Action Comics #871: Big Ole Pile Of Super-Fun! (Spoilers)

[WorstThingUS]

From the opening conversation between the two Kryptonian soliders to Luthor's conversation with Sam Lane (who shoots him for getting smart, and you know Luthor isn't going to forget that) to the battle with Doomsday where they, yes, PICK HIS ASS UP AND TAKE HIM OFF THE PLANET THE WAY SUPERMAN ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE, to the final page which was worth the price alone: Nightwing and Flamebird! Kicking ass and taking names!

Looking forward to the next chapter in Supergirl...

[4thHorseman]

Just flipped through it, will read it after work.

Can't say the art impressed me any...

[Jack Zodiac]

It looked a little rushed, but it was still pretty good. I'd love seeing Pete Woods do more Superman stories. Or hell, more DC work in general.

So... "tactile telekinesis," eh? How about that?

[Samuraixsithlord]

so is this Nightwing the original Kryptonian superhero that Dick got his name from

[Retro315]

That is the question.

Clearly if he isn't, then he was inspired by the very same vigilante story Superman told Nightwing when he was looking for inspiration, and which Superman himself used when he entered the Bottle City of ... Named After Kandor.

But if he is (I hope he is, it's always cooler I think to get the real deal, and kind of more meaningful), I hope he's a new favorite. His costume certainly kicks all sorts of butt.

Pete Woods' art suffices (it's always better to get more Gary Frank, but if the pause allows Frank to catch way up on the Action issues that are to come after, I can't complain). Woods' art is at least a step above Guedes (not leaps and bounds, but definitely cleaner).

[Jack Zodiac]

Most likely not. Nor is Flamebird the original, considering the original Flamebird was a man. Nightwing is either Kon-El, or Johns is throwing us a red herring with that "tactile telekinesis" line. If it is Kon-El, though, that could mean Flamebird is Linda Danvers.

[We R. Venom]

Since I just started Superman, this is highly confusing lol. Takes some time. Patience too. But fun to read.

[Rev. Calibos]

Love the Kryptonian dog pile on Doomsday near the end there. They seem to be getting a fairly good hold over their powers pretty quickly, eh?

[Jack Tango]

Most likely not. Nor is Flamebird the original, considering the original Flamebird was a man. Nightwing is either Kon-El, or Johns is throwing us a red herring with that "tactile telekinesis" line. If it is Kon-El, though, that could mean Flamebird is Linda Danvers.

That's exactly what I thought when I read the comics. I'm crossing my fingers that it's *not* a Red Herring...

[ultramandingo]

............ id rath read a whole funny book of luthor and general lane going at it - who needs a dooms day punch fest

[Slaughter]

It's just me or the issue was a mite rushed?

to the battle with Doomsday where they, yes, PICK HIS ASS UP AND TAKE HIM OFF THE PLANET THE WAY SUPERMAN ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE

Well, Supes did not had a small army of super-powered Kryptonians to help him at the time. And he was less powerful. Frankly, Doomsday was a little jobbed here. And it seems Johns hans't read Hunter/Prey. Doomsday adapts. He should've not paid any mind to those heat vision blasts, though massive kryptonian beatdown is pretty much the only way to beat him. I knew they were going to beat him with a massive Kryptonian atack, but I expected more bloody kryptonian heads lying around, what with fighting a cosmic horror that can beat Superman to death. Also, Doomsday has no blood. He is pure rock solid matter. Silly, silly mistake, Johns.

And "Doomsday is dead?" Yeah, sure. Tell yourselves that at the night before going to sleep. How much time until the USA governament gets him off that rock and maybe even work some enhancements on him? Wans't some guy turned into a Doomsday-clone with KRYPTONITE BONES by the USA in Superman/Batman?

Sam Lane shooting Lex Luthor was easily worth five issue. General Lane is made of pure badassery and awesome!

[WorstThingUS]

Just flipped through it, will read it after work.

Can't say the art impressed me any...

That's what Alex Ross' Kingdom Come Special Superman is for. He penciled and inked it.

so is this Nightwing the original Kryptonian superhero that Dick got his name from

The way Superman told the story in Nightwing: Year One, it made it seem like he was a hero from the distant past, so this may be the latest person to hold the title. And color me impressed Flamebird isn't half-naked or wearing heels!



And "Doomsday is dead?" Yeah, sure. Tell yourselves that at the night before going to sleep. How much time until the USA governament gets him off that rock and maybe even work some enhancements on him? Wans't some guy turned into a Doomsday-clone with KRYPTONITE BONES by the USA in Superman/Batman?


This is why I asked on another thread if this was even the "real" Doomsday. I'm thinking "no." And given he's supposed to be sentient now, isn't it odd Superman would just let him be beaten to death?

[SeritoNiN]

Rushed issue, still decent read, didn't care for how Doomsday was treated.

[Mat001]

From the opening conversation between the two Kryptonian soliders to Luthor's conversation with Sam Lane (who shoots him for getting smart, and you know Luthor isn't going to forget that) to the battle with Doomsday where they, yes, PICK HIS ASS UP AND TAKE HIM OFF THE PLANET THE WAY SUPERMAN ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE, to the final page which was worth the price alone: Nightwing and Flamebird! Kicking ass and taking names!

He did take his ass off Earth, but then Doomsday broke free and fell back to Earth.

[WorstThingUS]

He did take his ass off Earth, but then Doomsday broke free and fell back to Earth.

He only tried once, which always bugged the hell out of me. At one point he even thinks to himself, "Doomsday leaps but doesn't fly. Long as I have him off the ground I have some advantage." The Kryptonians flying him off the planet here was like a sweet reward for all of us who wonder why Superman doesn't do that every time (aside from comic book contrivance in order to have big super-fights, I mean).

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

I'm surprised Supes didn't react right away to that nasty beatdown on poor Doomsday, but I'm sure it will be a plot point somewhere down the line.

You know, to show the difference between Superman and any old schlub who happens to have superpowers...

[Retro315]

Man, these New Krypton chapters go by way too fast! I was done with it faster than a speeding bullet, and I can't wait till next chapter (luckily running it weekly by running it throughout the titles takes away any bitter waiting periods).

Nothing but good stuff to say about this chapter, although again, it raises more questions than it answers old ones.

Zod's loyalists were pretty reasonable, but are such hardcore devotees that they've already decided the world needs Zod. Their cold-blooded butts certainly do. Right away we get a nice indicator of Kryptonian society. On Earth, our armed forces tend to be compassionate people (who, ironically I guess, aspire to noble purposes like those of Superman himself, even if it gets muddled sometimes, and there's a few soldiers out there who don't fit that category). So you'd think Kryptonian military would be too, but these Zod loyalists might care about Kryptonians, but they definitely fit the "Sinestro rules of imposing order" a little bit. Maybe not as extremely embracing it like a Sinestro would, or being that ruthless, but they're definitely dedicated to Zod's vision. And they more than anyone epitomize the Kryptonians who aren't even willing to try being friendly with Earthlings (even if they're "behaving" like the Kandorians asked).

Speaking of Earth military who are the exception to the rule ... Luthor's uncanny ability to touch nerves doesn't fly well with Sam Lane. I like where they're going with Sam. While he's definitely filling a niche in this storyline as you know ... "Superhero hating General with conspiracy", every issue he's in his character is shored up more and I can only imagine what kind of characterization Johns will add to him once he's revealed as being behind Atlas, Doomsday, etc ...

Brainiac, on another note ... I think we all know that this looks like the beginning of a long and not-so-beautiful friendship between Brainiac and Luthor. Want to take odds on how it ends? Lex makes secret deal and stores Brainiac in computers, uses Brainiac to rebuild LexCorp, until next Brainiac crisis? Lex merges with Brainiac and gets addicted to it? Etc ... definitely mirrors the cartoon a little, although it looks like it's being handled ... "more realistically"?

No Codename: Assassin appearance this week. Must be he's off killing somebody.

Doomsday beat-down. I like Kal and Kara's reaction to the quick death of Doomsday, like "Wow ... we PROBABLY could've captured him alive?" but I even more-so like that Zor and Alura are very knowledgeable on the original project of Doomsday (being scientists) and their fast thinking ("it's best not to fight this guy alone" - great line, considering that Superman did, and Superman died) led to a pretty fast beatdown. Took him out fast. Doesn't look like they lost anybody. Agent Liberty got the POTUS out of there and biff, bam, pow, Kryptonians rule. Up, up, and away ... very nice. And I don't know if they know that Doomsday killed Superman, but Zor-El and Alura definitely looked to be taking out some aggression on him. It's phenomenal seeing Superman have a very protective aunt and uncle, who're like "don't f***ing mess with my brother's boy!" Even if they don't know the details, we get a really good idea of the family loyalty in Kryptonians, and it's pretty tight, even by human standards. (Which again, explains Zod Loyalists and their diehard loyalty to their own guild or house or whatever).

The statue of Conner tossed like a weapon ... talk of people making something personal ...

Lastly, Nightwing and Flamebird ... or uh, "Flamebird and Nightwing". Costumed heroes, with costumed superpowers! Don't tell me flamethrowing hands are natural Kryptonian ability!

But anyway, biggest of all, the tactile-telekinesis bit definitely overtly suggesting that the new Nightwing is Conner. I mean ... OUR Nightwing made a big point of suggesting that when Conner was attempting to destroy the Multiverse Machine in Infinite Crisis, and the idea that Conner takes the name Nightwing makes sense (more still if this takes place after R.I.P. and Nightwing takes the mantle of the Bat ... I'm remembering that Bruce was at Pa Kent's funeral, but was dark and shadowy and not in costume). Plus, this Nightwing straight-up LOOKS like Conner (although the costume does make him look like Dick Grayson).

Flamebird, I have no idea. A Kandorian wouldn't know anything about Conner, much less that he was dead and how he god-knows-how turned up alive. But some Earth heroes going incognito in Kandor as SUPER-SECRET backup for Superman using aliases that would be familiar to the Kandorians?

If Conner is the new Nightwing, who's Flamebird? I thought Wonder Girl until she called Nightwing "kid" ... this is a woman, not a girl.

But anyway, them showing up while Thara Ak-Var was doing security rounds in Metropolis definitely narrows down my theories on who Superwoman is going to be ...

[4thHorseman]

Nice beat-em-up issue. Although predictable, and a fast read, very enjoyable. Art did seemed rush, and I can't say it's his best. The idea that they claim Doomsday is dead, after giving so much backstory on him, made me wonder why they would even suggest such a thing though. The statue bit confused me though. Weren't these statues huge? In this book it looked like they were just 6 feet tall...Oh well. The Nightwing thing possibly being Conner...eh, maybe. But didn't Conner have to actually TOUCH something to use his TT?

[The Cool Thatguy]

He only tried once, which always bugged the hell out of me. At one point he even thinks to himself, "Doomsday leaps but doesn't fly. Long as I have him off the ground I have some advantage." The Kryptonians flying him off the planet here was like a sweet reward for all of us who wonder why Superman doesn't do that every time (aside from comic book contrivance in order to have big super-fights, I mean).

He tried in twice, actually. First time he caught and embedded Doomsday in mud, the second time Doomsday impaled Superman on a shoulder spike. The problem is that, ultimately, flight wasn't much of an advantage as Superman had to get within arm's length to actually do some damage.

[IvCNuB4]

I was wondering about the "tactile telekinesis" also. He gestures from a distance and "grabs" their weapons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that how Kon-El simulated super-strength; by touching large heavy objects to move them ? That is the definition of "tactile". That panel made no sense other than to get readers whipped up. I'll bet ya it's not really Kon-El. Probably just some Kandorian look-alike, or a long-lost El relative. The Silver Age had all kinds of look-alikes in that frickin' bottle ! :biggrin: The rest of the book is still a good read, though ....

[AdamYJ]

I figured the whole tactile telekinesis thing, other than getting fans whipped up, is that Johns is going to reveal that TTK is actually some long lost Kryptonian ability. When Johns was writing Kon-El, he seemed to want to pull him in closer to the center of the Superman mythos, in terms of origins and status quo. Hence why he had a lot of the trappings of Pre-Crisis Superboy, plus the Luthor DNA thing. Not my favorite tactic, but whatever.

It was still a pretty good read, though.

[DMike]

If Conner is the new Nightwing, who's Flamebird? I thought Wonder Girl until she called Nightwing "kid" ... this is a woman, not a girl.

Linda Danvers? Matrix?

[heffison]

Lastly, Nightwing and Flamebird ... or uh, "Flamebird and Nightwing". Costumed heroes, with costumed superpowers! Don't tell me flamethrowing hands are natural Kryptonian ability!

But anyway, biggest of all, the tactile-telekinesis bit definitely overtly suggesting that the new Nightwing is Conner. I mean ... OUR Nightwing made a big point of suggesting that when Conner was attempting to destroy the Multiverse Machine in Infinite Crisis, and the idea that Conner takes the name Nightwing makes sense (more still if this takes place after R.I.P. and Nightwing takes the mantle of the Bat ... I'm remembering that Bruce was at Pa Kent's funeral, but was dark and shadowy and not in costume). Plus, this Nightwing straight-up LOOKS like Conner (although the costume does make him look like Dick Grayson).

Flamebird, I have no idea. A Kandorian wouldn't know anything about Conner, much less that he was dead and how he god-knows-how turned up alive. But some Earth heroes going incognito in Kandor as SUPER-SECRET backup for Superman using aliases that would be familiar to the Kandorians?

If Conner is the new Nightwing, who's Flamebird? I thought Wonder Girl until she called Nightwing "kid" ... this is a woman, not a girl.

But anyway, them showing up while Thara Ak-Var was doing security rounds in Metropolis definitely narrows down my theories on who Superwoman is going to be ...

I don't know why, but I'm scared that somehow this new Nightwing might turn out to be...Chris Kent.

The only thing I want from DC is Conner back, and this would be a great way to do it, but I don't think that is what is happening. And it really hacks me off that they might give his tactile telekinesis to someone else (although I guess Match should have it, but that's understandable). Another kid with TT is not a replacement for Conner.

Other than that, who could these new heroes be? The names Flamebird and Nightwing (hmm, Flamewing and Nightbird sound kinda nice, too) are from Kryptonian history. At least Flamebird knows these two thugs by name, and Nightwing refers to Zod as a lunatic so there must be some history there. The thugs had earlier said that not everyone in Kandor saw Zod the same way they did. I'm thinking the new capes are a couple of Kandorians we may not even know yet, and the TT thing has been tossed out as something any Kryptonian could potentially have.

So, are these two really heroes, or just opponents of Zod?

[Binker]

By Nathaniel Ruff (also known as Binker, Binker2 and Nate on many forums)

ACTION COMICS #871

Written by Geoff Johns
Art by Pete Woods
Cover by Alex Ross
Variant cover by Stephane Roux
Edited by Matt Idelson

PLOT:
With thousands of Kryptonians being integrated into human society, the world believes they'll be watched over and protected across the globe. But not everyone was raised by Ma and Pa Kent. Meanwhile, the experiments on Brainiac continue as his mysterious captor builds an army against the Man of Steel and his people. Plus, who are the new Nightwing and Flamebird?

REVIEW:
"The Guardian" one-shot was better than the "Jimmy Olsen" one-shot. Whether or not you would consider these two one-shots much like Robinson's "Atlas" where the first part wasn't that much good, but then the next one(s) were improvements, is basically up in the air. I think these two were like that, and I'm going to stick by that. Now, with the one-shots done, time to resume with the Superman books. Now, we are on "Action Comics" #871, where we will face Doomsday, more on New Krypton and the world at large, and from the solicits, the new Nightwing and Flamebird. I typed this the week before it came out, and it seemed so far away for that issue of "Action" to be released. Now, not the case anymore! Here is "Action Comics" #871!

With the story moving forward once again, this issue brings in or focuses on four things: Lex Luthor's "job" to find any information from Brainiac, Superman, Supergirl and New Krypton vs. Doomsday, two Zod soldiers and their views on Earth/Superman/Zod, and their attempt inside the Fortress foiled by, and the introduction of, Nightwing and Flamebird. All that in this issue? And by Geoff Johns? A week's wait was all worth it. I think it is understandable that "Superman" is on...Superman, "Supergirl" on....well that is easy too, but "Action Comics" is where the main story progress partly, or ultimately, from the developments of the other titles.

On the focused things: Luthor's part was pretty straight forward, and he has no choice with Sam Lane in charge. The fight against Doomsday is with, specifically, Superman and Supergirl, followed by Kara's parents of Zor-El and Alura, and then followed by several other Kryptonians that help out in finishing up the fight on the moon. Okay, even that was straight forward. Now, since the preview, I wondered about the two Zod soldiers in this issue. First off, what Geoff talked about with something happening and the kryptonians are asked for help and they do nothing but leave, that happens here. Now, that could happen again on those who don't know why they are being asked, but it's here that the pled was toward these guys. Before reading the whole issue, I was wondering what these two would be doing. Clearly enough, and proved to be right, it was Zod-related, period. Lucky for many, their plan on freeing Zod from the Zone was foiled by Nightwing and Flamebird. Whom, by the way, we don't know yet. Who are they? Well, that is a wait and see!

So overall, "Action" #871 gives us the conclusion of the Superman/Supergirl/New Krypton vs. Doomsday fight from the previous issue of "Superman", and provides focuses on other things that will and have to be brought back and talked about as this story continues. Will those Zod soldiers, and will there be more who agree to, free Zod from the Zone? What will Luthor and Lane find from Brainiac and what IS their plan against Superman and New Krypton? And also, WHO IS THE NEW NIGHTWING AND FLAMEBIRD? It's an event, a Superman event, and it has been good so far.

RATING: Yay

Next Issue: "Supergirl" #35! Supergirl's life as Kryptonian-human relations are strained even further! The turmoil forces Supergirl to make a terrible decision: does she stand with the Kryptonians, the people she's longed to be reunited with, or with the humans, the race she's sworn to protect? On top of that, one of her greatest foes is reactivated with a burning hatred for anyone from Krypton – Rao help us all!

[CBikle]

Zod's loyalists were pretty reasonable, but are such hardcore devotees that they've already decided the world needs Zod. Their cold-blooded butts certainly do. Right away we get a nice indicator of Kryptonian society.

Yeah, with all the different factions like the House Of El, Zod's Loyalists, The Black Zero terrorists and whomever else it seems like Kandor still has the same politics that polarized Krypton.

Speaking of Earth military who are the exception to the rule ... Luthor's uncanny ability to touch nerves doesn't fly well with Sam Lane. I like where they're going with Sam. While he's definitely filling a niche in this storyline as you know ... "Superhero hating General with conspiracy", every issue he's in his character is shored up more and I can only imagine what kind of characterization Johns will add to him once he's revealed as being behind Atlas, Doomsday, etc

Yeah, I'm liking General "Thunderbolt" Lane. If he was the one who launched Doomsday into Metropolis, he was actually endangering the President and perhaps his daughter Lois as well. Kind of says something about the guy.

Brainiac, on another note ... I think we all know that this looks like the beginning of a long and not-so-beautiful friendship between Brainiac and Luthor. Want to take odds on how it ends? Lex makes secret deal and stores Brainiac in computers, uses Brainiac to rebuild LexCorp, until next Brainiac crisis? Lex merges with Brainiac and gets addicted to it? Etc ... definitely mirrors the cartoon a little, although it looks like it's being handled ... "more realistically"?

Historically, Luthor & Brainiac have teamed up a lot and it always seems to end up with Brainiac pulling a coup and taking their revenge plans in another direction.

I suspect that they'll at least work with each other to escape General Lane; I have this weird Defiant Ones -esque image in my head of Luthor & Brainiac chained together and running through the woods while General Lane and his soldiers pursue them. (or maybe closer to the Thing With Two Heads if Brainiac merges with Luthor again.).


If Conner is the new Nightwing, who's Flamebird? I thought Wonder Girl until she called Nightwing "kid" ... this is a woman, not a girl.


I think the new Flamebird and Nightwing are native to Kandor (they knew the names of those Zod loyalists and were expecting them) and I suspect they'd been busy in Kandor fighting local crime and terrorism in the city after the city was shrunken and stolen by Brainiac; I'm sure there was a period of absolute chaos and lawlessness in the city after this happened with Zod Loyalists or Black Zero types and others trying to usurp control.

[4thHorseman]

I don't know why, but I'm scared that somehow this new Nightwing might turn out to be...Chris Kent.

I would hope not. If it is, I hope they would explain HOW it's Chris Kent. He was sent to the Phantom Zone, not Kandor. So if he's Nightwing, they not only have to explain the jump in age, but how he went from the Phantom Zone to Kandor.

[Mat001]

Yeah, with all the different factions like the House Of El, Zod's Loyalists, The Black Zero terrorists and whomever else it seems like Kandor still has the same politics that polarized Krypton.

That's because it is still Krypton to them. Their home planet is gone, but their lives are the same as before. Makes sense and shows that this Kandor is definately not the united city from Pre-Crisis.

I would hope not. If it is, I hope they would explain HOW it's Chris Kent. He was sent to the Phantom Zone, not Kandor. So if he's Nightwing, they not only have to explain the jump in age, but how he went from the Phantom Zone to Kandor

Well, I'm betting there would've been a second Phantom Zone project in Kandor. One that was unknown to Zod's soldiers. As to his age jump, we know that the Zone doesn't affect Chris the same way it does other Kryptonians. Perhaps being in the Zone ages him rapidly the longer he is in there.

[Sean Walsh]

...didn't care for how Doomsday was treated.

Given that I was expecting him to kill a few Kryptonians before finally being taken down, I was kinda delighted to see him beaten to death (or thereabouts) on the moon.

[MythicBrawn]

Seeing all the Kryptonians take down Doomsday just shows me how Superman will become irrelevant. IMHO, most of the appeal of Superman is his uniqueness. The powers and his upbringing make him who he is. Lose one or the other and the character's appeal is gone. Now that all these other Kryptonians, with similar powers, are running around, he doesn't seem so great anymore.

Where's the thrill in a bunch of Kryptonians beating down Doomsday? Superman stopped him, but it cost him his life. Six, or however many, do it and it's like yawn, what did you expect to happen? Now DC can take this story in an interesting direction with humans fearing Kryptonians taking over and supplanting humanity. It would be similar to Marvel and mutants. Superman would be the Prof. Xavier trying to get his brethren to peacefully coexist with humanity. Some of his people would side with him whereas others would be why in the world should we coexist with inferior beings? And, all the while the public hates them all. DC will then have its own allegory for the prejudices that exist in the real world. Hey, Marvel has monopolized on it and made bundles of money.

[WorstThingUS]

Seeing all the Kryptonians take down Doomsday just shows me how Superman will become irrelevant. IMHO, most of the appeal of Superman is his uniqueness. The powers and his upbringing make him who he is. Lose one or the other and the character's appeal is gone. Now that all these other Kryptonians, with similar powers, are running around, he doesn't seem so great anymore.

I think it's a given the Kandorians worn't be hanging around. What remains to be seen is how they're removed.

DC will then have its own allegory for the prejudices that exist in the real world. Hey, Marvel has monopolized on it and made bundles of money.

Which is why I'm not reading X-Men. It has no place here.

[Spiffy]

Seeing all the Kryptonians take down Doomsday just shows me how Superman will become irrelevant. IMHO, most of the appeal of Superman is his uniqueness. The powers and his upbringing make him who he is. Lose one or the other and the character's appeal is gone. Now that all these other Kryptonians, with similar powers, are running around, he doesn't seem so great anymore.
The intent, I believe, is to deconstruct what makes Superman "Superman" to us.

The logic goes like this: "If all you see are the powers, then maybe you are missing the real point."

They could (and I believe have) chosen in the past to make the same point by removing his powers and have Clark have to operate without them, and yet still perform as a hero. This is simply a new approach to the same end. Remove what superficially makes him "special" to illustrate the actual heroic qualities. If a bunch of people just like him are running around... then what's the difference? Well, again, if that's not clear maybe as a reader you've never seen PAST those powers to all of those corny, and yet primal, lessons that Pa Kent taught him.

It is NO coincidence, ZERO, that this happens to Clark immediately after Pa's death (from a writing/storytelling perspective I mean).

[IvCNuB4]

I think it's a given the Kandorians worn't be hanging around. What remains to be seen is how they're removed.

Kandor's enlargement has been part of Legion lore since the 60s/Silver Age. Go to Wikipedia and search "Rokyn" .....

[Spiffy]

Kandor's enlargement has been part of Legion lore since the 60s/Silver Age. Go to Wikipedia and search "Rokyn" .....
Actually that article has been removed from Wikipedia it seems.

In trade, this should tell most people the basics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandor#Silver_Age_version

Off-topic: from IvCNuB4's sig line
"- Why can't fan-boys spell "rogue" correctly ?"
The one I've always wondered about is why approximately 50% of the people on the Internet spell "ridiculous" as "rediculous".

[Mat001]

Seeing all the Kryptonians take down Doomsday just shows me how Superman will become irrelevant. IMHO, most of the appeal of Superman is his uniqueness. The powers and his upbringing make him who he is. Lose one or the other and the character's appeal is gone. Now that all these other Kryptonians, with similar powers, are running around, he doesn't seem so great anymore.

That's what this story is about. Johns, Robinson and Gates have said that what makes Superman unique is not that he is the only one. It's because of who raised him and how he was raised. That is where Superman comes from. Which is why we saw a lot of the Kents over the last couple of years and why Jonathan's death comes at a crucial point in Clark's life. This issue with Gor and Mur and how they just fly off when they could save lives, and in the Special with the whale, serve as examples of why Superman is great. Why he is unique. Why he is who he is.

[Magneto Rocks]

I get what the writers are trying to do and trying to show... but I sitll don't like the idea and I'm hopeful the Kryptonians will be going away as soon as humanly possible. Because obviously the power set isn't the only thing that makes him unique but being the 'Last Son of Krypton' is a massive part of the Superman mythology (I'm actually opposed to even Krypto or Kara, though less so than to 100,000 Kryptonians) and I think getting rid of it gets rid of a significent chunk of Superman.

[Mat001]

I get what the writers are trying to do and trying to show... but I sitll don't like the idea and I'm hopeful the Kryptonians will be going away as soon as humanly possible. Because obviously the power set isn't the only thing that makes him unique but being the 'Last Son of Krypton' is a massive part of the Superman mythology (I'm actually opposed to even Krypto or Kara, though less so than to 100,000 Kryptonians) and I think getting rid of it gets rid of a significent chunk of Superman.

Superman stopped being the last son long ago. It was only important for a twenty year period, because DC thought that's what we wanted. Being the only survivor doesn't make him unique, anymore than it did for J'onn or for Kyle to be the last active Green Lantern. It's what the character brings to the table that matters most. For much of Superman's 70 year history, he has not been the last one. He's had Kara, Krypto, the Phantom Zoners and Kandor. They all became an important part of who Superman is. All DC is doing embracing their history, rather than treating it like the plague.

Besides, as it has been mentioned, this story will go on for quite a while. Well into 2010.

[mosdef]

The intent, I believe, is to deconstruct what makes Superman "Superman" to us.

The logic goes like this: "If all you see are the powers, then maybe you are missing the real point."

They could (and I believe have) chosen in the past to make the same point by removing his powers and have Clark have to operate without them, and yet still perform as a hero. This is simply a new approach to the same end. Remove what superficially makes him "special" to illustrate the actual heroic qualities. If a bunch of people just like him are running around... then what's the difference? Well, again, if that's not clear maybe as a reader you've never seen PAST those powers to all of those corny, and yet primal, lessons that Pa Kent taught him.

It is NO coincidence, ZERO, that this happens to Clark immediately after Pa's death (from a writing/storytelling perspective I mean).

Do you know which stories this has happened? I'd like to read those.

[Magneto Rocks]

Superman stopped being the last son long ago. It was only important for a twenty year period, because DC thought that's what we wanted.

And that *is* what some of us wanted!

Being the only survivor doesn't make him unique, anymore than it did for J'onn or for Kyle to be the last active Green Lantern. It's what the character brings to the table that matters most.

While I agree that's what matters most, I'd argue Superman did it before J'onn or Kyle and did it better, asnd it's a big part of what he brings to the table. It's all about different eras of Superman, really- I don't think it would be shocking to learn I'm a massive 'Man of Steel' era fan myself, whereas Johns and others- including you?- clearly prefer pre-Crisis. Different strokes.... :)

For much of Superman's 70 year history, he has not been the last one. He's had Kara, Krypto, the Phantom Zoners and Kandor. They all became an important part of who Superman is.

And again, I prefer there being no Kara or Krypto, Kandor scarcely counted as it was shrunk and the Phantom Zoners were easy to discount because, well, they were in the Phantom Zone.

All DC is doing embracing their history, rather than treating it like the plague.

Personally, I'd argue that there's a balance between 'treating it like the plague' and 'focusing on doing homage after homage' which Superman hasn't quite managed to find in recent years. Now again, I'm enjoying 'New Krypton' and there's great writing on display, but I'm not sure it's the Superman I know and love- the one that Byrne redefined.

[CBikle]

Now again, I'm enjoying 'New Krypton' and there's great writing on display, but I'm not sure it's the Superman I know and love- the one that Byrne redefined.

And good riddance to the Byrne Superman.

At the time, a lot of Superman fans felt disenfranchised from Byrne's Superman which dismantled his entire history as Superboy, The Legion Of Super Heroes, Krypto, etc. and did so in a very dismissive way.

Byrne's vision of Superman had it's good points, but it was too narrow-minded and too reclusive of the rest of the DCU.

[MythicBrawn]

You're blaming Byrne for doing what DC wanted at the time. CoIE had just happened and the mandate was to eliminate all the extraneous super-elements. No super-pets, Supergirl, excessive super abilities, different versions of kryptonite, etc. I thought Byrne did an excellent job and I still prefer the post-CoIE Superman. Eliminate the pain-in-the-rear that was Lois Lane and it would have been perfect. Lay the blame at DC's feet not at Byrne's for doing the job he was contracted to do. But, then it's all irrevalent anyway since DC is bringing all that extraneous stuff back. I can't wait until super-ventriloquism rears its ugly head.

[Pixie_Solanas]

It looked a little rushed, but it was still pretty good. I'd love seeing Pete Woods do more Superman stories. Or hell, more DC work in general.

So... "tactile telekinesis," eh? How about that?

Yeah, I know and love Pete Woods' art (his Catwoman run was superlative), but this just wasn't in the same league. Different inker maybe?

I know Woods is also doing the Cybernary backup stories in Wildstorm right now and that's more along the lines of traditional Pete Woods art (i.e. really good).

Anyway, i'm nitpicking - i'm just happy to see him on a top-level gig.

[heffison]

Besides, as it has been mentioned, this story will go on for quite a while. Well into 2010.

New Krypton isn't supposed to last that long, it is the ramifications of it that are plotted through 2010. Which means the Kandorians could be gone (dead, off-planet, re-shrunk), or not, by that time.

But should we assume they are not active on Earth during Final Crisis? Seems they aren't, anyway.

[Mat001]

And that *is* what some of us wanted!

And others wanted those things back. Not just those at DC, but those who had been fans when those things were around. DC can never truly please all of their readers, regardless of who is in charge.

While I agree that's what matters most, I'd argue Superman did it before J'onn or Kyle and did it better, asnd it's a big part of what he brings to the table.

How is that Clark did it better, being the last of his kind? The man didn't even know that he was for years. And by the time he did, he only had a couple of years before the survivors started showing up.

It's all about different eras of Superman, really- I don't think it would be shocking to learn I'm a massive 'Man of Steel' era fan myself, whereas Johns and others- including you?- clearly prefer pre-Crisis. Different strokes.... :)

Well, hang on a second. I'm a fan of the MOS origin, myself. But just as it has been done before, I enjoy when those older elements are re-introduced and are explored in a different manner. "New Krypton" right now makes more sense than the original conclusion of the Kandor storyline did, back in the 70's. I enjoy that there are Phantom Zoners to match wits with Clark. It's all about execution.

And again, I prefer there being no Kara or Krypto, Kandor scarcely counted as it was shrunk and the Phantom Zoners were easy to discount because, well, they were in the Phantom Zone.

But the people of Kandor came out from time to time, like Van-Ze. And we had the adventures of Nightwing and Flamebird in Kandor, during the Silver Age. The Phantom Zoners appeared quite regularly. Krypto mostly appeared in Superboy and Imaginary Stories set in the present. That left Kara who was there the most and gave him a sense of family that was the foundation of his life.

Personally, I'd argue that there's a balance between 'treating it like the plague' and 'focusing on doing homage after homage' which Superman hasn't quite managed to find in recent years. Now again, I'm enjoying 'New Krypton' and there's great writing on display, but I'm not sure it's the Superman I know and love- the one that Byrne redefined.

Save for a few details here and there, much of what Byrne put in is there. Alongside what Waid put in, with his story. Along with Siegel, Shuster, Weisenger (sp), Boring, Swan, Maggin, Bates, Pasko, Jurgens, Wolfman, Ordway, Simonson, Stern, Michellene, Loeb, Kelly, Rucka, Simone and Kessel.

Yeah, I know and love Pete Woods' art (his Catwoman run was superlative), but this just wasn't in the same league. Different inker maybe?

I dunno. Most of it is pretty good, but I'm not a fan of his Doomsday. The bonespurs just didn't look right.

New Krypton isn't supposed to last that long, it is the ramifications of it that are plotted through 2010. Which means the Kandorians could be gone (dead, off-planet, re-shrunk), or not, by that time.

That's what I meant.

But should we assume they are not active on Earth during Final Crisis? Seems they aren't, anyway.

Who says that they aren't and are not under the control of the Anti-Life Equation? It can affect Kryptonians as well as any other life form.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

Do you know which stories this has happened? I'd like to read those.

The most recent would be Busiek and Johns' excellent Up Up and Away (http://www.amazon.com/Superman-Away-One-Year-Later/dp/1401209548/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226936268&sr=1-2). This followed Infinite Crisis, where Superman lost his powers.

[WorstThingUS]

Who says that they aren't and are not under the control of the Anti-Life Equation?

Probably because the last time Darkseid had a bunch of Superman level people under his control, he made them carve a planet into his image. (though technically that happens in the future, so he actually has yet to do it). But I'm fine not trying to "fit" Final Crisis into this. I'm a continuity cop, but this happens after FC in my mind, because we've seen Pa Kent in it.

[Ghost Shark]

I can't wait until super-ventriloquism rears its ugly head.

As a kid, I so wanted super-ventriloquism! it would've been fun getting other people in trouble by speaking for them. :biggrin:

[Mat001]

Probably because the last time Darkseid had a bunch of Superman level people under his control, he made them carve a planet into his image. (though technically that happens in the future, so he actually has yet to do it). But I'm fine not trying to "fit" Final Crisis into this. I'm a continuity cop, but this happens after FC in my mind, because we've seen Pa Kent in it.

Except Batman couldn't be swinging around Gotham with his sons, because he was a prisoner of Darkseid. Not to mention that Wonder Woman was stuck in Bludhaven. "Last Will & Testament" is full of contradictions with the main series. The only thing that counts is the Geo Force vs Deathstroke storyline.

[Devil_LeonX]

I been wanting to pick up the issue but havent had much time....would anyone have any scans of this royal A^%$ kicking?

[WorstThingUS]

I been wanting to pick up the issue but havent had much time....would anyone have any scans of this royal A^%$ kicking?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/SRxJBw4YFUI/AAAAAAAAIyY/AAwlDjSt4Ko/s1600-h/Action+Comics+871-5.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/SRxJUNUbtcI/AAAAAAAAIyg/MZK_lUhtX1k/s1600-h/Action+Comics+871-6.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/SRxIfupaHpI/AAAAAAAAIyA/1-saqE0tV-E/s1600-h/Action+Comics+871-7.jpg

[Devil_LeonX]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/SRxJBw4YFUI/AAAAAAAAIyY/AAwlDjSt4Ko/s1600-h/Action+Comics+871-5.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/SRxJUNUbtcI/AAAAAAAAIyg/MZK_lUhtX1k/s1600-h/Action+Comics+871-6.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/SRxIfupaHpI/AAAAAAAAIyA/1-saqE0tV-E/s1600-h/Action+Comics+871-7.jpg

Thanks alot!!