Bruce/Batman's age?

[yoda510]

I just finished Dark Knight Returns for the first time...and I must say awesome. Anyway at the end they say Bruce was 55. It got me wondering how old is the current DC Batman/Bruce Wayne...well if he is alive.

My only Dark Knight Returns dissappointment, No appearance of Dick. That would have been cool.

[koshunter]

I was always under the assumption that he was around 35 but I don't have a source for that.

[davepaton]

My only Dark Knight Returns dissappointment, No appearance of Dick. That would have been cool.

Dick is in the sequel The Dark Knight Strikes Again in a big (but unconventional way). However the TDKSA isn't anything like as good as TDKR so prepare to be disappointed.

Bruce is in his 30s anyway. (this is mentioned in a comic that I read really recently but I can't remember off hand which one - but the fact that he's in his 30s is pretty obvious) I reckon he much be about 34-35 now.

[DarKye]

Bruce is in his 30s anyway. (this is mentioned in a comic that I read really recently but I can't remember off hand which one

Yup. Jezebel says "You're over 30 years old" in Batman #677.

Which sounds about right, I think it's generally the best if they keep it vague.

[Mat001]

"The Dark Knight Returns" is based off the Pre-Crisis stories, where he was almost 40 by the time of "Crisis On Infinite Earths". But it was never specifically said how old he really was. "Year One" had him at 25, but later retcons put him at 21 when he became Batman. In the present day, he's between 33 and 35.

Also, TDKR probably has a bit of a gap between where the Crisis ended and where Jason Todd was killed, which lead to Bruce's retirement.

[Kiryu]

Grant explicitly has him at about 35, being Batman since he was 19 or 20.

[Vidocq]

Batman is permanitly between the ages of 29 and 39.

Y'know Frank Miller wrote DKR because he was about to turn 29 and he realized that he was about to be the same age as his childhood hero. So he made a story with him being way older than him.


Grant explicitly has him at about 35, being Batman since he was 19 or 20.

I never liked that, he seems to young to start. But I guess it's necessary for his ''everything happen'' storyline.

[Buried Alien]

I've been partial to the idea that Bruce Wayne started out as Batman (with costume and all) at around age 24, which is apparently the standard age for starting Golden/Silver Age superheroes. The continuity that works best for me, in light of all developments with Batman and his sidekicks and associates, is that sixteen years have passed and Bruce is either forty or in his early forties. Forty isn't regarded as direly old as it once was, and it's frankly more believable for Batman, with all his experiences and all, to be at, near, or slightly past forty than in his early thirties. Even Dick Grayson should be at or near thirty by this point.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[md62]

To me I thought the Batman Family ages are:

Bruce - arout 38.
Dick - about 26.
Barbara - about 29.
Tim - 17.

The question I have is how old do you think Comm Gordon & Alfred are?

I figure both are in their late 50's.

[Kiryu]

Batman is permanitly between the ages of 29 and 39.

Y'know Frank Miller wrote DKR because he was about to turn 29 and he realized that he was about to be the same age as his childhood hero. So he made a story with him being way older than him.




I never liked that, he seems to young to start. But I guess it's necessary for his ''everything happen'' storyline.

I agree it seems a bit young for him to start. 24-25 seemed best for me, because it would give him the time to travel the world and get all the training he had before he became Batman. I'm sure you could fudge it a bit, maybe Bruce skipped some grades in school and graduated early, I dunno.

[yoda510]

I would love to see a DC with an alternate continuity where characters aged and was kept track of. You could do like only the major ones, maybe Superman and Batman get their own book, then a JLA and JSA book.

[Lew Moxon]

Earth Two kind of served that function in some respects.

I think Bruce should be in his early forties.

Year One: Bruce Begins.

Year Two: Year of the Freaks

Year Three: Freaks versus ordinary criminals.

Year Four: Aftermath of year three, Dick Grayson's Parents die, he begins training as Robin.

Years Five through ten: Dick Grayson era

Year Eleven: Bruce goes solo again

Years Twelve Through thirteen: Jason Todd era.

Year 14: Bruce Wayne goes solo yet again.

Year 15 Tim Drake era begins.

Years 16 Through 17: Tim Drake era: On going.

Year One says he began when he was 25
Which makes Bruce Wayne 42.

with cousins rapidly approaching that age, I don't see why that's a stretch, or really even a problem.

(Though if it is, you could always make Grayson younger, to cut down on his time as Robin.)

[Lew Moxon]

To me I thought the Batman Family ages are:

Bruce - arout 38.
Dick - about 26.
Barbara - about 29.
Tim - 17.

The question I have is how old do you think Comm Gordon & Alfred are?

I figure both are in their late 50's.

The Gordon thing is weird, because up to a point, he seems to be about a decade older than Bruce, but lately he seems much older, mainly because while Bruce can't age, those around him can.


But, I still say there should be about a decades difference between gordon and Bruce.

Which makes him 48 by your calculation and 52 by my current one.

Alfred, is older than Gordon. Alfred helped raise Bruce. He was there when Thomas Wayne was alive.

My guess is Alfred was the same age as Dr. Thomas Wayne at the time of the latter's demise.

But at bare minumum, he should be about twenty five years older than Bruce.

So he is at youngest, in his late sixties.

And he's possibly as old as 81.

[J.R. LeMar]

I would love to see a DC with an alternate continuity where characters aged and was kept track of. You could do like only the major ones, maybe Superman and Batman get their own book, then a JLA and JSA book.

Every read these?
They're pretty good.

http://www.amazon.com/Superman-Batman-Generations-Imaginary-Elseworlds/dp/1563896052

http://www.amazon.com/Superman-Batman-Generations-Imaginary-Elseworlds/dp/1563899906/ref=pd_sim_b_1

There was also a 3rd miniseries, but you can skip that one.

[Ravenshadow]

Bruce Wayne's parents were murdered when he was 8.
He started his career as Batman at 25 (according to Year One. When did this get ret-conned?)
Dick Grayson's parents were murdered when he was about 12/13 and Bruce Wayne was Batman already, so he should be about 12/13 years older than Dick.
Dick Grayson ended his career as Robin just after turning 18. Then he made his debut as Nightwing.
Jason Todd started as Robin at 12/14 and died one year later, tops.
Tim Drake found out Batman and Robin's real identity when he was 13, and then began a training period. He didn't wear the Robin costume before 8 months at least, maybe a full year.
Then we got Knightfall, Knightquest, Zero Hour (10 years after Year One: Bruce Wayne should be 25 by now), Contagion, Cataclism, No Man's Land (formerly one full year) and One Year Later (corrently one year long)

[J.R. LeMar]

Bruce Wayne's parents were murdered when he was 8.
He started his career as Batman at 25 (according to Year One. When did this get ret-conned?)
Dick Grayson's parents were murdered when he was about 12/13 and Bruce Wayne was Batman already, so he should be about 12/13 years older than Dick.
Dick Grayson ended his career as Robin just after turning 18. Then he made his debut as Nightwing.
Jason Todd started as Robin at 12/14 and died one year later, tops.
Tim Drake found out Batman and Robin's real identity when he was 13, and then began a training period. He didn't wear the Robin costume before 8 months at least, maybe a full year.
Then we got Knightfall, Knightquest, Zero Hour (10 years after Year One: Bruce Wayne should be 25 by now), Contagion, Cataclism, No Man's Land (formerly one full year) and One Year Later (corrently one year long)


See, the problem with that, and with anytime someone tried to figure out the passage of time in comics, is that you're assuming that Real Time = Comic-Book Time. But that's not the case. Most comics, especially in this age of decompression, don't take place one month after the previous one, in longer arcs, they tend to pick up right where the last one left off. So 12 issues of a particular comic being published rarely means that 1 year has passed for the characters.

The Batman R.I.P. story may have taken several months to come out, but for Batman is was probably just a few weeks. One Year Later is the only recent time where it was specified in the stories that it was taking place one year after each comics' previous issue, but how much "time" has actually passed in the DCU since OYL? How long ago was Knightquest & Zero? And so on.

Basically, Batman is an adult. Nightwing is a young adult. Robin is a teenager. Trying to lock any of them down to an exact age just takes the fun out of it.

Just my opinion.

[Ravenshadow]

See, the problem with that, and with anytime someone tried to figure out the passage of time in comics, is that you're assuming that Real Time = Comic-Book Time. But that's not the case. Most comics, especially in this age of decompression, don't take place one month after the previous one, in longer arcs, they tend to pick up right where the last one left off. So 12 issues of a particular comic being published rarely means that 1 year has passed for the characters.

Batman was an adult in 1938.
I didn't write that he should be pushing his 90s in 2008 :tongue:

When Zero Hour come out, in 1993, Year One (the Batman's debut, Superman's first appearence) were labeled "10 years ago".

The No Man's Land storyline was described in terms of "Day one, day twentythree, day ninetythree, day two-hundred" and so on.
And One Year Later... well...

Of course we all know that Batman RIP takes place in less than a week (although the issues that make up the storyline came over a seven month period).
Nobody here wrote such a foolish thing as that "Real Time = Comic-Book Time".

[GHalecki]

I think Bruce should be pushing 45 or thereabout. He has been at least some sort of inspiration for two ot three seperate generations of heroes following him.

After he and Superman appeared, they were both very mature and compitant, even above the level of saying that they were "very VERY mature" 20 year olds. Even being VERY VERY mature and experienced 24 year olds is pushing it, but believably so.
Over the next few years they had imitators and compatriots appear, like Ollie, Barry, Hal and others. Not long after that, you had all of the sidekicks.

All of the sidekicks grew up (Roy, Dick, Wally etc) aver the course of several years. In the time it took Dick to go from novice to experienced, Bruce went from experienced to expert. Then a little time pased, and Tim comes along. Tim went from novice to experienced, where Dick went to expert, and Bruce went to master.

That is right where they are now, with Bruce at the pinnacle, Dick closing in on being just as good, and Tim is right on the cusp of becoming a master crimefighter in his own right (although actually advancing faster then his two teachers through the grace of having the benefit of both of their experiences cutting down on his learning curve).

If you think that 45 is too old for a guy to be swinging along the rooftops of Gotham city, look at some of the things that Jack LaLanne accomplished in his 40's and even later. I just looked this reference up for another thread.

http://www.jacklalanne.com/bio.htm

[lawman]

See, the problem with that, and with anytime someone tried to figure out the passage of time in comics, is that you're assuming that Real Time = Comic-Book Time. But that's not the case. Most comics, especially in this age of decompression, don't take place one month after the previous one, in longer arcs, they tend to pick up right where the last one left off. So 12 issues of a particular comic being published rarely means that 1 year has passed for the characters.
I understand that. Everyone understands that. I'm sure Ravenshadow understands that.

I like Ravenshadow's (and GHalecki's) approach to the question -- rather than just arbitrarily declaring how old Bruce "seems" or "feels," he/she examines the actual evidence from the stories about how old he was when he began and how much time has passed since then (story time, not publishing time) in order to arrive at a logical conclusion. Like, y'know, a detective. :wink:

Basically, Batman is an adult. Nightwing is a young adult. Robin is a teenager. Trying to lock any of them down to an exact age just takes the fun out of it.

Just my opinion.
Well, obviously YMMV. In my opinion, that's just annoyingly vague, and piecing together all the details of the larger fictional universe is a big part of what keeps the fun in it. (Just check out the link in my sig!)

Bruce returned to Gotham at 25 in January of the year he became the Batman ("Year One" has not been retconned). Dick was about 13 in Year 3 (i.e., about 15 years younger than Bruce), and turned 20 around the time of the original Crisis. Thus Bruce was about 35 then, well before Tim ever even entered the scene, and obviously considerable time has passed since then.

By my best calculations, the current DCU (as of R.I.P. and FC) is currently in about "Year 22," and Bruce is 47 years old. And FWIW, that "feels" right to me, too -- as one of the most experienced heroes in the world, a younger age and shorter career just don't make sense. (Hell, most of Hollywood's action heroes are markedly older than 35.)

(For anyone who wants to quibble about Bruce's physical condition, let's not forget that he was once immersed in a Lazarus Pit...)

[davepaton]

If you think that 45 is too old for a guy to be swinging along the rooftops of Gotham city, look at some of the things that Jack LaLanne accomplished in his 40's and even later. I just looked this reference up for another thread.

http://www.jacklalanne.com/bio.htm

That guys crazy. Apparently he had a cameo in the 1960s Batman movie

[Batman Fan 31593]

The Gordon thing is weird, because up to a point, he seems to be about a decade older than Bruce, but lately he seems much older, mainly because while Bruce can't age, those around him can.


But, I still say there should be about a decades difference between gordon and Bruce.

Which makes him 48 by your calculation and 52 by my current one.

Alfred, is older than Gordon. Alfred helped raise Bruce. He was there when Thomas Wayne was alive.

My guess is Alfred was the same age as Dr. Thomas Wayne at the time of the latter's demise.

But at bare minumum, he should be about twenty five years older than Bruce.

So he is at youngest, in his late sixties.

And he's possibly as old as 81.

I haven't readk DKR in a while, but isn't Gordon nearing 70 years old (mandatory retirement age)? Also, I recall Bruce being about 55 years old (the story takes place 30 years after Year 1).

So at least in the MillerUniverse Gordon is about 15 years older than Bruce.

[Ravenshadow]

Another couple of hints.

In a Devyn Greyson Story, Nightwing says he just turned 26. He's the same age of the first Teen Titans, so he's as old as Wally West and Roy Harper are.

Tim Drake celebrated his 16th birthday with his father, before Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis and, obviously, One Year Earlier.
Add the six months between the end of RIP ant its first panel, and he should be almost 18 by now.

[Lester C.]

He's in his early 30s. They accomplished this by pushing back two important dates. That age where he lost his parents, which used to be 12 or 13 now he was eight. The second age they pushed back is when he became Batman as that age was 24 and now it looks likes like he was a teen.

[Lester C.]

Don't use Tim's age as a guide. Given everything from catacyclsm to Contagion to No Man Land One Year later and everything else he should be in his 20s. Instead they just have him celebrate his 16th birthday every few years or so to keep his age locked in at 16.

Nightwing is different as he seems to be getting older while everyone around him is getting younger. Also Nightwing was listed as 26 an introduction to year one in a timeline and not in the story itself so his age prior to one year later might not be canon.

[Lew Moxon]

He's in his early 30s. They accomplished this by pushing back two important dates. That age where he lost his parents, which used to be 12 or 13 now he was eight. The second age they pushed back is when he became Batman as that age was 24 and now it looks likes like he was a teen.

That's Mr. Morrison's version. But as great as Morrison is, I'll stick with what year one says.

Morrison's version is that Bruce is 19 when he begins.

14 years minumum have passed since then.

Which makes him 33.

But it stretches belief that Bruce started at age 19.

[Lew Moxon]

I haven't readk DKR in a while, but isn't Gordon nearing 70 years old (mandatory retirement age)? Also, I recall Bruce being about 55 years old (the story takes place 30 years after Year 1).

So at least in the MillerUniverse Gordon is about 15 years older than Bruce.

You're right, he is about 15 years older in the Millerverse.
But he's still younger than Alfred.

[lawman]

He's in his early 30s. They accomplished this by pushing back two important dates. That age where he lost his parents, which used to be 12 or 13 now he was eight. The second age they pushed back is when he became Batman as that age was 24 and now it looks likes like he was a teen.
Where do you get this? Bruce was eight when his parents were shot: yes, that was established in Miller's "Batman: Year One," and has been a part of post-Crisis canon ever since. But becoming Batman as a teen?? What story has ever suggested such a thing? The same "Y1" made explicit that he was 25 the January he returned to settle in Gotham, and nothing has superseded that.

Don't use Tim's age as a guide. Given everything from catacyclsm to Contagion to No Man Land One Year later and everything else he should be in his 20s. Instead they just have him celebrate his 16th birthday every few years or so to keep his age locked in at 16.
Again, you seem to have been reading stories no one else has seen. Yes, Tim has been portrayed for several years as younger than he should logically be—I agree with that, and it's annoying. There's no way he's still high-school age. But for the record, only one story has ever actually depicted his birthday (16th or otherwise).

[lawman]

That's Mr. Morrison's version. But as great as Morrison is, I'll stick with what year one says... it stretches belief that Bruce started at age 19.
Morrison may have said this in interviews (and I agree, it defies plausibility), but that and three bucks will buy you a cup of coffee. It's never appeared in a story—and if it did, it would wreak havoc with Bruce's known history.

[Lew Moxon]

Morrison may have said this in interviews (and I agree, it defies plausibility), but that and three bucks will buy you a cup of coffee. It's never appeared in a story—and if it did, it would wreak havoc with Bruce's known history.



I think if you want a younger Bruce you can at most move it down to twenty three.

In the comics of 1939 it was mentioned that Thomas Wayne had been dead for fifteen years.

If we keep the idea of Bruce becoming Batman fifteen years after his parents were shot, then we get a Bruce who begins at age 23

My calculation suggest Bruce has been Batman for anywhere from twenty to 14 years.

Meaning, at youngest he would be thirty seven.

At oldest 43.

Which is really not that old.

Personally I feel that Bruce has been Batman for 17 years.

23 + 17= 40 year old Bruce

But it really depends on the story line.

[Lorendiac]

"The Dark Knight Returns" is based off the Pre-Crisis stories, where he was almost 40 by the time of "Crisis On Infinite Earths". But it was never specifically said how old he really was.

Why, exactly, do you say "almost 40"?

As a kid in the early 80s, I was buying "Batman" and "Detective Comics" for awhile. I didn't get the impression he was pushing 40. I was also buying "The New Teen Titans" for awhile, so I knew that Dick Grayson was supposed to be 19, and I believe it was explicitly stated once or twice that he'd been just 8 years old when he was orphaned and became Robin.

I also owned a black-and-white reprint of the "Untold Legend of the Batman" miniseries (in pocket paperback format), which provided some details about the backgrounds of Bruce and Dick, so I believe my mental timeline at the time, about a quarter-century ago, went something like this:

Bruce Wayne did his four years at college and graduated when he was (presumably) 22. He became Batman. Sometime within the first year or so on the job, he met a just-orphaned Dick Grayson and started training him to be Robin. 11 years later, we were in the "modern day" (what was "modern" around 1983, anyway), so Bruce was probably 33 or 34 at that point, judging by how Dick Grayson had aged in the years since he first arrived at Wayne Manor. By that logic, I believe I tended to assume that other old-timers in the JLA (Clark, Diana, Hal, Ollie, Barry, etc.) had all been superheroes for "the last 10 or 11 years, roughly," and were probably all somewhere in their 30s.

Although there was a problem with calculating Wonder Woman's age on the theory that she was a "veteran superhero of the last decade or so," because Donna Troy's origin story -- it was retold in an issue of "The New Teen Titans" around 1983 ("Who is Donna Troy?") -- had Diana finding Donna in a burning building when Donna was just a toddler, and in the "modern day" of the early 80s Donna, aka Wonder Girl, was supposed to be 19 years old. That would suggest Diana had been doing the Wonder Woman schtick for at least 17 or 18 years at that point -- a lot longer than I thought Bruce and Clark had been doing the superhero thing. But I wasn't a regular reader of the "Wonder Woman" title at the time, so I don't remember really caring enough to lose any sleep over that chronological anomaly.

[Batman Fan 31593]

But for the record, only one story has ever actually depicted his birthday (16th or otherwise).

True. His 16th birthday is the only one that has ever actually been depicted in story (Robin# 116, 2003). But we CAN roughly determine when his 14th and 15th birthdays took place.

Tim was 13 when introduced in A Lonely Place of Dying in 1989 and was depicted as being 13 for the first couple years he was around. Then, in Detective Comics #668 (1993), Tim receives his special drivers licencse that allows him to drive for his disabled father. We can assume this is because he has just turned 14.

Then, in Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1 (1998), in a short story featuring Tim Drake and Dick Grayson, it is refered to in dialouge that Tim has just turned 15.

[Lester C.]

Where do you get this? Bruce was eight when his parents were shot: yes, that was established in Miller's "Batman: Year One," and has been a part of post-Crisis canon ever since. But becoming Batman as a teen?? What story has ever suggested such a thing? The same "Y1" made explicit that he was 25 the January he returned to settle in Gotham, and nothing has superseded that.


Again, you seem to have been reading stories no one else has seen. Yes, Tim has been portrayed for several years as younger than he should logically be—I agree with that, and it's annoying. There's no way he's still high-school age. But for the record, only one story has ever actually depicted his birthday (16th or otherwise).

1. Grant stated many times that he thinks Batman was 19 when he started and at the moment he word is law on the character like Dennis Oneal word was back in the day.
2. Throughout Robin and other books Tim age has been a consistent 16. An example would be in Batman Family as well as story by Greg Rucka where Greg said he was 15.
3. I stand by my point that Nightwing is getting older while everyone else is getting younger.

[Lew Moxon]

1. Grant stated many times that he thinks Batman was 19 when he started and at the moment he word is law on the character like Dennis Oneal word was back in the day.
2. Throughout Robin and other books Tim age has been a consistent 16. An example would be in Batman Family as well as story by Greg Rucka where Greg said he was 15.
3. I stand by my point that Nightwing is getting older while everyone else is getting younger.

In other words, Bruces age is whatever the current writer wants it be.

But, to be fair, Morrison has not actually written that into the comic, he doesn't give Bruce an age specifically.

His Bruce is in his thirties, that's pretty much all we know.

Unless I missed a part of RIP where Morrison writes "Bruce is 36 years old." The age isn't set in stone.

[Batman Fan 31593]

Jezebel says "You're over 30 years old" in Batman #677.

Which sounds about right, I think it's generally the best if they keep it vague.

The benefit of keeping it vague is that there are so many different opinions as to what Bruce's age should be, all opinions could be valid based on the above dialouge:

Technically, 33 is "over 30 years old". 36 is "over 30 years old". 40 is "over 30 years old". 47 is "over 30 years old".

And so on. You get my point. :smile:

I am personally of the opinion that Bruce is 40 years old. I think a 19/20 starting age is way to young (considering all of the training/traveling that he went through), so I take his starting age of 25 from Year One to be valid. Grant Morrison also has stated that Bruce has been Batman for 15 years, which I do agree with. So 25+15=40.

[Chad]

Just some random information I'm going to throw out there:

Grant Morrison isn't the only writer who at some point suggested an extremely early start date for Bruce Wayne's career as Batman. In Batman 232 Batman recalls his history and remembers that "I was not yet old enough to vote" when he became Batman. Interestingly, O Neil was once asked how he saw Batman ending his career and suggested that he would retire once he reached an age at which he could no longer run as fast and jump as far as he used to. The point at which O Neil surmissed this might occur was as he approached 40.

I personally can't envision a teen-aged Batman and 25 sounds a lot more reasonable than Morrison's 19 or O Neil's 20. That being said, I'm in the middle of rewatching the first Batman serial and Lewis Wilson plays Bruce Wayne close to perfection. Wilson however, was apparently only 22 or 23 when this was filmed (I really wish I knew more about the man) and yet he looks like the ideal Wayne.

Commissioner Gordon's birthdate was given as Jan 5, 1900 in World's Finest 53 which was published in 1951. The story also revealed that he had a teen-aged son and, of course, we later discovered that he also had a daughter. So, during this period at least, it's fair to say that it could be assumed that Gordon was 50/51.

In an episode of Batman: The Animated Series, Bruce Wayne mentioned that Gordon is the same age his father would have been had he lived. I know it's not canonical yet at the same time, I can't think of anything wrong with that statement.

When he debuted, Tim Drake's age was specifically given as 13. Batman 441 I think.

Clark Kent is roughly the same age as Pete Ross who must have been no younger than 35 when he became Vice President. If Superman and Batman share the same age (and I don't know if there's ever been any evidence that they do actually) then Batman should be at least 35 as well.

[Buried Alien]

By my best calculations, the current DCU (as of R.I.P. and FC) is currently in about "Year 22," and Bruce is 47 years old. And FWIW, that "feels" right to me, too -- as one of the most experienced heroes in the world, a younger age and shorter career just don't make sense. (Hell, most of Hollywood's action heroes are markedly older than 35.)


Self-contained within the Gotham world, that works out pretty well. It gets more complicated when considering the rest of the DCU, especially the Superman/Metropolis mythos. Superman and Batman are supposedly in the same age group. Neither one is considerably older than the other. Superman is an alien who perhaps ages differently from Terrans, but his supporting cast (Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, etc.) does not. Batman has seen two Robins (Dick and Jason Todd) grow to adulthood, and one more (Tim) at the cusp of it, and yet Lois and Jimmy seem to be the same ages they were back when Superman and Batman got started.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Lew Moxon]

Clark Kent is roughly the same age as Pete Ross who must have been no younger than 35 when he became Vice President. If Superman and Batman share the same age (and I don't know if there's ever been any evidence that they do actually) then Batman should be at least 35 as well.

I think I can take 23 year old Batman when he begins.

As for Superman.

Didn't Krypton explode thousands of years ago, with Kal-El put into suspended animation.

So techinically, was Clark born thousands of years ago?

I am a Batman fan who knows only the amount that the general public would about Superman.

[Augusto]

Self-contained within the Gotham world, that works out pretty well. It gets more complicated when considering the rest of the DCU, especially the Superman/Metropolis mythos. Superman and Batman are supposedly in the same age group. Neither one is considerably older than the other. Superman is an alien who perhaps ages differently from Terrans, but his supporting cast (Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, etc.) does not. Batman has seen two Robins (Dick and Jason Todd) grow to adulthood, and one more (Tim) at the cusp of it, and yet Lois and Jimmy seem to be the same ages they were back when Superman and Batman got started.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Jimmy seems frozed in time. Back in the 90's seemed like he was evolving as a character, growing old, when he had his own tv show and all. My first impression was Jimmy was older than Dick. But in the last decade, it seems the other way.

[lawman]

1. Grant stated many times that he thinks Batman was 19 when he started and at the moment he word is law on the character like Dennis Oneal word was back in the day.
You mean the same Denny who insisted that Batman had never been in the JLA? :rolleyes:

There's a word for this sort of thing. It's called "dicta." It's not dispositive. Only what appears in a story is "law" about anything in the DCU. (And even then, you have to weigh it against other potentially inconsistent evidence.)

2. Throughout Robin and other books Tim age has been a consistent 16...
3. I stand by my point that Nightwing is getting older while everyone else is getting younger.
I'll stand by a different point (one more consistent with logic): that it's impossible for a character to age backwards (or not at all) so long as the time he's living through is moving forward at some discernible rate. Just doesn't happen that way. At whatever rate fictional time passes (and it does—this isn't Archie Comics), the characters all experience it equally. The steady progress of the shared universe trumps what any single writer may prefer.

[lawman]

Reply roundup!
Just some random information I'm going to throw out there...
Lots of interesting details (I admire your command of trivia!), but it's almost all pre-Crisis or otherwise non-canonical.

Except this:
Clark Kent is roughly the same age as Pete Ross who must have been no younger than 35 when he became Vice President. If Superman and Batman share the same age (and I don't know if there's ever been any evidence that they do actually) then Batman should be at least 35 as well.
Actually, Clark is a bit younger than Bruce: per MOS Annual #4, he turned 25 in December of the year ("Year One") that Bruce turned 26.

But yeah, Pete (and Clark) must have been at a bare minimum 35 (I actually estimate 39) when Luthor was elected, per the U.S. Constitution, and Bruce a bit older. And that was several years ago, even in DCU time.

Self-contained within the Gotham world, that works out pretty well. It gets more complicated when considering the rest of the DCU... Lois and Jimmy seem to be the same ages they were back when Superman and Batman got started.
Not really. Take a look at Kurt Busiek's recent Jimmy Olsen origin story (in Superman #665) -- Jimmy was apparently about 10 when he first met Superman and co., and that was after Supes was already in the JLA (hence, c. Year Three, given post-IC history).

Lois? Well, she's just naturally good at keeping her youthful looks. :rolleyes: Seriously, she's a bit younger than Clark anyway, and there's really nothing about her appearance that can't be covered by artistic license.

Didn't Krypton explode thousands of years ago, with Kal-El put into suspended animation.

So techinically, was Clark born thousands of years ago?

No, you're probably thinking of a line from the movie version. In the comics, as established about 20 years ago, Krypton exploded c. 1938 (an obvious hat-tip to the debut of Action #1). Kal-El still experienced some suspended animation before reaching Earth, though.

Jimmy seems frozed in time. Back in the 90's seemed like he was evolving as a character, growing old, when he had his own tv show and all. My first impression was Jimmy was older than Dick. But in the last decade, it seems the other way.
Yeah, that's annoying. Granted most of the supporting cast was handled better back then, but Jimmy's a particularly egregious case (with the exception of Kurt's recent stories). If they're going to keep him around (why, aside from nostalgia/inertia?), they should at least do something interesting with him—which means letting the character change and grow. For example, he's supposed to have the potential to be a great journalist "someday." It's long past time we started to see evidence of that.

[dancj]

I'll stand by a different point (one more consistent with logic): that it's impossible for a character to age backwards (or not at all) so long as the time he's living through is moving forward at some discernible rate. Just doesn't happen that way. At whatever rate fictional time passes (and it does—this isn't Archie Comics), the characters all experience it equally. The steady progress of the shared universe trumps what any single writer may prefer.

Jimmy Olsen ages backwards every couple of years - and I'm pretty sure if you compare characters like Changeling, Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jay Garrrick, Wildcat etc, you'll find they don't all experience time equally either.

[lawman]

Jimmy Olsen ages backwards every couple of years - and I'm pretty sure if you compare characters like Changeling, Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jay Garrrick, Wildcat etc, you'll find they don't all experience time equally either.
Based on what?...

Yes, there are occasional inconsistent references in some stories. That sort of thing is inevitable in any complex fictional universe, especially by multiple authors (compare Star Trek), but even when it's the work of a single author (compare Sherlock Holmes). But it's inadvertent; it's a rare story indeed that explicitly violates internal story logic. As readers, then, we have a choice of how to construe such things: we can make assumptions that defy logic and yank us out of the story ("Jimmy ages backwards", "characters don't experience time equally"), or we can make assumptions that logically reconcile the inconsistencies and facilitate an internally coherent fictional reality, and thus preserve the suspension of disbelief. For obvious reasons, I prefer the latter approach.

[dancj]

Obviously at any given point, the current continuity will have consistent aging for all of the characters and wotnot, but you just have to look at a current Superman book and one from 20 years ago to see that Jimmy Olsen was much older then - he's younger than that now.

[Jim Thompson]

Hard to say, but I always imagined he was in his mid-to late 30s.

[Lurch]

Just to satisfy certain continuity concerns such as key events in the characters fictional lives and the length of time those events would conceivably take, I always think of Batman and Superman as being in their mid-thirties. This would allow Batman to have been in his early twenties when he took in an 11 year old Dick Grayson, and allows Grayson to now be around 23-24 years old. If you shorten the length of Jason Todd's time as Robin then this works out well.

I also put certain other heroes, like Green Arrow, Elongated Man,and Aquaman as being in their mid-forties, with others like Hal Jordan and Black Canary falling somewhere in their late thirties. (Discounting all the dying and rebirths and such.) Black Canary should be in her mid thirties, but has had a longer career than either Batman or Superman because she started at age 17 or 18.

I think this works well if you use a fifteen year time-line as opposed to the ten or twelve year one that DC espouses. And as a side note, I just don't see Bruce Wayne cramming all his travel and training into the short time period before he turned nineteen, but in order for him to stay in his mid-thirties perpetually that's another leap we have to take.

[lawman]

And as a side note, I just don't see Bruce Wayne cramming all his travel and training into the short time period before he turned nineteen, but in order for him to stay in his mid-thirties perpetually that's another leap we have to take.
Yeah, see, to me that's just absurd. "Let's eviscerate his past in order to keep him pointlessly, perpetually young?"

I can imagine the marketing rationale for it, but there's absolutely no good story rationale.

[Lurch]

Yeah, see, to me that's just absurd. "Let's eviscerate his past in order to keep him pointlessly, perpetually young?"

I can imagine the marketing rationale for it, but there's absolutely no good story rationale.


I agree completely, but I'm willing to accept it. I just edit my knowledge of Batman's history so that it somehow fits and I'm able to still enjoy the stories. Just realize that if we were to interpret these many events in an orderly fashion to fit them into the Batman's fictional life, that he would likely already be older than he was in "The Dark Knight Returns". It really all just comes down to what makes for good storytelling, and a 47 year old Batman just doesn't cut it. A non-human or meta character could be active in that manner at that age, but Batman is just human, and even with a suspension of disbelief it would sort of break down the characters own fictional rules for him to be fully active at a more advanced age. If I were writing a future Batman story, I would certainly have him at least semi-retired by his late forties. The human body can only take so much punishment.

[lawman]

I agree completely, but I'm willing to accept it... a 47 year old Batman just doesn't cut it. A non-human or meta character could be active in that manner at that age, but Batman is just human, and even with a suspension of disbelief it would sort of break down the characters own fictional rules for him to be fully active at a more advanced age. If I were writing a future Batman story, I would certainly have him at least semi-retired by his late forties. The human body can only take so much punishment.
I can't really agree with that. After all, Hollywood has never seemed to have a problem making (nor audiences accepting) action films featuring heroes with a lot of mileage. Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jackie Chan. Bruce Willis was 52 when he took tons o' punishment in Die Hard 4 last year. Robert (Iron Man) Downey is 43. Our new James Bond, Daniel Craig, is 40.

And that's for live action, where suspension of disbelief (even with special effects) won't generally stretch quite as far as for pen and ink. (And someone else has already posted about Jack LaLanne as a real-life example of aging gracefully in peak condition. I'd also mention George Foreman, who won the world heavyweight title at 45 and defended it until the age of 48.)

And none of them have ever had the benefit of a Lazarus Pit, either. :wink:

[Lew Moxon]

The bare mininum age I can see Bruce being is 37. The earliest I see him starting is age 23. Since the 39' comic directly said the Wayne murders occured "15 years ago."

So 8+15=23

23 years old.


Then you could, if you aged the Robins ever so slightly, ultracompress the career into 14 years.

Which would make Bruce 37.

Of course, I think his career has been considerably longer than that.

17 years would be my corrent estimate.

Which makes him 40.

Still 6 or 7 years away from mandatory retirement age.

I see no reason why "37" would be okay, and 40 is unbelievable.

late forties/fifty? a bit old, but 40 -43? not so much.

But even so, the question arises, would he retire in the first place.

Old silver age Bruce would

frank miller Bruce, no way, he keeps fighting until his body breaks on him, or failing that continues the war via proxies, running the show from behind the scenes.

Unless he gets well again, which he hasn't been since that cold night at the movies.
(This incidently, is why Bruce must never be settled down with a woman, be she Selina or Talia.)
In which case, bye bye Batman.

[Lew Moxon]

I reread the Morrison interview in which he lays out his "Batman at 19" idea. He says that Bruce has been doing this for 15 years.

Which, by my Batman started at 23 idea, would make Bruce Wayne 38.

Still viable. IMO

[Batman Fan 31593]

I reread the Morrison interview in which he lays out his "Batman at 19" idea. He says that Bruce has been doing this for 15 years.

Which, by my Batman started at 23 idea, would make Bruce Wayne 38.

Still viable. IMO

I did a google search. Here's a link to the Morrison interview so everyone can read.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=147734

[frostedone]

For those who are 40 or above, is that age really that bad?

Look at someone like Hugh Jackman, he is 40 and still in really great physical shape.

We are told that Baman constantly exercises, and is on a very specialized diet, so we can assume that he is in amazing shape, his arteries are not clogged, etc.

Does turning 40 mean you are really out of your prime? What does 40 do that is so bad for comic book heroes? Does turning 40 give you health problems or something?

I am only 21, but support the idea of Batman being at least 40.

[Lew Moxon]

For those who are 40 or above, is that age really that bad?

Look at someone like Hugh Jackman, he is 40 and still in really great physical shape.

We are told that Baman constantly exercises, and is on a very specialized diet, so we can assume that he is in amazing shape, his arteries are not clogged, etc.

Does turning 40 mean you are really out of your prime? What does 40 do that is so bad for comic book heroes? Does turning 40 give you health problems or something?

I am only 21, but support the idea of Batman being at least 40.

Once you've got Bruce at 35 or older, Bruce at forty becomes fine.

[nepenthes]

I always thought he was more like 70. haw haw haw

[frostedone]

Maybe the aging process is slower in the DCU. Like 60 is the new 35, with a few gray hairs.

[Inverted]

Like someone else did lets point to James Bond as an example. Daniel Craig is around 40. In current continuity(and in older Bind films I think) James is 40. He achieves 00 status at around 37. Can't remember where I read that but its not hard to believe.

1)He exercises, and maintains a diet. Most likely since he is primarily into martial arts, gymnastics, and weight training - he's probably done some yoga also. There you have the combo to near human perfection.

2) He fights crime everynight. I use to box, and have practice MA. Sparring is one hell of a workout.

Then again these are obvious signs of overtraining, and not good for the body. But hey its a comic.

[frostedone]

Like someone else did lets point to James Bond as an example. Daniel Craig is around 40. In current continuity(and in older Bind films I think) James is 40. He achieves 00 status at around 37. Can't remember where I read that but its not hard to believe.

1)He exercises, and maintains a diet. Most likely since he is primarily into martial arts, gymnastics, and weight training - he's probably done some yoga also. There you have the combo to near human perfection.

2) He fights crime everynight. I use to box, and have practice MA. Sparring is one hell of a workout.

Then again these are obvious signs of overtraining, and not good for the body. But hey its a comic.


What are obvious signs of overtraining?

[Lester C.]

Maybe the aging process is slower in the DCU. Like 60 is the new 35, with a few gray hairs.

For the most part the technology of the Earth in DCU is far more advanced than what you would find on our Earth. Look at America. From 1900 to 2008 the average life expectancy went from 40 to 68.