Frank's DD & Modern Classics

[pmpknface]

Interesting article Augie! It's also cool to see someone read something for the 1st time that you've digested years ago - and read a few times! I just thought I'd start a thread about it, and reply / comment of a few things...

Every generation of creators wants to do their own version of the most famous run on the title
Yup. I think this is one reason people eventually get sick of mainstream stuff because they say , "I've seen if before in..." or "it was better when I read it the 1st time in...." I don't know that creators really want to re-do a Stan/Jack run on FF or Miller on DD, but yes the same elements do appear often.

You brought up THOR, and I think Jurgens run was damn good and he was doing things that hadn't been done before. But... he did use the Destroyer and other lost gods (Malekth anyone?) so the runs get compared and debated by fandom.

But when you get the keys to the kingdom, don't you want to play with the coolest toys? The trick is to make them interesting in a new light while keeping them in character. And that's not easy. Hell, how many times now has Matt Murdock been defending Daredevil? Or vice versa?

The Eisner and "Spirit" influences, in particular, on Miller's "Daredevil" are unmistakable.

Yeah, cool huh? I didn't know that when I was reading it for the 1st time, but after I figured out who Eisner was and saw his art it became obvious. Makes you wonder who Eisner looked at and admired, huh?

monthly...

Frank's first ish on DD as montly was 171, and he started in 158! Hard to believe that a major title was only out 6x a year for that long!!!

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/daredevil/171-1.jpg

Random - Q: Have you read LOVE & WAR, ELEKTRA ASSASSIN, and ELEKTRA LIVES AGAIN? I know you mention DD Born Again and The Man Without Fear, but that other stuff is so KEY!!! It actually gets better as it goes on.

Oh, and have you finished this run yet???

As with "Sin City," Miller likes to have recurring street tough characters there for the purposes of comic relief, running gags, and entry points into the seedier underworld. They may be fairly one note, but they're entertaining as heck. I was beginning to root for poor Turk by the end of the second volume.

YEAH! We all love Turk! He's still in the book too.

I'll get to the Modern Classics tomorrow. :biggrin:

[De Carabas]

Oh my God, thanks for that flashback Jamie. That was my first, ever, issue of Daredevil! Bought it at the newsstand because, of all things, it had the Kingpin on the cover. I read it so many times that the cover starting tearing around the staples. And I took care of my books as a kid, so that should tell you something.

Issue #172 became something of Holy Grail for me, though. #171 ends on a real cliffhanger. I mean I was freaking out, wondering how this new and exciting superhero, that I'd just discovered, was going to get out of this certain death. There was just no way! But since fate has a sick sense of humor, it would be ten years until I would find #172. I missed it at the newsstand and by the time I discovered what would be my LCS for many years, they no longer had it in stock. Now, I had #174, and numerous issues afterward, so I know DD escaped, but I never knew how! It plagued my imagination for years, and then one day I found it.

There had been a number of small, local cons in Miami between 1988-1990; one small ballroom, with a single guest and thirteen dealers, that sort of thing. JRjr was the guest during his DD run, so one of the dealers, wisely, brought every DD back issue he had. Pawing through a long box, I found it. Just sitting there, pretty as you please, with a bag and no board. $1.50 in magic marker written on the bag, but the box had a "1/2 Off" sign on the front. I kept a cool poker face (*snort* dude probably thought I was epileptic) and calmly proceeded to pay the man. I immediately rushed to a quiet spot in the lobby, sat on the floor, whipped open to the first page, and suddenly had Frank Miller's autograph staring up at me! Fate may have a sick sense of humor, but it also has a nice streak a mile wide.

Oh, DD's escape? Totally pedestrian. But, it has Frank Miller's autograph and only cost me one decade and 75 cents.

EM

[Blaine62]

Y'know I'm pretty sure the two part Punisher story was held over from the McKenzie run due to problems with The Comics Code Authority. Either it was rewritten or by the time it was printed the code was loosing a degree of influence. Were the code stamps on those issues? I'll have to check.

And I believe your right about the not showing the Sai cutting straight through the costume, no-prizes all round!

[kevhines]

I was beginning to root for poor Turk by the end of the second volume.

YEAH! We all love Turk! He's still in the book too.

and Turk shows up in the Batman universe too. Either Year One or Dark Knight Returns. I can't recall right now.

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Hey Jamie,

I'm seriously tempted to devote a small series to discussing the series, issue by issue. Or, at least, highlighted issues. There's a lot to talk about in there.

And, no, I haven't read the follow-up Elektra books or the Mazzucchelli-drawn storyline. I have those trades, though. I want to get to them next, if I have time. Previous to this, "The Man Without Fear" is the only Miller DD I had read.

I have three issues yet to read on the original run right now.

I need to keep an eye out for Turk now. Loved it when he tried to take over for Stilt Man. Bwah ha ha

-Augie

[dancj]

and Turk shows up in the Batman universe too. Either Year One or Dark Knight Returns. I can't recall right now.
Ooh - I never made the connection, but I do vaguely remember towards the begining, someone says something like "Turk says he killed Batman" and the reply is "Turk says lots"

[Arild]

Great article, Augie, both FM/DD overview and the Modern Classics list.

You mention "outside superhero" Don Rosa's L&TOUS (quite agree there) so I'd like to mention another in that same group: Jeff Smith's BONE. And by default, re-include Sandman.

A Modern Classic is - to my mind - a book/series (from the last 25 years) that I will without doubt recommend to any reader, whether they are familiar with superhero stories or comics in general. Bone, Sandman and Uncle Scrooge all fit that bill, also most of the books on your list.

Also, being European, it is an indication that a book might be a possible MC when it is translated/published over here, especially after a while, not part of current fashions or publishing deals.

It is strange to see how much material from the eighties still make this list, and how little there is after thatr. But then again, that is your question, is it not?

First: one must include the full "The Shadow" run from Helfer on DC from those golden years, starting with the beautiful Bill Sienkiewicz opening and then hitting the bullseye with Kyle Bake afterwards. Fantastic series, and possibly there is room also for Chaykin's Blood and Judgement TPB that came even earlier.

Your query re: "JLA/Avengers" is worthwhile. IMO, many Modern Classics just "happened", as a result of happy marriages of great stories, great characters and great art. This series was ordered and erected ediotorially and touted as a long-awaited masterpiece before it was released. Upon release it left a lot of readers peculiarly cold. Plenty of fire & emotion, but like a lot of mega-events it seemed a little hollow, even with Perez at his best.

Remember another mega-touted occasion? "Imagine Stan Lee creating DC characters". What a miserable effort...

Very little MC-contenders in the Batman area in the last years, one has to return to the first Elseworlds stories to find true classics. One period stands a bit above the rest: the bunch of issues after Detective 700 + - with the new trade dress, covers and duo-process coloring. That were some cool issues.

Can't think of anything else at the moment...

[sinned2007]

I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't read the Frank Miller DD saga yet. I do have the Omnibus waiting to be read so that'll be next in line...

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Hey Arild,

"JLA/Avengers" is basically exactly what I expected it would be. It's not high art or groundbreaking comics. That's OK. It is what it is -- a big grand superhero team up book co-starring characters you'd never expect to see together. It's got a nice plot device to carry the narrative and push everyone together. It's got grandiose art. It has a solid "feel" to it that some might mistake for "old fashioned." It mixed modern storytelling with Silver Age storytelling in a way that I really loved. It played well to the hard core fans, while putting on quite a show for less engaged fans who just wanted to see something cool.

So I'll defend that one for a long long time.

Ditto that run of "Detective" you're talking about. I was one of the few on-line defenders for the two-color technique they used, and still roll my eyes at the ingrates who complain that they paid for full color and only got two. Good thing I don't own a gun. . . That was Shawn Martinbrough an Greg Rucka. I have one page of original art from that run, though is (sadly but obviously) omits the distinctive coloring.

Heck, that may have been the last time the Bat-titles were readable for me.

I'd like to read "The Shadow" someday. I've heard so many great things about it. Perhaps they'll do a TPB of it or something at some point. It's one of those books that everyone who's read it speaks well of, but not many have read it anymore.

-Augie

[dancj]

I'd be surprised if they bring out a TPB of The Shadow. The people who own the character were very unhappy with the direction the book took - which I beleive is why it stopped unfinished mid-story.

Possibly the best cliffhanger of all time though!

[pmpknface]

I loved the Sienkiewicz art on those early ones though.

As far as other modern classics go, here's a few suggestions that my morning coffee induced haze of a brain can come up with on a Monday morning:


WOLVERINE mini by Miller and Claremont
any DD or ELEKTRA by Miller
KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT
NEW MUTANTS by Sienkiewicz & Claremont
DAREDEVIL 1-8 by Quesada and Kevin Smith
X-MEN by Morrison & others
ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #13
ASTRO CITY
AKIRA
SECRET WARS
INFINITY GAUNTLET
PUNISHER by Ennis
KINGDOM COME
MARVELS
BONE
LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN
SANDMAN
TRANSMETROPOLITAN
GREEN LANTERN: EMERALD TWILIGHT
DC'S CRISIS
BATMAN: THE LONG HALLOWEEN
Y: THE LAST MAN
100 BULLETS
FABLES
AMERICAN FLAGG
WATCHEMEN
DARK KNIGHT RETURNS
BATMAN: HUSH
JLA by Morrison
TEEN TITANS by Perez & Wolfman
DC: THE NEW FRONTIER
PLANETARY
THE AUTHORITY (1ST few vol's)
ASM by McFarlane
Spawn (1-20?)
SAVAGE DRAGON (1-40?)
SIN CITY
PROMETHEA
MAUS
FANTISTIC FOUR by Ringo & Waid
KABUKI: CIRCLE OF BLOOD by Mack
BLANKETS


I could have entered the Bendis / Maleev run on DD or the current Cap run by Brubaker, but they are still too new or ongoing. Same deal with Morrison's current BATMAN run, and the FC and SI stuff. I left off the Jurgens / Romita Jr. THOR, but it really came close.

I wanted to add in some more manga, but most of this stuff is old and just coming to the US for the 1st time now and I didn't know if it qualified or not. I haven't read nearly as much DC stuff, so I didn't know what else to add. A good Flash story maybe?

I wanted to add Invincible and The Walking Dead but just couldn't do it - yet. I'm sure you could take the recent ALL-STAR B&R and SUPERMAN runs and add them shortly.

What else ya got? :biggrin:

[pmpknface]

If manga were involved....


Lone Wolf & Cub
Osama Tezuka (period)
Battle Royale
Blade of the Immortal
Uzaumaki


What else ya got???

Also - I need a Superman story, maybe some more indy stuff too?