Naruto: Itachi the strongest? We'll never know.

[Immortal]

Prior to and even after his death, Itachi was one the characters that was constantly debated over. Many thought he was the strongest in the Narutoverse, and with good reason. Some would like to think that since Itachi is dead, he was NOT the strongest. However, it was clear that Itachi was suffering from internal damage as well as the fact that he was not trying to kill Sasuke.

So can anyone actually come to a logical conclusion on Itachi's strength?

Personally, I find any "Who's the strongest/most powerful?" type questions faulty because there are too many variables to actually say who is. But in terms of a fictional universe, is Itachi the strongest? Or will the manner of his death prevent us from ever really knowing.

[Guy1]

I'd say Pein is allot more powerful.

[Nik Hasta]

I'd say Pein is allot more powerful.

It's between him and Itachi no matter how you look at it.

I'd be inclined to say Itachi is a bit stronger just because Susanoo and that crazy sword infinite genjutsu deal is a tough combo to beat even for someone like Pein.

It would have been nice to see Itachi go full out without being injured or sick or blind but he was still insanely impressive.

[Totoro Man]

hmm, kind of a toss-up in my mind.

Pein has a far larger range of abilities. living in 6 bodies also makes him much harder to defeat.

Itachi seemed pretty much unbeatable every time he fought. and even then, if he was defeated--it was later ret-conned to only LOOK like he was defeated. "oh, that was an inferior clone" or "he was already injured".

we can only "guess" that since Itachi said that he could probably beat Jiraiya, but he'd get screwed up royally by that (or possibly killed) that Pein could defeat Itachi. sure, it's A-B-C logic-- but based on actual feats, I think Pein really COULD defeat Itachi.

his multiple bodies and rinnegan could probably counter the Sharingan. the only genjutsu that could work on him would be based on sound (which he showed a weakness against) or touch.

if Itachi can touch Pein then he can take him out but, I think it would end up killing him in the process.

and I gotta wonder, why on earth didn't he use the genjutsu sword on some of his adversaries earlier? that thing would have precluded a lot of the drawn out and nasty fights they've had going up against the tailed beasts! one swipe or stab of that sword and the beasts would be completely incapacitated.

[Guy1]

hmm, kind of a toss-up in my mind.

Pein has a far larger range of abilities. living in 6 bodies also makes him much harder to defeat.

Itachi seemed pretty much unbeatable every time he fought. and even then, if he was defeated--it was later ret-conned to only LOOK like he was defeated. "oh, that was an inferior clone" or "he was already injured".

we can only "guess" that since Itachi said that he could probably beat Jiraiya, but he'd get screwed up royally by that (or possibly killed) that Pein could defeat Itachi. sure, it's A-B-C logic-- but based on actual feats, I think Pein really COULD defeat Itachi.

his multiple bodies and rinnegan could probably counter the Sharingan. the only genjutsu that could work on him would be based on sound (which he showed a weakness against) or touch.

if Itachi can touch Pein then he can take him out but, I think it would end up killing him in the process.

and I gotta wonder, why on earth didn't he use the genjutsu sword on some of his adversaries earlier? that thing would have precluded a lot of the drawn out and nasty fights they've had going up against the tailed beasts! one swipe or stab of that sword and the beasts would be completely incapacitated.

It was his big gun, his ace up the sleeve as it was, and I'm willing to bet it took buttloads of chakra to use.
Besides, his genjutsu was pwning people left and right as it was.

[Guy1]

It's between him and Itachi no matter how you look at it.

I'd be inclined to say Itachi is a bit stronger just because Susanoo and that crazy sword infinite genjutsu deal is a tough combo to beat even for someone like Pein.

It would have been nice to see Itachi go full out without being injured or sick or blind but he was still insanely impressive.

I feel the same way about my man Kimminaro.
A shame we never saw him at 100%, the dude was a monster.

[arp2008]

Kisame is a contender withut doubt, guys. The man single-handely took on all of Team Guy with relative ease, an remembr, he was at 30% full strength. Sasori is another msterful ninja that comesto mind when talking the strongest in teh Narutoverse. His poisons would be enough to kil an ninja, including, Itachi, and he had enough tricks and weapons that even Peinwould have call out a six bodes to have a chance. In the end, no match is as staightfoward as it seems so picking a most stongest isn't as simple one would like to make it. Itachi > Pein? Pein > Sasori? Kisami + Itachi > Jiraiya? Unless we see a fight orcastratd by the creator himself, we will truly never know.

[Dark Soul # 7]

The one thing Itachi really sucked at was stamina. The rest he was practically a god at. So if you can get through all his uber-jutsus, Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo he probably won't have much left before dying.

I'd say it's possible for Pein to get through the three big attacks of Itachi. But he'd probably lose a few bodies along the way.

[Totoro Man]

yeah, that's what I was thinking too... he's got so many bodies at his disposal (summons and the like) that he could beat Itachi nearly every time on pure attrition.

[arp2008]

The one thing Itachi really sucked at was stamina. The rest he was practically a god at. So if you can get through all his uber-jutsus, Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo he probably won't have much left before dying. Yo can practilly say the same thing about Kakashi. As powerful as these are procaimed to be they needed som kind of kryptonite to bring them down to a more managable.

I'd say it's possible for Pein to get through the three big attacks of Itachi. But he'd probably lose a few bodies along the way. How you see Pein penatrating sosano?

[arp2008]

You guys think Pein would be able to deflect Amaterasu the way he deflected Kakashi's lightning attacks?

[Dark Soul # 7]

How you see Pein penatrating sosano?He doesn't really need to break the shield or attack it. He just has to make sure that he isn't caught by the sword.

With multiple bodies and all of them being smaller than a giant 8-headed snake it should be doable.

[Dark Soul # 7]

You guys think Pein would be able to deflect Amaterasu the way he deflected Kakashi's lightning attacks?Why not? Hungry Ghost Pein can probably absorb/seal it away too.

[arp2008]

Why not? Hungry Ghost Pein can probably absorb/seal it away too. IDK. Amaterasu is a special justu, isn't it? Meh. It doesn't matter. Itachi's dead. Pein is seemingly unstoppable. Naruto's a joke. Everything is good. Not for Konoha, anyway.

[Totoro Man]

quick question, is Itachi's shield a wall? is it spherical? it appeared to be a chakra wall that deflected Sasuke's attacks.

additionally, if Pein can deflect chidori why on earth could he NOT deflect Amaterasu? both are elemental attacks (lighting and fire, respectively). so I don't see why he couldn't No-Sell Itachi's attack just as he did with Kakashi. he's proven on more than one occassion that he can do that. so he's got the "feats" to back that up.

[arp2008]

quick question, is Itachi's shield a wall? is it spherical? it appeared to be a chakra wall that deflected Sasuke's attacks. It surrounds his entire body like a shell.

additionally, if Pein can deflect chidori why on earth could he NOT deflect Amaterasu? both are elemental attacks (lighting and fire, respectively). so I don't see why he couldn't No-Sell Itachi's attack just as he did with Kakashi. he's proven on more than one occassion that he can do that. so he's got the "feats" to back that up. Yep. It seems Pein would be able to. The key, though, would be to attack Pein during that five second intervel where he can't use his moves. That's is the key to beating deva Pein. WIth this knowldge anyone could come with a plan of attack to take him down.

[Dark Soul # 7]

It surrounds his entire body like a shell.Actually the susanoo construct had a giant-sized shield that seemed like it could only block from one direction. It could be moved though.
Yep. It seems Pein would be able to. The key, though, would be to attack Pein during that five second intervel where he can't use his moves. That's is the key to beating deva Pein. WIth this knowldge anyone could come with a plan of attack to take him down.You make it seem like it's easy to do that.

Pein knows his weaknesses better than anyone else and can compensate by dodging and such. Just because you have a plan to beat him doesn't mean that it'll work or that he won't have a plan to counter your plan. And most importantly, there are FIVE more Pein's to worry about.

[arp2008]

You make it seem like it's easy to do that.

Pein knows his weaknesses better than anyone else and can compensate by dodging and such. Just because you have a plan to beat him doesn't mean that it'll work or that he won't have a plan to counter your plan. And most importantly, there are FIVE more Pein's to worry about. I was talking about fighting only the Deva Pein. All one would need is great speed to make the most of that interval. And guess who has great speed and was just re-introduced last chapter? Huh? Can you guess? Yea, them. Gia and Lee, baby!! 5 seconds for them is akin to an enternity with their speed and deftness.

[Totoro Man]

It surrounds his entire body like a shell.

Yep. It seems Pein would be able to. The key, though, would be to attack Pein during that five second intervel where he can't use his moves. That's is the key to beating deva Pein. WIth this knowldge anyone could come with a plan of attack to take him down.

really, because when I read the manga pages it looked like a wall in front of him. moreover, Zetsu described it as some sort of mystical artifact calling it the mirror of something or other--but it very clearly looked like a flat wall being projected in front of him.

in other words, he can STILL get outflanked or blind-sided from behind. if he's surrounded by multiple opponents it might not even be worth the trouble of using it.

not based on what I've seen of it's one time usage in the manga.

granted, if Itachi is fighting any single body of Pein, I think he'll win. but if we're talking about how to defeat Pein as a collective entity--that's quite different. I don't think Itachi could do that without prep-time w/o possibly killing himself in the process.

[Totoro Man]

I was talking about fighting only the Deva Pein. All one would need is great speed to make the most of that interval. And guess who has great speed and was just re-introduced last chapter? Huh? Can you guess? Yea, them. Gia and Lee, baby!! 5 seconds for them is akin to an enternity with their speed and deftness.

yeah, but that seems really odd.

if the gap of time was really 5 seconds, that would be a terribly long time in any sort of real fight.

Kakashi has numerous speed feats that suggest (at least to me) that he could have easily cleared the distance between him and Pein and skewered the guy if it was actually a 5 seconds time gap between usage.

I hope Gai and Lee show up and kick some major ass. that would be nice.

[arp2008]

Kakashi has numerous speed feats... Just refresh my memory, what speed feats are you referring to?

[Miburohunter929]

really, because when I read the manga pages it looked like a wall in front of him. moreover, Zetsu described it as some sort of mystical artifact calling it the mirror of something or other--but it very clearly looked like a flat wall being projected in front of him.

in other words, he can STILL get outflanked or blind-sided from behind. if he's surrounded by multiple opponents it might not even be worth the trouble of using it.

not based on what I've seen of it's one time usage in the manga.

granted, if Itachi is fighting any single body of Pein, I think he'll win. but if we're talking about how to defeat Pein as a collective entity--that's quite different. I don't think Itachi could do that without prep-time w/o possibly killing himself in the process.

My thoughts on Itachi VS Pain...

If Pain can beat Susanno depends on if we allow the Databook stuff about Susanno in, since we only have one feat of it being used, and it raped.

In the databook, it more or less states it to be able to stop all elemental attacks, and physical, and damn near everything else.

Obviously, it dosn't have the feats to support that, aside from no-selling Kirin, and explosions, and yada yada.

So, going by feats, yeah...It's probally unlikely Susanno is stoping alot of that stuff, but only the Pains with the more esoteric attacks like the soul rip and such are gonna hurt him.

I'm not seeing anything else work, seeing as how the massive explosions ( I remember noting the explosions to be really, really, large, IIRC) and lighting thrown his way didnt even slow him down.

If we allow databook statements, then so far it's reputed to be the be all end all.

...Although, I do think the Mirror of Yamata was said to no-sell all attacks in cannon also, but I'm sure as fuck not gonna check.

I'm tired. And obviously it becomes a fallacy at some point, but I digress.

But he's certainly not getting outflanked or something.

It was less a wall, and more a giant spectral form Itachi was inside.

Note that when it had just began forming, in it's tiny form, it still stoped Kirin with the greatest of ease.

I'm not seeing attacking from a different angle really doing much.

Not to mention the mirror not having a solid form, like the Sword, IIRC.

[Guy1]

My thoughts on Itachi VS Pain...

If Pain can beat Susanno depends on if we allow the Databook stuff about Susanno in, since we only have one feat of it being used, and it raped.

In the databook, it more or less states it to be able to stop all elemental attacks, and physical, and damn near everything else.

Obviously, it dosn't have the feats to support that, aside from no-selling Kirin, and explosions, and yada yada.

So, going by feats, yeah...It's probally unlikely Susanno is stoping alot of that stuff, but only the Pains with the more esoteric attacks like the soul rip and such are gonna hurt him.

I'm not seeing anything else work, seeing as how the massive explosions and lighting thrown his way didnt even slow him down.

If we allow databook statements, then so far it's reputed to be the be all end all.

...Although, I do think the Mirror of Yamata was said to no-sell all attacks in cannon also, but I'm sure as fuck not gonna check.

I'm tired. And obviously it becomes a fallacy at some point, but I digress.

But he's certainly not getting outflanked or something.

It was less a wall, and more a giant spectral form Itachi was inside.

Note that when it had just began forming, in it's tiny form, it still stoped Kirin with the greatest of ease.

I'm not seeing attacking from a different angle really doing much.

Not to mention the mirror not having a solid form, like the Sword, IIRC.


I want to say again that was an unfairly broken technique.

[Miburohunter929]

I want to say again that was an unfairly broken technique.

Agreed. Even if we dont allow databook statements, at the very least, Taijutsu is absolutely useless, and Lighting is 100% Innefective.

I'm pretty sure Kirin was S-ranked, and it was mentioned that it's alot more powerful then Lightining Jutsu.

It failed spactularly. Now, while you can argue that Susanno didnt go against all the elements, judging from the way that nothing seemed to phase it whatsoever....

I mean, jesus, Sasuke tossed out the biggest exploding tags I've seen at one point, if my memory serves and it didnt even slow Itachi's walking.

So yeah, assuming we dont rule lawyer the hell out of it and the fact that getting cut by it seals your soul--

Hell, forget the sealing soul bit. It sucked the whole of Orochimaru, his hydra, and his sword into into the gourd.

Not to mention not having a physical form.

Hell, I'd wager that he could make a whip, or anything else out of it, if the situtation called for it.

Not to mention it's likely unblockable, seeing as how it SUCKS YOUR BODY INTO A FUCKING GOURD. Note Itachi being dead dosn't help Oro.

So, honestly, it's pratically a black hole. I could see it sucking up a Rashomon gate no prob, IMO.

Although, It /might/ have to be a living organism, but I'm skeptical, mostly because my memory of the whole situation fails me.

..Yeah, it's pretty overpowered.

I bet Senninjutsu>>>It though. When Naruto finishes anyways.

Or, it'll never be used again, or the strain almost kills Sasuke.

I can't see Sasuke getting such a haxx technique without consequnces, assuming he gets it. Or it'll have a weakness or something.

[Guy1]

Agreed. Even if we dont allow databook statements, at the very least, Taijutsu is absolutely useless, and Lighting is 100% Innefective.

I'm pretty sure Kirin was S-ranked, and it was mentioned that it's alot more powerful then Lightining Jutsu.

It failed spactularly. Now, while you can argue that Susanno didnt go against all the elements, judging from the way that nothing seemed to phase it whatsoever....

I mean, jesus, Sasuke tossed out the biggest exploding tags I've seen at one point, if my memory serves and it didnt even slow Itachi's walking.

So yeah, assuming we dont rule lawyer the hell out of it and the fact that getting cut by it seals your soul--

Hell, forget the sealing soul bit. It sucked the whole of Orochimaru, his hydra, and his sword into into the gourd.

Not to mention not having a physical form.

Hell, I'd wager that he could make a whip, or anything else out of it, if the situtation called for it.

Not to mention it's likely unblockable, seeing as how it SUCKS YOUR BODY INTO A FUCKING GOURD.

..Yeah, it's pretty overpowered.

I bet Senninjutsu>>>It though. When Naruto finishes anyways.

Or, it'll never be used again, or the strain almost kills Sasuke.

I can't see Sasuke getting such a haxx technique without consequnces, assuming he gets it.

On the consequences part, Sasuke is already getting those.
As the post-Mr.8-tails fight showed, his eye sight is starting to go bad.
Sooo.....barring Madara doing something about it, he's in trouble.
I'd say bite Karin again............but considering he did that in the 8-tails fight I think more then once and his eyesight is messed as of now, I'm not sure that would help.
I also believe such a huge technique utilizes a buttload of chakra to produce and keep up.

[Miburohunter929]

On the consequences part, Sasuke is already getting those.
As the post-Mr.8-tails fight showed, his eye sight is starting to go bad.
Sooo.....barring Madara doing something about it, he's in trouble.
I'd say bite Karin again............but considering he did that in the 8-tails fight I think more then once and his eyesight is messed as of now, I'm not sure that would help.
I also believe such a huge technique utilizes a buttload of chakra to produce and keep up.

No doubt. Itachi didnt seem to be able to keep it up for five minutes.

Kirin hits, Susanno gets acitvated, and stops it.

Sasuke throws tags, shit happens, Susanno keeps growing.

Susanno finishes growing, Oro pops out, Oro gets sealed.

Susanno starts dissapearing again, ZombItachi walks towards Sasuke whose throwing out gigantic explosions.

Susanno disapears.

I mean, sure, he had all kinds of problems at the moment, but there's no doubt in my mind it's probally more taxing then Amatersu and Tsukyomi, possibly put together.

Although, it's gotta be good for him that the Jutsu dosn't even have to be complete for him to be pretty close to invincible against attacks.

...I wish we got some Akatsuki Gaidens.

I'm curious as to who the fuck he used it on.

Shit, for that matter, when did Oro use his Hydra technique? I mean, Itachi was pretty familar with it, IIRC.

...But anyways, I'd say the Pains with a Soul rip, or some of those other attacks are the best bet.

I suppose you could /try/ to say the Chakra Absorbing Pain, but honestly, It would seem kinda iffy to me.

[Guy1]

No doubt. Itachi didnt seem to be able to keep it up for five minutes.

Kirin hits, Susanno gets acitvated, and stops it.

Sasuke throws tags, shit happens, Susanno keeps growing.

Susanno finishes growing, Oro pops out, Oro gets sealed.

Susanno starts dissapearing again, ZombItachi walks towards Sasuke whose throwing out gigantic explosions.

Susanno disapears.

I mean, sure, he had all kinds of problems at the moment, but there's no doubt in my mind it's probally more taxing then Amatersu and Tsukyomi, possibly put together.

Although, it's gotta be good for him that the Jutsu dosn't even have to be complete for him to be pretty close to invincible against attacks.

...I wish we got some Akatsuki Gaidens.

I'm curious as to who the fuck he used it on.

Shit, for that matter, when did Oro use his Hydra technique? I mean, Itachi was pretty familar with it, IIRC.

...But anyways, I'd say the Pains with a Soul rip, or some of those other attacks are the best bet.

I suppose you could /try/ to say the Chakra Absorbing Pain, but honestly, It would seem kinda iffy to me.

Just to point this out, Itachi was already in bad shape when he used Susanoo, so that may have played some part in it. I agree with the rest though.


On the topic of Gaiden's, I would have liked a mini one for Kimminaro, just to see what sort of monster he was at full health.

[DaeJi]

Itachi is one of those characters that was kind of... mishandled. He was given no real weaknesses and too many instance win powers; he was boring (really, the whole Sharingan thing is just a mess). What thrill was there to an Itachi fight, if he controlled everything. The crap that happened after his death (he was sick and holding back and wanted you to win and was really a good guy despite being a soul-less killer and ruining your life) just made it worse. I liked him in part one; he was powerful, but did not come off as unbeatable. Part two... the manga is better off with him forgotten in all honest. He played his part (and part that was probably too big for him in the first place, though that's really because of how it tied to Sasuke and Sasuke's role is too big) and should be lain to rest.

As for his power level, I remember the author stating that he was below pain and even with Jiraya. It was in an issue of Jump I believe, not on an online scan. Don't quote me though, I'm not sure. Plot wise it seems about right.

[Guy1]

Itachi is one of those characters that was kind of... mishandled. He was given no real weaknesses and too many instance win powers; he was boring (really, the whole Sharingan thing is just a mess). What thrill was there to an Itachi fight, if he controlled everything. The crap that happened after his death (he was sick and holding back and wanted you to win and was really a good guy despite being a soul-less killer and ruining your life) just made it worse. I liked him in part one; he was powerful, but did not come off as unbeatable. Part two... the manga is better off with him forgotten in all honest. He played his part (and part that was probably too big for him in the first place, though that's really because of how it tied to Sasuke and Sasuke's role is too big) and should be lain to rest.


I agree with this.

[Gunsmith]

Personally I would say the 3rd was the strongest ninja but he does not have enough feats

[Guy1]

Well, with the recent chapter, Pain is officially far, far more powerful then Itachi.

[Miburohunter929]

Well, with the recent chapter, Pain is officially far, far more powerful then Itachi.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't be surprised if Susanno had what it took to tank the attack, but going by established feats...

Yeah.

[Guy1]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't be surprised if Susanno had what it took to tank the attack, but going by established feats...

Yeah.

Same here, in Universe it's supposed to be the Ultimate Defense bar none.
By feats though, we don't have proof it could tank the blast.

[Nik Hasta]

Same here, in Universe it's supposed to be the Ultimate Defense bar none.
By feats though, we don't have proof it could tank the blast.

Actually I think it does.

Shinra Tensei only a massive pushing force to be fair.

As long as Susanoo can cushion Itachi from the impact of being flung hella far, which consdering it kept him comfortable during a building busting lightning blast I think it can, he should be fine.

[Chrosis]

Actually I think it does.

Shinra Tensei only a massive pushing force to be fair.

As long as Susanoo can cushion Itachi from the impact of being flung hella far, which consdering it kept him comfortable during a building busting lightning blast I think it can, he should be fine.

City Busting >>>>>> Building Busting

[Nik Hasta]

City Busting >>>>>> Building Busting

City busting shockwave isn't actually stronger than a building busting lightning blast in terms of what Susanoo would actually have to do to keep Itachi alive.

A super durable human would have more chance of surviving Pain's attack than Sasuke's. A direct hit from a lightning bolt of that magnitude would do far more damage than being hurled by a shockwave.

[Guy1]

City busting shockwave isn't actually stronger than a building busting lightning blast in terms of what Susanoo would actually have to do to keep Itachi alive.

A super durable human would have more chance of surviving Pain's attack than Sasuke's. A direct hit from a lightning bolt of that magnitude would do far more damage than being hurled by a shockwave.

Kirin is pretty much just hype, Sasuke used it, it got no sold by Susanoo.
We can't tell how powerful it actually is off that feat.
Whereas with Pain, we've seen what his attack can do, his big attack has shown it's power.

[Miburohunter929]

Kirin is pretty much just hype, Sasuke used it, it got no sold by Susanoo.
We can't tell how powerful it actually is off that feat.
Whereas with Pain, we've seen what his attack can do, his big attack has shown it's power.

Well, it's at the least lolfully more powerful then Chidori.

Real Lighting>>>>>>Chakra lighting.

And that was some strong lighting, and it was way, way, way, bigger then Chidori.

[Nik Hasta]

Kirin is pretty much just hype, Sasuke used it, it got no sold by Susanoo.
We can't tell how powerful it actually is off that feat.
Whereas with Pain, we've seen what his attack can do, his big attack has shown it's power.

You what? Hype?

It blew apart the castle/hill thing that Itachi and Sasuke were inside.

It's a phenomenally powerful attack, granted on a smaller scale than Shinra Tensei, but it takes more energy to do what Sasuke did than what Pain did. I see no reason why Susanoo couldn't protect him from it.

Remember Shinra Tensei was just a shockwave, nothing more. No heat, no other damage beyond raw force. Itachi could only actually be hit with one small part of it.

Kirin was an explosive shockwave, focussed into a smaller area, combined with extreme heat and Susanoo sat in the centre without even a dink.

I still think Pain would eventually kill Itachi simply because he'd need Susanoo to survive and Pain could play keep-away with his flight until he can't muster the chakra to keep his sheild. Then he hits him with something nasty and Itachi dies.

[Guy1]

You what? Hype?

It blew apart the castle/hill thing that Itachi and Sasuke were inside.

It's a phenomenally powerful attack, granted on a smaller scale than Shinra Tensei, but it takes more energy to do what Sasuke did than what Pain did. I see no reason why Susanoo couldn't protect him from it.

Remember Shinra Tensei was just a shockwave, nothing more. No heat, no other damage beyond raw force. Itachi could only actually be hit with one small part of it.

Kirin was an explosive shockwave, focussed into a smaller area, combined with extreme heat and Susanoo sat in the centre without even a dink.

I still think Pain would eventually kill Itachi simply because he'd need Susanoo to survive and Pain could play keep-away with his flight until he can't muster the chakra to keep his sheild. Then he hits him with something nasty and Itachi dies.

Hm, didn't remember the blowing up a castle part, just that it was no sold by Susanoo. Your probably right.

[Dark Soul # 7]

You what? Hype?

It blew apart the castle/hill thing that Itachi and Sasuke were inside.

It's a phenomenally powerful attack, granted on a smaller scale than Shinra Tensei, but it takes more energy to do what Sasuke did than what Pain did. I see no reason why Susanoo couldn't protect him from it.

Remember Shinra Tensei was just a shockwave, nothing more. No heat, no other damage beyond raw force. Itachi could only actually be hit with one small part of it.

Kirin was an explosive shockwave, focussed into a smaller area, combined with extreme heat and Susanoo sat in the centre without even a dink.

I still think Pain would eventually kill Itachi simply because he'd need Susanoo to survive and Pain could play keep-away with his flight until he can't muster the chakra to keep his sheild. Then he hits him with something nasty and Itachi dies.How did you get that kirin takes more energy than shinra tensei?

Sasuke used powerful, possibly A-rank, fire attacks to heat up the air which created lightning clouds and then he used lightning chakra to direct the gathered lightning.

Shinra tensei apparently shortens Pein's life. Sounds like overall more energy to me.

[Nik Hasta]

How did you get that kirin takes more energy than shinra tensei?

Sasuke used powerful, possibly A-rank, fire attacks to heat up the air which created lightning clouds and then he used lightning chakra to direct the gathered lightning.

Shinra tensei apparently shortens Pein's life. Sounds like overall more energy to me.

Have you looked at the retarded amount of lightning and damage done by that lightning in the scene in question?

Shinra Tensei, while very impressive in scale was just a big gravitational shove outwards. Kirin was much more "damaging if you follow me,"

[Dark Soul # 7]

Have you looked at the retarded amount of lightning and damage done by that lightning in the scene in question?

Shinra Tensei, while very impressive in scale was just a big gravitational shove outwards. Kirin was much more "damaging if you follow me,"Oh, that kind of energy. Then I follow ya.

...

Now I want to see the two techniques collide to see which one wins and it's all your guys' fault.

[yollyP.]

Well, with the recent chapter, Pain is officially far, far more powerful then Itachi.
I agree. Itachi cannot even do what Pein did now. Pein blew up the village of Konoha. But I never dismissed the abilities of Itachi. We never know what will happen if they fight. There are so many factors to consider when comparing these two. But think of this, I dont know if this is true or a hoax, they say Madara gives orders to Pein. But we all know Rinnegan is better than Sharingan right?.

[yollyP.]

Well, with the recent chapter, Pain is officially far, far more powerful then Itachi.
I agree. Itachi cannot even do what Pein did. Pein blew up the village of Konoha. But I never dismissed the abilities of Itachi. We never know what will happen if they fight. There are so many factors to consider when comparing these two. But think of this, (I dont know if this is true or a hoax), they say Madara gives orders to Pein. But we all know Rinnegan is better than Sharingan right?.

[Darth Drizzle]

When did needing to gather energy/chakra to do a omnidirectional blast that shortens your life and is not as powerful as a directed/singular attack suddenly become the counter for the Sharingon?

Itachi would see the energy building up inside of Pein whether its a large or small force blast, and can still read moves.

Also Pein has no real speed feats(except fighting Jiraya who himself has no speed feats), and Itachi was still beating a powered up Sasuke(who would be faster than his Pre Timeskip form) who had Rock Lee speed. And he showed that he can use ALL his jutsu/skills at high speeds(clones, Genjutsu, Amaratsu, Susanoo, etx) and this was all after being injured/nearly dead/not wanting to kill.

Pein is now one of my favorites too, but you need more than flashy moves to beat a person like Itachi.

[Quixx]

I agree. Itachi cannot even do what Pein did. Pein blew up the village of Konoha. But I never dismissed the abilities of Itachi. We never know what will happen if they fight. There are so many factors to consider when comparing these two. But think of this, (I dont know if this is true or a hoax), they say Madara gives orders to Pein. But we all know Rinnegan is better than Sharingan right?.

Well, it's been said that the Rinnegan is the better of the three eye techniques, but this isn't to say that the user will use said eye technique to the best of it's ability. It's all about the person using the technique, not the technique itself (in my opinion).

It's like when you're playing a fighting game and both players choose to fight with the same character. In terms of strength, stamina, speed and powers the players are equal, which leaves the players relying on their cunning and knowledge of how to use their characters abilities better then their opponent.

Sure Pein may have the "best" technique, but perhaps Madara somehow managed to get a better understanding of Peins weaknesses, leaving him in the power position. This is all assumption of course.

[Da Shinigami]

When did needing to gather energy/chakra to do a omnidirectional blast that shortens your life and is not as powerful as a directed/singular attack suddenly become the counter for the Sharingon?

Itachi would see the energy building up inside of Pein whether its a large or small force blast, and can still read moves.

Also Pein has no real speed feats(except fighting Jiraya who himself has no speed feats), and Itachi was still beating a powered up Sasuke(who would be faster than his Pre Timeskip form) who had Rock Lee speed. And he showed that he can use ALL his jutsu/skills at high speeds(clones, Genjutsu, Amaratsu, Susanoo, etx) and this was all after being injured/nearly dead/not wanting to kill.

Pein is now one of my favorites too, but you need more than flashy moves to beat a person like Itachi.

Well as of today the Sharingon still has loads more feats than the Rinnegon's(and we still haven't seen all the Sharingons power) if that means anything.

[Chrosis]

IDK. Amaterasu is a special justu, isn't it? Meh. It doesn't matter. Itachi's dead. Pein is seemingly unstoppable. Naruto's a joke. Everything is good. Not for Konoha, anyway.

Oh, its a special technique.

Nevermind then, Itachi wins without a doubt. :wink:

...

[Sarcasm oozes from this post like a sponge saturated in thick molasses]

[darksaint124]

Well as of today the Sharingon still has loads more feats than the Rinnegon's(and we still haven't seen all the Sharingons power) if that means anything.

Actually Rinnegan has more feats. Creating most of the jutsu we see used is a feat.

I'm pretty sure we've seen everything the Sharingan can do, we haven't seen everything the Rinnegan can do.

[Kage Kisaragi]

we can only "guess" that since Itachi said that he could probably beat Jiraiya, but he'd get screwed up royally by that (or possibly killed) that Pein could defeat Itachi. sure, it's A-B-C logic-- but based on actual feats, I think Pein really COULD defeat Itachi.

Except from what was pointed out to me was that Jiraiya allowed himself to die, since he didn't want to retreat and pass up a chance to get some info on Pein.

So all this proves is that potentially Jiraiya could have survived his battle with Pein, and thus throw this type of logic into question on whether who is stronger.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I'm pretty sure we've seen everything the Sharingan can do, we haven't seen everything the Rinnegan can do.

im not so sure about this statement, from the looks of it, these eye jutsus just take on more power with each generation/potential of the user. Kakashi could make dimensional warps with his eye, Itachi had the classic version or so we are lead to believe, and Sasuke has proven to be able to control the ama part of it, so there is really not telling where this is going with him, and of course out all the users it was said that Sasuke has the most ability when it comes to the Sharingan, so again no telling what it will allow for in the future.