about not running off with him. It was weird. She didn't even really seem to mind when he tried to kill Johnny and still went off with him.


Can't blame a girl for a little transgression, he's prett hot. But I don't think anyone has come up with panels that imply that she slept with him.

Simple. I want to tsee the next page of the Mk 4 #21 that was posted in this thread and cant find anywhere else.

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE POST THE NEXT PAGE, THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[skrullover]

I tried finding the next page. Can't. But honestly, nothing happens. She just leaves.

I'll bet my money that Psycho-man did the hibbity dibbity with her though! Think about it. He completely manipulated and made her evil. Plus he got her into that outfit!

[Stantheman23]

Sue is a big ho

[JulyDarth]

Yes, definitely like this...


... and not this. I don't know what Maleev was thinking. Maybe he used Bendis for photo reference.



wow Namor is so full of fail in that pic

[strathcona]

Why does this thread keep coming back up?

They did not sleep together. There are no comics that even hint that they did.

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

Doesn't that panel say that her paternity cannot be determined from tests, same as Franklin?

You should check out the WhatIf Spider-Man Joined The Four? In case you're wondering, it leads to Sue feeling like a fifth wheel and spending days having sex with Fishface

[Frank]

I don't think so... and even if Reed were out of the picture I don't think they ever should.

It's sort of like Wolverien and Jean Grey... the whole "forgidden fruit" aspect is really a big part of the fun.

The minute they ever really do hook up, I think a lot of the mystique over it will pretty much evaporate.

It did not even go that far. Wolvie really loved Jean and planted a few french kisses a few times. But Namor and Susie is merely some sort of far away attraction.

[Greg Anderson]

Heh heh

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfu5ehKgj81qcwwqoo1_500.jpg

:biggrin:

[Frank]

Marvel's been a bit vague about this... in the online dictionary, this is the entry...

Appearances can be deceiving. Franklin Richards, the couple's first child, felt a deep loss over the sister he would have had; unconsciously guided by Omniversal Guardian Roma, he secretly used his vast psionic powers to travel back in time and save his sister, taking her from her native reality (Earth-616) and sending her "someplace else" - an alternate future where she was raised by another Invisible Woman who had married a heroic Doctor Doom after the death of her first husband. It's unclear whether this timeline's Invisible Woman somehow gave birth to Valeria, or if she was delivered to her new family as a newborn infant; whatever the case, they raised her as their own, and she grew up considering Dr. Doom to be her father. Roma, who had her own plans for the child, apparently kept a watchful eye on Valeria, ensuring her well-being.

But I know someone at another board posted that he met Claremont at a convention and he asked him about Valeria. He confirmed what you're thinking, that it was still Reed but for some reason he had to continue the masquerade because Doom' generals were still around and it was to keep the peace. Apparently they conquered the planet but Reed was keeping every thing under control but in Doom's armor. Again, another alternate future.


Yes, definitely like this...


... and not this. I don't know what Maleev was thinking. Maybe he used Bendis for photo reference.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/Doom%20and%20Namor/SI_Dark_Reign_pg7.jpg

So BAD. That's what happens when you're using photo references. I hate that practice. If he wanted to use a real like person, use Vincent Cassell at least.

[Frank]

Heh heh

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfu5ehKgj81qcwwqoo1_500.jpg

:biggrin:

lol damn those filthy British writers!

[Joey Deadcat]

Heh heh

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfu5ehKgj81qcwwqoo1_500.jpg

:biggrin:

*cue funky bassline*

[SquidSquod]

I think it's time Namor gets his own "Mera". He doesn't need to knock the door of the FF franchise to get some love.

[Fire Knight]

I think it's time Namor gets his own "Mera". He doesn't need to knock the door of the FF franchise to get some love.

What about namora and namorita?? if you really want forbidden fruit why don't do incest :tongue:

[Joey Deadcat]

What about namora and namorita?? if you really want forbidden fruit why don't do incest :tongue:

Don't the both of them have a huge crush on him, actually? I remember in Agents Of Atlas it was revealed that more than anything Namora just really wants to bed her cousin.

[Iron Maiden]

The Final Jeopardy Answer is ......NO

I think Hickman settled this with some finality


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/Fantastic%20Four%20Misc/Sue%20Pix/ff587pg15.jpg

[Slipstream777]

Namor shows up when Reed is too busy tinkering with his portal to the negative zone and plays this for Sue...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh6lGI1bOkw

[ZooperSaiyan]

Sue was giving Spider-Man I wanna sex you up vibes, did you see the latest comics?


and she hooked up with Panther and Doom a few times



http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7320/sosueme.jpg

in defense of Sue her husband Reed is lame

[Rheged]

Heh heh

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfu5ehKgj81qcwwqoo1_500.jpg

:biggrin:

Heh heh heh, indeed. :biggrin: I love Morrison and Jae Lee's Namor in that mini-series.


The Final Jeopardy Answer is ......NO

I think Hickman settled this with some finality


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/Fantastic%20Four%20Misc/Sue%20Pix/ff587pg15.jpg

I dunno ... the next page reveals Namor doesn't seem to mind that ... and Sue seems to be all too familiar to his reaction. Though, to be honest, I thought that scene was a little off on both their parts.

[arachne_azure]

Heh heh

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfu5ehKgj81qcwwqoo1_500.jpg

:biggrin:

Okay someone wanted some mood music (http://youtu.be/VJFehnt4VhM) for the pic, well here it is for your enjoyment :biggrin: (you pervs :tongue:)

[johnstang2]

I was reading Sue's wiki bio and it said that some of the alternater Earth's Sue's has not only cheated on Reed with Namor but also left Reed to become Namor's Alantian wife. Reed, in his jealously, convinced the surface world to proclaim war on Atlantis but once he got there and saw how happy Sue was with Namor and had given him some children he left.

Now I must say that Earth Prime's Susan would never do that. I think she wants to but is too pure of heart to do such a thing despite how much mind rape happens to her (Hate Monger and someone just recently before spidey joined). Its a shame cause Reed is inept emotionally to help her during such times. She has to help him with his emotions a lot of times.

[satchmo the dragon]

She slept with him in civil war, at first namor says he won't help captain america's side, steve sent sue to go talk to him (steve being a top stategist as usual, knew namor's weakness). The scene with sue and namor cuts out next thing you know a bunch of atlanteans come to steve's side in the war which cap would have won if he didn't surrender like a wuss but that's another topic of course.

[The Transient Guest]

Before I read all this....I just want to say that I remember back in the day when Namor was famous for being so good in bed that he could woo a woman whose husband has an elastic penis

[Rheged]

Before I read all this....I just want to say that I remember back in the day when Namor was famous for being so good in bed that he could woo a woman whose husband has an elastic penis

LOL! I may have to quote you elsewhere. :biggrin:

But yes, indeed, those were the days! A few writers still remember Namor that way. Stuart Moore had him sweep Abira off her feet in pretty short order in his last ongoing. And Bendis, of all people, made him the only one among the Illuminati with a clue about women. But sadly, most others just don't seem to get that. :frown:

[Rheged]

I was reading Sue's wiki bio and it said that some of the alternater Earth's Sue's has not only cheated on Reed with Namor but also left Reed to become Namor's Alantian wife. Reed, in his jealously, convinced the surface world to proclaim war on Atlantis but once he got there and saw how happy Sue was with Namor and had given him some children he left.

Now I must say that Earth Prime's Susan would never do that. I think she wants to but is too pure of heart to do such a thing despite how much mind rape happens to her (Hate Monger and someone just recently before spidey joined). Its a shame cause Reed is inept emotionally to help her during such times. She has to help him with his emotions a lot of times.

She slept with him in civil war, at first namor says he won't help captain america's side, steve sent sue to go talk to him (steve being a top stategist as usual, knew namor's weakness). The scene with sue and namor cuts out next thing you know a bunch of atlanteans come to steve's side in the war which cap would have won if he didn't surrender like a wuss but that's another topic of course.

I think you two have completely different views of Susan Richards. :tongue: And I have to disagree with both of you.

First off, I don't think Susan slept with Namor in Civil War. That pretty much makes Sue and Namor look ... questionable and OOC, but it also makes Captain America a panderer.

Secondly, Namor met Sue BEFORE she was married to Reed. So she wasn't 'cheating' on Reed, even in those alternate universes. She simply chose Namor, instead of Reed, to marry.

Also, 616 Sue DID leave Reed and go off with Namor to Atlantis in FF 147, when the Richards were separated and going to get divorce, so it isn't like she isn't capable of leaving Reed for Namor. Of course, that turned out to be an Oscar worthy performance by Namor to save Reed and Sue's marriage, so I seriously doubt he slept with her then.

[MagSeven]

She slept with him in civil war, at first namor says he won't help captain america's side, steve sent sue to go talk to him (steve being a top stategist as usual, knew namor's weakness). The scene with sue and namor cuts out next thing you know a bunch of atlanteans come to steve's side in the war which cap would have won if he didn't surrender like a wuss but that's another topic of course.

I think it was more about her humbling herself before Namor to ask for his help and not physical sex. I think Namor gets off more on humbling others.

[Thundermonkey]

In the 616 no.

[Rheged]

I think it was more about her humbling herself before Namor to ask for his help and not physical sex. I think Namor gets off more on humbling others.

Where have you seen that? Namor enjoys humbling men who cross him. He enjoys making women happy. Granted, he often interprets that as happy in his bed. :wink: But that's why Sue gets away with all the crap she's pulled on him; he wants her to be happy. But that doesn't mean he's not aware of that particular trait of his. That is why he calls Sue, and Cap, on their obvious 'strategy.' He's not going to let Sue use him, without her acknowledging their attraction and why he's indulging her. He's not going to pass up an opportunity to remind Sue that HE can make her far more happy than Reed can.

This doesn't sound like a guy that's into humiliating women.

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/carlaverock/N%20Scans/Illuminati/NAIlluminati4_2_crop.jpg

[Rasputin9977]

It's never been said whether these two characters have had sex. I think Marvel has made it ambiguous; so it's up to the reader to determine if they have done the deed or not.

[Professor Moriarty]

Sue needs to drop the zero and get with the hero.

[MagSeven]

Where have you seen that? Namor enjoys humbling men who cross him. He enjoys making women happy. Granted, he often interprets that as happy in his bed. :wink: But that's why Sue gets away with all the crap she's pulled on him; he wants her to be happy. But that doesn't mean he's not aware of that particular trait of his. That is why he calls Sue, and Cap, on their obvious 'strategy.' He's not going to let Sue use him, without her acknowledging their attraction and why he's indulging her. He's not going to pass up an opportunity to remind Sue that HE can make her far more happy than Reed can.

This doesn't sound like a guy that's into humiliating women.

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/carlaverock/N%20Scans/Illuminati/NAIlluminati4_2_crop.jpg

I've seen certain scenes where it seems that Namor is very disappointed in Sue for her having chosen Richards over him. It makes sense to me that he would revel in the thought of her having to crawl back and beg him for help, validating the fact that he believes himself superior to Richards in every way.
While yes, Namor has shown a tender side from time to time, he is also a dick plenty of times as well.

Edit - not humiliating women, humbling everyone.

[Rheged]

It's never been said whether these two characters have had sex. I think Marvel has made it ambiguous; so it's up to the reader to determine if they have done the deed or not.

I agree. The readers and the writers. I think a few of them have an opinion and write the relationship in that light.


Sue needs to drop the zero and get with the hero.

Heh. True, but I don't see it happening.


I've seen certain scenes where it seems that Namor is very disappointed in Sue for her having chosen Richards over him. It makes sense to me that he would revel in the thought of her having to crawl back and beg him for help, validating the fact that he believes himself superior to Richards in every way.
While yes, Namor has shown a tender side from time to time, he is also a dick plenty of times as well.

Edit - not humiliating women, humbling everyone.

Of course Namor is disappointed if Sue, or any woman, chooses someone other than himself. As for the rest, I think we just have a different view of Namor. I don't think he needs to validate himself as superior to Richards. He _knows_ he is already. Namor is nothing, if not ultimately self-confident. I really can't remember a situation where he humbled a woman in the manner you're suggesting, which is why I asked.

I will agree, that Namor has a soft side (mostly with the ladies), but has been a dick (often with the guys) many times. :tongue:

[Hypestyle]

It makes more sense that Sue and T'challa had a fling before Sue was engaged..

[Rheged]

It makes more sense that Sue and T'challa had a fling before Sue was engaged..

I didn't think Sue had met T'challa before she had married Reed.

[Monty_Cristo]

i like Namor better but Sue would be a fool to reciprocate. Namor enjoys chasing her. and he has a history of dumping regular human females once they've aged.