FC what do should i know?

[agentofthebat]

Anyone give me a fast run down for what i need to know about FC? I have been just sticking to the batman stuff.

[theNighteye]

sure if you read the final crisis articles you'll get it cuz its alot to write down.

http://imrambling.com

[Calvin Government]

I would say, to enjoy Final Crisis you need to know this...

Do NOT read or investigate Death of the New Gods.
Do NOT read or investigate Countdown to Final Crisis.

Off the top of my head, I'd say that everything you need to know is spelled out in the series itself, though some of it takes awhile to get to.

That said, be warned: If you do not like books featuring a wide cast of characters, many of which you will be unfamiliar with, there's a good chance you won't like Final Crisis. Many of the main characters are relatively minor players. There's an in-story reason for that, but still...I know some comics fans didn't enjoy it because they didn't care about Dan Turpin or Renee Montoya. There will be a lot of faces you won't recognize playing a pretty big role in things. Just a heads up.

[Dark Master]

Anyone give me a fast run down for what i need to know about FC? I have been just sticking to the batman stuff.

In my opinion you would just be better off to ignore the whole story.

[Dbek23]

I would say, to enjoy Final Crisis you need to know this...

Do NOT read or investigate Death of the New Gods.
Do NOT read or investigate Countdown to Final Crisis.

Off the top of my head, I'd say that everything you need to know is spelled out in the series itself, though some of it takes awhile to get to.

That said, be warned: If you do not like books featuring a wide cast of characters, many of which you will be unfamiliar with, there's a good chance you won't like Final Crisis. Many of the main characters are relatively minor players. There's an in-story reason for that, but still...I know some comics fans didn't enjoy it because they didn't care about Dan Turpin or Renee Montoya. There will be a lot of faces you won't recognize playing a pretty big role in things. Just a heads up.


This is actually very true and a fair statement. I don't care for it so far but this what he posted is exactly why.

[Dark Master]

This is actually very true and a fair statement. I don't care for it so far but this what he posted is exactly why.

I think it would be better to ignore FC and read the other storylines.

[Kiryu]

All you need to understand Final Crisis is Final Crisis #1-onwards. Nothing else.

[Dark Master]

All you need to understand Final Crisis is Final Crisis #1-onwards. Nothing else.

Not true, you won't get who libra is, or what the deal with the Barry Allen Flash is, or basically the whole history of the story thus far (7 Soldiers, etc etc)

[thebhamgunslinger]

All you need to understand Final Crisis is Final Crisis #1-onwards. Nothing else.

This is true. After reading issue 1, I didn't understand it so I put it down. I've just recently delved into the GL mythos and it sparked a new interest for me in FC. I picked up issues 2, 3, and 4 and started over with no problems.

I couldn't give you a line by line blow of what is going on, but I grasp enough of the story to enjoy it and keep reading. In fact, I'm beginning to become more interested in the DCU than I am the MU, and I'm a huge Marvel person.

[Dark Master]

This is true. .

Not really, theres allot of stuff in the first issue alone that deals with very old stories.

[thebhamgunslinger]

Not really, theres allot of stuff in the first issue alone that deals with very old stories.

Read the rest of my post. I clearly stated that I don't know all about those old stories, and yet I'm able to grasp the concept of what is going on in FC.

Agentofthebat, you may have to read it a couple of times like me, but you should be able to get the gist of what is going on and enjoy it just by picking up the main event book.

[Dark Master]

Read the rest of my post. I clearly stated that I don't know all about those old stories, and yet I'm able to grasp the concept of what is going on in FC.
Thats fine for you, but you have to think in terms of others.

[Paul McEnery]

Anyone give me a fast run down for what i need to know about FC? I have been just sticking to the batman stuff.

I guess it assumes a basic familiarity with the characters, but otherwise there's not much need to know anything else.

However, once you've read the issues that are out there, there's a load of annotations at Douglas Wolk's website for any and all "who's that random character at the bottom of page 19" questions.

Also: there are some tie-in issues you might want to care about that are part of the whole story. Two are written by Grant Morrison: Superman Beyond 3D and Submit; and another by Greg Rucka: Resist; and also the lead in Issue Zero aka DC Universe Zero, by Morrison and Johns. But of all of those, only Superman Beyond looks necessary.

[thebhamgunslinger]

Thats fine for you, but you have to think in terms of others.

Why do I have to think in terms of others? I buy my own books, so I worry about whether I enjoy and understand them. If others don't like or understand them, I couldn't really care less.

That's just my opinion.

[Dark Master]

What about someone who picks it up and asks?

Who is this other Flash?
Who are these Monitors?
What happened to the New Gods?
Who is Libra?
What is an Alpha Lantern?
Why is that Monitor being punished?

And thats just for starters

[dotdotdot]

What about someone who picks it up and asks?

Who is this other Flash?
Who are these Monitors?
What happened to the New Gods?
Who is Libra?
What is an Alpha Lantern?
Why is that Monitor being punished?

And thats just for starters

if you name literally any issue ever i can ask a similar number of questions, pretending to be a new reader

[Paul McEnery]

What about someone who picks it up and asks?

Who is this other Flash?
Who are these Monitors?
What happened to the New Gods?
Who is Libra?
What is an Alpha Lantern?
Why is that Monitor being punished?

And thats just for starters

We're told all these things in the book.

[Dark Master]

if you name literally any issue ever i can ask a similar number of questions, pretending to be a new reader

The fact is the question was asked about how much is needed to know to get into it and the fact is allot needs to be known.

[Dark Master]

We're told all these things in the book.

Scans? I don't think so.

[thebhamgunslinger]

What about someone who picks it up and asks?

Who is this other Flash?
Who are these Monitors?
What happened to the New Gods?
Who is Libra?
What is an Alpha Lantern?
Why is that Monitor being punished?

And thats just for starters

I had some of these questions myself. But instead of throwing a temper tantrum and starting a crap load of threads I didn't want to talk about, I got online and researched it for myself.

[dotdotdot]

The fact is the question was asked about how much is needed to know to get into it and the fact is allot needs to be known.

about any issue of a comic ever.

edit: except for issue 1s that don't exist in any continuity

[Dark Master]

I had some of these questions myself. But instead of throwing a temper tantrum and starting a crap load of threads I didn't want to talk about, I got online and researched it for myself.

I never said you should throw a temper tantrum. I was simply pointing out that to understand whats happening you have to do some research.

[thebhamgunslinger]

Agentofthebat,
Don't let Dark Master discourage you, he's just a FC troll that comes here just to tell us how much he hates FC. I'm beginning to think he's actually Bendis myself.

[Dark Master]

Agentofthebat,
he's just a FC troll
^ Irony.

And no, I am simply stating that you cannot understand the story without some back reading.

[dotdotdot]

^ Irony.

And no, I am simply stating that you cannot understand the story without some back reading.

dark avengers is thunderbolts 2.0 right?

[Dark Master]

dark avengers is thunderbolts 2.0 right?

I never said anything like that.

[dotdotdot]

I never said anything like that.

bendis if you ever have delays again we're going to shove that "look at what's going on in his book!" comment in your face. great work this year though.

[Dark Master]

bendis if you ever have delays again we're going to shove that "look at what's going on in his book!" comment in your face. great work this year though.

I don't even get what your trying to say, is all you live for trolling?

[Tony Bang]

What about someone who picks it up and asks?

Who is this other Flash?
Who are these Monitors?
What happened to the New Gods?
Who is Libra?
What is an Alpha Lantern?
Why is that Monitor being punished?

And thats just for starters

Flash- explained when he returns in issue two, and a scene with his wife in issue 3

Monitors- Explains who they are and why this are sending that one to Earth at the end of issue.

New Gods- There was a war in Heaven and Darkseid one. Repeated a lot in the first issue

Libra- He is Darkseid's 'Jesus'/prophet on Earth. Explained in issue 0 and 1

Alpha Lanterns- Stated in the first issue that they are the internal affairs officers for the Green Lantern.


I'm enjoying the hell out of Final Crisis. The only DC books I've read in a long time were Jonah Hex and Morrison's. I've had no problem following it without any knowledge of Countdowns or other such nonsense.

[Paul McEnery]

Scans? I don't think so.

That's your problem, and not mine. Still:


Who is this other Flash?
There are six flashes appearing in the book. And most of them have been around for quite a long time. Two are the children of the current Flash, one is Flash villain Professor Zoom. One is the Silver Age Flash. And one is the Flash who died in COIE. All of these pieces of information are given us in the book.

Who are these Monitors?
They are beings at a higher plane of existence who watch over the 52 earths. They appear to have multiplied along with the number of earths, and also developed separate personalities. They are the metaphysical offspring of the original monitor, who appears to have come into existence at the beginning of the universe during an event that is yet to be explained. They are analogous to angels.

What happened to the New Gods?
They died. There was a battle. Darkseid is now incarnating in human bodies. There appears to be nothing left of the good New Gods except the new Mister Miracle.

Who is Libra?
A villain who has returned from the dead and works as Darkseid's intermediary with the Secret Society of Supervillains.

What is an Alpha Lantern?
Internal affairs for the Green Lantern Corps, an interplanetary police force.

Why is that Monitor being punished?
Because he's responsible for allowing his earth to be destroyed.

See? Not so confusing after all.

[Jake V]

Who is this other Flash?
He's Barry Allen (Issue 3: page 11, last panel) who apparently died (Issue 3, page 10, last panel)

Who are these Monitors?
They monitor the multiverse orrery(Issue 1: page 29, panel 3) to ensure it's safety (Issue 1: page 31, top panel)

What happened to the New Gods?
They had a war that Darkseid won (Issue 1: page 25, panel 1)

Who is Libra?
A messenger from Darkseid who offers villains their hearts desire in return for their loyalty (Issue 1: page 21, panels 1 and 2)

What is an Alpha Lantern?
They're "special operations" Green Lanterns (Issue 1: page 17, second panel)

Why is that Monitor being punished?
He failed to avert the destruction of earth 51 (Issue 1: all of page 28, and the first panel of page 29)

[Paul McEnery]

bendis if you ever have delays again we're going to shove that "look at what's going on in his book!" comment in your face. great work this year though.

He's drolly suggesting that all your posts are the work of a mischievous Brian Bendis.

[Dark Master]

That's your problem, and not mine. Still:


Who is this other Flash?
There are six flashes appearing in the book. And most of them have been around for quite a long time. Two are the children of the current Flash, one is Flash villain Professor Zoom. One is the Silver Age Flash. And one is the Flash who died in COIE. All of these pieces of information are given us in the book.

Who are these Monitors?
They are beings at a higher plane of existence who watch over the 52 earths. They appear to have multiplied along with the number of earths, and also developed separate personalities. They are the metaphysical offspring of the original monitor, who appears to have come into existence at the beginning of the universe during an event that is yet to be explained. They are analogous to angels.

What happened to the New Gods?
They died. There was a battle. Darkseid is now incarnating in human bodies. There appears to be nothing left of the good New Gods except the new Mister Miracle.

Who is Libra?
A villain who has returned from the dead and works as Darkseid's intermediary with the Secret Society of Supervillains.

What is an Alpha Lantern?
Internal affairs for the Green Lantern Corps, an interplanetary police force.

Why is that Monitor being punished?
Because he's responsible for allowing his earth to be destroyed.

See? Not so confusing after all.

Yes but those are vauge answers, the story requires back research to understand.

[Paul McEnery]

Yes but those are vauge answers, the story requires back research to understand.

Yeah, see, the point of putting things in spoilers is so as not to ruin the story for other people.

Then again, that's sort of your purpose in life, isn't it.

[Jake V]

Yes but those are vauge answers, the story requires back research to understand.

No it doesn't. I never read the first Crisis, Coutdown, or Death of the New Gods.

I understand it just fine.

[Dark Master]

No it doesn't. I never read the first Crisis, Coutdown, or Death of the New Gods.

I understand it just fine.

Well you need to get over your ego and think beyond yourself.

[Jake V]

Well you need to get over your ego and think beyond yourself.

Me having adequate reading comprehension has nothing to do with my ego.

I just feel sad for people who operate on a lower level.

[Dark Master]

Me having adequate reading comprehension has nothing to do with my ego.

I just feel sad for people who operate on a lower level.

Reading comprehension has nothing to do with it. There are elements in the story that in order for most to understand require some research.

[Jake V]

Reading comprehension has nothing to do with it. There are elements in the story that in order for most to understand require some research.

How is it that I understand what is going on without doing any research?

[Dark Master]

How is it that I understand what is going on without doing any research?

Because you may have actually read the issues related to the story, or you may simply not care about the details.

[Paul McEnery]

How is it that I understand what is going on without doing any research?

You have an adequate brain.

[Tony Bang]

Reading comprehension has nothing to do with it. There are elements in the story that in order for most to understand require some research.


No it doesn't.


I had never seen a Monitor, Alpha Lantern, or a Libra before the zero issue and who they were and their motivations were given to me by the end of the first issue. I didn't unlock some grand code to find it was on the surface of the text.

[Dark Master]

You have an adequate brain.

It has nothing to do with intellect. Some people have read the prevalent information or simply don't care.

[Jake V]

Because you may have actually read the issues related to the story, or you may simply not care about the details.

What details are you having trouble with?

I can answer all your questions using only info from Final Crisis itself.

[dotdotdot]

It has nothing to do with intellect. Some people have read the prevalent information or simply don't care.

i only needed to read FC 1-4
and superman beyond

WHAT A HUGE OVERBLOWN EVENT. 5 issues.

[Dark Master]

What details are you having trouble with?

I can answer all your questions using only info from Final Crisis itself.

I have no problems myself, I have been reading DC since before COIE. Unlike you I think of others.

[Jake V]

I have no problems myself, I have been reading DC since before COIE. Unlike you I think of others.

So why do I understand what's going on in the book better than you do?

[Dark Master]

So why do I understand what's going on in the book better than you do?

You don't I myself understand it fine, I am thinking of others, is that such a foreign concept for you?

[Jake V]

You don't I myself understand it fine, I am thinking of others, is that such a foreign concept for you?

Given that I have read the same amount of material (or less) as these "others" I think I'm in a better position to guesstimate what they'll understand than you.

[Dark Master]

Given that I have read the same amount of material (or less) as these "others" I think I'm in a better position to guesstimate what they'll understand than you.

I have issues going back to the 70's, a new reader with very little exposure to the DCU is going to have to do some research to understand the story plain and simple.

[Jake V]

I have issues going back to the 70's, a new reader with very little exposure to the DCU is going to have to do some research to understand the story plain and simple.

See, the bolded part defines me. I did no research and I understood it just fine.

Why are you assuming that new readers are dumb?

[Dark Master]

See, the bolded part defines me. I did no research and I understood it just fine.

Why are you assuming that new readers are dumb?

It's not a matter of intellect, it's a matter of lack of knowledge.

[Jake V]

It's not a matter of intellect, it's a matter of lack of knowledge.

Ok...

I just proved that a lack of knowledge doesn't impede understanding Final Crisis.

What was the point you were trying to make?

[Dark Master]

Ok...

I just proved that a lack of knowledge doesn't impede understanding Final Crisis.

What was the point you were trying to make?

No you proved you understand. You have yet to prove that your the same as a new reader in knowledge.

[Jake V]

No you proved you understand. You have yet to prove that your the same as a new reader in knowledge.

How exactly do I prove that I haven't read something?

[Dark Master]

How exactly do I prove that I haven't read something?

Thats for you to figure out. I'm not just taking your word for it.

[dotdotdot]

No you proved you understand. You have yet to prove that your the same as a new reader in knowledge.

who are these new readers who don't know anything and who get so upset about it? (they don't really exist and there's no point in sticking up for their interests or judging books based on what these hypothetical people may think)

[Dark Master]

who are these new readers who don't know anything and who get so upset about it? (they don't really exist and there's no point in sticking up for their interests or judging books based on what these hypothetical people may think)

And your back to trolling.

[dotdotdot]

And your back to trolling.

my back is not to trolling

[Dark Master]

my back is not to trolling

Don't you ever want to actually contribute something valid to these threads?

[Tony Bang]

Thats for you to figure out. I'm not just taking your word for it.

Why would anyone in this world lie about not having read a comic?

[Jake V]

Thats for you to figure out. I'm not just taking your word for it.

That just... wow.

Can't say I've encountered this kind of person before.

I think I'm gonna step away for a while. I can't handle this level of insanity.

[Eye in the Sky]

I have not read any DC, ever. Upon hearing of the concept that Final Crisis plays on I became interested. The answers that Jake V posted to those questions Dark Matter asked are enough for me. I will now be able to understand Final Crisis. I will be picking up the trade of Final Crisis, if I can't find the back issues.

[Tony Bang]

I have not read any DC, ever. Upon hearing of the concept that Final Crisis plays on I became interested. The answers that Jake V posted to those questions Dark Matter asked are enough for me. I will now be able to understand Final Crisis. I will be picking up the trade of Final Crisis, if I can't find the back issues.

First you have to prove you've never read any DC comics or you're not considered a new reader

[Dark Master]

That just... wow.

Can't say I've encountered this kind of person before.

I think I'm gonna step away for a while. I can't handle this level of insanity.
Try booze, it will ease your pain.

[Eye in the Sky]

First you have to prove you've never read any DC comics or you're not considered a new reader

Wonder Woman is a black girl right? Looks like Beyonce?

[Dark Master]

Wonder Woman is a black girl right? Looks like Beyonce?

You never know, by the end of FC she just might be.

[Tony Bang]

Wonder Woman is a black girl right? Looks like Beyonce?

If only she was. I would read more Wonder Woman

[Eye in the Sky]

You never know, by the end of FC she just might be.

I was being serious. I read an article on Newsarama that said Beyonce would be cast as Wonder Woman. They wouldn't do this unless she looked like Wonder Woman right?

But this doesn't matter, Jake V's answers were enough, Final Crisis sounds great.

[Dark Master]

I was being serious. I read an article on Newsarama that said Beyonce would be cast as Wonder Woman. They wouldn't do this unless she looked like Wonder Woman right?

But this doesn't matter, Jake V's answers were enough, Final Crisis sounds great.

I'm glad you think it's great, actually reading it my change your mind.

And I could see WW as black.

[Eye in the Sky]

I'm glad you think it's great, actually reading it my change your mind.

And I could see WW as black.

Regardless of what I think about it at the end of reading it, the information that was provided in the previous post is enough for me to start reading Final Crisis, blind.

[Dark Master]

Regardless of what I think about it at the end of reading it, the information that was provided in the previous post is enough for me to start reading Final Crisis, blind.

Download and read the 1st issue and then come back and let us know.

[Eye in the Sky]

Download and read the 1st issue and then come back and let us know.

I'll just buy it. I'm not gonna steal it.

[Dark Master]

I'll just buy it. I'm not gonna steal it.

LOL your not stealing it, I assure you the person your downloading it from is mroe then willing to let you.

[thebhamgunslinger]

LOL your not stealing it, I assure you the person your downloading it from is mroe then willing to let you.

Unless you're downloading it from DC, it's stealing.

[Dbek23]

Actually....FC is or can be a little daunting to someone not familiar with the DCU or comics in general. I'm a Marvel head mostly but I still love my handful of DC books. I'm on and off with them because they hit and miss so infrequently that I don't know what's good and when. But I've never read any of Morrison's JLA or 7 soldiers or alot of historical DCU stuff and I felt like a deer in headlights reading the first issue.

Who is Turpin and why is he so noble?

He's not a hero and I've never heard of him before and they gave you nothing to let a fresh face know about him. I'm slowly picking up the pace now and I'm not a stupid person. My reading and reading comprehension skills are adequate; I'm just not familiar with the DCU which leaves me feeling lost when I read it.

[Dark Master]

Unless you're downloading it from DC, it's stealing.

No, it's not, if i buy a comic and then let someone read it, they aren't stealing.

[Eye in the Sky]

LOL your not stealing it, I assure you the person your downloading it from is mroe then willing to let you.

I assure you, you are wrong and do not understand copyright or trademark laws.

[Dark Master]

I assure you, you are wrong and do not understand copyright or trademark laws.

No I know copyright law in depth, I myself don't consider it stealing. I simply do not see any difference between downloading them or borrowing them from someone in person. Someone still paid for the originating material.

[Eye in the Sky]

No I know copyright law in depth, I myself don't consider it stealing. I simply do not see any difference between downloading them or borrowing them from someone in person. Someone still paid for the originating material.

Just because you don't consider it stealing, doesn't mean it is not stealing.

[Dark Master]

Just because you don't consider it stealing, doesn't mean it is not stealing.

Actually in Canada it's not, as long as you don't make money off of it, you can download or upload all the comics you want.

[Paul McEnery]

Actually....FC is or can be a little daunting to someone not familiar with the DCU or comics in general. I'm a Marvel head mostly but I still love my handful of DC books. I'm on and off with them because they hit and miss so infrequently that I don't know what's good and when. But I've never read any of Morrison's JLA or 7 soldiers or alot of historical DCU stuff and I felt like a deer in headlights reading the first issue.

Who is Turpin and why is he so noble?

He's not a hero and I've never heard of him before and they gave you nothing to let a fresh face know about him. I'm slowly picking up the pace now and I'm not a stupid person. My reading and reading comprehension skills are adequate; I'm just not familiar with the DCU which leaves me feeling lost when I read it.

Interesting point you raise.

See, it seems obvious to me who Turpin is. He's a hard-bitten detective who isn't that impressed by superheroes (even though he's got connections in that community), but will charge into a difficult situation to save a bunch of kids.

What else do you need to know?

So this highlights the interesting point -- and I think it's the same one the Master Debater brought up with his powerpoint list of questions that are answered in the text -- that people seem to need to know every single continuity point about a character in order to feel like they're getting the story.

This, to me, speaks of people being overexposed to bad writing, the overexpository Claremont school where you'll get three pages of referring back to previous stories for every page of advancing the plot.

Personally, I'm pretty happy doing without that. All you need to know about the character during that story is the parts of them relevant to that story. Sure, if you know more about them, it adds resonance. But you don't NEED it.




Since you asked, Turpin's a character introduced in New Gods who went toe-to-toe with Orion and Kalibak out of sheer cussedness. He's often considered to be Kirby's own stand-in. Other appearances you'd have to rely on Wiki for, because I don't know them -- or need to, really.

He's also a sideways reference to Frank Miller's Sin City, having characteristics in common with the detective in That Yellow Bastard, and old man on the verge of death and/or retirement, and hoping to God death comes first, and therefore more than willing to sacrifice himself for the preservation of innocence -- and the prosecution of the guilty.