BoP has been cancelled, and no thread on YABS?

[bert]

I know, I haven't been reading it either since Gail left, but I'm still sad to see it go :(

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I think this is the third thread.....

It is a shame though. I liked Bedard's take.

[Michael P]

$10 says this is the Bat-books' "Age of Apocalypse," and they'll all be back by June.

[Hybrid2]

I know, I haven't been reading it either since Gail left, but I'm still sad to see it go :(

There was 2!

rumor is that Robin will becaume Red Robin
Nightwing becaume Batmen and Robin
and BoP Girls of Gotham with Harley and Catwoman.

why cancel BoP? I dont know. :-(

[Pink Bat Maxine]

There was 2!

rumor is that Robin will becaume Red Robin
Nightwing becaume Batmen and Robin
and BoP Girls of Gotham with Harley and Catwoman.

why cancel BoP? I dont know. :-(

Harley and Catwoman..... what about Ivy?!?!!

I'm guessing this is a temporary change.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

There was 2!

rumor is that Robin will becaume Red Robin
Nightwing becaume Batmen and Robin
and BoP Girls of Gotham with Harley and Catwoman.

why cancel BoP? I dont know. :-(


Because DC hates the 90's and wants to wipe that decade off the map if possible. Even if it means cancelling 2-3 good books.

[bert]

I think this is the third thread.....

It is a shame though. I liked Bedard's take.

really?

I searched two pages of YABS and saw nothing. . .

hmmm. . .maybe my eyes are going?

[DavidAllred]

I was most disheartened by Nightwing getting the axe. But yeah, BOP is a tough one to see go as well. At least now I can by a complete set of both titles on Ebay. A lot of collectors wait until a series is finished to throw them up for sale in a full run. I know that's what I'm waiting on with my Superman/Batman and GL Corps pulls. I got a full run of GA volume one and Batman & Robin Adventures (Dini) that way. Nice thing is when you buy like that, you can read all the issues you missed and sell it back for about what you paid.

Unfortunately, I missed most of the first two years of BOP and Robin. Probably pissed at DC over something, I don't remember. :smile:


ETA: Oh yeah, I bought several Atom books when Gail was on it, but didn't get all of them until recently. Gail, your run was marvelous.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

really?

I searched two pages of YABS and saw nothing. . .

hmmm. . .maybe my eyes are going?

Here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=244761) and here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=244223).

To the Bat-Optometrist! :biggrin:

[Red Jack]

$10 says this is the Bat-books' "Age of Apocalypse," and they'll all be back by June.

No bet.

I agree.

[Cam63]

WhiteRose does good work.

[Spiffy]

I know, I haven't been reading it either since Gail left, but I'm still sad to see it go :(
Ah. This is that "if I'm not part of it, it doesn't exist" attitude again, eh? :biggrin:

[Spiffy]

really?

I searched two pages of YABS and saw nothing. . .
Next time "Birds of Prey" instead of just "BoP".

And definitely not "Birds of Pray". It's unholy to pray to birds! :biggrin:

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Next time "Birds of Prey" instead of just "BoP".

And definitely not "Birds of Pray". It's unholy to pray to birds! :biggrin:

Thoth is angered!

http://www.philipcoppens.com/thoth_01.jpg

[Deathstroke]

Well bert, you may have left after Gail did, but for those of us who remained with the book it is an even more bitter pill to swallow.

[Typo Lad]

Well bert, you may have left after Gail did, but for those of us who remained with the book it is an even more bitter pill to swallow.
As someone who tried to stay, it's kinda a mercy killing from my POV.

[Cam63]

Yew cain't shoot Yeller, Paw !

[AndrewCrossett]

So February is the final issue? Meaning there are 4 issues left to go?

It is very disappointing. I know that Barbara and Helena will find new jobs in the DCU, but I hope that Zinda, Misfit and Black Alice won't be left out in the cold.

I'm writing to DC to suggest that they revive BoP in the form of occasional graphic novels by various creators... hopefully including Gail. Just as many TV shows get low broadcast rating but sell very well on DVD, I think a lot of monthly comics with solid fanbases but mediocre sales figures would do a lot better in the "complete story for $15" format.

[TCJohnson]

It should be pointed out that DC very rarely sends out press releases that a book is coming to an end...unless they are drumming up interest for a relaunch.

[JeffreyWKramer]

It is very disappointing. I know that Barbara and Helena will find new jobs in the DCU, but I hope that Zinda, Misfit and Black Alice won't be left out in the cold.


Black Alice has shown up in other books, so I think we can expect she, at least, will not be disappearing any time soon.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

It should be pointed out that DC very rarely sends out press releases that a book is coming to an end...unless they are drumming up interest for a relaunch.

Well these books are also likely involved in that whole "Battle of the Cowl" thing happening soon. So I can see why the Press Release happened.

[Charles RB]

why cancel BoP? I dont know. :-(

Sales were low, I assume.

[stealthwise]

Black Alice has shown up in other books, so I think we can expect she, at least, will not be disappearing any time soon.

Yeah, maybe Winick will get a crack at her soon.

[LewisH]

when some of the new backs they launch, such as Vigilante, don't sell near as well.

[Cam63]

Yeah, maybe Winick will get a crack at her soon.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!

[Tobias March]

Yeah, maybe Winick will get a crack at her soon.

Oh hurrah. Spiffing.

Wait, no, that's probably bad.

[Venom Melendez]

Because DC hates the 90's and wants to wipe that decade off the map if possible. Even if it means cancelling 2-3 good books.

The 90's sucked comicverse wise so i can't exactly blame them.

[Tobias March]

The 90's sucked comicverse wise so i can't exactly blame them.

There was quite a lot of bad stuff, but a scorched earth policy is not the way to go. The Vertigo books were good, a lot of creator-owned material was excellent.

I mean really, if penitence for the 90's was the issues, the X-Men should have been wiped off the map.

[OzBat!]

BoP should return to its original format, ongoing series of miniseries. That did really well, was a complete coherent story each time, and interest was high between minis. Try going back to that and see what happens.

Might even be able to get Gail to return to BoP occasionally if it was a miniseries, fit it in between her regular assignments!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The 90's sucked comicverse wise so i can't exactly blame them.

There was quite a lot of bad stuff, but a scorched earth policy is not the way to go. The Vertigo books were good, a lot of creator-owned material was excellent.

I mean really, if penitence for the 90's was the issues, the X-Men should have been wiped off the map.

Not everything sucked in the 1990's comics wise. Nightwing and Robin were good reads for the time they lasted. Such a shame DC's pulling the plug on those books. I remember getting Robin 1# when it came out in 1993. Man....16 years....shame to see it go.

[Charles RB]

BoP should return to its original format, ongoing series of miniseries. That did really well, was a complete coherent story each time, and interest was high between minis. Try going back to that and see what happens.

And maybe subtly push for BOP guest appearances and cameos in some other titles, boost their profile?

[Venom Melendez]

Not everything sucked in the 1990's comics wise. Nightwing and Robin were good reads for the time they lasted. Such a shame DC's pulling the plug on those books. I remember getting Robin 1# when it came out in 1993. Man....16 years....shame to see it go.

Granted, nothing last forever. But damn i've forgotten how long it has been.

[Spiffy]

BoP should return to its original format, ongoing series of miniseries. That did really well, was a complete coherent story each time, and interest was high between minis. Try going back to that and see what happens.
One of my notions in one of the alternate threads bert did not see was a reboot of the Birds franchise as an Oracle series. Maybe a better route is a 5-6 issue Oracle mini-series (or maybe even a maxi of 10-12). BoP can be "rested" as a franchise for a while without really having to dissolve it, because it can just be implied that this mini/maxi is something Babs has to do on her own (well, maybe not on her own, but with various other super-guest stars who aren't typically part of the Birds). Then by the END of that, maybe people will be clamoring for a return for the whole gang.

[Flâneur]

*feels sad for Manhunter and Misfit*

[Flamebird]

BoP should return to its original format, ongoing series of miniseries. That did really well, was a complete coherent story each time, and interest was high between minis. Try going back to that and see what happens.

Might even be able to get Gail to return to BoP occasionally if it was a miniseries, fit it in between her regular assignments!

You know, that was what I was expecting for Secret Six, rather than an ongoing.

I think it would work for BoP and the Six; plus have the benefit of freeing Gail up to do other things.

Ah well.

[the4thpip]

You know, that was what I was expecting for Secret Six, rather than an ongoing.

I think it would work for BoP and the Six; plus have the benefit of freeing Gail up to do other things.

Ah well.

Didn't LITG report that Wanda Didio recently said "Daddy, no more mini series"?

[suedenim]

I like Bedard's take on the series, and continue to be disappointed that the poor guy can't seem to catch a break when it comes to keeping an ongoing gig. Everything he starts either gets redefined to be a "fill-in arc" or the title gets cancelled.

Like a lot of people, I suspect this is mostly a "Prelude to Re-launch" cancellation... for Robin and Nightwing, anyway. I'm reasonably certain that Robin and/or Dick Grayson will always have a prominent spot in the DCU. Unfortunately, the Birds of Prey don't have 60+ years of existence that makes them indispensible... so there's a danger they are, in fact, getting dispensed with here.

[Shade]

I like Bedard's take on the series, and continue to be disappointed that the poor guy can't seem to catch a break when it comes to keeping an ongoing gig. Everything he starts either gets redefined to be a "fill-in arc" or the title gets cancelled.

I agree. Maybe I'm the minority but I think Bedard has done a fantastic job on the book and I've been enjoying the hell out of it. Having BoP yanked out from under him sucks.

[scout1279]

I like Bedard's stuff as well, and I think the only real problem with it was that it didn't go straight from Gail Simone to Tony Bedard. Not that I thought that McKeever did such a terribel job, just that if he wasn't going to stick around, he shouldn't have been there at all. Bedard's fill-in issues between Gail's run and McKeever's run were pretty awesome anyway.

[Alexx1]

I like Bedard's stuff as well, and I think the only real problem with it was that it didn't go straight from Gail Simone to Tony Bedard. Not that I thought that McKeever did such a terribel job, just that if he wasn't going to stick around, he shouldn't have been there at all. Bedard's fill-in issues between Gail's run and McKeever's run were pretty awesome anyway.

I totally agree. I think the main problem is McKeever spent much of his time estranging the Birds from one another. They still haven't recovered from the ill feelings caused. And one panel seeing them squashing it doesn't fix the animosity and mistrust that developed.

After Gail's mega BoP/SS crossover the stories should have been devouted and returned to the core members: Oracle, Huntress, and LB with some character and relationship development instead McKeever pulled them further and further apart all while moving them to another location. Now Bedard's been strapped with the responsibility of setting up this new city from the ground up and much of the attention has gone to establishing that along with new villians and a new member of BOP, Infinity which deminishes panel time to Oracle, Huntress, and LB. Plus we got a needless Darkside tie-in. Bedard never got a chance to implement his ideas. The only one being the Babs/Joker stuff and that's been marred by this Platnium Flats bagagge that's just simply not interesting no matter who writes it.

[NickThompson]

At a guess, Babs is going to become Batgirl again.

[s33r]

At a guess, Babs is going to become Batgirl again.

Oh, PLEASE no. She's gone so far beyond that. She has her own identity now. She's too smart and too accomplished to go back to living in anyone's shadow, especially if it means being called "girl" again. That's ignoring the awesomeness of a handi-capable A-rank superhero.

I work with handi-capable kids, and they love her. I've printed out Oracle logos as prizes for good work. They're better than stickers.

[NickThompson]

Oh, PLEASE no. She's gone so far beyond that. She has her own identity now. She's too smart and too accomplished to go back to living in anyone's shadow, especially if it means being called "girl" again. That's ignoring the awesomeness of a handi-capable A-rank superhero.

I work with handi-capable kids, and they love her. I've printed out Oracle logos as prizes for good work. They're better than stickers.
I agree with you. She is more important to the DCU as the major computer user than just another superhero who doesn't even have her own unique identity. Plus it's nice to have a character who is as you say, something that might appeal to quite a lot of potential readers. She's at that level where she is big enough to have a much-seen position in the DCU, but low level enough that she doesn't have to go back, like Batman or Wonder Woman.






To be honest, cancelling BOP doesn't bother me that much, books end all the time, but I hope they don't have a book called "Bad Girls of Gotham". That's a terrible name :)

[The Ray]

Blue Beetle has been canceled.



So…pissed…off…can't…see…straight.

[Calvin Government]

Blue Beetle has been canceled.

So…pissed…off…can't…see…straight.

...yeah. That, frankly, just plain sucks.

[4thHorseman]

Blue Beetle has been canceled.



So…pissed…off…can't…see…straight.

Mehttp://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq348/4thHorseman/slap.gifDidio

Going to miss it. What a great book.

[CutterMike]

(...)
To be honest, cancelling BOP doesn't bother me that much, books end all the time, but I hope they don't have a book called "Bad Girls of Gotham". That's a terrible name :)It could be worse -- ponder, for a moment, the dreadfulness conjured up by changing it to "Bad Girrlz of Gotham".

Trust me: "It Could Always Be Worse!™"

[Flamebird]

So they canceled BoP; but we're gonna get a "wonderful" Oracle mini-series out of it.

Granted they don't even have a writer for the thing; but I'm sure it will be fantastic.

UGHHH!!!:mad:

[Charles RB]

Mehttp://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq348/4thHorseman/slap.gifDidio

It was Didio who deliberately had it started in the first place, IIRC.

[Gail Simone]

I'm sad about it. Bop is an important book.

Hopefully something good comes out of it.

[Calvin Government]

So they canceled BoP; but we're gonna get a "wonderful" Oracle mini-series out of it.

Granted they don't even have a writer for the thing; but I'm sure it will be fantastic.

UGHHH!!!:mad:

That kind of struck me, too. Some writers just don't really have a handle on some characters. But if you're dictating the story from the top down - which this obviously is - then I suspect you're going to go with whoever's available, rather than whoever has the best handle of the character.

Which isn't to say that the series will be bad. I'm extremely hopeful about it. I'm just...worried, I guess, that this is a bad sign.

Ah, well. Here's to hoping that someone with a passion for the character takes over. I, of course, would nobly volunteer my services...but my complete and utter lack of talent and experience, I fear, would get in the way.

But, yes. Here's to hoping that Babs and the Birds continue on!

[Dr Ray Palmer]

Well, of course they had to cancel BoP, because something is happening with or to Batman, and BoP is a Batman book, and Batman is absolutely critical to everything that happens in BoP and those characters only exist in relation to Batman. Duh!

Honestly, though, BoP had drifted to the bottom of my read pile each month, and so I'm not that sad about it ending in the "OMG, this is one of my favorite books and I will really miss it!" sense. But it does make me sad because of the "BoP = Batman hangers-on" message DC seems to be sending, and mostly because I'm afraid Huntress and especially Zinda will shuffle off to limbo.

[Alexx1]

, and mostly because I'm afraid Huntress and especially Zinda will shuffle off to limbo.

Huntress is such a fantastic character or at least ought to be...

Hopefully we can get some BOP in SS and/or in WW. I just want Gail to write Oracle, Huntress, and LB again! I'm so not happy right now.

[suedenim]

This should be the impetus for Zinda to get a solo book, dammit!

(No, I don't think that will actually happen, but I can dream....)

[AndrewCrossett]

This should be the impetus for Zinda to get a solo book, dammit!

(No, I don't think that will actually happen, but I can dream....)

Didn't Gail once mention she'd like to write a Blackhawks story?

That's something I'd certainly like to see.

[Mercurialblonde]

Seems like DC is cancelling a lot of books right now. They must have huge plans for next year.

[Dr Ray Palmer]

You know, I actively disliked the Blackhawks for many years. Like, from the time I started reading comics at about age 8 until ... well, when Lady Blackhawk was added to the BoP cast I was like, "Oh, hell, it's one of those boring-ass Blackhawks." And then within about 2 issues Gail had made Zinda one of my favorite characters. Now it's almost scary how much I loves me some Zinda.

So I would be in favor of any future project that would involve Gail writing Zinda. I still want to see that Zinda story Gail mentioned in an interview years ago about how Zinda believes she's the last of the Blackhawks, but that may not really be the case.

[AndrewCrossett]

It would be amusing to see an alternate-worlds-collide storyline in which Zinda meets up with the Howard Chaykin version of Lady Blackhawk, Natalie Reed. I don't think the two Ladies B would get along too well, especially since Natalie was an avid Communist. The interaction would be interesting to see.

[bert]

So they canceled BoP; but we're gonna get a "wonderful" Oracle mini-series out of it.

Granted they don't even have a writer for the thing; but I'm sure it will be fantastic.

UGHHH!!!:mad:


did Gail ever tell us what her next big project was?

maybe it's Oracle?

[bert]

Blue Beetle has been canceled.



So…pissed…off…can't…see…straight.

Didn't BB join the Teen Titans?


(I'm not certain, since I'm not buying it until Static! shows up, and that should be in the near future, I hope).

[suedenim]

It would be amusing to see an alternate-worlds-collide storyline in which Zinda meets up with the Howard Chaykin version of Lady Blackhawk, Natalie Reed. I don't think the two Ladies B would get along too well, especially since Natalie was an avid Communist. The interaction would be interesting to see.

I agree that Zinda wouldn't hold much truck with Commies, though it is interesting to note that she basically missed the rise *and* fall of international Communism entirely!

[AndrewCrossett]

Wasn't Zinda in 1959 or something when she got swept up in Zero Hour? I've never been too clear on her weird timeline.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Seems like DC is cancelling a lot of books right now. They must have huge plans for next year.

Yeah....they have some "Big" plans coming down the pike it seems.


Flash is being cancelled ....and then relaunched at #1 after the "Flash:Rebirth" mini-series.

LSH is coming back its rumored...with the original 1st LSH that ended in 1994.

Adventure Comics is returning and will star Superman and a guest star each month.

Powergirl gets her own series

Justice League launches .....

In Darkest Night will happen....

[suedenim]

Wasn't Zinda in 1959 or something when she got swept up in Zero Hour? I've never been too clear on her weird timeline.

I don't believe it's ever been exactly spelled out when she moved from past to present, but she's clearly a young woman (e.g., she still gets carded, and thus needs a fake ID because nobody believes the birthdate on her real one), and has clearly been shown fighting with the Blackhawks during WWII, so it seems fairly clear to me that she never made it into the '50s, and probably didn't see V-J Day.

The interesting thing is that our Zinda implicitly has a very different background from Pre-Crisis Zinda, who was indeed introduced circa 1959, when the Blackhawks were (as always, until the '80s series) depicted in "the present day."

(Which, to me, suggests that Zinda is a very remarkable woman. It's one thing for a bunch of peacetime "freelance adventurer" types to let a hot chick hang out with their exclusive paramilitary squadron. But our Zinda implicitly earned her way into a *very* exclusive (by invitation only, and issuing few to no invitations!) elite military squadron in wartime, that's something else entirely!)

[Tyr]

There was 2!


Indeed, really Bert, if your going to steal my thunder, then why aren't you paroding my threads like you normally do, instead of blatantly ripping me off? :wink:

[Flamebird]

Didn't BB join the Teen Titans?


(I'm not certain, since I'm not buying it until Static! shows up, and that should be in the near future, I hope).

No t reading it myself, but I believe that Static has already turned up in Terror Titans.

[AndrewCrossett]

I don't believe it's ever been exactly spelled out when she moved from past to present, but she's clearly a young woman (e.g., she still gets carded, and thus needs a fake ID because nobody believes the birthdate on her real one), and has clearly been shown fighting with the Blackhawks during WWII, so it seems fairly clear to me that she never made it into the '50s, and probably didn't see V-J Day.

The interesting thing is that our Zinda implicitly has a very different background from Pre-Crisis Zinda, who was indeed introduced circa 1959, when the Blackhawks were (as always, until the '80s series) depicted in "the present day."

(Which, to me, suggests that Zinda is a very remarkable woman. It's one thing for a bunch of peacetime "freelance adventurer" types to let a hot chick hang out with their exclusive paramilitary squadron. But our Zinda implicitly earned her way into a *very* exclusive (by invitation only, and issuing few to no invitations!) elite military squadron in wartime, that's something else entirely!)

Hmmm. So, putting aside the Chaykin version, we've got:

1. The original Lady Blackhawk, who joined the team in 1959 and adventured with them well into the 1960's (including the Killer Shark incident)...and

2. Gail's Lady Blackhawk, who joined the team during WW2, was pulled forward in time sometime during or shortly after the war (since she's still a young woman)...and remembers the Killer Shark incident, which must have happened much earlier in her timeline.

So #1 must have been retconned out of existence, since our Zinda hasn't run into her 85-year-old self.

This wouldn't be the first time something like this happened...the Blackhawks were retconned before to eliminate racial stereotyping, etc.

[suedenim]

I think what it boils down to is that, over time, a general consensus has formed that the Blackhawks are more fun and interesting in a World War II milleu.

That's actually a relatively *new* consensus. In 1946, I'm sure nobody ever thought "We should leave these characters in 1945 forever." Obviously, the more natural choice was to keep them having "contemporary" adventures.

And by the time of DC's Silver Age, the Blackhawks were essentially just another bunch of guys who were, like the Sea Devils or Challengers of the Unknown, contemporaries of the Justice League - still WWII vets, but in a way that (a la Reed and Ben's WWII veteranhood over at Marvel) wasn't, I believe, talked about much, nor the fact that they should have been pushing middle age at best.

In the present DCU, it's clear that the Blackhawks (at least in their original composition with Chuck, Andre, Olaf, etc. - there have been various other vaguely defined entities shown using the Blackhawk name from time to time) were never active at the same time as Superman, Batman, et al.

So, yeah, my (deductive) take is that the Pre-Crisis Lady Blackhawk timeline (which, arguably, would've been not "1959" but "7 years ago" or somesuch) is no longer operative, and that a new history of the Blackhawks has many of their more interesting post-war adventures retconned back to the '40s.

[suedenim]

Incidentally, I think Blackhawk might actually be unique, or nearly so, as a comic book feature created during and basically *about* World War II that had an extended life in publication long after that conflict.

[JKCarrier]

Incidentally, I think Blackhawk might actually be unique, or nearly so, as a comic book feature created during and basically *about* World War II that had an extended life in publication long after that conflict.

The only other one I can think of is AIRBOY, and he only lasted until '53. I wonder what it is about the Blackhawks that made them so durable? I haven't read a lot of their '40s adventures -- I know they had great art by Reed Crandall and others. I have read a few of the '60s issues, and they're pretty mediocre. And the less said about the superhero Blackhawks (http://comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=20791&zoom=4), the better. :eek:

[AndrewCrossett]

Will Eisner and his collaborators put together a compelling and interesting team from the start. It's a lot easier to keep a title going (even perhaps after it should stop) when it is built on very solid groundwork.

(BTW, I guess Zinda's willingness to view Creote with lust in her heart is evidence of how she's not reflexively averse to Russians/Communists as she would be as a child of the 50's... she remembers them as allies.)