Wolverine MD#2 Spoilers

[DeadXMan]

Here's the summery:

Wolverine gets his ass handed to him. Throughly.

I mean this is worse then any beating I've ever seen.
( think of Magneto pulling out the adamantium and times that by 1,000:eek: )

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr150/DXM616/md.png
any ways it turns out that his ex is now the leader of the criminal underworld. and yes the old saying is true
Hell hath no furry like a woman scorn.
her furry is in the form of the black dragon squad. bodyguards designed to do one thing. Kill wolverine.

rock of Buddha:
big guy look like he has abomination graphed on to his side. Logan claims he hits as hard as thing.... if the thing was a 9th degree black belt.
and could kick you in the face

fist of fire:
the area he touch you will be set on fire or explodes
he disable Logan's left arm

storm sword:
Magic sword that creates a tornado that side Logan into a building

soul striker:
he looks like a regular fighter. Logan tries to make fun of him, until he punches through Logan's chest and makes him relive every nasty memory.

they continue to pummel him to the point that his HF can't take much more.
Fortunately the Calvary is on the way in the form of police sirens. It was enough of a distraction to let Logan crawl away into the sewers and attempt to heal as he was fading out, Two hands decided on him.

flashback 1958
the triad is taking protection from a Chinese restaurant owner. It is not enough so they decide to take it out of his daughter blood as they ready the sword, Enter Logan asking about the noddles. The triad puts the sword to him but he pulls out a gun and says:
"this peashooter has open up more @$$holes, then Castor oil. "
they leave
the now smitten daughter asks if he stay or just passing through.

we see images of fighting with Logan saying he might have a future in china town.

next Logan wakes up in a cave with a master Po telling he will die the next time he faces them unless he agrees to being trained by him
Logan accepts and the lessons shall begin.

Next issue: Montague!

really liking this Mini
it proves Arron should be on wolverine permanently
the art is good
Segovia reminds me of a vary clean Yu.

9 out ten

[B. Kuwanger]

Seeing them side by side this week, I have to say, I prefer Segovia to Yu. The latter can be quite inconsistent and skip on a ton of detail from panel to panel. Segovia actually reminds me a bit of Rocafort.

Jason Aaron, of course, puts out another solid Wolverine comic. He really should be on the character. His Marvel stories generally have the ability to turn cheesy into badass and cliche into classic. And that's pretty much what this issue was all about.

Getting punched in the soul...ha, man.

[pharoahe22]

It's no secret that I'm a Wolverine fan. I've also made it very clear that Jason Aaron is one of my favorite writers and I was super excited for this run. With that said, I have to say I had a very hard time enjoying this issue. I'll explain why. I have absolutely no problem with Wolverine getting his ass kicked badly in this issue. None whatsoever. Wolverine's no fun if he can never lose/be killed(or come close to it). Some of the best stories are when the hero loses badly, and then learns something new to overcome a hard challenge. No problem with that at all. My problem with this whole arc so far is the downplaying of Wolverine's fighting skills.

As bad as some of the Wolverine: Origins arcs were, Daniel Way never downplayed Wolverine's skill. In fact, he wrote Wolverine to his abilities, since Wolverine's power charts have stated that he's a master of nearly every form of armed and unarmed combat known to man...and this has been pretty much the case since 1991 (the first time I saw a Wolverine power chart). Jason Aaron's first interview solely about Wolverine:Manifest Destiny started out by saying: "If you had an adamantium skeleton and healing factor and couldn't be killed, would you bother to learn Kung fu?". Then he has Wolverine saying things like "I hate Kung fu" and other things like that in the books, and Wolverine comes off like a guy who has lived through fights solely because of his hf and adamantium, and has no real skill outside of hack and slash. Which completely ignores things like this, which happened around 1948:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/pharoahe214/Wolverinetraining1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/pharoahe214/Wolverinetraining2.jpg

It also ignores the fact that Wolverine was an apprentice of Ogun, a ninja and martial arts master. For a little background info on Ogun: According to Wolverine #113 (May, 1997, Ogun first met Wolverine in Shanghai, China. At the time Shanghai was held by the Empire of Japan, following the Battle of Shanghai in the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937 - 1945). Ogun was reportedly active in the War as a captain of the Imperial Japanese Army. Wolverine was only a wandering sailor but managed to draw the attention of the captain who would seek his acquaintance. Logan soon started training under Ogun, who was said by some to be invincible. Of course this is before Ogun's arrogance turned him evil.

It also ignores the Weapon X program, which has turned out top notch fighters like Deadpool and X-23, and Team X (Black Ops), his training and brainwashing under Murumasa, and Wolverine's military training.

So if Jason Aaron's arc is staying in continuity, Wolverine would have at least trained under Ogun, the master from Itsu's village, and Murumasa before Master Po and the events that took place in San Fransico's Chinatown in 1958. So now, in 2008, Logan is fighting these souped up fighters, and doesn't lay a finger or a claw on them. If the explanation was that these guys were souped up mystical martial arts masters, who learned like these secret scroll styles of martial arts that's one thing...but it comes off like Master Po's about to give Logan his first actual training in Kung Fu, which either ignores a whole lot of continuity or is a retcon. Honing skills because you've gotten rusty or lazy is one thing...but this is kind of being written like he never had any martial arts or kung fu training. Logan's shown before that he can identify between different styles, and seemd to have an intimate knowlege of the difference between the Hand and Si-fan ninjas (who were trained by Shang-chi's father).

This is why I'm taking the whole thing with a grain of salt. I love these villains, and I think that they have some staying power...but because of my issues above, it's keeping me from enjoying the story like some of you are, and like I wanted to coming in.

[B. Kuwanger]

I really didn't think Aaron made Wolverine look untalented at all. At the end that guy said he didn't have the skill to beat them (four really strong and skill guys at the same time), and it was exactly that, not that he didn't have any skill. In a lot of opinions Wolverine isn't a ninja Conan capable of beating anyone that steps to him with their fists, especially if they swarm him.

[pharoahe22]

I really didn't think Aaron made Wolverine look untalented at all. At the end that guy said he didn't have the skill to beat them (four really strong and skill guys at the same time), and it was exactly that, not that he didn't have any skill. In a lot of opinions Wolverine isn't a ninja Conan capable of beating anyone that steps to him with their fists, especially if they swarm him.

Yeah but in my opinion, he's certainly capable of dodging a few blows and/or getting a couple of shots in until he's completely overwhelmed. He took every shot and didn't lay a finger on any of them. Maybe it just came off that way to me because of what was said in the interview...because the interview basically said that Logan never learned any Kung fu because of his abilities, which is not true at all.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/pharoahe214/WolverinevsStacyx1.jpghttp://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a8/pharoahe214/WolverinevsStacyx2.jpg

It's like, how can you carry the "Best There Is" tagline if there are people so much better than you that you can't get a single shot in? It was different in the first battle with Mr. X because he was cheating and reading Logan's mind. And the handgun thing kind of threw me too. I've never seen Logan pull a gun on anyone when he'd much rather punch them in the face. Logan only uses guns on black ops missions. It seems like he writes Logan more like a tough guy and less like a trained samurai/ninja...but the samurai aspect is a big part of the character. It wasn't as noticeable in the first Wolverine book he wrote, because it wasn't necessary. In "Get Mystique", at the end, even though I loved the story, I was like "why in the world is Mystique giving Logan so much trouble?" but I kind of ignored it since I liked the arc so much. When you're doing a Wolveirne Kung Fu arc though, it's very noticeable. It seems to me like he played up BP's ablility in the SI BP arc, having him defeat this suped up Super Skrull fighter, but is playing down Logan's to the point where he's like more of a barroom brawler and less like a trained martial artist.

[creaky]

I think Kurt and Logan need to have a long drinking session lamenting their recent demotions of skill.

[DeadXMan]

none of those really are the same level as what the dragon squad are.

it was pretty much what would had if the Immortal weapons from Iron fist beat the crap out of Logan.

it was hard, fast and unrelenting. No banter , no monologues on how his days are over. just a straight up ass whopping, one that he has not had since wolverine vol 2 #10, when saber tooth beat him up and down the mountain side.

and I liked it, and I am a wolverine fan.

[LungerTony]

Just read this issue, and it was super awesome.
I didn't think it made Wolv look skillless....it was as the guy above said, as though the Immortal Weapons dropped an A-whooping on him.

[Wild Card13]

This has thoroughly convinced me that if Duane Swierczynski ever relinquishes his post as writer for "The Immortal Iron Fist," Jason Aaron should be next to take a crack at it.

[pariah-1972]

I have to agree with the poster Pharaoh Arron seems to be avoiding a lot of common knowledge stuff on Wolverine and i'm not sure why cause you can do most if not all of this story without ignoring the basic tenets of Wolverines history.

But i like this mostly for the crazy ass Segovia art.

[B. Kuwanger]

Yeah but in my opinion, he's certainly capable of dodging a few blows and/or getting a couple of shots in until he's completely overwhelmed. He took every shot and didn't lay a finger on any of them. Maybe it just came off that way to me because of what was said in the interview...because the interview basically said that Logan never learned any Kung fu because of his abilities, which is not true at all.

That's not how I read it.

JA: I'll be addressing this very question in issue #3, when Logan gets a martial arts refresher course from an aging Kung Fu master. The way the master sees it, Logan's healing factor has made him a lazy fighter. He absorbs too much punishment instead of trying to avoid it. So no, I wouldn't say Logan is in the same class with any of Marvel's elite martial artists. He should be a bit improved though by the end of “Manifest Destiny,” assuming he survives it, of course. Okay, spoiler alert, I'll go ahead and tell you for sure that he survives. Sorry to ruin the suspense.

And the problem with posting various scans is that none of them seem to contain the four fighters from this mini, so they're not really that relevant. Aaron isn't saying that none of that stuff ever happened.

It's like, how can you carry the "Best There Is" tagline if there are people so much better than you that you can't get a single shot in?
As far as I've read, Wolverine has been exploited over the decades mainly for his hunting and killing abilities, and not so much because he's a good fist fighter. Big difference between killing and fighting.

Assuming that he was even supposed to be the greatest fighter in the world. They were jumping him, not fighting one by one, and you can see that when he tried to hit one the others would hit him. He also had no idea what they could do while they were pretty familiar with his abilities. And also, being the best does not mean being unbeatable, whether it's one on one or four on one.

And the handgun thing kind of threw me too. I've never seen Logan pull a gun on anyone when he'd much rather punch them in the face. Logan only uses guns on black ops missions. It seems like he writes Logan more like a tough guy and less like a trained samurai/ninja...but the samurai aspect is a big part of the character.
A skilled fighter uses whatever is most efficient. If you're implying the gun is out of character, consider the circumstances.

[pharoahe22]

I think Kurt and Logan need to have a long drinking session lamenting their recent demotions of skill.

Indeed. Like I said, I have no problem with the beating. If these guys are as tough as the Immortal Weapons, I don't know of anyone outside of the planet smashers that wouldn't have taken a horrible beating. My biggest pet peeve with anyone who writes Wolverine is dumbing down his abilities. I'll wait to see how the rest of it is written, but I'm a little weary about it based on the interview and from what I've seen so far. The Master Po thing is what I'm worried about. I just don't want any retcons where Master Po trains Logan in kung fu for the first time or anything ridiculous like that. Aaron did say that Logan would be a better fighter after this story, but I don't want him to screw Wolverine's continuity in the meantime.

[Omega Alpha]

Interesting issue, Aaron writes a pretty good Logan.

Oh, and as for skill or not: Logan was absurdly overpowered there, skilled or not, he would have had his ass kicked without going fully prepared for it.

[DeadXMan]

there Kung-fu that we see in Bruce lee Movies which is realistic fighting

this is the over kind of kung fu
the kind we see in house of flying daggers,CTHD, big trouble in little china, Hero, and as I mentioned, Iron Fist.
that's the kung fu we we see here and that the kind of kung fu logan has no skills in.

BTW Danny Rand has kicked wolvrine's ass, and CC wrote it.

[pharoahe22]

just to respond to some of your points B.K. I'd quote you but Iphone is acting stupid lol:

When it comes to the gun thing, I see what you're saying, but it's pretty out of character for him to be carrying a gun in the first place, unless he had just won it in the card game and just had it on his person. He's not one to carry a gun around...he doesn't need it.

As far as the interview, it starts out by saying "if you had an adamantium skeleton and healing factor, would you bother to learn Kung fu?". Then he says later in the interview that Wolverine shouldn't be considered among the best fighters in the MU. Both of those statements are ridiculous. If you knew nothing about Wolverine and never read a comic with him in it, you could look him up on wiki. The first thing it says in the skills and abilities section is that he's a master of nearly every form of armed and unarmed combat known to man...I'd think that would include Kung fu. The it says he has sufficient skills to defeat Shang chi and Cap, both of whom are considered to be top 10. He's also defeated and disarmed Deadpool within the last 6 months or so. That's 3 top notch fighters. That's why I have a problem with that. His skill can't have diminished that much in that small a time frame. That doesn't make sense.

As for the mystic warriors, I think they're cool. I'd love to see them as reoccuring villains. I just wanted Aaron to write him based on what has been shown. Even if he's gotten a bit careless and is taking hits instead of dodging them, he's still had more training then just about every fighter in the Mu, and he should be written as such. I'm still gonna pick the rest of the series up...I'm just hoping for no retcons.

[pharoahe22]

there Kung-fu that we see in Bruce lee Movies which is realistic fighting

this is the over kind of kung fu
the kind we see in house of flying daggers,CTHD, big trouble in little china, Hero, and as I mentioned, Iron Fist.
that's the kung fu we we see here and that the kind of kung fu logan has no skills in.

BTW Danny Rand has kicked wolvrine's ass, and CC wrote it.

Nah...Danny was actually fighting off the whole X-men team in that book, but no one was definitively defeated or taken out. Besides that, in the Wolverine/Iron Fist mini, Wolverine defeated a bearer of the Iron Fist who defeated Danny and stole his power...check it out. Wolverine also killed Danny in the What If Enemy of the State book. I know that book is not cannon, but still. Wolverine has the ability to beat Danny, though I now think that Danny has more technique due to the recent Book of the Iron Fist upgrades.

[DeadXMan]

What if dose not count for continuity

and Danny got to mack on all the X-women while Logan was force to play janitor.

Danny won:tongue:

[pharoahe22]

What if dose not count for continuity

and Danny got to mack on all the X-women while Logan was force to play janitor.

Danny won:tongue:

Lol I said it didn't count but I also gave you an example of Wolverine defeating a villain who beat Danny. That's neither here nor there though... I'm just hoping next issue doesn't bring any type of retcon as far as Wolvie's fighting ability is concerned. I love the villains though.

[DeadXMan]

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