Two questions about Journey

[david r]

I have two questions about the band Journey:

1) In 1986, Journey fired their drummer, Steve Smith, and bass player & founding member, Ross Valory. Does anyone know *why* these two were fired? At the height of Journey's popularity?

2) The 1981 album Escape hit #1, with hits like "Open Arms" and "Don't Stop Believing." I read it's considered one of the worst #1 albums of all time. I've never heard it, is it really that bad?

[Ontir]

I don't know the "why" of the firings, but I do know that my brother attended a drum clinic with Smith in the mid-80's, in which he was asked why he was no longer with Journey? His reply was that Steve Perry was a dick!

While Journey was a very successful band, they were a very slickly produced band, and considered pre-digested by many. They were, to some extent, "the Monkees" of the 80's.

[howyadoin]

2) The 1981 album Escape hit #1, with hits like "Open Arms" and "Don't Stop Believing." I read it's considered one of the worst #1 albums of all time. I've never heard it, is it really that bad?Depends on how you feel about Jefferson Starship, I guess.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I have two questions about the band Journey:

1) In 1986, Journey fired their drummer, Steve Smith, and bass player & founding member, Ross Valory. Does anyone know *why* these two were fired? At the height of Journey's popularity?

If you watch the VH1 "Behind the Music" from a few years back.... Steve Perry basically did a power play and forced members in and out. Perry was the Axl Rose of his day and when he said he wanted them gone....well Shon and company listened.

Perry was the voice and well...heart of the band. Their biggest success was with Steve Perry. So he would push and hire/fire guys at will....


2) The 1981 album Escape hit #1, with hits like "Open Arms" and "Don't Stop Believing." I read it's considered one of the worst #1 albums of all time. I've never heard it, is it really that bad?

Not really....Journey was considered "Corporate Rock" like Styxx , Boston and other bands of that era. Because the music was so slick produced , wasn't offensive to parents and was just real catchy fun shit. They hated it since it altered the image of Hard Rock for years.

I love Journey. Its good to see em back in action and they finally did a smart thing....they too went the Eagles , AC/DC and Guns n Roses route....and did great sales from it. Arnel Pineda sounds pretty damn good.

[Ontir]

Depends on how you feel about Jefferson Starship, I guess.

There are a FEW good Starhip songs. I still love "Find Your Way Back."

[leonaozaki]

There are a FEW good Starhip songs. I still love "Find Your Way Back."

I kind of liked Blows Against the Empire. It wasn't in the same universe, quality wise, as Volunteers or After Bathing at Baxter's, but, still, not bad.

rob

[Buried Alien]

While Journey was a very successful band, they were a very slickly produced band, and considered pre-digested by many. They were, to some extent, "the Monkees" of the 80's.

The Monkees have enjoyed something of a critical reassessment and rehabilitation in recent years. That has yet to happen for Journey.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Ontir]

Well there were a lot of talented people involved in the Monkees, before and after "the Pre-Fab Four" finally started recording themselves.

[Athena Bast]

2) The 1981 album Escape hit #1, with hits like "Open Arms" and "Don't Stop Believing." I read it's considered one of the worst #1 albums of all time. I've never heard it, is it really that bad?

I had the video game based on that album on the Atari.:biggrin:

[bert]

There are a FEW good Starhip songs. I still love "Find Your Way Back."

Ah, but that's not "Starship". .that's "Jefferson Starship"

I'm just guessing, but I think Howy is specifically referring to "We Built This City". . which I believe was a #1 album for Starship.

[Buried Alien]

Well there were a lot of talented people involved in the Monkees, before and after "the Pre-Fab Four" finally started recording themselves.

Mike Nesmith was a very good songwriter.

Davy Jones and Micky Dolenz turned out to be pretty good singers.

Peter Tork was a good guitarist, although they rarely let him exhibit his talent.

Whoever selected the songs/commissioned the outside songwriters had a good ear too.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Mike Nesmith was a very good songwriter.

Davy Jones and Micky Dolenz turned out to be pretty good singers.

Peter Tork was a good guitarist, although they rarely let him exhibit his talent.

Whoever selected the songs/commissioned the outside songwriters had a good ear too.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Ohh yeah ....whats a shame is they like Journey will never be in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. RS hates Journey and the guy over the magazine is over the Hall of Fame...so thats sadly strikes against both bands.

[howyadoin]

Ah, but that's not "Starship". .that's "Jefferson Starship"

I'm just guessing, but I think Howy is specifically referring to "We Built This City". . which I believe was a #1 album for Starship.You are correct, sir.

[Jonathan Bogart]

Ohh yeah ....whats a shame is they like Journey will never be in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. RS hates Journey and the guy over the magazine is over the Hall of Fame...so thats sadly strikes against both bands.
Why is that sad? In what universe is failing to receive a meaningless award something to be ashamed of?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Why is that sad? In what universe is failing to receive a meaningless award something to be ashamed of?

I think any band like a Kiss , Journey...Monkees ...if there is a Hall of Fame... need to be in it. Be like if the NFL told a Tom Brady or Brett Favre "Ok look you guys aren't liked by us..so fuck you both. No way your coming in."

If there is a Hall of Fame... it should have acts that did do things and did them well.

[40footwolf]

I'm sorry, but KISS, Journey and the Monkees are all bands that shouldn't even be in the same STATE as the Rock and Roll Hal of Fame.

[Buried Alien]

Something about a "Hall of Fame" isn't very rock 'n roll to begin with, but there is one.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[howyadoin]

I'm sorry, but KISS, Journey and the Monkees are all bands that shouldn't even be in the same STATE as the Rock and Roll Hal of Fame.I gotta agree with this.
Something about a "Hall of Fame" isn't very rock 'n roll to begin with...And with this, too.

[Ontir]

Ah, but that's not "Starship". .that's "Jefferson Starship"

I'm just guessing, but I think Howy is specifically referring to "We Built This City". . which I believe was a #1 album for Starship.

Before Paul Kantner sued the "Jefferson" off of them, we all called the band "Starship."
That's what I meant by Find Your Way Back ~ "Starship."

RE: the Monkees, that's what I meant, before they allowed the band members everyone saw to record, back when they were "Milli Vanilli-ing" all over the place, people like Don Kirschner and Glen Campbell were part of the team that made Monkee music.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'm sorry, but KISS, Journey and the Monkees are all bands that shouldn't even be in the same STATE as the Rock and Roll Hal of Fame.

Really why ? Did they not rock enough well to be there ? Did they not sell and enertain thousands well enough ? Or is it a personal reason ?

Something about a "Hall of Fame" isn't very rock 'n roll to begin with, but there is one.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Yeah I'm no big KISS fan at all. I just find it weird that a band like KISS that has impacted so much and became a merchindising brand isn't in this Rock n Roll Hall of Fame.

[leonaozaki]

Something about a "Hall of Fame" isn't very rock 'n roll to begin with, but there is one.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Something else to blame Jann Wenner for, I guess.

rob

[howyadoin]

Is there no end to Jann Wenner's sins?

[leonaozaki]

Is there no end to Jann Wenner's sins?

Not to me.

Although, to be fair, a few years back I ended up watching the induction ceremony out of boredom. Patti Smith and R.E.M. were being inducted and they were both pretty amazing. In particular, I remember Eddie Vedder inducting R.E.M. with a very moving speech and that R.E.M.'s performance was flat out incredible, since they were playing with Bill Berry! That was great.

rob

[Deathstroke]

REM is in the Hall of Fame and Black Sabbath isn't?

Not very ROCK AND ROLL to me.

[Deathstroke]

And just for the sake of identification, I happen to enjoy the hell out of Journey through the Steve Perry years.

I didn't get the new stuff with Augieri, thank god, he can't sing for shit. I heard him live and I can carry a tune better. And I'm tone deaf.

[leonaozaki]

REM is in the Hall of Fame and Black Sabbath isn't?

Not very ROCK AND ROLL to me.

Says the Journey fan.

rob

[SUPERECWFAN1]

REM is in the Hall of Fame and Black Sabbath isn't?

Not very ROCK AND ROLL to me.

Didn't they induct them in 2005 ? And this was after Ozzie had crossed over so much to the mainstream when he brought it up for years people finally had to make Wenner put them in.

According to the Wiki article The Dave Clark 5 actually had more votes than Grand Master Flash & the Furious 5 in 2007.

from a Fox News article and Wenner denied them since he felt that he needed a rap act in to not look bad. After this controversy he pushed them into the Hall of Fame in 2008.

And just for the sake of identification, I happen to enjoy the hell out of Journey through the Steve Perry years.

I didn't get the new stuff with Augieri, thank god, he can't sing for shit. I heard him live and I can carry a tune better. And I'm tone deaf.

Pineda sounds a lot like Perry. Its scary because if you didn't really pay attention he could pass as Steve Perry ! I wonder if Perry should take a DNA test...:tongue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aCBB670Kwg

[Deathstroke]

Says the Journey fan.

rob

Do I not feel the love?

[The Black Guardian]

I'm sorry, but KISS, Journey and the Monkees are all bands that shouldn't even be in the same STATE as the Rock and Roll Hal of Fame.
If they're going to induct Madonna, there is zero reason why Kiss, Journey, and the Monkees shouldn't be. Not that it matters, anyway, because its lame.

Anyway, the only reason I've ever read for Ross Valory and Steve Smith's firing was artistic differences, but I've never read details of what that meant.

[david r]

So, is there any chance that Steve Perry will be asked back into Journey? He's had his hip surgery, hasn't he?

[howyadoin]

Do I not feel the love?Hah. I know I don't.

[leonaozaki]

If they're going to induct Madonna, there is zero reason why Kiss, Journey, and the Monkees shouldn't be. Not that it matters, anyway, because its lame.

True.



Anyway, the only reason I've ever read for Ross Valory and Steve Smith's firing was artistic differences, but I've never read details of what that meant.

Artistic differences? In Journey? Now that's funny.

rob

[leonaozaki]

Do I not feel the love?

For Journey?

Hell and no.

rob

[SUPERECWFAN1]

So, is there any chance that Steve Perry will be asked back into Journey? He's had his hip surgery, hasn't he?

Its unlikely....much like Velvet Revolver is gonna name an unknown who has talent (His vocals sound like a mix of Josh Todd/Axl Rose...but younger ) , Journey has their new talented young singer. Its Arnel Pineda. The guy is young and sings like Steve Perry....and the band just had a platinum album sold thru Wal-Mart !

[Deathstroke]

Its unlikely....much like Velvet Revolver is gonna name an unknown who has talent (His vocals sound like a mix of Josh Todd/Axl Rose...but younger ) , Journey has their new talented young singer. Its Arnel Pineda. The guy is young and sings like Steve Perry....and the band just had a platinum album sold thru Wal-Mart !


And Perry has continually stated he has no interest in going back on the road.

[Nate Grey]

And just for the sake of identification, I happen to enjoy the hell out of Journey through the Steve Perry years.

Same, so I have a lot to reply to here. :biggrin:


2) The 1981 album Escape hit #1, with hits like "Open Arms" and "Don't Stop Believing." I read it's considered one of the worst #1 albums of all time. I've never heard it, is it really that bad?

Considered worse by whom, I might ask? Since you said you read that. Everyone's taste is subjective, of course, but I personally don't consider it one of the worst #1 albums of all times. A tad overrated, but not worst by a long shot.

To me its one of the albums I can't listen to all the way through. I listen to my three songs, "Don't Stop Believin'", "Escape", and "Open Arms" and move on.

Raised on Radio, however, is what I consider one of Journey's best albums, if not THE best (Perry years, that is). Besides the title track, I love the whole album and play it often.

I had the video game based on that album on the Atari.:biggrin:

Heh, me too. And that was before I even know what a "Journey" was (I was 5), I just knew it was a fun game. Always wondered why the Kool-Aid man was in it, though. lol

Oh yeah, for those wondering what the heck we're talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCczMXTtV1Y

I didn't get the new stuff with Augieri, thank god, he can't sing for shit. I heard him live and I can carry a tune better. And I'm tone deaf.

I didn't like the Augeri stuff myself. I like Pineda, though, but probably cause he sounds more like Perry (or exactly like Perry) than Agueri ever did.


Pineda sounds a lot like Perry. Its scary because if you didn't really pay attention he could pass as Steve Perry ! I wonder if Perry should take a DNA test...:tongue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aCBB670Kwg

Heh. :biggrin:

So, is there any chance that Steve Perry will be asked back into Journey? He's had his hip surgery, hasn't he?

Nope. But I think they're at least cordial with one another, like all "no hard feelings".

And Perry has continually stated he has no interest in going back on the road.

Not even as a solo? Cause I wish he'd at least do that, throw some of his fans a bone with a new solo album.

[Deathstroke]

Not even as a solo? Cause I wish he'd at least do that, throw some of his fans a bone with a new solo album.

I haven't seen anything online anywhere that shows he has the slightest inclination in doing any new music.

[Alex]

Ah, but that's not "Starship". .that's "Jefferson Starship"

I'm just guessing, but I think Howy is specifically referring to "We Built This City". . which I believe was a #1 album for Starship.

And one of the worst songs ever written.
For a while, the last 5 years have given me so many songs worse then that, but it was holding onto that bar for a long time.

[david r]

Thanks for all the Journey responses. Here is another question: How do their newer albums measure up to the Steve Perry years? CDs like Arrival and Generations?

[howyadoin]

Thanks for all the Journey responses. Here is another question: How do their newer albums measure up to the Steve Perry years? CDs like Arrival and Generations? Heh. Are you writing a term paper?

[Ottmeister X]

I'm a Journey fan. Steve Perry had one of the better rock voices in music, in my opinion.

Journey also started out as a fusion band and weren't a bunch of musical hacks. Santana wanted Schon for his band way back when, but Schon decided to stick it out with Journey.

The addition of Perry kind of changed their direction away from fusion. Doesn't hurt that they made millions and had a plethora of panties thrown at them.

[Valmore]

Artistic differences? In Journey? Now that's funny.

Actually... Journey started out as a Santana-wannabe kind of band. Gregg Rollie actually played with Santana and is in the Hall of Fame as a member of that band. They pretty much had Steve Perry forced on them to sell more albums because the guy could actually sing. (And give him credit, you may not *like* what he sings, but the man did have an incredible voice.) The addition of Perry changed the musical stylings of the band which eventually led to firings and departures over the differences.

I'll admit I enjoy listening to their music, but I wouldn't call it high art or anything. They played standard, catchy, arena rock tunes and they did it well. Not something I'd want in the Hall of Fame, but then, does Rock and Roll need a Hall of Fame?

[pariah-1972]

I love listening to Journey on the radio and they had great singles but i don't really see them being worthy of rock and roll hall of fame since they didn't do anything groundbreaking.

I bought there box set cause i wanted to hear something other than the singles and i loved the cover artwork but they were def a singles band.

[The Black Guardian]

There are too many in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame already that don't belong and too many that aren't that do belong to be using "groundbreaking" as a requirement. Frankly, it's almost a better honor to not be inducted at this point.

[pariah-1972]

There are too many in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame already that don't belong and too many that aren't that do belong to be using "groundbreaking" as a requirement. Frankly, it's almost a better honor to not be inducted at this point.Who would you say don/'t belong and what requirements do you think should be required if you have an issue with groundbreaking?