What Do You Like About Lois Lane?

[Shellhead]

I can't imagine a Superman series without Lois Lane, but I don't actually like her. And sometimes it almost seems masochistic for Superman to love her. What do you as a Superman fan like about Lois?

[Gordon Smith]

I can't imagine a Superman series without Lois Lane, but I don't actually like her. And sometimes it almost seems masochistic for Superman to love her. What do you as a Superman fan like about Lois?

My aversion to Lois Lane is actually one of the reasons I don't follow Superman. I always thought the character was dull as dirt and totally unworthy of Superman. Mind you, that feeling is probably rooted in my distaste for the Sliver Age iteration. Maybe she's improved since then, but I don't get the love.

[Alan2099]

I liked her a lot better in the animated series where her relationship with Clark was a lot more biting and sarcastic and she tended to flush and be in awe of Superman. I also kinda enjoyed her always being this close to fiding out who Superman really was. Current Lois just seems to lack any real energy or draw in her character.

She tends to come across as nothing more than a cliche of the typical liberated professional woman with little to no personality to fall back on.

[cpahl2000]

I like her love to Clark, her companionship, confidence, which is the best because Clark can return, after fighting the evil or saving someone or even fail and can talk to her, to have her sympathy, understanding and love. She is his lover, friend, confident,which and me a great fan of hers.

[Mat001]

My aversion to Lois Lane is actually one of the reasons I don't follow Superman. I always thought the character was dull as dirt and totally unworthy of Superman. Mind you, that feeling is probably rooted in my distaste for the Sliver Age iteration. Maybe she's improved since then, but I don't get the love.

She's changed a lot since the Silver Age. I like the Lois of the Post Crisis continuity because she's no longer portrayed as she was in the Silver Age. She doesn't need Superman to come to her rescue. She was able to take care of herself both before and after Superman came into the picture. I like that she's been able to fall in love with Clark Kent, because she could see that there was more to him than she first thought. I like that she was able to stage a rescue of a powerless Clark, turning their relationship on its ear for that one issue. She's still a hard bitten journalist, but she has a softer side that doesn't take away from her strength.

[livin_target]

My aversion to Lois Lane is actually one of the reasons I don't follow Superman. I always thought the character was dull as dirt and totally unworthy of Superman. Mind you, that feeling is probably rooted in my distaste for the Sliver Age iteration. Maybe she's improved since then, but I don't get the love.

http://fc14.deviantart.com/fs8/i/2005/356/7/b/He__s_an_Idiot__lineart_by_Aremke.jpg

:tongue:

[kane]

There is nothing i like about her. I think Superman has to be masochist to marry a bitchy woman like her.

The only Lois i like is the "smallville version", she is kinda cute.

[YoungG03]

i like Lois but Superman personal life is kida boring now that I think of it.

[Shellhead]

i like Lois but Superman personal life is kida boring now that I think of it.

Good point. Lois was better as a foil to Superman's protagonist.

Btw, when Lois finally found out that Clark Kent was Superman, what stopped her from getting the journalistic scoop of a lifetime?

[Ontir]

Love. There was no way she was going to betray the man she was head over heels in love with!

With that change though, Lois needed/needs to be re-tooled a bit. She now has a very unique perspective and position about the existence of super-heroes in her world. She should be questioning what they do and how they do it, while also questioning people about their celebration and disdain of the heroes. Basically calling everyone on their s:eek:t at all times.

[Sean Whitmore]

Mind you, that feeling is probably rooted in my distaste for the Sliver Age iteration. Maybe she's improved since then

In the 20-30 years since the Silver Age ended? Yeah, she's improved a little. :smile:


SEAN

[rick]

Very little actually.

I've always been a Lana man myself.

[Sean Whitmore]

I liked her a lot better in the animated series where her relationship with Clark was a lot more biting and sarcastic and she tended to flush and be in awe of Superman. I also kinda enjoyed her always being this close to fiding out who Superman really was.

That's my favorite interpretation of her as well, and it pops up a lot. Including Smallville's Lois, Byrne's Lois, and even Richard Donner's Lois.


SEAN

[AdamYJ]

I like her because she's spunky. :biggrin:

Also, when written right, I think she can be funny in a ballsy, sarcastic kind of way.

Lois is interesting because she has layers. She's the tough ballbuster who bulldozes through everything on the outside. Underneath that though, she's basically just a good person who's interested in finding the truth and crusading for justice in her own way. She does have her issues and insecurities, but so do many characters.

[J. Robb]

Lois should be a sexy, sassy go-getter, with enough drive to keep up even with Superman!

But comic writers are notoriously bad at writing women.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think the key to Lois is understanding that Superman loves Lois Lane because she's so human, warts and all. Lois Lane is not supposed to be a perfect goddess/warrior princess like Wonder Woman. She's supposed to be flawed and neurotic, cocky and over-bearing, emotionally needy yet fiercely independent.

In short, Lois Lane is all the strengths and weaknesses of humanity in microcosm.

That said, losing the Betty & Veronica angle by having Superman marry Lois was a mistake to do in the regular comics continuity. I liked Superman being stuck between choosing between All-American Girl Next Door Lana Lang and Spunky City Gal Lois Lane.

[d newton]

Since when has Lois had "serious paternal issues?".

[Jared]

Any interpretation where she's crazy about Superman while treating Clark like crap is impossible for me to like. She comes off as nothing more than the ultimate Gold Digger.

I couldn't stand the Donner version. She was bitchy and quite frankly, I didn't find her pretty enough to be Superman's gal. When Lana showed up in Part III it made her look even worse.

The dynamic between Lois and Clark on 'Lois and Clark' was better. She'd still put him down, but there was an underlying sexual tension between them. Of course, that was back before Teri Hatcher had actually learned how to act, so I didn't think whole lot of the character, but she was better than Kidder.

TAS Lois was alright, even though she seemed to falling from something every other episode.

I'm really liking Lois on this season of Smallville, though I haven't seen much of her previously. There's a nice spin on their dynamic where it's apparent that she already loves whereas he might just be starting to fall for her.

SR Lois isperson who to deceives her fiance in the deepest way possible and brings her child along while she commits B&Es. She's also so skinny she should snap in half when Superman lifts her.

[Mat001]

There is nothing i like about her. I think Superman has to be masochist to marry a bitchy woman like her.

The only Lois i like is the "smallville version", she is kinda cute.

She's just as bitchy on "Smallville" as she is in the other media.

Btw, when Lois finally found out that Clark Kent was Superman, what stopped her from getting the journalistic scoop of a lifetime?

Because she loved Clark and his parents and didn't want to hurt them. Something only a compassionate, non bitchy person would do.

That said, losing the Betty & Veronica angle by having Superman marry Lois was a mistake to do in the regular comics continuity. I liked Superman being stuck between choosing between All-American Girl Next Door Lana Lang and Spunky City Gal Lois Lane.

Except it was always no choice at all. He's loved Lois from day one. More than he ever did with Lana.

Since when has Lois had "serious paternal issues?"

Since Adventures Of Superman #424. The backstory of this was shown in "World Of Metropolis" #2.

[ZT4]

That said, losing the Betty & Veronica angle by having Superman marry Lois was a mistake to do in the regular comics continuity. I liked Superman being stuck between choosing between All-American Girl Next Door Lana Lang and Spunky City Gal Lois Lane.

Archie should have gotten hitched years ago, at least then he'd be interesting

I remember Marvel even spoofed what that'd be like once in "What The...". Hysterical...'course, it DID imply Jughead would become a homewrecker.

[AdamYJ]

The way I always thought it was (or should have gone, at least) is that while she may have been infatuated with Superman, Clark was the one she would eventually grow to love. Basically, though she treated him like a pest at first, he'd eventually become her best friend, just because he was the one who was always there. They worked together everyday, and unlike everyone else, her strong personality didn't chase him off.

[Utility Belt]

Here's my problem with Lois:
In the past she has been portrayed as more of an adversary to Clark/Superman rather than an ally. She would often come across as being very difficult and one would wonder why he chose her over Lana.
Also, focusing on the Clark-Lois-Superman triangle always made the stories more of a soap opera than action adventure.
I for one was glad when Superman told Lois his identity so we could at last be done with all those stories where she tries to find out who he is.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Except it was always no choice at all. He's loved Lois from day one. More than he ever did with Lana.


Thus the tragedy of All American Girl Lana Lang. We know he's going to be with Lois, and she knows it too. It's a shame the comics ditched all that when they got Clark married, because it eliminates all sexual tension from any scene because we know Clark would never be unfaithful to Lois.

Modern comics creators could have a hey-day with the Lois/Clark/Lana triangle for years, but DC dumped it completely...

Even TV Smallville never really did anything with the love triangle. Granted their Lana was the dullest character imaginable.

VOTE

[PastePotPete]

Aw, come on! It was just a cartoon. I thought it was funny! It's playing off of the public perception of Superman and Lois. Yes, it's inaccurate within current continuity but don't be a spoilsport.

I love Lois Lane. When written correctly she's trouble. She creates conflicts for Superman by getting into dangerous situations and never backing down. She can be bitchy and arrogant and overbearing and bossy and chaotic and moody and unpredictable. What's not to love?

Seriously. Those qualities are sexy if the woman pulls them off with style. When written correctly, Lois does.

The version of Lois I don't like is the sweet and demure long-suffering super-wife who is endlessly supportive and caring. You see her sometimes. Sure, that's what we may want in our real life relationships but it makes for a boring comic book.

Wish they'd never gotten married. Maybe Neron could over Clark a deal...

[Mat001]

Thus the tragedy of All American Girl Lana Lang. We know he's going to be with Lois, and she knows it too. It's a shame the comics ditched all that when they got Clark married, because it eliminates all sexual tension from any scene because we know Clark would never be unfaithful to Lois.

He would've never slept with Lana, back in the Pre-Crisis days. All Lana ever was was a substitute for Lois during the Superboy series. Even in the reboot, he never loved Lana the same way he would Lois. That's made clear in "Man Of Steel" #6 and subsequent stories, before Lois and Clark began a serious relationship. Clark had seen Lana as more of a sister than a lover. Lana was screwed from day one.

[livin_target]

Unless the artist was taking inspiration from the movies or the DCAU or the Silver age etc. While the comics have Lois in love with Clark and not Superman, unfortunately a lot of the other Superman focused media have it the other way round. And again, it's a parody so it shouldn't be taken as 100% accurate.

Anyway, I think Lois is quite hard to get right for most writers and her popularity suffers because of it. Part of Lois' character is that she has to have a bit of an attitude but if you make her too bitchy it turns people off. It seems to be quite hard for writers to find a balance between the Lois who can offer support to Clark and the Lois who is a very driven "take no crap" reporter.

[C. Earl]

Lois is frequently looked at as the ball and chain around Superman's ankle--but that's generally the way all spouses of superheroes are looked at. The only exception are those who have superpowers of their own, like Sue Richards.

I suppose we could petition DC to have a deal with the devil made to have the whole marriage retconned...

...or simply remember that Lois is the one who keeps the man in Superman. She's the one who keeps him from getting full of himself and forgetting those Earth-bound values the Kents taught him.

Personally, depicting Lois more in short skirts and high heels probably won't hurt either...
:biggrin:

[Retro315]

Lois Lane reminds me of my sister ... a total curiosity kills the cat type, who doesn't think a lot before she speaks and gets herself into trouble. Or who just can't resist looking into something even though the answer is bad news ...

They even have the same looks.

So whenever I read Lois, I'm reminded of my little sister, and I get a kick out of thinking, "hey, I hope my sister settles down with a nice Kansas boy some day who just happens to be the most powerful being on Earth" ...

What else about Lois Lane? Margot Kidder's fiery turn informs me of her "too busy for words" temperament, and I think Dana Delaney was one of the best bits of voice acting the DCAU could have ever done ... I still imagine Dana Delaney's voice, speaking with Kidder's inflections, when I read the comics.

Also, the fact that she follows the unbreakable L.L. standard of Superman relations amuses me. Lana Lang. Lois Lane. Lucy Lane. Linda Lang. Lex Luthor.

[J. Robb]

Modern comics creators could have a hey-day with the Lois/Clark/Lana triangle for years, but DC dumped it completely...
They still try now and then, but I'm happy that's mostly gone. It's very hard to pull off a love triangle without making one of the characters look bad, and none of the three deserve to look bad.

I see Lana as loving a guy who no longer exists- the Smallville Clark. She wanted a family man, not a public figure she would have to share with the world. So even if she got Clark, she wouldn't have been happy. It's been many years now, so she should have realized this and gotten over it.

[MythicBrawn]

I've never liked Lois. Clark has taken too much crap from her over the years. He's supposed to be the premier superhero but he comes across as weak when dealing with her. Too many times, he should have went off on her. I'm not talking physical violence but simply him telling her off. It seems that no other relationship with women is portrayed this way. WW's relationship with him is more to my liking. There always was a mutual respect and he didn't come across as a wuss around her.

[Spiffy]

Lois has been done horribly, and done well, at various times in Superman history.

The BEST aspect of her--the one that makes her FAR more essential than lets say, Mary Jane Watson, is that in the best interpretations she's Clark's equal or superior in a few ways. The lame versions of the legend give Clark a "super brain" and thus theoretically better at just about ANYTHING, but I prefer the ones which allow for the fact that Lois is actually a better reporter, possibly a better writer, and in some cases has a canny way of thinking that's beyond Clark's (normal) capabilities.

At times she's shown as a terrible snob, as overbearing, even bitchy. But again, its a matter of the writer and the execution. In better hands, she's simply clever and ambituous.

I personally can't imagine Superman comics without Lois.

As for the marriage? It depends. It's a bit less restricting than the Spider-marriage, since nobody can claim Superman is "better" as a young swinging single (like they did with Peter Parker), but it DOES need to be written cleverly to be worth it. We need to see more stories from Lois' point of view than we currently do, and more dedicated subplots.

[Mat001]

I've never liked Lois. Clark has taken too much crap from her over the years. He's supposed to be the premier superhero but he comes across as weak when dealing with her. Too many times, he should have went off on her. I'm not talking physical violence but simply him telling her off. It seems that no other relationship with women is portrayed this way. WW's relationship with him is more to my liking. There always was a mutual respect and he didn't come across as a wuss around her.

A lot of the crap came from his double life as Superman and Clark Kent. He either had to make her look like a fool tp protect his identity, like in the Silver Age or he out scooped her because Superman could get there first, as in the Modern Age. So, in a way, he did deserve what he got for what he did. No woman, much less no man, likes to be jerked around. The other half of the time came from decisions such as helping Wonder Woman instead of being there to help Sam Lane or when she thought that Superman and Clark Kent had spent years toying with her affections. This is a result of almost finding out the truth and Jonathan having to tell a lie that they raised both Clark and Kal-El at the same time. That's why he doesn't yell at her when she gets mad. She has a lot of reasons to do so and every right. That and it shows his patience with people.

[Xybernauts]

That's my favorite interpretation of her as well, and it pops up a lot. Including Smallville's Lois, Byrne's Lois, and even Richard Donner's Lois.


SEAN
I like Lois too. My favorite versions have been the Birthright version of her character. There they clearly explained what Superman sees in Lois. It explained what made her stand out in his eyes from all the other woman on earth. According to the comic it was that she was perceptive. She was able to figure out the existence of Superman even before he actually debut as Superman and can see Lex for who he really is. More important, she was really brave and heroic in Birthright. We see this when she stands up for Jimmy Olsen whose getting bullied by some higher up at the Daily Planet. Everyone else is too afraid to say anything, except for her. She boldly confronts her boss and saves Jimmy. She also confronts Lex and saves Superman from getting a major whooping by the end of the story. The best scene with Lois was when Superman was about to give up being Superman because he believed he didn't have what it takes to beat Lex. Lois unknowingly inspires Superman to stick to keep fighting with a pep speech meant for Clark. This story really clearly portrays what makes Lois stand out from other women.

As for the relationship of Lana, Lois and Wonder Woman to Superman. Lana is Superman's childhood sweetheart. Lois is his first marriage, but eventually Lois will die of old age. As Kingdom Come depicts, Superman always had feelings for WW, but never acted on them because of his relationship with Lois. When Lois passes away, Superman finally hooks up with WW; someone who he can potentially spend the rest of his life with.

I don't think Lois is bitchy, in a bad way. Some men like that sort of thing. It keeps them on their toes and shows that the lady has spirit. Besides, it's Superman who is in a relationship with her. I mean he's bulletproof. I doubt a few comments for Lois is gonna hurt him much. Maybe a strong guy needs a strong lady. Also, even though I haven't seen this portrayed in Superman media, it's also possible that Superman prefers the wild horse which he can tame, over the horse that has already been tamed. Some people like a challenge, no offense to any women on the board.

[Mat001]

"Kingdom Come" is not Clark's future. Not on New Earth, it isn't. It's not the one that will come to pass. And as shown in previous stories, he doesn't love Diana the same way that he does Lois. Lois on Earth-22 did not die of old age, she was murdered by the Joker. And as we know, Clark Kent will die of old age as well.

[Xybernauts]

"Kingdom Come" is not Clark's future. Not on New Earth, it isn't. It's not the one that will come to pass. And as shown in previous stories, he doesn't love Diana the same way that he does Lois. Lois on Earth-22 did not die of old age, she was murdered by the Joker. And as we know, Clark Kent will die of old age as well.
I realize Kingdom Come isn't part on New Earth, but to me it's the perfect embodiment of how Superman's romantic life should develop over time. It opens up a place for each woman, allowing Superman the opportunity to have a relationship with each without straying from his character. I was simply using Kingdom Come as an example to illustrate my point.

Since were on the subject, what if DC comics killed off Lois Lane? Would that be tolerable? It would give Superman comics the chance to start up alot of new potential plots. Including a chance to see the differences between how Superman copes with tragedy vs. how Batman copes. We could see how different they are or how alike. We could also get to see Wonder Woman get the chance to develop a more serious relationship with Superman. I like Lois Lane's character, but at the same time her death would open up alot of new doors in Superman comics.

[Spiffy]

We could also get to see Wonder Woman get the chance to develop a more serious relationship with Superman. I like Lois Lane's character, but at the same time her death would open up alot of new doors in Superman comics.
To me, Wonder Woman having a relationship with Superman is kind of an icky scenario. I know its been the basis of some fine Elseworld's/alternate Earth stories, but it just doesn't FEEL right. To me, it kind of steals Wondy's thunder and makes hers into a subset of another mythos.

Almost better they pair her with Batman (although not MUCH better), since at least the "power dynamic" in that relationship with be really unusual, and thus entertaining.

[Mat001]

Since were on the subject, what if DC comics killed off Lois Lane? Would that be tolerable? It would give Superman comics the chance to start up alot of new potential plots. Including a chance to see the differences between how Superman copes with tragedy vs. how Batman copes. We could see how different they are or how alike. We could also get to see Wonder Woman get the chance to develop a more serious relationship with Superman. I like Lois Lane's character, but at the same time her death would open up alot of new doors in Superman comics.

No, it wouldn't be tolerable. It'd be "One More Day" all over again.

[carabas]

And as we know, Clark Kent will die of old age as well.Maybe, but not for the next 100.000 years or so, according to DC One Million.

[ZT4]

To me, Wonder Woman having a relationship with Superman is kind of an icky scenario. I know its been the basis of some fine Elseworld's/alternate Earth stories, but it just doesn't FEEL right. To me, it kind of steals Wondy's thunder and makes hers into a subset of another mythos.

Almost better they pair her with Batman (although not MUCH better), since at least the "power dynamic" in that relationship with be really unusual, and thus entertaining.

Dianah's had some nice "geekish" interests in the past, but that's a real problem, when you realize she could conceivably be better off with the "boy next door" in Clark, the person she's had a marmite relationship with in Bats, the crush that Arthur has, or whenever she's with one of those geekier types

Three of 'em make her part of another package, and the other option just makes her a nerd's fantasy...yet for some reason, I just can never see her with a "warrior type" (kind of why I don't buy her current engagement)

[Mat001]

Maybe, but not for the next 100.000 years or so, according to DC One Million.

Except that future is one possible future. "Death: Where Is Thy Sting?" says that Superman isn't immortal and thus he cannot live to the 853rd century.

[lazlo_toth]

I think the key to Lois is understanding that Superman loves Lois Lane because she's so human, warts and all. Lois Lane is not supposed to be a perfect goddess/warrior princess like Wonder Woman. She's supposed to be flawed and neurotic, cocky and over-bearing, emotionally needy yet fiercely independent.

In short, Lois Lane is all the strengths and weaknesses of humanity in microcosm.

That said, losing the Betty & Veronica angle by having Superman marry Lois was a mistake to do in the regular comics continuity. I liked Superman being stuck between choosing between All-American Girl Next Door Lana Lang and Spunky City Gal Lois Lane.


You know, I understand why you would feel that way, but I respectfully disagree. After close to 60 years of Superman being basically Archie with superpowers (would that make Jimmy Olsen the Jughead analogue?), I thought his marrying Lois was actually a good idea. I don't feel that it's limited the character in any way (certainly less than being married limited Spider-Man, and I was in no way a proponent of One More Day), and I see Lois Lane as one of the only women who could actually hold her own in a relationship with one of the most insanely powerful beings to ever walk the planet. I don't think Superman being married precludes the possibility of other women coming in and causing friction; Chuck Austen of all people actually had an interesting plotline where Lana Lang was almost uncharacterisitically assertive in going after Clark, basically saying that Lois is a bitch who is never there on those few occasions when he might actually need her. And there's also been several instances of obvious sexual tension between him and Wonder Woman. It's not like he's going to nail either one of them, but it is refreshing that, after so many decades of Superman basically being a 2D cardboard cutout of a character, he has to grapple with difficult emotional issues, and that they occasionally cause him a bit of existential distress (as opposed to the Weisinger days where Superman not only always did the right thing, but knew instinctively what the right thing to do was, without having to think about it, and never seemed to endure so much as a picosecond of temptation).

[carabas]

Except that future is one possible future. "Death: Where Is Thy Sting?" says that Superman isn't immortal and thus he cannot live to the 853rd century.
Of course, "Death: Where Is Thy Sting" is a stand alone work from a writer not exactly well known for his DCU work, while "DC One Million" was written by the guy setting much of the DCU's direction.
If both stories can't be canon, it is obvious which of the two takes precedence.

Also, does "Death: Where Is Thy Sting" literally say that age is something he will die off, or just that it is possible for him to die of various causes (diseases, decapitation, green K readiation, magic, or indeed age by 80 years of prolonged exposion to a red sun), leaving the option of settng up shop in the sun and living to be well over 80.000 years with barely aging a day on the table?

[Mat001]

The thing is that Morrison along with Mark Waid and Karl Kessel were getting ready to introduce Hypertime. In fact, "The Kingdom" mini-series formally introduced Hypertime and said that there were multiple futures and timelines and other Earths. That both the "Kingdom Come" and "DC 1 Million" futures were only possible ones and not definative. This would all lead to "Hyper Crisis", but then things fell through and later, Morrison reworked his story into "Final Crisis" and the Multiverse was brought back in "Infinite Crisis" and "52". And as we've seen in "Final Crisis: Legion Of 3 Worlds", "The Lightning Saga" and "Superman & The Legion Of Super-Heroes", there are three different future timelines. Three different Legions. The Post "Zero Hour" Legion was connected to "DC 1 Million", the other two aren't. This further illustrates that "DC 1 Million" is a possible future. We also have ample evidence that Superman is dead and that there are no decendents as shown in every Legion book and currently, he's not used to help against Superboy-Prime.

Of course, "Death: Where Is Thy Sting" is a stand alone work from a writer not exactly well known for his DCU work,

J.M. DeMatties who co-wrote the Justice League books for five years, did two mini-series, a couple of arcs for Legends Of The Dark Knight and the Batman/Spider-Man crossovers. Plus a stint on Adventures of Superman. So, he was more than up to the task in terms of experience.

As to the story, I hadn't read it, but I had recalled that it stated that it confirmed that Superman could die and was not immortal. As it is, we know that Superman can die. That he can age.

[carabas]

The thing is that Morrison along with Mark Waid and Karl Kessel were getting ready to introduce Hypertime. In fact, "The Kingdom" mini-series formally introduced Hypertime and said that there were multiple futures and timelines and other Earths. That both the "Kingdom Come" and "DC 1 Million" futures were only possible ones and not definative.Hypertime was a backdoor to a multiverse of sorts, an did not actually have anything to do with timetravel and the future.
and Kingdom Come was never a possible future but an Elseworlds story, while DC was definitely the in-canon future of the DCU.

This further illustrates that "DC 1 Million" is a possible future. We also have ample evidence that Superman is dead and that there are no decendents as shown in every Legion book and currently, he's not used to help against Superboy-Prime.Is there ample evidence that it is old age that he died off?
Because if Superman ages normally, then DC One Million isn't even a possible future.

J.M. DeMatties who co-wrote the Justice League books for five years, did two mini-series, a couple of arcs for Legends Of The Dark Knight and the Batman/Spider-Man crossovers. Plus a stint on Adventures of Superman. So, he was more than up to the task in terms of experience.So that is a JLI run that is treated like a redheaded stepchild, a bunch on non-canonical stories, and a, Action comics run.
I didn't say anything about his experience, I said that when things are said about what is and isn't true about Superman, Morrison will likely trump DeMatties.


As to the story, I hadn't read it, but I had recalled that it stated that it confirmed that Superman could die and was not immortal. As it is, we know that Superman can die. That he can age.Well, obviously he can die. But whthere or not old age is one of the things he can die off is much more debatable. Especially if he chooses to spend a couple of millenia in the core of the sun.

[Mat001]

Hypertime was a backdoor to a multiverse of sorts, an did not actually have anything to do with timetravel and the future.
and Kingdom Come was never a possible future but an Elseworlds story, while DC was definitely the in-canon future of the DCU.

Except I recall it being said that "Kingdom Come" and "DC 1 Million" were both being stated as possible futures. KC was an Elseworlds story, but that changed when Hypertime and the new Multiverse came about.

Is there ample evidence that it is old age that he died off?
Because if Superman ages normally, then DC One Million isn't even a possible future.

Well, the fact that in "Superman & The Legion Of Super-Heroes", he doesn't show up to tell the people of Earth he is Kryptonian is indictive of his not being alive. Also, when I say it is a possible future, I refer to the fact that in one version of Earth, he can live that long. But on New Earth, that is not the case.

So that is a JLI run that is treated like a redheaded stepchild, a bunch on non-canonical stories, and a, Action comics run.
I didn't say anything about his experience, I said that when things are said about what is and isn't true about Superman, Morrison will likely trump DeMatties.

JLI hasn't been treated like a redhead stepchild. The books are getting collected, we had the two mini-series and many fans still enjoy it. Even those who work at DC do. And as to Morrison, he isn't the definiative resource because you have the other writers who can trump him. Like Geoff Johns has been for the last year and a half.

Well, obviously he can die. But whthere or not old age is one of the things he can die off is much more debatable. Especially if he chooses to spend a couple of millenia in the core of the sun.

We don't even know if that is true. All we have is a potential future and an out of continuity tale saying that he'll live forever under a yellow sun.

[carabas]

This is silly. Your entire argument hinches on Kingdom Come being a possible canon future rather than an Elseworld story (or an alternate Earth now), and on DC One Million being out of continuity after Onfinite Crisis.

[mgs]

I like her fussy attitude and her long, black hair! :)

[J. Robb]

So that is a JLI run that is treated like a redheaded stepchild,
It gets treated like a hit list.

[Mat001]

This is silly. Your entire argument hinches on Kingdom Come being a possible canon future rather than an Elseworld story (or an alternate Earth now), and on DC One Million being out of continuity after Onfinite Crisis.

No, that's not what I've been saying. I've said that "DC 1 Million" is a possible future, but not one that will come to pass. "Kingdom Come" is Earth-22 and as we've seen, it won't happen the same way on New Earth. And as the three Legions have shown us, nothing is set about the future other than there are three Legions. One inspired by Superman and who has been their ally for years. One where they were inspired by all heroes of the late 20th/early 21st century which Kon-El was a member and Superman worked with a couple of times. And one that believed that the heroes and villains were myths, until recently. A version where Supergirl was a member. And that they have authority issues with adults. Geoff Johns, Mark Waid and Jim Shooter have contradicted Grant Morrison.

[carabas]

No, that's not what I've been saying. I've said that "DC 1 Million" is a possible future, but not one that will come to pass.If Superman can die of old age like any human, then DC One Million obviously is not even remotely a possible future.

And you still refuse to address my main point: even if Superman is dead(ish) in the Legion's era, what makes you think that it was old age that did him in, rather than going out fighting some cosmic threat or something more properly heroic?

[Xybernauts]

I think it's safe to say there is no official take specifying whether or not Superman is immortal or mortal. For example, the immortals of the Highlander franchise are immortal, but at the same time can be killed if there heads are chopped off.

Hypertime was a backdoor to a multiverse of sorts, an did not actually have anything to do with timetravel and the future.
and Kingdom Come was never a possible future but an Elseworlds story, while DC was definitely the in-canon future of the DCU.


According to the DC Hypertime wiki


Hypertime is a fictional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiction) concept presented in the 1999 DC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Comics) comic book series The Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kingdom_(comic)), both a catch-all explanation for any continuity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_(fiction)) discrepancies in DC Universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Universe) stories and a variation or superset (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superset) of the Multiverse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_(DC_Comics)) that existed before Crisis on Infinite Earths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_on_Infinite_Earths).

The basic premise of the idea was summed up by writer Mark Waid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Waid) as, "It's all true." It presumes that all of the stories ever told about (for example) Superman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman) are equally valid stories. Despite overt contradictions between the versions of the character (and his adventures, supporting characters, and setting) that appeared in the late 1930s and 1940s comics by Joe Shuster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster) and Jerry Siegel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel), portrayed by George Reeves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Reeves) in the 1950s TV series, depicted in 1960s and 1970s comics drawn by Kurt Schaffenberger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Schaffenberger) or Curt Swan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curt_Swan), portrayed by Christopher Reeve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Reeve) in the 1978 movie and its sequels, written and illustrated by John Byrne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Byrne) in the late 1980s, portrayed by Dean Cain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Cain) in the 1990s TV series Lois and Clark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lois_and_Clark), portrayed by Tom Welling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Welling) in the 2000s TV series Smallville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallville_(TV_series)), or portrayed by Brandon Routh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Routh) in the 2006 movie, no one of these versions supersedes any other as canon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction))....

Hypertime is a superdimensional construct which—under very limited circumstances (prescribed by editors in the real world, and by various in-story rules within the DC Universe itself)— can allow versions of characters from one continuity to interact with versions from another....

In July 2005, in promotional talks at the San Diego Comic-Con (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Comic-Con) DC Executive Editor Dan DiDio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_DiDio) effectively disavowed the concept of Hypertime, stating it would no longer be used in future DCU titles.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertime_(comics)#cite_note-0)
The Infinite Crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Crisis) series resolved the continuity problem in a different way, according to DiDio, who in a Newsarama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsarama) interview said "The great part about Crisis is that all mistakes and retcons are time anomalies."[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertime_(comics)#cite_note-1) DiDio's solution, as seen in the pages of Infinite Crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Crisis), postulates reality-changing "continuity waves", generated by Superboy-Prime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_Prime) punching the walls of his extradimensional prison.




For the whole wiki goto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertime_(comics)

So apparently hypertime is alittle bit of everything.

Based on what is said, if hypertime is still a valid plot device in the DC universe, all comics, both Elseworld, Allstar, Death: Where is thy Sting, and Earth Two, etc. are valid. Apparently one might surmise that Superman evolves differently in different timelines. In one timeline he becomes immortal and in another doesn't. Is there any comic that actually shows Superman dying of old age?

Is there ample evidence that it is old age that he died off?
Because if Superman ages normally, then DC One Million isn't even a possible future.


And you still refuse to address my main point: even if Superman is dead(ish) in the Legion's era, what makes you think that it was old age that did him in, rather than going out fighting some cosmic threat or something more properly heroic?

That's a good question, is there any comic that actually shows Superman dying of old age? If not then we should assume the Superman is like a Highlander immortal. It doesn't mean he can't die, it just means he doesn't die of old age.

Well, obviously he can die. But whthere or not old age is one of the things he can die off is much more debatable. Especially if he chooses to spend a couple of millenia in the core of the sun.

I agree with this view. I also prefer it.

Well, the fact that in "Superman & The Legion Of Super-Heroes", he doesn't show up to tell the people of Earth he is Kryptonian is indictive of his not being alive. Also, when I say it is a possible future, I refer to the fact that in one version of Earth, he can live that long. But on New Earth, that is not the case.


It could mean alot of things. Unless they specify he's not alive we shouldn't assume anything. He could be in another place in space and time for example. Matt001, do you prefer the version of Superman that's mortal?

[Mat001]

It's not what I perfer. It's what is. Superman is not alive in the Legion timeline, nor are any future decendents present in any Legion future. I'm sorry to say it, but "DC 1 Million" hasn't been in continuity for a long time.

If Superman can die of old age like any human, then DC One Million obviously is not even remotely a possible future.

A possible future of a Superman from the Multiverse.

And you still refuse to address my main point: even if Superman is dead(ish) in the Legion's era, what makes you think that it was old age that did him in, rather than going out fighting some cosmic threat or something more properly heroic?

Dying of old age is more reasonable then dying from Doomsday or Lex Luthor. Why does he have to die a heroic death? Why can't he die in his own bed, like many people tend to do? Does he have to die saving the world?

[Duy]

Dying of old age is more reasonable then dying from Doomsday or Lex Luthor. Why does he have to die a heroic death? Why can't he die in his own bed, like many people tend to do? Does he have to die saving the world?

Yes, because that's the mythic way.

[carabas]

A possible future of a Superman from the Multiverse.So basically you're saying that at some point Superman's physiology undewent a very radical alteration, but nobody noticed this?

[Mat001]

So basically you're saying that at some point Superman's physiology undewent a very radical alteration, but nobody noticed this?

No, that the Superman of "DC 1 Million" is from a Krypton where under a yellow sun, he'd live a long time. Remember, not every Earth in the Multiverse is the same. The people are different. Look at Ultraman from Earth-3 and the one from the Anti-Matter Universe. Both are different, dramatically so. Earth-2 Krypton is different from New Earth Krypton. Earth-30 Superman isn't even Kryptonian. He's an Earthling from the far future, a decendent of Lex Luthor. Earth-15 gave us a Krypton like New Earth, but it had Zod as the champion of Earth rather than Kal-El. Earth-21 is based off both the Golden and Silver Age versions of Krypton. Kryptonian biology is different in the Multiverse.

[carabas]

The Superman from DC One Million is the same one we have now appearing in New Krypton.

[Mat001]

The Superman from DC One Million is the same one we have now appearing in New Krypton.

Not really. Not with the Multiverse back. We don't know that he is the New Earth Superman and not from another Earth, like Earth-49. In case you forgot, a lot of Superman's history has changed. Not every story published from 1986 on through 2006 is still in continuity.

[lokisedge]

I kinda like lois because she's the first bona fide bitchy love interest to the main hero which spawned a bunch of tributes and cliche's after that. Like Goku and Chi Chi, Hana and Yuji, Haruhi and Kyon etc etc. Lois herself completes SuperMan as a female counter part to Clarks Heroics and Courage and the one who keeps him in check, but also respects Clark for who he is.

[celticguy]

She provides a balance to Lex Luthor. Both are tops in their fields and ambitious but one is ethical and one is not.

[AlistairCrane]

She's a smart, strong female character who kicks a whole lot of ass. She's the perfect woman in many ways because she doesn't allow herself to get walked on--she's a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist! Lois is also a great foil for Clark Kent as well as a great wife for him.

[stelok]

There is little I like about Lois Lane. Superman doesn't need Lois any more than Spidey needs Mary Jane.

Pre-crisis Steve Trevor used to be the default permanent love interest of Wonder Woman.

I still don't know who is Batman's foremost and default woman. Vicki? Talia? Catwoman? Batwoman?

[pitbull in a skirt]

There is nothing i like about her. I think Superman has to be masochist to marry a bitchy woman like her.

The only Lois i like is the "smallville version", she is kinda cute.

Lois on Smallville is the bitchiest Lois there is by far. But you said its because she's kind of cute, so maybe I should never mind that. She's likable sometimes, but the SV writers really over do it when they try to make her witty and snarky.

Any interpretation where she's crazy about Superman while treating Clark like crap is impossible for me to like. She comes off as nothing more than the ultimate Gold Digger.

I couldn't stand the Donner version. She was bitchy and quite frankly, I didn't find her pretty enough to be Superman's gal. When Lana showed up in Part III it made her look even worse.

The dynamic between Lois and Clark on 'Lois and Clark' was better. She'd still put him down, but there was an underlying sexual tension between them. Of course, that was back before Teri Hatcher had actually learned how to act, so I didn't think whole lot of the character, but she was better than Kidder.

TAS Lois was alright, even though she seemed to falling from something every other episode.

I'm really liking Lois on this season of Smallville, though I haven't seen much of her previously. There's a nice spin on their dynamic where it's apparent that she already loves whereas he might just be starting to fall for her.

Her acting as Lois Lane was fine (more than fine, actually).



Personally, depicting Lois more in short skirts and high heels probably won't hurt either...
:biggrin:

You'll probably like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTh2RXcURU8) :biggrin:

I like her fussy attitude and her long, black hair! :)

I prefer the bob cut myself. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/floetic_justice/lac/TopCopy803.jpg

[cpahl2000]

You'll probably like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTh2RXcURU8) :biggrin:



I prefer the bob cut myself. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/floetic_justice/lac/TopCopy803.jpg



Me too.:tongue: