Superman's Return to FC - (SPOILERS)

[kingsyn]

I was thinking, when superman comes back won't he have to face the new female furies (Batwoman, Wonder Woman, etc) to get at darkseid. They are his bodyguards, right?

Who else thinks that would be frickin' sweet!

[Samuraixsithlord]

they aren't his bodyguards. Darkseid doesn't need bodyguards. The furies are an elite group of soldiers trained by Granny Goodness.

Superman will probably go after Darkseid himself

[Slyfer]

The penultimate battle between Darkseid and Superman

[king911]

where is superman again? 30th century?

[rwe1138]

where is superman again? 30th century?

Either there or in the Multiverse. Or both. Or neither. Honestly, I'm not sure.

[Magneto Rocks]

He's in the Multiverse, as seen in "Superman Beyond".

Honestly, Legion of Three Worlds has yet to demonstrate anything remotely resembling a Final Crisis tie-in, so it's best to assume it occurs before FC 1 until something shows otherwise.

[Jack Tango]

The penultimate battle between Darkseid and Superman

And after the second-to-last battle, will we get the final battle?

[Sean Walsh]

Either there or in the Multiverse. Or both. Or neither. Honestly, I'm not sure.

He is everywhere.......and nowhere. AT THE SAME TIME. :eek:

[Buried Alien]

And after the second-to-last battle, will we get the final battle?

Actually, I wonder if Morrison isn't planning to pull a switch and have Superman vs. Darkseid as the penultimate battle of FINAL CRISIS to set the stage for the final battle between Darkseid and...Barry Allen.

Up to now, Darkseid has never singled out the Flash as THE hero who posed the greatest threat to him. That's always been Superman. This time, maybe it'll be the Flash (Barry).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Kevinroc]

Actually, I wonder if Morrison isn't planning to pull a switch and have Superman vs. Darkseid as the penultimate battle of FINAL CRISIS to set the stage for the final battle between Darkseid and...Barry Allen.

Up to know, Darkseid has never singled out the Flash as THE hero who posed the greatest threat to him. That's always been Superman. This time, maybe it'll be the Flash (Barry).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Barry's opposite strikes me as being Libra. Libra is working as the one that brings the bad guys together and motivates them but he is not the big villain. Likewise, Barry epitomizes hope but he's still in the shadow of Superman (as is pretty much every DC hero).

There has to be a reason Superman was taken out of the picture.

[thehod]

He's in the Multiverse, as seen in "Superman Beyond".

Honestly, Legion of Three Worlds has yet to demonstrate anything remotely resembling a Final Crisis tie-in, so it's best to assume it occurs before FC 1 until something shows otherwise.

I haven't read Superman Beyond, so I can't speak for that series, but if one were only readin Final Crisis, wouldn't Superman still be at the hospital keeping Lois alive with his heat vision?

[drinkblatzbeer]

well, if only reading FC, yes one would assume...but superman beyond does answer that...

having read FC, submit, beyond, the issues of LO3W and Revelations thusfar, I think grant considers only
his penned books to be part of the bigger picture...

[Magneto Rocks]

I haven't read Superman Beyond, so I can't speak for that series, but if one were only readin Final Crisis, wouldn't Superman still be at the hospital keeping Lois alive with his heat vision?

Nope, in Final Crisis #3 a Monitor approached him to offer him an 'ultimate chance to save Lois' if he left with her now. That's the last he was seen..

having read FC, submit, beyond, the issues of LO3W and Revelations thusfar, I think grant considers only
his penned books to be part of the bigger picture

Actually, from having read all of those, I think only Grant-penned books (And Revelations to a degree), ARE the bigger picture. Thus far we've had six Johns-penned Final Crisis issues and every single one of them has basically been a story with zip all connection to Final Crisis told in a tie-in just to raise sales- several of them just to promote a Geoff Johns book.

[Samuraixsithlord]

Honestly, Legion of Three Worlds has yet to demonstrate anything remotely resembling a Final Crisis tie-in, so it's best to assume it occurs before FC 1 until something shows otherwise.

maybe the "time trapper" will be revealed to be Darkseid from the Great Darkness saga

[4thHorseman]

Either there or in the Multiverse. Or both. Or neither. Honestly, I'm not sure.

Well, in Legion of 3 Worlds, it's a time traveling story, so they can place him smack dab where he left off without having any problem continuity wise. With the multiverse, we don't know how long he's there since we're unsure of the time differences when you travel it. However, the Monitor lady had stopped time, so who knows.

And most of these series are tied to FC, even if it hasn't been done yet. Rogues Revenge focused on Libra trying to bring the Rogues in for a battle against Barry Allen (who libra seemed to know returned), Legion of 3 will more than likely tie in near the end, Revelations is occuring after the ALE is unleashed. The links are there, just not as major as some might have hoped.

[thehod]

Nope, in Final Crisis #3 a Monitor approached him to offer him an 'ultimate chance to save Lois' if he left with her now. That's the last he was seen.

Good point. I'd forgotten about that part.

[Samuraixsithlord]

I haven't read Superman Beyond, so I can't speak for that series, but if one were only readin Final Crisis, wouldn't Superman still be at the hospital keeping Lois alive with his heat vision?

Superman's stuck in Limbo confronting the true threat to the multiverse Mandrakk the Dark Monitor

[heffison]

Superman's stuck in Limbo confronting the true threat to the multiverse Mandrakk the Dark Monitor

I'm hoping Mandrakk shows up in Final Crisis to knock Darkseid out of the way and be the real villian in that book. Supposedly Darkseid's actions are destroying the multiverse (does that mean he cannot possibly ever succeed in his dreams of total conquest?) and a monitor-level being might be in a position to squash Darkseid, and just maybe wipe out all of the multiverse and start over. If Superman can't stop him.

What seems odd is that Superman:Beyond looks like it might be setting up some majorly meta "rewrite the Story" method of resolving the Crisis, while in Final Crisis it looks more like we would get an "in-story" solution. I'd prefer the solutions to come from within the characters of the DCU itself, but...this is Morrison, after all. We'll see. Eventually.

[Mat001]

I'm hoping Mandrakk shows up in Final Crisis to knock Darkseid out of the way and be the real villian in that book. Supposedly Darkseid's actions are destroying the multiverse (does that mean he cannot possibly ever succeed in his dreams of total conquest?) and a monitor-level being might be in a position to squash Darkseid, and just maybe wipe out all of the multiverse and start over. If Superman can't stop him.

Mandrakk is set to appear in FC #6.

[Sean Walsh]

I'd prefer the solutions to come from within the characters of the DCU itself, but...this is Morrison, after all. We'll see. Eventually.

So by that logic, Final Crisis will end however the overwhelming opinion of the reading audience literally shapes the art and words on the comic page...

Doug Mahnke: "And to think, Grant told me to draw Superman kicking Darkseid and Mandrakk in the groins to end the whole story. Who knew?!"

[berk]

Superman's stuck in Limbo confronting the true threat to the multiverse Mandrakk the Dark MonitorThehod has a point, though: in Superman Beyond I got the impression that the Monitor froze time so that Superman could leave Lois without letting her heart stop and presumably return at the very same moment, so to everyone else it would look like Kent never left her bedside. But if Superman's listed by the JLA as missing, that can't be right - unless they don't know that Kent is Superman?

[cpahl2000]

Actually, I wonder if Morrison isn't planning to pull a switch and have Superman vs. Darkseid as the penultimate battle of FINAL CRISIS to set the stage for the final battle between Darkseid and...Barry Allen.

Up to now, Darkseid has never singled out the Flash as THE hero who posed the greatest threat to him. That's always been Superman. This time, maybe it'll be the Flash (Barry).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)


I´d like to see a battle between Darkseid and Barry, would be great, but I think will be between Superman and Darkseid.

[Mat001]

Thehod has a point, though: in Superman Beyond I got the impression that the Monitor froze time so that Superman could leave Lois without letting her heart stop and presumably return at the very same moment, so to everyone else it would look like Kent never left her bedside. But if Superman's listed by the JLA as missing, that can't be right - unless they don't know that Kent is Superman?

No, the JSA knows Clark is Superman. They list him as M.I.A. because time is frozen around Lois, but not the whole world. Lois is frozen outside the normal preception of time. Meaning the world is moving on, but in the hospital, it's not moving.

[Magneto Rocks]

Superman's stuck in Limbo confronting the true threat to the multiverse Mandrakk the Dark Monitor

Calling him 'the true threat' isn't quite accurate. As far as we know right now, the multiverse would still be quite dead if Darkseid lived and Mandrakk fell, so I wouldn't go that far....

[Samuraixsithlord]

Calling him 'the true threat' isn't quite accurate. As far as we know right now, the multiverse would still be quite dead if Darkseid lived and Mandrakk fell, so I wouldn't go that far....

from what we've seen about Mandrakk I'd say he's a bigger fish then Darkseid.

[PastePotPete]

I´d like to see a battle between Darkseid and Barry, would be great, but I think will be between Superman and Darkseid.

I wouldn't be so sure. They're setting Barry up to be the big hero here. In another thread, a poster (Oh, it was definitely Buried Allen) talked about how Morrison has set Barry up as the spark of science, ingenuity and hope in this horrible new medieval world Darkseid has wrought. And he also pointed out that Barry is able to cure a human of the effects of anti-life. So who better to go up against Darkseid than a Flash?

I know that's what I want to see.

[carabas]

Somehow I am not really expecting much in the way of a big one on one fight at the end between Darkseid and anyone.
I reckon the conclusion will be a bit more imaginative than that.

Also, Morrison has never used Superman as the supreme buttkicker ex machina in any of his stories. Not even when his powers were exponentially amplified in All Star superman.

[Slyfer]

you know what's hilarious most people think Superman will be fighting Darkseid, we seem to be forgetting about the Monitor

[Sean Walsh]

I'm thinking the final battles will be Superman vs. Mandrakk and Barry vs. Darkseid/ALE - the catch in the latter one being that it's not actually a physical fight, since (if Grant's sticking to the original intent of the character) Kirby's Darkseid was never about physical confrontations.

[deathstroketerm]

I think you'll see supes in the second to last or the last book of final crisis. Dude's Superman so he can be all over the place. But he has his own business going on in supes, supergirl, action. NEW KRYPTON! So doubt you are going to see him. Seen Batman in those comics lately? Didn't think so. That's why this crisis is (not stated by me), but many a diehard and mild mannered comic fan is for the guy who is hardcore DC! the guy who read death of the new gods and all that business.

[deathstroketerm]

they're trying to do with barry that they did with hal jordan. Rebirth is the title, friends. If it sells, bye bye Wally, if not hello stupid red headed jack-butt who's been procreating and acting like he's a real jla. Goodbye Wally. As Deathstroke says "New costume. Same old mistakes." you suck, wally and so do your sales. If anything god comes from Final Crisis, it's Wally West R.I.P.

[deathstroketerm]

they're trying to do with barry that they did with hal jordan. Rebirth is the title, friends. If it sells, bye bye Wally, if not hello stupid red headed jack-butt who's been procreating and acting like he's a real jla. Goodbye Wally. As Deathstroke says "New costume. Same old mistakes." you suck, wally and so do your sales. If anything god comes from Final Crisis, it's Wally West R.I.P.

[berk]

I'm thinking the final battles will be Superman vs. Mandrakk and Barry vs. Darkseid/ALE - the catch in the latter one being that it's not actually a physical fight, since (if Grant's sticking to the original intent of the character) Kirby's Darkseid was never about physical confrontations.I really don't expect any sort of one on one or even one against many battle involving Darkseid, at least not in an explicit sense. Perhaps something more akin to the Turpin episode in the latest issue, where it's presented more as an inner struggle; IOW, after Turpin's submission, we don't get any of the usual superhero imagery of Darkseid crowing in triumph, fists in the air, ranting about his greatness. None of which was part of Kirby's Darkseid, of course, but that's the kind of thing you'd usually see from other writers. Morrison's done a great job of avoiding that so far, and I hope he continues. Of course, so far we haven't really seen much of his Darkseid in FC, apart from a brief scene when he's still possessing the gangster, so next issue will be crucial for me as far as this aspect of the series is concerned.

[Sean Walsh]

they're trying to do with barry that they did with hal jordan. Rebirth is the title, friends. If it sells, bye bye Wally, if not hello stupid red headed jack-butt who's been procreating and acting like he's a real jla. Goodbye Wally. As Deathstroke says "New costume. Same old mistakes." you suck, wally and so do your sales. If anything god comes from Final Crisis, it's Wally West R.I.P.

.....weren't people saying the same exact thing about Kyle when Hal came back?

4 years later......he's alive and well and regularly appearing in GLC.

[heffison]

you know what's hilarious most people think Superman will be fighting Darkseid, we seem to be forgetting about the Monitor

The Dark Monitor, or the one stuck on New Earth without his memory (Twix Yucatan or something)? Those two could end up being the final battle, after Superman and Barry have cleaned up the lesser problems. Or after they fail, and evil really has won. Reality gets so screwed up, that a Monitor-level being wants to reboot. And DiDio did recently say that early next year, most of the monthlies would feature origin stories, so we will have "what’s essential to know" on the lead characters. New essentials for characters we already know? Sounds like some kind of major overhaul.

I don't know, with Morrison addressing "Story" in Superman:Beyond, the final battle might end up being a bunch of readers going up against Dan DiDio over the future of the DCU. The winner, somehow, will be Geoff Johns.

[Samuraixsithlord]

I've got no problem with Superman getting a physical victory in on Darkseid (Darkseid isn't a physical supervillian like Doomsday, he's a mastermind like Luther). So if Superman beats Darkseid in a fight after a tight matchup i'm not going to cry about it.

[kingsyn]

So its Final crisis #5 now, and WW, batwoman, etc have'nt been cured of the ALE (if i remember correctly). So i'll go back to my original question, does anyone think superman will have to face them? Who else can?

I hope not, cause i have a feeling he'll be made to look like a wimp of something. Mostly because he does'nt want to hurt them or something. :rolleyes:

Thorghts.

[joint venture]

So its Final crisis #5 now, and WW, batwoman, etc have'nt been cured of the ALE (if i remember correctly). So i'll go back to my original question, does anyone think superman will have to face them? Who else can?

I hope not, cause i have a feeling he'll be made to look like a wimp of something. Mostly because he does'nt want to hurt them or something. :rolleyes:

Thoughts.

In this issue we see Wonder Woman looking at her Fury mask like she's questioning whether she should continue or not. It doesn't fit right to me that someone so close to the Olympian Gods or even Donna Troy who was staged as a goddess in Infinite Crisis could fall for the Anti-Life Equation. I'd say there's more to it than meets the eye.

Then, the last fight. Why does it have to be Superman and Darkseid? How about Mandrakk coming to pick up what's his so Darkseid does not reboot existence into a new Big Bang with him in the best seat?

Supeman Beyond #2 comes out right before the end. We have FC#6, SB#2, FC#7...that should be enough, heh.

[Samuraixsithlord]

So its Final crisis #5 now, and WW, batwoman, etc have'nt been cured of the ALE (if i remember correctly). So i'll go back to my original question, does anyone think superman will have to face them? Who else can?

I hope not, cause i have a feeling he'll be made to look like a wimp of something. Mostly because he does'nt want to hurt them or something. :rolleyes:

Thorghts.

I'm sure he'll go through them pretty quick. he knows what's at stake, so i don't think he'll hold back. he won't be out to kill anyone, but he'll put them down pretty fast, if he even fights them.

But personally I think it will be Barry who takes out the Furies.

[messi part II]

you know what's hilarious most people think Superman will be fighting Darkseid, we seem to be forgetting about the Monitor

That's because the solicitations say Superman does fight Darkseid.

[mdg1]

And then there's a whole 'nother issue....

[Buried Alien]

Here's where Superman's absence from FINAL CRISIS so far confuses me a little:

Is Superman off doing the stuff we see him doing in SUPERMAN BEYOND, or is he off doing the stuff we see him doing in LEGION OF THREE WORLDS? I'm guessing has has to do both, but in what sequence?

Also, considering what he's up against in FINAL CRISIS, Superman might not be up to the task of defeating Darkseid by himself...not this time. He talked about redeeming Superboy Prime in LEGION OF THREE WORLDS. Can we expect Superman to recruit Superboy Prime to the effort of fighting Darkseid? The heroes could certainly use Prime's power on their side during FINAL CRISIS.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Mat001]

Here's where Superman's absence from FINAL CRISIS so far confuses me a little:

Is Superman off doing the stuff we see him doing in SUPERMAN BEYOND, or is he off doing the stuff we see him doing in LEGION OF THREE WORLDS? I'm guessing has has to do both, but in what sequence?

"Legion Of 3 Worlds" takes place before "Final Crisis". "Beyond" takes place between issues 3 through 6 of FC.

Also, considering what he's up against in FINAL CRISIS, Superman himself might not be up to the task of defeating Darkseid by himself. Not this time. He talked about redeeming Superboy Prime in LEGION OF THREE WORLDS? Can we expect Superman to recruit Superboy Prime to the effort of fighting Darkseid? The heroes could certainly use Prime's power on their side during FINAL CRISIS.

He wants to redeem Superboy-Prime because he cannot be contained willingly for long and he has none of the other weaknesses that Clark has. If he succeeds, he might bounce back and collect him.

[messi part II]

Here's where Superman's absence from FINAL CRISIS so far confuses me a little:

Is Superman off doing the stuff we see him doing in SUPERMAN BEYOND, or is he off doing the stuff we see him doing in LEGION OF THREE WORLDS? I'm guessing has has to do both, but in what sequence?

Also, considering what he's up against in FINAL CRISIS, Superman might not be up to the task of defeating Darkseid by himself...not this time. He talked about redeeming Superboy Prime in LEGION OF THREE WORLDS. Can we expect Superman to recruit Superboy Prime to the effort of fighting Darkseid? The heroes could certainly use Prime's power on their side during FINAL CRISIS.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That's because LO3W has nothing to do with Final Crisis, just a ploy to make a few sales. you know how Didio is.

[Darrell D.]

they're trying to do with barry that they did with hal jordan. Rebirth is the title, friends. If it sells, bye bye Wally, if not hello stupid red headed jack-butt who's been procreating and acting like he's a real jla. Goodbye Wally. As Deathstroke says "New costume. Same old mistakes." you suck, wally and so do your sales. If anything god comes from Final Crisis, it's Wally West R.I.P.
This has to be a fakepost. Or the writer is 12 years old. And mentally challenged.

[wolvie616]

well, im new to dc, but if you ask me, if batman is going to die, and he is tied with supes as the flagship character, i would want darkseid to pummel superman so bad he cant move, and batman fighting darkseid mano a mano, sacrificing himself to kill darkseid once and for all

that is the only way to not underwhelm bats death

but hten again, im new to dc so i dont really know how they roll

can anyone explain why its always supes who saves the day?

[KiFF86]

Superman isn't saving the day here, its going to be Metron, what other new gods get revealed and Monitor guy. I think Sups and Barry Allen are going to take on Darkseid, while the New God's take on the Dark Monitor.

[kingsyn]

well, im new to dc, but if you ask me, if batman is going to die, and he is tied with supes as the flagship character, i would want darkseid to pummel superman so bad he cant move, and batman fighting darkseid mano a mano, sacrificing himself to kill darkseid once and for all

that is the only way to not underwhelm bats death

but hten again, im new to dc so i dont really know how they roll

can anyone explain why its always supes who saves the day?

(I know your're new to DC, so this rant is not really targetted at you! :biggrin: )

Superman is always the one who saves the day (and is expected to do so) because he's the most powerful superhero in the DCU (as admitted by all the JLA, at one time or another).
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of hatred people have against this character, for a reason that completey f**king aludes me.
Do you realize the impact Superman has had on the industry (DC, Marvel, etc ), WW, Captain Marvel and many other characters would'nt of even been invented if it was'nt for Superman.
Its f**king pathetic, and i'm sick of it.
How can anyone say they love comics and not have at least some respect for Superman.
answer = you can't.
(why do you want him beaten up anyway, seriously?)

[Samuraixsithlord]

I think it will be Superman who plays a major hand in stopping Mandrakk.

The whole Superman/Mandrakk Dynamic makes sense if you look at it like this.

The DC Universe began with Superman. The Doomsday Weapon meant to be used to prevent universal destruction, The Statue that The Monitor's spent so long studying, is molded after Superman.

In Infinite Crisis didn't Alex Luther say something like "for some reason everything begins with Superman"

[robbieglenn]

In Infinite Crisis didn't Alex Luther say something like "for some reason everything begins with Superman"


But then he got pwned by the joker