Question about collecting Morrison's Run

[Liberty Belle Fan]

I'm trying to catch up on the entire Morrison run on Batman. Did his run begin with Batman & Son? I'm attempting to pick up the trades to catch up on some of the work before Ra's Al Ghul.

[4thHorseman]

Yes, Batman and Son is where you should begin.

[beserkerclaw]

in trades Morrisons run is Batman and Son the follwed by Ressurrection of Ra's al ghuol trade the The Black Glove trade plus Batman R.I.P.

[JohnShil]

Vol. 1. Batman and Son (665-668, 663-666)
-------- The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul (670-671)
Vol. 2. The Black Glove (667-669, 672-675)
Vol. 3. Batman RIP (676-683)

The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul is skippable.

[Liberty Belle Fan]

Thanks all - I'll start with Batman & Son.

[Kiryu]

I just want to echo and emphasize that the Ra's Ah Ghul arc is VERY VERY skippable.

[Tanjint]

at least read the Morrison issues of resurrection.

also, this is how I define Morrison's run:

Arkham Asylum
Gothic
JLA run
JLA:Earth II
JLA:Ultramarine Corps
52(specifically, week twent-seven)
Batman and Son
Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul
the Black Glove
DCU 0
RIP
Final Crisis

There's a theory I have....that I will warn thee now about as far as spoilers and such.....




SPOILERS














Arkham Asylum was Morrison's initial statement about Batman: this dude is as crazy as his villains...he's a hair-length away from being with them in the asylum...RIP I suspect will end up with Bruce in the asylum....thus fulfilling the cycle/idea promised in Arkham Asylum.


-T

[JohnShil]

Arkham Asylum was Morrison's initial statement about Batman: this dude is as crazy as his villains...he's a hair-length away from being with them in the asylum...RIP I suspect will end up with Bruce in the asylum....thus fulfilling the cycle/idea promised in Arkham Asylum.


-T

Morrison's said that ARKHAM ASYLUM was essentially lampooning the idea at the time that Batman had to be mentally unstable / fit for Arkham. Recently, he said he wanted to bring Batman / Bruce back to being a completely sane individual.

[Tanjint]

It seemed like that for a while but now he seems pretty intent on setiing him up as crazy for awhile...but I think it's like Bru's cap run...at the end of the necrodelic Batman comic story he wants to set up and create, I can see him restoring Bruce as a sane dude.

I think I recall the comments you're referring to and they seemed to me to be more referring to Bruce on a social level as opposed to his sanity but I see what you're saying.


-T

[Karl Cook]

at least read the Morrison issues of resurrection.

also, this is how I define Morrison's run:

Arkham Asylum
Gothic
JLA run
JLA:Earth II
JLA:Ultramarine Corps
52(specifically, week twent-seven)
Batman and Son
Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul
the Black Glove
DCU 0
RIP
Final Crisis

There's a theory I have....that I will warn thee now about as far as spoilers and such.....




SPOILERS














Arkham Asylum was Morrison's initial statement about Batman: this dude is as crazy as his villains...he's a hair-length away from being with them in the asylum...RIP I suspect will end up with Bruce in the asylum....thus fulfilling the cycle/idea promised in Arkham Asylum.


-T

I agree. I've been saying this for months now: All roads lead to Arkham...

[mofo]

heh
isnt it funny how a simple question like "in which issue did grant morrison start writing" goes off on a tangent?
focus children!

[Karl Cook]

heh
isnt it funny how a simple question like "in which issue did grant morrison start writing" goes off on a tangent?
focus children!

Sorry, "mother"...:tongue:

[Tanjint]

heh
isnt it funny how a simple question like "in which issue did grant morrison start writing" goes off on a tangent?
focus children!

well this discussion is relevant to answering the question.

though Morrison's current run at Batman started a couple years ago with Andy Kubert, one could look at Morrison's Batman as in everything Morrison's ever done with Batman and the question becomes more complex, especially if one, such as myself, about how older works like Arkham Asylum thematically tie in to the newer stories.

-T

[NakedOni]

I hope he doesn't get locked up. I want him to stay crazy, purple-and-red-wearing Batman. I'd really like to see crazy Batman fighting for the cowl in Battle for the Cowl (not gonna happen, I know, but I can hope).

[chrisgiff]

I agree. I've been saying this for months now: All roads lead to Arkham...

this is an interesting theory that i haven't really thought about yet.

it would be intense because his secret identity would almost certainly have to be revealed to Gotham.

[kalika]

I hope he doesn't get locked up. I want him to stay crazy, purple-and-red-wearing Batman. I'd really like to see crazy Batman fighting for the cowl in Battle for the Cowl (not gonna happen, I know, but I can hope).

That's a funny image...Batman of Zur-en-Arrh fighting right along with the rest of the lot. I can totally see it. I bet he and Jason would have some fun conversations.

[mourasantos]

I really don't see Morrison's take on Batman in JLA having anything to do with his current take on the character, for example.
...and I don't really see Arkham Asylum informing any of his later works, that is to say, there doesn't seem to be an overarching quality to his portrails of the character.

PS: my favourite version of Batman so far has been in his run on JLA.

[Tanjint]

Morrison, in the script notes to Asylum mentions that his JLA stories take place years after the events in Asylum.

Also...."Hh."


oh and his identity would have to be revealed were he kept at arkham? Like Harvey Dent's at the end of "The Dark Knight"?

-T

[davepaton]

I don't know what secret identity batman has left after RIP. The joker and gordon would have to be complete dumb-asses not to know that batman is bruce. I'm really interested in how they're gonna deal with this.

[pressdarlings]

I just want to echo and emphasize that the Ra's Ah Ghul arc is VERY VERY skippable.

Elaborate.

[Kiryu]

Elaborate.

Sure, a few different sets of reasons.

Morrison only wrote two issues of it. Of all his issues since #655 to present, those two issues have the least to do with Morrison's overall Batman theme. They also don't relate or tie into his current work on Batman in anyway aside from being Tony Daniel's debut on the title. Also the outcome of the story is handled in Detective. Morrison has often described his Batman run as a long form novel, the RIP Storyline begins on the first page of 655 and every issue of his run has contributed to that. From the Zur-En-Arrrh graffiti, the fake Batmen, Damien, Dr Hurt, Joe Chill, the Club of Heroes, Jezebel Jet, and Tim's family issues/pseudo sibling rivalry with Damien. RoRAG incorporates none of these elements aside from Damien but does not really contribute anything more to the Damien character that is relevant to Morrison's Batman.

The OP asked "About collecting Morrison's run", I don't consider RoRAG a part of his run for the reasons stated above. And since it contributes nothing to Morrison's run, as he does not take the Ra's thread any further(neither does anyone else).

Furthermore, and this might be spoilerish territory, I think it was a very very poorly handled and unnecessary crossover. Morrison obviously wanted nothing to do with it and the 'Tec issues are my least favorite of Dini's. Ra's returns but is swiftly taken completely out of the picture one issue later in 'Tec and has, to my knowledge, only been referenced once since that. A, what, 8 or 9 part crossover that revived Ra's Ah Ghul for the specific purpose of him doing absolutely nothing? Also a big crossover is about a guy who's specific schtick is returning to life, returning to life. Seems anti-climatic from the get-go. All it accomplishes is returning Ra's to life with no bearing on the rest of the Bat-verse.

In summation, I feel it is entirely skippable because

A) It's not part of Morrison's run and contains none of the themes or plot threads the rest of it does.

B) Is entirely skippable because it has no bearing on ANY book that participated. One issue later Ra's is swept under the carpet and is for all intents and purposes, dead again but with the option to make a less spectacular return. Not only that, but since that crossover ended and there has been, as I recall, one panel to reference Ra's since then.

If you're a big fan of Ra's Ah Ghul or Batman in Knight armor, then I guess you can give it a whirl. In my opinion it isn't anything spectacular and isn't destined to go on to become a defining moment for Ra's.

[pressdarlings]

Sure, a few different sets of reasons.

Morrison only wrote two issues of it. Of all his issues since #655 to present, those two issues have the least to do with Morrison's overall Batman theme. They also don't relate or tie into his current work on Batman in anyway aside from being Tony Daniel's debut on the title. Also the outcome of the story is handled in Detective. Morrison has often described his Batman run as a long form novel, the RIP Storyline begins on the first page of 655 and every issue of his run has contributed to that. From the Zur-En-Arrrh graffiti, the fake Batmen, Damien, Dr Hurt, Joe Chill, the Club of Heroes, Jezebel Jet, and Tim's family issues/pseudo sibling rivalry with Damien. RoRAG incorporates none of these elements aside from Damien but does not really contribute anything more to the Damien character that is relevant to Morrison's Batman.

The OP asked "About collecting Morrison's run", I don't consider RoRAG a part of his run for the reasons stated above. And since it contributes nothing to Morrison's run, as he does not take the Ra's thread any further(neither does anyone else).

Furthermore, and this might be spoilerish territory, I think it was a very very poorly handled and unnecessary crossover. Morrison obviously wanted nothing to do with it and the 'Tec issues are my least favorite of Dini's. Ra's returns but is swiftly taken completely out of the picture one issue later in 'Tec and has, to my knowledge, only been referenced once since that. A, what, 8 or 9 part crossover that revived Ra's Ah Ghul for the specific purpose of him doing absolutely nothing? Also a big crossover is about a guy who's specific schtick is returning to life, returning to life. Seems anti-climatic from the get-go. All it accomplishes is returning Ra's to life with no bearing on the rest of the Bat-verse.

In summation, I feel it is entirely skippable because

A) It's not part of Morrison's run and contains none of the themes or plot threads the rest of it does.

B) Is entirely skippable because it has no bearing on ANY book that participated. One issue later Ra's is swept under the carpet and is for all intents and purposes, dead again but with the option to make a less spectacular return. Not only that, but since that crossover ended and there has been, as I recall, one panel to reference Ra's since then.

If you're a big fan of Ra's Ah Ghul or Batman in Knight armor, then I guess you can give it a whirl. In my opinion it isn't anything spectacular and isn't destined to go on to become a defining moment for Ra's.

You just stated every reason I avoid Ra's stories (i.e "a guy who's specific schtick is returning to life, returning to life"). Son of the Demon, aside (and that isn't even a 100% spectacular, imo), I've never been a fan of his. Nor of the "James Bond-type Batman" story. Bats in knight armor? I'll pass.

Dini ever make a reference to this arc?

I'm catching up "chronologically", so I'm in the middle of Knightfall right now and would prefer to avoid unnecessary or severely retconned material. Especially when it deals with Ra's. I have a copy of Bride of the Demon as well and haven't bothered reading it yet.

But thanks for your 2 cents. It helps.

[stealthwise]

Morrison, in the script notes to Asylum mentions that his JLA stories take place years after the events in Asylum.

Also...."Hh."


oh and his identity would have to be revealed were he kept at arkham? Like Harvey Dent's at the end of "The Dark Knight"?

-T

Spoilers*


Harvey Dent died at the end of The Dark Knight.

[Kiryu]

You just stated every reason I avoid Ra's stories (i.e "a guy who's specific schtick is returning to life, returning to life"). Son of the Demon, aside (and that isn't even a 100% spectacular, imo), I've never been a fan of his. Nor of the "James Bond-type Batman" story. Bats in knight armor? I'll pass.

Dini ever make a reference to this arc?

I'm catching up "chronologically", so I'm in the middle of Knightfall right now and would prefer to avoid unnecessary or severely retconned material. Especially when it deals with Ra's. I have a copy of Bride of the Demon as well and haven't bothered reading it yet.

But thanks for your 2 cents. It helps.

As I recall, the issue directly after the whole shebang ends is in 'Tec is by Dini. This is spoilerish so....

In it Ra's is all "Screw You Batman, you messed with my eternal life plan so now I'm making Gotham my own!" and Batman was like "I just spend 9 issues kicking your ass, get out of my face". Then he puts him in a chemically induced coma and sticks him in Arkham with falsified ID so no one knows who he is.

Yeah, that's right. A nine issue crossover to bring him back to life and the MOMENT IT ENDS he is put in a coma, as good as dead, with the only difference being that his return will be less spectacular. I think there is one panel in 'Tec where the League breaks him out, but he has not been seen or referenced anywhere in the DCU since then. He isn't even at the big villain pow-wow in Final Crisis.

Word of the wise, if you want to skip stuff, skip War Games. Any thing it brought to the table is no longer relevant except some bits with Oracle.

[pressdarlings]

As I recall, the issue directly after the whole shebang ends is in 'Tec is by Dini. This is spoilerish so....

In it Ra's is all "Screw You Batman, you messed with my eternal life plan so now I'm making Gotham my own!" and Batman was like "I just spend 9 issues kicking your ass, get out of my face". Then he puts him in a chemically induced coma and sticks him in Arkham with falsified ID so no one knows who he is.

Yeah, that's right. A nine issue crossover to bring him back to life and the MOMENT IT ENDS he is put in a coma, as good as dead, with the only difference being that his return will be less spectacular. I think there is one panel in 'Tec where the League breaks him out, but he has not been seen or referenced anywhere in the DCU since then. He isn't even at the big villain pow-wow in Final Crisis.

Word of the wise, if you want to skip stuff, skip War Games. Any thing it brought to the table is no longer relevant except some bits with Oracle.

Skip War Games?? Everyone was telling me to go out and get it but to just avoid War Crimes.

[Kiryu]

I'm catching up "chronologically", so I'm in the middle of Knightfall right now and would prefer to avoid unnecessary or severely retconned material.


It is my personal opinion that War Games was a total mess. While the concept, Batman being so badass he has a plan to end crime, is cool, the execution and handling of it all was really sloppy. I don't think you miss anything by not reading the story, I certainly didn't, as I passed over it when it was monthly and read it after it finished. I feel the setting, "Gotham overrun and out of control" is very much a re-tread of No Man's Land, which I feel is vastly superior.

Beyond that, it has been severely retconned. The major moment in the series was un-done in Chuck Dixon's Robin run. Black Mask vanished after Winnick's run ended.

But hey, your mileage may vary. I would personally try and get it from a local library before plunking down the cash.

And now this poor thread is severely derailed, my apologies.