Who is the Black Glove?

[TimothyCallahan]

In this week's "When Words Collide" I give you the leading suspects, but I ask you: Who is the Black Glove and how do you know?

[A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.]

I've said the Joker all the way, so why stop now. The logic would be that he and Batman exist as a sort of yin/yang order/chaos (or the other way around?) and that as Batman loses his grip on reality, The Joker goes the other way and becomes a strategic mastermind able to carefully plot the demise of Batman. Even though . . . that would mean it somehow works retroactively. Hm.

That or the whole Joker-as-avatar-of-Desaad-thing that's been suggested.

[Jared H.]

Joe Chill, Joe Chill, Joe Chill.

In the flashback issue of Morrison's run involving Chill, there are a lot of hints there. For one, he refers to himself as the King of Crime, a title that the Black Glove currently uses. He also talks about why he spared Wayne: because of his own lost son(there has been some speculation that the Joker is Chill's kid, but there's little evidence for this). We also see that by the end of the comic, Chill knows who Batman's secret identity is. This is a good reason for why the glove has Dr Hurt dress up as Thomas Wayne, especially since Chill himself suffered terrifying mind games at the hands of Batman. And IIRC, the flashback they showed to Wayne's parents getting killed showed Chill wearing black gloves when firing the gun.

Furthermore, we know that Dr Hurt created the imposter Batman with tragedy, and that Hurt is working for the Glove. Hurt insists he knew of this from the isolation study, but what if somebody else told him how Batman was made?

Then, of course, there is the metatextual evidence:

1) Infinite Crisis specifically brings Chill back into continuity. Why? So he can feature in a single issue exploring Batman's early years? Of course not. There's a larger reason for this. An important one.

2) In keeping with the #1 rule of character deaths in comics, we never see Chill's body. All we see is Batman looking on at a gunshot noise.

My hunch? Joe Chill as we knew him DID die, and Black Glove was born. Chill, a king of crime in Gotham before Batman, realized that he had to change the way he did things, or die. So, much in the way Batman's terrorising of him forced broke him mentally and spiritually, he has dedicated his life to doing the same to Batman.

[TimothyCallahan]

I should have included Joe Chill on the list of suspects -- he was on my original list -- but after reading all of the Morrison issues back to back, his single appearance seemed so slight that it seems unlikely that he's actually the Black Glove. Could he be alive and involved in the Black Glove conspiracy? Sure. But I doubt he's the Glove himself. It is a possibility, though.

I'd place my unscientific odds at 35 to 1.

[Jared H.]

I should have included Joe Chill on the list of suspects -- he was on my original list -- but after reading all of the Morrison issues back to back, his single appearance seemed so slight that it seems unlikely that he's actually the Black Glove. Could he be alive and involved in the Black Glove conspiracy? Sure. But I doubt he's the Glove himself. It is a possibility, though.

I'd place my unscientific odds at 35 to 1.

And yet Robin is somehow a more logical choice? Really?

[TimothyCallahan]

No Robin's not a more logical choice. Not at all. But he's been named as a possible suspect by more than one internet commentator. Joe Chill has better odds, definitely. I still think Chill would be an out-of-nowhere choice for the reveal, though.

[Jared H.]

No Robin's not a more logical choice. Not at all. But he's been named as a possible suspect by more than one internet commentator. Joe Chill has better odds, definitely. I still think Chill would be an out-of-nowhere choice for the reveal, though.

So according to your list, Joker is the most likely choice? So that would make Hurt Joker's lackey, right? Why would Joker have a lackey create a fake Batman to shoot him in the head? Why would he have even tried to kill the fake Batman in the first place, when leaving him to wreak havoc would have caused so much fun if Joker knew who he was?

[Zombie Superman]

Damn, son.

I think you're right.

And how about the fact that Morrison said The Black Glove will be "someone everyone in the world knows" or something to that effect.

Everyone knows how The Batman was born, even if they don't know the guy's name.

Excellent job deducing this one. I think it's really the ONLY way to go. Joker, Alfred, Thomas Wayne, etc., would be diminished by being The Black Glove, including the overall Bat-mythos.

But if it's Chill, then it adds new layers to an already rich mythology.

And that's one of Morrison's gifts.

Z\S/

[Jared H.]

I do take somethign back, though...

I could have sworn Joe Chill referred to himself as the King of Crime in "Joe Chill in Hell." Looking back over it, I cannot find where I saw that. I seem to have been mistaken.

[hondobrode]

I actually gasped out loud reading this article and the excellent replies. I've been out of touch with current comics for the last couple of years as I prepare to sell most of my collection and pay down some bills but I still follow CBR and 'Rama daily. I can't wait to read all of this later !

I agree from what I've read it's probably Chill. That makes the whole thing so rich and awesome !!

[BoSoxJay]

I am hard pressed to not believe it's Darkseid.

He too wears "black gloves".

We have Mokarri and Simmyan presiding over Dan Turpin in "Final Crisis #4" and we are told that before an evil New God can assume a host body a precursor to that must happen: "The runination of a noble human spirit". Pretty much the same motivation Dr. Hurt cites for going after Batman.

We have this whole Black Glove plot going back to Batman's earliest days. In Final Crisis we have Darkseid "falling backwards through time".

Zurr En Arr is a refernce to an early case of Batman dealing with aliens. The Gods of Apokolips are aliens. The phrase Zurr en Arr triggers an involutary response in Batman. Much like the ALE does in Earth's populace. My guess is that Zurr en Arr is the ANti-Life Equation but Batman had a backup personality in place that negated the ALE from taking hold and thus blocked Darkseid's attempt at taking over Bruce's body so he had to turn to Turpin.

Other anecdotal ties that lead me to think this theory is true is thattMorrison is writing both.

There is a an old 4th worl character who is a red headed female fury named Jezebel.

The final fate of Batman will be seen in Final Crisis.

Bludhaven, which is essentially Gotham's neighbor and Nightwing's former protectorate, was specifically chosen by Darkseid to be ground zero of the ALE invasion.

As alluded to in #666 and throughout Morrison's run Darkseid fits the bill for the devil references. He is basically referred to throughout Final Crisis as the "God of Evil".

And, personally, as readers, we have seen Batman triumph over everything from White Martians, an Arkham Breakout, a Broken back, Earthquakes, plague, Lex Luthor and a posion Ivy Kryptonite controlled Superman so anything less than a Darkseid level character finaly being the thing to break bruce Wayne would totally be unacceptable.

[FBI Man]

I've only read the 'Black Glove' arc, and the 'RIP' arc so my guess is worse than others. But I think the Black Glove is going to be Bruce Wayne. My first piece of evidence is the line in ‘Black Glove’ where Bruce says he “wants to know what men who have everything do in their spare time.” He was referring to John Mayhew, but I also think Morrison directed it at Bruce Wayne. My only other piece of evidence comes from the first Batman comic I read. It was this little black and white graphic novel that I believe was written by Denny O’Neil and I can’t remember the artist. But anyway, it dealt with a hidden foe who was tormenting Batman. This foe knew detailed information from Batman’s life and dressed up in his father’s Bat costume (his father wore it to a Halloween ball. This is the same costume that Dr. Hurt is wearing in RIP.) Throughout the story we are led to believe that the villain is Thomas Wayne. However, the revelation in that series was that the villain was Bruce Wayne pretending he was his father. He had suffered some head injury in an explosion which somehow caused him to create an imaginary villain that waged war against Batman. Eventually Robin (Dick Grayson I believe) convinced him what was going on, and saved Batman. Since Batman has created a personality to war against himself in the past it seems like he could be doing so again.

[chrisgiff]

this was a great article and made me want to get out all the Morrison issues and read them again.

this thread has some really interesting theories. if it turns out to be Thomas Wayne, i really hope it is an "in Bruce's head" type thing like in the Denny O'Neill story mentioned above.

honestly, the Joker is obvious, but i wouldn't be upset because their feud is so classic at this point.

I guess I don't know enough about Joe Chill, other than he killed the Waynes. Can someone fill me in on issues/story arcs to read? Did he survive for a while and learn Batman's identity?

[Steve Price]

Apart from the characters' spoken assumptions, does it specifically say anywhere that the Black Glove is only one person? I only recall the Black Glove referring to itself as the "Black Glove", not "I", or "he". Maybe it's an organization.

What if the Black Glove is not one person but six? A palm with 5 manipulated fingers.

The Palm: The Monk This red-robed fiend with "the powers of Satan" hypnotically enslaved Gotham's elite until he was killed by the nascent Batman in the early issues of Detective Comics. The Monk satisfies Morrison's demonic allusions and suggestion that the villain has been around since the Batman's early days, and complements the Black Glove's stated preference for moving among Gotham's High Society.

The Fingers: Through Jezebel, Morrison asks who could possibly hate the Batman more than the young Bruce Wayne, whose childhood was sacrificed to the Batman's cause. Given Alfred's earlier recitation of Bruce Wayne's romantic resume, and that Wayne seems to specialize in women with means, motive and opportunity, I'm going with the "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" angle.

1. Jezebel Jet: For reasons that have now become obvious.

2. Raven-haired Gotham socialite Julie Madison: Bruce Wayne's
fiancee was one of the Monk's first thralls. She appeared almost exclusively
in red.

3. Vicky Vale: Alfred suggests that she knows about the goings on
beneath Wayne Manor. She appears, briefly, in R.I.P. as a redheaded TV
personality, obviously still carrying a torch for Wayne.

4. Silver St. Cloud: No red or black, here. Another Gotham It-girl who lost
Bruce Wayne to the Dark Knight. She, too, knows his secret.

5.Julia Pennyworth: Talk about having an axe to grind. If she still exists in
current continuity, Alfred's daughter lost her old man's attention to the
Wayne whelp, and Wayne's attention to the Batman. (I would consider Talia as an alternate, but she almost seems too obvious...)

I'm just spitballin' here. I look forward to the conclusion.

[ibnalxuffasch]

Steve, Morrison has said in interviews that there is an organization and then there is the Black Glove.

"At the bottom you have the Club of Villains who are working with the Black Glove. Then you have the Black Glove organization, which is a group of very wealthy people who we meet in the upcoming issue. And then above that you have the identity of the Black Glove, who is a person."

http://comics.ign.com/articles/876/876418p3.html

[Steve Price]

Thanks, ibnalxuffasch!

[rev sully]

In DC UNIVERSE #0,
The Dead Man's Hand...Red & Black...

my thought is this.

What if Elliot was Tommy's middle name? What if Hush was really Bruce Wayne's little brother?
Funnybooks only need a good story to explain & iron out wrinkles. The Boomerrang Killer would have to be proven a Red Herring to keep his real son hidden...
Wouldn't be funny if Hush ended up being the next Batman?

[Teatime Brutality]

What's the Morrison run been about?

It's been The Adventures of Bat-Meme.

The Joker, in both the scenes where he's confronted Batman about the shot-in-the-face incident, has appered simply not to understand that it wasn't 'our' Batman holding the gun. To the Joker it's totally immaterial who 'the Batman' meme-cluster was riding at the time. Batman shot him. It doesn't matter who was under the mask, because (as he says in Arkham Asylum) the mask is the real face as far as he's concerned.

Every single story's been about what happens when other people pick up bits of the identity Bruce created and try to run with it. The 'Three Ghosts of Batman' - The insane cop Batman, the Bane-Batman, and the Antichrist Batman. FutureDamienBatman. The Batmen of All Nations - The Musketeer, Man-Of-Bats, The Gaucho, The Knight, The Legionary, Dark Ranger, Wingman. Batmite. The Batman of Zur-En-Arrh.

Like the Antichrist Batman said, the replacements are circling like vultures. But who was there first? Who was the first to decide to take on the Bat-identity and stand as a rival to Bruce?

You've got to hide things in plain sight to pull off mystery writing. You've got to make the readers aware of the important detail without giving them any reason to connect it to the parts of the story that they think are important.

There's one character who gets a just such a "stands out but doesn't feel significant" reference in both Morrison's first Batman issue and early on in RIP itself. We all noticed her there, because we were all interested to see that she was still in continuity, but we had no reason to connect her to current events.

The "Thomas Wayne is secretly still alive!" tease is obviously a misdirection...but what if it's there to do more than drive fanboys nuts and generate hype? What if it's there to prep us for the idea that someone else we thought dead is still alive.

Kathy Kane The Elder.

The First Batwoman. The first Bat-anyone other than Bruce.

Two of the big questions of the extended storyline is how much responsibility should Bruce take for the actions of all the Also-Batmen and how much control he should try to exert over them.
Is he responsible for another Batman shooting someone?
Should he slap down the Club of Heroes?

That was what the dynamic between him an Kathy was all about too - responsibility and control - him always trying to persuade her to abandon the Batwoman persona, even going so far as to blackmail her with the prospect of him exposing her secret identity.

If she was infatuated with Batman to the extent that she was the first to fashion herself into a rival Batperson...then what could she do once that road was closed to her?

Find a different way to be his rival.

[heffison]

In this week's "When Words Collide" I give you the leading suspects, but I ask you: Who is the Black Glove and how do you know?

So Dick Grayson was never in the running? I don't want him to go bad, or even go wrong with a good reason, but considering DiDio's "affection" for the character, I think he'd be up for tossing him into the Villian Bin. Tim's jealousy of Damien might be matched by Dick's jealousy of Tim.

I'd prefer this to be something Bruce himself cooked up, because only he should be able to outsmart himself this way, but that would not be the ultimate betrayal that this is supposed to be. I believe both DiDio and Morrison have mentioned the "shocking betrayal" aspect as critical to the identity of the Black Glove. That, facts aside, is what would make Grayson the best candidate.

Someone's blog did suggest Aunt Harriet. That may be more of a "shaking with laughter" betrayal, but who would know more about Bruce's folks, other than Alfred?

[heffison]

There is one thing about this arc that drives me nuts, and is not a story problem, but a result of my own perspective.

Every time anyone talks about red and black, I can't stop thinking of the scene in 52, I think, where Jimmy asks Robin why he changed his costume. To, of course, red and black. "They were his colors," Tim says, meaning Conner Kent.

It's odd to see that color combo be the key here when it had such a non-Bat-related meaning to Tim. Or...is Conner...is that why it isn't "the Black Gloves" ?

Of course not, but it makes me smile at R.I.P. in a way I really shouldn't.

[stealthwise]

In DC UNIVERSE #0,
The Dead Man's Hand...Red & Black...

my thought is this.

What if Elliot was Tommy's middle name? What if Hush was really Bruce Wayne's little brother?
Funnybooks only need a good story to explain & iron out wrinkles. The Boomerrang Killer would have to be proven a Red Herring to keep his real son hidden...
Wouldn't be funny if Hush ended up being the next Batman?

Nope to the first couple. Read Detective Comics #850.

[Judd]

My money's still on Alfred. Kind of. I think Alfred's actually the real Thomas Wayne, and that Hurt was the original Alfred. I'm not sure how this works exactly, but I'm sure there was some mind-wipin' going on or something.

IF Alfred does prove to be the real Thomas Wayne (or at least Bruce's biological father), he could still exist in the Bat-universe post-R.I.P. Also, with a biological parent suddenly still alive, Bruce would lose his motive for being Batman and be inclined to pass the cowl on to someone else (granted, there is still the murder of Martha, but that could just be a minor detail at this point).

I like the Joe Chill theories, although I have to agree that I don't really see him as the Black Glove. I'm more interested in his mention of a son. Has the son of Chill ever shown up anywhere in the DCU?

Also, if we're giving long odds to Ra's Al Ghul and Robin, why not throw Morrison himself into the list of suspects? Who knows more about the inner workings of Batman at this point than the writer himself? He could be pulling an Animal Man ending. As you've said previously, Tim, Morrison has a tendency to retell his tales. I could see a 4th wall moment happening here. 60-to-1 odds, but still a possibility.


(I posted this on your blog as well, but figured I'd spread my genius around a little. Apologies if anyone read it twice.)

[flapjaxx]

I've been down with the Chill explanation for a while. Actually, he'd been my pick ever since we first learned of this whole big mystery in 674. He may not turn out to be the Black Glove, but all that would mean is that us Joe Chill supporters understand the Bat-mythos better than Grant Morrison does. :tongue: Chill is the BEST answer. :wink:


And how about the fact that Morrison said The Black Glove will be "someone everyone in the world knows" or something to that effect.

Everyone knows how The Batman was born, even if they don't know the guy's name.

I've been thinking that same sort of logic to fulfill the "everyone knows him" stipulation as well.


I do take somethign back, though...

I could have sworn Joe Chill referred to himself as the King of Crime in "Joe Chill in Hell." Looking back over it, I cannot find where I saw that. I seem to have been mistaken.

I'm not sure why something from 10 months ago is a spoiler, but he did say he worked himself up to "the top of the food chain".

Oh, also in 673 Chill talks about how a "grudge can last forever": Batman has had a grudge against Chill, and now the Black Glove has a grudge against Bruce.

Also check out how Chill is playing with cards and how he makes a gun with his hand and points it at Batman (in disguise as a henchman). These seem like foreshadowings of how the Joker in DC Universe #0 is 1) playing with cards, and 2) how he makes a gun with his hands and mimes suicide by gunshot, which is what Batman intended to force Chill to commit.

The Chill incident also plays off of how the false Batman of issue 655 shot the Joker. Ever since then (in issues 663 and 680 specifically) the Joker (who should know by now that that wasn't the REAL Batman who did it) has been taunting and accusing Batman of shooting him. Batman's retorts to this are along the lines of "No! I don't use a gun! I don't kill!" But he did hand a gun to Joe Chill with the intent of bringing about his death--which was a total Morrison retcon, it should be noted.

Joe Chill Jr as a mystery villain has already been done in Batman: Full Circle.

[Steve Price]

I like your Kathy Kane theory, Teatime. Just had a thought: With all the repetition of the Black and Red motif; is it possible that there is an as yet unseen RED glove to match the Black Glove? I only mention this because Harley has both, as well as a background in abnormal psych. And where is Hugo Strange in all of this?

[Jared H.]

I've been down with the Chill explanation for a while. Actually, he'd been my pick ever since we first learned of this whole big mystery in 674. He may not turn out to be the Black Glove, but all that would mean is that us Joe Chill supporters understand the Bat-mythos better than Grant Morrison does. :tongue: Chill is the BEST answer. :wink:



I've been thinking that same sort of logic to fulfill the "everyone knows him" stipulation as well.



I'm not sure why something from 10 months ago is a spoiler, but he did say he worked himself up to "the top of the food chain".

Oh, also in 673 Chill talks about how a "grudge can last forever": Batman has had a grudge against Chill, and now the Black Glove has a grudge against Bruce.

Also check out how Chill is playing with cards and how he makes a gun with his hand and points it at Batman (in disguise as a henchman). These seem like foreshadowings of how the Joker in DC Universe #0 is 1) playing with cards, and 2) how he makes a gun with his hands and mimes suicide by gunshot, which is what Batman intended to force Chill to commit.

The Chill incident also plays off of how the false Batman of issue 655 shot the Joker. Ever since then (in issues 663 and 680 specifically) the Joker (who should know by now that that wasn't the REAL Batman who did it) has been taunting and accusing Batman of shooting him. Batman's retorts to this are along the lines of "No! I don't use a gun! I don't kill!" But he did hand a gun to Joe Chill with the intent of bringing about his death--which was a total Morrison retcon, it should be noted.

Joe Chill Jr as a mystery villain has already been done in Batman: Full Circle.


Excellent points, flapjaxx. The scene with Joker miming shooting himself in the head when Chill seems to have done the same is incredibly compelling evidence.

[rev sully]

Nope to the first couple. Read Detective Comics #850.

I just read Det. #850 twice...I don't not see it. Hmmmmm...oh well. Am I missing something? I still think mine's cool. But I've been wrong before and I know I'll be wrong again...
I could say Jason Todd as well...red & black, Red Hood but neither Hush nor Todd has been used by Morrison in his run. Of course to make this fun, I'm gonna go back and read the whole bloody thing. I did notice the Zur-En-Arrh graffiti in the opening pages of Batman #655...
It wouldn't surprise me much if Morrison made a Bat-Villain named the "Red Herring" but iDigress...that name kinda stinks as well. Get it? Awww!!!

Come to: Channel OCHO (http://thechannelocho.blogspot.com/search/label/Comics%20Gnome)

[rev sully]

I like your Kathy Kane theory, Teatime. Just had a thought: With all the repetition of the Black and Red motif; is it possible that there is an as yet unseen RED glove to match the Black Glove? I only mention this because Harley has both, as well as a background in abnormal psych. And where is Hugo Strange in all of this?

I do love the Kathy Kane the Elder angle too...can you imagine a chagrined ex-flame, left stranded on the shores of the Crises...an old woman grasping for life, longing for youth, looking at an eternally 30-something Bruce Wayne. His youth has nothing to do with fortune & wealth...but mission, mythos, who he is!
Grant is the De Jure historian of the DC multiverse...something like this is very up his alley.
Is Jezebel her daughter? Literally the Black Hand...in BATMAN #656, Jezebel Jet was obviously ethnically African and runs a country there (and she did say, "Don't worry...I know where you LIVE" #656).
I'm totally re-reading from #655 as if the whole Morrison run was BATMAN R.I.P...which it eventually is if you're familiar with his body of work.

[heffison]

I like your Kathy Kane theory, Teatime. Just had a thought: With all the repetition of the Black and Red motif; is it possible that there is an as yet unseen RED glove to match the Black Glove?

I like that. It would fit since read and black seem to be such a pair. If not a glove, is there a red something else in Batman's history that could fit in here? Red Shoe? Red Hand? What else might be associated with a glove?

[Teatime Brutality]

I'm totally re-reading from #655 as if the whole Morrison run was BATMAN R.I.P...which it eventually is if you're familiar with his body of work.

It absolutely is, isn't it? I think DC do the story no favours by marketing as a discrete six-issue arc with its own deluxe hardcover. Bat-fandom's so used to the important stories being 'lift right out' things like Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum and Year One that a lot of people seem to be having trouble getting their head around the idea of a significant and meaningful story being told over an extended run in the monthly. Thier comprehension will not be aided by DC branding and marketing this as if Batman #676-681 represents a complete storyline. It's a little like pretending that the Dark Phoenix saga is just the bits on the moon at the end.

And as Tim says, those scenes in 52 are quite important too (He's got the details all wrong though, muddling up the two different rituals we see Bruce go through in the series. The 'Batman-ectomy' sequence doesn't take place in Nanda Parbat, but in the Empty Quarter of the Ten-Eyed Men. The Thogal ritual in Nanda Parbat takes place much later and appears to see the Batman persona reconstructed, as Bruce emerges from the cave with a Bat-shadow)

Oh, and thanks everyone who likes my Kathy Kane theory! Though it's one for the 'pleasing' box rather than the 'plausible' box, I fear.

[rev sully]

It absolutely is, isn't it? I think DC do the story no favours by marketing as a discrete six-issue arc with its own deluxe hardcover. Thier comprehension will not be aided by DC branding and marketing this as if Batman #676-681 represents a complete storyline. It's a little like pretending that the Dark Phoenix saga is just the bits on the moon at the end.

Totally! Just look at Grant's 4-year run on New X-Men...the '90's left me out of collecting funnybooks! Grant's X-Men (and Winick's Green Lantern) in 2001 got me back in...
but Sublime was this UberBad weaved throughout the entire Morrison run of New X-Men (besides the excellence of Casandra Nova and the true Magneto on "kick"...but iDigress...retcon my foot!!!). Read "E Is For Extinction" through "Here Comes Tomorrow" and you'll behold an incredible tapestry.
As Bruce Wayne said to Jezebel Jet regarding the Spilling Paint Pop Art Piece in London (BATMAN #656), "...there's a MESSAGE here somewhere...I know if I just stare HARD enough..."
For the unscientific 2-to1 odds the Black Glove is the Joker there is the "Population Explosion" pop art piece that have clowns in pieces...ehhh? Anyone?
Although Tim Drake...after the completely unrelated "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" and tragedy as motif forming the superhero/villain...
We all saw BATMAN #676's first page where the full-page shows RED SKIES and the Dynamic Duo with Batman saying, "You're WRONG!...Batman and Robin will NEVER DIE!"...turn the page and the narrative caption shows us "Six Months Earlier..." to the "current" events of R.I.P. and we're established in very linear timeline. After my re-read of BATMAN #655-680...and anticipating the forthcoming BATMAN #681 and FINAL CRISIS #5...my instinct is that the next Dynamic Duo is Dick & Damien.

[rev sully]

I should have done more detective work...
Tim Callahan said the SAME thing back in May '08 re: Batman #676 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=user_review&id=121)
"Batman" #676 opens with a splash page of Batman and Robin, six months in the future, crouching on a Gotham rooftop, lightning striking behind them, as Batman declares, "You're wrong! Batman and Robin will never die!" My guess is that the Batman on the first page is Dick Grayson and the Robin is Damian, Bruce Wayne's recently-revealed son. The masked characters on that page could be Bruce Wayne and Tim Drake, though, and maybe this "Batman R.I.P." thing will end with the status quo being restored after all. But that's the fun of this arc, we feel as if anything could happen --"

Damian's 13 years old...this Robin looks smaller, younger. The Red Skies illuminate the coloring differently, nonetheless I get the impression that Robin's cape is yellow on the outside...as the traditional cape color. Also the shadow gives enough definition of Robin's wrist that there are no Bat-scallops on the glove.
Also Tim Drake is the only Bat-ally standing at the end of #680 (Alfred presumed dying as per future solicitations read, Dick is drugged in Arkham and NIGHTWING and ROBIN are being cancelled)...Red & Black...

The more detective work I do...on GeniusboyFiremelon, Callahan even noted (http://geniusboyfiremelon.blogspot.com/2008/05/batman-rip-begins-batman-676.html) that Robin says in the chase scene #676, page 10-11, "I like Robin's line to the Green Vulture: "You're on bad drugs in a Halloween suit with about a dozen cameras recording your complete loss of self-respect.""
What happens later in #680...the Batman of Zur-en-arrh. On bad drugs, a dozen camera on him, in a hallowe'en suit, about to lose his self-respect. Even Dr. Hurt says it, "Can the ultimate noble spirit SURVIVE the ultimate ignoble BETRAYAL?"
The Joker says to Batman near the end of this penultimate issue, "ah. heh. love really is blind." I bet Joker's not talking about Jezebel Jet...hiding in plain sight.

All I wanted was the splash page from #676 and I got the ID of the Black Glove...I think.

This is fun, Callahan, you're right...I feel as anything could happen.

My bet's now on TIM DRAKE. After losing his father, his best friend, thinking his girlfriend was dead...hey, Any takers?

[rev sully]

*oops!...sorry

[TimothyCallahan]

And if Rich Johnson's DiDio/Morrison info from this week's LYING column is correct, this R.I.P. stuff may be the end of Morrison's Batman stuff after all.

But, yeah, I really don't know how it's going to end. (Although I will stick by my old-timey Dick and Damian as Bats and Robin prediction.)

[rev sully]

And if Rich Johnson's DiDio/Morrison info from this week's LYING column is correct, this R.I.P. stuff may be the end of Morrison's Batman stuff after all.

But, yeah, I really don't know how it's going to end. (Although I will stick by my old-timey Dick and Damian as Bats and Robin prediction.)

Callahan...would you gimme a link to this LIE?
I recall Grant saying he's got BATMAN plotted out until the end of '09.

PS...I did a little reading of your stuff about Morrison and...DARN YOU!!! Fractals? I hadda look it up on Wikipedia (Batman: CD Changer, Joker; Wikipedia). Jeeez...fractal simulations look like Kirby Dots if I stare HARD enough...but iDigress....

[rev sully]

heh!

Morris is Fox in Scotland! What a vicious cycle!

zurr-en-arrh!!!