Detective 851

[davepaton]

Newsarama has the 1st 6 pages. I don't know what to think of it at all...

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=24634

[Red_Knight]

Seconded. I like the art, and the dialogue sounds good too, but... huh? I was expecting something else from "Last Rites"... Still, I'm thrilled to see where this goes. I mean, it's Denny O'Neil.

I'm wondering whether this story might tie in to the final arc of Nightwing in some way, with Dick featured on the cover and Two-Face back in Gotham... Would be cool to see their recent confrontation mentioned, at least. Darn... I'm sorely tempted to get the finale issues of Nightwing now. My pocket book won't like this one bit...

[IvCNuB4]

Sounds like the woman has some connection to the events after the earthquake from "No Man's Land" ....

[AlistairCrane]

Ooh I loved the "Cataclysm" crossover, so anything that ties into that is good in my book!

[frostedone]

This is very mysterious. I really want to see where this is going.

[Captain Jim]

You can't really tell what's happening on the basis of these few pages, but it certainly is intriguing.

[Mia]

The art is very nice. It reminds me of the art I used to see in European comics.

[dreyga2000]

If I remember correctly, O'neil stated in an interview that this story was allergorically narrated by Gotham City herself, or someone believing themselves to be the embodiment of the city. The character was a once beautiful actress now horribly scarred... This preview is the birth of that character...

[Trey]

If I remember correctly, O'neil stated in an interview that this story was allergorically narrated by Gotham City herself, or someone believing themselves to be the embodiment of the city. The character was a once beautiful actress now horribly scarred... This preview is the birth of that character...

Sounds good, and that art is very nice. Impressive.

[Chiroptera]

Ah Denny, thank gods for you. This is my last hurrah involving Batman till Bruce Wayne reclaims the mantle, and I just knew Denny O'Neil would make it a great one. :biggrin:

[Retro315]

Denny's writing seems fine and the art is great, but nothing to go on yet really.

Oh, except ... the girl. The Face of Gotham ... Gotham is a very sexy city, apparently. She's got it.

[ZT4]

You can't really tell what's happening on the basis of these few pages

And that's how a comic should be written.

[marylane]

Denny O'Neil. Just the name means it is gold. I am really looking forward to seeing this

[WorstThingUS]

Okay, I'm gonna be the first continuity cop and ask how this fits in with Two Face trying to destroy NYC, but they brought it on themselves by slapping "Last Rites" on the cover of both this and Nightwing #151 (which has Two Face in jail on the cover) trying all the storylines in the various books together.

I have no faith in Denny O'Neil so I'm hoping for the best while expecting the worst.

[dreyga2000]

Okay, I'm gonna be the first continuity cop and ask how this fits in with Two Face trying to destroy NYC, but they brought it on themselves by slapping "Last Rites" on the cover of both this and Nightwing #151 (which has Two Face in jail on the cover) trying all the storylines in the various books together.

I have no faith in Denny O'Neil so I'm hoping for the best while expecting the worst.

My assumption is that this occurs after Nightwing 151 since they reference the havoc Two-Face caused in NYC.... Two-Face is well Two-Face escaping from Arkham is child's play....

[Kiryu]

Ah Denny, thank gods for you. This is my last hurrah involving Batman till Bruce Wayne reclaims the mantle, and I just knew Denny O'Neil would make it a great one. :biggrin:

Skipping the Gaimen issues and the HoH follow up?

I am most interested in the Alfred stuff. The bit about him essentially being Merlin/the keeper of the Bat mythology really intrigues me.

[AlistairCrane]

I quite liked this issue...maybe because Denny's in touch with classic Bat material, like Oracle's presence as the "operator" for the Bat family. Perhaps Denny's two-parter should've come before Grant's two-parter.

[JumpingJupiter]

I noticed that Millicent's connection to the city wanes and peaks. The two instances where her connection is strongest are when Batman is M.I.A. That's interesting to me.

It's my impression that O'neil is using the metaphorical approach here to match G-Mo's symbol-laden style in R.I.P. I think this may be Denny's way of channeling G-Mo's work not only in content but also, to a degree, in style. Wrote a full review. (http://www.ifanboy.com/reviews/JumpingJupiter/dc_comics/detective_comics/851)

[40footwolf]

It sucked.

Nothing happened.

The end.

[AlistairCrane]

This was probably one of the best Gotham City stories in years. I'd rather have Denny back full time than Morrison. Make it so, DiDio!!

[JumpingJupiter]

It sucked.

Nothing happened.

The end.

Surely, the "writer on the rise" can formulate a much more compelling argument than this one. ;)

[HaroldAllnut]

The art is very nice. It reminds me of the art I used to see in European comics.

I was quite pleased, though I sincerely miss Dustin Nguyen. I'm quite interested to see where he goes next.

It sucked.

Nothing happened.

The end.

Nope.

Surely, the "writer on the rise" can formulate a much more compelling argument than this one. ;)

Well played.

[JumpingJupiter]

I also noticed that Millicent gets injured prior to each incident of her connecting to the city. It's a cool metaphor to show how much Batman's absence affects Gotham.

[40footwolf]

For sure.

Put somewhat more eloquently:

Absolutely nothing of consequence happened. Nightwing wandered into an un-exciting, dangerless "situation", with an uninteresting new character introduced, weird Two-Face dialogue, hammy dialogue for EVERYONE and, on top of all that, it had nothing to do with Batman's "Last Rites". It could have literally taken place at any point if it weren't for some cheeseball line from Gordon confirming that "He's not showing up this time", or somesuch.

I came in with pretty high standards and was left completely disappointed, to the point that I want my $3 back from DC for misleading their customers.

[JumpingJupiter]

Yeah, that banner is misleading. Just like R.I.P was. Those six issues were just a part of a bigger Morison story that isn't even done yet. This issue of Detective is about Gotham itself as a character. If you're into that concept, you'll enjoy this. If you're just wanting to know what's going on with Batman, this is inconsequential.

[nepenthes]

slightly underwhelming on a first reading.

the only bit i really liked was Alfreds "poor Master Grayson" comment and Dick beginning to realise the burden that Batman has left him. Dick was always "his own man". now he's destined to become the Batman throgh no choice of his own, there's simply no one else to do it. this could turn out very sad


where is Oracle supposed to be located these days? that comment about "on this coast".....

I liked Guillem March alot more in the Poison Ivy Joker Asylum issue. he doesn't really fit this one. Denny needs an old school artist

Yeah, that banner is misleading. Just like R.I.P was. Those six issues were just a part of a bigger Morison story that isn't even done yet. This issue of Detective is about Gotham itself as a character. If you're into that concept, you'll enjoy this. If you're just wanting to know what's going on with Batman, this is inconsequential.

this whole issue is about the disappearance of batman. the effects if not the cause, we've known for a long time that will be in Final Crisis

[Batman was taken]

slightly underwhelming on a first reading.

the only bit i really liked was Alfreds "poor Master Grayson" comment and Dick beginning to realise the burden that Batman has left him. Dick was always "his own man". now he's destined to become the Batman throgh no choice of his own, there's simply no one else to do it. this could turn out very sad


where is Oracle supposed to be located these days? that comment about "on this coast".....

I liked Guillem March alot more in the Poison Ivy Joker Asylum issue. he doesn't really fit this one. Denny needs an old school artist



this whole issue is about the disappearance of batman. the effects if not the cause, we've known for a long time that will be in Final Crisis


Yeah, Alfred's comment about Dick was good. And Dick's expression... very good.

Oracle's with the BoP in Platinum Flats. Somewhere in California, I guess... Pretty crappy choice really.

[Chiroptera]

Skipping the Gaimen issues and the HoH follow up?

I am most interested in the Alfred stuff. The bit about him essentially being Merlin/the keeper of the Bat mythology really intrigues me.

Not likely, Kir.
I can't even name a story Gaimen's written, that's how low he is on my radar.
I'll read the HoH follow up but I intend to borrow it from a friend. As I said before, I'm not planning to spend any money on something I don't support and I certainly don't support Bruce losing the cowl again.

Denny's always been one of my all time faves for Batman writers, so I knew he'd give me something I'd enjoy.

[JumpingJupiter]

this whole issue is about the disappearance of batman. the effects if not the cause, we've known for a long time that will be in Final Crisis

Oh yeah, I got that. I loved this issue. Did you read my review I linked to above? I was just saying that if you are the type of reader who just wants to stay up to date on major goings-on, this issue probably won't turn your crank. Like you say, it's more of a study into Gotham itself and how Batman's absence impacts it.

[Vidocq]

I liked this issue and I'm curious as to what will be of Mayne now that their is no Batman. The only part I didn't like of this issue was the coin toss scene, mostly because the art was all it was needed for that scene, it was like reading the same panel twice. Other than that great issue.

[Retro315]

I liked this issue. It was pretty by-the-books, but Denny has a great handle on the characters even within the overall Bat-mythos of the moment.

We get Alfred calling Dick because Two-Face has pulled a job, and Dick just fought him a few weeks ago (Dick refers to him as "my new sparring partner"). Dick contacts Oracle. They all definitely have the feeling "Batman will be back, so let's keep this thing moving so when he gets back he doesn't have his work cut out for him).

It wasn't Two-Face though, it was some old accomplice of his that he really can't stand as a person, impersonating him.

Millicent Mayne, apart from being Lady Gotham and having a last name that rhymes with Wayne and being a kind of obvious literal representation of what Gotham's going through without Batman (it's been scarred irreparably) ... apart from being good looking she's not that interesting. She's a clairvoyant who can tell what Dick and probably everyone in Gotham is doing ... okay.

The good thing about it though ... and it's awesome ... is she's a free excuse for Denny to use old school narration boxes. I'm not the world's biggest narration box fan (they were so overused prior to the 80's that your head would hurt looking at the pages), but used sparingly I do enjoy them.

Still, next issue seems kind of predictable. Dick confronts Two-Face, learns it wasn't him, saves the day ... "Gotham herself" tells him he needs to step up and protect the city. But at least Denny's writing is solid and does it justice.

[AlistairCrane]

I can't even name a story Gaimen's written, that's how low he is on my radar.


Um, SANDMAN?!? Where have you been for the past twenty years??

[Pixie_Solanas]

This was a stinker of the highest caliber. Rote, uninteresting, and so forgettable I can't even remember what the heck happened. Dini can't come back fast enough.

God, it was so predictable, i'm still in shock. It's like when Marvel gets Stan Lee to write some "special" story and he churns out some boring claptrap. I'm afraid Denny's scripting days are in his rearview mirror. Great job back in the 70s and 80s, sure. Now? Come on.

[JumpingJupiter]

I liked this issue and I'm curious as to what will be of Mayne now that their is no Batman. The only part I didn't like of this issue was the coin toss scene, mostly because the art was all it was needed for that scene, it was like reading the same panel twice. Other than that great issue.

I had the same criticism. Other than that, an excellently crafted story.

[Chiroptera]

Um, SANDMAN?!? Where have you been for the past twenty years??

This is going to cost my I'm sure... But screw it, I'll say it anyway:

I've never had any interest in Sandman.

[AlistairCrane]

This is going to cost my I'm sure... But screw it, I'll say it anyway:

I've never had any interest in Sandman.

Have you even read it? Because how can you not have any interest in it if you haven't tried it?

[Chiroptera]

Have you even read it? Because how can you not have any interest in it if you haven't tried it?

I gave it a try yes. But that was only after a friends insistance. I don't tend to read something just because the writers good. I read it if the character interests me. Same reason I won't be reading Batman without Bruce Wayne under the cowl, same reason Holly becoming Catwoman for a few issues really disappointed me and the same reason I've loved McDuffie's JLA so far.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Sandman or Gaimen. On the contrary I'd quite agree with the majority in saying it's good story and he's a good writer. It just doesn't interest me. I've long said my tastes in comics is very finicky, if it's not got one of the "iconic" or "legacy" heroes in it, and it doesn't involve said hero thoroughly trashing the badguys it's not likely to hold my interest for more than a few issues.

[JumpingJupiter]

Have you even read it? Because how can you not have any interest in it if you haven't tried it?

Well, maybe he's not interested in the subject, the characters, the tone, the art work, the writer, the artist, the genre. All things that can be determined without reading it.

[Red_Knight]

This was a stinker of the highest caliber. Rote, uninteresting, and so forgettable I can't even remember what the heck happened. Dini can't come back fast enough.


Oh, come on now. It seemed very clear that me that Millicent represents Gotham and its fast plunge into darkness now that Batman no longer rules the nights. I mean, it was blatant. If that's no your thing, I understand, but still...

What would you have been able come up with if ole Dan had called you up and said, "Hey buddy, we're completing overhauling Batman's status quo, cancelling a bunch of books and taking Bruce Wayne out of the equation for a while. You wanna say something about that in 2 issues?" It's not an easy job. I think Denny did very well.

The way I see, we'll be getting oodles of status-quo-shaking goodness once "Battle For The Cowl" kicks off. I applaud DC for giving readers and creators alike a chance to breathe, take a step back and treat this occasion as something more than a gimmicky stunt.

[AJM]

I thought it was okay when Millicent wasn't in it. There was an earthquake and suddenly she was filled with Gotham's souls? I think she's one of the stupidest characters i've ever read. And yes, i know that she represents Gotham and blah blah blah... but she is still poorly conceived and shallow - and she's not likely to get better in the space of one more issue.

What a waste of time. This while whole Batman RIP / Last Rites thing has all just turned to shit.

[JumpingJupiter]

There was an earthquake and suddenly she was filled with Gotham's souls? I think she's one of the stupidest characters i've ever read. And yes, i know that she represents Gotham and blah blah blah... but she is still poorly conceived and shallow - and she's not likely to get better in the space of one more issue..

She's a metaphor. Often, writers of fiction use them.

[n2doop5u]

I gave it a try yes. But that was only after a friends insistance. I don't tend to read something just because the writers good. I read it if the character interests me. Same reason I won't be reading Batman without Bruce Wayne under the cowl, same reason Holly becoming Catwoman for a few issues really disappointed me and the same reason I've loved McDuffie's JLA so far.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Sandman or Gaimen. On the contrary I'd quite agree with the majority in saying it's good story and he's a good writer. It just doesn't interest me. I've long said my tastes in comics is very finicky, if it's not got one of the "iconic" or "legacy" heroes in it, and it doesn't involve said hero thoroughly trashing the badguys it's not likely to hold my interest for more than a few issues.

Then how come, before, you said Gaimen was so low on your radar, you didn't even know what else he'd written?

[AlistairCrane]

Before this goes any further, his name is spelled Gaiman, with an A, not an E. :smile:

[AJM]

She's a metaphor. Often, writers of fiction use them.

Chuckle chuckle! Aren't you clever?

I don't care what she is, she's still crap.

[AlistairCrane]

She's a metaphor. Often, writers of fiction use them.

Don't bother trying to defend O'Neil's work to someone who obviously just doesn't get it. You'll only get angry. I prefer to just skip their posts!

[AJM]

Don't bother trying to defend O'Neil's work to someone who obviously just doesn't get it. You'll only get angry. I prefer to just skip their posts!

And don't you be so patronising. I've been reading O'Neil's work since the Seventies and loved a great deal of it, but this issue of Detective was wholly sub-standard on anyone's terms, let alone someone with such a history of quality as he has.

Perhaps you could try being objective rather than sycophantic?

[Chiroptera]

Then how come, before, you said Gaimen was so low on your radar, you didn't even know what else he'd written?

Because he IS low on my radar and I didn't know what he'd written. I forgot he was the writer of Sandman until Alistair brought it up.

And thank you Alistair for the correction about the name. It's funny, when I first started to reply I'd spelled it with an A, then I saw other people were using E and I figured I was the one misspelling it since I don't know him to well (which I'm sure is readily apparent now :tongue: .)

[Chiroptera]

And don't you be so patronising. I've been reading O'Neil's work since the Seventies and loved a great deal of it, but this issue of Detective was wholly sub-standard on anyone's terms, let alone someone with such a history of quality as he has.

Perhaps you could try being objective rather than sycophantic?

Now, I agree what your saying here, just because you disliked it doesn't mean you didn't get it, I can respect that. You didn't like it, fine. However, to say it's "substandard by anyone's terms" is an extremely biased statement from someone who's talking about looking at the story objectively.

It's clear several people here liked the story just fine, so it must not have been sub-standard on anyone's terms, otherwise there would be a unanimous consensus that it was a sub-standard story.

[AlistairCrane]

Now, I agree what your saying here, just because you disliked it doesn't mean you didn't get it, I can respect that. You didn't like it, fine. However, to say it's "substandard by anyone's terms" is an extremely biased statement from someone who's talking about looking at the story objectively.

It's clear several people here liked the story just fine, so it must not have been sub-standard on anyone's terms, otherwise there would be a unanimous consensus that it was a sub-standard story.

Thank you. Of course, he could be implying that the opinions of those of us who enjoyed it don't count.

[AJM]

It's called an opinion.

Often, readers of fiction have them.

[JumpingJupiter]

It's called an opinion.

Often, readers of fiction have them.

Took you a while but you did it. Good job!

[AJM]

Took you a while but you did it. Good job!

Mmm. Touché!

[Captain Jim]

Okay, are we done with the bickering so we can go back to talking about the story?

[Chiroptera]

You know what I've always thought would be interesting? Something similar to what Denny did here, but with ALL the major heroes cities represented. Living embodiments of Metropolis, Gotham, Keystone, Gateway, etc. I'd love to see a one shot where they all get together and talk about themselves (I.E. the city they represent) and the hero that serves/protects them. I just think it could make for an interesting story if done right. It could be like a collection of shots where they each share what they believe is their heroes best "Saving the city" adventure.

[JumpingJupiter]

You know what I've always thought would be interesting? Something similar to what Denny did here, but with ALL the major heroes cities represented. Living embodiments of Metropolis, Gotham, Keystone, Gateway, etc. I'd love to see a one shot where they all get together and talk about themselves (I.E. the city they represent) and the hero that serves/protects them. I just think it could make for an interesting story if done right. It could be like a collection of shots where they each share what they believe is their heroes best "Saving the city" adventure.

I'd buy that. But I think it'd be cool if they interacted.

[agentofthebat]

Did this year start sitting up dick to become batman?

[Karl O'Neill]

I enjoyed this issue alot, good to see denny o neill back in the batverse. the art was nice in parts, it wasn't perfect by any means, but still a solid issue.

mark my words. Two face will become nightwing(dick grayson) arch villain for the next few years.

[JumpingJupiter]

Did this year start sitting up dick to become batman?

I think so, It's subtly hinted at for sure. I'm pretty sure that Millicent will nudge Nightwing in that direction in the second part of this story. That's my speculation.

[B. Kuwanger]

I think Denny and March both did very well with this book. The idea sounds hammy, but Millicent was quite intriguing. Definitely give the guy more than an issue, he's come back after decades to have to follow a Grant Morrison plot, and we all know that he can pull off a good Batman comic.

The only real problem I had reading was seeing Dick get dropped. I'm not sure there was enough reason given for him to get tooled.

[n2doop5u]

Because he IS low on my radar and I didn't know what he'd written. I forgot he was the writer of Sandman until Alistair brought it up.

And thank you Alistair for the correction about the name. It's funny, when I first started to reply I'd spelled it with an A, then I saw other people were using E and I figured I was the one misspelling it since I don't know him to well (which I'm sure is readily apparent now :tongue: .)

Fair enough. Gaiman's good. You should give him a shot sometime. i didn't think i'd be into sandman but i read it and loved it. I'm super excited for his issues.

[JumpingJupiter]

I think Denny and March both did very well with this book. The idea sounds hammy, but Millicent was quite intriguing. Definitely give the guy more than an issue, he's come back after decades to have to follow a Grant Morrison plot, and we all know that he can pull off a good Batman comic.

The only real problem I had reading was seeing Dick get dropped. I'm not sure there was enough reason given for him to get tooled.

Actually Denny is writing two issues. The conclusion this story will occur in Batman. That's why Dick was dropped. It's a cliffhanger. We'll see how he gets out of it in part 2.

[AlistairCrane]

Actually Denny is writing two issues. The conclusion this story will occur in Batman. That's why Dick was dropped. It's a cliffhanger. We'll see how he gets out of it in part 2.

I don't think he's saying that, he's just saying don't judge the guy harshly based only on Part 1 of a 2-part story.

[pariah-1972]

I'm not quite sure what to think of this the coloring is really really out there and i'm not sure if this enhances the story or distracts from it.


There was some cheesy bits that i felt didn't work like Millicent's name for instance or her being scared by a two face impersonator which i didn't realize was a one at first and her costume which didn't seem original.

I really liked the narration for some reason and most of the writing was really good.

I didn't understand why a beautiful actress was doing talking to a bunch of thugs in a theater what was her reason for being there with them? and she somehow gets powers after surviving an earthquake? that's almost pure ridiculous.


The Nightwing part of the story was a bit to rushed.
He gets taken out by one hit from a thug? come on !


so i guess i'm sort of on the fence about this.

[Tony Bang]

I've long said my tastes in comics is very finicky, if it's not got one of the "iconic" or "legacy" heroes in it, and it doesn't involve said hero thoroughly trashing the badguys it's not likely to hold my interest for more than a few issues.

Do you read novels without those guys in them? Cause Gaiman has written some awesome ones.

[drinkblatzbeer]

read it at the shop wednesday and put it back down...

after how good the two batbooks have been lately, this came as a huge letdown...
think much of what's going to happen til morrison takes over the regular batbook again seems like DC filler...or rushed stories...

[Chiroptera]

Do you read novels without those guys in them? Cause Gaiman has written some awesome ones.

Depends on the nature of the novel. Care to toss me a few titles so I can look 'em up? If the premise interests me I'll certainly give them a go. I love a good novel, that's kind've why I've not liked Grant's run. When I want a good involved story I VASTLY prefer it in book form. I like my comics as short as possible, many of my favorites are single issue stories.

[earl]

I thought the artwork by Guillem March was really interesting, his style is both a little bit Neal Adams or Doug Wildey in the figure work, but then the action sequences used all of the speed lines and layout like manga. I liked it and there were some really good panels, especially the one where Nightwing comes crashing into the room.

The story was pretty much setup. It seems to be raising more questions than answering existing ones, but it was OK. The big thing that will probably come out of it is just creating a new character, whose tie to Gotham could be used in an interesting way considering the whole thing that the city was made to create a Batman sequence in Morrison's story.

[davepaton]

I was a little underwhelmed by this issue. I didn't think it was particularly bad just that I expected much more for a story following on the heals of RIP. Maybe it was just that it was hyped up too much but the story just was pretty mediocre and hardly anything happened. It just didn't feel any more significant than any other normal Bat story.

Whilst Denny has done so much for Batman and has written some tremendous stories sometimes I feel that people would defend him no matter what he does. I mean if this was written by some nobody I bet a lot of people would be more negative.

March's art is really good and think he has a really good future. I loved the panel with Oracle. Though until I realized what was going on with 2 face I was up in arms at how he was drawn!

[JumpingJupiter]

Maybe it was just that it was hyped up too much but the story just was pretty mediocre and hardly anything happened.
I agree with this. The last rites banner is misleading. Many fans probably went into this expecting big reveals but instead got an understated story.

It just didn't feel any more significant than any other normal Bat story.
I'll respectfully disagree with this. I think we'll understand the significance of this issue much better once part 2 is out. I Denny is setting up the story to demonstrate just how important Nightwing is fro Gotham. This issue hints at it but I think we'll see it clearer in part 2. To me this issue is very significant for this event.

Whilst Denny has done so much for Batman and has written some tremendous stories sometimes I feel that people would defend him no matter what he does. I mean if this was written by some nobody I bet a lot of people would be more negative.
That's true of any writer really. And I do have a soft spot for Denny. I'll readily admit that this isn't my favorite thing he wrote by far but I sincerely feel this was very well crafted and very important issue.

Though until I realized what was going on with 2 face I was up in arms at how he was drawn!
Yeah, the same thing happened to me! I was like, "what's with his weird mouth?!" Heh heh.

So, what did you think of Millicent? Do you think the character has potential to be reusable in other contexts?

[Cipranzi]

I think she's interesting, but I want to know how an earthquake gave her powers.

[AlistairCrane]

I think she's interesting, but I want to know how an earthquake gave her powers.

Why? The mystique is in not knowing, not having everything explained to us.

[JumpingJupiter]

I think she's interesting, but I want to know how an earthquake gave her powers.

Well, to me it's the same as any superhero origin. I mean how does the sun give Superman god-like powers? Most origin stories are like that. It's a conceit the writer hopes the reader will make. Not everything is explained. It leaves it open to other writers to explain later on.

Also, the earthquake doesn't necessarily give her the powers. It's suggested that the powers wax and wane. The power manifests itself most intensely when Batman goes M.I.A. Millicent getting injured is simply a metaphor for the pain Gotham suffers when it loses it's Dark Knight.

My interpretation of it is that Millicent always had the powers but only feels it when it is strong and intense. And every time Gotham loses Batman it turns on Millicent in a sense and she suffers great pain.

[Karl O'Neill]

I give this issue a solid B.

Overall i liked the art and writing quite a bit, and re-read the issue twice now, which is always a good thing. looking forward to the conclusion and hope denny o neill has more dc/batman work in the future.

[Tony Bang]

Depends on the nature of the novel. Care to toss me a few titles so I can look 'em up? If the premise interests me I'll certainly give them a go. I love a good novel, that's kind've why I've not liked Grant's run. When I want a good involved story I VASTLY prefer it in book form. I like my comics as short as possible, many of my favorites are single issue stories.

American Gods would be the first one to think of. The basic premise is a in-fight between old and new gods for the heart and soul of American. It's a pretty good yarn.

[the goddamn batman]

American Gods would be the first one to think of. The basic premise is a in-fight between old and new gods for the heart and soul of American. It's a pretty good yarn.

It's more than a good yarn.

[Bookem Danno]

Still, next issue seems kind of predictable. Dick confronts Two-Face, learns it wasn't him, saves the day ... "Gotham herself" tells him he needs to step up and protect the city. But at least Denny's writing is solid and does it justice.

How many times has Dick faced Harvey in battle before and after becoming Nightwing?
http://i37.tinypic.com/2yv85ea.jpg

[JumpingJupiter]

How many times has Dick faced Harvey in battle before and after becoming Nightwing?
http://i37.tinypic.com/2yv85ea.jpg

Pardon my ignorance, I'm not sure what point you're illustrating...

[Chiroptera]

American Gods would be the first one to think of. The basic premise is a in-fight between old and new gods for the heart and soul of American. It's a pretty good yarn.

Not really my kinda thing. I'm not a big fan of divinities, new or old, used in stories like that. I don't even like the way they're normally used in comics, actual novels are a flat out no go with me.


Back on topic, I have the same question as Jumping Jupiter, what exactly is this picture supposed to be showing us?

[crazyhips]

Thought this was really decent issue with the exception of the last page. I didn't get it..........but at least it wasn't as crazy as some of Morrison's writing.

[JumpingJupiter]

Thought this was really decent issue with the exception of the last page. I didn't get it.

Nightwing and a pizza delivery guy are passed out in a burning building. To be continued...

[Karl O'Neill]

The ending seemed straight forward to me. I bet the face of gotham will save them.

[joeyblues]

Not really my kinda thing. I'm not a big fan of divinities, new or old, used in stories like that. I don't even like the way they're normally used in comics, actual novels are a flat out no go with me.


Then sandman won't be your thing at all, It's all about divinities (over all)

But

for a sampler of his potential for Batman I would try to lay my hands on Sandman Issue #6.

It's a proper Super Villain tale staring Doctor Destiny (From before vertigo branched off into it's own universe)

and It's Quite possibly one of the best Super villain one shot stories ever.

Gaiman also wrote something for Batman:Black and white, but it's meta-textual and not really representative.

and on topic...

I'm willing to give Denny O Neil the benefit of the doubt until part 2 (He is DENNY O NEIL after all) but this issue just seemed to be moving all the pieces into place, a perfectly serviceable part 1 but it needs it's conclusion.

[davepaton]

]

I'll respectfully disagree with this. I think we'll understand the significance of this issue much better once part 2 is out. I Denny is setting up the story to demonstrate just how important Nightwing is fro Gotham. This issue hints at it but I think we'll see it clearer in part 2. To me this issue is very significant for this event.

So, what did you think of Millicent? Do you think the character has potential to be reusable in other contexts?

Fair point, I should reserve judgement until part 2.

The Millicent character has the potential to be used again - I mean very little has been revealed about her. Though I'm not sure that is Denny's intention my take on it was that she will only be used in this 2 parter because she is a metaphor for Gotham City. I could be wrong however.

[Pixie_Solanas]

MILLICENT!

What, was Bertha too outdated?

[Chiroptera]

and on topic...

I'm willing to give Denny O Neil the benefit of the doubt until part 2 (He is DENNY O NEIL after all) but this issue just seemed to be moving all the pieces into place, a perfectly serviceable part 1 but it needs it's conclusion.

Does the "He is DENNY O'NEIL after all" make anyone else think of Boston Legal? :tongue: