She Hulk Cancelled

[Shadowstray]

They just solicited the last issue:

SHE-HULK #38
Written by PETER DAVID
Penciled by STEVE SCOTT
Cover by DAVID WILLIAMS
SHE-HULK R.I.P.!
She's been savage. She's been sensational. She's been an avenger. She's been a lawyer. She's been a bounty-hunter. But there's one thing She-Hulk has always been, in all of her many series... cancelled. But it hasn't stopped her yet! In this oversized final issue, Peter David brings his run on the Jade Giantess to a close... but can Jen use her last remaining pages to save her friends from a truly mammoth threat? Catch her now, before someone turns her red!
48 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99

The few titles I buy from Marvel just got minuscule for me. It wouldn't surprise me if Jeph Loeb has requested to have Shulke become a full-time second banana on his Hulk/Rulk title.

[CMBMOOL]

I mean What in the world happen ? :eek:


http://marvel.com/comics/onsale/lib/view2.htm?filename=/comics/onsale/covers/0209/SHEHULK038_cov.jpg

HE-HULK R.I.P.!
She's been savage. She's been sensational. She's been an avenger. She's been a lawyer. She's been a bounty-hunter. But there's one thing She-Hulk has always been, in all of her many series... cancelled. But it hasn't stopped her yet! In this oversized final issue, Peter David brings his run on the Jade Giantess to a close... but can Jen use her last remaining pages to save her friends from a truly mammoth threat? Catch her now, before someone turns her red!
Rated T+ …$3.99


http://marvel.com/catalog/?id=11144

[Dagger]

That sucks! She-Hulk is way better than Ms. Marvel! Whatever, Marvel! PAD! I AM SOOO PI$$ED OFF RIGHT NOW!!!

[Eye in the Sky]

I feel bad for the fans of this series.

But with every death comes rebirth...

I suggest replacing this slot in your pull list with X-Men First Class Finals.

[rajincajun689]

Figures they cancel the good Hulk book as opposed to Loeb's steaming pile of sh*t.

[Dagger]

I feel bad for the fans of this series.

But with every death comes rebirth...

I suggest replacing this slot in your pull list with X-Men First Class Finals.
You First Class Pusher! Get your claws out of my sorrowful psyche! LOL. Besides, I'll replace it with a Darkhawk series if one springs up from War of Kings.

[CMBMOOL]

FOrget that with this title being cancel and Spider-girl being canceled next month, why the only titles to read are just GoG, Nova, and Hercules, unless something else big happens in the regular Marvel Universe for me to read. :frown:

I mean I'm still consdiering several X-titles, but that's if the stories are good enough.

[seeso]

LAME! It's not like i didn't see this coming, though. PAD has been geeting shafted on the art for this title for awhile, you can read the writing on the walls. He deserves better than this.

[Dagger]

Figures they cancel the good Hulk book as opposed to Loeb's steaming pile of sh*t.
Agreed. I can't believe I have to read Rulk to see Jen.:mad:

[Eye in the Sky]

You First Class Pusher! Get your claws out of my sorrowful psyche! LOL. Besides, I'll replace it with a Darkhawk series if one springs up from War of Kings.

It'll be awhile before titles spring outta the War of Kings and XFCF is only a 4 issue mini.

[Dagger]

It'll be awhile before titles spring outta the War of Kings and XFCF is only a 4 issue mini.
lol. Don't try to tempt me, you southern seductor of sexy titles!!!! Who's on art for that series?

[Libaax]

Talk about horrible timing for me i just became a She-Hulk fan thanks to trying it out cause of PAD. I loved it. It was pure fan,interesting characters in Jen,Jaz.


So i loose Blue Beetle,Manhunter,She-Hulk in like a month. No place for pure fun comics in the big two apparently.

They touch Herkules i will fricking snap !

[Eye in the Sky]

lol. Don't try to tempt me, you southern seductor of sexy titles!!!! Who's on art for that series?

The talented, much improved since his two issue run with Milligan, Roger Cruz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1363/greatestthingeverrd8.jpg

[Shadowstray]

As I stated in a prior post, I wouldn't be surprised if She Hulk will now become just window dressing on Jeph Loeb's Hulk/Rulk title. I shouldn't be surprised by this. According to the new Diamond sales chart (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/081118-diamond-sales-october.html), She Hulk didn't even make the top 100 list.

Ah well, that just means fewer titles to purchase on my end.

[passer-by]

"...before someone turns her red" :eek:
So under PAD She-Hulk has low sales and they might send her over to Loeb's Rulk that is selling much better.
If Loeb has better sales than PAD something is definitely wrong with the average comics buyer.

[Qoorl]

Look on the Bright Side! This COULD be just gearing up for Slott's Reckoning War or A Lady Liberators Mini or Ongoing. Of course it could be just adding a permanent Cast Member to the Merry Adventures of the Hulks (Red, Fixit, Savage, Professor, Gravage, Devil etc. I do think Loeb might be using a different Hulk persona for every arc... guess we'll just have to wait and see.).

[steveg887]

Maybe Slott will put her on his MA team.

[ZeoVGM]

Complete bullshit.

They revamp Black Panther, which is never good, yet cancel one of their best books?

I hope this at least means she's going to be on one of the Avengers teams.

[CMBMOOL]

Complete bullshit.

They revamp Black Panther, which is never good, yet cancel one of their best books?

I hope this at least means she's going to be on one of the Avengers teams.
After what the Skrulls did ?

I would be thinking that she and Jaz hit the road again and be like BJ and the Bear but with a RV instead of a truck.

[I am MODOK]

I suppose it is too much to hope for that Slott has her on his Mighty Avengers team? That makes too much sense, doesn't it?

PAD's run was never as good as I hoped it would be. Jaz never really caught my interest, and she had such a huge role it was difficult to get through some of the issues. The bounty hunter aspect never really felt that true for the character either. I still bought every issue though, and I think PAD was on to something with this Lady Liberators arc. I'd love to see that team picked up in some other title (either ongoing or mini).

I do find it hard to believe that this title got cancelled over the truly average Ms. Marvel.

[Spiffy]

So much stuff is getting cancelled lately at the big two. It's insane.

[Venom Melendez]

My guess is that she will be a regular in the Hulk comic.

[Libaax]

What wil take the place of series like this ? A 7th Batman,spidey,x-men.

The big two overrate the sales number these days. They are crazy if they expect every comic out there of theirs will sell 30k+......

[ZeoVGM]

Figures they cancel the good Hulk book as opposed to Loeb's steaming pile of sh*t.

Ew, let's try to keep this crap out of here. The Loeb book is good. Huge fun every month. There's a reason why it keeps selling so well. If it sucked, sales would suffer over time, but people enjoy reading it.

[Spiffy]

Ew, let's try to keep this crap out of here. The Loeb book is good. Huge fun every month. There's a reason why it keeps selling so well. If it sucked, sales would suffer over time, but people enjoy reading it.
It sells well because Loeb is connected to Heroes, and because its an over-the-top splashy book. Also, its a "male" hero, which sells better than a female fronted book.

As for "keeping the crap out", although rajincajun689 perhaps was a bit crude, he's got a right to his opinion.

[Rev. Calibos]

Ew, let's try to keep this crap out of here. The Loeb book is good. Huge fun every month. There's a reason why it keeps selling so well. If it sucked, sales would suffer over time, but people enjoy reading it.


I concur. I pick it up every month not for the weighty content offered up with every issue but for the sheer, over the top popcorn value.

Not every book is going to be a Watchmen nor does every film have to be a Schindler's List. Sometimes you just want to sit back, get some popcorn and watch Snakes on a Plane. You KNOW it's horrible but you just can't look away.....

Hulk is the Snakes on a Plane of the current batch of books Marvel puts out.

[Venom Melendez]

What wil take the place of series like this ? A 7th Batman,spidey,x-men.

The big two overrate the sales number these days. They are crazy if they expect every comic out there of theirs will sell 30k+......



This is business though so of course they will care if something sells well or not.

[Grapeweasel]

I've never been fond of the title character, but somehow they managed to turn out an entertaining comic in spite of that.

[pariah-1972]

So much stuff is getting cancelled lately at the big two. It's insane.I know ! what is up with that?!?! and it's almost all the female driven titles it seems.

Sexist !!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Libaax]

This is business though so of course they will care if something sells well or not.

Duh ! :P

Did i say they dont care ?

I said they overrate what they see as bad numbers. If they limit themselves to the top 20,30 comics series wise they will make alot less money.

[Mr. Cakes]

This is ridiculous.

She-Hulk got a huge bump in sales from Secret Invasion and the new art team. She sold more than Ms. Marvel, which continues to go on. It's irritating that they get rid of this yet keep Black Panther and other not-nearly-as-interesting male superhero books that sell about the same.

If a Lady Liberators series doesn't spawn from this, or She-Hulk doesn't move onto Slott's Avengers, I'll probably stop buying comics regularly and only buy for my various D-Listers' appearances.

[Karthak]

Bah. She-hulk is much better than both Ms. Marvel and Black Panther, yet it is getting canceled....

By the way, I heard that they're revamping Black Panther, but keeping Hudlin as writer. How does that make sense? It's because of Hudlins writing that the series is getting changed in the first place...

[Deathstroke]

I'm convinced the comic companies just don't want my money anymore.

[YoungG03]

actually i figger it would get canceled. Its an aight book but i feel its story could be filler somewhere else.

[Shyft]

They couldn't have let it run to 40? seems a little harsh.

[Doc Goblin]

This is too bad. I've been a fan of PAD's run on this. Even enjoyed Slott's issues. I did see the cancellation coming though.

I'm not going to get into too big of an uproar over this. I can't say that Marvel didn't try or put the effort into She-Hulk. The Deodato covers were always fantastic, and the interior art during PAD's run has been consistently pretty good too. Marvel did pump in some effort here.

But it is weird that Marvel is so quick to axe it. I can only imagine that She-Hulk's sales on #34 dropped like a rock to the pre-SI level. Sure, Black Panther does that every single time new readers try it out, but Marvel has some kind of strange and undying commitment Hudlin's BP.

I'm running out of Hulk stuff to read. I guess I still have Skaar.

[Shadowstray]

Response from Peter himself from his blog (http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/index.html):

Yeah, She-Hulk's canceled

I've known about it for a couple months but didn't say anything because I'm not big on making with the bad news.

I have to admit, I'm shocked. Shocked. The market has always been so supportive of books with female leads, and She-Hulk has never had a title canceled out from under her before, so I could never have seen this coming.

PAD

[ClassicAdamWoodard]

My girlfriend is going to be very upset about this. She-Hulk is her favorite monthly title, her favorite character in fact. Well considering Nightwing just got the ax as well, I'm sure that we will be able to share in our sorrows.

[Splatt]

Dear She Hulk

It is sad to see your title axed but dems the breaks. 'bye.

<3 Splatt.

[sHayden]

I'm convinced the comic companies just don't want my money anymore.

This is a sentiment I share. I felt this way a couple of months ago when DC cancelled Catwoman. Thankfully Gail Simone stepped in with Secret Six, which I happen to think is a great book. But unless Slott places her in a role on MA, I don't see Marvel putting up something that will really get my attention.
I can only offer one suggestion to let She-Hulk survive and be awesome. Call Warren Ellis and tell him to start writing it.

[pariah-1972]

This is too bad. I've been a fan of PAD's run on this. Even enjoyed Slott's issues. I did see the cancellation coming though.

I'm not going to get into too big of an uproar over this. I can't say that Marvel didn't try or put the effort into She-Hulk. The Deodato covers were always fantastic, and the interior art during PAD's run has been consistently pretty good too. Marvel did pump in some effort here.

But it is weird that Marvel is so quick to axe it. I can only imagine that She-Hulk's sales on #34 dropped like a rock to the pre-SI level. Sure, Black Panther does that every single time new readers try it out, but Marvel has some kind of strange and undying commitment Hudlin's BP.
I'm running out of Hulk stuff to read. I guess I still have Skaar.I know this is gonna come out bad but maybe it's affirmative action?

[Kage Kisaragi]

I love all your pain people, it kind of justifies everything I've said prior to this point. Yes, whine and cry about Ms Marvel, and Black Panther all you want, thing is though neither of those titles are a spin off of a current title. Three people felt they needed to moan that BP was still on going despite Hudlin was writing it but kindly forgot that BP's sales even before his coming on board were still low if not abysmal, how surprising. To Pariah, did you realize that BP was being restarted with a female lead, yeah kind of kills your sexist stand point.

Difference between Ms Marvel and She-Hulk, she is being written consistantly within all the titles she appears in, She-Hulk was not. Was Davids writing on She-Hulk superbad? No, but it wasn't stellar either. She-Hulk wasn't even a serious title when it started up. All it did was reconnt some better known moments in its run, and sponge a few sales from tie ins. It introduced one new character whos novelty wore off way to quick. Especially when you consider how many Skrulls were starting to pop up in other titles (Runaways, Initiative, Young Avengers).

The title pretty much sealed its fate the moment the title character said she was out of the Superhero game. It might have sounded like a cool character concept and it probably would have worked with a bigger hero, but that kind of foci for story writing and using such a bit character was a formula for fail. Now I like She-Hulk, but I see her for what she is.. Shes a bit character who best works in short runs that cater to a running gag and or the solid time proven formula "hero smash villain while dealing with the rigors of life". Not self serving b**** whos looking to make a few bucks in a 'Boys on the side' type of manner.

Do I see She-Hulk coming back in some teambook or making a few guest appearances in other titles? sure.. its what she does. Till then I'll just sit back and whistle innocently and well as the saying goes.. "I told you so."

[grphxkindaguy]

eh, I dropped it after Slott left (and I barely held on, even then), so its been dead to me anyway.

Read the first few issues of PAD's run @my LCS (to see if it improved), saw it got even worse...

[Kage Kisaragi]

I know this is gonna come out bad but maybe it's affirmative action?

Or maybe its because MARVEL HAS PUSHED MINORITY CHARACTERS MORE AND HAVE BEEN GIVING THEM MORE LEAD-WAY KNOWING THAT THEIR AUDIENCE IS RELATIVELY SMALLER TO BEGIN WITH. You guys are a piece of work you know that. Geniuses all of you.

[Kage Kisaragi]

eh, I dropped it after Slott left (and I barely held on, even then), so its been dead to me anyway.

Read the first few issues of PAD's run @my LCS (to see if it improved), saw it got even worse...

I take it you're not a blind follower of PAD's?

[Spiffy]

I know ! what is up with that?!?! and it's almost all the female driven titles it seems.

Sexist !!:mad: :mad: :mad:
I know! I'm gonna miss that Robin chick! And Nightwing? Very girly! Blue Beetle? Ditto!

But yeah. I suppose Birds of Prey, She-Hulk, Manhunter, Catwoman, Spider-Girl... arguably the female corpses ARE piling up. Have I missed any?

Bah. She-hulk is much better than both Ms. Marvel and Black Panther, yet it is getting canceled....

By the way, I heard that they're revamping Black Panther, but keeping Hudlin as writer. How does that make sense? It's because of Hudlins writing that the series is getting changed in the first place...

Hudlin has some kind of svengali power, which makes editors ignore how much he sucks!

[Mr. Cakes]

Or maybe its because MARVEL HAS PUSHED MINORITY CHARACTERS MORE AND HAVE BEEN GIVING THEM MORE LEAD-WAY KNOWING THAT THEIR AUDIENCE IS RELATIVELY SMALLER TO BEGIN WITH. You guys are a piece of work you know that. Geniuses all of you.

I take it you're not a blind follower of PAD's?

GTFO. Seriously.

[pariah-1972]

I love all your pain people, it kind of justifies everything I've said prior to this point. Yes, whine and cry about Ms Marvel, and Black Panther all you want, thing is though neither of those titles are a spin off of a current title. Three people felt they needed to moan that BP was still on going despite Hudlin was writing it but kindly forgot that BP's sales even before his coming on board were still low if not abysmal, how surprising. To Pariah, did you realize that BP was being restarted with a female lead, yeah kind of kills your sexist stand point.

."Yeah and well see how long that lasts eh? if you look at all the cancelled books a majority of them are female lead.

[Doc Goblin]

I know this is gonna come out bad but maybe it's affirmative action?

I guess it could be looked at that way. I doubt Marvel is willing to give up on their only ongoing starring a black character very easily. But for whatever the reasons are, I think Marvel just made a commitment to Hudlin's BP and are sticking to their guns until they've exhausted all possibilities for making it work. It's not reasonable for them to do that with every single struggling title, so there are others, like She-Hulk, that they just have to let go. It probably is worth more to Marvel to have a healthy BP title than a She-Hulk one.

It's weird that PAD says he's known about the cancellation for a couple months. Does that mean Marvel put the axe to it before even knowing how well it would fare after its Secret Invasion boost or would they already have the sales data by that time?

[pariah-1972]

I guess it could be looked at that way. I doubt Marvel is willing to give up on their only ongoing starring a black character very easily. But for whatever the reasons are, I think Marvel just made a commitment to Hudlin's BP and are sticking to their guns until they've exhausted all possibilities for making it work. It's not reasonable for them to do that with every single struggling title, so there are others, like She-Hulk, that they just have to let go. It probably is worth more to Marvel to have a healthy BP title than a She-Hulk one.

It's weird that PAD says he's known about the cancellation for a couple months. Does that mean Marvel put the axe to it before even knowing how well it would fare after its Secret Invasion boost or would they already have the sales data by that time?Well looking at it that way Bp is supposed to have his own cartoon on B.e.t and that might help raise his profile in the superhero world and the only other african american writer they have right now is Kevin Grevioux who is doing the Blue Marvel thing and doesn't have the name recognition of Hudlin.

[Froggy]

did someone on here just, in all seirousness say a writer at marvel is still writing cause of affirmative action?:rolleyes:

please tell me you're joking

[Doc Goblin]

Well looking at it that way Bp is supposed to have his own cartoon on B.e.t and that might help raise his profile in the superhero world and the only other african american writer they have right now is Kevin Grevioux who is doing the Blue Marvel thing and doesn't have the name recognition of Hudlin.

Yeah. That makes some sense. They would want to wait and see if the cartoon has any effect on the readership. But concerning replacing Hudlin eventually, I never saw any reason Black Panther can't be written by a white guy. Jason Aaron did a fine job with his short BP arc. I bet Fraction could do some interesting things with the book. I would kill to see what Ellis would do to define Wakandan technology and culture.

I wonder if She-Hulk will end up on Mighty Avengers. Because it seems like it would have been worth giving her book a little more time then to see if that extra exposure helped out her readership. It couldn't have helped her sales much to have the character so disconnected from things.

Yeah, probably should've kept Shulkie lawyer instead of a roaming bounty hunter in hindsight. Like a gamma-irradiated cast member of Boston Legal.

[Froggy]

did someone on here just, in all seirousness say a writer at marvel is still writing cause of affirmative action?:rolleyes:

please tell me you're joking
???

I mean, it's not like Reggie Hudlin has a a$$load of cash or anything right?

he's just a downtrodden brotha trying to get a job O LAWDY:rolleyes:

[Eye in the Sky]

So much stuff is getting cancelled lately at the big two. It's insane.

I know ! what is up with that?!?! and it's almost all the female driven titles it seems.

Sexist !!:mad: :mad: :mad:

I would say that with comic sales down all around, it's just not worth it, financially, to keep struggling titles.

I know this is gonna come out bad but maybe it's affirmative action?

Can't be, that ended when Barack Obama became President.This is a joke.

[Froggy]

but seriously?

you ccant honestly be thinking that

[Kage Kisaragi]

It's weird that PAD says he's known about the cancellation for a couple months. Does that mean Marvel put the axe to it before even knowing how well it would fare after its Secret Invasion boost or would they already have the sales data by that time?

highly unlikely, but PAD is known for coming up with excuses when it best suits him and of course keeps him looking like a Deer in the Headlights with the fans.

knew this was going to happen. Marvel publishes issue #22 with three different covers which naturally inflates sales, and when #23 comes out without variant covers, fans pop up like whack-a-moles and say, "See! See! Sales are dropping!"

None the less the drop was 30% according to Lcv2:rolleyes:

[ZeoVGM]

I take it you're not a blind follower of PAD's?

All you need to be is a blind follower of good comic books to like this book.

[Enyo]

Dear Marvel,

YOU SUCK! At least have Jen join one of the Avengers teams.

Signed,

Frazzled female comic reader holding her freak flag high
:confused:... :mad: ... :evilangry:

[Kage Kisaragi]

All you need to be is a blind follower of good comic books to like this book.

See thats the thing, apparently to the number of buyers, it was okay at best, but never good. However those of you that enjoyed it obviously see it as more than just okay. This is fine, but it should have no bearing on whether other books should have been cancelled first or should have gotten less lead-way.

[ANewHope]

Well this is dissapointing, as I loved She-Hulk's secret invasion tie-ins.

But honestly, I didn't have the extra cash to pay for the series after SI ended.

I like her as a character, but sadly, I think of her as nonessential.

I actually support Ms. Marvel, I jumped on with issue 20 remained after SI finished. I even bought that Ms Marvel Storyteller one shot, and the annual with Spiderman.

I also hate how Black Panther and New Exiles are being reset with the same creators coming back. I suppose being reset is definitely much better than being cancelled, but I'm finding it to be really annoying.

But overall, these resets and cancellations feel very artificial and shouldn't be happening unless Marvel is actually losing money by producing these titles.

[passer-by]

I also hate how Black Panther and New Exiles are being reset with the same creators coming back. I suppose being reset is definitely much better than being cancelled, but I'm finding it to be really annoying.

But overall, these resets and cancellations feel very artificial and shouldn't be happening unless Marvel is actually losing money by producing these titles.I don't know about Black Panther, but as for New Exiles, are you sure it's being reset, and with the same creators at that? True, the solicit of #18 could be interpreted as if it might be reset, but I'm not sure this is officially announced. And for the creators, aren't you just guessing?
So wait and see for now.

[Mark_S]

Well darn. It seems like everytime PAD gets his hands on a good character and starts to make progress this happens.

Mark_S

[akumasan]

Hmm Sum of the thread
1. Hudlin banter check (almost 3 pages of whining)
OOOOO!! I know!!!! How about people just create a I HATE HUDLIN THREAD to make you all feel better to get your rants out. LOL But wait that is the BP appreciation thread isnt it? :rolleyes:
2. Better than ms marvel check
3. Loeb stinks check
4. Some who are complaining about the book but never read it check




Im surprised no post about Priest yet

[passer-by]

Well darn. It seems like everytime PAD gets his hands on a good character and starts to make progress this happens.

Mark_SDon't say that, you got me worried about X-Factor. :biggrin:

[Mark_S]

Don't say that, you got me worried about X-Factor. :biggrin:

I am. Jen could move over to that book, though I doubt it. I'd had to have her in one of the Avenger books though, better not to be written at all than to be written badly.

Mark_S

[spidervenom]

if only they could of bumped it up to max status, get frank cho to draw, and have a 3-D issue, then this book would be outselling Hulk 3:1

[pariah-1972]

did someone on here just, in all seirousness say a writer at marvel is still writing cause of affirmative action?:rolleyes:

please tell me you're jokingI was somewhat joking...

[passer-by]

I am. Jen could move over to that book, though I doubt it. I'd had to have her in one of the Avenger books though, better not to be written at all than to be written badly.

Mark_SNo, I meant - you got me worried that X-Factor could have the same fate as She-Hulk. I know, I know, that is much more unlikely... but there's still a slight nagging doubt now. :biggrin:

[b4ustandsi]

im in the minority here but the stories really dropped when pad took over. this doesnt come as a surprise to me

[Kage Kisaragi]

Well darn. It seems like everytime PAD gets his hands on a good character and starts to make progress this happens.

Mark_S

Take off the rose colored glasses dude... Editors read months in advance what their writing staff is going to put out, but against gut intuition they usually put it out and see what the fans think, unless they really really don't like whats written and in this day and age that only happens when it doesn't reflect company interest. So I found what you said kind of laughable. The funny part being is that She Hulk already had a steadily established character plot and path that she could have taken and to be honest it would have been equal if not better (better considering the title is getting cancelled.) than that was given. I mean seriously what progress did he make? The only questions brought up were the ones he made up, the only progress made was the set backs he created.

[Froggy]

I was somewhat joking...

somewhat?

cause to even be halfway serious, that would be a dumba#$$ statement

[Kage Kisaragi]

No, I meant - you got me worried that X-Factor could have the same fate as She-Hulk. I know, I know, that is much more unlikely... but there's still a slight nagging doubt now. :biggrin:

that could only happen if PAD started writing it along the same lines as he wrote She-Hulk.

[Michael P]

Insert the profanity of your choice here.

[Mark_S]

Take off the rose colored glasses dude... Editors read months in advance what their writing staff is going to put out, but against gut intuition they usually put it out and see what the fans think, unless they really really don't like whats written and in this day and age that only happens when it doesn't reflect company interest. So I found what you said kind of laughable. The funny part being is that She Hulk already had a steadily established character plot and path that she could have taken and to be honest it would have been equal if not better (better considering the title is getting cancelled.) than that was given. I mean seriously what progress did he make? The only questions brought up were the ones he made up, the only progress made was the set backs he created.

That's a matter of opinion. I liked what he was doing with the character, I liked it far more than the ditz that she was at times during the last run and the victim she became when Tony blindsided her. What did you expect after the dumbness in cw and then the sex/depowerment story; that she'd go right back to being a superhero?

Mark_S

[Mark_S]

No, I meant - you got me worried that X-Factor could have the same fate as She-Hulk. I know, I know, that is much more unlikely... but there's still a slight nagging doubt now. :biggrin:

It's not all sales, sometimes it's how much money marvel has to put into titles and how much pull a writer has. We'll never know for sure why. X-Factor could go just as easily as She-Hulk.

Mark_S

[steveg887]

Insert the profanity of your choice here.

Cock. Balls.

[GHalecki]

somewhat?

cause to even be halfway serious, that would be a dumba#$$ statement

Exactly how dumbass is it to say that Marvel might consider it a PR mess if someone notices that they have a single African American writer on their whole staff? And that consideration may influence their choice to keep a title that is borderline in circulation and keep that particular writing it?

Books have been kept going and books have been canceled over the years for a whole variety of reasons in the past that are not directly related to the circulation.

Marvel is a big company in the public eye, and they do have to keep things like this in mind. Even the NFL as completely assinine rules regarding race in hiring a head coach.
In the NFL, an owner can decide "hey! I just fired my coach. I know just the guy that I want to hire, and he would love to come work for me."
But he can't just hire him if he's white. Nope. He is MANDATED by the NFL to interview a minority coach for the position, even if he has ZERO chance of getting the job.

So suggesting that the fact that the charachter and the writer are black might have been at least considered in deciding not to kill the book actually is in no way assinine.

Personally, I love the Panther, and I don't care why he is getting another shot, as long as he is.

[Ex_]

im in the minority here but the stories really dropped when pad took over. this doesnt come as a surprise to me

I feel the same way. I friggin loved Slott's She-Hulk runs, and I seriously didn't understand how Jen fit in as a bounty hunter. I think PAD is a good writer, and since I've started reading X-Factor, I've loved it, it's my favorite X-Title. However, I'm seriously not up in arms about She-Hulk being cancelled. I mean, what REALLY got done since PAD started his run?

[pariah-1972]

somewhat?

cause to even be halfway serious, that would be a dumba#$$ statementReally why would you say that for? Bp has been very low selling to the point on cancellation for a long time but the book hasn't been cancelled and Hudlin hasn't been replaced.


Can you think of any other reasons besides political correctness for them to keep him on the book?

[Eye in the Sky]

Really why would you say that for? Bp has been very low selling to the point on cancellation for a long time but the book hasn't been cancelled and Hudlin hasn't been replaced.


Can you think of any other reasons besides political correctness for them to keep him on the book?

The same reason Chris Claremont keeps getting books.

[Kage Kisaragi]

That's a matter of opinion. I liked what he was doing with the character, I liked it far more than the ditz that she was at times during the last run and the victim she became when Tony blindsided her. What did you expect after the dumbness in cw and then the sex/depowerment story; that she'd go right back to being a superhero?

Mark_S

Gee just hearing you mention it, and them me comparing it to the other bigger problems other heroes have faced in their moments of reflection on what needs to be done kind of makes me think that well... I'll leave it alone.

[Michael P]

The same reason Chris Claremont keeps getting books.

Nonsense. They can't both own Quesada's balls.

Maybe one each, though...

[Doc Goblin]

The same reason Chris Claremont keeps getting books.

Hey I'm not fan of Claremont's work at all. But the guy really does sell his books. New Exiles' sales may be dropping at the moment, but he usually has enough of a fanbase to keep whatever he's writing in a healthy position on the charts.

[steveg887]

Hey I'm not fan of Claremont's work at all. But the guy really does sell his books. New Exiles' sales may be dropping at the moment, but he usually has enough of a fanbase to keep whatever he's writing in a healthy position on the charts.

Didn't Marvel announce New Exiles' cancellation today?

[Ex_]

Didn't Marvel announce New Exiles' cancellation today?

ZING! And true.

[Doc Goblin]

Didn't Marvel announce New Exiles' cancellation today?

Yeah. Or something like that. I've heard people talking about a relaunch or something too. I don't know. Exiles hasn't been worth my attention since Winick left.

[CMBMOOL]

That's a matter of opinion. I liked what he was doing with the character, I liked it far more than the ditz that she was at times during the last run and the victim she became when Tony blindsided her. What did you expect after the dumbness in cw and then the sex/depowerment story; that she'd go right back to being a superhero?

Mark_S
I have to agree you brought up a good point Mark... I mean we still don't know why she originally appeared in the new Hulk series and if Slott does place her in the Mighty Avengers, then he needs to give her a GOOD REASON to be place on the team after all she been through. :frown:

[steveg887]

Yeah. Or something like that. I've heard people talking about a relaunch or something too. I don't know. Exiles hasn't been worth my attention since Winick left.

I kinda feel bad for Claremont. He tries so hard, but just can't quite seem to get it right anymore.

[pariah-1972]

[QUOTE=Eye in the Sky;7920591]The same reason Chris Claremont keeps getting books.[/QUOTEMisplaced loyalty? Claremont still has his hardcore fans tho i don't know if there is enough to hold a book anymore.

[Flâneur]

Hudlin keeps the reins of the Black Panther title and it avoids cancellation because of the BP cartoon. That's it. The title doesn't sell well and receives zero critical acclaim and Marvel probably knows this but ensuring he'll do the cartoon for them is more important.

As for the She-Hulk title, I'm massively disappointed because immediately following Slott's run, PAD's writing on the title was very uninspiring but it became so much better as it got into the Lady Liberators. Now that the title is -good- it's getting canceled. Ugh.

And CC is getting another project [he always does] but it's not going to be New Exiles. He was given two chances with that, including a #100 issue and a #1 issue and he wasn't able to hit any home runs critically or financially.

[pariah-1972]

Exactly how dumbass is it to say that Marvel might consider it a PR mess if someone notices that they have a single African American writer on their whole staff? And that consideration may influence their choice to keep a title that is borderline in circulation and keep that particular writing it?

Books have been kept going and books have been canceled over the years for a whole variety of reasons in the past that are not directly related to the circulation.

Marvel is a big company in the public eye, and they do have to keep things like this in mind. Even the NFL as completely assinine rules regarding race in hiring a head coach.
In the NFL, an owner can decide "hey! I just fired my coach. I know just the guy that I want to hire, and he would love to come work for me."
But he can't just hire him if he's white. Nope. He is MANDATED by the NFL to interview a minority coach for the position, even if he has ZERO chance of getting the job.

So suggesting that the fact that the charachter and the writer are black might have been at least considered in deciding not to kill the book actually is in no way assinine.

Personally, I love the Panther, and I don't care why he is getting another shot, as long as he is.Actually theres two Kevin Grevioux is african american unless the picture they had of him was completely different and he was writing new warriors and is writing blue marvel.

[LungerTony]

Exactly how dumbass is it to say that Marvel might consider it a PR mess if someone notices that they have a single African American writer on their whole staff? And that consideration may influence their choice to keep a title that is borderline in circulation and keep that particular writing it?

Books have been kept going and books have been canceled over the years for a whole variety of reasons in the past that are not directly related to the circulation.

Marvel is a big company in the public eye, and they do have to keep things like this in mind. Even the NFL as completely assinine rules regarding race in hiring a head coach.
In the NFL, an owner can decide "hey! I just fired my coach. I know just the guy that I want to hire, and he would love to come work for me."
But he can't just hire him if he's white. Nope. He is MANDATED by the NFL to interview a minority coach for the position, even if he has ZERO chance of getting the job.

So suggesting that the fact that the charachter and the writer are black might have been at least considered in deciding not to kill the book actually is in no way assinine.

Personally, I love the Panther, and I don't care why he is getting another shot, as long as he is.

Not that I agree 100%, or that its totally true, I don't think this is a dumbass statement. It's something to consider. I hear only terrible things about Hudlin's writing, and he has no previous history such as Claremont.
Every other book I can think of the writer or the book itself would be gone by now.

[Merrik]

Anyone know the specific email address where I can send a letter? I'm probably just really missing the obvious somewhere, but I can't seem to locate a specific email address for the situation.

Thanks!

[Spiffy]

Anyone know the specific email address where I can send a letter? I'm probably just really missing the obvious somewhere, but I can't seem to locate a specific email address for the situation.

Thanks!
Paper is probably a better idea, even still, for "being taken seriously". You could just send a letter to Joe Quesada, Marvel Entertainment Inc.,
417 5th Avenue, New York, NY 10016

Or make a phone call to 212-576-4000.

I suppose you could be sneaky (and probably over-optimistic) and try the "contact" email on his personal website: joe@joequesada.com . Which probably goes straight to his webmaster and is never seen by him, but hey, you can hope.

You could theoretically use the "Send A Message" feature on his Myspace page: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=352724669 Note, however, his last login date. It says: Last Login: 8/13/2008 , assuming it was even him and not some lackey who logged in.

You can use the "Discuss" link at the bottom of his various "Cup O Joe (http://www.marvel.com/comics/Cup_O_Joe)" columns. He might actually see some of those. On the other hand, I bet the webmaster also erases a lot of them.

[Froggy]

Really why would you say that for? Bp has been very low selling to the point on cancellation for a long time but the book hasn't been cancelled and Hudlin hasn't been replaced.


Can you think of any other reasons besides political correctness for them to keep him on the book?

the fact that the man has stupid amounts of cash?

i mean it's not like he's the average brother off the indy comic rag


the guy is the head of BET entertainment

head of large tv networks=$$$$$$$

so obviously, he, like other stars, can pay their way

if you get what i'm saying

Kevin Grievoux on the other hand manages his own comic site (Vindicators still come out or w/e) and i'm sure isn't as established as Mcduffie is as a writer


lol@ no one getting what i'm saying

[Froggy]

that explanation was for Ghalecki as well

cause really affirmative action in comic books? LOL


like seriously, thats a Laugh Out Loud thing for me to hear

if that was true wouldnt marvel jump at the chance to hire the two dudes who did blokhedz? the song of songs guy?

the people who worked at ANIA?

[steve2275]

makes room for lady liberators :biggrin: :cool: :wink:
wishful thinking

[Robo Ape]

Double post.

[steve2275]

makes room for lady liberators :biggrin: :cool: :wink:
wishful thinking

[Robo Ape]

Just noticed this, that means in February I lose three of my main titles BoP, 100 Bullets & She Hulk, the rate this is going I will hardly be reading any main DC & Marvel titles soon.

Anyone else find themselves reading very few mainstream DC & Marvel titles these days?

I mean what the heck titles are selling these days if they can cancel good stuff like She Hulk?

If & when they launch it again maybe they should put it out as a MAX title, maybe it would sell better then?

[LungerTony]

the fact that the man has stupid amounts of cash?

i mean it's not like he's the average brother off the indy comic rag


the guy is the head of BET entertainment



Oh, I never knew that. Ok, yeah, that's the reason why Hudlin hasn't been replaced...he is the damn head of BET.

[LungerTony]

Double post.

[Robo Ape]

I wonder what the chance of it getting another reboot is?

[ZT4]

I dropped this when Slott left. I've heard good things about the Lady Liberators, so I'll dip back in and support some ligering back issues, but this title is better with fresh minds, not veterans who coast on their laurels until there in a good enough mood to care

[mikekerr3]

did someone on here just, in all seirousness say a writer at marvel is still writing cause of affirmative action?:rolleyes:

please tell me you're joking

Not affirmative action for the Writer, affirmative action for a not very successful character and book that seeming is immune from cancellation when better selling books die.

[Peter David]

I kinda feel bad for Claremont. He tries so hard, but just can't quite seem to get it right anymore.

Considering the staggering number of quality series that have sales you could measure with a teacup--series both ongoing and canceled--while series which fans bitch about endlessly rack in gargantuan numbers, I'm moved to wonder if the readers seem to get it right anymore.

PAD

[Peter David]

I dropped this when Slott left. I've heard good things about the Lady Liberators, so I'll dip back in and support some ligering back issues, but this title is better with fresh minds, not veterans who coast on their laurels until there (sic) in a good enough mood to care

You know what? Say what you want about the book. But don't you attempt to set up shop in my head and claim that I don't care about what I write. I put 110% into everything.

Hey, here's a thought. How about you blame me for the previous three times She-Hulk's been canceled? Why not hang me out to dry for the multiple times that Spider-Girl has bit the dust? While you're at it, how about you float the notion that my lack of caring was responsible for Manhunter being canceled? All, of course, from your carefully embraced anonymity, Mr. "senior member." Or perhaps you just care so little about your opinion that you don't feel it's worth putting your name to. See how fun it is to declare what's going through other people's minds?

As if people didn't bitch non-stop about Dan's work on the book while he was doing it. "He's not taking She-Hulk seriously enough!" "He's making a joke of her!" "There's not enough action!" So I write She-Hulk more seriously, put in more action, cut way back on the jokes. "Peter David is being too serious! Why can't he be fun like Dan Slott? Obviously he doesn't care."

I care, Mr. Anonymous. Anyone who knows me, knows that. You don't know me. So don't you dare pretend that you do. Nor do I know you. Then again, hiding behind fake names assures that, doesn't it.


PAD

[Robo Ape]

Oh well will just hope she appears elsewhere even if it's in the less than great Red Hulk.

[MythicBrawn]

Just noticed this, that means in February I lose three of my main titles BoP, 100 Bullets & She Hulk, the rate this is going I will hardly be reading any main DC & Marvel titles soon.

Anyone else find themselves reading very few mainstream DC & Marvel titles these days?

I mean what the heck titles are selling these days if they can cancel good stuff like She Hulk?

If & when they launch it again maybe they should put it out as a MAX title, maybe it would sell better then?

Image comics are pretty good. Invincible, Astounding Wolf-Man, Walking Dead are all good books. Their books seem more innovative without the baggage. And, they aren't looking do a crisis every few years to garner interest.

[passer-by]

Their books seem more innovative without the baggage. And, they aren't looking do a crisis every few years to garner interest.That sums up why I read less and less Marvel and more and more Vertigo/Wildstorm/Image/Dynamite/you-name-it.

House of M, Civil War, World War Hulk, now Secret Invasion hardly over and already Dark Reign is being discussed... I understand why more and more people stick to more stand-alone Marvel titles.

I took a look at February solicits for Marvel and was put off by the huge amount of event-related titles.

I used to read most of the main Marvel series and I enjoyed them because they were much more self-contained. OK, a cameo appearance here and there, some team-ups, the odd Contest of Champions or Infinity Gauntlet and suchlike (but only within mini-series without 178 tie-ins). Sometimes I miss these days.

[pariah-1972]

I really don't think this book was promoted all that well considering i didn't even know Peter had taken over from Slott until the X-factor cross-over.

[passer-by]

I really don't think this book was promoted all that well considering i didn't even know Peter had taken over from Slott until the X-factor cross-over.Yeah, just like Slott's The Thing: Idol of Millions which is one of the best things I've read from Marvel lately. Luckily I heard about it from a fan forum, otherwise I would have missed it. At least they collected the 8 episodes in a TPB, but it's a shame the series was cancelled.

But that was to be expected, I guess. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Marvel are promoting mainly their big events and their big series like Spider-Man, the X-Men, Hulk and lately the Avengers. Which is almost redundant since these series have films and/or animated series and are already better known than, say, X-Factor, She-Hulk, The Thing, Runaways, Daredevil, Iron Fist and so on, which could use (for some it is now could have used :frown: :mad: ) some better advertising. And I daresay they more than deserve it.

[SalazarSleaze2]

As if people didn't bitch non-stop about Dan's work on the book while he was doing it. "He's not taking She-Hulk seriously enough!" "He's making a joke of her!" "There's not enough action!" So I write She-Hulk more seriously, put in more action, cut way back on the jokes. "Peter David is being too serious! Why can't he be fun like Dan Slott? Obviously he doesn't care."



Not to nitpick here, but I am sure that the people who complained about Slott's alleged lack of action/too many jokes aren't the same who complained about David's alleged too much action/too little fun approach...just saying.

[Peter David]

Not to nitpick here, but I am sure that the people who complained about Slott's alleged lack of action/too many jokes aren't the same who complained about David's alleged too much action/too little fun approach...just saying.

Kind of the point. Remember that the next time fans declare that writers never listen to them. Trying to satisfy fans is like trying to gather liquid mercury with a butterfly net.


PAD

[Peter David]

I really don't think this book was promoted all that well considering i didn't even know Peter had taken over from Slott until the X-factor cross-over.

That's one of several reasons that I did it. And people bought lots of that issue. And they bought the "Secret Invasion" issues after that. And they might well have bought the subsequent issues, but the retailers promptly cut their orders, thus never giving them the opportunity. If every fan who bought those issues, liked them, and wanted to continue with them had told their retailer to start putting the book aside for them, it might well have turned out differently. But they didn't. They just assumed the book would be there the following month. And they were wrong in every possible way.

PAD

[Flâneur]

Kind of the point. Remember that the next time fans declare that writers never listen to them. Trying to satisfy fans is like trying to gather liquid mercury with a butterfly net.


PAD

I don't understand what you're getting at, PAD. The fans weren't being inconsistent in their demands, it was the fact that there were inconsistencies in who was part of the fan base. I know people who jumped on just for you and people who left along with Slott. So how is it apt to blame fans in some blanket sense for not being satisfied/for protesting on a web forum? Not including dr who of course, who hates everything yet buys it anyway, feel free to blame him.

[grphxkindaguy]

I take it you're not a blind follower of PAD's?

Far from it.

I loved his Hulk/Pantheon work "back in the day", his Trek novels and his first year & a half on the current X-Factor, but his style just wore thin to me after awhile...

[Peter David]

I don't understand what you're getting at, PAD.

I'm not sure why you don't. I really can't put it in any more of a straightforward manner. I often read that writers "don't care what the fans want." And I'm pointing out that it's a practical impossibility to write according to fan desires because, no matter what writers do, there are going to be fans who bitch about it. What more beyond that needs clarification?

PAD

[Flâneur]

I'm not sure why you don't. I really can't put it in any more of a straightforward manner. I often read that writers "don't care what the fans want." And I'm pointing out that it's a practical impossibility to write according to fan desires because, no matter what writers do, there are going to be fans who bitch about it. What more beyond that needs clarification?

PAD

It just seems your shifting the burden onto a fan's tendency to bitch about everything you do (which is an illusion, each person doesn't bitch about everything) rather than the fact that your product and Dan's product happen to have entirely separate fans who bitched about different things. If you're not doing so, then I apologise for the confusion, but that's how it reads.

[steveg887]

Considering the staggering number of quality series that have sales you could measure with a teacup--series both ongoing and canceled--while series which fans bitch about endlessly rack in gargantuan numbers, I'm moved to wonder if the readers seem to get it right anymore.

PAD

I think the problem is most readers are male, and a lot of male readers don't want to read a book starring a woman. If you had the same stories in She-Hulk but transferred them so it was starring Bruce Banner, this probably wouldn't have happened.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I´m really, sorry to hear about this, female-lead titles just can´t seem to catch a break.

We´re down to how many now?

Ms Marvel
Wonder Woman
<<
>>
.
.
.
Bueller?

[Elegance Liberty]

Kind of the point. Remember that the next time fans declare that writers never listen to them. Trying to satisfy fans is like trying to gather liquid mercury with a butterfly net.


PAD

Truer words have never been spoken.

[darknessatnoon]

Oh well,

I wish the Pantheon had reared their heads in the book before it got nixed [bitching]. But life goes on.

[Mr. Cakes]

Not to nitpick here, but I am sure that the people who complained about Slott's alleged lack of action/too many jokes aren't the same who complained about David's alleged too much action/too little fun approach...just saying.

Where is that coming from?

I found PAD's She-Hulk to be a great mixture of action and fun. It wasn't the whacky, zany fun that Slott had, but fun was there. The banter between Jennifer and Jazinda, She-Hulk's various one-liners (on par with any other "funny" super hero), etc.

I think it all boils down to the character of She-Hulk and fans of comics not really caring about her enough to buy her monthly book or even giving the book a chance. I convinced a lot of my friends to start reading She-Hulk and they loved it. Then again, as PAD said, retailers just didn't stock up on She-Hulk as heavily as they did other comics, so the fans who got pulled in during Secret Invasion were quickly cast aside.

I´m really, sorry to hear about this, female-lead titles just can´t seem to catch a break.

We´re down to how many now?

Ms Marvel
Wonder Woman
<<
>>
.
.
.
Bueller?

Apparently, there's a Spider-Woman series coming up soon, which I fully support. But really... if they had three female Marvel books, that's still a really small amount compared to the 10-something male solo books. But now there's only two.

The worst part of it all was that last month, it got me all psyched because She-Hulk has a one-shot and her series in the same month, so I thought She-Hulk was doing extremely well. So this definitely blindsided me.

[grphxkindaguy]

I´m really, sorry to hear about this, female-lead titles just can´t seem to catch a break.

We´re down to how many now?

Ms Marvel
Wonder Woman
<<
>>
.
.
.
Bueller?

Supergirl, forgot that one!

[Enyo]

You know what? Say what you want about the book. But don't you attempt to set up shop in my head and claim that I don't care about what I write. I put 110% into everything.

Hey, here's a thought. How about you blame me for the previous three times She-Hulk's been canceled? Why not hang me out to dry for the multiple times that Spider-Girl has bit the dust? While you're at it, how about you float the notion that my lack of caring was responsible for Manhunter being canceled? All, of course, from your carefully embraced anonymity, Mr. "senior member." Or perhaps you just care so little about your opinion that you don't feel it's worth putting your name to. See how fun it is to declare what's going through other people's minds?

As if people didn't bitch non-stop about Dan's work on the book while he was doing it. "He's not taking She-Hulk seriously enough!" "He's making a joke of her!" "There's not enough action!" So I write She-Hulk more seriously, put in more action, cut way back on the jokes. "Peter David is being too serious! Why can't he be fun like Dan Slott? Obviously he doesn't care."

I care, Mr. Anonymous. Anyone who knows me, knows that. You don't know me. So don't you dare pretend that you do. Nor do I know you. Then again, hiding behind fake names assures that, doesn't it.


PAD

She-Hulk has been that rare book female comic fans can really cheer for. I appreciate all your efforts to make this book so enjoyable. Jen will be missed.:frown:

[Enyo]

Supergirl, forgot that one!

Honestly I've enjoyed She-Hulk much more than Wonder Woman. I hold out hope that the upcoming Spiderwoman and Power Girl comics will do well.

[Mark_S]

I think what PAD is saying is that the fans who compain are the loudest fans. And they are seldom satisfied no matter what the writer does. I'm as guilty of this as anyone. In the case of Iron Man and Spiderman the characters have been so mangled by previous writers that I am really not going to give a new writer a chance. And in Tony's case I often look for bad stuff.
I've questioned PAD's premise when it took Jen away from her battle with Tony, but it turned out that I liked it. For a few issues though I was angry that Tony got away again and I might have skipped those issues.

There is often no logic too what a fan wants, no consistency to what a fan wants and even the fan often does not know what he wants. The writers are shoooting at targets with a blindfold on and the target is most likely to yell when the writer misses, not when he hits.

Mark_S

[Mark_S]

I´m really, sorry to hear about this, female-lead titles just can´t seem to catch a break.

We´re down to how many now?

Ms Marvel
Wonder Woman
<<
>>
.
.
.
Bueller?


I hate Gallant Girl has a good start to it, Manhunter is good, Bomb Queen is a guilty pleasure... but in the mu women are behind the eight ball and have been for a while. Tigra, Ms. Marvel... even Sue are not being writtten well in my opinion.

Mark_S

[I am MODOK]

I just keep thinking how much I enjoyed the Lady Liberators bit. Too bad the book was cancelled now. That story could have led to some great guest stars and some neat supervillains showing up. Oh well.

I did my part, I bought every issue!

[pariah-1972]

Mr David i am glad to see you are so passionate about this book.
do you know when the trade is gonna come out?
Or is there already one ?

[Robo Ape]

That sums up why I read less and less Marvel and more and more Vertigo/Wildstorm/Image/Dynamite/you-name-it.

House of M, Civil War, World War Hulk, now Secret Invasion hardly over and already Dark Reign is being discussed... I understand why more and more people stick to more stand-alone Marvel titles.

I took a look at February solicits for Marvel and was put off by the huge amount of event-related titles.

I used to read most of the main Marvel series and I enjoyed them because they were much more self-contained. OK, a cameo appearance here and there, some team-ups, the odd Contest of Champions or Infinity Gauntlet and suchlike (but only within mini-series without 178 tie-ins). Sometimes I miss these days.

90% of my comic titles now are either independent titles or non mainstream titles from Wildstorm & Vertigo etc. Female led titles seems to have some greater success in the independent sector, be it Witchblade, Hack Slash, Red Sonja, Bomb Queen, Sheena, Jungle Girl, Buffy & even Tarot.

[pariah-1972]

90% of my comic titles now are either independent titles or non mainstream titles from Wildstorm & Vertigo etc. Female led titles seems to have some greater success in the independent sector, be it Witchblade, Hack Slash, Red Sonja, Bomb Queen, Sheena, Jungle Girl, Buffy & even Tarot.Theres reasons for that 1. they are not beholden to the stock market and corperate america like the big two 2. they can explore racier themes and artwork.

[CMBMOOL]

I think what PAD is saying is that the fans who compain are the loudest fans. And they are seldom satisfied no matter what the writer does. I'm as guilty of this as anyone. In the case of Iron Man and Spiderman the characters have been so mangled by previous writers that I am really not going to give a new writer a chance. And in Tony's case I often look for bad stuff.
I've questioned PAD's premise when it took Jen away from her battle with Tony, but it turned out that I liked it. For a few issues though I was angry that Tony got away again and I might have skipped those issues.

There is often no logic too what a fan wants, no consistency to what a fan wants and even the fan often does not know what he wants. The writers are shoooting at targets with a blindfold on and the target is most likely to yell when the writer misses, not when he hits.

Mark_S
Yeah, but then again Mark S, Joe Casey brought back the Tony and Jen fight in the Last Defenders Mini-series.

How did you feel about that development ?

[Deathstroke]

Can I just say that I have thoroughly enjoyed PAD's run and that I'm damn sad that it is going to be over soon.

That's all that really matters.

[CMBMOOL]

Can I just say that I have thoroughly enjoyed PAD's run and that I'm damn sad that it is going to be over soon.

That's all that really matters.
Amen to that fact.


I have respect PAD and his work and I have enjoyed some of his issues, I'm just as sad to see him go as most fans of his work are. :frown:

[akumasan]

Hudlin keeps the reins of the Black Panther title and it avoids cancellation because of the BP cartoon. That's it. The title doesn't sell well and receives zero critical acclaim and Marvel probably knows this but ensuring he'll do the cartoon for them is more important.

As for the She-Hulk title, I'm massively disappointed because immediately following Slott's run, PAD's writing on the title was very uninspiring but it became so much better as it got into the Lady Liberators. Now that the title is -good- it's getting canceled. Ugh.

And CC is getting another project [he always does] but it's not going to be New Exiles. He was given two chances with that, including a #100 issue and a #1 issue and he wasn't able to hit any home runs critically or financially.
And that is a problem because?????? Didnt the same thing happen to just about the rest of the heroes as well "focusing on the cartoons" around the 60s to get them out there to a wider audience? Spidey, Iron-man, Fantastic Four, Hulk, Thor and even Spiderwoman. Paper is probably a better idea, even still, for "being taken seriously". You could just send a letter to Joe Quesada, Marvel Entertainment Inc.,
417 5th Avenue, New York, NY 10016

Or make a phone call to 212-576-4000.

I suppose you could be sneaky (and probably over-optimistic) and try the "contact" email on his personal website: joe@joequesada.com . Which probably goes straight to his webmaster and is never seen by him, but hey, you can hope.

You could theoretically use the "Send A Message" feature on his Myspace page: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=352724669 Note, however, his last login date. It says: Last Login: 8/13/2008 , assuming it was even him and not some lackey who logged in.

You can use the "Discuss" link at the bottom of his various "Cup O Joe (http://www.marvel.com/comics/Cup_O_Joe)" columns. He might actually see some of those. On the other hand, I bet the webmaster also erases a lot of them.
in sum the poster is wasting his time.
the fact that the man has stupid amounts of cash?

i mean it's not like he's the average brother off the indy comic rag


the guy is the head of BET entertainment

head of large tv networks=$$$$$$$

so obviously, he, like other stars, can pay their way

if you get what i'm saying

Kevin Grievoux on the other hand manages his own comic site (Vindicators still come out or w/e) and i'm sure isn't as established as Mcduffie is as a writer


lol@ no one getting what i'm saying
he is no longer president
http://www.vibe.com/news/news_headlines/2008/09/reginald_hudlin_leaves_bet_networks/
Considering the staggering number of quality series that have sales you could measure with a teacup--series both ongoing and canceled--while series which fans bitch about endlessly rack in gargantuan numbers, I'm moved to wonder if the readers seem to get it right anymore.
PADGreat point and it couldnt be any simplier and it is greatly appreciated.

[ZT4]

WOW. I'm being interviewed by Diane Simmons:rolleyes:

Here's a tip Peter(oh, sorry, for the sake of putting us on "equal territory", I designate you "PD InternetTougGuy16706"), I've been around some writers who've practically admited there's a certain complaicency to familiarity. Comfort-Zone writing may be fun to them, but is it any real change, no, it's just playing a familiar record?

I'm not saying your run was mediocre, I'm just saying it wasnt anything I've seen before from "Mr. Hulk". I loved your writing on Spider-Man and wish you'd been invited to the Brain-Trust and stayed on longer. I'm not going to lose respect for you simply because you have developed a tendency to play "Internet Tough Guy" with anyone who questions how much heart is in the pages they read, if I don't see heart, I'm got going to pucker up and kiss ass, I'm going to kick it and light a fire there to make sure I get the best of someone I consider on his "game on" days a great writer.

Did I mean to intrude? No. I intrude with experiance, two cents, and as for hiding under a "fake name"...live with it, most of our more astute posters speaking up for you are boxed in to think there cowards too. Watch who you catergorize.

Dan Slott and I have had "stand-up rows" on CBR before about his work on ASM lately (though he was MUCH nicer about it), but that's just due to what I READ, not because I follow the cliche of "Internet Whiner 101". I get what I want from great writers, and I don't get what I want from great writers in abudence. Loeb can draw me in with some D.C work and crush me with his Marvel work. Bendis can bore me to death with his Avengers work, and enthrall me with his Ultimate and Daredevil work.

I hope I've lit a fire up your ass so you can work it off. I think you've had "off" days prior to She-Hulk too, but you have put those days behind before. As has everyone.

That's life.

I'll apologise for wording my post the way it was worded, but that's how I viewed the title up until I dropped it. I've heard good things about the current arc, so I'll be reading to judge for myself. If I don't like it, I won't hesitate to "dip into your head" again because I assure you, what's in your head is what you put on paper.

[Sam T.]

Wow! I am really sorry to see this series cancelled. I've been with it since the beginning and it will be missed. Hopefully She-Hulk will get another series someday!

[pariah-1972]

WOW. I'm being interviewed by Diane Simmons:rolleyes:

Here's a tip Peter(oh, sorry, for the sake of putting us on "equal territory", I designate you "PD InternetTougGuy16706"), I've been around some writers who've practically admited there's a certain complaicency to familiarity. Comfort-Zone writing may be fun to them, but is it any real change, no, it's just playing a familiar record?

I'm not saying your run was mediocre, I'm just saying it wasnt anything I've seen before from "Mr. Hulk". I loved your writing on Spider-Man and wish you'd been invited to the Brain-Trust and stayed on longer. I'm not going to lose respect for you simply because you have developed a tendency to play "Internet Tough Guy" with anyone who questions how much heart is in the pages they read, if I don't see heart, I'm got going to pucker up and kiss ass, I'm going to kick it and light a fire there to make sure I get the best of someone I consider on his "game on" days a great writer.

Did I mean to intrude? No. I intrude with experiance, two cents, and as for hiding under a "fake name"...live with it, most of our more astute posters speaking up for you are boxed in to think there cowards too. Watch who you catergorize.

Dan Slott and I have had "stand-up rows" on CBR before about his work on ASM lately (though he was MUCH nicer about it), but that's just due to what I READ, not because I follow the cliche of "Internet Whiner 101". I get what I want from great writers, and I don't get what I want from great writers in abudence. Loeb can draw me in with some D.C work and crush me with his Marvel work. Bendis can bore me to death with his Avengers work, and enthrall me with his Ultimate and Daredevil work.

I hope I've lit a fire up your ass so you can work it off. I think you've had "off" days prior to She-Hulk too, but you have put those days behind before. As has everyone.

That's life.

I'll apologise for wording my post the way it was worded, but that's how I viewed the title up until I dropped it. I've heard good things about the current arc, so I'll be reading to judge for myself. If I don't like it, I won't hesitate to "dip into your head" again because I assure you, what's in your head is what you put on paper.
Is youre name Jim Shooter? cause if not you would make a wonderful editor.

[Powerboy]

That royally sucks. Its one of the few titles I follow and a character I really like. Its just too bad the comic book readership in general doesn't feel that way.

[ZT4]

At this stage, with She-Hulk being one of the more famous short-stint titles, it's never going to be a subject of consistency nor cancelation for long. A rest always helps these lesser-appreciated heroes and allows them to live "life" since there not always caught in the same traffic as the big guns (and sometimes that's more unreallistic)

She-Hulk can reemerge on Marvel's impending digital content if they so choose, so request that.

[sHayden]

If & when they launch it again maybe they should put it out as a MAX title, maybe it would sell better then?

All that MAX adds is the possibility of seeing some big green titties.
I am all for a She-Hulk book either way, but I am just not sure what can be done to have this book come out on the shelves monthly and stay there.
While this thread has plenty of steam behind it, it does not represent comicdom as a whole.
Books are going to come and go all the time, without any of us really ever knowing why a cancellation was made to one title and not to another. All we can hope for, is that the character will come back in a way we can all appreciate.

[Mark_S]

Yeah, but then again Mark S, Joe Casey brought back the Tony and Jen fight in the Last Defenders Mini-series.

How did you feel about that development ?

I missed it and I'm still looking for back issues.

Mark_S

[midnightman2001]

Need I point out that this is YET ANOTHER PETER DAVID BOOK THAT GETS CANCELLED!!!!! LMFAO:biggrin:

I THINK HE IS VERY MUCH OVERRATED! PROOF IS HIS BOOKS, WHicH ALWAYS SEEM TO BITE THE DUST!

[Umbra]

You know what? Say what you want about the book. But don't you attempt to set up shop in my head and claim that I don't care about what I write. I put 110% into everything.

Hey, here's a thought. How about you blame me for the previous three times She-Hulk's been canceled? Why not hang me out to dry for the multiple times that Spider-Girl has bit the dust? While you're at it, how about you float the notion that my lack of caring was responsible for Manhunter being canceled? All, of course, from your carefully embraced anonymity, Mr. "senior member." Or perhaps you just care so little about your opinion that you don't feel it's worth putting your name to. See how fun it is to declare what's going through other people's minds?

As if people didn't bitch non-stop about Dan's work on the book while he was doing it. "He's not taking She-Hulk seriously enough!" "He's making a joke of her!" "There's not enough action!" So I write She-Hulk more seriously, put in more action, cut way back on the jokes. "Peter David is being too serious! Why can't he be fun like Dan Slott? Obviously he doesn't care."

I care, Mr. Anonymous. Anyone who knows me, knows that. You don't know me. So don't you dare pretend that you do. Nor do I know you. Then again, hiding behind fake names assures that, doesn't it.


PAD

You are a awesome writer, screw the haters. I agree totally.

[ZT4]

I love how people who have actually admited to liking a writer's other work are boxed in with "haters" just because they think a few off-days from a writer they like aint up to scratch. I also love when nobody reads the post I made afterwards which expresses this

Typical unthinking Marvel Zombies:rolleyes:

[Umbra]

I´m really, sorry to hear about this, female-lead titles just can´t seem to catch a break.

We´re down to how many now?

Ms Marvel
Wonder Woman
<<
>>
.
.
.
Bueller?

and Black Panther, who is now a female.

[Ghost Shark]

Well this sucks. I was a fan of Dan Slott's work on the series, and a fan of PAD's. I'll miss Shulkie's monthly adventures. :frown:

I will, however, follow PAD to whatever he writes next. X-Factor is the only mutant title I read anymore, and only because he is writing it.

[XPac]

It certainly sucks that She-Hulk is being cancelled.

That said, I'm sure none of us are too suprised. I'm frankly amazed it lasted as long as it did under Slott's run (though happily amazed, since I loved how fun that book was).

Slott's run at least developed a bit of a cult following, even though it wasn't a huge sales hit. But I sort of assumed that She-Hulk would be cancelled soon after Slott left.

I'll admit that I wasn't a huge fan of the current run at the start... the bounty hunter thing never really hooked me. And I missed the humor. But the lady liberators do seem dam cool.

Ah well... if we're lucky maybe she'll pop up in another on going. Like Mighty Avengers, or maybe even something with the Last Defenders.

[GHalecki]

the fact that the man has stupid amounts of cash?

i mean it's not like he's the average brother off the indy comic rag


the guy is the head of BET entertainment

head of large tv networks=$$$$$$$

so obviously, he, like other stars, can pay their way

if you get what i'm saying

Kevin Grievoux on the other hand manages his own comic site (Vindicators still come out or w/e) and i'm sure isn't as established as Mcduffie is as a writer


lol@ no one getting what i'm saying

So what does the fact that the writer happens to be very wealthy and influential have to do with the fact that if they got rid of him (and his book) they would be reducing their total number of Black writers to one, and could be potentially damaging to the company's image?
In fact, it strengthen's the possibility that it was a factor.

The Mets fired Willie Randolph, their first Black Manager, and immediately there were people saying that it was racist. I a black person of note in any field gets fired or in any kind of trouble, you can count on there being at least SOMEBODY out there crying racism, no matter how rediculous the charge may be in any given case. Look the OJ case (the first one). It is just a fact of life in business, that you may have to consider that potential hassle when you have a very limited roster of minorities working for you.

[Mark_S]

I'd still like to see a romance between her and Ben Grim

Mark_S

[Froggy]

Not affirmative action for the Writer, affirmative action for a not very successful character and book that seeming is immune from cancellation when better selling books die.
oh

that's evenw eirder
Oh, I never knew that. Ok, yeah, that's the reason why Hudlin hasn't been replaced...he is the damn head of BET.

I mean it's not like he's random schlub off the street wanting to write comics for marvel......dude has like a lot of cash

all i'm saying Ghalecki sit he money and status hudlin has is probably the main reason he got to write the title. He's a fan with a lot of cash and connections..........shit I bet if John SIngleton wanted to write a Luke Cage ongoing they'd throw it to him in a heartbeat I bet you.

Shti even Rosario Dawson has wrtitten comics

thing is, rich ppl who like comics can usually get the job quicker than average indie-man

point

blank

no one cares about Willie Randolph in this discussion

nor the mets

Angels FTW

[pariah-1972]

oh

that's evenw eirder


I mean it's not like he's random schlub off the street wanting to write comics for marvel......dude has like a lot of cash

all i'm saying Ghalecki sit he money and status hudlin has is probably the main reason he got to write the title. He's a fan with a lot of cash and connections..........shit I bet if John SIngleton wanted to write a Luke Cage ongoing they'd throw it to him in a heartbeat I bet you.

Shti even Rosario Dawson has wrtitten comics

thing is, rich ppl who like comics can usually get the job quicker than average indie-man

point

blank

no one cares about Willie Randolph in this discussion

nor the mets

Angels FTWOk lets make this clear if Marvel fired a Black Writer from a black character oriented comic book it could look bad and lots of people would cry racism.
It's stupid but thats life.

We can debate wither the book is good or not but it's not selling anymore than any other cancelled book and that is a fact.

[Merrik]

in sum the poster is wasting his time.

Maybe, probably, even, but I'll decide what's wasting my time or not, and this is something I feel passionately about (enough to actually write a letter which I've never done before). So to me, even though it's a 99.99% certainty that my single letter won't help, it's not wasting my time.

[midnightman2001]

Peter David is SSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great, YET EVERY BOOK HE WORKS ON GETS THE AX!:eek:

Can you say overrated? I can & so can Marvel apparently! :tongue:

[Umbra]

Why are you guys talking about Hudlin and Black Panther in FREAKING SHE-HULK THREAD?

Geez people

[paulski]

The only thing I'm surprised by here is that it was in February and not a couple more months down the track. In my opinion, the writing's been disappointing and the artwork downright garbage since Slott finished up a year ago.

I love the character but I'm glad to see this waste of $3 go. I know that'll confuse a lot of other diehard readers but that's how much I hated the direction this book was heading in. :(

[Flâneur]

Peter David is SSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great, YET EVERY BOOK HE WORKS ON GETS THE AX!:eek:

Can you say overrated? I can & so can Marvel apparently! :tongue:

Can you say troll?

[Dr. Chaos]

Bad news: The cancellation, I loved this character...well, before Peter David got ahold of her anyway and interjected annoying skrulls and pretentiousness and flat humor into the mix.

Good news: Hey, Dan! She's available again!

Mighty Avengers. She-Hulk. Now.

(put your hand down, Joe Casey, Marvel are already playing fast and loose with that mini by bringing in an alternate reality "New" Defenders and the classic formation in Fantastic Four and Hulk, it's only a matter of time before someone contradicts it or the team falls apart and changes again)

[Michael P]

Peter David is SSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great, YET EVERY BOOK HE WORKS ON GETS THE AX!:eek:

Except X-Factor. And Fallen Angel (okay, creator-owned, but still, IDW's been great at supporting it since the move). And Aquaman (only canceled after he left). And Incredible Hulk, of course.

Although, when you get down to it, you show me a writer for whom the majority of the books he's written are still being published, and I'll show you either Stan Lee or a guy who just started this year.

[Merrik]

Love it or hate it, everyone's entitled to their opinion on the current series. I had mixed feelings for the first few issues of PAD's run, but those feelings soon went away. I personally felt he hit an amazing stride around issue #28 or #29, and continued on an upward roll thereafter. I'm utterly disappointed in the cancellation news, and have already sent off two emails, and written a letter I plan to mail tomorrow. Like I said before, will it make a difference? Probably not, but I feel strongly about this, so I'm going to at least try and do something.

[gorthon616]

Peter David is SSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great, YET EVERY BOOK HE WORKS ON GETS THE AX!:eek:

Can you say overrated? I can & so can Marvel apparently! :tongue:

Wouldn't the fact that he is unappreciated go to the fact that he is fact underrated? :rolleyes:

[passer-by]

Except X-Factor. And Fallen Angel (okay, creator-owned, but still, IDW's been great at supporting it since the move). And Aquaman (only canceled after he left). And Incredible Hulk, of course.

Although, when you get down to it, you show me a writer for whom the majority of the books he's written are still being published, and I'll show you either Stan Lee or a guy who just started this year.Thank you for pointing that out!

And Mr. Troll, show me a writer who takes a bunch of third-rate characters and produces one of the best current Marvel series (I don't care if it is not in the Top 10 in sales - quality and quantity sadly don't always go together).

Is it possible to post a poll of appreciation of Peter David? The Hulk board would be the best place, I think, given the circumstances. I do mean a poll.

I'm still new here, so I ask a CBR forums old-timer :cool: to do that. Please?

If that has already been done, could you post the link here? Thanks.

[gorthon616]

Thank you for pointing that out!

And Mr. Troll, show me a writer who takes a bunch of third-rate characters and produces one of the best current Marvel series (I don't care if it is not in the Top 10 in sales - quality and quantity sadly don't always go together).

Is it possible to post a poll of appreciation of Peter David? The Hulk board would be the best place, I think, given the circumstances. I do mean a poll.

I'm still new here, so I ask a CBR forums old-timer :cool: to do that. Please?

If that has already been done, could you post the link here? Thanks.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=216880&highlight=Peter+David

Will give you the honor of the bump.

Not a poll, but if you don't like PAD then you have no soul. And being the good Christian that I am, I stab soulless ones through the heart with a stake, vampire scum.

But seriously. Someone as amazing as PAD has NEVER been given A-List treatment by a publisher. The closest would really be Incredible Hulk. But I mean like Millar/Bendis/Morrison-esque "Here is the universe... Make it awesome!"

[passer-by]

Well I'm a former Christian and presently an atheist, but I hope you'll still accept my great many thanks, gorthon616! :biggrin: :wink: :smile:

[gorthon616]

Well I'm a former Christian and presently an atheist, but I hope you'll still accept my great many thanks, gorthon616! :wink: :smile:

lol. no problem passer-by. PAD is the uniting force across all peoples and religions, after all.

[Froggy]

Ok lets make this clear if Marvel fired a Black Writer from a black character oriented comic book it could look bad and lots of people would cry racism.
It's stupid but thats life.

We can debate wither the book is good or not but it's not selling anymore than any other cancelled book and that is a fact.

well people cry racims, homophobia about a lot o shit

honestly why tell people shi liek that?

two plus two equals four but we dont need to hear it every damn day

and I dont thinka nyone cried racism when it got canceled last tiem to be hoenst


but what i'm saying is the onlyr easont he title is continuing is cause dude got cash

[pariah-1972]

well people cry racims, homophobia about a lot o shit

honestly why tell people shi liek that?

two plus two equals four but we dont need to hear it every damn day

and I dont thinka nyone cried racism when it got canceled last tiem to be hoenst


but what i'm saying is the onlyr easont he title is continuing is cause dude got cashOk i've tried to be nice to you but you are not making a bit of sense at all and your spelling is atrocious.

[DeadXMan]

I think the problem is most readers are male, and a lot of male readers don't want to read a book starring a woman. If you had the same stories in She-Hulk but transferred them so it was starring Bruce Banner, this probably wouldn't have happened.

..... what kind of males are you hanging out with?


:confused:

[pariah-1972]

..... what kind of males are you hanging out with?


:confused:He might have a point considering how most female centered books sell.

[LungerTony]

Anyone else get the impression that PAD must have had a pretty crappy day?

And I don't see X-Factor getting cancelled, so I don't know how you can call him a kiss of death.
And I think most can agree Shulk was always a book that was dancing on the plank.

Anyway, I loved Shulk, and I loved PAD's run on it too. It was a different pace than Slott's but it was still awesome.
I still thinkher opening fight with Absorbing Man was cool has hell.

[midnightman2001]

I liked She Hulk too. But its funny how peter david comes along & BOOM its gone.

I stand by what I said.

[Peter David]

And every show that Joss Whedon has ever written has been canceled.

And every show that Stephen Bocho created has been canceled.

And every show that Aaron Sorkin has ever created has been canceled. In fact, he's been fired off half the shows he created.

Shows get canceled. Comic books get canceled. If you look at the numbering of the current books on the market, it seems that pretty much ALL comic book series get canceled at some point or another. Frankly, in today's market, which tends to penalize books the higher the books go in the numbering, there's zero incentive to keep books going.

Frankly, at this point, I think publishers would be well advised to treat comic books like TV seasons. Twelve issues every year, numbered one through twelve, distinguished by volume. Just do away with ongoing numbering altogther.

As for staying on titles, it would probably serve my career better to just jump from one title to the next rather than stick around and give trolls fodder. Fortunately enough, I was never particularly bright about what served my career well. Even more fortunately, nothing that trolls say matters.

PAD

[LungerTony]

Hasn't PAD been on the book for almost a year or so?
Hardly a "boom," to me but I don't consider my life a rapid succession of a few dozen booms though.

Shulkie was always on the verge of cancellation after coming back from the dead. I don't really think PAD is at fault in any major capacity.

[gorthon616]

And every show that Joss Whedon has ever written has been canceled.

And every show that Stephen Bocho created has been canceled.

And every show that Aaron Sorkin has ever created has been canceled. In fact, he's been fired off half the shows he created.

Shows get canceled. Comic books get canceled. If you look at the numbering of the current books on the market, it seems that pretty much ALL comic book series get canceled at some point or another. Frankly, in today's market, which tends to penalize books the higher the books go in the numbering, there's zero incentive to keep books going.

Frankly, at this point, I think publishers would be well advised to treat comic books like TV seasons. Twelve issues every year, numbered one through twelve, distinguished by volume. Just do away with ongoing numbering altogther.

As for staying on titles, it would probably serve my career better to just jump from one title to the next rather than stick around and give trolls fodder. Fortunately enough, I was never particularly bright about what served my career well. Even more fortunately, nothing that trolls say matters.

PAD

Word to your mother.

[LungerTony]

Lol.
I think PAD is taking the cancellation a lot harder than the biggest no-life fanboy for sure.

[Peter David]

Lol.
I think PAD is taking the cancellation a lot harder than the biggest no-life fanboy for sure.

It's more a case of being perpetually amazed at the no-win scenario that many fans have created for what constitutes success. Follow:

TV shows end. Plays conclude their runs. Books go out of print. Newspapers and magazines fold. Virtually every form of entertainment has an end date. Only comic books have been arbitrarily designated by their fans as being successful only if they go on forever. If they end for any reason, they are deemed a failure. And of course whoever was writing it failed in their endeavor to keep it going ad infinitum and thus is himself a failure. Q.E.D.

Thus the no-win scenario. The smart writer therefore bails after a handful of issues before an extended stay prompts readers to wander off, as they invariably do. Fortunately for those readers who claim to like it when a creator makes an extended commitment to a series, and unfortunately for my career, I've never been smart in that regard.

PAD

[LungerTony]

Well, I just hope you don't wake up tomorrow and suddenly try to become "the smart writer" by abandoning X-Factor before its inevitable one day cancellation.

[Wind-Breaker]

Aw man, I started reading the series because PAD was writing it, and his stories really showed me the appealing aspects of the character. He's always been a master of bringing out the best in characters. Case and point: the man made Aquaman appealing....AQUAMAN! I'm so going to miss the She-Hulk series :frown: .

[gorthon616]

It's more a case of being perpetually amazed at the no-win scenario that many fans have created for what constitutes success. Follow:

TV shows end. Plays conclude their runs. Books go out of print. Newspapers and magazines fold. Virtually every form of entertainment has an end date. Only comic books have been arbitrarily designated by their fans as being successful only if they go on forever. If they end for any reason, they are deemed a failure. And of course whoever was writing it failed in their endeavor to keep it going ad infinitum and thus is himself a failure. Q.E.D.

Thus the no-win scenario. The smart writer therefore bails after a handful of issues before an extended stay prompts readers to wander off, as they invariably do. Fortunately for those readers who claim to like it when a creator makes an extended commitment to a series, and unfortunately for my career, I've never been smart in that regard.

PAD

I think it's just the creator-obsessed world we live in. People read more on the back of who is writing as much as what is written. Since for many readers the reason they are reading is because of the creator attached, there is no logical reason for them to think that the book should ever be canceled so long as the writer is there. Because the creator didn't change, why should the quality and thus survivability change? Of course, if the reader bails, they just cite the writer suddenly sucking as the reason.

[pariah-1972]

I honestly don't think this has anything to do with Pad and as much to do with a female centered comic in a very poor economy where lots and lots have books are getting cancelled left and right lately.

I wouldn't be surprised if they cancelled X-factor soon since it isn't tying into post Messiah Complex like the other x-books.

[ANewHope]

I honestly don't think this has anything to do with Pad and as much to do with a female centered comic in a very poor economy where lots and lots have books are getting cancelled left and right lately.

I wouldn't be surprised if they cancelled X-factor soon since it isn't tying into post Messiah Complex like the other x-books.

Bingo! I try to support as many comics as much as I can. But sadly the money has to come from somewhere. Saying that the economy isn't good right now, would be an understatement.

[Alex A Sanchez]

[I]

Here's a tip Peter(oh, sorry, for the sake of putting us on "equal territory"...

I've heard good things about the current arc, so I'll be reading to judge for myself. If I don't like it, I won't hesitate to "dip into your head" again because I assure you, what's in your head is what you put on paper.

Wow. This post is so utterly ignorant and disrespectful that I need to step in here:

#1. You claimed that PAD didn't care about the book, implying that he was not trying.

I judge people for a living- I have a lot of letters behind my name that give me the authority to do so, and I practice the skill on a daily basis. I would never make a claim as ridiculous as yours. It's okay to say that you "suspect", or it "seems like" PAD was not trying, but you don't know, nor do you have any way of knowing, how much effort PAD put into writing his book. You're "assurance" is meaningless.

And as far as establishing authority: your words and judgments have more meaning when there is a name attached to them. For now, we will have to base our evaluations of you on your poor writing and false claims of authority.

Is youre name Jim Shooter? cause if not you would make a wonderful editor.

It can't be. Jim Shooter (and any respectable editor) knows how to construct sentences, can carry an argument through the entirety of a paragraph, and knows the difference between "your" and "you're". :evilangry:

[ZT4]

Boo hoo, colour me "schooled" by someone with obviously less time and intellect to "grasp" the whole point. Just as "PeteyInternetToughtGuy61556" uses people's usernames as a cheap shot, you use people's spelling to close your mind. Nice one. Grow up.

Proven right yet again. I love it.

but you don't know, nor do you have any way of knowing, how much effort PAD put into writing his book. You're "assurance" is meaningless.

Except to who it matters. Myself.

I'm not out to win any "popularity contest", I'm not getting beaten up over the internet, I gave my opinion and told a writer to take the lickings like a man. I'm proud of that. Could he have done things better? As I cited, I have had arguments with other writers but made up with them by the end of it.

And as far as establishing authority: your words and judgments have more meaning when there is a name attached to them.

Hardly, that's a CHOICE, and if you choose to close your mind to criticism...well, Marvel is what it is now...Loeb's HULK in the top ten. I'll let THAT speak for itself:rolleyes:

Nevermind also that you only seem to target people who disagree with you, yet those with BLATANT usernames who agree, are let off the hook. How do you value thier opinion you tiny hypocrite?

...I just reread this whole thread...there's TONS of typos and misspellings in here. Again, more hypocrisy. NICE one Sailor.

For now, we will have to base our evaluations of you on your poor writing and false claims of authority.

Just as I based my evaluations on Peter's "samey" writing and faux impersonation of Eric Cartman's "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH" to state what I stated knowing full well what I was going to get in return.

And who cares what you and your fellow Zombies think of me? I don't, and I'm the one that matters to me in this instance.

MY authority as a FAN and as a CUSTOMER takes precepise over your lord and master, who he FAILED in this instance. He may please me again in the future, I am and always will be a fan of Peter David, but as I said, he's had his off-days, even if he WAS "trying", I didnt see it on paper, and I also cited (if you had the intellect to read the post) that I had talked to writers who actually DID try on titles that were seen as their "off days". If you enjoyed it, great, but I didnt. Boo hoo for me, I let him know WHY, and everyone CRIED over it, taking it too far as usual...which is yet ANOTHER cliche of internet adolescense

That's my opinion. If you feel it's worthless, I don't care, you are worthless to me

Peter, I'd love to put this whole mess behind us, and if we can, that would be preferible and help bring us all around to some sense of clarity.

[paulski]

Settle, guys. As a wise man once wrote, arguing on the internet is like winning at the Special Olympics... you're still retarded. ;)

(Takes deep breath hoping that politically incorrect joke isn't frowned upon...)

Peter, regardless of how I might have personally felt about the direction of the title, you should know better than to waste time on some of the trolls that frequent message boards. It's a waste of time, but more importantly, completely unnecessary. Those mildly intelligent posters among us like myself disregard their ridiculous comments like they were dogpoo on the sidewalk. No one takes them seriously - nor should you. Life's too short. :)

[pariah-1972]

Jeez louise you would think that Peter had ran over someones cat or something by the way some people act on here.

[ZT4]

A few points here

1. I am not a troll

2. I have made it clear several times that I respect Peter David's talent

3. I do not think he tried even if he obviously felt he HAD put 100% in it. This is an opinion as a fan of his previous work, and as a consumer who was not pleased with the product.

4. For a guy telling us all to stop arguing like special olympic candidates, you then go on to call anyone who argues with Peter "trolls" , so which is it?

More hypocrisy.

[LungerTony]

Damn, when I posted earlier it was clear some troll touched a nerve on PAD...but I didn't realize how much of annoying troll "guy above" is.

[ZT4]

I am not a troll

But beleive what you will, I've stated my case, I will remain a fan of Peter David before and after this mess of a thread, and I will judge what he does fairly, not with my lips pressed to his ass.

And you missed an "an" in that sentence (OH MY GODZ! TYPO, DO NOT TAKE SERIOUSLY!)

I love this town.

[Robo Ape]

Theres reasons for that 1. they are not beholden to the stock market and corperate america like the big two 2. they can explore racier themes and artwork.

Very good point.

Easy example to make here showing this was the transfer of The Boys early on in it's run from DC to the indie sector.

As to the two main companies axing so many titles at the moment, well all that will happen is that they will get less of mine and others money.

As too people saying that comics readers will not read comics with female lead characters, why not turn that on it's head & say the big two seem incapable these days of producing a comic with a female lead that will interest people. As I said above their are plenty of indie titles with female lead characters.

[Peter David]

Wow. This post is so utterly ignorant and disrespectful that I need to step in here:

:

Please don't continue to engage this guy on my account. Granted there's some amusement value as he graduates from simple typos (your/you're) to poor grammar (not knowing when to use "whom") and outright wrong word choice (saying "precipice" [note correct spelling] which means an extending overhang rather than "precedence" which mean priority.) Ultimately, though, anyone who is so irony-free that he actually claims he was telling me to take something "like a man" when he is so sans balls that he refuses to sign his name to his opinions even when challenged to do so, simply isn't worth anyone's time.

PAD

[Umbra]

And every show that Joss Whedon has ever written has been canceled.

And every show that Stephen Bocho created has been canceled.

And every show that Aaron Sorkin has ever created has been canceled. In fact, he's been fired off half the shows he created.

Shows get canceled. Comic books get canceled. If you look at the numbering of the current books on the market, it seems that pretty much ALL comic book series get canceled at some point or another. Frankly, in today's market, which tends to penalize books the higher the books go in the numbering, there's zero incentive to keep books going.

Frankly, at this point, I think publishers would be well advised to treat comic books like TV seasons. Twelve issues every year, numbered one through twelve, distinguished by volume. Just do away with ongoing numbering altogther.

As for staying on titles, it would probably serve my career better to just jump from one title to the next rather than stick around and give trolls fodder. Fortunately enough, I was never particularly bright about what served my career well. Even more fortunately, nothing that trolls say matters.

PAD


I agree totally. Sort of like how Manga is done...

[Peter David]

Very good point.

Easy example to make here showing this was the transfer of The Boys early on in it's run from DC to the indie sector.

As to the two main companies axing so many titles at the moment, well all that will happen is that they will get less of mine and others money.

As too people saying that comics readers will not read comics with female lead characters, why not turn that on it's head & say the big two seem incapable these days of producing a comic with a female lead that will interest people. As I said above their are plenty of indie titles with female lead characters.

As the creator of one of them ("Fallen Angel") I agree. But all you do is reinforce the point I was making earlier: lack of support. Based purely on numbers, were She-Hulk an indy title, it would be a huge success. Had "Strangers in Paradise" been a Marvel title, it would have been canceled within half a dozen issues.

PAD

[Flâneur]

As the creator of one of them ("Fallen Angel") I agree. But all you do is reinforce the point I was making earlier: lack of support. Based purely on numbers, were She-Hulk an indy title, it would be a huge success. Had "Strangers in Paradise" been a Marvel title, it would have been canceled within half a dozen issues.

PAD
Oh, and Fallen Angel is not going to leave us anytime soon, I hope? It's my favourite superhero comic, at the moment.

[worstblogever]

I honestly don't think this has anything to do with Pad and as much to do with a female centered comic in a very poor economy where lots and lots have books are getting cancelled left and right lately.

I wouldn't be surprised if they cancelled X-factor soon since it isn't tying into post Messiah Complex like the other x-books.

I would. It's still selling very well, and the fan base on it is not only numerous, but vocal. While there were grumblings over the roster getting reshuffled (-Layla, +mullets) the bottom hasn't fallen out by any stretch of the imagination. X-Factor's a nice compliment to the X-Franchise. It's the one book I can read without having to see any of the cast of Astonishing, at the moment. I get enough of those guys. I want Monet, Siryn, Jaime, and company. And PAD delivers.

As the creator of one of them ("Fallen Angel") I agree. But all you do is reinforce the point I was making earlier: lack of support. Based purely on numbers, were She-Hulk an indy title, it would be a huge success. Had "Strangers in Paradise" been a Marvel title, it would have been canceled within half a dozen issues.

PAD

Therein is the dilemma for a publisher. Critical praise vs. Sales. Only a few people read Christopher Priest's Black Panther, for example, but everyone I know who reads that title thought it brilliant.

And since there was a shift on She-Hulk in tone, the numbers didn't plummet. Some talked of leaving the title, but apparently others jumped on.

The mystery, for me, is that the plug got pulled too fast. I can see one creator be given 2 or more years of about the same sales before it gets yanked, like on New Exiles or New Warriors, and others only get a year, with better ones, like The Order or She-Hulk did.

And if comic publishers want to change the culture, and bring in female readers to a typically male market, this is the kind of book that should be given more of a chance, or that will never happen.

[Robo Ape]

As the creator of one of them ("Fallen Angel") I agree. But all you do is reinforce the point I was making earlier: lack of support. Based purely on numbers, were She-Hulk an indy title, it would be a huge success. Had "Strangers in Paradise" been a Marvel title, it would have been canceled within half a dozen issues.

PAD

The only way forward IMO judging by the treatment that has been meted out to the title by Marvel in the past is for the character to be giving a MAX title. This would allow an indie like freedom to the writing & content that would better serve her. This is nothing to do with who is writing the title but all do with removing the current constraints imposed on the writer & artist from having to produce a mainstream title. Also going to MAX might reduce the sales expectations of the publisher to a more realistic level.

[Umbra]

I would. It's still selling very well, and the fan base on it is not only numerous, but vocal. While there were grumblings over the roster getting reshuffled (-Layla, +mullets) the bottom hasn't fallen out by any stretch of the imagination. X-Factor's a nice compliment to the X-Franchise. It's the one book I can read without having to see any of the cast of Astonishing, at the moment. I get enough of those guys. I want Monet, Siryn, Jaime, and company. And PAD delivers.



Therein is the dilemma for a publisher. Critical praise vs. Sales. Only a few people read Christopher Priest's Black Panther, for example, but everyone I know who reads that title thought it brilliant.

And since there was a shift on She-Hulk in tone, the numbers didn't plummet. Some talked of leaving the title, but apparently others jumped on.

The mystery, for me, is that the plug got pulled too fast. I can see one creator be given 2 or more years of about the same sales before it gets yanked, like on New Exiles or New Warriors, and others only get a year, with better ones, like The Order or She-Hulk did.

And if comic publishers want to change the culture, and bring in female readers to a typically male market, this is the kind of book that should be given more of a chance, or that will never happen.


Agreed and well said.

[Greg Hatcher]

As entertaining as some of you might find it to play "Poke the Angry Dumb Guy With a Stick," every last one of you agreed that you would play nice when you registered in order to post here. It's in the User Agreement. So dial down the personal attacks or we will remove your posting privileges.

One of the big reasons Mike argued for keeping this Hulk board on the site was his claim that the community of Hulk fans here was full of nice people who could disagree without the argument degenerating into the usual internet idiot parade. Frankly, this thread isn't showing us much of that. You all know better.

[Peter David]

Oh, and Fallen Angel is not going to leave us anytime soon, I hope? It's my favourite superhero comic, at the moment.

Following my own advice, we're restarting it after issue #33. It seemed creatively to make sense since #33 finishes a major storyline, and the following four issue story arc will guest star Illyria from Joss Whedon's "Angel." Reasoning that Whedon fans will be more likely to sample a #1 than they would a #34, we're simply beginning the next major chapter in the Angel's life with new numbering. When you read #33, you'll see what I mean.

PAD

[Peter David]

As entertaining as some of you might find it to play "Poke the Angry Dumb Guy With a Stick," every last one of you agreed that you would play nice when you registered in order to post here. It's in the User Agreement. So dial down the personal attacks or we will remove your posting privileges.

One of the big reasons Mike argued for keeping this Hulk board on the site was his claim that the community of Hulk fans here was full of nice people who could disagree without the argument degenerating into the usual internet idiot parade. Frankly, this thread isn't showing us much of that. You all know better.

In my defense, I really don't know better, no. You'd think I would after all this time. I've been involved in internet discussions since the 1990s. But tragically I don't.

You needn't worry further on this particular thread, though. I've already said I had enough of responding to the trolls. It's all been said. Besides, I'm getting enough giggles with the link I was given over to the Crawlspace board where the guy from here posted the entire exchange, persumably so people could give him props for how he handled himself, and for the most part he's just getting smacked around over there. It's pretty hilarious.

Guess this is what happens when I have extra time on my hands when a book gets canceled.

By the way, issue #38 ends on a pun related to Dan Slott's work, so I figure that will make the Slott fans happy.

PAD

[Flâneur]

Following my own advice, we're restarting it after issue #33. It seemed creatively to make sense since #33 finishes a major storyline, and the following four issue story arc will guest star Illyria from Joss Whedon's "Angel." Reasoning that Whedon fans will be more likely to sample a #1 than they would a #34, we're simply beginning the next major chapter in the Angel's life with new numbering. When you read #33, you'll see what I mean.

PAD

Oh, cool. I really liked that Angel issue you did that featured Illyria so I'll be looking forward to that. Does this tie in directly to that After the Fall series that IDW is publishing or is this independent of that?

[seeso]

I'd like to say, just to get it out there, that I really loved your take on Shulkie, PAD. Thanks for a great, but all too brief run. I'm looking forward to your next Marvel project with great anticipation.

[Drdmx]

I have to agree... seeing as how it's the same two guys that are inciting argument, you would think the communication would be sent to the instigators, not those responding or defending themselves. Prefacing an insult with a compliment doesnt not make it an insult anymore. C'mon mods... hold people accountable, dont generalize or use whatever Mike Smash may have said to "keep us in line."

[Froggy]

oh yeah forgot

I liked she hulk

>_<

[Peter David]

Oh, cool. I really liked that Angel issue you did that featured Illyria so I'll be looking forward to that. Does this tie in directly to that After the Fall series that IDW is publishing or is this independent of that?

I considered it, but decided that both for continuity and story purposes, it would be simpler to set it during the original run of the TV series.

PAD

[Flâneur]

I considered it, but decided that both for continuity and story purposes, it would be simpler to set it during the original run of the TV series.

PAD
Cool, thanks. I've already started pimping it!:smile:

Oh and if you're so inclined, would you mind answering I questions I have about some of the previous issues? (There doesn't seem to be anywhere else to ask them)

[StoneGold]

Way I see it, just one of those things. PAD definitely took a risk with the direction he took the book, and I can admire that, but it never quite paid off for me. But hey, here's hoping he can be creatively successful on his other books, and make heaps and heaps of royalty money on the Dark Tower stuff.


That said, I can't say his She-Hulk has ever been "fun," in the "relatively lighthearted superhero stuff that tends not to sell well these days" sense of the word. If anything, he tried to inject some serious darkness into the character, with her refusing to be a superhero and going all bounty hunter. I read it, but I can't say it resonated with me too much.

[YoungG03]

That sums up why I read less and less Marvel and more and more Vertigo/Wildstorm/Image/Dynamite/you-name-it.

House of M, Civil War, World War Hulk, now Secret Invasion hardly over and already Dark Reign is being discussed... I understand why more and more people stick to more stand-alone Marvel titles.

I took a look at February solicits for Marvel and was put off by the huge amount of event-related titles.

I used to read most of the main Marvel series and I enjoyed them because they were much more self-contained. OK, a cameo appearance here and there, some team-ups, the odd Contest of Champions or Infinity Gauntlet and suchlike (but only within mini-series without 178 tie-ins). Sometimes I miss these days.


I dont like stupid crossover books which mean nothing like WWH: Xmen. But i do like cohesiveness of the Marvel U. I like Punisher getting supervillains or Tony addressing the Xmen. (But i dont like that HE himself has to do..I rather a rep doit or something.)

Oh and SheHulk was good. I was reading them but i wouldnt put it at the top of my list. Supergir and WW had me more engaged in their books while heHulk was a drifter or something. She was still cool but I geuss I did not care to much or the stories.

And I hope BP never gets canceled. Its a really great book. I would have never thoghtI I like would like the Wakadan native but there you go.

[b4ustandsi]

That said, I can't say his She-Hulk has ever been "fun," in the "relatively lighthearted superhero stuff that tends not to sell well these days" sense of the word. If anything, he tried to inject some serious darkness into the character, with her refusing to be a superhero and going all bounty hunter. I read it, but I can't say it resonated with me too much.
imo if he had kept she-hulk in nyc and kept the super hero aspect in without the slott siliness, the book would have done much better

[pariah-1972]

Mr. David i sent you a long rambling e-mail and i was wonder if you got it or should i just rephrase my question on here?

[Doc Goblin]

imo if he had kept she-hulk in nyc and kept the super hero aspect in without the slott siliness, the book would have done much better

Yes, thank you. I would have loved this. Keeping Jen as a superhero and lawyer in NYC while trimming away Slott's excessive silliness. Still funny, but not ridiculous. That would have been a fun read, and I would've preferred that over the bounty hunter/road trip thing. I still enjoyed the run, but that was more for PAD's writing and the art. I can't say I was ever that sold on the concept under it all.

I'm not so sure it would have saved the title though. That status quo would've given it stronger ties to the rest of the happening in the Marvel U, so that would've been a plus for it. But I wouldn't claim that alone would have made it last longer.

I'm starting to think now that Marvel screwed up by not directly tying it into World War Hulk. Coming directly out of WWH did wonders for Hercules, but not Shulkie. One of the differences there? Her title didn't directly tie into the event. I say it would've been better if PAD's run started earlier with a WWH tie-in arc. Then sales would've been stronger at the start of his run. He would've had a bigger readership pool to swim in and been that much farther from the shallow end.

[Peter David]

Mr. David i sent you a long rambling e-mail and i was wonder if you got it or should i just rephrase my question on here?

I don't recall getting it, no. Random things land in the AOL spam filter. Every damned e-mail telling me that I've won the African lottery and should spend the money acquiring larger genitalia gets through, while my car reservations and airline tickets land in the spam filter.

PAD

[Rick Summers]

Wait a minute...She-Hulk is canceled? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

[paulski]

A few points here

1. I am not a troll

2. I have made it clear several times that I respect Peter David's talent

3. I do not think he tried even if he obviously felt he HAD put 100% in it. This is an opinion as a fan of his previous work, and as a consumer who was not pleased with the product.

4. For a guy telling us all to stop arguing like special olympic candidates, you then go on to call anyone who argues with Peter "trolls" , so which is it?

More hypocrisy.

I actually wasn't referring to you. If you'd take a look back over the thread, you'd see a number of troll-like comments concerning Peter David. Personally, I agree with a number of your points, just not the disrespectful tone you used.

I expect your apology to be forthcoming shortly.

[pariah-1972]

I don't recall getting it, no. Random things land in the AOL spam filter. Every damned e-mail telling me that I've won the African lottery and should spend the money acquiring larger genitalia gets through, while my car reservations and airline tickets land in the spam filter.

PADEh noone has been getting my e-mails lately but you did respond to me before when i praised you for making x-factor so good:tongue:

Anyways it had to do with why you don't get put on big name books like Uncanny or Superman or Justice League or even big event cross-overs ?

Do you feel like you are not treated with respect in the industry even tho you have tons of fans especially hardcore ones (like me) who want to read anything you have ever written including your star trek books even tho i'm not a trekkie.:redface:

[pariah-1972]

I don't recall getting it, no. Random things land in the AOL spam filter. Every damned e-mail telling me that I've won the African lottery and should spend the money acquiring larger genitalia gets through, while my car reservations and airline tickets land in the spam filter.

PADOh if you win the African lottery you can totally afford the larger genitalia hell you could have a whole harem of women.

and then you wouldnt have to worry about car reservations and airline tickets:tongue:

[Michael P]

I don't recall getting it, no. Random things land in the AOL spam filter. Every damned e-mail telling me that I've won the African lottery and should spend the money acquiring larger genitalia gets through, while my car reservations and airline tickets land in the spam filter.

PAD

Well, frankly, that's what you get for using AOL.

[sneggz]

the fact that the man has stupid amounts of cash?

i mean it's not like he's the average brother off the indy comic rag


the guy is the head of BET entertainment

head of large tv networks=$$$$$$$

so obviously, he, like other stars, can pay their way

if you get what i'm saying

Kevin Grievoux on the other hand manages his own comic site (Vindicators still come out or w/e) and i'm sure isn't as established as Mcduffie is as a writer


lol@ no one getting what i'm saying

Didn't Hudlin get the axe from BET?

[CMBMOOL]

Yes, thank you. I would have loved this. Keeping Jen as a superhero and lawyer in NYC while trimming away Slott's excessive silliness. Still funny, but not ridiculous. That would have been a fun read, and I would've preferred that over the bounty hunter/road trip thing. I still enjoyed the run, but that was more for PAD's writing and the art. I can't say I was ever that sold on the concept under it all.

I'm not so sure it would have saved the title though. That status quo would've given it stronger ties to the rest of the happening in the Marvel U, so that would've been a plus for it. But I wouldn't claim that alone would have made it last longer.

I'm starting to think now that Marvel screwed up by not directly tying it into World War Hulk. Coming directly out of WWH did wonders for Hercules, but not Shulkie. One of the differences there? Her title didn't directly tie into the event. I say it would've been better if PAD's run started earlier with a WWH tie-in arc. Then sales would've been stronger at the start of his run. He would've had a bigger readership pool to swim in and been that much farther from the shallow end.
I must say I do agree with your statement over the fact that She-Hulk should have tied into WWH better, even the last of Slott's issue run brought up how Jen learned of the Hulk's dissapperance and how Marvel handled that reaction is ridiculous. :mad:

[Peter David]

Eh noone has been getting my e-mails lately but you did respond to me before when i praised you for making x-factor so good:tongue:

Anyways it had to do with why you don't get put on big name books like Uncanny or Superman or Justice League or even big event cross-overs ?

Do you feel like you are not treated with respect in the industry even tho you have tons of fans especially hardcore ones (like me) who want to read anything you have ever written including your star trek books even tho i'm not a trekkie.:redface:

I'm writing one of the biggest books Marvel has put out in years: "Dark Tower." That doesn't count?

PAD

[LungerTony]

I don't think it counts unless Spider-man and/or Wolverine make an appearance atleast once every six issues.
So...no.

Oh, and a druggie co-worker of mine got fired a few months ago because she kept annoying customers and co-workers by talking to them about Dark Tower when it was clear all the want to do is eat their food in peace.

[pariah-1972]

Didn't Hudlin get the axe from BET?Yeah but he's rich so he can just buy himself into another company:tongue:

[pariah-1972]

I'm writing one of the biggest books Marvel has put out in years: "Dark Tower." That doesn't count?

PADI've never read The book and i looked at the comic and was confused about how it fit into the book and all.

and that doesn't really count towards what i'm saying see Superman and or big crossover events (Secret War,Crisis) etc etc.

[Peter David]

I've never read The book and i looked at the comic and was confused about how it fit into the book and all.

and that doesn't really count towards what i'm saying see Superman and or big crossover events (Secret War,Crisis) etc etc.

You mean why don't I write those big crossover books? I suppose it's a self-fulfilling cycle: If I were writing mainstream superhero books that sold a hundred thousand copies already, then I'd be called on to write other mainstream superhero books that sell, or are expected to sell, a hundred thousand copies. But I'm not writing those, so when it comes time to find a writer to write a crossover series expected to sell those types of numbers, they go for someone who's already pulling in those types of numbers.

They want the hot new writers. I can be many things, but a hot new writer is not one of them. Bruce Jones became a hot new writer by disappearing from the comics industry for ten years; back when he was writing regularly for Marvel, he was writing "Ka-Zar" and nobody gave a damn. He vanished for a decade, came back, started writing "Hulk," and was "discovered" by tons of fans who hadn't a clue who he was and thought he was someone new. If I were smart, I'd just bail on comics for a decade. But, again, I'm not particularly smart.

PAD

[LungerTony]

Writing comics has blackened Peter David's soul. Have mercy on him.

[Lester C.]

When Peter took over there was a sudden dramatic change in the status quo with no explanation whatsoever so I bailed on the book. That said I don’t know why some people seem happy about this. She-Hulk is going into limbo again only to be mangled every now and again as a supporting character to make another book main lead look good. Peter and everyone associated with the book are going to lose a source of income used to pay their bills and put food on their family’s table. Even if you didn’t like the direction of the book this is nothing to celebrate over.

[pariah-1972]

Writing comics has blackened Peter David's soul. Have mercy on him.Didn't you get the memo? atheists have no soul:biggrin:

[pariah-1972]

When Peter took over there was a sudden dramatic change in the status quo with no explanation whatsoever so I bailed on the book. That said I don’t know why some people seem happy about this. She-Hulk is going into limbo again only to be mangled every now and again as a supporting character to make another book main lead look good. Peter and everyone associated with the book are going to lose a source of income used to pay their bills and put food on their family’s table. Even if you didn’t like the direction of the book this is nothing to celebrate over.Mr. David has a lot on his plate i don't think it's going to go empty anytime soon.:smile:
That said yeah i don't understand this mentality of cheering when a book is canceled wither you liked it or not.

[Lester C.]

Didn't you get the memo? atheists have no soul:biggrin:

Peter not Atheist but Jewish.

[worstblogever]

You mean why don't I write those big crossover books? I suppose it's a self-fulfilling cycle: If I were writing mainstream superhero books that sold a hundred thousand copies already, then I'd be called on to write other mainstream superhero books that sell, or are expected to sell, a hundred thousand copies. But I'm not writing those, so when it comes time to find a writer to write a crossover series expected to sell those types of numbers, they go for someone who's already pulling in those types of numbers.

They want the hot new writers. I can be many things, but a hot new writer is not one of them. Bruce Jones became a hot new writer by disappearing from the comics industry for ten years; back when he was writing regularly for Marvel, he was writing "Ka-Zar" and nobody gave a damn. He vanished for a decade, came back, started writing "Hulk," and was "discovered" by tons of fans who hadn't a clue who he was and thought he was someone new. If I were smart, I'd just bail on comics for a decade. But, again, I'm not particularly smart.

PAD

Just get one of those Graucho Marx masks and change your name to Percy A. David, and pretend to be Peter David's long lost son who's the new "hot creator who can't miss!"

In fact, claim him as a dependent on your taxes this year. You'll rake it in on that, too..

[paulski]

That said yeah i don't understand this mentality of cheering when a book is canceled wither you liked it or not.
Like I said above, I wasn't so much cheering as just being grateful that a title I really, really didn't want to keep on paying $US3 a month for was being put out of its misery.

Why not just drop it, you ask? Well, She-Hulk's basically been my favourite character for the last (counts on fingers...) 28 years and I'll buy pretty much anything with her in it. Even a title that I was getting absolutely no enjoyment out of. :frown:

[Wind-Breaker]

Just get one of those Graucho Marx masks and change your name to Percy A. David, and pretend to be Peter David's long lost son who's the new "hot creator who can't miss!"

In fact, claim him as a dependent on your taxes this year. You'll rake it in on that, too..

*Stands up from computer desk and applauds*

[Lester C.]

Peter David is SSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great, YET EVERY BOOK HE WORKS ON GETS THE AX!:eek:

Can you say overrated? I can & so can Marvel apparently! :tongue:

There is a catch to this. Yes many of Peter David’s books have been cancelled over the years, but what you fail to mention is that nearly all of them had very lengthily critically acclaimed runs.

Look at Supergirl. On the surface his run there was a failure as the entire run, including Linda Danvers and Matrix, have been retconed out of existence. That doesn’t change the fact though that the series went eighty six issues and is considered brilliant by those that have been fortunate enough to have read the whole thing.

[Robo Ape]

This is going to sound terribly cynical but I have to wonder would the use of someone like Frank Cho on art have saved She Hulk from the axe?

[Mark_S]

I don't recall getting it, no. Random things land in the AOL spam filter. Every damned e-mail telling me that I've won the African lottery and should spend the money acquiring larger genitalia gets through, while my car reservations and airline tickets land in the spam filter.

PAD

I get many marriage offers from Russian women. :)

Mark_S

[Peter David]

When Peter took over there was a sudden dramatic change in the status quo with no explanation whatsoever so I bailed on the book. .

The change in status quo was, I felt, necessitated by the fact that she was betrayed by just about everyone she had ever trusted. I felt that having her operate as if nothing had happened would make no sense and not ring true. I was obviously wrong, considering that her fighting side by side with Tony Stark in "Hulk" when she should have, by all rights, wanted nothing to do with him, seemed to bother very few readers. Or at least not enough to damage sales on that title.

In terms of accomplishing the status change, the time jump seemed the most dramatic way to do it. I credited She-Hulk fans to have the same patience as fans of "Lost" or "Desperate Housewives." Since you aren't alone in jumping ship because of that decision on my part, obviously I was wrong again. That's not said with hostility. That's just fact.

Should I not have given the fans that much credit? You tell me.

PAD

[Peter David]

Mr. David has a lot on his plate i don't think it's going to go empty anytime soon.:smile:
That said yeah i don't understand this mentality of cheering when a book is canceled wither you liked it or not.

The technical term for it is "schadenfreude." Read up on it and then you'll understand.

PAD

[Flâneur]

The change in status was, I felt, necessitated by the fact that she was betrayed by just about everyone she had ever trusted. I felt that having her operate as if nothing had happened would make no sense and not ring true. Considering that her fighting side by side with Tony Stark in "Hulk" when she should have, by all rights, wanted nothing to do with him, seemed to bother almost no one, I was obviously wrong. In terms of accomplishing the status change, the time jump seemed the most dramatic way to do it. I credited She-Hulk fans to have the same patience as fans of "Lost" or "Desperate Housewives." Since you aren't alone in jumping ship because of that decision on my part, obviously I was wrong again. That's not said with hostility. That's just fact.

PAD
Actually, I remember there being an entire thread that at one time devolved purely into bitching of why Jennifer was working with Stark and I was part of a group who was disappointed that she still wasn't hauling him up in court. You also posted in one of those threads, I think, about that saying that because of the way the shared universe worked your hands were tied in that area. I wish it were otherwise, I reallllllly do not like what happened in 'Hulk', though I feel that way about everything in that title.

[Peter David]

This is going to sound terribly cynical but I have to wonder would the use of someone like Frank Cho on art have saved She Hulk from the axe?

Of course it would. Just as if an unpopular or lousy artist were drawing Jeph's book, "Hulk's" numbers would be way down. People are far more inclined to allow a book to grow on them storywise if they love the art than they are if they hate, or are indifferent to, the art.

PAD

[Peter David]

Actually, I remember there being an entire thread that at one time devolved purely into bitching of why Jennifer was working with Stark and I was part of a group who was disappointed that she still wasn't hauling him up in court. You also posted in one of those threads, I think, about that saying that because of the way the shared universe worked your hands were tied in that area. I wish it were otherwise, I reallllllly do not like what happened in 'Hulk', though I feel that way about everything in that title.

Yeah, but as I further clarified in my edited posting (which naturally you couldn't have read) it wasn't to any sort of significant degree--significant in this case being measured by sales impact.

PAD

[Soundrave]

The change in status quo was, I felt, necessitated by the fact that she was betrayed by just about everyone she had ever trusted. I felt that having her operate as if nothing had happened would make no sense and not ring true. I was obviously wrong, considering that her fighting side by side with Tony Stark in "Hulk" when she should have, by all rights, wanted nothing to do with him, seemed to bother very few readers. Or at least not enough to damage sales on that title.

In terms of accomplishing the status change, the time jump seemed the most dramatic way to do it. I credited She-Hulk fans to have the same patience as fans of "Lost" or "Desperate Housewives." Since you aren't alone in jumping ship because of that decision on my part, obviously I was wrong again. That's not said with hostility. That's just fact.

Should I not have given the fans that much credit? You tell me.

PAD


The kids these days are all about hot artists, gimmicks, and over-hyped Hollywood writers. They'd rather have have mindless fights and nonsensical revelations rather than real character development and substance.

[pariah-1972]

Like I said above, I wasn't so much cheering as just being grateful that a title I really, really didn't want to keep on paying $US3 a month for was being put out of its misery.

Why not just drop it, you ask? Well, She-Hulk's basically been my favourite character for the last (counts on fingers...) 28 years and I'll buy pretty much anything with her in it. Even a title that I was getting absolutely no enjoyment out of. :frown:Well you can't really blame anyone if you have that kind of ocd for a character.


If shes your favorite then you should be happy to have all of her issues that's the meaning of a true fan i think.

[pariah-1972]

The technical term for it is "schadenfreude." Read up on it and then you'll understand.

PADI've heard it before but i thought it meant something else:redface:

[Splatt]

The kids these days are all about hot artists, gimmicks, and over-hyped Hollywood writers. They'd rather have have mindless fights and nonsensical revelations rather than real character development and substance.

Don't blame kids. Blame the goverment.

ITS ALL A CONSPIRACY I TELL YA!

[Sandy Hausler]

When Peter took over there was a sudden dramatic change in the status quo with no explanation whatsoever so I bailed on the book.

While I was unhappy with the change (as a lawyer, I liked the idea of She-Hulk being a lawyer, practicing law), but I like Peter's work (in general, not always), so I stayed with it. But after a significant period of time, we still have not really been brought up to date on how She-Hulk got to where she is. We know how she got disbarred. We know why the Skrull is on Earth. But, unless I missed something (always a possiblity), we still do not know why Jen is hanging with the Skrull. Peter's She-Hulk has been fair to very good, but it really does not compare to Slott's run, which I thought Slott's run was brilliant. Nor does it match his work on the Hulk, which I thought was fantastic. Oh well, I'm sure his next book will be worth looking at.

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

Peter not Atheist but Jewish.

And if anyone says "same thing," they'll have to answer to me.:biggrin:

Sandy Hausler

[Robo Ape]

Of course it would. Just as if an unpopular or lousy artist were drawing Jeph's book, "Hulk's" numbers would be way down. People are far more inclined to allow a book to grow on them storywise if they love the art than they are if they hate, or are indifferent to, the art.

PAD

All I will say on the art front is of late I don't think it was best served in this area. It's not necessarily I thought the art was bad just that I didn't think the style completely suited the title.

[StoneGold]

Y'know, at the end of the day, it was a mid-range character who was already just barely supporting a book, with a change of direction, art that tended to be less than awesome... the hottest writer working today could have been on the book and it would have struggled.


And Peter? You don't have to disappear, just dye your hair and tell everyone you're Dan Slott.

[pariah-1972]

I went back and read most of Slott's run so i could catch up on Peter Davids run last week or so and i liked it but it felt sort of lightweight a lot of times and it wasn't quite as funny as it thought it was.

I did love that the law firm had comic books in there basement for reference that was a brilliant idea especially since it has been firmly established that marvel comics exist in the marvel universe.

Maybe Mr. David will come back to her some other time like he has with X-factor and Hulk.