Changes to the Superman line!!!

[comicum18]

I haven´t seen a thread on this one yet, so tell me what you think:eek:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/11/dc-sends-superm.html
Pretty exciting stuff:confused:

[elise]

Gahhh... I don't particularly like the sound of this.

[CBikle]

On the surface, the changes to Superman don't sound good and I wonder how they'll mesh with the Kandor storyline.

The other stuff sounds promising, but you can never tell with Didio.

[eggie]

What? Where are Johns and Frank going to be? Still on a Superman tite I hope....please let them still be on Superman!!!

[comicum18]

What? Where are Johns and Frank going to be? Still on a Superman tite I hope....please let them still be on Superman!!!

Probably they will go to Adventure Comics, which is going to be a Superman and LOSH book, so they will keep on a superman book.

[Ilash]

Yeah, so what's going to happen with Geoff Johns and Gary Frank. Does this really mean that they're going to keep James Robinson on Superman rather the brilliant team of Johns/ Frank. Oh and the whole Superman in Space thing... yeah, that's really been done already. In Superman: Exile most notably. I'm vaguely interested to see who the new stars of Action Comics but I'm really at a loss as to why they'd mess with something that has been working so well in recent months. It's very very strange.

[Ghost Shark]

Superman has been the star of "Action Comics" for its entire run, essentially, and he will be leaving it and handing it over to new characters.

Stupidest thing I've heard in a long, long time. Right up there with "Hey, let's make Spidey single again."

I'm not much of a traditionalist, I don't think, but this smacks of sheer dumbassery. Unless it's just a temporary ploy, in which it is cheap and stupid.

[Mister Intensity]

This sounds like Action Comics Weekly all over again. I wonder how long it will take before it becomes a Superman title again?

[Lupek]

I just hope that whatever happens they keep Johns and Frank together working on a Superman book. If it turns out to be Adventure Comics featuring Superman and the Legion of Superheroes that takes away some of the sting of losing them in Action.

I am open to the Action Comics deal. Hopefully it stays Super-mythos-centric. Maybe they could move Supergirl into the book? She seems like the biggest draw, aside from the Legion, of characters from the Super books other than Superman. Then when it's time to move Supes back into Action Comics they can relaunch Supergirl with a new number one and try to regain some of the Supergirl audience they lost after her books initial sales success.

[Will J.]

I cringe now every time I hear DiDio speak.:confused:

[Rollo_Tomasi]

talk about changes, over in today's LitG, Rich says James Robinson had an argument with Didio and is now off the Superman books. ouch.

[Joe Acro]

I'm not much of a traditionalist, I don't think, but this smacks of sheer dumbassery. Unless it's just a temporary ploy, in which it is cheap and stupid.I agree.

I seriously cannot see this being good for the company.

[Rev. Calibos]

So we'll see Superman step aside as the solo lead of Action:


http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/01097054512.601.gif

and in about a year or so we'll see his triumphant return:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/01062288700.643.gif

Meh.

[earl]

"Oh yeah, we are going to do something great. We are getting rid of our two main characters in some usual recognizable form, which is really what all of our fans are asking us to do."

This is how I read all of this stuff. No one really buys much of the DC's comics outside of Batman and Superman, so they go and completely change those up in a way that might alienate the fan base of their backbone franchises. That seems pretty stupid to me, but hey maybe they know something I don't. It won't sell any more of their other comics, but hey maybe they will get to the point NONE of their stuff sells.

Good luck with that one! It is only Action comics, which pretty much runs the history of your company and industry.

[Rev. Calibos]

"Oh yeah, we are going to do something great. We are getting rid of our two main characters in some usual recognizable form, which is really what all of our fans are asking us to do."

This is how I read all of this stuff. No one really buys much of the DC's comics outside of Batman and Superman, so they go and completely change those up in a way that might alienate the fan base of their backbone franchises. That seems pretty stupid to me, but hey maybe they know something I don't. It won't sell any more of their other comics, but hey maybe they will get to the point NONE of their stuff sells.

Good luck with that one! It is only Action comics, which pretty much runs the history of your company and industry.

It also seems kind of bizarre given how they've JUST reintroduced the triangle numbering to Action/Superman/Supergirl to give tighten things up between those three books continuity wise.

Action is literally the one that all others have followed. Removing Superman from that title is ridiculous on so many levels it's hard to fathom.

I suppose DiDio will now be able to tell all the Slam Bradley/Zatara stories he's been itching to tell, lol.

[Pawpower]

I have been gone from comics for many years, but kept up with them through friends, and online information. Getting married, having three kids, sports, school, helping the wife with more school, you know the bit, kept me out of the loop. A great friend of mine, that I met though comics, passed away, at a young age, 36. He was still into comics, and loved Superman. Since then I have been spending alot of time, back at the comics shop, talking with old friends, and picking up comics. I have tried my best to keep up with the DC Universe. I have read all the R.I.P. tie ins, the entire Batman family, JSA, JLA. Now I can say after reading all of these....


WTF??? :eek: Sorry that is the only thing that comes to mind. Some stories are good, but WHAT, is going on.:confused: I am more confused now, than before Crisis on Infin. Earths. I do understand the overall scope, but can not, for the life of me, understand WHY? I just don't get the purpose. Maybe, I am to old now to understand, and should not have come back. I am just disappointed in, I guess the directions of the books. May be that is it...I just don't know right now.

[earl]

I can see trying to bring back Adventure comics, after all if nothing else to keep the copy right for the title 'Adventure Comics', but it was canceled in 1983, a great portion of your readers were not even freaking born.

Moving Superman out of Action seems dumb and possibly damaging the value of that title. There is no doubt that eventually Superman would end up back in that title at some point or they will just cancel Action outright, which would be pretty much comic book heresy. That is only about a step away from something even more crass and just restarting Action, Superman, Batman and Detective over at #1.

Dumb.

[Spiffy]

talk about changes, over in today's LitG, Rich says James Robinson had an argument with Didio and is now off the Superman books. ouch.
Wow. That's like a repeat of JMS and Joe Quesada.

[CBikle]

This might also piss off readers who have subscriptions to Action Comics, who get it expecting to read about Superman (it'll also cause some confusion around pull-lists).

[Rattlehead]

"Hey guys, you know how Marvel got all of that publicity by killing Captain America?"

"Yeah."

"Well, I just had a great idea. What if we not only replace our biggest icon with somebody else, we'll replace our second icon within the pages of our most iconic and historic title! That'll really get people talking!"

"Brilliant!":rolleyes:

[Sean Walsh]

Wow. That's like a repeat of JMS and Joe Quesada.

But JMS is still writing THOR indefinitely, as well as THE TWELVE.

This more of a repeat of Dixon and Didio.

And Shooter and Didio.

And probably 4 somebody elses and Didio.

[Mat001]

It's bunk. Matt Idelson contacted the Superman Homepage. http://www.supermanhomepage.com

UPDATE: Superman comic book editor Matt Idelson contacted the Superman Homepage today to debunk this story. It's not true. James Robinson has NOT quit the Superman comic books.

[HopeLantern]

The more I hear about Didio's plans for Superman, the more worried I become. I think bringing back Adventure comics is an awesome idea, but Superman should not be moving out of Action Comics...

[We R. Venom]

What is this I hear about Superman going out into space? Is this after New Krypton or something?

[Samy]

During New Krypton. Presumably the presence of Kandorians on Earth somehow motivates Superman to go into space. Me, I think it's to go find them another place to live.

[Mat001]

No, he leaves afterwards. The solicit for Superman #685 reads as follows.

An "Origins and Omens" issue! Continued from ACTION COMICS #874! With "New Krypton" behind him (for now), Superman must come to terms with the death of Pa Kent. And things heat up in Metropolis when the mysterious new Nightwing and Flamebird take up residence in the Man of Steel's hometown! Are they here to help Earth like they say – or do their ties to Kandor run too deep?

This story sets up next month's new status quo as Superman makes a tough decision, the repercussions of which will be felt for years!

[Karl O'Neill]

Anything to do with the legion of superheroes is good news to me, while i can't envision just yet what it would be like to read superman every month is space as long as geoff johns is involved i'll be a happy camper.

[super_brandon25]

This is really not good news. Every time I hear DiDio, I just want to kick him straight in the balls. I have no respect for an exec. who cares nothing about the fans who go out and put money in his wallet. I'm a huge fan and supporter of all things Superman but I cannot support DC's decision to take Superman basically out of Action and put Adventure in the forefront. Although, I love Geoff Johns...I wonder if he had some part in the decision?

It's really sad how DC treats their backbone characters. I haven't read Batman RIP but from what people have been telling me, it's the most horrible story arc in Batman history. And now since Action has been amazing...they basically just want to take it to a different direction.

Superman has been in Action Comics since 1938 and the only time he really wasn't: The Death of Superman.

Marvel is clearly at top right now and DC knows if they don't change some major characters they won't be at the top. Which that's ignorant because DC knows nothing about consistency.

Consider me a whiner right now...but it's true. It's just an ignorant move.

[WorstThingUS]

Nothing that gets Robinson off Superman can be all bad. Now we can be spared a conversation where Superman says how hot he thought Phantom Lady and Hawkwoman were.

[David Atkins]

Superman's entire mythos is steeped in sci-fi and space travel and aliens and whatnot. He's a character that lends himself well to space-faring adventures.

I hope he meets Freelance the Space Pirate again. :biggrin:

The shake-up in Action will probably be another kind of 'World Without a Superman' story, where other characters move to fill in the gap left by his absence. Characters like Supergirl, Steel, the Guardian, Bibbo, Gangbuster (Busiek dusted him off, let's keep him around!), etc, etc, etc.

I hope we see the Alpha-Centurian again. :biggrin:

[kentish]

I don't get this. I am all for bringing back Adventure, as I like the historical appeal (and maybe Johns writing Legion). But why would they take Superman out of Action. He IS Action Comics. After years, they finally get Action restored as one of the premiere books in the business, as it should be, and then do this? It went from a book I didn't read to the top of my pull list within the span of 6 months after Johns and Frank took over. I don't get it.

[ZT4]

I hope this isnt them trying to intergrate elements of Superman Returns into the comics. We've seen the "exile" stuff before, and at a stage in Clark's life where it'd be regarded as in-character. I think it has to have more to do with Supes going on a major search for a Kryptonian colony for the Kandorians, but Earth typically goes to hell without him.

[Samy]

But why would they take Superman out of Action.I'm certain that part of the reason is to increase the appeal of ADVENTURE while it's launched -- make Superman scarcer elsewhere, translates to a few additional sales for ADVENTURE #1.

Not the entire reason, no, but part of it.

Another part, I'm sure, is that it simply fits the story they are telling right now. They want to tell the story of the spaceside adventure and they want to tell the story of what's happening back on Earth. Obviously, Superman the character can only appear in one of those. If they had both books follow Superman into space, then we wouldn't be seeing at all how the situation builds on Earth.

[Mat001]

I hope this isnt them trying to intergrate elements of Superman Returns into the comics. We've seen the "exile" stuff before, and at a stage in Clark's life where it'd be regarded as in-character. I think it has to have more to do with Supes going on a major search for a Kryptonian colony for the Kandorians, but Earth typically goes to hell without him.

Yeah, it's not that they're doing "Superman Returns", but rather finding the planet that Kandor will settle on. Rokkyn.

[Magneto Rocks]

I'm hearing from certain sources that there's a possibility of a new Superman book launch out of this whole thing- driven in large part by an internal controversy over at DC.

[Gandolk]

Eh I don't like it

[Cipranzi]

I'm actually really excited for the Batman stuff coming up, mostly because Gaiman and O'Neill are each gonna write a couple issues.

As far as the Superman stuff goes, as long as Johns is writing him I won't mind.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I'll wait and see. I love the idea of Superman having adventures in space, but I'm not sure about Superman NOT being the star of Action Comics.

[Mat001]

I think the idea is that Action Comics will be home to Nightwing, Flamebird and the supporting cast. Superman will be home to Clark's adventures while he is offworld. Adventure will be the Legion series.

[Mat001]

Dan Didio speaks over at Newsarama about Superman.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110826-Didio3.html

[Sean Walsh]

So to review:


ACTION COMICS by Greg Rucka (!!!) and Eddy Barrows, featuring Flamebird and Nightwing

SUPERMAN continues to be piloted by James Robinson and Renato Guedes

SUPERGIRL is still Sterling Gates and Jamal Igle.

NEW KRYPTON gets its own series, by Andrew Kreisberg (the new writer of Green Arrow/Black Canary) and Pete Woods (finally, they put him on a Superman ongoing!)

Geoff Johns and Gary Frank move to a new SUPERMAN: SECRET ORIGIN miniseries (similar in tone to GL's SECRET ORIGIN arc)


Sounds good. :smile:

[Magneto Rocks]

Not that I mind the new launches, RUCKA or the fact that we're finally getting a definitive origin for the Man of Steel post-IC, but when Dan DiDio says that James Robinson is steering the Superman franchise from hereonin, I die a little inside.

[Ilash]

Well, it was fun while it lasted. Thanks DC for getting rid of Johns and Frank from Action Comics, I so hated looking forward to that book month in and month out. And the rest of the plans sound moronic so... pffft.

Edit: Oh and another bloody origin for Superman! I'll be there for the creative team but this is such a terrible waste of their talent.

[md62]

ACTION COMICS by Greg Rucka and Eddy Barrows, featuring Flamebird and Nightwing - I will try it because I like the creative team. Depends on who Nightwing & Flamebird are & the premise of why they are around post NK.

SUPERMAN by James Robinson and Renato Guedes - on the fence. Not crazy about Superman in space storylines & I'm not a fan of Guedes' art style.

SUPERGIRL by Sterling Gates and Jamal Igle. Man I can't believe a creative team could turn around a book so quickly. Definitely keeping on my list!

NEW KRYPTON by Andrew Kreisberg and Pete Woods. Skip. Not interested in this concept as an ongoing.

SUPERMAN: SECRET ORIGIN miniseries by Geoff Johns & Gary Frank. I will get it because of the creative team but a bit disappointed for what this may mean for Adventure Comics (either a significant delay or they are not the creative team).

[Lupek]

I've been loving the Superman franchise the past 3 years and this news doesn't sound good to me. It's funny, I'm finally enjoying the Supergirl book, but now I may be dropping the Super titles altogether.

Losing Johns and Frank and Superman in Action Comics is bad enough but Rucka is a definite drop from my list.

And Robinsons Superman has been pretty mediocre so far. I'm open to the space story but not enthused with the book as of yet.

If I wind up dropping Superman along with Action, I don't see me sticking with Supergirl or buying New Krypton.

Ooofah! First the Bat books, now the Super books. All I've got left is the Green Lantern books and the upcoming Flash Rebirth. Boo! Hiss!

[torippu]

Johns & Frank did an awesome job of getting me excited about reading a monthly Superman book...it's only fitting that *another* creative team change takes place at DC that kills any entusiasm I had and/or momentum for the book. Come 2009, it doesn't look like I am going to be reading all that many DC books. At least, DC has allowed Johns to have a long run on Green Lantern...

[torippu]

Sorry...double post

[G. Wayne]

This might also piss off readers who have subscriptions to Action Comics, who get it expecting to read about Superman...

Yeah, like me. :mad:

Well... there goes my run of Action Comics. Hmmm, wonder what the next longest one I have is?

[Mat001]

Man, people complain about everything. First off, DC didn't boot Johns off. We've known that he was going to do "Secret Origin" ever since he started the last one over in GL. The only difference is that it is a mini-series rather than a monthly series. Second, we've got Rucka on Action, which is good since he did very well over in Adventures.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that people following creators more than characters is a bad thing.

[G. Wayne]

...
Geoff Johns and Gary Frank move to a new SUPERMAN: SECRET ORIGIN miniseries (similar in tone to GL's SECRET ORIGIN arc)...

OhfertheluvvaRao, -AGAIN- with the origin retelling?! I don't care who the artistic team is. Why does this need to be done?! What does Johns want to retro insert THIS time?!

[Ilash]

Man, people complain about everything. First off, DC didn't boot Johns off. We've known that he was going to do "Secret Origin" ever since he started the last one over in GL. The only difference is that it is a mini-series rather than a monthly series. Second, we've got Rucka on Action, which is good since he did very well over in Adventures.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that people following creators more than characters is a bad thing.

Hey, I like Rucka but I don't have any interest in what Action Comics is going to be for the next while.

And I don't care if he always planned it, I still think that another arc that covers Superman's origin is just such a waste of time. How many of the freakin' things do we really need?

[Lupek]

Man, people complain about everything.

They even complain about people complaining. :wink:

[Zero Hunter]

I am looking forward to the Secret Origin book by Johns and Frank. I have alot of faith in Johns to go through all the muddled up mess Supermans backstory has become and pick out the best parts and tie them all toegther using the best bits out of each.

[Maestro]

What the hell. Action Comics was my favorite DC title. I'm sick of Superman origin stories!! Birthright was good enough.

[md62]

The more I thought about this the more I think DC is missing a chance to get readers on board for Adventure Comics # 1. Instead of doing Superman: Secret Origins as a mini series have that arc relaunch the book....

[John Lynch]

I'm looking forward to Action Comics with Nightwing and Firebird, as well as New Krypton. I just hope its accessible to someone who hasn't been following the New Krypton storyline beforehand. I also hope I can just pick up Action Comics and get an enjoyable and complete story.

I'm a bit dissapointed Jimmy won't be getting an ongoing out of all of this though :frown:

[super_brandon25]

I'm definitely not for Johns and Frank leaving Action and with Superman not in the book I won't be picking it up but I actually like the idea of a Superman: Secret Origin. I've always been a sucker for good origin stories especially Superman. I loved Mark Waid's mini-series origin Birthright.

I think DC is so worried about attracting new readers, that they want to keep re-introducing the characters. On the other hand, I think if they just write GREAT stories and keep that consistency going...they will attract new readers.

For example, my college instructor (who I didn't know was a fan of comics) and I were talking about the upcoming Green Lantern movie and I told him the new Secret Origin arc of Johns' was awesome. I let him borrow all 7 issues and now he's hooked!

So, I can see from the perspective of a new reader coming to DC how they will attract new readers on that level, who don't know a lot about the DC universe and all the Crisis' madness.

2009 looks a great year for Johns though...he's got Flash: Rebirth, The Blackest Night coming to GL and now this new stuff.

[Augusto]

This is what Greg Rucka Said to Supermanhomepage (http://www.supermanhomepage.com) about this issue:

On the back of Dan DiDio announcing that Superman would be vacating the pages of "Action Comics" and leaving it to the new Flamebird and Nightwing, the Superman Homepage contacted writer Greg Rucka to get his take on the new title.
We asked him, as the newly announced writer of the book, why Superman fans should continue to purchase "Action Comics" if Superman wasn't in it?

"You cannot have a DCU without Superman. He is the foundation upon which the rest of the universe rests. In all sincerity, I mean that," explains Rucka. "And while Superman will not be obviously present in Action, everything that happens, everything that Nightwing and Flamebird do, is absolutely influenced and guided by him. To say more would be to give away the story, not solely in Action but in the other titles as well."

"I've never been very good at waving the banner and shouting "read this! read this!" and I absolutely understand hesitation at picking up an Action Comics where Superman is not seen. Hopefully, when the time comes, the work will go some lengths to explaining what is happening, and why, and how Superman's presence, even when he himself is absent, is always felt, and always inspiring."

I'll give it a try, Action Comics deserves it, at least for the memories...

[Ilash]

I'm definitely not for Johns and Frank leaving Action and with Superman not in the book I won't be picking it up but I actually like the idea of a Superman: Secret Origin. I've always been a sucker for good origin stories especially Superman. I loved Mark Waid's mini-series origin Birthright.

I think DC is so worried about attracting new readers, that they want to keep re-introducing the characters. On the other hand, I think if they just write GREAT stories and keep that consistency going...they will attract new readers.

For example, my college instructor (who I didn't know was a fan of comics) and I were talking about the upcoming Green Lantern movie and I told him the new Secret Origin arc of Johns' was awesome. I let him borrow all 7 issues and now he's hooked!

So, I can see from the perspective of a new reader coming to DC how they will attract new readers on that level, who don't know a lot about the DC universe and all the Crisis' madness.

2009 looks a great year for Johns though...he's got Flash: Rebirth, The Blackest Night coming to GL and now this new stuff.

Yeah but who on earth doesn't know Superman's origin. It is just so redundant at this point.

[Super Buddies Forever]

I was hyper-critical of Birthright when it came out, but I now recognize that it's a solid origin story that actually goes out of its way to blend the best of the Silver Age with John Byrne's Man of Steel.

Somehow, I don't think Johns will strike that same balance. Come on, the only reason they're doing this and subverting Birthright so quickly is because they want to restore even more elements from their childhoods and are using the never-ending series of Crisis events as their justification. I mean, what was so wrong with Birthright's Krypton that it needed changing yet again?

Even that cover seriously bothers me, in that Pa and Ma are now apparently elderly again when Clark was a child. How does that work? So Ma is apparently 120 years young at this point?

Oh well. At the end of the DiDio regime there's just going to be another "defining" Superman origin, and another, and another, until this creative tug of war between our favorite eras destroys us all.

[DonC]

So to review:


ACTION COMICS by Greg Rucka (!!!) and Eddy Barrows, featuring Flamebird and Nightwing

SUPERMAN continues to be piloted by James Robinson and Renato Guedes

SUPERGIRL is still Sterling Gates and Jamal Igle.

Not bad. Robinson hasn't impressed me yet, but I'll keep reading for a little while longer. And Rucka's a great writer so I'll give him a shot with Nightwing and Flamebird.

NEW KRYPTON gets its own series, by Andrew Kreisberg (the new writer of Green Arrow/Black Canary) and Pete Woods (finally, they put him on a Superman ongoing!)

Geoff Johns and Gary Frank move to a new SUPERMAN: SECRET ORIGIN miniseries (similar in tone to GL's SECRET ORIGIN arc)


Sounds good. :smile:

And here's the not good. I was really hoping New Krypton/Kandor would wind up back in a bottle somewhere best left forgotten. And while I don't mind seeing yet another post-Crisis Superman origin, do it in one of the main titles. That way we can read it without shelling out an extra $3 a month.

[md62]

I was really hoping New Krypton/Kandor would wind up back in a bottle somewhere best left forgotten. And while I don't mind seeing yet another post-Crisis Superman origin, do it in one of the main titles. That way we can read it without shelling out an extra $3 a month.

I agree with both points. Hopefully New Krypton is the relocation of the city of Kandor to another planet. And yeah I'm annoyed too about having the origin story be a mini series. Let it be in the Superman & Action titles. Or have it be the first arc in the new Adventure series to get readers to try the title.

[comicum18]

SUPERMAN: I really like how Robinson has been handling the Metropolis supporting cast, and if this is what this book will be about, I´m on board

ACTION COMICS: I was a little suspicious about this one, but now knowing that Rucka nad Barrows will be taking it I´m totally on board.

SUPERMAN NEW KRYPTON: I don´t know about this one. Let´s see what Kreisberg and Woods can do. I`ll give it a fais chance.

SUPERMAN SECRET ORIGIN: Johns; Frank. I´m there. Good idea making it a limited series instead of putting it in the ongoing like in GREEN LANTERN. Hope this team also gets choosen to make ADVENTURE COMICS.:tongue:

[Augusto]

I mean, what was so wrong with Birthright's Krypton that it needed changing yet again?



IIRC, Birthright was meant to adjust Superman comics to Smallville

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Nevermind, Supermancho beat me to posting Rucka's comments.

[Mat001]

I mean, what was so wrong with Birthright's Krypton that it needed changing yet again?

Because a lot of people didn't like that version of Krypton. Apparently, a lot of writers didn't even want to use it. And while Waid did come up with some good stuff, there were other things that needed to change in order to have the stories we've had for the last few years.

Even that cover seriously bothers me, in that Pa and Ma are now apparently elderly again when Clark was a child. How does that work? So Ma is apparently 120 years young at this point?

Wow, do you talk to your parents that way? Wait until you get that old.

[Will.S]

I like Greg Rucka but I do not care for Action starring Nightwing and Flamebird on top of Eddy Barrows illustrating it.

It's both surprising and not surprising that DC took this long to actually reveal all the post Infinite Crisis changes. I'm assuming that they were slowly building up the story with Geoff regarding what to use for Superman's origin since they were only giving us vague clues. But still, this should have been done earlier and closer to the post IC stuff than now.

I will pick up the Secret Origin stuff but as soon as Geoff leaves Action, I think I'll be dropping the Superman books.

[DonC]

Wow, do you talk to your parents that way? Wait until you get that old.



He had a valid point. Ma and Pa Kent started out old in Man of Steel, then got young in Birthright, and are now back to being old again post-Final Crisis. Every new origin brings a new age for the Kents. I think there was even a time where Ma Kent was drawn like a MILF, but that only lasted like 3 issues.

[Mat001]

He had a valid point. Ma and Pa Kent started out old in Man of Steel, then got young in Birthright, and are now back to being old again post-Final Crisis. Every new origin brings a new age for the Kents. I think there was even a time where Ma Kent was drawn like a MILF, but that only lasted like 3 issues.

"Birthright" they were drawn to look like John Schnider and Annette O'Toole. All that's changed is that they're using Gary Frank and Eric Powell's redesigns. Otherwise, they've either been portrayed as being an older couple or in their early 40's.

And when people complain about the origin, I remember not more than two years ago that they wanted to know what the origin was this time and couldn't wait to see it. And if you think that DC hasn't gone over Superman's origin a lot, take a look at the last 70 years. Every ten years they make changes. A lot of people liked "Birthright" at first, but once it was made official, they turned on it. The only thing this series is doing, which Didio pointed out, was it is showing Clark growing up in Smallville. It's not about the destruction of Krypton, but how Clark grew up understanding his heritage and when he started using his powers.

[Mike Smith]

Is Didio always so idiotic and vexing? Why remove Superman from Action? This is going to make the readers happy? Has everyone been sending letters in to Didio saying 'come up with horrible idea and gimmick to keep us talking! Make it involve the two most recognized characters!'

I think someone has gone beyond having imaginary friends and is getting imaginary fan mail requests.

With a possible return of a Silver Age feel, I can see a usefulness of some more fun space-based, weird alien world stories for Superman. Why have have off stories somewhere and a continuing normal run? Maybe the most popular characters can be expanded a bit more and people will still buy.

[Super Buddies Forever]

My point is that Ma and Pa being an older couple while Clark was young was the canon during the Superboy years, but that was changed Post-Crisis to allow them to still be around. They shouldn't be drawn age 70 when Clark is a little boy.

It's the inverse of the Birthright problem, where Ma and Pa were being drawn, while Clark was an adult, as barely a day over thirty.

[JCAll]

Geoff Johns and Gary Frank move to a new SUPERMAN: SECRET ORIGIN miniseries (similar in tone to GL's SECRET ORIGIN arc)

Boo!

The Green Lantern origin was horrible, coming partly because it came right in the middle of an ongoing story and partly because it told us nothing that hasn't been told before except that Red Lanterns are bad. Endlessly retelling the same story never leads to anything good.

Also, instead of removing Superman from Action to put him on Adventure, why can't he just be in both? It's about seven decades too late to start worrying about Superman becoming over exposed, but if that actually is the reason they ought to just kill off one of the pointless Superman minis that come out each month. Like, say for example, this one.

[Doc Goblin]

ACTION COMICS - I don't really have any interest yet in the mysterious new Flamebird and Nightwing, so I didn't plan on reading this once Johns left. Greg Rucka changes that. He's enough reason for me to check it out.

SUPERMAN - I've enjoyed Robinson's run well enough so far. I think I'll stick with it for the duration. I'm not sold on the space thing, but I'll see.

SUPERGIRL - I don't know about this. It's been unimpressive so far. The new take on Supergirl seems to lack the strong-willed, rebellious streak from before. I'm not sold on either the secret identity idea or having her parents around. I don't expect to be a reader once New Krypton ends.

NEW KRYPTON - Another one I'm not sure about. I can't say I'm thrilled with the idea that Kandor and all these Kryptonians will be around for the long haul. Not familiar with the writer, but I plan on checking out how he does with GA/BC. If he's impressive, maybe I'll check this out too.

SUPERMAN: SECRET ORIGIN - I didn't read Birthright, and seeing a new definitive origin for Superman appeals to me. I did enjoy the Green Lantern arc and all.

[The Batman]

So to review:


ACTION COMICS by Greg Rucka (!!!) and Eddy Barrows, featuring Flamebird and Nightwing



That Rucka is going to be writing it has now got me interested in seeing what happens with Flamebird and Nightwing. Before this, I was considering skipping the Supermanless Action Comics.



SUPERMAN continues to be piloted by James Robinson and Renato Guedes

SUPERGIRL is still Sterling Gates and Jamal Igle.

NEW KRYPTON gets its own series, by Andrew Kreisberg (the new writer of Green Arrow/Black Canary) and Pete Woods (finally, they put him on a Superman ongoing!)

Geoff Johns and Gary Frank move to a new SUPERMAN: SECRET ORIGIN miniseries (similar in tone to GL's SECRET ORIGIN arc)


Sounds good. :smile:

Mostly. I willing to stick around with Robinson for a little while longer and I've beem really liked Gates and Ingle's Supergirl, but I'm not sold on New Krypton yet. I'm still of the mind that it needs to end up back in the bottle or written out somewhere else. We'll see if my mind's changed by the time that book comes out.

As to "Secret Origin" I'd have liked to have seen it included in the main books just for old time's sake.

Also, here (http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?gid=727) are Frank's covers for the mini. I just found them up at Newsarama.

[CBikle]

I'm not a fan of constant mass radical changes in my monthly titles; Johns hasn't really been on Action that long and now he's jumping ship to do a secret origin mini that I have no interest in. Johns seems to jump start a franchise and then leaps off to use electric paddles on another dead or dying franchise.

[PastePotPete]

Is Didio always so idiotic and vexing? Why remove Superman from Action? This is going to make the readers happy? Has everyone been sending letters in to Didio saying 'come up with horrible idea and gimmick to keep us talking! .


Why are people so mad about Superman being removed from Action? There's still plenty of Superman to read. He'll still have his own title, a six-month miniseries and New Krypton will be very much about Superman even if he's not in every issue. Action Comics is just a title.

Maybe you could cut the logo off your issues of Action Comics and paste it onto your issues of Superman: Secret Origin?

The only reason I'll be giving Secret Origin a shot is because the Green Lantern one was so good and tied in heavily to what's going on with current events in Green Lantern. I'm sure Johns will follow the same formula here. So I'm generally against retooling and retelling origins, but Johns is an exception.

Nightwing and Flamebird? I loved Checkmate. I've disliked FC: Revelations. I love new (or new to me) characters so I'll give it a shot.

[Mat001]

My point is that Ma and Pa being an older couple while Clark was young was the canon during the Superboy years, but that was changed Post-Crisis to allow them to still be around. They shouldn't be drawn age 70 when Clark is a little boy.

It's the inverse of the Birthright problem, where Ma and Pa were being drawn, while Clark was an adult, as barely a day over thirty.

They've always been old. Long before Superboy came about, back when the early Superman stories were told, they were an elderly couple. They were only made younger in the "Man Of Steel" era flashbacks to have them in the present day as an older couple and in "Birthright" it was done to tie into "Smallville". All that's being done is that they're going back to the basics with the Kents. And we know that Superboy is now in continuity with those old Superboy and Legion stories being partial canon.

Boo!

The Green Lantern origin was horrible, coming partly because it came right in the middle of an ongoing story and partly because it told us nothing that hasn't been told before except that Red Lanterns are bad. Endlessly retelling the same story never leads to anything good.

The GL story established how the fear thing was viewed by the GL's, set up the Red Lanterns, explained Abin Sur's death in a more fitting manner and tied it all into "The Blackest Night".

Also, instead of removing Superman from Action to put him on Adventure, why can't he just be in both? It's about seven decades too late to start worrying about Superman becoming over exposed, but if that actually is the reason they ought to just kill off one of the pointless Superman minis that come out each month. Like, say for example, this one.

I don't think it is because of overexposure. You've got Superman where Clark is offworld and the main story is focused there by Robinson. Action is giving us Nightwing and Flamebird, while advancing the story on Earth there. Supergirl is pretty much following the same course that we have been for the last two issues. Adventure is focusing on the Legion. New Krypton will handle other aspects. Each title is connected, but also following its own course. Besides, I doubt this would be forever. It's just for the duration and Clark will be back in Action by the end of 2010.


I'm not a fan of constant mass radical changes in my monthly titles; Johns hasn't really been on Action that long and now he's jumping ship to do a secret origin mini that I have no interest in. Johns seems to jump start a franchise and then leaps off to use electric paddles on another dead or dying franchise.

He's not done with Superman. Even after "Secret Origin" is finished, he'll still be involved with Superman. This is just to allow him to tell the story without interrupting the present.

[CBikle]

I don't think it is because of overexposure. You've got Superman where Clark is offworld and the main story is focused there by Robinson. Action is giving us Nightwing and Flamebird, while advancing the story on Earth there. Supergirl is pretty much following the same course that we have been for the last two issues. Adventure is focusing on the Legion. New Krypton will handle other aspects. Each title is connected, but also following its own course. Besides, I doubt this would be forever. It's just for the duration and Clark will be back in Action by the end of 2010.

He's [Geoff Johns] not done with Superman. Even after "Secret Origin" is finished, he'll still be involved with Superman. This is just to allow him to tell the story without interrupting the present.

Nah, this is an unnecessarily disruptive way of doing things and a very risky and ballsy move on DC's part, especially considering the current state of the economy where many longtime comics fans are evaluating what comics they're going to continue buying or even if they're just going to stop reading/collecting them altogether. This shake-up in the Superman titles might be the tipping point.

[CBikle]

Why are people so mad about Superman being removed from Action? There's still plenty of Superman to read. He'll still have his own title, a six-month miniseries and New Krypton will be very much about Superman even if he's not in every issue. Action Comics is just a title.


Not quite. Personally, I tend to buy books based on both the writer and the subject matter. If I bought a subscription to Action Comics (or added it to my pull list) because I wanted to read Superman adventures by Geoff Johns, I might not be happy about the comic turning into Nightwing & Flamebird adventures by Rucka or some other writer I'm not a huge fan of.

Also, many readers feel that another retelling of Superman's origin is unnecessary, especially since it seems that's the reason why Action is losing Johns.

[Mat001]

Yet the same fans wanted the origin and others were pissed at Johns for including "Secret Origin" in the middle of the GL book. DC cannot win with fans. They might was well stop making stories with the way people bitch. Hell, for all we know, Action Comics might see a sales increase without Superman in it.

[Rev. Calibos]

Yet the same fans wanted the origin and others were pissed at Johns for including "Secret Origin" in the middle of the GL book. DC cannot win with fans. They might was well stop making stories with the way people bitch. Hell, for all we know, Action Comics might see a sales increase without Superman in it.

The thing is, Secret Origin in GL made sense and allowed fans to take a breath after the Sinestro War and give them a bit of time to prepare for the upcoming Blackest Night intro.

It was, what, a 6, 7 issue breather?

It gave folks that wanted to jump on board a chance to hop on and it gave older fans some new layers to examine in Hal's earliest days as a ring slinger.

On the Superman side of things, they've found a real nice rhythm with the three books (Action, Superman, Supergirl) and immediately out of the gates they announce that everything is going to change again, lol.

Now I'm a glass is half full sort so I'll at least give it a whirl before I make any decisions, but the concern is completely valid.

Remember when they tried this back in the 80's? Action went weekly for some of the same reasons that DC is giving now:

'Action is the flagship title of DC.....'

'Action used to showcase a variety of characters.....'

'Superman already has a number of titles out there, losing one will make little difference.......'


It's just something that's already been done.

What we're going to see is a double sized, gala 'FIRST NEW ISSUE!!! GREAT JUMPING ON POINT!!!' and in, oh, I'd say about a year, maybe a year and a half we're going to see Superman return as the sole star of Action with a double sized gala 'FIRST NEW ISSUE!!! RETURN TO GREATNESS!!! GREAT JUMPING ON POINT!!'

Is that a lock? Meh, I wouldn't say it was 100% but it's up there, I'd say at least 80-85% this is what's going to happen.

Action Comics started off with a rotating cast of characters, true, but for the OVERWHELMING majority of time that this book has been published, during that 70 years, Superman has been the solo star of the book.

7 decades. It's an equation that doesn't need fiddling with.

[C. Earl]

Action #866 was my first Superman comic and I loved it enough to put it on my pull list immediately. Of all the Superman titles, this one had all the elements I liked the most--Superman and his supporting cast of characters. But I'll be dropping the title now. Couldn't care less about Nightboy and Flamegirl or whoever their names are...

[CBikle]

DC cannot win with fans. They might was well stop making stories with the way people bitch.

Nah, the Superman titles were stabilized and starting to grow; this shake-up was unnecessary and just seems to be destroying the momentum that the titles were beginning to get.

Also, don't you get why people might be a little annoyed when the writer and the character are taken from a book they enjoyed reading ?

I think if Robinson leaves, I'll probably be done with the Superman books.

[Karl O'Neill]

wait and see i say. i mean johns, rucka, gates. robinson and kriesberg all working on the superman line can't be a bad thing?

[CBikle]

wait and see i say. i mean johns, rucka, gates. robinson and kriesberg all working on the superman line can't be a bad thing?

Rucka's not bad, but he's not a writer I normally enjoy. I'm inclined to give Kreisberg a shot because he has interesting writing credentials (he wrote for Justice League Unlimited and Boston Legal). I think experimenting with formats and writers is a good thing, I just hate the way DC takes the path of most confusion to implement those changes.

[Karl O'Neill]

Rucka's not bad, but he's not a writer I normally enjoy. I'm inclined to give Kreisberg a shot because he has interesting writing credentials (he wrote for Justice League Unlimited and Boston Legal). I think experimenting with formats and writers is a good thing, I just hate the way DC takes the path of most confusion to implement those changes.

you see, To be Honest, When Johns done the secret origin arc in Green lantern, which IMHO was awesome and a worthy addition to the mythoes, still some people complained about the change in pace after the sinestro corps war, Because origin took place at an earlier part of hal jordans career.

At least now with supes, the flow is not altered at all, because Robinson and the boys(gates, kreisberg, rucka) can all continue building on what johns has kickstarted for them.

it;s all good i think, but if it turns out bad, i promise, i'll be the first to admit it.

[mgs]

I wonder if the lawsuit had anything to do with the changes?

[Mat001]

Nah, the Superman titles were stabilized and starting to grow; this shake-up was unnecessary and just seems to be destroying the momentum that the titles were beginning to get.

This has been the plan for a while, as Rucka told us in the Newsarama interview. It was growing out of what "New Krypton" started and is a 12 issue deal.

Also, don't you get why people might be a little annoyed when the writer and the character are taken from a book they enjoyed reading ?

No, because I know it's not a long term decision and as I've said before, I don't play favorites with the creative teams. I've come for Superman stories and characters who are part of his world. When creative teams shift, I don't immediately abandon ship. You might be comfortable with that, but I'm not.

[CBikle]

This has been the plan for a while, as Rucka told us in the Newsarama interview. It was growing out of what "New Krypton" started and is a 12 issue deal.

Then the readership was somewhat misled; having been given the impression that Geoff Johns would be on Action telling Superman stories for the long haul.


No, because I know it's not a long term decision and as I've said before, I don't play favorites with the creative teams. I've come for Superman stories and characters who are part of his world. When creative teams shift, I don't immediately abandon ship. You might be comfortable with that, but I'm not.

Absolutely I'm comfortable with it. Why should I (or anyone) continue to buy a book that I don't (or they don't) enjoy ?

And let's be honest, until the recent creative teams, the Superman books have been 20 + years worth of barely-readable dreck; the changeover in writers was
the only reason I came on board in the first place.

I'm a big fan of the Superman character, but I don't see supporting lackluster or miscast creative teams as showing some sort of "loyalty" to Superman (and frankly, having loyalty to a fictitious character is a little weird anyways).

[Mat001]

Then the readership was somewhat misled; having been given the impression that Geoff Johns would be on Action telling Superman stories for the long haul.

I think he was going to be on Action telling "Secret Origin", while Robinson and Gates handled the rest. It was just deemed feesible to give it as mini-series and have another creative team handle the story. So it wasn't quite a misled.

Absolutely I'm comfortable with it. Why should I (or anyone) continue to buy a book that I don't (or they don't) enjoy ?

Well, to be honest, you haven't even read the story yet. Neither have I. If you gave it a fair shake and didn't like it, then it would make sense not to stay with it.

And let's be honest, until the recent creative teams, the Superman books have been 20 + years worth of barely-readable dreck; the changeover in writers was the only reason I came on board in the first place.

Well, in your opinion. Save for a few stories here and there, to me at least, there has been some good stuff. In your case, it seems you disliked "Man Of Steel" and almost all of the stories that came out of it. In which case, it is understandable if you had quit.

I'm a big fan of the Superman character, but I don't see supporting lackluster or miscast creative teams as showing some sort of "loyalty" to Superman (and frankly, having loyalty to a fictitious character is a little weird anyways).

I don't know if it is really a loyalty thing, so much as if you enjoy the character, then it shouldn't really matter if there is a change in the creative teams. Maybe it is loyalty. What I do know is that when I started reading years ago, I didn't know any of the creative people involved. I was only interested in Superman stories. Same with Batman, Spider-Man and the Hulk. I never saw a reason to quit when Jerry Ordway stopped writing Adventures Of Superman and was replaced by Karl Kessel. Or Ron Frenz replaced Dan Jurgens as the artist on Superman. To me, as long as the stories were still worthwhile, then that was all that mattered. And clear up until I had to stop collecting for financial reasons, I was satisfied with my purchases. When I came back, sure I knew some of the faces. I knew Geoff Johns, Kurt Busiek, Adam Kubert, Richard Donner and Fabian Nicieza. But I wasn't concerned so much about them as what was going on in the books and where they were heading.

Maybe I'm weird, but I'm one of those who is more interested in characters over creative teams.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Maybe I'm weird, but I'm one of those who is more interested in characters over creative teams.

Showing loyalty to the greatest Superhero of them all is not being weird.

It's Superman. 'Nuff said.:wink: :cool:

[Mat001]

It's not just Superman, but a lot of characters that I read or have read.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

No worries.

I'll be following the books. The Rucka interview piqued my interest.