Earth, Wind, And Fire: Crystal Appreciation

[CrystalGazing]

Since my beloved Inhumans seem to be on the upswing what with Secret Invasion: Inhumans and War of The Kings on the way, I though this was a good time to celebrate my favorite one: Crystal. She's something of a wildchild for the Royal Family , but she always breaks the rules with grace. She's truly a linchpin in the Marvel U , with ties that range from the Avengers to the FF and even to Magneto. So please consider this a place for all your Crystal thoughts and let's talk.

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/28/crystal_pinup.gif

[Shellhead]

It's difficult to respect Crystal as a person. I recently re-read the issue where she dumped Johnny Storm for Quicksilver, and her feelings for Johnny changed almost as fast as Quicksilver can run. Then she stayed married to Quicksilver for a while, but eventually cheated on him with a realtor that she met through Scarlet Witch and Vision while visiting their home. Later, she was involved in a tawdry love triangle, competing with Sersi for the affection of the Black Knight.

Powerwise, it's also difficult to be impressed with Crystal. She's a silver age kind of gal, completely useless in HTH, but pretty powerful if she has the room to stand back and wave her arms around. But she's lucky to still be alive... she isn't bulletproof, she can't particularly dodge well, heck she probably can't even take a punch.

All that said, I do like Crystal. She's been around for a long time, and instead of staying segregated from the rest of the Marvel Universe the way most Inhumans are, she's been out there fighting side by side with the Fantastic Four and the Avengers.

[Grapeweasel]

She really hasn't been used well since Fantastic Four 131.

[freddy1428]

It's difficult to respect Crystal as a person. I recently re-read the issue where she dumped Johnny Storm for Quicksilver, and her feelings for Johnny changed almost as fast as Quicksilver can run. Then she stayed married to Quicksilver for a while, but eventually cheated on him with a realtor that she met through Scarlet Witch and Vision while visiting their home. Later, she was involved in a tawdry love triangle, competing with Sersi for the affection of the Black Knight.

Don't worry, she will be soon with a real man, a macho man, his name is Ronan of the kree, with him there will no another man, with him Crystal will learn to be a good housewife.:evilsmile:

[CrystalGazing]

Don't worry, she will be soon with a real man, a macho man, his name is Ronan of the kree, with him there will no another man, with him Crystal will learn to be a good housewife.:evilsmile:

Either that or she'll fry him to a crisp

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/105106-127453-crystal_super.jpg

[Pixie_Solanas]

Since my beloved Inhumans seem to be on the upswing what with Secret Invasion: Inhumans and War of The Kings on the way, I though this was a good time to celebrate my favorite one: Crystal. She's something of a wildchild for the Royal Family , but she always breaks the rules with grace. She's truly a linchpin in the Marvel U , with ties that range from the Avengers to the FF and even to Magneto. So please consider this a place for all your Crystal thoughts and let's talk.

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/28/crystal_pinup.gif

Trademark Kirby-Krackle on that massive rumpshaking ass there.

[wanderlust565]

Crystal's pretty cool. She is part of the House of M extended family after all. Did anyone see the preview for SI:Inhumans 4, she's so gonna put a hurting on her sister.

[Greg Anderson]

I liked her in Son of M and Silent War.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/78826-38585-crystal_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/1093/86143-100763-crystal_large.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/5599/143220-71923-crystal_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/5599/151478-174256-crystal_super.jpg

[SquidSquod]

For a "kid sister" she matures too fast by marrying Quicksilver & having a daughter.

[Will.S]

For a "kid sister" she matures too fast by marrying Quicksilver & having a daughter.
True but not uncommon in real life either.

[oenglish]

Later, she was involved in a tawdry love triangle, competing with Sersi for the affection of the Black Knight.

That seems to be the commonly espoused opinion of those Avengers stories, but its not exactly true if you read them.

Sersi chases Dane. Dane chases Crystal. Crystal would _like_ the opportunity to become involved with Dane, but continually refuses/rejects him because she's married to Quicksilver, for good or ill. Crystal and Dane shared exactly one kiss (after Quicksilver told her there was no hope for their marriage), and that was it - she had romantic feelings but refused to actually act on them because she didn't feel it was right to do so.

I think there are a lot of places where Crystal has been written in what could be described as a less than pleasant way (Englehart's FF jumps right to mind, not to mention Jenkins' Sentry issue), but in that whole Avengers arc, its pretty hard to tag her actions in that Avengers romantic mess as anything less than noble.

[CrystalGazing]

That seems to be the commonly espoused opinion of those Avengers stories, but its not exactly true if you read them.

Sersi chases Dane. Dane chases Crystal. Crystal would _like_ the opportunity to become involved with Dane, but continually refuses/rejects him because she's married to Quicksilver, for good or ill. Crystal and Dane shared exactly one kiss (after Quicksilver told her there was no hope for their marriage), and that was it - she had romantic feelings but refused to actually act on them because she didn't feel it was right to do so.

I think there are a lot of places where Crystal has been written in what could be described as a less than pleasant way (Englehart's FF jumps right to mind, not to mention Jenkins' Sentry issue), but in that whole Avengers arc, its pretty hard to tag her actions in that Avengers romantic mess as anything less than noble.

I agree with you. I think the problem is Crystal has in the past been portrayed as kind of a flake. Her transition from Johnny Storm to Quicksilver wasn't fleshed out properly and I think it can be easier to draw upon that and kind of lump her in a certain category. That being said she was far from a perfect wife and continues to be far from a perfect character, but aren't the most interesting ones always flawed anyway

[berk]

My favourite FF character, from when I was a pre-teen kid reading the Kirby/Lee stories. The later character, the one who married Quicksilver, etc, to me that's an entirely new creation by Roy Thomas and those who followed him, and has nothing at all to do with the Kirby/Lee Crystal. A good example of how aribitrary and nonsensical "continuity" can become in shared universes worked on by so many different writers over so many years.

[wanderlust565]

This pic is cool, you think they still hate each other
http://www.dragonhero.com/graphics/art/crystal_sersi_eric.jpg

[Kage Kisaragi]

Still don't know what Johnny was thinking letting her go and to Quicksilver of all people. I would have come up with something to beat QS, even if it meant asking Reed for help.. Crystal booty is just to precious to give up. The only thing I can't forgive her for is kissing Sentry.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/77297-97495-crystal_super.jpg
Scrumptious!

[Kage Kisaragi]

It's difficult to respect Crystal as a person. I recently re-read the issue where she dumped Johnny Storm for Quicksilver, and her feelings for Johnny changed almost as fast as Quicksilver can run. Then she stayed married to Quicksilver for a while, but eventually cheated on him with a realtor that she met through Scarlet Witch and Vision while visiting their home. Later, she was involved in a tawdry love triangle, competing with Sersi for the affection of the Black Knight.

Powerwise, it's also difficult to be impressed with Crystal. She's a silver age kind of gal, completely useless in HTH, but pretty powerful if she has the room to stand back and wave her arms around. But she's lucky to still be alive... she isn't bulletproof, she can't particularly dodge well, heck she probably can't even take a punch.

All that said, I do like Crystal. She's been around for a long time, and instead of staying segregated from the rest of the Marvel Universe the way most Inhumans are, she's been out there fighting side by side with the Fantastic Four and the Avengers.

That would be incorrect, as All Inhumans are physically superior to the normal human olympic level athlete.. check out their bios. Their all peek human.

[Allister77]

Crystal got totally kick ass in the SI Inhumans finale

[CrystalGazing]

Crystal got totally kick ass in the SI Inhumans finale

She sure did. She was really impressive not only with her powers but also just being a strong person, standing up to her sister, and accepting the marriage to Ronin for the sake of her people. She's really growing into a strong character . At the end of the issue it said the story continues in SI: War of The Kings. Is that a one shot or a mini like Kingbreaker. Does anyone know

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/wonderwall565/sii4-006.jpg

[bebopeva88]

She sure did. She was really impressive not only with her powers but also just being a strong person, standing up to her sister, and accepting the marriage to Ronin for the sake of her people. She's really growing into a strong character . At the end of the issue it said the story continues in SI: War of The Kings. Is that a one shot or a mini like Kingbreaker. Does anyone know?

SI: War of Kings is a one shot coming out in Jan., and then later on comes the actual War of Kings mini, and subsequent tie ins. It's the next cosmic event, a la Annihilation and its ilk.

[Doc Goblin]

Thanks to the Harras era Avengers, I'm a fan of Crystal's (and obviously Lockjaw). All the drama with Dane, Sersi and Pietro was really compelling and touching at the end.

Her appearance in SI: Inhumans was very cool. I look forward to seeing where this engagement to Ronan goes. I thought the Kree were kind of hardcore about genetic purity though. I hope that and other possible complications are dealt with and not just glossed over.

Crystal and the rest of the Inhumans having a big role in War of Kings is one of the things that has me looking forward to it, despite my dislike of Vulcan.

[bad trotsky]

Lockjaw is awsome. I will never forgive drunk Ms Marvel for hurting him.

[wanderlust565]

So that thing in Crystal's hair, is that a birthmark thing or a headdress I think I've seen it drawn as both.

[CrystalGazing]

So that thing in Crystal's hair, is that a birthmark thing or a headdress I think I've seen it drawn as both.

It's a birthmark I'm pretty sure.

[CrystalGazing]

Here's some art work for the upcoming SI:War of the Kings. Crystal looks great. I'm really looking forward to the Inhumans in WOTK. They're new dynamic is so fascinating. Does anyone else think Maximus would have made a good addition to Norman's Illumi-naughty

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/wonderwall565/6324new_storyimage8846415_full.jpg

[bebopeva88]

Here's some art work for the upcoming SI:War of the Kings. Crystal looks great. I'm really looking forward to the Inhumans in WOTK. They're new dynamic is so fascinating.


Crystal does look good in the Pelletier pages, definitely better than any of the other characters...she almost looks like she was drawn by Al Rio or something in some panels, which is odd.

Does anyone else think Maximus would have made a good addition to Norman's Illumi-naughty

Maximus was my original guess when the Maleev cover to SI: Dark Reign was first teased months ago...turns out it was just a very oddly drawn Norman Osborn.

[CrystalGazing]

Maximus was my original guess when the Maleev cover to SI: Dark Reign was first teased months ago...turns out it was just a very oddly drawn Norman Osborn.


Yeah, him being part of it certainly would have made things more interesting . Not to mention it would tie the Inhumans to what will probably be the biggest Marvel event of the year, Dark Reign . But you know maybe they have something better planned. Also I know Crystal has taken a lot of flack for her love life(though she's brought some of it on herself) , but who do you guys think is the perfect guy for her?

http://dialbforblog.com/archives/28/ff81p1.gif

[Ventura]

So that thing in Crystal's hair, is that a birthmark thing or a headdress I think I've seen it drawn as both.

In her earliest appearances --FF #45-#59--she's not wearing the headdress; her hair is long and free flowing. And in the Inhumans 1960s back-up feature in Thor #149, she's shown as a child- -also without the headdress.

She started wearing the headdress--plus her yellow costume--in FF #61. She also had snoods at the bottom of her hair back then. This would suggest the headdress is not part of her but rather a decoration, for ceremonial or other reasons. Or maybe when she came of age in Inhuman society, it was grafted into her hair, as a sign of royalty? (Starting with FF #68, she ditched the snoods but retained the iconic headband, even though in a few Silver Age issues--FF #65, #75--she was drawn without the headband. Kirby just probably forgot! :smile: ).

You're right that her headdress can vary, depending on the artist. Personally, I like it when it's drawn as part of her hair, and not just something resembling a cheap plastic headband.

[CrystalGazing]

In her earliest appearances --FF #45-#59--she's not wearing the headdress; her hair is long and free flowing. And in the Inhumans 1960s back-up feature in Thor #149, she's shown as a child- -also without the headdress.

She started wearing the headdress--plus her yellow costume--in FF #61. She also had snoods at the bottom of her hair back then. This would suggest the headdress is not part of her but rather a decoration, for ceremonial or other reasons. Or maybe when she came of age in Inhuman society, it was grafted into her hair, as a sign of royalty? (Starting with FF #68, she ditched the snoods but retained the iconic headband, even though in a few Silver Age issues--FF #65, #75--she was drawn without the headband. Kirby just probably forgot! :smile: ).

You're right that her headdress can vary, depending on the artist. Personally, I like it when it's drawn as part of her hair, and not just something resembling a cheap plastic headband.

Thanks, it looks as if it's grafted onto her head in this page which is a preview page from WOTK, which looks awesome......her and Lorna ....., so much cool hair in one place

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/wonderwall565/wok5.jpg

[ComiXFanBoy]

crystal is one of my favorite characters. the first memorable introduction with me was when she joined the avengers so that is my favorite version of her. i wish she would go back to the avengers though

[Ventura]

Thanks, it looks as if it's grafted onto her head in this page which is a preview page from WOTK, which looks awesome......her and Lorna ....., so much cool hair in one place

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/wonderwall565/wok5.jpg


Thanks for posting this page, CrystalGazing--yes, this is the look I like best for Crystal's hair, with the black appearing to be part of her hair.

And I agree; both she and Lorna have absolutely gorgeous hair! They've always been two of my favorite characters, so I'm really looking forward to War of Kings.

[Shellhead]

Silly modern artists have gotten Crystal's hair thing wrong. When Kirby created her, it was just a deal to hold her hair in place. In fact, I'm old enough to remember women still wearing deals like that even in the early '70s. It doesn't make sense for it to be a permanent pattern in her hair, for the obvious reason that hair grows. That pattern would constantly be moving downwards and then getting hacked off each time she got her hair cut.

[CrystalGazing]

I actually like the hair birthmark thing, it's unique

[Ventura]

Silly modern artists have gotten Crystal's hair thing wrong. When Kirby created her, it was just a deal to hold her hair in place. In fact, I'm old enough to remember women still wearing deals like that even in the early '70s. It doesn't make sense for it to be a permanent pattern in her hair, for the obvious reason that hair grows. That pattern would constantly be moving downwards and then getting hacked off each time she got her hair cut.

We can accept someone with elemental powers--or even "living hair" (Medusa)--but not a decoration as an organic part of one's hair? :biggrin: Crystal is an Inhuman, who says their hair is like ours?

While I love the visual effect of it being part of her hair (as displayed in the beautiful page CrystalGazing posted), I agree with you, Shellhead--it was probably intended to be an external accessory.

IMO, Kirby drew it the best; its shape would change, i.e, it was not static, it was contoured. Also, the circles in the back changed, both in number and shape (so maybe she had several sets of the thing!).

Also, the hairdo Kirby used for Crystal--the flip in the front with long hair on the sides--was one of his favorite 'dos back in the '60s; he used it for Alicia (in her first appearance) and Sharon Carter, to name a couple of examples. So adding the headdress in FF #60 was a good move because it helped to make Crystal more distinctive.

[freddy1428]

Are you happy Crystal fans ? Your Crystal will break the heart of Ronan the accuser (one of my favorite character), he will be no more the same now.:evilangry: :biggrin:

http://comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=2152&pg=8

This man have fought deadly multiples times against the skrulls, the avengers, Captain Marvel (father and son), maybe with all the earth heroes and recently against the two annihilation (annihilus and phalanx/Ultron), but her with just few words have hurting him more that nobody else.

She is a very bad wife, she should deserve to be married with the Doctor Doom or Mole Man like punishement.

[kcekada]

I like the character. She's made some poor choices in her life -- possibly stemming from being somewhat sheltered, and at the same point, being one of the few Inhumans to lead a life outside of Attilan.

Her powers are pretty cool. I recall a reprint of Fantastic Four #100 in which Crystal was the FF's secret weapon -- quite a powerhouse.

[Shellhead]

Marrying Crystal to Ronan the Accuser is practically a declaration of war. There's no good that can come of it.

[berk]

I just think it's sad that whenever some big plot development happens to this character it always seems to be some kind of marriage/relationship thing. Is that all they can come up with?

[SquidSquod]

Crystal is always a yummy mummy.

[Keneticam]

I love Crystal for her unique look and powers. @Crystalgazing- U forgot to mention that she can manipulate earth too, or was that a later element she learned to control?

[Dermie]

Crys has been a favourite of mine for a long time. She can also be a major powerhouse when she gets a chance to cut loose--as we saw during the SI: INHUMANS mini last year. Although the issue was a dream sequence, FF #332 is an impressive display of Crys' power and skill as she defeats the Invisible Woman one-on-one! "War Of Kings" has also showed her to be a more capable fighter than some give her credit for--Phyla thinks she has Crystal hostage, until Crys just flips her over and says she let Phyla take her. C'mon Phy--the woman is a former Avenger and FF member; she's no pushover! :)

Crys definately takes a lot of flak over her love life...and some of it is deserved. She has been a part of three separate love trianlges by now (which has gotta be some kind of record), and did cheat on her husband. She also had a one night stand with the Sentry after having a fight with Johnny...and then years later tried to sleep with Sentry again, even though she knew he was married. However, I think some readers are a bit *too* harsh on her. She didn't cheat on Pietro with Dane--they were separated at the time, and she and Dane only had one kiss. Crys chose to leave the FF when she saw how her presence was hurting Johnny and 'Alicia's' marriage. Maximus the Mad has admitted to being at least partly responsible for Crys' affair with Norm since he was using his powers to manipulate both Crys and Pietro at the time (a fact that a lot of readers and writers seem to forget about). So she isn't quite the horrible slut that some people try to make her out to be.
Everybody has their flaws and weaknesses...and Crys' apparently is being bad with relationships. I also think she is one of those people who tends to define themselves by their relationship status and can't stand to be alone--Crys always seems to need some man in her life, and she gravitates towards whomever is giving her the most affection and making her feel best about herself. Perhaps some day we'll see a story where Crys decides to confront these issues and learn how to be comfortable as an independant person without needing a man to complete her...but in the meantime, she is still a strong and interesting character, who just can't seem to make a relationship work.

[Keneticam]

She's definitely emotionally unstable, but the fact that's she's going through all the romances and love triangles, makes her all the more interesting and like her even more.

[Fat Cobra]

Marrying Crystal to Ronan the Accuser is practically a declaration of war. There's no good that can come of it.

She really needs to ditch Ronan. I was really hoping the guy would die in War of Kings. But hey, there is still one more issue.

[Keneticam]

Why would u want him to die? Thats messed up! hehe:) I would rather see her marry someone else I admit, but I wouldn't want the guy to die.

[Rutog98]

Crys has been a favourite of mine for a long time. She can also be a major powerhouse when she gets a chance to cut loose--as we saw during the SI: INHUMANS mini last year. Although the issue was a dream sequence, FF #332 is an impressive display of Crys' power and skill as she defeats the Invisible Woman one-on-one! "War Of Kings" has also showed her to be a more capable fighter than some give her credit for--Phyla thinks she has Crystal hostage, until Crys just flips her over and says she let Phyla take her. C'mon Phy--the woman is a former Avenger and FF member; she's no pushover! :)


How did Crystal beat the Invisible Woman? Can anyone post the fight sequence?

[Keneticam]

Yeah! please do! I wanna see it too. I couldn't see how Crystal's powers could overcome Sue's.

[Dermie]

I don't have access to my scanner right now, so I can't post it...but Crys' main advantage was that Sue can't completely shield herself from Crys' power. Even inside her force field she needs to breathe--and Crys' control over air and heat made that impossible. She forced Sue out of her force-field and then trapped her in ice. When Sue tried to use her force-field to break the ice apart, Crys held it together with her earth power.
Crys used her powers really creatively in that fight as well--she was able to summon water by drawing moisture out of the air, the paint in the walls, etc.

In the end, if the two of them had a rematch (or a "real" fight since that one was re-written into a dream sequence), it could easily go either way. These are two very powerful women, and the way their powers work either one of them could win--it all depends on who manages to get the upper hand first.

She really needs to ditch Ronan. I was really hoping the guy would die in War of Kings. But hey, there is still one more issue.

I don't want him to die, but I was not originally a fan of the idea of him and Crys getting married (neither was Crys, for that matter). But as the story has gone on, I've actually enjoyed their growing bond more than I ever expected to, as Crys has started to develop some genuine affection for him.

[Fat Cobra]

Why would u want him to die? .

Because he's an intolerable douchebag, which I'm guessing is what everyone likes about him.

[Keneticam]

I don't know much about him...Wat makes him so bad? I read a little bit about his bio. He's pretty strong and he has an emotional side as well.

[Perfection/Emma 2]

I like Crystal, wish she was an X-Men

[berk]

Crys has been a favourite of mine for a long time. She can also be a major powerhouse when she gets a chance to cut loose--as we saw during the SI: INHUMANS mini last year. Although the issue was a dream sequence, FF #332 is an impressive display of Crys' power and skill as she defeats the Invisible Woman one-on-one! "War Of Kings" has also showed her to be a more capable fighter than some give her credit for--Phyla thinks she has Crystal hostage, until Crys just flips her over and says she let Phyla take her. C'mon Phy--the woman is a former Avenger and FF member; she's no pushover! :)

Crys definately takes a lot of flak over her love life...and some of it is deserved. She has been a part of three separate love trianlges by now (which has gotta be some kind of record), and did cheat on her husband. She also had a one night stand with the Sentry after having a fight with Johnny...and then years later tried to sleep with Sentry again, even though she knew he was married. However, I think some readers are a bit *too* harsh on her. She didn't cheat on Pietro with Dane--they were separated at the time, and she and Dane only had one kiss. Crys chose to leave the FF when she saw how her presence was hurting Johnny and 'Alicia's' marriage. Maximus the Mad has admitted to being at least partly responsible for Crys' affair with Norm since he was using his powers to manipulate both Crys and Pietro at the time (a fact that a lot of readers and writers seem to forget about). So she isn't quite the horrible slut that some people try to make her out to be.
Everybody has their flaws and weaknesses...and Crys' apparently is being bad with relationships. I also think she is one of those people who tends to define themselves by their relationship status and can't stand to be alone--Crys always seems to need some man in her life, and she gravitates towards whomever is giving her the most affection and making her feel best about herself. Perhaps some day we'll see a story where Crys decides to confront these issues and learn how to be comfortable as an independant person without needing a man to complete her...but in the meantime, she is still a strong and interesting character, who just can't seem to make a relationship work.The problem here isn't with the character - I mean the one created and written by Kirby & Lee - but with the writers from Roy Thomas onwards who imposed all that extraneous nonsense onto that character.

[Keneticam]

true, but all of it makes her more realistic. and yes i also wish Crystal was apart of the xmen. she would be an excellent addition, i just fear that the writers would make her startup some romantic trouble. lol they have emma frost fot that.

[Iron Maiden]

I like Crystal, wish she was an X-Men

Why? That's only for classified mutants. The Inhumans have were genetic experiment of the Krees. I'm glad she dumped Pietro anyway.

[widdershins]

I don't have access to my scanner right now, so I can't post it...but Crys' main advantage was that Sue can't completely shield herself from Crys' power. Even inside her force field she needs to breathe--and Crys' control over air and heat made that impossible.


And why can't she completely shield herself from Crystal's power? Her forcefield blocked the heat of Johnny's nova blast. Or do you mean that Crystal can influence air inside her forcefield? Whatever kind of power Crystal uses for her elemental manipulation, Sue should be able to block it. Not even Molecule Man can use his powers directly on her when she's inside her forcefield, and she can adapt it to interrupt most forms of energy transfer. A simple forcefield over Crystal's mouth, and we'd see who runs out of air first.

[Fat Cobra]

I don't know much about him...Wat makes him so bad? I read a little bit about his bio. He's pretty strong and he has an emotional side as well.

Well just to name a few, he tried to kill Star-Lord who actually considered him an ally and he also tried to obliterate his own home world. But hey, genocide isn't that bad. Right?

[TOAA]

Well just to name a few, he tried to kill Star-Lord who actually considered him an ally and he also tried to obliterate his own home world. But hey, genocide isn't that bad. Right?

He would have rather seen his people dead than infected by Phalanax.

And why can't she completely shield herself from Crystal's power? Her forcefield blocked the heat of Johnny's nova blast. Or do you mean that Crystal can influence air inside her forcefield? Whatever kind of power Crystal uses for her elemental manipulation, Sue should be able to block it. Not even Molecule Man can use his powers directly on her when she's inside her forcefield, and she can adapt it to interrupt most forms of energy transfer. A simple forcefield over Crystal's mouth, and we'd see who runs out of air first.

Could Sue just make a forcfield inside Crystal`s body so it would kinda explode and shit?

[Dermie]

And why can't she completely shield herself from Crystal's power? Her forcefield blocked the heat of Johnny's nova blast. Or do you mean that Crystal can influence air inside her forcefield?

Yes, Crystal can influence the air inside the field. Sue still has to breathe, so she can't completely cut herself off from the outside world inside her field.

Whatever kind of power Crystal uses for her elemental manipulation, Sue should be able to block it.

Nope. If there is air in her force field, then Crys can manipulate it.

A simple forcefield over Crystal's mouth, and we'd see who runs out of air first.

As I said, a fight between them could go either way--if Sue managed to nail Crys in the head with a force-blast, she could knock her out cold. But I don't think Sue would be wise to play the "who runs out of air first" card on Crys--since Crys can control the air, she'll win. If Crys really wanted to get nasty, she could also control the water inside Sue's body, and do some real damage... (Sue could also do serious damage to enemies along the same line, if she generated her force-field inside someone's body, as she sometimes does to robots).

[Iron Maiden]

Well, here's the whole sordid affair. The lame catfight Englehart gave us under his John Harkness nom de plume from FF #332, complete with hair-pulling. Both of them are really the dreams of the real FF as they are held captive in a cave in by Aron the Rogue Watcher. Englehart says on his website that due to Marvel editorial, he had the FF dream the stuff he wanted to happen for real. He surmised that the reason why the FF had gone stale was because of the roster hadn't been shaken up enough (even though Byrne had just done it with She-Hulk subbing for Ben). After putting Sue and Reed in the Avengers for a while, he brought the team back together.

But if this kind of infighting is what he wanted to do, I'm glad he was forced into writing it as a dream sequence. Sue's being kind of hypocritical here since she kept Reed guessing with her crush on Namor. :biggrin: And Crystal is just plain bitchy. This might have been around the same time "Dynasty" used to have the annual catfights with Krystal and Alexis.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/3702/ff332p11.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5725/ff332p14.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/3140/ff332p16.jpg

[Iron Maiden]

I think Sue probably could kill her by putting an force field bubbles in her blood stream and cause an aneurysm if she really wanted to get ruthless about it. But it would be a close call between the two of them. I would give Sue the edge simply because she once dropped a Celestial and has been more battle tested than Crystal.

To add an extra layer of confusion, Franklin confessed that because he knows that Ben will always resist any change back to human form because of his fear us losing Alicia. So he says he made Johnny and Alicia fall in love so that Ben wouldn't have to worry about that. Ben was back in human form in this dream sequence so Franklin puts the original couples back together again.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8161/ff332p17.jpg


http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1928/ff332p19.png

[kalorama]

And why can't she completely shield herself from Crystal's power? Her forcefield blocked the heat of Johnny's nova blast.

It's been shown that continued application of enough heat to her force field will heat up the air inside it, making it hard for her to breathe. And since the force field is a mental projection, application of enough physical force to its surface will cause Sue to experience physic pain that will impair her concentration and can cause her to drop the field.

[kalorama]

Either that or she'll fry him to a crisp

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/105106-127453-crystal_super.jpg

Is that Adam Warren pic just a WoK variant cover or did he actually draw that story? Because if it's the latter, I've got to find that.

[Dermie]

After putting Sue and Reed in the Avengers for a while, he brought the team back together.

Englehart didn't put Reed and Sue in the Avengers--Walt Simonson did that. Englehart had them "retire" to spend time with Franklin, and then when Simonson became AVENGERS writer he pulled them into the book.

But if this kind of infighting is what he wanted to do, I'm glad he was forced into writing it as a dream sequence.

This particular bit of in-fighting would actually be a real example of "because you demanded it"--after the roster shake-up where Crys and Sharon joined the team there were a lot of letters in the letters page with requests for a Sue vs Crys fight--with a surprising number of people hoping that Crys would kill Sue! I was shocked to see so many anti-Sue letters from FF fans. I wonder if there is still such a strong anti-Sue section of the FF fanbase, or if that attitude changed over time?

Sue's being kind of hypocritical here since she kept Reed guessing with her crush on Namor. :biggrin: And Crystal is just plain bitchy.

Honestly, I think Sue is being far bitchier than Crys. Sue basically tells Crystal to leave the team because she doesn't like her brother working with his ex-lover. Crys hasn't done anything to try and split Johnny and Alicia up, but Sue sticks her nose in and tells Crystal she isn't welcome. It definately wasn't a shining moment of maturity for Sue (although she does redeem herself a bit later in the issue, when she tells Reed not to throw Crystal out for fighting with her since it wasn't her fault).

[widdershins]

Yes, Crystal can influence the air inside the field. Sue still has to breathe, so she can't completely cut herself off from the outside world inside her field.

But Sue can make her force field airtight. She only needed to enclose herself in a big one and put a smaller one around Crystal's head.


Nope. If there is air in her force field, then Crys can manipulate it.

Sue has blocked Molecule Man (who couldn't directly affect her inside her force field and trasformed the air OUTSIDE of it into concrete) Magneto, Sersi, Jean Grey's telekinesis, and has been shown able to adapt her field to block different energy frequencies. She should be able to do the same with Crystal's power. The only difference is that Crystal's power generally isn't explicitly shown - the others have a coloured energy signature, though in the comic they are meant to be invisible - but it is nonetheless a form of psionic matter manipulation.

[kalorama]

But Sue can make her force field airtight. She only needed to enclose herself in a big one and put a smaller one around Crystal's head.

Even if it's airtight, that still means there's air inside the field. Crystal has the power to manipulate that air.

Sue has blocked Molecule Man (who couldn't directly affect her inside her force field and trasformed the air OUTSIDE of it into concrete) Magneto, Sersi, Jean Grey's telekinesis, and has been shown able to adapt her field to block different energy frequencies. She should be able to do the same with Crystal's power. The only difference is that Crystal's power generally isn't explicitly shown - the others have a coloured energy signature, though in the comic they are meant to be invisible - but it is nonetheless a form of psionic matter manipulation.

All that really proves is that Crystal's powers don't necessarily work the same way as any or all of those others.

[widdershins]

All that really proves is that Crystal's powers don't necessarily work the same way as any or all of those others.

No. It only proves that sometimes writers forget logic.

[kalorama]

No. It only proves that sometimes writers forget logic.

That implies that there's ever actual logic being applied to the way superpowers work which, of course, there rarely (if ever) is. If logic were at all involved, then every time the thing picked up a building or a battleship or a spaceship by one corner, the entire thing would crumble or collapse in his hands under its own weight.

[widdershins]

That implies that there's ever actual logic being applied to the way superpowers work which, of course, there rarely (if ever) is. If logic were at all involved, then every time the thing picked up a building or a battleship or a spaceship by one corner, the entire thing would crumble or collapse in his hands under its own weight.

Byrne did write a comic which commented upon just that. Reed thought that Gladiator lifting a building should be impossible for precisely that reason, and deduced that his powers were psionic in nature- he held the structure together with some form of telekinesis.

[Dermie]

But Sue can make her force field airtight. She only needed to enclose herself in a big one and put a smaller one around Crystal's head.

There is still air inside Sue's field for her to breathe, therefore Crys can get at her. There is still water in Sue's body, therefore Crys can get at her.

Sue has blocked Molecule Man (who couldn't directly affect her inside her force field and trasformed the air OUTSIDE of it into concrete) Magneto, Sersi, Jean Grey's telekinesis, and has been shown able to adapt her field to block different energy frequencies. She should be able to do the same with Crystal's power.

Just because Sue can do that to other people's powers does not automatically mean that she can do it to Crystal's power. Different powers work in different ways.

No. It only proves that sometimes writers forget logic.

It doesn't prove anything of the kind. Crystal does not have the same power as the Molecule Man (or Magneto, Jean Grey, etc) so it is not logical to assume that Sue must be able to affect her power the same way she can affect the others.

[kalorama]

Byrne did write a comic which commented upon just that. Reed thought that Gladiator lifting a building should be impossible for precisely that reason, and deduced that his powers were psionic in nature- he held the structure together with some form of telekinesis.

That's great for Gladiator, but last I checked the Thing, Hulk, Thor, Sub-Mariner, Iron Man, Doc Samson, Beast, Colossus, Hercules, etc. (A) routinely perform similar feats and (B) don't have "some form of telekinesis," so that particular explanation doesn't really apply to them. So much for logic.

[widdershins]

It doesn't prove anything of the kind. Crystal does not have the same power as the Molecule Man (or Magneto, Jean Grey, etc) so it is not logical to assume that Sue must be able to affect her power the same way she can affect the others.

But Sue can alter her force fields to match different forms of energy. That's how she has disrupted many different kinds of force fields created by others, and how she did manage to break the Celestial's armour - attuning the field in order to create an interference.



Just because Sue can do that to other people's powers does not automatically mean that she can do it to Crystal's power. Different powers work in different ways.

My problem is with the assumption that just because she can control the elements, she can control them inside the force field. While her power could be too subtle to be effectively blocked by Sue, it still works through physical means, and therefore can be blocked by a sufficiently sophisticated barrier.
The problem is that when powers are not depicted with a visual effect, writers tend to forget that they do still need to work according to an internal logic.


There is still air inside Sue's field for her to breathe, therefore Crys can get at her. There is still water in Sue's body, therefore Crys can get at her.

There were air, fire, earth and water both inside and outside the Great Refuge, but Crystal couldn't bypass the Great Barrier Maximum had created. The Inhumans were cut off from the outside world in all ways.

[Twistedreject]

Your all saying

"She'd kill her by (blah blah blah) explode her etc... "

But instead of thinking about powers, we're thinking about Powers and Personalities .... Even if there were sworn enemies, I doubt Sue would kill Crystal, especially in such a horrible way.

Yes she'd try to trap her, or knock her out, but she wouldn't kill her, not after she was a dear friend of the F4 and her brothers ex-lover.

So Sue would be hesitant and thoughtful when using her powers.

[Expletive Deleted]

Fight scenarios belong on the Rumbles forum.

Thanks.

[tolworthy]

I'm happy to find this thread, as I just finished my own Crystal fan page.
http://enterthestory.com/Crystal.html

For me, the pre-1991 Crystal was innocent, noble, and utterly amazing. The Quicksilver marriage was because Johnny Storm betrayed her. With Normal Webster she was a victim, not a predator. But after 1991? To me it's a completely different character.

[Justin K.]

This pic is cool, you think they still hate each other
http://www.dragonhero.com/graphics/art/crystal_sersi_eric.jpg

I loved their dysfunctional friendship. A reunion guaranteeing them both a spot on the Avengers would be a delight.