HSDK manga discussion thread

[Siriel]

...Are you tellling us we're not even allowed to aknowledge the existance of these sites? o_O

Of course not, that would be ridiculous.

Just, y'know, don't tell people "Hey, you can read X and Y at Z!". Because it kinda goes against the spirit of the "No linking" policy. It won't lead to trouble from me beside editing the post, but it could lead to people going "Well, if we can tell them where to go, what's the difference between that and linking?".

Beside, think of it this way: It's so ridiculously easy to find these sites nowadays...do people who need to ask how to get there really deserve an answer?

[Robotech Master]

...Are you tellling us we're not even allowed to aknowledge the existance of these sites? o_O

You're not allowed to assist anyone in finding them. That includes telling them what to type into a search engine. Your only response to a question directly asking for a location for scans can pretty much be "go look for it."

[Ghost]

Of course not, that would be ridiculous.

Just, y'know, don't tell people "Hey, you can read X and Y at Z!". Because it kinda goes against the spirit of the "No linking" policy. It won't lead to trouble from me beside editing the post, but it could lead to people going "Well, if we can tell them where to go, what's the difference between that and linking?".

Please note that I went out of my way to not actually mention any sites.


Beside, think of it this way: It's so ridiculously easy to find these sites nowadays...do people who need to ask how to get there really deserve an answer?

Hence why my reply basically amounted to: Learn to use teh internet!

I dunno, maybe I should try to be more sarcastic next time?


You're not allowed to assist anyone in finding them. That includes telling them what to type into a search engine. Your only response to a question directly asking for a location for scans can pretty much be "go look for it."

Can I at least let them know that search engines do, in fact, exist?

[master of read]

Jesus, is that still going on? When I dropped the manga, which was ages ago, those two were basically ready to start dating at any moment and I found it incredibly annoying how it just kept stalling. ><



What can I say? The way he worded it just sounded so risque I couldn't help myself.



...Are you tellling us we're not even allowed to aknowledge the existance of these sites? o_O

well, before, miu only really thought of ken as a friend or in her words "a dog they took in" but after living with him alone for a while, she's beginning to see him more as a romantic interest.

[Robotech Master]

Can I at least let them know that search engines do, in fact, exist?

That's included in "go look for it," yes.

If they don't know that search engines exist, then you must next instruct them to turn their internet in.

[penguin-in-leather-jacket]

One thought. So far as I can find, the HSDK manga does not have an English licensee. Viz would be the publisher if they were going to import it, but so far as can be seen, they are not interested in doing so.

Just an observation.

And, chapter 447's slogan should be, "It's not porn because we say so!"

[Overhazard]

One thought. So far as I can find, the HSDK manga does not have an English licensee. Viz would be the publisher if they were going to import it, but so far as can be seen, they are not interested in doing so.

Just an observation.

And, chapter 447's slogan should be, "It's not porn because we say so!"

I know right? Seems like Miu is half naked or in a provocative pose in every arc she's in. Shigure is too, but its taken further with her.

[blackpariah]

*facepalms* Sorry about that, guys. I make it a point to buy all the manga I'm interested in, so as to not support those kinds of sites. I really was looking for the site with the best quality, but nevertheless I really should've known better.

[Holy Spirit]

*facepalms* Sorry about that, guys. I make it a point to buy all the manga I'm interested in, so as to not support those kinds of sites. I really was looking for the site with the best quality, but nevertheless I really should've known better.
Don't worry about it. It's not a big deal.

It's all good.:biggrin:

[Jmacq1]

All right...the Kenichi stuff in the latest chapter was pretty much exactly what I expected (though I am mildly intrigued by the subtle implication that Miu actually fought and beat Renka for Kenichi's affections off-panel).

Miu's arc...

I'm now perplexed and intrigued. Elaborate setup/test by Jenazad, or did Hongo get to the One Shadow and let him know that Jenazad had absconded with his daughter, resulting in the One Shadow causing said crash and leaving Jenazad to a thus-far unknown fate?

(I have a theory that this has all been an elaborate setup by Momma Kushinada to take Silcardo Jenazad off the board by having the One Shadow obliterate him, but that remains to be seen)

[sun tzu]

re: Nijima:
:eek:

[Dark Soul # 7]

Nijima is a good alien friend.

[Holy Spirit]

All right...the Kenichi stuff in the latest chapter was pretty much exactly what I expected (though I am mildly intrigued by the subtle implication that Miu actually fought and beat Renka for Kenichi's affections off-panel).

Miu's arc...

I'm now perplexed and intrigued. Elaborate setup/test by Jenazad, or did Hongo get to the One Shadow and let him know that Jenazad had absconded with his daughter, resulting in the One Shadow causing said crash and leaving Jenazad to a thus-far unknown fate?
I'm happy the god fist isn't taking this lying down.

God fist: "You wanna play hide and seek? Fine. I'm calling Miu's daddy."

(I have a theory that this has all been an elaborate setup by Momma Kushinada to take Silcardo Jenazad off the board by having the One Shadow obliterate him, but that remains to be seen)
What makes you say that?

[wildclaw]

Latest chapter is out, a new History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi OVA has been green-lighted.

They finally revealed the face of Demon Fist. He looks way too young to be the same guy that fought Elder ages ago. I noticed that his skin from the neck down, doesn't match that of his face, it looks so wierd. I think he might either be wearing a mask like from mission impossible, or maybe, just maybe he is possessing that body Orochimaru style.

This storyline looks like it will be very exciting now that we see how he his going to mold Miu right under her nose.

[penguin-in-leather-jacket]

He also could be a master of anti-aging techniques like Kushinada Mikumo, who is supposedly at least 80.

[Jmacq1]

What makes you say that?

Well, the One Shadow, Nine Fists seem to have a subtle battle for dominance going on amongst them, each trying to prove their style "superior" and get their disciple "promoted."

It basically boils down to "What does Kushinada gain by pointing Jenazad at Miu?" On the surface, the answer is "nothing." Kushinada doesn't seem to have any particular loyalty or affection to Jenazad (or any of the others save perhaps the One Shadow). But if you look deeper, Jenazad interfering with Miu could set up a chain of events that gets Jenazad, who has been presented as one of the most skilled/powerful of the Nine Fists (along with Kushinada) "taken off the board" so to speak. If the idea is a struggle for dominance, she just might be using her "skill" at manipulation to stack the deck in her favor.

But that remains to be seen, as it turns out the idea of "elaborate set-up by Jenazad" was the right answer.

As for Jenazad's age...yeah, there'll need to be some explanation there, especially with his father and little sister around, though it's worth noting that if he wears a mask a good deal of the time, the skin of his face wouldn't be as weathered as the rest of him (particularly his hands, which are probably a mass of callus like many experienced martial artists' are).

[nervmeister]

He also could be a master of anti-aging techniques like Kushinada Mikumo, who is supposedly at least 80.I think you may have nailed it.

[Holy Spirit]

Well, the One Shadow, Nine Fists seem to have a subtle battle for dominance going on amongst them, each trying to prove their style "superior" and get their disciple "promoted."

It basically boils down to "What does Kushinada gain by pointing Jenazad at Miu?" On the surface, the answer is "nothing." Kushinada doesn't seem to have any particular loyalty or affection to Jenazad (or any of the others save perhaps the One Shadow). But if you look deeper, Jenazad interfering with Miu could set up a chain of events that gets Jenazad, who has been presented as one of the most skilled/powerful of the Nine Fists (along with Kushinada) "taken off the board" so to speak. If the idea is a struggle for dominance, she just might be using her "skill" at manipulation to stack the deck in her favor.
Ah... cool theory. I like it.

But that remains to be seen, as it turns out the idea of "elaborate set-up by Jenazad" was the right answer.

As for Jenazad's age...yeah, there'll need to be some explanation there, especially with his father and little sister around, though it's worth noting that if he wears a mask a good deal of the time, the skin of his face wouldn't be as weathered as the rest of him (particularly his hands, which are probably a mass of callus like many experienced martial artists' are).
I'm really curious about the dark direction Miu's character is heading in..... I haven't been this interested in a while.

[Eternal Torment]

Or Pencak Silat makes your skin really old.

[Holy Spirit]

Or Pencak Silat makes your skin really old.
I don't know... the way he calls grown men who look older than him "youngsters".... implies he's pretty old himself.

[Eternal Torment]

I don't know... the way he calls grown men who look older than him "youngsters".... implies he's pretty old himself.

Maybe he considers them to be younger because they exercise good skin care and thus look less shriveled.

Jenazad doesn't need Jergens! All he needs is fruit!

[nervmeister]

Dick move, Jenazad. :mad:

[Holy Spirit]

I'm feeling Miu's new outfit..... cool that she's able to pick up on the language so fast after just one week.

[nervmeister]

I'm feeling Miu's new outfit..... cool that she's able to pick up on the language so fast after just one week.
Gibbering rage allows one to bridge the language barrier. :tongue:

[FistofIron]

New chapter had me in stitches.

[Jmacq1]

Heh...why do I get the feeling Kenichi's pseudo-harem is about to gain another member?

Of course, what would be interesting at this juncture is if they introduced a new romantic interest that Kenichi actually reciprocated some degree of interest in beyond "We can be friends!"

Not that I think it'll happen (he's too obsessed with Miu) but it'd certainly be another monkeywrench in the Miu/Kenichi relationship that looked to be going a little too smoothly for a short while there.

[FistofIron]

Really enjoying this arc so far.

[Dark Soul # 7]

They found Miu. Now to see if she can be saved. And Hongou appears again.

I'm liking the inept mercenary John-san.

I wonder what part of the story the coming OVA will cover.

[Holy Spirit]

Looks like I may finally get to see who is more powerful between Kenichi and Miu.






Also.... "He already killed someone before he even touched the ground..." how awesome is that intro?

[nervmeister]

Okay. Maskless, babyfaced Jenazad somehow just became more creepy than with the mask on. :tongue:

[Jmacq1]

They found Miu. Now to see if she can be saved. And Hongou appears again.

I'm liking the inept mercenary John-san.

I wonder what part of the story the coming OVA will cover.

I'm betting the OVA goes with the D of D Tournament arc.


Looks like I may finally get to see who is more powerful between Kenichi and Miu.

If you don't already know who's more powerful between Kenichi and Miu, I don't think you've been reading very closely. Miu's always been more powerful, and still is. The day she's not is the day the Manga ends.

But if you require a Kenichi vs. Miu fight to "know for sure" I highly doubt you're going to be getting it in these coming chapters, because there's no way Kenichi will genuinely fight Miu "all out."

I will grant, however, that Kenichi can probably take more punishment than her. He's good at that.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I'm betting the OVA goes with the D of D Tournament arc.While that would be a dream come true, it's my overall favourite arc and the Kenichi/Shou Kanon fight is one of my all time favourite manga battles ever, I don't think a single OVA would be enough to cover it properly.

[Holy Spirit]

If you don't already know who's more powerful between Kenichi and Miu, I don't think you've been reading very closely. Miu's always been more powerful, and still is. The day she's not is the day the Manga ends.
Well.. as I've said, I'm not sure. I've been reading it and I can't tell. Kenichi seems more powerful overall but Miu is faster and more skilled so...... yeah. I'd like to see something other than sparing.

But if you require a Kenichi vs. Miu fight to "know for sure" I highly doubt you're going to be getting it in these coming chapters, because there's no way Kenichi will genuinely fight Miu "all out."
Yeah.... *sigh*.

I will grant, however, that Kenichi can probably take more punishment than her. He's good at that.
Meh... I'll take it. :cool:

[penguin-in-leather-jacket]

i believe that Kenichi has greater strength and endurance, much greater hitting power, and more ability to soak punishment; while Miu is considerably faster and more agile, and is probably somewhat farther along in pure technical skill. but here's the thing: that advantage can't be much, because at the beginning of this Tidat arc Sakaki directly stated Miu was still disciple-level, and I seem to remember Miu called herself disciple-level once, a long time ago.

There is no gap of leagues between them; they are just very different fighters. Kenichi has also been called a slow starter on numerous occasions, which would seem to widen the gap.

$0.02

[Jmacq1]

While that would be a dream come true, it's my overall favourite arc and the Kenichi/Shou Kanon fight is one of my all time favourite manga battles ever, I don't think a single OVA would be enough to cover it properly.

Depends on how long the OVA is. OVAs can be more than just a two-hour movie, after all. It just seems to me that D of D is the only really "self contained" arc since the Ragnarok arc. Unless they're just doing a little one-off that could be anything from an original story to a bunch of random filler from the Manga rolled together.


Well.. as I've said, I'm not sure. I've been reading it and I can't tell. Kenichi seems more powerful overall but Miu is faster and more skilled so...... yeah. I'd like to see something other than sparing.

It depends on your use of the word "powerful." There's never been any doubt that Miu is, overall, superior to Kenichi. The only reason anyone can even think that Kenichi is remotely close to being her equal is simply because Miu isn't the main character and therefore hasn't fought people on her level very often (or hasn't gotten the opportunity to show off as much).

If you mean raw physical strength, there might be some room for debate, as with physical toughness (Miu's never really had to take the kind of beatings Kenichi has on-panel). But when it comes to "overall" I don't think the Manga has given any indication whatsoever that Kenichi has genuinely "caught up" with Miu.

As I said, the day he catches up is probably the day the Manga pretty much ends. The central driving point of their relationship is that he's trying to (physically) protect someone that's better able to protect themselves than he is. Reversing that dynamic would lead to a huge shift in their relationship (though it also wouldn't discount the possibility of Miu training harder to surpass him once again).

Anyway...latest chapter!

A little somethin' somethin' brewing with the Princess and Hongo?

I confess I'm still a little worried that either Sakaki or Hongo isn't gonna walk away from their seemingly-inevitable battle with Jenazad. Unless Hayato shows up for a last-minute rescue/asskicking.

[Pong]

Lately, I'm kinda tired with this series. It feels to me like the plot lost momentum and direction.

[The Drunkard Kid]

I confess I'm still a little worried that either Sakaki or Hongo isn't gonna walk away from their seemingly-inevitable battle with Jenazad. Unless Hayato shows up for a last-minute rescue/asskicking.Prediction:

While they're fighting Jenazad, Miu is about to land a killing blow on Kenichi but freezes, has a mental freak-out for a page and a half where she pushes through the brainwashing, and she and a relieved Kenichi are just about to kiss right as Jenazad is about to put his fist through Sakaki's trachea.

Cue Hayato bursting through the wall right next to Jenazad, Kool-Aid style, trampling him in passing and throwing the Garyuu-X mask so that it intercepts the kiss.

Buh-duh.


EDIT: And Jonothan? The One Shadow Nine Fists, trying to help save his daughter and stop Jenazad from tearing apart Yami for fun. He doesn't look like that because of any special tech or anything, that's just his natural body type. All the flashbacks and everything were just Hayato and the others projecting their expectations onto him.

Also, even if Miu is calling herself Disciple Class, that doesn't necessarily mean that she doesn't have a huge advantage over Kenichi, considering that Kenichi himself could be considered Disciple Class since fairly early in the manga and the current Disciple Class Kenichi would stomp all over early Kenichi. Right now, Miu seems to have more skill, significantly more speed (running on walls and the like), and comparable striking power (going by how she just smacked him through a wall) and is way more familiar with his fighting style than he seems to be with her's. Kenichi can probably take a punch better, but I can't really remember anyone that wasn't Master Class landing a hit on a combat ready Miu at all, so I can't really guarantee that, either (Loki's henchgirl and maybe Boris or one of his henchman did it, but those were suckerpunches IIRC, and didn't seem to do more than stun Miu for a second).

[Jmacq1]

Prediction:

While they're fighting Jenazad, Miu is about to land a killing blow on Kenichi but freezes, has a mental freak-out for a page and a half where she pushes through the brainwashing, and she and a relieved Kenichi are just about to kiss right as Jenazad is about to put his fist through Sakaki's trachea.

Cue Hayato bursting through the wall right next to Jenazad, Kool-Aid style, trampling him in passing and throwing the Garyuu-X mask so that it intercepts the kiss.

Buh-duh.


Oy, talk about mood whiplash.


Lately, I'm kinda tired with this series. It feels to me like the plot lost momentum and direction.

I felt this way for a short while, but I think it's picked up with the Jenazad arc. It's been an interesting departure from the formula, plus getting the full backstory on Hongo and Sakaki was pretty cool, IMO. It's been a little less epic than the D of D arcs and the "All the masters storm the castle" scenarios, but the overall plot-arc of "opposing Yami" is still relatively intact.

[Holy Spirit]

It depends on your use of the word "powerful." There's never been any doubt that Miu is, overall, superior to Kenichi. The only reason anyone can even think that Kenichi is remotely close to being her equal is simply because Miu isn't the main character and therefore hasn't fought people on her level very often (or hasn't gotten the opportunity to show off as much).

If you mean raw physical strength, there might be some room for debate, as with physical toughness (Miu's never really had to take the kind of beatings Kenichi has on-panel). But when it comes to "overall" I don't think the Manga has given any indication whatsoever that Kenichi has genuinely "caught up" with Miu.
When I say "more powerful overall" I mean I look at the stats and see who comes out on top. It doesn't mean that the more powerful person will win exactly.... but they come off as more powerful. Like Martain Manhunter vs Flash.

Strength: Kenichi

Speed: Miu

Skill: Miu

Durability/Soak: Kenichi

Stamina: Kenichi

So I look at that and go... Kenichi wins in 3 out of 5 stats.... does Miu have enough of an advantage in the other two to overcome the difference? I'm....... not sure so... that's where I'm at right now. Doesn't help that Kenichi won't fight her properly either.

As I said, the day he catches up is probably the day the Manga pretty much ends. The central driving point of their relationship is that he's trying to (physically) protect someone that's better able to protect themselves than he is. Reversing that dynamic would lead to a huge shift in their relationship (though it also wouldn't discount the possibility of Miu training harder to surpass him once again).
Interesting. I just took that as he's the guy and a guy is suppose to protect his girl. No matter what.

I would say it has more to do with Kenichi being.... Kenichi than how strong she is. What I mean is.... it's not so much about him being stronger than Miu as much as it's about being stronger than everybody else. (Ie: anyone that can hurt Miu.)


Similar to his thing with not hitting a girl. How strong the girl is isn't really important... she could be weaker, equal or superior and he just won't... do it. Resorting to holds and throws or whatever.

Likewise with Miu.... unless she were the single strongest person on earth(and perhaps even then) he would still feel this overwelming urge to protect her... just cause she's his chick. Or to put it another way.... if he were already stronger than Miu by leaps and bounds and the strongest non-master in the world would he stop training because he's stronger? I... don't see it. Because master "what's-his-face" could be lurking around a corner to snatch her up! So he's got to get stronger.... and frankly I don't think he would stop until he is literally the strongest man on earth and nobody anywhere could ever do anything to his Miu.... at least not while he's around.

I suppose if there is some sort of point to this mess I'm typing it would be this...... Kenichi being stronger than Miu wouldn't reverse the dynamic of their relationship because he was never really competing with her in the first place. Rather, he is competing with the people that can hurt her... the world if you will, and there is no real end to that. Well... besides being the strongest.

I always felt that's what the author is trying to get at.... especailly with the Elder's "YOU can't have her until you beat ME!!!" stuff. Coming from a guy who just so happens to be the Whitebeard of his world...... yeah.



Also, as a side note I would just like to say that this one of the things I like about Kenichi. So... just putting that out there. :smile: (I apologize in advance if this is a little.... long winded.)

I confess I'm still a little worried that either Sakaki or Hongo isn't gonna walk away from their seemingly-inevitable battle with Jenazad. Unless Hayato shows up for a last-minute rescue/asskicking.
I think Sakaki's character shield is just too strong. Look at Apachai.

Hongo.... yeah, not so much.

[Jmacq1]

When I say "more powerful overall" I mean I look at the stats and see who comes out on top. It doesn't mean that the more powerful person will win exactly.... but they come off as more powerful. Like Martain Manhunter vs Flash.

Strength: Kenichi

Speed: Miu

Skill: Miu

Durability/Soak: Kenichi

Stamina: Kenichi

So I look at that and go... Kenichi wins in 3 out of 5 stats.... does Miu have enough of an advantage in the other two to overcome the difference? I'm....... not sure so... that's where I'm at right now. Doesn't help that Kenichi won't fight her properly either.


Here's the thing though...how are you so certain that Miu doesn't surpass Kenichi in Durability, Stamina and Strength? It's not like there are "official numbers" for this sort of thing. The point I was making with the "not being the main character" bit earlier is that we haven't really seen her be tested in those areas, but that doesn't mean she's weak in them. Mainly because so few non-Master characters are even able to lay a finger on her, which again speaks to a level of skill and speed that very well may be so far beyond Kenichi that any of his advantages are moot. At the very least I would say the circumstantial evidence points to Stamina that would be at least equal if not superior to Kenichi.

Remember, this is the little girl that's had one-on-one training with Hayato Furinji for most of her life, and is basically born to be a "martial arts prodigy." I think it would be a disservice to the Manga as a whole for Kenichi to catch up with a lifetime of training with the world's most powerful martial artist and a supposedly nigh-immeasurable natural talent just by "trying really hard" for what's amounted to less than two years (in-universe time). Yes, the Manga is supposed to give us the message that hard work can supplant natural talent, but Miu, at least in theory, has both.

[Holy Spirit]

Here's the thing though...how are you so certain that Miu doesn't surpass Kenichi in Durability, Stamina and Strength? It's not like there are "official numbers" for this sort of thing. The point I was making with the "not being the main character" bit earlier is that we haven't really seen her be tested in those areas, but that doesn't mean she's weak in them. Mainly because so few non-Master characters are even able to lay a finger on her, which again speaks to a level of skill and speed that very well may be so far beyond Kenichi that any of his advantages are moot. At the very least I would say the circumstantial evidence points to Stamina that would be at least equal if not superior to Kenichi.

Remember, this is the little girl that's had one-on-one training with Hayato Furinji for most of her life, and is basically born to be a "martial arts prodigy." I think it would be a disservice to the Manga as a whole for Kenichi to catch up with a lifetime of training with the world's most powerful martial artist and a supposedly nigh-immeasurable natural talent just by "trying really hard" for what's amounted to less than two years (in-universe time). Yes, the Manga is supposed to give us the message that hard work can supplant natural talent, but Miu, at least in theory, has both.
You raise a good point.

See... Miu.... I know she's trained with her grandpa and all but I don't know if it's actually been for all her life..... or even most of her life. She was a shrimp when she was travelling the world with him and now she's doing house work and stuff. What happened in between? What did she learn? When did the training stop? Aside from sparring with Kenichi I've never just seen her train on her own.... ever. I've seen masters train but not her. So in general.... given the lack of info on her I just assume she's better than him only in the stuff she's actually shown to be better than him in. Speed, Skill, balance, flexabilty, agility ect.

It's not Miu's fault that she's so quick and skilled that she never gets touched... but none the less it works against her when you try to compare their durabilty and soak.

So... she beats him in sparring.... and that showcases her advantages over him. That's how we know she's better than him in speed and skill. We never get to see if he can eventually wear her down because it never gets serious enough for that... she flips him and it's like "Good try Kenichi, better luck next time!". She doesn't want to hurt him badly so we never see if she can get past his durability/soak and the match doesn't last long enough for him to test her stamina.


I guess what I'm saying is.... the sparring plays to Miu's strengths and not to his and the sparring is basically all we have for a comparison between her and Kenichi. Well... Shou. But that doesn't tell us much either.

I guess you could assume that she's better than him at everything because of the Elder and the sparring.... which could be true but.... I'd rather see it.

Just my take on it. Which is why I wanna see some non-sparring stuff between them to know for sure. Plus, even if he loses it will at least tell me how close he is to Miu. Because right now... I can't even tell if he's stronger, weaker or on equal footing with her if the two really got into it.

[The Drunkard Kid]

One of the Omake says that she's constantly training, even when doing normal stuff like balancing the budget (they pulled out her chair from under her and she didn't notice because she was doing invisible chair training at the time). And of course, she uses the Ranma Saotome schoolbus route (fences and metahuman shortcuts) and her extracurricular activity is basically flexibility and coordination training.

[Siriel]

Wasn't Shou able to KO her pretty quickly? If that's right, then she definitely isn't as durable/has as good a damage soak as Kenichi.

Also, while she *is* training pretty hard by real world standards, we've never seen her train at the insane levels that Kenichi is training.

[Holy Spirit]

One of the Omake says that she's constantly training, even when doing normal stuff like balancing the budget (they pulled out her chair from under her and she didn't notice because she was doing invisible chair training at the time). And of course, she uses the Ranma Saotome schoolbus route (fences and metahuman shortcuts) and her extracurricular activity is basically flexibility and coordination training.
Ah.... well I stand corrected then.

Wasn't Shou able to KO her pretty quickly? If that's right, then she definitely isn't as durable/has as good a damage soak as Kenichi.

Also, while she *is* training pretty hard by real world standards, we've never seen her train at the insane levels that Kenichi is training.
Another good point.... I didn't even remember him knocking her out.

[Siriel]

Another good point.... I didn't even remember him knocking her out.

I'm not saying that Kenichi is a better fighter than her or anything, but given their comparative reaction to Shou hitting them, I'd say that it would take her quite a while to actually take him down if they fought.


I'd also agree that he's stronger than her, but then I haven't read the latest arc, so maybe she has new feats on that side.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Wasn't Shou able to KO her pretty quickly? If that's right, then she definitely isn't as durable/has as good a damage soak as Kenichi.

Also, while she *is* training pretty hard by real world standards, we've never seen her train at the insane levels that Kenichi is training.

To be fair, she's supposed to be a top tier, descended from a legendary tribe of warriors, direct descendent of the two strongest men in the world, one of whom took her on a long training trip for her childhood, normally holding a large portion of her power back and still kicking everyone's asses level talent and Kenichi is pretty much bottom of the ladder, when it comes to learning speed.

Also, he's training that long and hard to reach levels that she seems to pass (I'm pretty sure that current Kenichi is significantly better, featwise, than early Miu, but Miu herself is also beyond what she was at the start of the series) without as much on screen training, to the point where she is occasionally called in to help demonstrate the new technique that he's going to learn.

As for Shou KOing her, I can't really remember the circumstances for that one. Still, in addition to apparently being from the same legendary village as Miu is, Shou was shown to probably be able to kill Kenichi in one hit if he ever fought him seriously and, IIRC, even in their final duel Kenichi only won because Shou was playing around with him for most of the fight and was DQ'd for being KO'd for a few seconds, while Kenichi wasn't for the one or two times that Shou put him down that hard earlier in the fight. And the final result was that Kenichi was barely able to stand after the fight while Shou was able to bullet time in order to save Miu's life.

What I wanna know is exactly how good Renka is. My guess is that she's more or less Miu's level, but we really haven't seen her have a chance to go all out in awhile.

[Siriel]

You seem to think that I meant that Kenichi did well against Shou.

I just meant that he took more hits than her and didn't go down.
I hope you aren't saying that Shou hit the girl that he loved harder than he hit the guy that he didn't like and ultimately wanted to kill. Because that...would be a silly claim.

Kenichi legitimately winning against Shou or not doesn't matter. All that matters is how many hits Kenichi was able to take to determine if he's more durable than her or not.

[Siriel]

Also, I don't know why you bothered to list her heritage and innate learning talent when talking about her durability.

[The Drunkard Kid]

You seem to think that I meant that Kenichi did well against Shou.

I just meant that he took more hits than her and didn't go down.
I hope you aren't saying that Shou hit the girl that he loved harder than he hit the guy that he didn't like and ultimately wanted to kill. Because that...would be a silly claim.

Kenichi legitimately winning against Shou or not doesn't matter. All that matters is how many hits Kenichi was able to take to determine if he's more durable than her or not.Actually, I would make that claim. Because he actually respected Miu and considered her an equal, and thought that he was the only one who stood a chance of fighting her at her full strength when she went berserk, while he considered Kenichi and his friends to be bugs to be swatted in passing.

When Ken managed to land a hit on him because of that attitude after calming Miu down, Shou was about to kill Kenichi with one retaliatory shot if it wasn't for the fact that he'd promised that the first hit would win and he didn't want to look like a cheater while Miu was watching, IIRC.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Also, I don't know why you bothered to list her heritage and innate learning talent when talking about her durability.
Mostly it was me getting distracted by the part about the training; unlike Kenichi, who was said to have absolutely no talent for the art, Miu is supposed to be from a tribe whose bodies are exceptionally talented at the art.

I do think that Kenichi, especially when he's really revved up, is probably tougher than Miu -- its flat out said that he can lift more than she can, IIRC. The thing is that Miu's skill and experience are sufficient that she seems to be able to hit at least as hard as him, and can probably take a punch (an early chapter specifically showed that there are techniques and methods that you use when taking a hit to lower the damage that you take; Ken uses this, and Miu is probably at least as familiar with the idea) sufficiently better that the difference raw durability isn't as much of an issue.

Heck, in their most recent confrontation, a full out Miu, using a style she just learned over the last few days/weeks, smacks a Kenichi's defending arms so hard that it makes creaking/cracking noises, then stuns him by kicking him through a wall. She then proceeds to KO him with a simultaneous kick/punch(slash?) move. Granted, this is definitely not Ken at his best since he was confused and was flat out begging her not to fight and saying that he couldn't fight her, AND that last hit happened when he thought that Miu had come back to him, but it does at least show that whatever difference there is in their strength and durability, its not so insurmountable that Miu can't hurt him with her hits.

[Siriel]

When Ken managed to land a hit on him because of that attitude after calming Miu down, Shou was about to kill Kenichi with one retaliatory shot if it wasn't for the fact that he'd promised that the first hit would win and he didn't want to look like a cheater while Miu was watching, IIRC.

No such thing happened in their last fight. Kenichi tags Shou due to Shou having decided that the fight was over and turning to talk to Miu, Shou gets annoyed and starts wrecking him. (Well, Kenichi is still somewhat keeping up, but even he admits that Shou is way better.)

A bit later (unclear how long due to the scene switching to the Fortuna fight) Shou, getting impatient, decides to finish it with his Nine Hits One Kill and Kenichi ends up in his semi-conscious state where he awakens Ryusui Seikuken after getting wrecked by it.

So unless you want to argue that a pissed-off Shou who said that he would kill Kenichi with his next move decided to hold back when using his final technique...

Mostly it was me getting distracted by the part about the training; unlike Kenichi, who was said to have absolutely no talent for the art, Miu is supposed to be from a tribe whose bodies are exceptionally talented at the art.


The thing is that it has nothing to do with what I said. I said two things:

1 - Kenichi is more durable than Miu.
2 - He trains harder than her.

Nowhere did I say that this meant that he was more skilled than her or that he would win a fight.

[Siriel]

Oh! I know where the "First Hit Wins" thing came from.

It was Kenichi's 'fight' with the Expert guy who left in the middle of the DoD, when he came to have a training fight with the masters.

Yeah, that guy would probably have killed Kenichi, but he was considered just below a Master.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Alright, firstly, after looking at the fight in question, Shou defeats Miu (who isn't in her all out berserk mode) with a one handed sleeper hold, not raw strength. Since the only reason Shou was brought up in the first place was to say that Miu going down to one hit from Shou is worse of a showing from Kenichi taking multiple hits from him and remaining conscious, this alone is enough to take that argument off the table since Miu's defeat had nothing to do with durability.

The "first hit wins" one was from that same night, where after putting down there of Kenichi's teammates with one strike each (Takeda blocked the first strike, then was almost killed when Shou casually stuck his fingers in Takeda's gut as his next move, and Takeda is at least comparable to Kenichi in terms of durability after he started training with his master), Shou then is seen fighting exuberantly with a berserk Miu exalting in releasing her from her self-inflicted cage. When Kenichi broke her out of that mode, a pissed off Shou said that he'd kill Kenichi with one hit, then went for the same gut stab that he used on Takeda, but Kenichi expected it and just barely caught it even though it was explicitly too fast for him to see. Shou then casually lifted him up with the hand that Kenichi was grabbing and was about to follow up, but Miu was watching.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5923/historysstrongestdiscipc.jpg


No such thing happened in their last fight. Kenichi tags Shou due to Shou having decided that the fight was over and turning to talk to Miu, Shou gets annoyed and starts wrecking him. (Well, Kenichi is still somewhat keeping up, but even he admits that Shou is way better.)

A bit later (unclear how long due to the scene switching to the Fortuna fight) Shou, getting impatient, decides to finish it with his Nine Hits One Kill and Kenichi ends up in his semi-conscious state where he awakens Ryusui Seikuken after getting wrecked by it.

So unless you want to argue that a pissed-off Shou who said that he would kill Kenichi with his next move decided to hold back when using his final technique...

Actually, in their last fight, Kenichi was temporarily KO'd and almost died from Shou's first pass at him, only surviving because he was wearing Shigure's chainmail, while Shou was playing with him (turning his back right after that, and then doing it again the next time he knocked Kenichi down). When he used the Nine Hits One Kill, Kenichi couldn't do anything to stop it, but Shou froze up before he could land the final strike because he got surprised by all the explosions that rocked the coliseum

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2158/historysstrongestdiscipe.jpg.

After he broke out the Ryusui Seikuken, Shou countered with Gamaku and had Kenichi coughing blood with three punches and was about to land a head shot if the damage to the coliseum didn't cause Kenichi to drop out of the way of the attack as the ground crumbled below him. When he continued the assault, he spent the entire time monologuing at Kenichi about how he was being coddled by his masters and never learned the true path of martial arts so he would lose and blahblahblah. Basically, at that point he seemed to be more interested winning a duel of philosophy than ending the fight.

Shou then used Seidou Gou to blast through the Ryusui Seikuken and would have stabbed Kenichi in the back with that knife hand trick if Kenichi hadn't used those muscles to catch the move (that was the defensive tech I was trying to remember; IIRC, one time when Miu was sucker punched she claimed it was because her guard was down and she didn't use that move).

Shou then started blahblahing again, blew through a pissed off Kenichi's counter with ease, then KO'd Kenichi causing him to fight without any unnecessary moments and return a couple of Shou's strikes in such a way that all the force got rebounded back to Shou, confusing him, but not really doing much harm. Shou starts actually enjoying the fight now that Kenichi is closer to his level, and almost kicks him in the head after a flip if Kenichi hadn't grabbed onto an outcrop of rubble with his legs (which Shou then casually shatters with his next move).

When Kenichi regains consciousness, Shou tries the Nine Hit move again (boosted with the Seidou Gou this time), but Kenichi's mastered the Ryusui Seikuken now and is able to take it so that none of those hits landed cleanly, and, if I understand the image properly, Kenichi was able to interrupt it before the last strike and put in his own combo move (EDIT: which Shou in turn appears to interrupt as well). Shou lands a couple of more moves, then the both of them do a final attack on the grounds that Kenichi is severely injured from this and previous fights and Seidou Gou is tearing apart Shou's body and mind. Shou goes for a double neck strike and Kenichi manages to block one of Shou's hands with his shoulder and lands a full out Mubyoushi. They both collapse from the exertion, with Kenichi at least blacking out. Shou gets up first and is about to land a killing blow, but the power of friendship lets him stand up and Shou misses and collapses.

Hayato declares Kenichi the victor of the tournament, everyone goes out for pie and Shou accidentally orders the bullet flavored one.


The thing is that it has nothing to do with what I said. I said two things:

1 - Kenichi is more durable than Miu.
2 - He trains harder than her.

Nowhere did I say that this meant that he was more skilled than her or that he would win a fight.
The first one is kinda impossible to prove one way or the other since she hasn't taken any clean hits from anyone that isn't Master class, to my knowledge, even though I'd guess you were probably right. (EDIT: With the stipulation that it probably isn't a huge difference in actual combat situations, taking into account that defensive technique.)

The latter is also somewhat difficult to prove since we don't know exactly what kind of training she does during the series (she's usually shown doing housework when she's not sparring with him or in class, but since the manga follows Ken's training arcs, not hers, and he does a lot of away from her there's huge chunks of time that she's got to do whatever training that she and the elder might want to do), and we don't know what kind of training she went through in the decade or so before Kenichi came into her life, though it wouldn't exactly go towards the level of her current training regimine. If Shou was any indication, even Miu class prodigies have to go through Hell to reach those levels, though even he thinks that Kenichi must have been through some sort of weird excess to get to the point where he could fight unconsciously.

[nervmeister]

Why is not wearing undergarments part of the dress code for Pengak Silat students?

[The Drunkard Kid]

Why is not wearing undergarments part of the dress code for Pengak Silat students?Not wearing undergarments is part of the dress code for combat Miu in general, considering what we see of her when her spandex starts being inevitably shredded.

[Jmacq1]

Wasn't Shou able to KO her pretty quickly? If that's right, then she definitely isn't as durable/has as good a damage soak as Kenichi.

Also, while she *is* training pretty hard by real world standards, we've never seen her train at the insane levels that Kenichi is training.

Shou's exception has been explained above, and as noted, had little to do with durability in the sense of being able to take a punch.

As for Kenichi's levels of training: Recall the reasons Kenichi undergoes those levels of training: They're still effectively working on actually training his body up to acceptable levels of physical fitness (Of course, "acceptable levels of physical fitness" for Ryozanpaku is ludicrous for normal people).

The point being - We don't see Miu undergoing Kenichi's "training from hell" is most likely because she's already at an "acceptable" level of fitness and effectively doesn't need the "basic training" that Kenichi continually undergoes in order to play "catch up." Or put another way because he's not a martial-arts prodigy, Kenichi requires training from hell to have any chance of surviving the kinds of battles he faces as the disciple of Ryozanpaku. Certainly his skill is improving at a faster rate than Miu's, but that's the nature of training...early on you improve quickly, and eventually you level out and the improvement comes much more slowly. There's a reason "brown belt burnout" is common in martial arts circles.

Also, Miu is in a bit of an odd spot...Omake aside, there really isn't anyone on her level at the Dojo. As noted in an early chapter, sparring with the Masters doesn't really help that much, and Kenichi, aside from not really being able to fight her psychologically, doesn't have the level of skill to challenge her (yet).

Now, this is just my interpretation, but to me Miu is basically "Expert" level (In-between Disciple and Master) even if she tends to still believe she's a "disciple" (bearing in mind that Ryozanpaku's standards of accomplishment seem to be much higher than others). And even if she doesn't quite reach that level normally, I'd say when she's in "berserk" mode she definitely veers sharply into that level of skill/power.

[Siriel]

Now, this is just my interpretation, but to me Miu is basically "Expert" level (In-between Disciple and Master) even if she tends to still believe she's a "disciple" (bearing in mind that Ryozanpaku's standards of accomplishment seem to be much higher than others). And even if she doesn't quite reach that level normally, I'd say when she's in "berserk" mode she definitely veers sharply into that level of skill/power.

The Ryozanpaku's masters have acknowledged Kenishi as being (at the bottom of) Expert-level. I certainly hope Miu is also on that level.

It's just that "Expert" isn't an official title, unlike Master and Disciple, so no one is going around proclaiming themselves as Experts.

[Jmacq1]

The Ryozanpaku's masters have acknowledged Kenishi as being (at the bottom of) Expert-level. I certainly hope Miu is also on that level.

It's just that "Expert" isn't an official title, unlike Master and Disciple, so no one is going around proclaiming themselves as Experts.

Actually, I was under the impression that the masters did not acknowledge Kenichi as being expert level, simply praised him for doing as well as he did against someone that was a genuine expert-level martial artist, and said something more along the lines of Kenichi being at the high-end of "disciplehood."

The also did clearly make a differentiation between "Master", "Expert" and "Disciple."

[Siriel]

Actually, I was under the impression that the masters did not acknowledge Kenichi as being expert level, simply praised him for doing as well as he did against someone that was a genuine expert-level martial artist, and said something more along the lines of Kenichi being at the high-end of "disciplehood."

The also did clearly make a differentiation between "Master", "Expert" and "Disciple."
I am fairly sure they commented that he was at the bottom of expert at one point, but...

Well, I can't recall the chapter and I don't feel like browsing through hundred of pages, so whatever.

[nervmeister]

Keep on hustlin', Kenichi. :tongue:

[master of read]

damn. and here i thought it would work for sure.

[Dark Soul # 7]

You know. I'm really liking this arc.

It's a good diversion from the usual set-up.

[nervmeister]

damn. and here i thought it would work for sure.

Maybe it did, since getting the shit kicked out of him is the usual result.

[Holy Spirit]

Awww... good try Kenichi.

Kenichi: "I'll be done for with three or four kicks!!!" *Looks at last page*



Yeah.... you better be wrong about that one buddy.

[FistofIron]

damn. and here i thought it would work for sure.

Me to bro. It would be interesting if is unconscious and reverts to his less constrained self.

[Jmacq1]

I don't think it matters. Miu > Kenichi

But I figured the old technique wouldn't work...that'd have been too easy. Miu's going to have to reach the point where she's one blow away from killing Kenichi for dramatic purposes. Then Hayato or Sakaki or whoever will show up and save the day while she hesitates.

[Kusanagi]

Is anyone kind of hoping we see a brief replay of what happened in the Shou fight? ie. Kenichi loses consciousness for a bit, and fights Miu on instinct? Of course it would defeat the purpose of bringing her back to sanity, but it would be fun to watch. :tongue:

[Dark Soul # 7]

Is anyone kind of hoping we see a brief replay of what happened in the Shou fight? ie. Kenichi loses consciousness for a bit, and fights Miu on instinct? Of course it would defeat the purpose of bringing her back to sanity, but it would be fun to watch. :tongue:And it would actually gives us a glimps of both of them going at each other without holding back.

[Jmacq1]

Is anyone kind of hoping we see a brief replay of what happened in the Shou fight? ie. Kenichi loses consciousness for a bit, and fights Miu on instinct? Of course it would defeat the purpose of bringing her back to sanity, but it would be fun to watch. :tongue:


And it would actually gives us a glimps of both of them going at each other without holding back.

I'm honestly not understanding the seeming preoccupation with whether Kenichi has caught up to Miu.

Once again, from my point of view, if he has (much less exceeded her), then the Manga is pretty much pointless from a thematic standpoint moving forward. May as well just wrap it up and go home, as the main thrust of his character arc is effectively ended (he would be able to "protect" anyone short of Master-class folks better than they could on their own).

Besides, I'm betting even unconscious Kenichi would refuse to hit a girl. It's too much a part of him. Kenichi doesn't have the "dark side" that Miu does, so it's not like he becomes an unrestrained killing machine when he goes into "unconscious fighting mode."

[Dark Soul # 7]

I'm honestly not understanding the seeming preoccupation with whether Kenichi has caught up to Miu.

Once again, from my point of view, if he has (much less exceeded her), then the Manga is pretty much pointless from a thematic standpoint moving forward. May as well just wrap it up and go home, as the main thrust of his character arc is effectively ended (he would be able to "protect" anyone short of Master-class folks better than they could on their own).

Besides, I'm betting even unconscious Kenichi would refuse to hit a girl. It's too much a part of him. Kenichi doesn't have the "dark side" that Miu does, so it's not like he becomes an unrestrained killing machine when he goes into "unconscious fighting mode."I don't think that he's really caught up to her. It's just that if he's fighting while unconscious then he might go all out against Miu, something he wouldn't do any other time, and then we might actually get a good sense of how big the difference is between them.

[Jmacq1]

I don't think that he's really caught up to her. It's just that if he's fighting while unconscious then he might go all out against Miu, something he wouldn't do any other time, and then we might actually get a good sense of how big the difference is between them.

See, I'm not sure even unconscious-Kenichi would go "all out."

On a side note: I wonder how significant Kenichi being without his armguards is going to be?

I almost wonder if we might see our first full appearance of the One Shadow before this storyline is out (remember Hongo was going to visit him before he showed up to help Sakaki and Co...). Which may or may not play into one of my earlier speculations/theories (about Kushinada setting Jenazad/Junazard up to take a fall).

[Hazard]

Once again, from my point of view, if he has (much less exceeded her), then the Manga is pretty much pointless from a thematic standpoint moving forward. May as well just wrap it up and go home, as the main thrust of his character arc is effectively ended (he would be able to "protect" anyone short of Master-class folks better than they could on their own).

I'll disagree here. I don't see Miu being stronger then Kenichi as something particularly important from a thematic point of view.

And even if it was that the 'short of Master class folks' part of your post pretty much outlines why Kenichi would still have to grow stronger despite being stronger than Miu in the case that it is. I mean, I have always taken as a given that we will reach master class at a certain point. Miu's father all but guarantees it.

[Jmacq1]

I'll disagree here. I don't see Miu being stronger then Kenichi as something particularly important from a thematic point of view.

And even if it was that the 'short of Master class folks' part of your post pretty much outlines why Kenichi would still have to grow stronger despite being stronger than Miu in the case that it is. I mean, I have always taken as a given that we will reach master class at a certain point. Miu's father all but guarantees it.

If he ever reaches master class then the story REALLY needs to end (or at least start a new volume)...because then it isn't "History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi" anymore.

Personally I'm not sure we'll ever see Kenichi fight and beat a master-class on his own/achieve Master Class himself. By his Masters' own admissions he's years away from that point (in a Manga that at most has covered what...2-3 years of in-universe time so far?), and you don't need a direct confrontation or combat victory over the One Shadow to be "victorious." Likewise Hayato's continual decrees that Kenichi must beat him in a fight to be with Miu...there can easily be a loophole thrown in (or the Manga could just end with the understanding that at some point in the future it'll happen even if we don't see it on-panel).

[Dark Soul # 7]

Personally I'm not sure we'll ever see Kenichi fight and beat a master-class on his own/achieve Master Class himself. By his Masters' own admissions he's years away from that point (in a Manga that at most has covered what...2-3 years of in-universe time so far?), I doubt that there's been more than maybe a year. And yeah, Kenichi probably won't be a master until the very end.

[Hazard]

If he ever reaches master class then the story REALLY needs to end (or at least start a new volume)...because then it isn't "History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi" anymore.

As long as Kenichi is a disciple it doesn't matter how strong he is. I mean the story never really called itself Strongest Disciple Class Guy. We didn't even know there was a thing called disciple class until way later on.

So long as the kid is a disciple he counts.


Personally I'm not sure we'll ever see Kenichi fight and beat a master-class on his own/achieve Master Class himself. By his Masters' own admissions he's years away from that point (in a Manga that at most has covered what...2-3 years of in-universe time so far?), and you don't need a direct confrontation or combat victory over the One Shadow to be "victorious." Likewise Hayato's continual decrees that Kenichi must beat him in a fight to be with Miu...there can easily be a loophole thrown in (or the Manga could just end with the understanding that at some point in the future it'll happen even if we don't see it on-panel).

We will have to disagree here. I am pretty much certain that's what is going to happen. Kenichi will fight Masters at some point.

[Holy Spirit]

There is an expert class/level as well, so....... there's that.

[Jmacq1]

I doubt that there's been more than maybe a year. And yeah, Kenichi probably won't be a master until the very end.

It's been more than a year. We've seen the beginning of two school years, at the very least. So it could be as little as a year and a half that's passed in-universe.


As long as Kenichi is a disciple it doesn't matter how strong he is. I mean the story never really called itself Strongest Disciple Class Guy. We didn't even know there was a thing called disciple class until way later on.

So long as the kid is a disciple he counts.

Except that when you're a master, you're not a disciple anymore. You really can't be both. You can try to argue the semantics all you want, but the meaning of the title is clear in the context of the story.




We will have to disagree here. I am pretty much certain that's what is going to happen. Kenichi will fight Masters at some point.

Then you must be expecting some kind of major timeskip or for the writers/artists to live for another century or so to cover the necessary time period.

[Hazard]

Except that when you're a master, you're not a disciple anymore. You really can't be both. You can try to argue the semantics all you want, but the meaning of the title is clear in the context of the story.

I, for one, have never taken the title of the manga to refer to disciple class.

Besides, the thinking is flawed. Being a master does not mean one can't be a student. A teacher can still be a student.

If Sasaki were to suddenly study under Miu's grandpa there is no denying he would be a disciple to him, despite being a master to Kenichi.


Then you must be expecting some kind of major timeskip or for the writers/artists to live for another century or so to cover the necessary time period.

Kenichi has gone from total wimp to 'put Olympic level athletes to shame' in about year.

The masters may say all they want about his lack of talent, but his growth rate in the manga has always been unnatural, so I don't see reaching Master class as impossible.

[The Drunkard Kid]

In Kenichi's case, they're explicitly doing training and medical treatments that 99% of martial artists could never hope to receive (or survive without the latter) and are basically remodeling his body from the ground up. A pretty explicit parallel was made to what the YAMI Juijitsu master was doing to Chikage.

[Jmacq1]

I, for one, have never taken the title of the manga to refer to disciple class.

That doesn't mean your interpretation isn't wrong.


Besides, the thinking is flawed. Being a master does not mean one can't be a student. A teacher can still be a student.

If Sasaki were to suddenly study under Miu's grandpa there is no denying he would be a disciple to him, despite being a master to Kenichi.

Except there's not a single example of things working that way in the Manga thus far. When you're a Master, you're still training to maintain your skills (and to try to push them even further along the path of "perfection," but you're not under someone's specific tutelage. That's the whole point of being a Master...you've reached the point where traditional learning is of limited/negligible value to you, and the only way to improve further is self-experimentation (pushing your own boundaries to try to perfect your art). If you're still operating right under someone's nose and direct tutelage...you're still a disciple, not a Master. A Master doesn't need a specific teacher. They've advanced beyond that.




Kenichi has gone from total wimp to 'put Olympic level athletes to shame' in about year.

The masters may say all they want about his lack of talent, but his growth rate in the manga has always been unnatural, so I don't see reaching Master class as impossible.

Oh, it's far from impossible. It just won't happen until the final/near-final volume of the Manga, if on-panel at all.

[Hazard]

That doesn't mean your interpretation isn't wrong

When exactly was the term disciple class introduced in the manga? First chapter? Tenth chapter? One Hundredth chapter?


Except there's not a single example of things working that way in the Manga thus far. When you're a Master, you're still training to maintain your skills (and to try to push them even further along the path of "perfection," but you're not under someone's specific tutelage. That's the whole point of being a Master...you've reached the point where traditional learning is of limited/negligible value to you, and the only way to improve further is self-experimentation (pushing your own boundaries to try to perfect your art). If you're still operating right under someone's nose and direct tutelage...you're still a disciple, not a Master. A Master doesn't need a specific teacher. They've advanced beyond that.


See this makes no sense at all. If a Karate Master wanted to learn Kung Fu, why would he teach himself Kung Fu, where there is a perfectly able Kung Fu teacher available.

The idea that you can reach a point where an instructor is never going to be needed at all or that you are not going to use one at all is fundamentally flawed in many ways.


Anyway, let's agree to disagree.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Was Sakaki still training under his master when Yami offered to make him one of the Nine Fists?

[FistofIron]

Was Sakaki still training under his master when Yami offered to make him one of the Nine Fists?

Nah his master was dead when they tried to recruit him.

[Holy Spirit]

I don't like that mask that Miu wears..... I want to see her face while all this is happening with Kenichi.

[sun tzu]

Did...Did Kenichi just hit a girl?

[Len Ikari145]

Did...Did Kenichi just hit a girl?

Yes, yes he did. And I feel Hell freezing over as we speak.:eek:

[Holy Spirit]

Did...Did Kenichi just hit a girl?
I don't.... think so.

[penguin-in-leather-jacket]

he certainly tried though, which is a big change. when he went on the mission with Sakaki that ended up with him encountering the Savate master assassin Christopher Eclaire, he couldn't bring himself to strike one of CE's female subordinates. all he could do was use jujitsu holds to grapple her and, iirc, tie her up.

[sun tzu]

Plus, it's not just any girl. It's Miu.
This is how you know Kenichi is taking the situation seriously. :eek:

[Dark Soul # 7]

Why is it that we aren't talking about how insanely manly and awesome Kenichi's been these last few chapters.

Seriously, this is probably the most badass the guy's been ever.

[Nik Hasta]

Why is it that we aren't talking about how insanely manly and awesome Kenichi's been these last few chapters.

Seriously, this is probably the most badass the guy's been ever.

I'm too busy enjoying how good the art has gotten recently.

[Len Ikari145]

Come to think of it, does anyone happen to know anything about the release date for the OVAs that continue where the anime left off?

[penguin-in-leather-jacket]

it's interesting seeing Kenichi explicitly compared to Hayato.

as for the new OVA's, don't expect them for a few more months. i'm thinking autumn.

[Dark Soul # 7]

New chapter out.

Hongou has decided to not let Kenichi have all the awesome in this arc and acts extra-awesome in this chapter.

I love how Sakaki basically goes "For the love of... THIS IS HOW YOU FIGHT WITHOUT KILLING PEOPLE!"

[Kage Kisaragi]

it's interesting seeing Kenichi explicitly compared to Hayato.

as for the new OVA's, don't expect them for a few more months. i'm thinking autumn.

I fear they are going to go the Naruto... sigh, here we go.

[Kusanagi]

In terms of power level scale I have no fears of HDSK becoming like most shonen's if only cause his masters are still light years ahead of him with no sign of him ever catching up. I can't imagine a scenario that would have him even be considered a master, let alone on their level, without the series ending.

[Nik Hasta]

I do like the "I will protect you OOOOAAAAA!"-ness of this storyline.

This arc has been kickass.

[Miburohunter929]

I'm going to miss Bulu. ;_;

[sun tzu]

I do like the "I will protect you OOOOAAAAA!"-ness of this storyline.

While I love HSDK, I kinda hate the "I must protect Miu" thing he's got going on.
Miu is badass. Miu is tougher than him. If he wants her to be safe so much, it would make more sense to worry about her progress as a martial artist - but he's never shown himself to care one iota about it. I think Kenichi is a great guy, but it seems to me like he's got huge blinders where Miu is concerned - like what he wants the most isn't for her to be safe, but for him to be the one protecting her.
It's like, since he doesn't have to guts to tell her he loves her, he thinks instead that being "the one who'll protect Miu" is equivalent to being her boyfriend. It's always left an unpleasant taste in my mouth.

[Holy Spirit]

I do like the "I will protect you OOOOAAAAA!"-ness of this storyline.
That's one of the things I like about Kenichi.

[Kusanagi]

badass new chapter, I think that's about it for Kenichi this fight though. Didn't look entirely conscious during that last save, might be up to Miu to finish it.

[Len Ikari145]

While I love HSDK, I kinda hate the "I must protect Miu" thing he's got going on.
Miu is badass. Miu is tougher than him. If he wants her to be safe so much, it would make more sense to worry about her progress as a martial artist - but he's never shown himself to care one iota about it. I think Kenichi is a great guy, but it seems to me like he's got huge blinders where Miu is concerned - like what he wants the most isn't for her to be safe, but for him to be the one protecting her.
It's like, since he doesn't have to guts to tell her he loves her, he thinks instead that being "the one who'll protect Miu" is equivalent to being her boyfriend. It's always left an unpleasant taste in my mouth.

I don't think it's so much that he wants to be the only one to protect her, as much as it's about him being worthy enough to stand by her side. He admitted waaaaay back in the earlier chapters (almost Post-Ragnorak) in a conversation with Akisame that she was stronger than he was and that he looked up to her; the goal of being with Miu and being equal to her are one in the same for Kenichi. In a sense, she's a rival to him as much as a love interest. So, it's not like he has this chauvinistic idea that she needs protection from him, but more like he wants to be dependable to her by being on equal footing. At least, from what I've observed.

Hell, to reinforce my earlier point, I'll wager it's probably because of his idolization that he doesn't seem worry about her progress since she's still above him as a martial artist from his POV.

[Nik Hasta]

While I love HSDK, I kinda hate the "I must protect Miu" thing he's got going on.
Miu is badass. Miu is tougher than him. If he wants her to be safe so much, it would make more sense to worry about her progress as a martial artist - but he's never shown himself to care one iota about it. I think Kenichi is a great guy, but it seems to me like he's got huge blinders where Miu is concerned - like what he wants the most isn't for her to be safe, but for him to be the one protecting her.
It's like, since he doesn't have to guts to tell her he loves her, he thinks instead that being "the one who'll protect Miu" is equivalent to being her boyfriend. It's always left an unpleasant taste in my mouth.

I agree that the weird conflation of "protector," with "boyfriend," has always been a bit of an odd bit of this manga.

I like this chapter though because this is a moment where Miu genuinely needs Kenichi and, by god, he is going to be there for her even if it kills him in the process. The sheer power of the emotions at play here are quite evocative and a lot of a fun.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I hope this break allows for him to think up some cool new battles for the other members of the Shinpaku Alliance.

[nervmeister]

So clothing damage was the key to snapping Miu out of her brainwashing. Huge shocker there. (/sarcasm)

[Kage Kisaragi]

So clothing damage was the key to snapping Miu out of her brainwashing. Huge shocker there. (/sarcasm)

As much as I love Miu, and loved seeing her prove how awesome she is in a fight, i kind of felt she was being exploited more than being badass.. Demon God Fist is a perv. Where does this guy keep getting his fruit/vegetables from? He must be the healthiest villain ever.

[nervmeister]

As much as I love Miu, and loved seeing her prove her awesome she is in a fight, i kind of felt she was being exploited more than being badass.. Demon God Fist is a perv. Where does this guy keep getting this fruit/vegetables from. He must be the healthiest villain ever.To say Miu is exploited in HSDK is like saying that not much air conditioning is needed in Antarctica. Small nations could be rendered bankrupt by Miu's clothing bill alone. Hell, they probably need to make everything she wears out of the same material as her new mask, (not that it guarantees she wont somehow shred off her body regardless).

As for Jenazad, he's basically the unholy offspring of Akuma and those "eat healthy" TV ad messages aimed towards kids. So I agree with you.

"You don't need a stable family upbringing or a childhood for that matter! ALL you need is fruit!"

[Dark Soul # 7]

I like this chapter though because this is a moment where Miu genuinely needs Kenichi and, by god, he is going to be there for her even if it kills him in the process. The sheer power of the emotions at play here are quite evocative and a lot of a fun.Agreed.

I think that this is the most engaged in the series I've been since the final fight against Shou Kanon. By golly that was awesome.

[Dark Soul # 7]

First 7 or so minutes of the OVA and a teaser trailer at the end. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-02-15/kenichi-video-anime-project-1st-7-minutes-streamed)

[Kage Kisaragi]

new chapter out.

wow, so much booty in this chapter, yet it looks smaller, but its the butt crack line stopping short? The Kenichi Kick saves the day.

[Kusanagi]

Without getting caught up in the massive amounts of fan service, Kenichi has probably been the most badass he has ever been in this arc, and the good news is it doesn't feel forced. A fun read through and through.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Man.

These last few chapters have really poured on the awesomeness.

I love the Kenichi/Miu team-up.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Aww damnit.

I liked John the incompotent mercenary. I'm gonna miss him. I wonder how many will that he's died from reading that comment.

[Miburohunter929]

Ohhhhhhhhhh

Shiiiittttttttttt

[Jmacq1]

Ohhhhhhhhhh

Shiiiittttttttttt

Ayep.

Gonna be interesting to see what position the new arrival takes. Clearly he's looking to protect Miu (and maybe Kenichi), but will he try to turn Kenichi to the dark side? Or just see them safely away?

I did kinda figure he'd turn up somewhere in this arc, though...after all Hongo went to visit him before joining this little adventure.

I confess...he's a lot more dapper and "pretty" than I expected him to be, but then again it -is- Miu's dad we're talking about....

Side Note: I kinda hope they keep Miu's "psychotic flashes" around for a while. They're pretty funny.

Other Side Note: I think the Miu fanservice in this arc is reaching metatextual levels....

[Hazard]

Did not see that one coming.

[FistofIron]

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Drunkard Kid]

EDIT: And Jonothan? The One Shadow Nine Fists, trying to help save his daughter and stop Jenazad from tearing apart Yami for fun. He doesn't look like that because of any special tech or anything, that's just his natural body type. All the flashbacks and everything were just Hayato and the others projecting their expectations onto him. Not quite 100%, but I still goddamned called it!

[Nik Hasta]

Ohhhhhhhhhh

Shiiiittttttttttt

That was pretty much my reaction.

This arc has been really good overall.

[Holy Spirit]

OHHH YEEEEAAAHHHH! It's about to go down!!!:biggrin:

I am pleased with this development...... easily on pace to be the best arc so far.


Depending on what happens next..... this could be as good as the Aizen reveal. Hopefully even better.

Ayep.

Gonna be interesting to see what position the new arrival takes. Clearly he's looking to protect Miu (and maybe Kenichi), but will he try to turn Kenichi to the dark side? Or just see them safely away?
I could see it going either way.... but I think his main concern will be one of two things. First, make sure Miu gets to safety. Second, destroy the ever loving crap out of Jenazad.


As to Kenichi.... well..... he is there for Miu..... Kenichi's presence would be more like a side effect of that. So, even if he has plans for him later.... for now.... I think he'd let that go as his way of saying "Thank You." for risking his life for his daughter. Plus, he can escort her out while he deals with Jenazad.

I did kinda figure he'd turn up somewhere in this arc, though...after all Hongo went to visit him before joining this little adventure.
Yeah, me too.

Although, I wonder if Hongo knew the One Shadow was already among them or..... he only knew he'd be coming eventually and the disguise was just as much a surprise to him as it was to me.

I confess...he's a lot more dapper and "pretty" than I expected him to be, but then again it -is- Miu's dad we're talking about....
I wasn't to surprised by it.

I remember there was a flash back of Hayato Fūrinji in his younger days with Mikumo Kushinada and he seemed rather handsome back in the day.

Other Side Note: I think the Miu fanservice in this arc is reaching metatextual levels....
It has been kinda..... in your face as of late.

[Kusanagi]

Ohhhhhhhhhh

Shiiiittttttttttt

My exact reaction to this chapter o.o

[Jmacq1]

I could see it going either way.... but I think his main concern will be one of two things. First, make sure Miu gets to safety. Second, destroy the ever loving crap out of Jenazad.

As to Kenichi.... well..... he is there for Miu..... Kenichi's presence would be more like a side effect of that. So, even if he has plans for him later.... for now.... I think he'd let that go as his way of saying "Thank You." for risking his life for his daughter. Plus, he can escort her out while he deals with Jenazad.

I do suspect he'll fall on the "affable" side of evil for the most part. At least at first. The question being how does he react when Sakaki shows up? And as for Jenazad...does he wait to see if Hongo can take him first (possibly resulting in Hongo's death)?


It has been kinda..... in your face as of late.

Yeah, a practically half-page panel of Miu's butt and her screaming "What are you staring at?" seems almost as though it could be directed at the reader(s) as much as Kenichi....

[Holy Spirit]

I do suspect he'll fall on the "affable" side of evil for the most part. At least at first. The question being how does he react when Sakaki shows up?
I..... can't see him being worried about Sakaki.

If he insists on getting in the way.... he'll be brushed aside like to much lint on his shoulder.

And as for Jenazad...does he wait to see if Hongo can take him first (possibly resulting in Hongo's death)?
A lot of possibilities.

I think........ his course of action will depend on if he knows how long it's going to take for Hongo to get there.

Yeah, a practically half-page panel of Miu's butt and her screaming "What are you staring at?" seems almost as though it could be directed at the reader(s) as much as Kenichi....
Well.... in our defense..... not much else to look at.


On a lighter note, I think the art work has gotten even better. For example Miu's body, face and hair are all crisp and smooth, even the expressions seem more...... expressive.

If you look at some of the earlier chapters and compare..... almost Bleach levels of improvement.

[Jmacq1]

I..... can't see him being worried about Sakaki.

If he insists on getting in the way.... he'll be brushed aside like to much lint on his shoulder.

Yeah, I didn't mean in the sense that Sakaki would likely be a challenge. More in the sense of "would he casually kill him without a second thought?"


A lot of possibilities.

I think........ his course of action will depend on if he knows how long it's going to take for Hongo to get there.

Isn't Hongo already fighting Jenazad?


Well.... in our defense..... not much else to look at.

True! But that in and of itself still makes me think it might be a little joke on the readers.


On a lighter note, I think the art work has gotten even better. For example Miu's body, face and hair are all crisp and smooth, even the expressions seem more...... expressive.

If you look at some of the earlier chapters and compare..... almost Bleach levels of improvement.

Never read Bleach, but yes, the Artwork has seemed considerably better of late.

[Holy Spirit]

Yeah, I didn't mean in the sense that Sakaki would likely be a challenge. More in the sense of "would he casually kill him without a second thought?"
Sakaki's character shield is going to be a royal pain to get through. If there is one thing Apachai's fight has taught me..... it's that.

I don't think he'll die.... just get casually dealt with. Maybe get put in the hospital for a while at the most.

Isn't Hongo already fighting Jenazad?
*Blink* *Runs off to check previous chapters*

Well I'll be..... he sure is.



Ok, so, in light of that..... assuming the fight isn't over by the time the One Shadow gets there, I think it comes down to a few things.

#1. Does the One Shadow care about any of the Nine Fists personally? I'm inclined to say no..... given the nature of the killing fist. I would think it encourages one to become somewhat.... detached. Aside from their little ones the masters don't seem to warm with other people. I suspect the One Shadow will be much the same with Hongo.


#2. Does he care about his organization? I think so, he is there after all.

If so, how much? That's kinda.... hard to say. He's got virtually no screen time. But... looking at the situation. He's already lost two of the Fists to prison and is probably going to take a third out himself..... if he allows Hongo to die that's a fourth. Losing four out of nine fists is bad for business no matter how you slice it. And I'm inclined to believe that he does care about his organization at least a little bit or else.... why make it? So, logically...... whether he actually cares about Hongo or not shouldn't really factor in because he'll save him for the sake of keeping his group stable and strong.

#3. Honor as a martial artist? Ok, see all those things I've said so far? This is the one that pretty much just throws a monkey wrench in all of it. If he is the "Honor before reason." type and considers it rude/disrespectful/dishonorable to interrupt a fight between two masters, screw the consequences, I could see him letting Hongo die. Especially if he's a fundamental believer in the killing path as I suspect he is. If you can kill your own woman over this kinda stuff......

True! But that in and of itself still makes me think it might be a little joke on the readers.
Hey, if that's his way of messing with us.... well.... there are worse ways to get messed with. :cool:

[Pong]

I decided to catch up with the series and man I choose good moment.

Miu's Dad kicks ass! :eek:


I also lole'd when he basically bro-fisted Kenichi.

Is that supposed to be the Big Bad, One Shadow?

[Holy Spirit]

Is that supposed to be the Big Bad, One Shadow?
The night is still young.

[Dark Soul # 7]

The night is still young.Maybe later but right now it seems like he just left the situation all together.

And it was kind of hinted that he didn't want Jenazad to know he was there so he probably won't jump into action much more this arc.

[Siriel]

Well, at least Kenichi seems to have her father's approval in his courting of Miu, if not her grandfather's. :tongue:

"A man like you is worth trusting." is a pretty big compliment, given who gave it.



Also, the fanservice has really gotten overboard while I wasn't reading.-_-

[nervmeister]

So the fearsome ruler of Yami has appeared! The monstrous "shadow" who's sinister organization scourges the world and makes people tremble in fear! And he's............kind of a nice guy actually.

EDIT: But then again, something tells me that hair clip he gave Ken has a tracking device inside it now.

[Pong]

EDIT: But then again, something tells me that hair clip he gave Ken has a tracking device inside it now.

It's not like Miu's whereabouts are secret to him. He knows where she lives.

[Jmacq1]

Yeah, OK...REALLY not sure what Fuurinji Saiga's deal is now, which I'm sure is the point. Is all this nice guy/no killing stuff just a show for Kenichi's sake? Does he only kill those he considers worthy of his skill (ala Hongo)? Or perhaps he's like Miu...a nice guy most of the time but when you push him past his breaking point....though in that case I'd wonder why form the Nine Fists at all?

[Siriel]

Yeah, OK...REALLY not sure what Fuurinji Saiga's deal is now, which I'm sure is the point. Is all this nice guy/no killing stuff just a show for Kenichi's sake? Does he only kill those he considers worthy of his skill (ala Hongo)? Or perhaps he's like Miu...a nice guy most of the time but when you push him past his breaking point....though in that case I'd wonder why form the Nine Fists at all?

Really, it's not all that out there that he could believe that martial arts should be used to kill and still be a fairly nice guy who cares about people who have family.

[Holy Spirit]

Yeah, OK...REALLY not sure what Fuurinji Saiga's deal is now, which I'm sure is the point. Is all this nice guy/no killing stuff just a show for Kenichi's sake?
I think he genuinely has a pleasant personality/demeanor..... but sparing the minions lives was more for Kenichi's benefit.

Saiga letting them live is pretty much the only thing that's surprised me so far.

Does he only kill those he considers worthy of his skill (ala Hongo)?
It's possible.

Or perhaps he's like Miu...a nice guy most of the time but when you push him past his breaking point....though in that case I'd wonder why form the Nine Fists at all?
He's...... got to be fundamentally different from Miu/Elder in some way..... otherwise he wouldn't have left Ryozanpaku.

[Nik Hasta]

Really, it's not all that out there that he could believe that martial arts should be used to kill and still be a fairly nice guy who cares about people who have family.

Exactly, look at Hongo and, to a lesser extent, Agaard Jum Sai and the Yoga-style master. None of them are particularly evil exactly, just kind of casual about killing people if they fill the situation calls for it. I could see Saiga just being like them and ludicrously strong to boot.

I still want to know where Kensei sits in the pecking order of Yami.

[Pong]

Even the Elder stated that Saiga wasn't bloodthirsty beast but rather started believing in spilling small amount of blood for greater good.

[Jmacq1]

Exactly, look at Hongo and, to a lesser extent, Agaard Jum Sai and the Yoga-style master. None of them are particularly evil exactly, just kind of casual about killing people if they fill the situation calls for it. I could see Saiga just being like them and ludicrously strong to boot.

I still want to know where Kensei sits in the pecking order of Yami.


Even the Elder stated that Saiga wasn't bloodthirsty beast but rather started believing in spilling small amount of blood for greater good.

I get all that, but I'm trying to reconcile that "can still be a nice guy that just happens to kill people with martial arts" with "Hmmm, lemme put together this group of folks that believe in killing people with the martial arts that range from "Complete Psycho" (Jenazad) to "Guy who'll order innocent schoolkids killed without a second thought" (Gaidar), to "Mad Martial Arts Scientists" (Kensei, Kushinada) to "Honorable Killers" (Hongo, Agaard, possibly/probably Rahman) to "Diego" (Diego, because clearly Diego is in a class of Diego's own) and of course the wildcard Sougetsu Ma.

I'm just trying to see the larger angle. I get that there's supposed to be a philosophical struggle against the satsu-types (with Ryozanpaku being the poster-boys n' girls for that), but it's hard for me to see "Nice guy that thinks spilling a little blood here and there is OK" as a guy that would feel so strongly about it that he'd all but appoint himself the grand master of the "killing fist." You could make an argument that he's trying to control/channel Yomi, but to what end? He's certainly not stopping them from engaging in all manner of bloodshed and such around the world, and of course by its' very nature the idea of "restraining" the killing fist would seem antithetical to their philosophy.

But obviously there's likely much more to come from Fuurinji Saiga. I'm mostly just spitballing here/explaining why it doesn't seem to add up (so far) in my noggin.

[Holy Spirit]

I get all that, but I'm trying to reconcile that "can still be a nice guy that just happens to kill people with martial arts" with "Hmmm, lemme put together this group of folks that believe in killing people with the martial arts that range from "Complete Psycho" (Jenazad) to "Guy who'll order innocent schoolkids killed without a second thought" (Gaidar), to "Mad Martial Arts Scientists" (Kensei, Kushinada) to "Honorable Killers" (Hongo, Agaard, possibly/probably Rahman) to "Diego" (Diego, because clearly Diego is in a class of Diego's own) and of course the wildcard Sougetsu Ma.

I'm just trying to see the larger angle. I get that there's supposed to be a philosophical struggle against the satsu-types (with Ryozanpaku being the poster-boys n' girls for that), but it's hard for me to see "Nice guy that thinks spilling a little blood here and there is OK" as a guy that would feel so strongly about it that he'd all but appoint himself the grand master of the "killing fist." You could make an argument that he's trying to control/channel Yomi, but to what end? He's certainly not stopping them from engaging in all manner of bloodshed and such around the world, and of course by its' very nature the idea of "restraining" the killing fist would seem antithetical to their philosophy.

But obviously there's likely much more to come from Fuurinji Saiga. I'm mostly just spitballing here/explaining why it doesn't seem to add up (so far) in my noggin.
Ah..... I get what you're saying.

"Diego" (Diego, because clearly Diego is in a class of Diego's own)
This put a smile on my face. :smile:

[penguin-in-leather-jacket]

Diego belongs in the Complete Monster class. that was the whole point of the match on the cruise ship; he was going to blow the whole thing into non-existence for the entertainment of who-the-hell-knows how many viewers watching the broadcast. he flat-out called the event his "murder show". frankly, I suspect the D of D was supposed to end similarly.

[Holy Spirit]

Diego belongs in the Complete Monster class. that was the whole point of the match on the cruise ship; he was going to blow the whole thing into non-existence for the entertainment of who-the-hell-knows how many viewers watching the broadcast. he flat-out called the event his "murder show". frankly, I suspect the D of D was supposed to end similarly.
Hey!

So what do you think about the events so far?

[The Drunkard Kid]

Diego belongs in the Complete Monster class. that was the whole point of the match on the cruise ship; he was going to blow the whole thing into non-existence for the entertainment of who-the-hell-knows how many viewers watching the broadcast. he flat-out called the event his "murder show". frankly, I suspect the D of D was supposed to end similarly.IIRC, he was hired to kill the people in the audience, and lured them in to watch an underground fight to the death between masters and their teenaged disciples while his real clients watched from safety to see it all unfold, or something like that. The fiasco at the D of D tournament was mostly Fortuna's doing, IIRC.

Also, you gotta admit that trying to charge a bunch of people an entrance fee to attend their own assassination that you also got paid for while simultaneously getting rid of at least one major rival and his student, and feeding your exhibitionist streak twice over at the same time is a pretty impressive show of efficiency. No wonder that Diego was apparently Yami's events coordinator.

[penguin-in-leather-jacket]

IIRC, he was hired to kill the people in the audience, and lured them in to watch an underground fight to the death between masters and their teenaged disciples while his real clients watched from safety to see it all unfold, or something like that. The fiasco at the D of D tournament was mostly Fortuna's doing, IIRC.
I knew all that. and yeah, Fortuna had some responsibility for the end of the D of D, but that's exactly the point -- Diego was openly irritated his spectacle got averted and we are left to wonder what he wanted to happen and how awesome it would have been.

and yeah, he's efficient and seems a funny guy on the surface, but he's clearly a hell of a lot closer to the "bad guy" end of the scale.

[Holy Spirit]

The god fist is actually not getting destroyed yet......... color me surprised, and impressed.




I loved the way he marched up the side of that wall and stared in Jenazad's face with his hands in his pockets like a boss. That's got to be a fundamental martial arts no no but... man..... if that wasn't awesome!


Go Hongo!:biggrin:

[Jmacq1]

The god fist is actually not getting destroyed yet......... color me surprised, and impressed.




I loved the way he marched up the side of that wall and stared in Jenazad's face with his hands in his pockets like a boss. That's got to be a fundamental martial arts no no but... man..... if that wasn't awesome!


Go Hongo!:biggrin:

Indeed...either Jenazad is holding back, Hongo's tougher than expected or (most likely) a mixture of both. I mean, I expected Hongo would give him a fight, but not that he would be doing quite so well. I have a feeling it may very well be Hongo's cool demeanor that wins the day for him, though I doubt he'll escape completely unscathed.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Well... that's kind of insane even by maser class standard.

[The Drunkard Kid]

That last page felt like something out of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, possibly if Jonathan Joestar had been an Araki-verse anorexic or something.

[FistofIron]

Pretty cool fight so far.

[Jmacq1]

Well... that's kind of insane even by maser class standard.

Ehn...I pretty much gave up on expecting any kind of limit to the insanity once we hit "These two guys are completely unconscious but still having a master-level fight."

[Kage Kisaragi]

I love this manga, everybody is on roids. The girls, the boys, the men, the women, even the mouse. Each page of every fight is a like motivational poster put to words. So so good. What I like most about this fight is the fact that it's Demon God Fist vs God Fist, or maybe just Demon vs God Fist. I am still kind of annoyed up set with the Miu can't be conscious when her father comes to her rescue. I mean its a great tool to keep the suspense and build more drama and tension, but man I just want her honest reaction to her father, who if no one else noticed it has a striking resemblance to her. I fully expected him to look like a HSDK version of Gohan, but I remember we saw someone like that already back in the D of D tournament.

I wish I could tell the Author to just start Miu naked in all her future fights, it would save time on his end.

[Jmacq1]

Next chapter up.

Suddenly getting the feeling the next chapter isn't going to go well for Hongo at all....

And sadly we've got to wait three weeks for it.

Though at this point I could very easily see this ending with Hongo's narrow victory, he'll just be conveniently so badly injured that he'll have to stay in-country and let the Princess who's crushing hard on him nurse him back to health. The lucky bum. :tongue:

[Dark Soul # 7]

Good start. Good start to the fight.

I'm honestly unsure of how this will go down in the end. But I am happy that for once the master fight doesn't include anyone from the Ryozanpaku.

[Holy Spirit]

Sakaki: "Tch! Good point... all Karate moves were basically created with the idea that two people would be fighting on flat ground!!"

Princess: "Does that mean Karate's weak vs Silat's all-over-the-place attacks?"

Sakaki: "I wouldn't say 'Weak!!' just, not exactly strong vs it, that's all!!" "Maybe this much." *Puts fingers together*


I wonder what martial art that guy uses. :tongue:





Seriously though, I don't like Hongo's chances...... if this guy gave the elder a tough time..... Hongo's in trouble. Either that or the gap between the Elder and the other masters isn't as big as I'm imagining.

[FistofIron]

Good start. Good start to the fight.

I'm honestly unsure of how this will go down in the end. But I am happy that for once the master fight doesn't include anyone from the Ryozanpaku.

Yeah I'm digging the hell out of this fight so far and I agree that that having a non Ryozanpaku master fight rocks. I hope we get more in the future.

[nervmeister]

Loved how Hongo just "can-canned" the shit out of that tower against gravity itself.

[Eternal Torment]

Hongo is in serious trouble right now.

Meanwhile, Jenazad gets some serious feats.

[Holy Spirit]

Hongo is in serious trouble right now.
You can say that again.

[Hazard]

Getting the feeling that Sasaki is going to have to step in anytime now, as the fight has evolved to Hongo trying his best to stay alive.

[nervmeister]

Getting the feeling that Sasaki is going to have to step in anytime now, as the fight has evolved to Hongo trying his best to stay alive.
Give it while longer. Hongou could have a secret special move up his sleeve too, you know. But then again, he probably would've used it against Sakaki in their last fight if that were the case.

[FistofIron]

Damn Jenazad!

[nervmeister]

Damn Jenazad!

That's what Hongou gets for not eating enough fruit. :tongue:

[Jmacq1]

I dunno. At this point I'm starting to think that Hongou is going to pull out the miraculous win. At the very least it seems like too much has been set up with him to kill him off now. Jenazad, on the other hand, has pretty much run his narrative course.

[FistofIron]

This fight is kicking so much ass.

[Dark Soul # 7]

This fight is kicking so much ass.That it is.

I like how even if they're both masters fighting to the death there's a pretty clear difference in skill between them. And despite that Hongou is hanging in there.

[Pong]

Full body fist!

I mean damn, that was cool!

[Jmacq1]

As cool as this fight is...I think I'm ready for it to be over. I mean, I figured it was hoping too much when it looked like Hongo had just punched straight through Jenazad's noggin, but that would've been a great ending. Now...who the heck knows? 10 more chapters of back-and-forth is going to get tiresome.

[Miburohunter929]

....Holy shit.

[Eternal Torment]

Jenazad gets serious, and then shit goes down.

I dare say he currently has the best feats out of the Nine Fists, One Shadow.

[Len Ikari145]

....Holy shit.

For once, Miburo, we actually agree on something.

Jeeeeeeeesus, Jenazad!O_o

[Nik Hasta]

And that's why Jenazad can give the Elder a hard time.

[Eternal Torment]

On one hand, I don't really want to see Hongou die.

On the other hand, I'd have to call some serious BS if he managed to win against Jenazad.

[Hazard]

Well someone is incredibly strong.

[nervmeister]

The trenchcoat and shades! They do nothing! :eek:

[Dark Soul # 7]

Wasn't Hayato also looking for Miu?

Now would be an incredibly good time for him to show up.

[Eternal Torment]

If Hongou can still fight, the worst thing that can happen is if Jenazad goes for the throws again.

If his dodges aren't fast enough, he dies. If he is fast enough, he'll open up his wounds and make them worse.

Not a win-win situation there.

[Siriel]

Now would be a good time for Hongou to remove the shades and reveal that his eyes are actually portals to a dimension of kinetic energy.

[Holy Spirit]

Jenazad is a beast.

[FistofIron]

Talk about ownage.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Now would be a good time for Hongou to remove the shades and reveal that his eyes are actually portals to a dimension of kinetic energy.

Wait, aren't they fighting at night? Maybe losing the shades might actually help him see his opponent.

[Eternal Torment]

Oh, Hongou. If you were less crazy, you could have won.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Jenazad: Let's see now. A normal person wouldn't be stupid enough to actually use his injured arm to attack in this situation. But this is a shounen manga so this punk is totally gonna do that.

[Holy Spirit]

I'll say again, Jenazad you are a beast.

They should have double teamed this dude when they had the chance.

[Eternal Torment]

Oh, look.

So that's how they plan on taking Jenazad down?

[Nik Hasta]

Akira Hongo.

He just does not give a fuck.

[Jmacq1]

Akira Hongo.

He just does not give a fuck.

So basically Akira Hongo has the superpower of "can't die if it means losing?" But then I guess he'd need something like that to keep up with Sakaki's character shield.

Hahahahahahaha.

While I'm sure it won't quite be that easy, I do kinda love Jenazad's "oh shit/WTF" look on that last panel.

[nervmeister]

So basically Akira Hongo has the superpower of "can't die if it means losing?" .
It worked for Apachai.

[Holy Spirit]

Lol. You've got to be kidding me, this better not work.

[Pong]

This is getting silly. How many chapters of "he's down, now wait he's not" in a row can there be?

I hope Akira just takes him down this time.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I am not sure whether I want this to work or not.

Regardless. Akira Hongo is DAMN awesom.

[Jmacq1]

This is getting silly. How many chapters of "he's down, now wait he's not" in a row can there be?

I hope Akira just takes him down this time.

Well, barring false advertising, the match ends next chapter.

And honestly, after that fake-out and comeback, would any result besides Hongo scraping out a win make dramatic/narrative sense? I'd say have Jenazad win to defy reader expectations, but this Manga doesn't really seem to be about messing with readers' heads that way. Not to that extent, anyhow.

Unless say, Hayato appears and Jenazad beats feet before the match can be brought to the desired conclusion, leaving Hongo to convalesce for a while (which he's probably going to do anyway, in the care of that princess that's clearly crushing enormously on him).