Advice on Marvel Essential/Showcase Presents [Archive]

destro

11-20-2008, 11:54 PM

My local comic book store is having a big sale tomorrow and I want to pick up one Marvel Essential volume and one Showcase Presents volume..

I'm looking for some advice on what to get. I want something different, for both choices. What I'm NOT interested in: Spider Man, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Hulk... That doesn't mean it can't be Superhero related, I just want something off beat.

For DC I was considering The War That Time Forgot or Adam Strange..For Marvel I was thinking Tomb of Dracula..how are these?

Any other suggestions would be appreciated as well, thanks!

Pil

11-21-2008, 01:22 AM

Tomb of Dracula is great. That one I can recommend.

Other than that I really enjoyed Phantom Stranger, especially vol. 1, and Essential Tales of the Zombie.

Pól Rua

11-21-2008, 03:34 AM

For DC I was considering The War That Time Forgot or Adam Strange..For Marvel I was thinking Tomb of Dracula..how are these?

Both awesome suggestions.
'Tomb of Dracula' is a lock. Damn fine comics.

Of the two, even though I'm a massive Adam Strange fan, I'd probably go with 'War That Time Forgot'.
'Unknown Soldier' or 'Enemy Ace' are also good.

dan bailey

11-21-2008, 05:57 AM

I'd put Adam Strange way above War That Time Forgot, personally. I like the latter, but the stories are heavily formulaic. (Same goes for the otherwise excellent Enemy Ace. If one were to formulate a drinking game whereby one takes a slug every time Von Hammer invokes the killing skies or talks to that wolf, one would be blotto inside an hour.)

As for superhero-related -- Teen Titans or Metamorpho, maybe.

For Marvel -- Tomb of Dracula is a great idea. Man-Thing or Howard the Duck come immediately to mind as well. Within the superhero realm, The Defenders pretty much defines "offbeat," starting around vol 2, courtesy of Steve Gerber.

Lone Ranger

11-21-2008, 07:33 AM

I agree with much of what's been said:

Unknown Solider and Enemy Ace are must-haves from the Showcase line. House of Mystery and House of Secrets are also great books. Don't miss the Jonah Hex books!

If you are familiar with the Doom Patrol - I recommend that one, too! Definitely offbeat.Ooops I just notice that that one's not out until 2009 - I can't believe they've held of on that one!

Looking at Marvel - I've got the 4 Tomb of Dracula volumes and those are great choices, Man-Thing and Zombie are also solid picks. You're best bet in the offbeat hero category is Luke Cage. I agree with Dan re. Defenders.

Slam_Bradley

11-21-2008, 08:21 AM

There's nothing bad I can say about Tomb of Dracula, other than it really gets clicking in Volume 2 when the Wolfman/Colan/Palmer team are all settled in.

As far as Showcase...I'll echo Unknown Soldier or Enemy Ace, though my favorite single volume is Jonah Hex.

dan bailey

11-21-2008, 08:32 AM

You're best bet in the offbeat hero category is Luke Cage. I agree with Dan re. Defenders.

And I'll return the favor & note that Luke Cage occurred to me as well.

Slam_Bradley

11-21-2008, 08:37 AM

And I'll return the favor & note that Luke Cage occurred to me as well.

Luke Cage was my favorite second-string super-hero Essential.

Rev. Calibos

11-21-2008, 08:56 AM

Because of the price and the sheer variety of what's been collected I don't think you can go wrong with whatever you pick.

Careful though, once you start it's like sweet, sweet crack cocaine, if you pick up Tomb of Dracula # 1 you'll start thinking about volumes 2-4.....then you'll start looking at Monster of Frankenstein....then you'll start thinking about Werewolf by Night, etc.

It's a vicious cycle, lol.

If I had to pick one from the non-super hero variety I'd definitely pick up Tomb of Dracula #1 from Marvel and either Sgt. Rock or Unknown Soldier from DC.

Scott Shaw!

11-21-2008, 10:17 AM

In the DC column, don't overlook SHOWCASE PRESENTS CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN Volume 1, which includes all of the Jack Kirby stories, some of them inked by Wallace Wood. Great non-superhero stuff that comes across like "What If DC Published FANTASTIC FOUR?"

Aloha,

Scott!

dan bailey

11-21-2008, 11:10 AM

Indeed -- what Scott! said. Challengers is one of the best yet. Neglecting to mention it was pure oversight on my part.

spoon_jenkins

11-21-2008, 11:16 AM

I've only read the first volume of Tomb of Dracula, which I'd highly recommend.

Slam_Bradley

11-21-2008, 11:38 AM

I've only read the first volume of Tomb of Dracula, which I'd highly recommend.

I really does get better as it goes on Spoon. You need to move forward to more ToD.

FanboyStranger

11-21-2008, 12:23 PM

You really can't go wrong with Tomb of Dracula, but if you want offbeat, you should really take a look at Essential Man-Thing, vol. 1. (Maybe Essential Killraven and Essential Howard the Duck as well.)

I'd pick up Showcase Presents Jonah Hex from DC, although I liked quite a bit of Phantom Stranger (some of the Kanigher stories with the gang of kids have not aged well.)

spoon_jenkins

11-21-2008, 12:30 PM

I really does get better as it goes on Spoon. You need to move forward to more ToD.
Oh, I'm definitely moving forward. I already own volume 2. But because I stockpile Essentials like canned goods in a fallout shelter, there's a delay between purchasing and reading. ToD vol. 1 is actually the last Essential I've read. I'm working on some Spider-Man now, but I'll probably get back to ToD sometime soon.

destro

11-21-2008, 01:45 PM

Thanks for the responses everyone. I ended up getting Defenders volume 2, Tomb of Dracula volume 1 and the 1st twelve issues of the 80s Suicide Squad series (on a whim). Quite happy with my purchases!

Jamie

11-21-2008, 01:49 PM

I'm going to come totally out of left field and says The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. Primarily the Deluxe Edition, because you get the most depth from that one out of all four series.

Bicorn Halfelven

11-21-2008, 02:46 PM

I second the Sgt Rock volume... great Joe Kubert work!

I've never been a huge fan of the b&w reprint volumes like this, but I started getting the Savage Sword of Conan reprints Dark Horse started putting out, and well... it's been a slippery slope. I have yet to buy any Essentials, but I almost bought the first couple Tomb of Draculas at the store today. I ended up with the second House of Mystery and the first House of Secrets volumes. I am a happy camper.

Leocomix

11-22-2008, 01:35 AM

I agree with nearly all recommendations so far and your own choice is excellent as well.
War That Time Forgot may be formulaic but it's well written and drawn and everybody loves GIs blowing up dinosaurs.

War DC titles are all enjoyable.
Beyond that, offbeat DC titles are still few but there is Metal Men, and Metamorpho (both are a DC reaction to the Marvel titles), Phantom Stranger (beautiful Jim Aparo work),
For Challengers, stick to volume one.

For Marvel, there is nearly too much choice. Tomb of Dracula is one of their best titles of the 70s. It started well, got better and better still before it lost its steam toward the end.
It's difficult to find volumes that are consistently good from start to end. Most often there are great runs followed by no so great ones.
Defenders Vol 2 and 3, for the Steve Gerber issues (in both) and the Scorpio saga (in 3), are must reads.
The Dr. Strange volumes have very good parts as well (Ditko, Thomas/Colan, Brunner)
Iron Fist Vol 1 is a good choice, it has the same Claremont/Byrne team that made X-Men such a success.
Man-Thing is the most off-beat, but strongly recommended.
Killraven is a personal favourite. Once Don McGregor and Craig Russel are on board, it's magnificent.
Marvel Horror Vol 1 and 2 won't please everybody but offer you a larger choice than Tomb of Dracula since they collect more than one character.

earl

11-22-2008, 09:07 AM

My suggestion is to maybe take a look at one of the Dark Horse Savage Sword of Conan reprints if you are looking for something different. It is in the same kind of format as the Marvel Essential and DC Showcase books.

There are all sorts of classic comic artists like John Buscema and Neal Adams that did work on those Conan issues and the stories are generally pretty good.

Greg Hatcher

11-22-2008, 09:36 AM

Essential Marvel Horror volume one, with the Son of Satan and Satana, is a lot of fun and definitely off the beaten track. Volume two with Brother Voodoo, the Living Mummy, and Gabriel Devil-Hunter is a hoot, too, though neither volume equals Tomb of Dracula when it was cooking. Still, they're cool books to have.

Of the DC Showcases, I think I'd be torn between Jonah Hex and the Unknown Soldier for first place, and Phantom Stranger for second. The other war books like Sgt. Rock or Enemy Ace or Haunted Tank are all classics but I think the Showcase format hurts them, the stories look terribly repetitive when you read them all in a row. Robert Kanigher was not shy about recycling.

kozmo

11-25-2008, 10:59 AM

If Essential Marvel Horror could have put Son of Satan and the Living Mummy in the same volume, it would be a truly essential purchase. (and if there was room, the Scarecrow stories from volume 2). The other series in these two volumes just never did anything for me. Son of Satan in volume 1 was a favorite series for me when it came out, even if I had to hide the issues so my mother didn't see the title. or maybe it was because I had to hide them... The Living Mummy in volume 2 of Essential Marvel Horror is a solid little secondary series. I didn't see all the issues when they came out, but I enjoyed the ones that I did find. I never got the appeal of Brother Voodoo at all.

As for the DC volumes, I'd definitely recommend the Jonah Hex and Unknown Soldier volumes. By the time the Unknown Soldier was created, DC's war books really had the continuing character series down to a science. Now if they'd only put out the Losers in a nice thick Showcase volume... For more hero type books, most of the DC books have problems with repetition, with the exception of Challengers Volume 1 (as stated by others in this thread). Kirby just couldn't repeat himself too much if he tried. I just got the recent Blackhawk volume, so i don't know yet how it reads 40+ years later. Phantom Stranger volume 1 is good, but ignore any of the Kanigher stories -- he just didn't get the character. Kanigher's Dr. 13 stories work better, but his Phantom Stranger just doesn't have the same appeal as the other writers.

T GUy

11-25-2008, 04:48 PM

I'd put Adam Strange way above War That Time Forgot, personally. I like the latter, but the stories are heavily formulaic.

And you reckon Adam Strange isn't?

(Same goes for the otherwise excellent Enemy Ace. If one were to formulate a drinking game whereby one takes a slug every time Von Hammer invokes the killing skies or talks to that wolf, one would be blotto inside an hour.)

As safe a bet as that drinking game where you read Batman stories and take a slug every time he tries to capture a criminal.

dan bailey

11-26-2008, 06:39 AM

And you reckon Adam Strange isn't?

Undoubtedly so, but I've read some War That Time Forgot stories (roughly the first quarter or so of the Showcase Presents) much more recently than I have a selection of Adam Stranges (possibly not since I was reading the reprint Strange Adventures ishes straight off the spinner racks)

Pól Rua

11-26-2008, 04:14 PM

Unfortunately, simply because of the fact that the original stories weren't intended to be read in this format, a LOT of the stuff collected in Showcases and Essentials reads as repetitive.
Doesn't mean it isn't mm-mmm tasty good.

Can I nominate the following for the 'Tomb of Dracula' drinking game?

Any time a character we've never met before is introduced by their full name in the first panel we see them? DEAD.

destro

11-26-2008, 08:18 PM

benday-dot

11-26-2008, 09:03 PM

I considered making a new thread for this, but it is about one of my purchases so I'll place it here..

I've noticed that in Defenders volume II there are a few instances of art placed at the top of the page with half a page of pure text below explaining it. I have never seen this format in a Marvel comic before. One example, when Daredevil is placed on the Grandmaster's gameboard we see a shot of all of the Defenders and Daredevil's impressions of them as text below. Very interesting, I kind of like it. Are there any other examples of this style from other Marvels of the same timer period?

You are talking about Giant-Size Defenders #3 I think. It was written by the late great Steve Gerber, and yes, what you describe was a technique he was known to use on several occasions.

Check out some issues of Man-Thing (again, particularly the Giant-Size issues) and Howard the Duck. Possible Son of Satan as well).

My copies are kind of buried and the GCD is being nasty so I'm sorry I don't have issue numbers. Wish I could research it more, but 'tis late now for me.

I can't recall who else from the bullpen might have done this sort of thing.

Don McGregor, Jim Starlin, Doug Moench? I can't say if they did, but if anyone besides Gerber went for these textual adventures, they would seem like strong candidates.

destro

11-26-2008, 09:23 PM

Thanks for the info. I could see how it could get old if it was overused, but I found it kind of refreshing.
I'm surprised that this technique didn't become more popular in the comics world. It seems like there are certain times and situations when it would make a lot of sense to use it. I found it an effective way to portray Daredevil's reactions.

JKCarrier

11-26-2008, 10:18 PM

You are talking about Giant-Size Defenders #3 I think. It was written by the late great Steve Gerber, and yes, what you describe was a technique he was known to use on several occasions.

The most extreme example was Howard the Duck #16 -- it was ALL illustrated prose!

Dave Sim used this technique several times in Cerebus, most notably in "Jaka's Story".

Terry Moore did it a lot in Strangers in Paradise, too.

Leocomix

11-29-2008, 01:39 PM

Gerber also used it in Man-Thing, the last story of the first regular series and also Giant Size 5 both in the second Essential volume if I remember correctly (and in Nevada).
Gerber has been an inspiration to Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman and Grant Morrison, i.e. the cream of the cream in comics. That period of Marvel is known as the writers renaissance since Gerber, Moench, McGregor, Starlin and Englehart pushed writing to heights that Marvel wouldn't achieve again before the late 90s.

spoon_jenkins

11-29-2008, 02:05 PM

Unfortunately, simply because of the fact that the original stories weren't intended to be read in this format, a LOT of the stuff collected in Showcases and Essentials reads as repetitive.
Doesn't mean it isn't mm-mmm tasty good.
I actually like to read all the way through the books over 2 or 3 weeks. It's neat to see how a character or a run evolved.

I think the repetitiveness is a bigger problem with DC than with Marvel. Does anyone have suggestion for silver Showcase Presents books that the least difficult to read in big chunks?

Greg Hatcher

11-29-2008, 02:15 PM

Does anyone have suggestion for silver Showcase Presents books that the least difficult to read in big chunks?

Jonah Hex
Unknown Soldier
Phantom Stranger
Booster Gold
Batman and the Outsiders
Brave and the Bold
Batgirl
Robin
Enemy Ace
Shazam

Ranked more or less in the order of ease I found them to be; this is speaking strictly in terms of "read in big chunks," understand, as the ones working the best in book format. Hex and the Unknown Soldier, especially, not only worked as books they were damn hard to put down. By the time you get to the Silver Age hero stuff like Superman or Green Lantern, you are best served by reading them two or three issues at a time.

T GUy

11-30-2008, 06:44 AM

Jonah Hex
Unknown Soldier
Phantom Stranger
Booster Gold
Batman and the Outsiders
Brave and the Bold
Batgirl
Robin
Enemy Ace
Shazam

Ranked more or less in the order of ease I found them to be; this is speaking strictly in terms of "read in big chunks," understand, as the ones working the best in book format. Hex and the Unknown Soldier, especially, not only worked as books they were damn hard to put down. By the time you get to the Silver Age hero stuff like Superman or Green Lantern, you are best served by reading them two or three issues at a time.

Roger that.

I rotate - or am rotating at the moment - GL, Supes, Wonder Woman, Superman Family and the Elongated Man. The different editorial approaches of Schwartz, Weisinger and Kanigher provide a measure of variety which I find is required when reading through superheroes.

Nitpick (look, I'm a comics fan, okay?): Hex and the Unknown Soldier are Bronze Age. As is, now I check your list, the Phantom Stranger.

An interesting sidenote on Wonder Woman (Vol. 1) is the credits at the begining, which state everything is by Kanigher, Andru and Esposito unless noted otherwise. Later in the credits there is a note that a cover is by Hasen and Sachs. And that is it for the notes.

Pil

11-30-2008, 09:14 AM

Nitpick (look, I'm a comics fan, okay?): Hex and the Unknown Soldier are Bronze Age. As is, now I check your list, the Phantom Stranger.
Volume 1 is Silver Age, whereas vol. 2 is Bronze Age. The first stories with the Phantom Stranger is from around 1959 IIRC, and was reprinted in the first issues of the Phantom Stranger series.

spoon_jenkins

11-30-2008, 01:24 PM

Thanks for the feedback on Showcases, guys. I'll keep those recommendations in mind when I'm looking around Ebay. Actually, I don't mind the Bronze Age stuff on the list (even though I said Silver). I wouldn't get Batman and the Outsiders though, since I have most of those issues.

I have many more Essentials than Showcases. One reason is readability. I bought the Green Lantern volumes a while back because GL is one of my favorite DC characters. It seems from your comments that I picked up one of the tougher series to read in chunks.

Another reason I've bought more Essentials than Showcases is that for some reason, Essentials tended to go cheaper on Ebay than Showcases.

dan bailey

12-01-2008, 02:20 PM

I've found Showcase Presents to be paperbound crack, pretty much. Five of 'em arrived today, courtesy of Books-a-Million & UPS -- the second Wonder Woman, Metal Men & Sgt Rock volumes, as well as House of Secrets & Blackhawk. That gives me all of 'em except for the LOSH volumes (because I've already got the contents in Archives or the original issues) & Shazam (about which I don't, y'know, much care). With online, loyalty club & coupon discounts, they average out at $9.54 each, which as a cheapskate I can live with.

I've now got nearly as many Showcases as I do Essentials, & I expect the former to exceed the latter on my shelves in just a few months, since Marvel has pretty much run out of Silver & Bronze Age stuff to reprint unless they do something drastic & actually acknowledge that Rawhide Kid & the like used to be around. At the moment, only 10 Essentials exist that I want (the 4 TODs, 2 WBNs & 2 Marvel Horrors, along with Tales of the Zombie & Spider-Woman vol 2).

My interest in the Marvel superheroes pretty much ends with the mid-'70s, though probably I'll keep on with the Avengers volumes for awhile.

Unfortunately, the promised Essential Submariner appears to have been yet another Marvel lie (creeping al-Quesadaism, I guess), at least so far, though maybe Classic X-Men vol 3 will actually appear as scheduled in a few weeks.

Maestro

12-03-2008, 11:03 PM

I hope you don't plan on skipping Fantastic Four and Thor and some of the other early 60's Marvel Comics. They're only some of the best stories ever, you know

dan bailey

12-04-2008, 05:10 AM

The only pre-mid-'70s superhero Essential that I don't own (& have no interest in obtaining) is Silver Surfer. As I've noted here before, for some reason I've never been able to stand the character. Too much handwringing, I guess.

Slam_Bradley

12-04-2008, 08:34 AM