"Anti-Batmen" .-- just how many are there?

[Red_Knight]

Hey everyone,

not counting Morrison's "Three Ghosts", I was wondering how many "Anti-Batmen" -- enemies orginally conceived to be Batman's evil mirror image -- we've seen in the history of the character. I can think of


The Wrath
Prometheus
Hush


I'm almost certain there are/were more, though. One might count Bane and Manbat, too...

Any ideas, comments, etc?

[Splatt]

Bizzaro Batman?

[Redem]

owlman would be one thought they don't really fight each other a lot

[davepaton]

Cat-man (especially with his 'catarang')

[dreyga2000]

Though they're not evil, the Club of Heroes are most certainly Batman Mirrors.

Killer Moth
Catwoman
Catman

[foxley]

Killer Moth, the original anti-Batman.

[Laurence]

Uh, the second Wrath.

[Redem]

I think you could make a spectrum of Anti-batmen

[Red_Knight]

I think you could make a spectrum of Anti-batmen

A what now?

[Redem]

A what now?

Well making a classification of the different style of anti-batmen

[foxley]

You could probably stretch the definition to include the Jason Todd version of Red Hood (although he's really more of an anti-Nightwing).

And Az-Bats had become one by the end of his reign; a gun-weilding murderous vigilante who dod not care for the lives of innocents.

[hunter_peterson]

The Black Skull
Hush
Killer Moth
Wrath
Prometheus
Catman

Green Arrow was a archery-themed copy, in the beginning, but isn't any more.

As far as foils go, the Joker is almost an exactly anti-Batman.

[DarKye]

Depends on what qualifies to make him an anti-Batman. Most of Batman's classic rogues work because they directly mirror certain traits.

The Joker is chaotic while Batman seeks control, the Penguin is an evil aristocrat where Bruce Wayne is a good one. Scarecrow uses fear as a tool for evil, Batman uses it to keep criminals in line. Etc etc.

I guess the most "pure" anti-Batmen would be Wrath and Owlman.

[Slackjaws_ate_my_brain]

The extra feature on "Gotham Knight" makes a good point about various Bat-villians that work well as "evil mirror versions" of an aspect of the character :

- Deadshot (completely dependant on "the gun", while Bruce is repulsed by them)
- Scarecrow (Using Fear for evil, while Bats uses fear for good)
- The Joker (Completely insane, while Bats is the ultimate caculating Detective)
- The Penguin (Revels in being Rich and abusing his wealth, while Bruce uses his wealth as a "means to an end")
- Ras Al Ghul (A perfect physical specimen, with wealth and power, that views Mankind as "the problem", while Bruce views the majority of people as good and victims to the minority)

[Retro315]

Catman ... Deadshot ... Deathstroke ... Prometheus ... The Wrath ... (luckily a few of these guys have evolved past that point by a lot).

Owlman, yeah. Definitely. He's LITERALLY the Anti-Batman ... in that he's Bruce Wayne, of the Anti-Matter Dimension.

Hush ... yeah. He's more the "Reverse-Bruce Wayne" but it counts. How about Man-Bat? Azrael as Batman-gone-wrong? Batzarro? Two-Face with the duality? Joker with comedy vs. tragedy? Superman as optimist vs. cynic?

God there's a lot of them.

Deadshot is the one that always comes to mind for me ... Floyd Llawton is Bruce Wayne, just without the imagination. They have the same natural gifts, but Bats is an overachiever ... Deadshot's a slacker. Bats is good at charm but it's a facade, Deadshot's natural charm gets in the way of business.

They're both rich playboys ... oh, I guess Bats uses protection ... Deadshot forgets sometimes and ends up with daughters.

Really ... it's a matter of hard-worker versus slacker and the repercussions involved. Deadshot could be Batman if he had the drive, but he's content just to slide by under the radar with natural talent for gunplay and minimum amounts of daily physical fitness. Which, speaks to me if it doesn't anyone else.

Batman would be a hell of an assassin ...

[Libaax]

Damn !! now i want a great Elseworld with Batman THE Assassin !!

[SlightlyMad]

Owlman, yeah. Definitely. He's LITERALLY the Anti-Batman ... in that he's Bruce Wayne, of the Anti-Matter Dimension.


Actually he's Thomas Wayne Jr. Bruce was his brother who was shot along with his mother. Thomas Sr. Is the Commisioner, which if all things are opposite, does lend credence to Batman R.I.P.

[Red_Knight]

Interesting turnout so far.

Looking over the names dropped in this thread, I think we can safely say that the "evil twins" Batman has faced can be divided into 3 major categories:

First, we have the "Anti-Batmen", villains who can match Bats physically and, in some cases, mentally, but lack his moral compass. I'd place characters like Prometheus, The Wrath(s), or Bane in this category.

Then, we have the "Anti-Bruces". That category could get crowded pretty quickly if any scumbag with money was allowed in. I think the list needs to be limited to characters who have more in common with Bruce Wayne than a large pocket book. With that in mind, the top name in this category would have to be Roman Sionis a.k.a. Black Mask; raised as part of Gotham's elite and heir to a large fortune. AFAIK, Bruce and he actually knew each other when they were kids. To me, Sionis is the perfect example of what Bruce might've become without his parents' positive influence. (Too bad this side of the character was downplayed in favor of making him a Red Skull-knock-off...) Lex Luthor would qualify, too, IMO.

The third and final category looks to be the smallest. That's where I'd place actual "evil twins"; -- villains who serve as twisted mirrors to both Batman and Bruce Wayne. Those are the characters that I find myself most interested in, but unless I'm forgetting someone, I don't think it's been achieved very often. I know I can't come up with a laundry list of battle-savvy costumed millionaires. The original Killer Moth would qualify, of course, as would Owlman (though he's not part of the regular continuity.) It seems to me that Tommy Elliot/Hush was originally conceived to play such a role. IMO, his recent appearances have made him more of an "Anti-Bruce", though. He doesn't seem to be particularly attached to the "Hush"-identity, and his battle skills have been downplayed a lot. IIRC, he relies almost completely on trickery and his guns in HOH. A pity, really. I thought Hush really could have been the first complete "evil twin" Batman has had. Maybe one will come along yet.

Comments? Thoughts?

[Pól Rua]

Matt Wagner's Hunter Rose/Grendel.

[TROUBLEZ]

Actually he's Thomas Wayne Jr. Bruce was his brother who was shot along with his mother. Thomas Sr. Is the Commisioner, which if all things are opposite, does lend credence to Batman R.I.P.

I never thought of that. That actually makes RIP sound a whole lot better.

[Retro315]

Anti-Batmen & Anti-Bruces I think I'd lump them together. Slight separation between his secret identity and his public persona or not ... Batman & Bruce Wayne are the same guy ultimately. Any Anti-Batman would have to meet certain criteria ... but they don't have to match perfectly. Just enough to put up a challenge.

1. Millionaire (or criminal equivalent, such as vast criminal networks, resources).
- Bane, who seemingly got enough money to finance a criminal empire.
- Black Mask, a business leader who went down the super-criminal path.
- Catman, world famous, but squandered most of his money.
- Deadshot, who is a high-end assassin and well known, makes good money.
- Deathstroke, a top member of the Society, and criminal mastermind.
- Hush, who grew up down the street from Bruce Wayne to wealth.
- Joker, who has in his own words, had thrown away enough money in his day.
- Killer Moth, millionaire who made his own suit for crime.
- Lex Luthor, another business owner, slight rival of Wayne Industries.
- Ra's al Ghul ... no explanation needed here.

2. Ninja-Like (adept in the shadows and having incredible agility & strength).
- Bane, not really ninja-like, but he's got tons more strength, and close agility.
- Catman, who lived in the wild, and ended up with cat-like agility.
- Deadshot, who has natural abilities close, but isn't as hardcore and maxed out.
- Deathstroke, almost on par with Batman.
- Joker, barely qualifies, but with his track runner build, is a faster runner.
- Prometheus, designed from the ground up to be able to fight with Batman.
- Ra's al Ghul ... Lazarus keeps him fresh, and has literal ninja training.
- Red Hood, trained by Batman ... but not really "evil" per se.
- Two-Face ... Batman made the mistake of training him himself.
- Wrath, designed as an enemy on Batman's level, kind of.

3. Showboat (using showmanship as part of their arsenal). I'm not saying guys like Lex or Hush or Ra's don't have style, but they prefer their actions to be behind the scenes most of the time.
- Catman, uses the theme of cats, like bats.
- Deadshot, his theme is based on his natural talent with guns.
- Deathstroke, apart from taunts, gloating and such? With a costume like that ...
- Joker, uses the clown theme to great gain.
- Prometheus, with that outlandish purple get-up.
- Wrath, uses a purposely designed "anti-Batman" theme.

4. Genius (the cunning to go toe to toe with the world's greatest detective).
- Bane, is a criminal genius, and is shrewd enough to keep up.
- Deathstroke, is a criminal genius, and adept at mind-games.
- Hush, is a doctor, and good at planning and mind-games.
- Joker, is the literal personification of criminal genius.
- Lex Luthor, genius inventor and weapons designer. Robotics. Planner.
- Prometheus, who has technology that helps him learn things.
- Ra's al Ghul, experience and mind-games, mysterious.

5. Resolve (this is where most fall out of their goal of being better than Batman). Once Bane would've fallen into this category, but he definitely went through some rock-bottom crippling doubt at one point. Then again, you could argue Batman is doing that right now as well ...
- Catman, his love of lions, revenge, and grim seriousness are impressive.
- Deathstroke, he never quits. Near-immortality probably helps.
- Hush, really, REALLY seems to hate Bruce Wayne.
- Ra's al Ghul, he never quits. Immortality probably helps.

The characters who have three or more, I'd say fall into "Anti-Batman" territory. Bane, Catman, Deadshot, Deathstroke, Hush, Joker, Lex Luthor, Prometheus, Ra's al Ghul, the Wrath.

I'm sure someone can do a more accurate job if they really want to.

Doppelgangers - nothing new to super-heroes there ... there's Bizarro ... Venom ... Doppelganger! I suppose Doppelgangers are counted in a whole other category of "ANTI-BATMEN" because they're literally that. And as such there's no arguing it or categorizing.

Owlman (thanks for the quick info about him being the older brother), Batzarro, any Multiverse Batman, all belong to Doppelganger sub-category. I'm not sure how I'd qualify the guy that's Half-Batman, Half-Superman ...

[nepenthes]

thanks Retro and Red Knight, interesting to look at it that way