Cyclops' X-force vs Norman's Thunderbolts...

[CMBMOOL]

I mean come on Yost, Kyle, this is a storyline for the new year....

Cyclops Black-ops X-men vs Norman's Black-ops Thunderbolts, since the Dark Avengers are more within the public eye.

What do you all say about that idea ?:biggrin:

[Maestro]

With Emma in Norman's little club, I don't see him or his Thunderbolts as much of a threat to mutants. so X-Force doesn't have a reason to kill them

[ExodusCloak]

I don't think that can happen without Emma finding out about this from Norman Osbourne.

[Eye in the Sky]

Excellent idea.

[Chaos_Alfa]

That needs to happen :biggrin:

[CMBMOOL]

With Emma in Norman's little club, I don't see him or his Thunderbolts as much of a threat to mutants. so X-Force doesn't have a reason to kill them
But you forget that Emma doesn't even know that X-force is back on, thanks to Cyclops.

[tjarvis]

But you forget that Emma doesn't even know that X-force is back on, thanks to Cyclops.

Plus, it would add such a delicious amount of tension and intrigue between Cyclops and Emma that would be a wonderful backstory.

It does kind of seem like a no brainer at some point. Escpecially with Logan in New Avengers as well, he's got a stake in this thing.

[Omega Alpha]

The Thunderbolts got their asses handed by Jack Flag. Jack freakin' flag. I think X-force can take them.

Would be fun to see, though.

[[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite]

The Thunderbolts got their asses handed by Jack Flag. Jack freakin' flag. I think X-force can take them.

Would be fun to see, though.

These are different Thunderbolts. It's a new line-up.

[Omega Alpha]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;8014243']These are different Thunderbolts. It's a new line-up.

Yeah, but they've got the same spirit, don't they?:biggrin:

[Maestro]

Plus, it would add such a delicious amount of tension and intrigue between Cyclops and Emma that would be a wonderful backstory

oh. well maybe they could discuss the matter in their daily sex

[Joe Franklin]

The T-Bolts Ant-Man can kill off X-Force all by himself.:biggrin:

[Wind-Breaker]

The T-Bolts Ant-Man can kill off X-Force all by himself.:biggrin:

....in a game of Wii maybe. O'Grady is too concerned about his well being to take on maniacs with claws coming out of their fists. He'll most likely sit that one out.

[Maestro]

The T-Bolts Ant-Man can kill off X-Force all by himself.:biggrin:

He would try but then see Emma naked in the shower and forget all about it.

[The Lucky One]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;8014243']These are different Thunderbolts. It's a new line-up.

True, that was before Melissa was back in the leader's seat. Still, though, they'd probably have to bring Zemo back to stand a chance of out-strategizing Logan.

-D

[marvell2100]

True, that was before Melissa was back in the leader's seat. Still, though, they'd probably have to bring Zemo back to stand a chance of out-strategizing Logan.

-D

Venom and Bullseye alone and really just Venom alone would kill both the T-bolts and X-Force.

[Justin K.]

I like this. A Domino and Bullseye brawl would be cool, Domino having luck and being able to make things work out for her, and fall in place, and Bullseye never misses. A fight between Wolverine and Venom would be cool too.

[Beni]

I would not like this. More meaningless action :tongue:

[worstblogever]

Penance is no slouch, either. X-Force's only hope of slowing him down would be if he and X-23 realized they were both cutters, and went off to have a sadomasochistic relationship together.

That still leaves Radioactive Man, Songbird, Moonstone, Bullseye, and Venom for the rest of the bunch. That's a lot of viable power for Team Scratch & Sniff to fight.

[DeadXMan]

But you forget that Emma doesn't even know that X-force is back on, thanks to Cyclops.

thanks to Jean blak Box she made for scott.

:tongue:

[DeadXMan]

Penance is no slouch, either. X-Force's only hope of slowing him down would be if he and X-23 realized they were both cutters, and went off to have a sadomasochistic relationship together.

That still leaves Radioactive Man, Songbird, Moonstone, Bullseye, and Venom for the rest of the bunch. That's a lot of viable power for Team Scratch & Sniff to fight.

RM is off to china tohelp rebuild their superhero team

[worstblogever]

RM is off to china tohelp rebuild their superhero team

Well, then we have no idea who's on Norman's new T-Bolts. Some of the "Dark Reign" previews have some of those members on his Avengers team with the Sentry, Daken, and Marvel Boy.

So if we're splitting hairs, we really don't know which incarnation we're talking about, as of now.

[ExodusCloak]

Not to mention that Bullseye apparently murdered Songbird. Good riddance I say.

[worstblogever]

Not to mention that Bullseye apparently murdered Songbird. Good riddance I say.

What's your beef with Songbird, out of curiosity?

[ExodusCloak]

What's your beef with Songbird, out of curiosity?

She happens to fall into one of those arch-types that I'm not a fan of, Moonstone is vastly superior to her in every way. And Norman needs to kick her in the rear for attempting to blackmail him.
Even her apparent last words to Bullseye came off as slightly pathetic. Although I have to say I did like that, it suits her personality.

[worstblogever]

She happens to fall into one of those arch-types that I'm not a fan of, Moonstone is vastly superior to her in every way. And Norman needs to kick her in the rear for attempting to blackmail him.
Even her apparent last words to Bullseye came off as slightly pathetic.

She's a flawed character, whose moral barometer shifts with the winds. And, it seems whenever she does try and do the right thing, she does it in an underhanded way, that comes back to bite her on the *ss.

I feel that makes her an interesting protagonist. Deadpool's like that, save that he's rather funny about it.

[ExodusCloak]

She's a flawed character, whose moral barometer shifts with the winds. And, it seems whenever she does try and do the right thing, she does it in an underhanded way, that comes back to bite her on the *ss.

I feel that makes her an interesting protagonist. Deadpool's like that, save that he's rather funny about it.

I agree, I don't think she's boring in fact I think she's a step up from some of the Claremazons in that respect...but her personality and her perspective on life kind of irks me. I'm also heavily bias towards Moonstone and Norman. I loved everything about Warren Ellis's Thunderbolts.

[worstblogever]

I agree, I don't think she's boring...her personality and her perspective on life kind of irks me. I'm also heavily bias towards Moonstone and Norman.

Don't let your love of one character hurt your appreciation of the other if they butt heads.

See also: Jean & Emma, Scott & Logan, or Cap & Tony.

[DeadXMan]

Not to mention that Bullseye apparently murdered Songbird. Good riddance I say.

not yet he hasn't

but she might not be on the TB much longer

[ExodusCloak]

Don't let your love of one character hurt your appreciation of the other if they butt heads.

See also: Jean & Emma, Scott & Logan, or Cap & Tony.

I'll take it into consideration but I don't think it's so much that. It's one of those things where it's either love at first site or isn't. I'm usually apathetic to Jean, and I like both Scott and Wolverine. And I'm really neutral towards Tony/Cap. However I find MJ slightly annoying, which means that I'm slightly bias towards Gwen because she's managed to stay dead for so long.

It's the same with Taskmaster, some people don't get my love for Taskmaster and my utter hatred of Wasp and disdain for Ms. Marvel.

[DeadXMan]

how can people not love tasky?

he was created by the same guy that created Wolverine?

[worstblogever]

how can people not love tasky?

he was created by the same guy that created Wolverine?

Taskmaster is, in fact, full of awesome. He was created by David Michelinie, and George Perez.

He was Deathstroke before Perez and Wolfman made a Deathstroke, really, in Teen Titans. Almost down to the color schemes.

Wolverine, though, was created by Len Wein & John Romita Sr.

So there you go.

[Valeria Kementari]

Moonstone alone would kill X-Force with no remorse and in less than 2 seconds

[Omega Alpha]

Moonstone alone would kill X-Force with no remorse and in less than 2 seconds

You haven't followed Ellis Bolts, did you?:biggrin:

[Waterlily]

As for who'd win a fight - Thunderbolts or X-Force, I'd say it depends on who's writing it. I'm leaning towards X-Force, personally. Especially if Hepzibah joins in with her magic space guns.

[The Lucky One]

The easy answer is that the Ellis Thunderbolts would get absolutely demolished. Ellis' run was great, and one of the things that made it so great is that he took every opportunity to show us how godawful they were as a team. They sucked. They were terrible. They lost fights to d-listers (let's not forget that the Steel Spider used to be a fat kid with a Doctor Octopus fetish) because they had zero teamwork. Osborn is a sociopath, by definition incapable of feeling anything for any of his team members, plus didn't involve himself in field work. Moonstone pulled an Emma Frost and lost whatever softening of her personality had occurred in the years prior; she also cared nothing for her teammates, plus expected them to follow whatever orders she barked without question, and proved incompetent as a field leader, needing Bullseye to pull her out of every jam. Venom, now controlled by a d-lister himself, couldn't even work with his own damn self, let alone anyone else. Swordsman ditched whatever moral progress he had made under Nicieza's pen and went murderously, megalomaniacally, and incestually insane. Speedball lost his damn mind before ever joining, and spent way too much time listening to Joy Division albums while stroking P-cat, the penitent puss. And Songbird and Radioactive Man realized they were the only two 1) sane, and 2) somewhat ethical people on the team and that they liked the people they were fighting more than their own teammates, and so just started phoning it in. Ellis' entire run was psychologically fascinating, endlessly entertaining, and meticulously crafted to show exactly how badly a team of individuals who don't work well together to begin with can self-destruct. It was excellent.

So, it's a pretty simple answer: you pit them against a team of halfway competent people who like each other, have trained together, and know basic battle strategy, and they'll get annihilated. That's if they don't implode on themselves first. X-Force would get a much better fight out of the Thunderbolts when they were led by Zemo, or Hawkeye.

-D

[Washout]

To me, it all comes down to if Elixir feels like killing that day.

[Justin K.]

Domino has her luck, it'd be hard to take her down
Wolverine and X-23 heal like crazy
Elixir is plain deadly

A bullseye vs domino fight would be cool

[pharoahe22]

If it's X-force vs. The Thunderbolts pre-the end of SI:

Wolverine vs. Swordsman: Swordsman showed that he could hold Logan off for a bit, but he even admitted that Logan was overwhelming him. Logan wins.
X-23 vs. Penance: OoOoo I dunno. Penance is super-powerful, but X-23 is the far better fighter. Toss up but Penance has the edge.
Domino vs. Bullseye: Bullseye's super-deadly, but Domino has mutant luck lol. Can't beat that. Domino gets lucky somehow and wins.
Warpath vs. Venom: Awesome fight. I'd have to give Venom the edge, but Gargan's an idiot, so Warpath might be able to squeak out a win.
Archangel vs. Songbird: Archangel would probably kill her...he's crazy lol
Wolfsbane vs. ? Norman never really joined the fights.
Elixer vs. Radioactive Man. Honestly, I'd have to give it to Elixer. He could heal any of the damage done, and give RM a stroke or something.
Vanisher vs. Moonstone: Vanisher is chickens#!T, but technically he could vanish before he's blasted away and pop up behind her and shoot her in the back lol.

I'd say overall, I have to give this to X-force.

[marvell2100]

Again, Venom and Bullseye would kill everybody. Everybody. Then they would go after the writer, artist and editor. And if they caught you reading the book then you're next!

[Justin K.]

If it's X-force vs. The Thunderbolts pre-the end of SI:

Wolverine vs. Swordsman: Swordsman showed that he could hold Logan off for a bit, but he even admitted that Logan was overwhelming him. Logan wins.
X-23 vs. Penance: OoOoo I dunno. Penance is super-powerful, but X-23 is the far better fighter. Toss up but Penance has the edge.
Domino vs. Bullseye: Bullseye's super-deadly, but Domino has mutant luck lol. Can't beat that. Domino gets lucky somehow and wins.
Warpath vs. Venom: Awesome fight. I'd have to give Venom the edge, but Gargan's an idiot, so Warpath might be able to squeak out a win.
Archangel vs. Songbird: Archangel would probably kill her...he's crazy lol
Wolfsbane vs. ? Norman never really joined the fights.
Elixer vs. Radioactive Man. Honestly, I'd have to give it to Elixer. He could heal any of the damage done, and give RM a stroke or something.
Vanisher vs. Moonstone: Vanisher is chickens#!T, but technically he could vanish before he's blasted away and pop up behind her and shoot her in the back lol.

I'd say overall, I have to give this to X-force.

Norman could come back in his Green Goblin getup
Not saying he'll become Goblin again
but probably for a fight probably

Otherwise, like what I'm seeing ☻

[Omega Alpha]

Again, Venom and Bullseye would kill everybody. Everybody. Then they would go after the writer, artist and editor. And if they caught you reading the book then you're next!

X-force only has to bring American Eagle and Jack Flag and Gargan and Bullseye are both seriously screwed:biggrin:

[DeadXMan]

with warpath do since he's invurnible and stronger the AE?

[marvell2100]

X-force only has to bring American Eagle and Jack Flag and Gargan and Bullseye are both seriously screwed:biggrin:


with warpath do since he's invurnible and stronger the AE?

Doesn't matter. The only thing that has been holding Venom and Bullseye back has been Norman's penchant for being overly dramatic and his incessant toying around. Venom would take Flag and shove him down AE's throat and the tie them both around Warpath's neck before decapitating him. Bullseye would kill them all with props from the monopoly game.

[DeadXMan]

he inverible
they can't cut him
and has taken down a sentenal by himself by claping

I'll take Warpath over bullseye

[marvell2100]

he inverible
they can't cut him
and has taken down a sentenal by himself by claping

I'll take Warpath over bullseye

Outside maybe tough but internals, my friend. Internals is the way to go. Lob a lugee down his esophagus.

[DeadXMan]

Outside maybe tough but internals, my friend. Internals is the way to go. Lob a lugee down his esophagus.

http://th299.photobucket.com/albums/mm311/angelo_1150/th_warfgif.gif

%$&^%ing fanboy.....

[marvell2100]

http://th299.photobucket.com/albums/mm311/angelo_1150/th_warfgif.gif

%$&^%ing fanboy.....

Don't go rubbing your head now.

[Monty_Cristo]

not yet he hasn't

but she might not be on the TB much longer

my speculation is that she's the new Ghost that is pictured with the rest of the T-bolts; now some kind of sound/energy being being held together by a tech shell. i think it'd be kind of cool to turn her into white noise. but i understand why fans of the character would see this as tragic. of course it was bound to end badly for her. Melissa's had a hard knock life and she played around w/ monsters too long.


X-force only has to bring American Eagle and Jack Flag and Gargan and Bullseye are both seriously screwed:biggrin:

new team don't have nano-chains or cameras watching them. the problem w/ Ellis t-bolts was that they were a bunch of savage killers being forced to act as a cooperative fighting unit while remaining likable to the public. this new roster isn't on a chain. they aren't out to entertain the public or take prisoners; just kill. in other words, they are exactly what X-Force is.

[Monty_Cristo]

As for who'd win a fight - Thunderbolts or X-Force, I'd say it depends on who's writing it. I'm leaning towards X-Force, personally. Especially if Hepzibah joins in with her magic space guns.

it's got nothing to do with who is more powerful. Tbolts would lose because they would, in effect, be the 'Freedom Force' of the story. it's their job to be a thorn in the side of whomever they are facing. they'll give them a fight but won't win enough to capture X-Force or cause any casualties. i think it'd be a fun match up; especially w/ the new tbolts lineup. you've got Yelena Belova to face off against X-23 or Domino. you got a big brawler with an axe (Headsman) to fight Warpath. you've got (potentially) Nuke a weapon plus super-soldier who has already gone a few rounds w/ Wolverine. you've got Paladin who has encountered Cable, the Hellfire Club, and Generation X. and then a bunch of question marks who can take their turns making X-Force look good.

[Disgruntled1]

Again, Venom and Bullseye would kill everybody. Everybody. Venom is plain unreliable. The symbiote would likely ditch Gargan the first chance it gets. Even if it doesn't, it's not like Venom is unstoppable. Wolverine has held his own against Venom before. Best the symbiote ever did was attach itself to Logan, which leaves Gargan stranded and the symbiote can't overpower the HF anyway most times.

Bullseye is just a man and is outclassed physically by Wolverine, X-23, and Warpath. Wolvy and X (Maybe even Dom) have better or comparable fighting skills and are assassins in their own right. There is no believable way Bullseye can take down Warpath, Logan, or X. At best he can keep Domino busy for a long stalemate. Daredevil's punching bag would not amount to a whole lot against these guys IMO.

[Wild Card13]

I think Bullseye is the most dangerous contender on the field, personally, of either team. He may not be able to overcome his opponents' healing factors, but it's more or less a guarantee that he's going to do damage as long as he's got his hands free. Domino and Rahne, in particular, should have plenty to fear from him. He's taken a drubbing from Daredevil time and time again, but one has to remember that this is the guy who waxed Elektra, a fighter miles above anyone on X-Force but Wolverine.

But despite that little bright spot, the Thunderbolts would lose badly because of a point made earlier: they have absolutely no teamwork. X-Force knows how to act as a unit, and their leader is a far better tactician than Norman is. The Thunderbolts trip over themselves trying to bring the hurt on whoever their target is, leading to a couple rather embarrassing defeats. X-Force is a good deal more dangerous than American Eagle or Sepulchre.

That said, they really should do this story. Maybe have it reversed, and have Cyclops dispatch X-Force to take out the Thunderbolts. That'd be really interesting.

[Raven1983]

i have to side with X-Force here. you have Warpath who is virtually invulnerable to most opponents, a werewolf, archangel with metal wings and metal darts, and two mutants with unbreakable claws that cut anything and healing factors which short of decapitation are virtually impossible to kill, and a mutant that can heal his teammates and kill by touching someone.

however if i had to make a dream addition (i know he's not running with the x-men anymore) would be juggernaut. the premise of the team was the x-men's most adapt and dangerous killers and hunters. on that basis alone juggernauts kills must be close to wolverines so if he ever rejoins he should be included simply to give the team a powerhouse but despite not having a super strength mutant the team would still kick ass

[Optic Rage!]

Again, Venom and Bullseye would kill everybody. Everybody. Then they would go after the writer, artist and editor. And if they caught you reading the book then you're next!

Yeah, sure dude, in your dreams.

While on paper X-Force easily outclass the Thunderbolts, obviously if it does happen then the writers will make it more evenly matched then it should be, you know, to keep things interesting.

Wolverine pretty much outclasses anyone on the Thunderbolts who's most dangerous member is Bullseye who has been taken out many many times by Daredevil who is completely outclassed by Logan.

Sure, it won't be an easy fight but Wolverine has had tougher fights.

I don't see how Bullseye would stand any sort of chance against X-23 and Warpath either, not to mention Domino would be able to keep him busy.

Venom, who has been beaten by Spider-Man many times who is again outclassed by Logan would not be that difficult, not to mention this is a far weaker and unstable Venom then when it was Brock.

I could see Warpath being able to deal with him.

Penance is a tricky one, but X-23 has the edge on him.

One on One, the thunderbolts are seriously outclassed and outmanned, not to mention this version of thunderbolts have had trouble with d-listers such as Jack Flag who made them look like a joke, and they also have a terrible time working together. Against a team of extremely tough, gritty, excellent fighters who are well known for their team work skills...it would be a mess.

I would still love for it to happen tough, and i'm sure the writers would make it fun.

And if Norman joins the fight, does that mean Scott gets to join the fight too? if so, it would be an even easier victory for X-Force.

[theardri]

As for who'd win a fight - Thunderbolts or X-Force, I'd say it depends on who's writing it. I'm leaning towards X-Force, personally. Especially if Hepzibah joins in with her magic space guns.

No sod that!

It would depend on the XForce line up (it's still not 100% clear if Elixir is here for the long run).

But Warren as Death would probably take most of them out from a distance.

Then team stabby would mix it up. I wonder what Elixir could do to Venom?

It would be close, but if written for carnage... Tbolts physically are screwed. However put a camera neat them... XForce is in trouble. Mutants do not need a black ops wet works team being caught on camera!

[The Lucky One]

Mutants do not need a black ops wet works team being caught on camera!

Simple solution to that- just have Roma do what she did to the X-Men at the end of Fall of the Mutants. Hard to get caught on camera when you're invisible to all electronic forms of detection.

-D

[theardri]

Simple solution to that- just have Roma do what she did to the X-Men at the end of Fall of the Mutants. Hard to get caught on camera when you're invisible to all electronic forms of detection.

-D


Nah Cop out! Scot should do what every leader should do when a black ops team screws up and gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar...

Deny deny deny.

I mean Domino, X-23 and Logan are known terrorists, Vanisher a criminal, Archangle is a psycopath ruining Warren Worthington the thirds name, and Rhane and Elixer are kids being lead on. Oh and that Indian obviously has some axe to grind ;)

Then Emma wipes their mind and Logan gets told off for being a sloppy

[Monty_Cristo]

Venom and Bullseye wouldn't be on the team if this fight were to occur. it's a different lineup. this fight would be more along the lines of X-Men vs the Marauders. the team Venom was on was more like Freedom Force.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Then the Cuckoos wipes their mind and Logan gets told off for being a sloppy

That sounds more like it. :tongue:

[darknessatnoon]

I think the Vanisher could easily defeat The Thunderbolts. The rest of his team could also do some damage against them.

[theardri]

That sounds more like it. :tongue:

Perhaps, except it hits TV, Scot is screwed with Emma...

"umm honey remember that black box in my mind ?"

long silence

"Suprize!!!"

[Monty_Cristo]

I think the Vanisher could easily defeat The Thunderbolts. The rest of his team could also do some damage against them.

and what would he do against Ghost (intangibility & invisibility)?

[darknessatnoon]

and what would he do against Ghost (intangibility & invisibility)?

I think the Ghost's intangibility and invisibility will be pretty useless when The Vanisher teleports him to the moon and leaves him there.

[Monty_Cristo]

I think the Ghost's intangibility and invisibility will be pretty useless when The Vanisher teleports him to the moon and leaves him there.

teleporting to the moon would kill the Vanisher. and he'd have to touch the Ghost to teleport him.

[darknessatnoon]

teleporting to the moon would kill the Vanisher. and he'd have to touch the Ghost to teleport him.

I'm sure The Vanisher could leave the moon in time.

[marvell2100]

I think the Ghost's intangibility and invisibility will be pretty useless when The Vanisher teleports him to the moon and leaves him there.

Does the Vanisher actually know how far it is too the moon? I think not. Let's ask Reed Richards.

Monte does have a point tho', the Vanisher would have to touch the Ghost and by that time he just might get shot. POW! POW!

[Monty_Cristo]

I'm sure The Vanisher could leave the moon in time.

?? you do realize how cold and oxygenless it is in space, right?

[darknessatnoon]

?? you do realize how cold and oxygenless it is in space, right?

Yes. I have seen Sunshine (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0448134/), starring Michelle Yeoh.

[Disgruntled1]

I think Bullseye is the most dangerous contender on the field, personally, of either team.I can't understand how a non-powered human that throws stuff and gets his butt handed to him by another non-powered human like clockwork is the most dangerous person in this situation. Bullseye is a human assassin with great aim and good fighting skills. That being said, anything he can do Wolverine, X-23, Warpath, and Domino can do better. Logan Warpath, and X by the nature of their powers (amped physical stats and senses) are going to have far better hand and eye coordination than Bullseye. Any pencap/paperclip throwing nonsense he can do they should be able to do far better. Domino by way of Luck powers could probably better him at sharpshooting herself, or at least hold even. The only other thing he does well is hand 2 hand. Unfortunately he's a human and his hand to hand wont mean anything to Wolvy, X, Warpath, or Archangel (possibly Dom) by way of their powers. Wolverine and X are flat out better fighters and killers to boot.

He may not be able to overcome his opponents' healing factors, but it's more or less a guarantee that he's going to do damage as long as he's got his hands free.It's not guaranteed at all. 1/2 of X-Force have either the skill or powerset to render him ineffective. A playing card, sai, or gun isn't going to do anything to most of X-Force's melee fighters with the exception of Wolfsbane. Even she has a healing factor and could probably plow through anything Bullseye does in transitional form and eat his face. He may have her in skill, but in that form she's still way tougher, stronger, faster, etc than he is.

Domino and Rahne, in particular, should have plenty to fear from him. He's taken a drubbing from Daredevil time and time again, but one has to remember that this is the guy who waxed Elektra, a fighter miles above anyone on X-Force but Wolverine.Elektra is a human ninja. A good fighter, but that's it. Just about everybody on X-Force offers something different than her. Domino besides being a very underrated fighter has Bullseye completely outclassed with ranged weapons, and she also has greater reflexes and agility than he does. All Domino has to do is attempt to dodge, her powers kick in and Bullseye is going to miss most of the time. And Rahne is a werewolf, and werewolf beats a human with good aim IMO.

[Monty_Cristo]

I can't understand how a non-powered human that throws stuff and gets his butt handed to him by another non-powered human like clockwork is the most dangerous person in this situation. Bullseye is a human assassin with great aim and good fighting skills. That being said, anything he can do Wolverine, X-23, Warpath, and Domino can do better. Logan Warpath, and X by the nature of their powers (amped physical stats and senses) are going to have far better hand and eye coordination than Bullseye. Any pencap/paperclip throwing nonsense he can do they should be able to do far better. Domino by way of Luck powers could probably better him at sharpshooting herself, or at least hold even. The only other thing he does well is hand 2 hand. Unfortunately he's a human and his hand to hand wont mean anything to Wolvy, X, Warpath, or Archangel (possibly Dom) by way of their powers. Wolverine and X are flat out better fighters and killers to boot.
It's not guaranteed at all. 1/2 of X-Force have either the skill or powerset to render him ineffective. A playing card, sai, or gun isn't going to do anything to most of X-Force's melee fighters with the exception of Wolfsbane. Even she has a healing factor and could probably plow through anything Bullseye does in transitional form and eat his face. He may have her in skill, but in that form she's still way tougher, stronger, faster, etc than he is.
Elektra is a human ninja. A good fighter, but that's it. Just about everybody on X-Force offers something different than her. Domino besides being a very underrated fighter has Bullseye completely outclassed with ranged weapons, and she also has greater reflexes and agility than he does. All Domino has to do is attempt to dodge, her powers kick in and Bullseye is going to miss most of the time. And Rahne is a werewolf, and werewolf beats a human with good aim IMO.

Deadpool has admitted to being scared of Bullseye. so did Gambit. both characters have enhanced agility or reaction time. both are decent marksmen. both are skilled with weaponry. one of them has a healing factor. when written well Bullseye is far from being a joke. and, even though it's up in the air, his powers border on mutancy. he has displayed psi powers, at one point. there's a reason why they keep him chained up & sedated in Thunderbolts mountain. and i'm not sure where you got the idea that Domino outclasses him with ranged weapons. Bullseye is the master of ranged weaponry. he literally can make anything a weapon. you seriously think that Wolverine could kill someone with a playing card or paper clip? :')

if you can find it cheap, i'd suggest reading the first issue of Identity Disc.

[The Lucky One]

Didn't Bullseye once almost kill Gambit? He frequently gives Daredevil trouble, whose senses are more acute than anyone on X-Force, and DD is nearly as good a fighter as Spider-Man... considering Spidey has fought entire teams of X-Men to a standstill in the past, I wouldn't downplay DD's abilities, and by extension Bullseye's. I wouldn't put it past him to nab a couple of Archangel's flechettes out of midair and throw them right into the eye sockets of Wolverine and X-23, putting them both out of the fight.

I dunno... like I said before, any one or two of the Thunderbolts fighting X-Force individually will actually do better than they would as a team. Send a couple of flying and/or energy blasters in (Moonstone, Songbird, maybe Radioactive Man) to pick them off from the air, with Bullseye as stealth backup, and they might actually stand a chance. But the whole team against X-Force? Decimated. Probably mostly by themselves.

-D

[Monty_Cristo]

but, again, Bullseye isn't on the new T-bolts roster. neither is Venom. don't you guys pay attention to solicits? :biggrin:

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?writer=Andy%20Diggle
(issue 128)

[The Lucky One]

No. I haven't read Thunderbolts since Ellis left. Guilty.

-D

[Disgruntled1]

Deadpool has admitted to being scared of Bullseye. so did Gambit.Doesn't seem to matter as DD consistantly punks him despite this so called fear.

and i'm not sure where you got the idea that Domino outclasses him with ranged weapons. Bullseye is the master of ranged weaponry. he literally can make anything a weapon.Because Domino uses things that are actually designed as ranged weapons. If Bullseye throws a paper clip at Domino he's going to get shot first by her sniper rifle before that paper clip gets even 1/4 of the way there. When he picks up an actual gun and starts consistently using one, then we'll talk.

you seriously think that Wolverine could kill someone with a playing card or paper clip?If Wolverine can take out a fighter plane with a bull fighter sword and a helicopter with a wrench, what does that tell you? He did Bullseye crap on a whole different scale. Anything a human with great aim can do Wolverine or X-23 with greater than human enhancements across the board and super senses should be able to do. You seriously don't think Wolverine can't? Powers like that and training like he has had should make it child's play.

[The Lucky One]

When he picks up an actual gun and starts consistently using one, then we'll talk.

Bullseye has used guns before, actually. He just usually doesn't because it makes it way, way too easy for him. When he does, he loads it with exactly as many bullets as he needs and no more. That number is usually one.

-D

[Monty_Cristo]

Doesn't seem to matter as DD consistantly punks him despite this so called fear.

an enraged Daredevil who has fought Bullseye more times than he can count beat Bullseye. whoopdeedoo. Wolverine has punked Sabretooth before. do you think Sabretooth could take Domino?


Because Domino uses things that are actually designed as ranged weapons. If Bullseye throws a paper clip at Domino he's going to get shot first by her sniper rifle before that paper clip gets even 1/4 of the way there. When he picks up an actual gun and starts consistently using one, then we'll talk.

then let's talk. Bullseye uses gun. he was sniping all throughout Secret Invasion.


If Wolverine can take out a fighter plane with a bull fighter sword and a helicopter with a wrench, what does that tell you? He did Bullseye crap on a whole different scale. Anything a human with great aim can do Wolverine or X-23 with greater than human enhancements across the board and super senses should be able to do. You seriously don't think Wolverine can't? Powers like that and training like he has had should make it child's play.

two nails take wolverine's eyes out. one slash across his throat leaves him out of the fight until he heals. Bullseye wouldn't be within claws-reach for any of these attacks. the reason Daredevil gets close is because of echolocation (and he has been clipped and taken out by bullseye before).

but anyways, who gives a f about Bullseye? he's not part of the new Thunderbolts lineup. but Mr. X is. remember him from the Bloodsport story arc in Wolverine?

[Wild Card13]

Doesn't seem to matter as DD consistantly punks him despite this so called fear.

He said Deadpool, not Daredevil.


Because Domino uses things that are actually designed as ranged weapons. If Bullseye throws a paper clip at Domino he's going to get shot first by her sniper rifle before that paper clip gets even 1/4 of the way there. When he picks up an actual gun and starts consistently using one, then we'll talk.

As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, Bullseye's schtick is that he's so good, he doesn't need actual ranged weapons. And as also argued previously, writers generally don't let Bullseye use guns because it takes all the challenge out of his character. Bullseye with the Punisher's arsenal means a very short end to most fights he's involved with.


If Wolverine can take out a fighter plane with a bull fighter sword and a helicopter with a wrench, what does that tell you? He did Bullseye crap on a whole different scale. Anything a human with great aim can do Wolverine or X-23 with greater than human enhancements across the board and super senses should be able to do. You seriously don't think Wolverine can't? Powers like that and training like he has had should make it child's play.

Wolverine has good accuracy, maybe even great accuracy. Bullseye has perfect accuracy. Just face it. Wolverine is good. But Bullseye? He's magic.

[Red Lotus]

Deadpool has admitted to being scared of Bullseye. so did Gambit. .

The Deadpool thing is Deadpool being Deadpool. Bullseye cant really do anything to Deadpool. Deadpool use Bullseye own weapon to beat him down once.

[Waterlily]

it's got nothing to do with who is more powerful. Tbolts would lose because they would, in effect, be the 'Freedom Force' of the story. it's their job to be a thorn in the side of whomever they are facing. they'll give them a fight but won't win enough to capture X-Force or cause any casualties. i think it'd be a fun match up; especially w/ the new tbolts lineup. you've got Yelena Belova to face off against X-23 or Domino. you got a big brawler with an axe (Headsman) to fight Warpath. you've got (potentially) Nuke a weapon plus super-soldier who has already gone a few rounds w/ Wolverine. you've got Paladin who has encountered Cable, the Hellfire Club, and Generation X. and then a bunch of question marks who can take their turns making X-Force look good.

I know, I just felt like mentioning Hepzibah and her magic space guns, honestly.

[Disgruntled1]

Bullseye has used guns before, actually.Sure he does, and I am completely aware of this, but the simple fact is he usually does NOT use firearms. Domino ALWAYS has firearms, so she will always have a ranged advantage. And even when they both use firearms she still has superpowers to turn the tide in her favor. Bullseye does not.

[Monty_Cristo]

Sure he does, and I am completely aware of this, but the simple fact is he usually does NOT use firearms. Domino ALWAYS has firearms, so she will always have a ranged advantage. And even when they both use firearms she still has superpowers to turn the tide in her favor. Bullseye does not.

he'd just throw something into the barrel. and Bullseye has done just fine fighting armed individuals in the past ex. the Punisher.

[Disgruntled1]

he'd just throw something into the barrel. and Bullseye has done just fine fighting armed individuals in the past ex. the Punisher.Who does not have super powers that will make Bullseye mess up. It's not the same.

[CMBMOOL]

Okay now that the new team of Thunderbolts are revealed to us, does anyone else think that X-force has a chance of winning if they were to confront each other in battle ? :tongue:

[Monty_Cristo]

Okay now that the new team of Thunderbolts are revealed to us, does anyone else think that X-force has a chance of winning if they were to confront each other in battle ? :tongue:

really depends on how you define "win." i'm certain that they'd escape w/ their lives. they do have a healer on standby and several healing factors. i think the T-bolts would give them a pretty nasty fight, though. i still think the Marauders analogy applies, here. these are Norman's Marauders; trained killers who know that they are dead if they fail the boss.

Wolverine vs Mister X
Domino vs Black Widow (possibly has hidden powers)
Warpath vs Nuke
X-23 vs Paladin
Archangel vs Headsman (on his flying platform)
Wolfsbane vs Ant-Man
Vanisher vs Ghost