Cost of comics

[pmpknface]

Hello all!

Of course, like most of you, I've noticed the prices of comics slowly increasing. I doubted they'd average $4 by the end of the year, but I did notice a few things.

One of which is the nearly standard $4 price on "event books" which I can't really argue with. Heck, they're even late often enough anyway, right? ;) In any case, after that I also noticed that Marvel (and I'm focusing on them as I read more of their monthlies than DC and they are more the offenders here) has been sneaking $4 books with extra content.

Now, this is a bit of a touchy subject for me but I've caved to most of them. The near monthly Wolverine 1-shots, the Annuals, and the King-sized specials with reprinted materials. Heck I still buy Spider-Man Family.

The only other books that had the $4 price point were, generally, the Steven King books (which are events unto themselves) and the Marvel adult stuff. You know, the MAX books, which need that point to keep their profits up, and the Marvel Knights books so they can have those shiny card-stock covers that EVERYONE of course still needs. (COUGH - no, COUGH).

Today the new Marvel solicits are up, and here's what I see...

HULK #10
Written by JEPH LOEB
32 PGS./Rated A ...$3.99

MODELS, INC. #1 (of 4)
Written by PAUL TOBIN
Pencils by VICENC VILLAGRASSA
Cover by SCOTT CLARK
32 PGS./ Rated A ...$3.99

MARVELS: EYE OF THE CAMERA #4
Written by KURT BUSIEK
Pencils & Cover by JAY ANACLETO
32 PGS./Rated A ...$3.99

X-MEN: KINGBREAKER #3 (of 4)
Written by CHRISTOPHER YOST
Penciled by DUSTIN WEAVER
Cover by BRANDON PETERSON
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99

X-INFERNUS #3 (of 4)
Written by C. B. CEBULSKI
Penciled by GIUSEPPE CAMUNCOLI
Cover by DAVID FINCH
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99

X-MEN ORIGINS: SABRETOOTH
Written by KIERON GILLEN
Pencils & Cover by DAN PANOSIAN
32 PGS./One-Shot/Rated T+ ...$3.99

X-MEN/SPIDER-MAN #4 (of 4)
Written by Christos Gage
Pencils & Cover by Mario Alberti
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99

X-MEN: THE TIMES AND LIFE OF LUCAS BISHOP #1 (OF 3)
Written by DUANE SWIERCZYNSKI
Pencils by LARRY STROHMAN
Cover by ARIEL OLIVETTI
32 PGS./Rated T+... $3.99

X-MEN: FIRST CLASS FINALS #1 (of 4)
Written by JEFF PARKER
Art by ROGER CRUZ & COLLEEN COOVER
Cover by ROGER CRUZ & VAL STAPL
32 PGS./Rated A ...$3.99

AND THERE ARE MORE!!! I left the 32+ page and MAX books off this list, and maybe the X-Infernus and War of Kings could have come off too, but STILL...

WTF? I don't think we are ready to see ASM and Avengers books getting higher just yet, but I DO think that it's safe to say that Marvel is now having some of these $4 books push their line into making it a more diverse place. Also, that the $4 tag is spreading to other various types of releases.

Finally that the $4 tag is officially here to stay on a monthly basis. Either on the regular issues or in a larger book format.

I dunno. You guys got any thoughts?

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Here's my addition to that list: The CLOAK AND DAGGER hardcover collects 112 pages for $19.99.

The next book on the list is the same format and price, but with 64 additional pages.

I love Rick Leonardi's artwork and would have bought the book just for that, but not at that price.

-Augie

[cfunke]

It breaks my heart to write this but I'm quickly reaching the point where I'm done with floppies. When I started reading Marvels were .65 and DC was .75. I've never seen a needless and more sneaky increase like this in all that time. Going from .75 to 1.00 percentagewise was still the same as going from 2.99 to 3.99 but it was still only a quarter.

What I'll do I don't know. Probably go to trades on some books if those prices don't rise as well, buy floppies of the few titles I can't live without, and go digital on the rest. I too have an extensive collection, most of which I haven't looked at in year. I recently started re-reading some of my older runs and I'm having a blast.

It comes down to two things....

1) I've got a daughter and I need to be fiscally responsible. I don't have the time to read that I used to either so making the sacrifice won't be as hard as it would have a couple years ago.

2) I don't appreciated being quietly raped by the publishers after 20+ years of loyalty. One could aruge that they have the right to raise their prices but the way they're doing it is pretty sneaky and underhanded.

[torippu]

I didn't look too closely at the solicits yet but I did see that the price point for DARK AVENGERS is $3.99 when I glanced at the Dark Reign books for February. Being on a hard budget for comics these days, I'm pretty sure that an increase in price will lead to me reading less books.

The one question I have is why is there such a significant jump? To me, a jump from $2.99 to $3.50 is much easier to swallow than $2.99 to $3.99.

[uthor]

I don't pick up a lot of floppies (maybe a dozen a month), so the extra $1 a book isn't bothering me too much. I've been trying to cut back to trades anyway, as most of my stuff is in that format and it's easier to store/display.

The only book I"m considering dropping is the Authority. It's still $3 for 32 pages, but there is a 6-8 page backup in each of the issues that ties in with the other Wildstorm books I am not reading. It's a cool device tying the books together, but all I see it as is losing 8 pages of story. That I'll probably continue in trade format after this current arc is over.

I have been cutting back my purchases of trades, however. I've caught up on most of the things I want to read (though there's always more....) and don't need to be dropping $100+ per month on comics (Absolute editions don't count!).

In addition to reading more prose, with it's better cost/page and cost/time spent enjoying ratios, I've started rereading books myself. Anytime I say, "I should really reread that," I put the book at the bottom of a pile and work my way down. By throwing a Cerebus book in there every once in a while, I've got months of reading ahead of me. Any new books get set on the top of the pile so I read them before rereading old stuff.

And I did recently reread Umbrella Academy. It's as good as the first time.

EDIT:
Moving away from floppies is also being driven by me reading more and more webcomics. I've got over two dozen that update regularly (at least one update per week) and a nother dozen or so that update sporatically. Now, a lot of those a gag strips more in line with newspaper comics (like Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/)), but some are long-form story driven comics that update a "page" at a time (like Freakangels (http://www.freakangels.com/)).

I know there is a ton out there that I'm not reading because I just don't have the time. If comics become too costly to buy, there's still enough quality free stuff to entertain me.

[Matt001]

I've heard good things about Umbrella Academy. I'll have to pick it up.

Price increases haven't stressed me out too much every since my LCS started accepting credit cards, but, honestly, I don't read the 20 books a month like I used to.

Maybe they need to go old school and print them on cheaper paper.

[cg_maniac]

The huge jump in fuel costs over the summer is to blame - everything is more expensive, and not just a bit more, a lot more.

Good to see some of you can still afford them though, I've had to give them up for a while now :frown:

[cg_maniac]

The huge jump in fuel costs over the summer is to blame - everything is more expensive, and not just a bit more, a lot more. and even though fuel prices are dropping, once the price of food, etc goes up, it usually doesn't come back down, at least not for a while.

Good to see some of you can still afford comics though - I've had to give them up for a while now :frown:

[dancj]

I'm not sure why people are saying the price rises are sneaky and underhanded. They have to increase the prices, so they're finding ways to soften the blow.

I don't know nearly enough about the economics of comics to know if the rise to $4 is really needed, but that basically means Americans will now be paying what Brits have been paying for a couple of years and we Brits will now be paying even more! Whatever the reason it's blatantly too much and if I hadn't jumped to trades years ago I'd certainly be doing it now.

[pmpknface]

Funny, I started this thread before I read this week's column. I just now got to it, and it was funny to see the 1st topic about comic prices.

Dan - I'm with you. I don't think it's sneaky or underhanded, just too much.

I wouldn't be able to afford to buy most of what I get if I wasn't getting at least 40% off of everything from Marvel. But what's going to start happening is that I'll be able to afford the spin-offs and the new and interesting mini's less and less.

I want to say that I'll just wait for the tpb, but as Augie pointed out they are increasing too!!! Depending on if it's a HC or SC, the size, and the discount I can get from DCBS it's almost the same cost per issue too. I can't win.

[pmpknface]

The latest sales numbers are out. And here's an observation (from ICV2.com via the BEAT):

The gains weren’t in circulations at the top of the chart, where most titles were down. But ten of the top 25 books were $3.99 this October, compared to only two $3.99 books in October of 2007, so price increases are certainly a factor. Another is strength at the bottom of the chart, where the #300 title clocked over 4,200 copies, vs. just 3,000 copies for the #300 title a year ago.

If they keep increasing prices, and we keep following, it's not gonna stop.

[cfunke]

I'm not sure why people are saying the price rises are sneaky and underhanded. They have to increase the prices, so they're finding ways to soften the blow.

I don't know nearly enough about the economics of comics to know if the rise to $4 is really needed, but that basically means Americans will now be paying what Brits have been paying for a couple of years and we Brits will now be paying even more! Whatever the reason it's blatantly too much and if I hadn't jumped to trades years ago I'd certainly be doing it now.

Read the solicitation for Ghost Boxes and then look at the actual product and tell me it's not sneaky and underhanded.

[uthor]

I'm not sure why people are saying the price rises are sneaky and underhanded. They have to increase the prices, so they're finding ways to soften the blow.

I don't know nearly enough about the economics of comics to know if the rise to $4 is really needed, but that basically means Americans will now be paying what Brits have been paying for a couple of years and we Brits will now be paying even more! Whatever the reason it's blatantly too much and if I hadn't jumped to trades years ago I'd certainly be doing it now.

Do you Brits have your own printing presses or are books shipped over from the US? (If shipped, do you get ads for things you can't buy?)

If the stuff if shipped, a higher price is certainly justified.

[dancj]

Read the solicitation for Ghost Boxes and then look at the actual product and tell me it's not sneaky and underhanded.
If that's the comic that was solicited as full length and then turned out to be 16 pages then yeah I agree that is bad. I didn't know about that when I posted my previous post.

Do you Brits have your own printing presses or are books shipped over from the US? (If shipped, do you get ads for things you can't buy?)

If the stuff if shipped, a higher price is certainly justified.
For the proper American comics they are shipped and we do get ads for things we can't buy. (I've never seen a Hostess Twinkie in my life!).

We do also have reprint comics by companies like Panini which put about three issues into one issue for a little bit more than one issue of the original American comics, but they only cover the big franchise characters (Superman/Batman/Spider-Man/X-Men).

[pmpknface]

Read the solicitation for Ghost Boxes and then look at the actual product and tell me it's not sneaky and underhanded.

That is 1 book, and not necessarily representative of the whole situation. Yes, that did totally suck as it was 16 pages, 2 stories, and had nearly nothing to do with advancing the overall story. FYI, here's the solicit:

ASTONISHING X-MEN: GHOST BOXES #1

COVER BY: SIMONE BIANCHI
WRITER: WARREN ELLIS
PENCILS: ALAN DAVIS
FRANK CHO
THE STORY:
You met Subject X in the pages of Astonishing X-Men! But what was he really doing and who he was doing it for? Find out in this essential 2-issue tie-in series to Warren Ellis and Simone Bianchi’s opening salvo on Astonishing X-Men! Ghost Boxes is about the choices that man made and could have made, and the ripples they cause. Ghost Boxes is about the real stakes of the Ghost Box storyline, and what will happen if the X-Men fail to solve the mystery.
Rated T+ …$3.99
IN STORES: October 29, 2008

The bulk of the $4 issues are either regular comic sized (32 pages) or larger. The major issue is REGULAR comics going to $4 and this was a freak issue.

[uthor]

For the proper American comics they are shipped and we do get ads for things we can't buy. (I've never seen a Hostess Twinkie in my life!).

I heard Oreos being sold over there was a big deal a short while ago.

If I were sure it'd pass customs, I'd mail you a Twinkee.

[dancj]

Yeah, we've had Oreos for a few years now - though I don't much like them myself

[Samy]

My key thought is that people need to also consider the quality.

If I have a least favorite writer A and a most favorite writer B, I certainly don't think A's work is as valuable as B's.

I'd pay $5 for a Geoff Johns issue. I wouldn't pay $2 for a Bruce Jones issue.

But people keep acting like the 32-page comic book has some kind of an inherent value regardless of the creators.

Some creators are more valuable than others. So the price increase is not too much for some creators, but is more than certain other creators are worth.

Which creators, specifically, we're talking about is a matter of personal subjective taste.

[jhota]

heh. Twinkies have a longer shelf life than comics, too...

[pmpknface]

My key thought is that people need to also consider the quality.

If I have a least favorite writer A and a most favorite writer B, I certainly don't think A's work is as valuable as B's.

I'd pay $5 for a Geoff Johns issue. I wouldn't pay $2 for a Bruce Jones issue.

But people keep acting like the 32-page comic book has some kind of an inherent value regardless of the creators.

Some creators are more valuable than others. So the price increase is not too much for some creators, but is more than certain other creators are worth.

Which creators, specifically, we're talking about is a matter of personal subjective taste.

I understand what you're saying, but you don't know the quality when you pre-order it. Not every Buseik issue is a winner, even though some are worth $5 or more. You just don't know that until afterward. But standard 32 page comics for $4 is just not cool, I don't care how you slice it.

Is there anyone else out there who also can do without cardstock covers? Or Glossy ones? Wouldn't you rather have no-frills books cheaper than $4 ones with Marvel Knights style covers???

[kevhines]

I will probably keep getting the higher priced Trades, because I stupidly forget to check the price of those a lot. Though even that might wear me down and make me buy fewer.

But I buy so few floppies! Nova, Guardian of the Galaxy, Ambush Bug, and Booster Gold are the only 3 big two books I got as floppies in the last two months!

I probably am dropping Booster Gold now that Remender's issues are over. Less due to Dan Jurgens, and more due to Didio not earning my trust to keep a non-Geoff creative team along.
Ambush Bug is a limited series.

If Nova and GofG go up to 3.99 I will switch to the trade for both. Though I am curious over how they will be collected during War of Kings (which I am excited about.)
Truthfully I am considering switch to the trade now for both those books - but I don't WANT to.

Other then that what floppies do I get? Firebreather, Jack Staff. Gemini. Perhapanuats.

That's all I see that I have got since August.

[torippu]

Is there anyone else out there who also can do without cardstock covers? Or Glossy ones? Wouldn't you rather have no-frills books cheaper than $4 ones with Marvel Knights style covers???

Absolutely!!!! This was my big complaint with all of the recent Marvel event books. It is a normal sized comic (outside of the first and last issues), with a cardstock cover and it is $1 more. I'd much rather have a normal cover and a $2.99 price point.

I wonder if the idea of Marvel is to keep all current ongoing books at $2.99 and to start charging $3.99 for new ongoing series released in 2009?

[pmpknface]

Absolutely!!!! This was my big complaint with all of the recent Marvel event books. It is a normal sized comic (outside of the first and last issues), with a cardstock cover and it is $1 more. I'd much rather have a normal cover and a $2.99 price point.

I wonder if the idea of Marvel is to keep all current ongoing books at $2.99 and to start charging $3.99 for new ongoing series released in 2009?
I hope not. I can't wait for AGENTS OF ATLAS!!!!

But it's good to know I've got backup on that.

[sschroeder]

Absolutely!!!! This was my big complaint with all of the recent Marvel event books. It is a normal sized comic (outside of the first and last issues), with a cardstock cover and it is $1 more. I'd much rather have a normal cover and a $2.99 price point.

After Secret Invasion # 1, I realized that the rest of the series would be a dollar more for regular size, so I didn't buy any of the subsequent issues. I know, as others have mentioned, that page count does not equal worth, but there is a point where I can't, in good conscience, pay so much. Based on House of M, Civil War, and WWH (where I had already mostly bailed and didn't buy the main series), these blockbuster series were not quite worth it for me.

I pretty much stopped reading, following and buying comics for the last three months or so as well, and now I see, catching up a bit with the solicits that these higher prices are really creeping in now more widely to the bigger publishers.

I currently buy only in store and at full price, so this matters to me. I've used mail order at times in the past, but that makes it harder to quit at the drop of the hat, and my store is excellent, so there wasn't any need to combat patchy coverage there. Spending in the local economy is a plus as well. I'm almost getting forced to looking into mail order again, or sort of continually half-quitting.


I wonder if the idea of Marvel is to keep all current ongoing books at $2.99 and to start charging $3.99 for new ongoing series released in 2009?

This is exactly what I'd expect. Low sellers like New Exiles and She-Hulk will get (re)launched at $3.99. I think we've seen this at other previous price increases. Consumer reaction would be that this would drive sales even lower. But business wise I think they believe this is what is needed to produce the books at such low volume. They think people who want those stories will pay. It is a potentially vicious cycle, if you ask me.


I hope not. I can't wait for AGENTS OF ATLAS!!!!

I bet Agents will go down to 32 pages for future issues and stay at $3.99 (unless they print some of the back up material from the HC throughout perhaps?). I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Sad to see Agents and Kingbreaker at this price point though. I've been following those stories and characters and enjoying them, so I might actually pay for these. At least Kingbreaker is limited (the Agents solicit has fewer than usual details). So I'm not paying these prices monthly out toward the end of time or cancellation, whichever comes first. That makes it a bit better, hopefully sparing me paying for fill in issues and lesser art as well. I'm not against regular ongoing quality product for characters I want to follow, but this is just not a reality in modern comics. Usually the artists will just not be able to keep a monthly schedule, so quality will waver. Sometimes this is fine, but usually it makes me reconsider spending my money.

I'll probably never quit single issue comics completely until they stop making them, if ever. I'll just enjoy fewer and fewer of them. (Unless money, interest and time for reading, and storage space cease to become an issue which probably will never happen.)

On the bright side, fuel prices have fallen dramatically of late, so perhaps a line wide hike to $3.99 can be averted for a little bit longer.

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

The big diff between trades and single issues is that it's a lot easier to get trades and HCs at steep discounts with no shipping fees. I think more people shop Amazon than, for example, In Stock Trades.

So even if Marvel Premiere HC prices go up to $23, it's still in the ballpark of affordability. A monthly $3.99 book is ridiculous.

And I know we say this EVERYTIME a comic goes up in price, but I'm sticking by it this time.

-Augie

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Chris Marshall for the win:

http://www.collectedcomicslibrary.com/2008/11/21/see-if-this-makes-any-sense/

Marvel TPB prices are disturbing, to say the least. Glad someone broke it down for us.

-Augie

[sschroeder]

The big diff between trades and single issues is that it's a lot easier to get trades and HCs at steep discounts with no shipping fees. I think more people shop Amazon than, for example, In Stock Trades.

Definitely. I didn't clarify it above, but I was talking strictly about single issues. For trades, I go to Amazon when I do buy them.

Comic stores seem to make little effort to compete with Amazon on trade price. Not sure why.


A monthly $3.99 book is ridiculous.

And I know we say this EVERYTIME a comic goes up in price, but I'm sticking by it this time.

On top of everything else it just ruins impulse buying. Which was part of the fun of going to the store at one time.

[torippu]

I hope not. I can't wait for AGENTS OF ATLAS!!!!


I've heard nothing but good things about this book but am going to have a hard time giving the next mini-series (or is it ongoing) a try at the more expensive price.

[torippu]

I think more people shop Amazon than, for example, In Stock Trades.

-Augie

I use both sites but am more likely to get my trades through Amazon. Yes, the discounts aren't as good but it is nice to be able to pre-order the books and get them shipped to me at no cost (well, after a certain point that is) being an Amazon Prime member.

[torippu]

Chris Marshall for the win:

http://www.collectedcomicslibrary.com/2008/11/21/see-if-this-makes-any-sense/

Marvel TPB prices are disturbing, to say the least. Glad someone broke it down for us.

-Augie

I noticed that the most recent ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN HC has already gone up in price. Didn't they used to be $29.99 and now are $39.99? To bring it all back, I'm not sure how my LCS can compete with an online retailer in this format when the maximum discount given is 20%.

[uthor]

I noticed that the most recent ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN HC has already gone up in price. Didn't they used to be $29.99 and now are $39.99? To bring it all back, I'm not sure how my LCS can compete with an online retailer in this format when the maximum discount given is 20%.

It sounds like the reprints of Absolute Sandman volume 1 are going to cost retailers $10 more per copy, so a lot of places (possibly even Amazon) are dropping the 30% discount and charging the full $99 MSRP.

[dancj]

It's tricky with TPBs.

Basically (discounting things like traditional first TPB at $10 rule that Vertigo use) with each book they have to decide whether the book is
A - A book with a small market (thereby making low prices unpractical), but hardcore enough that those who want to buy it will pay whatever you charge.
B - A book with a big market which will be affected heavily by the price
C - A book with a big market which won't be affected heavily by the price.
D - A book with a small market which will get even smaller if the book is pricey.

If they think it's A, the only option is to bring out a pricey book.

If they think it's B, then they'll probably want to keep the price low because that's what will bring in the most money.

If they think it's C then they could go low or high with the price. In my experience, Marvel seem more likely to go high with these ones than DC. I don't know which approach brings in the most money.

If they think it's D then the book just won't be profitable to produce at all.

I don't think it's really fair to look at just the price and page count to judge how fair a price is. That said I do think it's fair to criticise over the top prices for obvious high sellers - such as the Civil War TPB which is 208 pages for $25 when I have no doubt they could bring in a tidy profit at half that price.

[Billy Parker]

Subscriptions on Marvel.com and Dccomics.com are the cheapest way to go!

Hi Augie. What are your thoughts on subscriptions? I've never heard a podcaster or journalist once mention the benefits of subscribing. $19.99 for 12 issues is about $1.60-$1.70 an issue vs. $3.99 plus tax on each comic you'll get at the store. That's a HUGE savings. I get 10 or 12 Marvel comics that way. I just get non-subscription stuff (SI, etc.) in store.

Furthermore, Marvel offers ASM and others in packs of 36 issues for $49.99! That's more than a 50% discount. With the jump in price, it's closer to a 75% discount!

One thing to watch will be if the subscription prices will rise as well? From $19.99 to say $24.99? That would be a significant jump. Hopefully they'll only move to $20.99 or so.

The people that complain like crazy need to subscribe because there is no excuse for people that complain about prices but don't take the solution.

Subscriptions seriously need to be commented on by Augie and others.

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Generally, the problem with susbcriptions is that they arrive damaged in your mail box, and often weeks after the issue hits stands. At least, that's what I recall from the last time anyone talked about subs, years ago. Has that changed significantly? Is the USPS handling their mail better? Is the packaging better? Is the timing closer to comic shops now?

-Augie

[torippu]

I'd also like to know how Marvel runs their subscriptions these days. The last time I subscribed to something from them was probably G.I. Joe back in the late-80s and I'm pretty sure that the books arrived with a plain brown wrapper and were usually bent in two by the postman.

[Billy Parker]

Generally, the problem with susbcriptions is that they arrive damaged in your mail box, and often weeks after the issue hits stands. At least, that's what I recall from the last time anyone talked about subs, years ago. Has that changed significantly? Is the USPS handling their mail better? Is the packaging better? Is the timing closer to comic shops now?

-Augie

Marvel does a great job. The postman...not so much. They arrive usually on time now. (I've subscribed for 2 years now) Sometimes 2 days early, or 2 days late is the typical range. It could even be a week early or late. Random, not common.

It's wrapped in plastic with a cardboard back with Marvel sub info printed on it. The condition is usually perfect. But it depends on your postman and the size of your mailbox. But Marvel is great about re-sending comics when there is a problem.

Despite that, the price is far superior to what you pay in store. In these times where everyone talks price and dropping books, you could add books by moving to the subscription price. A 40%-50% discount? Definitely worth what you pay.

[pmpknface]

Cool. Thanks for the info BP! ;)