SUPERMAN #681 - "Haha!"

[Sean Walsh]

A loud "Haha" is what the people on the train with me got when I reached the end of this issue.

Good issue, overall, and bloody nice to see Agent Liberty again.

But that ending.....heehee. I'd be concerned for Supes under normal conditions, but since he basically multiplied by about 100,000, my laugh was for the field day the Kryptonians might be having next week... :wink: :tongue:

Spoiler here:

Here's Doomsday!

[Karl O'Neill]

how was the art? does it mesh well with the special from last week. looking forward to this issue.

[Sean Walsh]

how was the art? does it mesh well with the special from last week. looking forward to this issue.

It's Renato Guedes, who's been doing Robinson's Superman run since it started.

Also, the art for the New Krypton Special was done by like 5 different guys. Guedes did the variant cover for that, and possibly some interior art (I forget). But it looks good, as usual.

[CMBMOOL]

A loud "Haha" is what the people on the train with me got when I reached the end of this issue.

Good issue, overall, and bloody nice to see Agent Liberty again.

But that ending.....heehee. I'd be concerned for Supes under normal conditions, but since he basically multiplied by about 100,000, my laugh was for the field day the Kryptonians might be having next week... :wink: :tongue:

Spoiler here:

Here's Doomsday!

and the numbers are going down. :frown:

[cpahl2000]

It's Renato Guedes, who's been doing Robinson's Superman run since it started.

Also, the art for the New Krypton Special was done by like 5 different guys. Guedes did the variant cover for that, and possibly some interior art (I forget). But it looks good, as usual.


Renato is a great artist and this issue showed that did an amazing job( which is no secret).he is

[4thHorseman]

I wonder how they're going to be Doomsday this time *roll eyes*

[Karl O'Neill]

As Long as Johns does something interesting with Doomsday i will be very happy.

I remember chuck austen had doomsday going around stomping on little kids and stuff.

[Seraku]

next week is Guardian Special by Robinson, the week after is the Doomsday fight in Action Comics written by Johns

[WorstThingUS]

Okay, the appearance of Doomsday immediately signals a 180-degree downturn for me. He was a crap, contrived bad guy to begin with and hasn't improved over the last 15 or so years he's been around. Not to mention, isn't the "real" Doomsday dead? So this is just another clone and the last time one appeared in Infinite Crisis two Supermen made short work of him, so I hardly think a couple dozen Kryptonians will have a problem. That is, unless they leave out the fact that EVERYONE CAN FLY AND DOOMSDAY CANNOT. Everyone grab him and throw his ass into space. I cannot take any story with Doomsday seriously. Let this be one chapter of him getting stomped and never seen again.

[TeamED209]

Okay, the appearance of Doomsday immediately signals a 180-degree downturn for me. He was a crap, contrived bad guy to begin with and hasn't improved over the last 15 or so years he's been around. Not to mention, isn't the "real" Doomsday dead? So this is just another clone and the last time one appeared in Infinite Crisis two Supermen made short work of him, so I hardly think a couple dozen Kryptonians will have a problem. That is, unless they leave out the fact that EVERYONE CAN FLY AND DOOMSDAY CANNOT. Everyone grab him and throw his ass into space. I cannot take any story with Doomsday seriously. Let this be one chapter of him getting stomped and never seen again.

So your willing to completely change your view on a series based solely on the first villian shown?...I think this is going to be much bigger than doomsday in the end...

I trust johns to give me a excellent story as usual and i reckon he can make doomsday work for him.

[Karl O'Neill]

Okay, the appearance of Doomsday immediately signals a 180-degree downturn for me. He was a crap, contrived bad guy to begin with and hasn't improved over the last 15 or so years he's been around. Not to mention, isn't the "real" Doomsday dead? So this is just another clone and the last time one appeared in Infinite Crisis two Supermen made short work of him, so I hardly think a couple dozen Kryptonians will have a problem. That is, unless they leave out the fact that EVERYONE CAN FLY AND DOOMSDAY CANNOT. Everyone grab him and throw his ass into space. I cannot take any story with Doomsday seriously. Let this be one chapter of him getting stomped and never seen again.

give the story a chance to pick up dude.

[Crisis]

Did anyone else find it a bit odd and ironic that wonder woman was one of t he people talking to Clark about being worried about the Kryptonians...especially given the stuff that's happend when the Amazons came to rejoin humanity 1) with the first opening of Paradise island, 2) when they came to america and Circe framing them w/ the other amazons from band migal and 3) the recent amazon war ?

If anyone should have beem empathetic and had a long discussion privately (esp since she's his best friend) it would have been her. :eek:

[WorstThingUS]

So your willing to completely change your view on a series based solely on the first villian shown?...I think this is going to be much bigger than doomsday in the end...

I trust johns to give me a excellent story as usual and i reckon he can make doomsday work for him.

give the story a chance to pick up dude.

This is the type of knee-jerk reaction Doomsday causes in me. He's a stunt character and the one change in him that could have made him something more (sentience) was stripped away as soon as it arrived. He's not even a credible threat. Superman beat the crap out of him alone and like I said before, two Supermen made very short work of him. It's not a dramatic cliffhanger at all. It might as well be The Prankster landing there.

The only way he could be interesting is if the Kryptonians just kill him on the spot. Rip him to shreds in a heartbeat and scare the crap out everyone on the planet including Superman. That would be amazing.

[Thok]

Interesting ways the Doomsday fight might proceed, just from the top of my head

1. Zar-El is more of a scientist than Superman, and Doomsday is a product of early Kryptonian science. He may know some sort of fail safe that allows him to take out Doomsday quickly. (This would undercut a lot of Superman's sacrifice and highlight much of what he "missed" growing up on Earth.)

2. The Kryptonians likely don't have any preconceived notion of what Doomsday can do. So not only does Superman have to fight Doomsday, but he has to do it while making sure that none of his fellow Kryptonians makes a mistake and gets killed. (This is probably the least interesting of the possibilities.)

3. The Kryptonians (except for Superman and possibly Supergirl) might ignore the threat and simply leave. After all, he's not their fight. Now imagine the news response to that story, especially given that Supergirl was part of the contingent to meet the US President despite her previous history with him.

[Xero]

..... Zar-El is more of a scientist than Superman, and Doomsday is a product of early Kryptonian science. He may know some sort of fail safe that allows him to take out Doomsday quickly.....


Pre-Kryptonian science, Doomsday existed millenia before there were sentient Kryptonians, in fact Doomsday is the reason sentience was able to develop on Krypton, if he hadn't killed off all the megafauna and superpredators there would be no Superman.

[Mat001]

Not to mention, isn't the "real" Doomsday dead? So this is just another clone and the last time one appeared in Infinite Crisis two Supermen made short work of him, so I hardly think a couple dozen Kryptonians will have a problem.

Doomsday, as far as I'm aware, isn't dead. After the fight Superman #175, Doomsday was taken to Apokolips which is where Darkseid made his clone army of him in Superman/Batman. Then he got away and came back to Earth at the start of Chuck Austen's run. That Doomsday was the one who was in "Infinite Crisis".

[WorstThingUS]

Doomsday, as far as I'm aware, isn't dead. After the fight Superman #175, Doomsday was taken to Apokolips which is where Darkseid made his clone army of him in Superman/Batman. Then he got away and came back to Earth at the start of Chuck Austen's run. That Doomsday was the one who was in "Infinite Crisis".

Doomsday was released during Worlds At War to fight and was killed very quickly. That's why I tend to think of him as dead, but the fight where he was intelligent and Superman single-handedly beat him was actually after that. And I'd forgotten about (ie, blocked) Austen's run.

[CYOTI]

Haven't we already established that you can't kill Doomsday? He always comes back stronger and better than before.

[Slaughter]

This is going to be kickass.

How much you guys bet that some cocky Kandorian is going to step in to fight Doomsday (after all, everyone on earth is a puny mortal, right?) and end being an hero? (search google for the term "an hero." Yes, AN HERO)

Doomsday dropping in was the "Oh Crap" moment of the year. New Krypton is going to be AWESOME.

And before we forget, we're talking about DOOMSDAY here. A monster whose feats include:
Beating Superman to death
Being the main murderer in a universal-scale Green Lantern slaughter, taking a green-lantern ring, stalemating with the GUARDIANS OF THE UNIVERSE and forcing one of them to sacrifice himself.
Resistance to the full-force Omega Effect and as a result, kicking Darkseid's ass.
Brushing the Justice League aside like dolls. Including Morrison's Justice League.
Giving Orion and the Martian Manhunter, together, the beating of their lives.
Killing The Radiant, a being made of energy.
Surviving a energy blast from a entity which is ENTROPY INCARNATE.

And don't forget the fights with Superman:
First Fight: Double KO. Metropolis was devastated. Both got better, though.
Second Fight: Both Superman and Doomsday are stronger (and Superman was getting stronger every second in that time, remember?). Doomsday defeats Darkseid and The Radiant. Doomsday kicks Superman ass completely. They have to send him to The End of Time.
Third Fight: Superman gets thoughly trounced by Doomsday/Brainiac. Then he has to ask the league to hold Doomsday for him for some seconds.
Fourth Fight: Doomsday takes Superman by surprise, Black Lighting has to restart his heart, Superman BARELY wins.
Fifth Fight: Kal-L helps and they win.

[4thHorseman]

The thing I see happening with Doomsday is that this is where the Kryptonians start to feel more superior to the humans and feel they shouldn't be equal to them. They'll see it as: Humans are running, we are fighting, therefore we should be greater than them.

Something like that possibly.

[Binker]

By Nathaniel Ruff (also known as Binker, Binker2 and Nate on many forums)

SUPERMAN #681

Written by James Robinson
Art by Renato Guedes and Jose Magalháes
Cover by Alex Ross
Variant cover by Bernard Chang
Edited by Matt Idelson

PLOT:
"New Krypton" Part 2! Picking up directly from SUPERMAN: NEW KRYPTON SPECIAL #1, 100,000 Kryptonians have descended on Earth. But their introduction to the world follows a bumpy road, and humans and Kryptonians alike are wary of one another. Meanwhile, Clark must say goodbye to a long-standing member of his supporting cast while the threat behind Atlas makes his next move against the Man of Steel!

REVIEW:
"New Krypton" has arrived, and OH MY GOD was it that good! Clark's troubles with his later father, Superman's troubles with Kandor, Jimmy and his story, Lois and her revisiting family troubles, and the shocking return of Sam Lane (who also recruited Lex Luthor by the way) now starting the war against any and every Kryptonian because of Kandor's rebirth. This is what we all should expect from Superman events: excitement, a well-written story, and the need for every issue and every issue that comes out. Geoff, James, and Sterling are going to be fine, and we are in for a wild ride! By the way, I thought the idea of all of Kandor's citizens wearing a combination of Byrne, "Birthright", and post-Infinite Crisis clothing were a nice easter egg. Anyway, with the game set; let's get this party started!

Part 2 of this event gives us three developments: members of the JSA and the JLA's side of the 100,000 new Kryptonians (referencing "Last Son"), the citizens from Kandor introduce themselves to the world and to the President of the United States, and finally we get a cliffhanger as something falls from the sky and reveals to be Doomsday, one of the only, if not THE only, monster who can kill Kryptonians, and he is right next to 100,002 (including Superman and Supergirl) of them. Because this story has already started, what Robinson does here is keep up the pace. Readers would remember some things from the "Atlas" arc, the first two issues to be more specific, lacking pace and being dull. This is not the case, as Robinson is picking up where Geoff is taking the story, which is why it felt like Geoff Johns was still writing in this issue, so that Geoff can pick it up again and then do the same until Sterling Gates gets it.

As Geoff (I believe Robinson and Gates too) have stated in interviews beforehand, heroes and villains would be affected by the news of New Krypton. Mr. Terrific and Alan Scott of the JSA, with Hawkgirl and Wonder Woman of the JLA, are who appear before Superman to discuss the New Krypton matter (I'm using New Krypton because it is easier to type). Referencing the events from "Last Son", they have the right to be cautioned on what might happen again. Superman is very confident that that won't happen, but as we know from "New Krypton Special", he isn't sure either. Because like from us, and our three writers have said: these 100,000 Kryptonians might be like Superman, but Superman is what they aren't: Clark Kent. And that pretty much sums up the problem that we, and the DCU, know concerning the people of New Krypton.

P.S. We also get introduced to a new character named Thara Ak Var, whom Supergirl knows. One wonders if Thara will be the new Superwoman who all are wondering who it is behind the mask.

Overall, the pacing of this story would crush any concerns readers might have from Robinson's writing after his "Atlas" arc. Not that his arc was bad, it was the first two issues that had the concerned feeling. With three developments and one big threat at the end, this had no problems and I cannot wait for the next issue to see how the new Doomsday battle is handled. But before we do that, is a Guardian special following the pages of the "Jimmy Olsen Special".

RATING: Yay

Next Issue: In the ADVENTURE COMICS SPECIAL FEATURING THE GUARDIAN #1; witness the true origin of the Guardian of Metropolis is revealed!

[Will.S]

Ugh, so this is going to be a multi title cross over?

I was hoping to just pick up the Geoff Johns written issues but otherwise I might just drop the title and buy it in trade until the titles go back to their individual stories.

[WorstThingUS]

And before we forget, we're talking about DOOMSDAY here. A monster whose feats include:
Beating Superman to death
Being the main murderer in a universal-scale Green Lantern slaughter, taking a green-lantern ring, stalemating with the GUARDIANS OF THE UNIVERSE and forcing one of them to sacrifice himself.
Resistance to the full-force Omega Effect and as a result, kicking Darkseid's ass.
Brushing the Justice League aside like dolls. Including Morrison's Justice League.
Giving Orion and the Martian Manhunter, together, the beating of their lives.
Killing The Radiant, a being made of energy.
Surviving a energy blast from a entity which is ENTROPY INCARNATE.

...being turned to bag of bones by Imperiex with barely a shrug.

[ruppan]

The only way he could be interesting is if the Kryptonians just kill him on the spot. Rip him to shreds in a heartbeat and scare the crap out everyone on the planet including Superman. That would be amazing.

That's pretty much what I'm expecting.

Doomsday's a great pick because everybody in the DCU watched Doomsday kill Superman on TV. Doomsday's one of the few villains that represents a threat to Superman and the world. When the Kryptonians beat him senseless (I don't expect them to actually kill him), everybody's going to be freaked out by their display of power.

[WorstThingUS]

That's pretty much what I'm expecting.

Doomsday's a great pick because everybody in the DCU watched Doomsday kill Superman on TV. Doomsday's one of the few villains that represents a threat to Superman and the world. When the Kryptonians beat him senseless (I don't expect them to actually kill him), everybody's going to be freaked out by their display of power.

Our hopes to Geoff's ears...

[Jack Zodiac]

Goddamn, finally! I've been waitin' forever for Robinson to hit his stride on this book, but he finally has a good storytelling pace going and he didn't have Superman sounding like a total asshole in this issue. Now if Supergirl can be as good, I'll be set to read the whole Superline once again.

[Mat001]

Doomsday was released during Worlds At War to fight and was killed very quickly. That's why I tend to think of him as dead, but the fight where he was intelligent and Superman single-handedly beat him was actually after that. And I'd forgotten about (ie, blocked) Austen's run.

Doomsday did die during "Our Worlds At War", but returned right afterwards in issue #175, which was also the 100th issue since the death of Superman. In that story, Superman fights and beats Doomsday on the White House lawn. It is after that, that Doomsday is taken to Apokolips and so on.

Ugh, so this is going to be a multi title cross over?

I was hoping to just pick up the Geoff Johns written issues but otherwise I might just drop the title and buy it in trade until the titles go back to their individual stories.

Nope. Johns and editor Matt Idelson have been saying for two years that the books would start crossing over again. So have the solicits and various interviews.

...being turned to bag of bones by Imperiex with barely a shrug.

And he returned to life. Meaning Imperiex couldn't kill him a second time that way.

[d newton]

I thought that Lois's father died stopping an Imperiex probe during OWAW or did Superboy Prime do his famous wall punch trick again?

[Jack Zodiac]

I thought that Lois's father died stopping an Imperiex probe during OWAW or did Superboy Prime do his famous wall punch trick again?

Sam Lane's died a shit load of times and randomly pops up again all over the place. I think he died once a year before the Imperiex thing too, but had enough time to come back and die again before coming back again.

[earl]

Sam Lane's died a shit load of times and randomly pops up again all over the place.

I'm figuring that like the Guardian and maybe the Vigilante, Sam Lane is a clone created by Project Cadmus.

[Ghost Shark]

Happy to see Agent Liberty again, too.

Hmm. Agent Liberty, Guardian, Codename: Assassin...

Robinson must like the colour yellow. :P

[Sean Walsh]

I thought that Lois's father died stopping an Imperiex probe during OWAW or did Superboy Prime do his famous wall punch trick again?

Sam Lane did die in OWAW.

Then, somehow (in a story I didn't read) he sorta came back during Gail Simone & John Byrne's brief run on ACTION a few years ago.

And now it seems that return was for real, because he's back plaguing Supes in NEW KRYPTON (and beyond I reckon)

[IvCNuB4]

By Nathaniel Ruff (also known as Binker, Binker2 and Nate on many forums)
P.S. We also get introduced to a new character named Thara Ak Var, whom Supergirl knows. One wonders if Thara will be the new Superwoman who all are wondering who it is behind the mask.

Kara mentioned Thara-Ak Var in last month's "Action". She was Kara's best friend in Kandor. She seems a bit young to be Superwoman. I'm betting Alura will be Superwoman. Same white flowing cape. Hmmmm .....

[Toonimator]

So... um... where's New Kandor at? Antarctica? The Arctic? Cuz in Perry & Lois' conversation, BOTH are mentioned (though the Arctic's referred to as the North Pole). Superman's had Fortresses of Solitude all over the place, both poles, the Planet, the jungles of South America, but USUALLY it's in the Arctic.

[Retro315]

Cool issue.

Agent Liberty's reasons for being there seemed good, and I'm sure there's slightly more to it, but his motivations seem sound. Masks are more and more accepted.

The meeting seemed to be going well ... who knows how Doomsday's intervention will affect the greetings, but I'm sure a Kryptonian show of force will have some repercussions, good and bad. Again, I'm sure there's more to Doomsday showing up right then and there, and it may come back to Sam Lane and his "seeing what these potential enemies are made of".

And Krypto made me laugh, it was a great moment. Quite a few iconic moments this issue, and Guedes art just seems better overall to me. Or ... more "part of the current vision" than his warm-ups so far.

Pretty cool.

[ruppan]

Our hopes to Geoff's ears...

Dude, Johns has earned my faith.

BTW, did you notice the expressions made by the Kryptonians when Doomsday dropped? Most of them looked terrified as if they recognized Doomsday, while Thara had a look of murder in her eyes. I think it's pretty clear that Doomsday wasn't chosen randomly and that this appearance will have a lot of subtext.

Oh man, imagine if Johns is able to elevate Doomsday like he did with Sinestro. That would be John's most impossible feat yet.

[CBikle]

BTW, did you notice the expressions made by the Kryptonians when Doomsday dropped? Most of them looked terrified as if they recognized Doomsday, while Thara had a look of murder in her eyes. I think it's pretty clear that Doomsday wasn't chosen randomly and that this appearance will have a lot of subtext.



I was checking out Doomsday's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_(comics)) Wikipedia entry and apparently he was connected to Krypton's past.

For such a dumb, simple character who's only been around a short time, he really has developed a complicated backstory (He crashed Young Darkseid's wedding and ruined it. I'm serious).

[CBikle]

Also, this Doomsday may not be looking for a fight.

[ruppan]

I was checking out Doomsday's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_(comics)) Wikipedia entry and apparently he was connected to Krypton's past.

Oh, I should have probably mentioned Hunter/Prey. I just wasn't sure that it was still in continuity, or that these Kandorians would know of Doomsday.

If you're looking for straight-up action, Hunter/Prey is good way to pass time.

[Will.S]

Nope. Johns and editor Matt Idelson have been saying for two years that the books would start crossing over again. So have the solicits and various interviews.I'm not a big fan of that type of storyline structure unless it's seldom used like in GL and GLC with Sinestro Corps War. That's certainly not what I wanted to hear since I just want to stick to one Superman title.

*sigh*

I'm conflicted about the books now.

[Jack Tango]

Anyone else notice Agent Liberty appeared to be smiling when Doomsday crash-landed?

(And, quite frankly, if I were Superman, hanging out with a dozen or so Kryptonians, and Doomsday landed, I'd be all, "Hmm...this shouldn't be so bad...")

[Spiffy]

Okay, the appearance of Doomsday immediately signals a 180-degree downturn for me. He was a crap, contrived bad guy to begin with and hasn't improved over the last 15 or so years he's been around. Not to mention, isn't the "real" Doomsday dead? So this is just another clone and the last time one appeared in Infinite Crisis two Supermen made short work of him, so I hardly think a couple dozen Kryptonians will have a problem. That is, unless they leave out the fact that EVERYONE CAN FLY AND DOOMSDAY CANNOT. Everyone grab him and throw his ass into space. I cannot take any story with Doomsday seriously. Let this be one chapter of him getting stomped and never seen again.
I think Doomsday is going to be very incidental to the total New Krypton arc. You have tossed out some sarcastic reasons why he shouldn't be taken seriously in this story, and...

...I think that may exactly BE the point.

He's not there to illustrate a threat. He's there to show how much things have changed.

Against any single Kryptonian he'd be a serious threat. Again two, still quite dangerous. But against even a half dozen? He's toast. He might be able to hurt one of them badly in the fight. Heck, he might even kill one with a good shot. But he won't, he CAN'T win.

And this isn't the weakness with him appearing now--it's the point of it. To illustrate that.

They may show him doing some damage in the next part of the story, but we're reading it with the definite knowledge (and intent) that he's going to be beat.

[Slaughter]

Anyone else notice Agent Liberty appeared to be smiling when Doomsday crash-landed?

(And, quite frankly, if I were Superman, hanging out with a dozen or so Kryptonians, and Doomsday landed, I'd be all, "Hmm...this shouldn't be so bad...")

I think this is a trap springed by the American Governament. You think the Governament is going to really leave Doomsday lying around Metropolis after the big fight in Infinite Crisis? They would squee with glee to get their hands on the perfect weapon. Also, don't forget Manchester Black was able to program Doomsday's mind to see the Emperiex Probes as Superman. It would be very easy for the governament to find a telepath of the same level to sic Doomsday on the Kandorians. He is the perfect Kryptonian killer, in fact.

I think those Kandorians only make the situation worse. Those Kandorians aren't even totally powered yet, and they got no combat experience. Superman has one or two decades of fights against a legion of very powerful enemies under his belt and massive reserves of sunpower, those Kandorians have......... well, one of them killed a Blue Whale. And that's it, really. Just because they have Kryptonian Super-Powers already does not mean that they are instantly super-powered combat masters like Superman. So, not only Supes has to get rid of a Cosmic Horror, but he also has to protect cocky Kandorians AND the President. And before you say "Thrown Doomsday into space", well, good luck grabbing a super-fast monster stronger than Superman and then throwing him to space.

[Spiffy]

I think this is a trap springed by the American Governament. You think the Governament is going to really leave Doomsday lying around Metropolis after the big fight in Infinite Crisis? They would squee with glee to get their hands on the perfect weapon. Also, don't forget Manchester Black was able to program Doomsday's mind to see the Emperiex Probes as Superman. It would be very easy for the governament to find a telepath of the same level to sic Doomsday on the Kandorians. He is the perfect Kryptonian killer, in fact.

I think those Kandorians only make the situation worse. Those Kandorians aren't even totally powered yet, and they got no combat experience. Superman has one or two decades of fights against a legion of very powerful enemies under his belt and massive reserves of sunpower, those Kandorians have......... well, one of them killed a Blue Whale. And that's it, really. Just because they have Kryptonian Super-Powers already does not mean that they are instantly super-powered combat masters like Superman. So, not only Supes has to get rid of a Cosmic Horror, but he also has to protect cocky Kandorians AND the President. And before you say "Thrown Doomsday into space", well, good luck grabbing a super-fast monster stronger than Superman and then throwing him to space.
I hope Johns is smarter than that. Writing the Kandorians as "ineffective" because they don't have experience would be lazy writing.

True, they don't have experience with Superpowers, and that should indeed make some difference. But... unlike Kal-El there have to be a certain percentage of them with life-long martial arts learning, with military-level training in strategy and tactics, with other skills he doesn't have--then have those skills pushed up by becoming Super. And not just physical skills. There probably even have to be ones who might have a higher IQ before the yellow sun enhanced their brains--thus leading to an even more super-brain than his.

In other words, it would be just plain crap to insist that he's the best fighter among them.

To some degree, besides stuff like that, he'll still have an edge. He's absorbed more solar energy, for longer. But not THAT much longer, because we know, in continuity, that he totally discharged himself only about a year and change before the events we are now seeing. So he doesn't have a decades long advantage in "charging", he's got far less.

For this story to work, he's got to be in a place he's never been before. I won't say "outclassed", because that's not quite accurate. "Overwhelmed" would be more like it.

He can't punch his way out of this.

[Retro315]

On the subject of where the Fortress of Solitude, and now Kandor are located ... Antarctica would make a lot of sense, because it's a land mass, there's very little human life on it ... very, very little ... and it's more isolated.

After all, the north pole is located on the arctic ice, which is floating in a sea, although even with it shrinking, it is still a very large, very stable ice bed for the Fortress to rest on. I'm not sure.

I'd thought to use Blue Whales natural regions to try to figure it out, and I was shocked to learn that they range all over the ocean, north to south ... not to mention that a Kryptonian could've been gone for a few minutes, and that's all it'd take for him to travel far enough to find Blue Whales if they hadn't been so wide-spread.

I guess I'm gonna say North Pole ... Arctic ice ... because it seems like that's what the classic Fortress was, and seems more iconic, and given proximity to Alaska, more likely to be a big deal for the United States.

[Spiffy]

If you are saying that Antarctica would have made more sense...

Yes. it would have.

But the Arctic is probably better storytelling, since it gets the U.S. panties in a bunch.

[kingsyn]

I might be wrong here, so please correct me if i am.
But is'nt Superman more powerful than all the other krytonians because he's been exposed to yellow sun radiation more longer?

[Jack Tango]

I might be wrong here, so please correct me if i am.
But is'nt Superman more powerful than all the other krytonians because he's been exposed to yellow sun radiation more longer?

Yeah, about that...

He *should* be, but who the heck knows, really? I think the way it's currently done in the Super-titles, they ramp up pretty quick provided that they're adults.

Personally, I find that a little stupid, but whatevs.

[ruppan]

I think those Kandorians only make the situation worse. Those Kandorians aren't even totally powered yet, and they got no combat experience. Superman has one or two decades of fights against a legion of very powerful enemies under his belt and massive reserves of sunpower, those Kandorians have......... well, one of them killed a Blue Whale. And that's it, really. Just because they have Kryptonian Super-Powers already does not mean that they are instantly super-powered combat masters like Superman. So, not only Supes has to get rid of a Cosmic Horror, but he also has to protect cocky Kandorians AND the President. And before you say "Thrown Doomsday into space", well, good luck grabbing a super-fast monster stronger than Superman and then throwing him to space.

I counted at least 13 Kandorians in that scene. Even if they aren't all as powerful as Superman or Doomsday, they're all in the same range. That numerical advantage is just too much with physically equal opponents, unless we're talking about Batman.

[Slaughter]

I counted at least 13 Kandorians in that scene. Even if they aren't all as powerful as Superman or Doomsday, they're all in the same range. That numerical advantage is just too much with physically equal opponents, unless we're talking about Batman.

Yes, they have numerical advantage. But even if all those Kandorians join Kal in the fight against Doomsday, remember the massive civil destruction that fighting Doomsday caused in the first time. Now thrown in a bunch of Kryptonians who probrably won't care about colateral damage and civilian casualities, or at least won't care as much as Superman. A fight that massive, even if Doomsday is defeated in, say, one hour, can easily level Metropolis and make Battle For Metropolis seems like a picnic in heaven. At least there are enough Kryptonians to fix the mess, though I fear that Superdickery runs in the Kryptonian blood. Well, Zod has so much Superdickery on his blood that his body fluids are probrably composed of pure, liquid kryptonian arrogance that burns you when you touch it.

Don't forget that Atlas thoughly trashed Supes. I kinda supressed my memories about that arc (Mental Retcons are fun! What was this Countdown book, by the way? It never existed.), but I think the governament was sabotaging Supes, right? If they weren't and Superman was genuinely being beaten without the governament helping Atlas in any way... Doomsday is going to beat Superman into a gory pulp, then he is going to drink blood with Zor-El's skull.

I doubt 13 Kandorians would take care of Doomsday before levelling Metropolis, turning it into rubble, then playing "Let's bounce the rubble!" and destroying it again. A Hundred? YES. 13? No way in hell.

[WorstThingUS]

I think Doomsday is going to be very incidental to the total New Krypton arc. You have tossed out some sarcastic reasons why he shouldn't be taken seriously in this story, and...

...I think that may exactly BE the point.

He's not there to illustrate a threat. He's there to show how much things have changed.

Against any single Kryptonian he'd be a serious threat. Again two, still quite dangerous. But against even a half dozen? He's toast. He might be able to hurt one of them badly in the fight. Heck, he might even kill one with a good shot. But he won't, he CAN'T win.

And this isn't the weakness with him appearing now--it's the point of it. To illustrate that.

They may show him doing some damage in the next part of the story, but we're reading it with the definite knowledge (and intent) that he's going to be beat.

...which is the conclusion I said I hoped for after getting past my initial knee-jerk response. The real question now is will it be a quick defeat to demonstrate awesome power, or a brutal, vicious defeat to demonstrate ruthless awesome power? I'm also expecting a possible "twist" in Superman having to save an intelligent Doomsday who has been manipulated from his fellow Kryptonians.

I think this is a trap springed by the American Governament.

I think this is now a given. Luthor and Sam Lane.

Those Kandorians aren't even totally powered yet, and they got no combat experience. Superman has one or two decades of fights against a legion of very powerful enemies under his belt and massive reserves of sunpower, those Kandorians have......... well, one of them killed a Blue Whale. And that's it, really. Just because they have Kryptonian Super-Powers already does not mean that they are instantly super-powered combat masters like Superman. So, not only Supes has to get rid of a Cosmic Horror, but he also has to protect cocky Kandorians AND the President. And before you say "Thrown Doomsday into space", well, good luck grabbing a super-fast monster stronger than Superman and then throwing him to space.

A monster whom Superman has beaten single-handedly and with the aid of just one other Kryptonian. Twelve on one is no fight at all.

Oh, and some of the Kandorians are security as pointed out in the scene with Supergirl and her old friend, so I think they probably have training in the Kryptonian martial arts we've actually seen Superman use on occasion, so it may be a mistake to assume they have no combat experience.

Oh, and does anyone else remember the US Government has the Kryptonian ship Luthor found? Wonder when that's going to show up.

[Spiffy]

I might be wrong here, so please correct me if i am.
But is'nt Superman more powerful than all the other krytonians because he's been exposed to yellow sun radiation more longer?
Except DC had him completely "flushed" of his stored up yellow Sun energy at the end of the last Crisis. So he's only been building it up again in the time SINCE then, which "in continuity" is I believe only about a year and a half or so.

[WorstThingUS]

Except DC had him completely "flushed" of his stored up yellow Sun energy at the end of the last Crisis. So he's only been building it up again in the time SINCE then, which "in continuity" is I believe only about a year and a half or so.

And that's not counting the half a million times he's lost his powers for one reason or another. But there is something to be said for a long term change in his body after 30 years under the yellow sun. And then there's the work he's done to stretch his abilities, as seen with Mongul Jr.

[kingsyn]

Except DC had him completely "flushed" of his stored up yellow Sun energy at the end of the last Crisis. So he's only been building it up again in the time SINCE then, which "in continuity" is I believe only about a year and a half or so.

And in this issue, all the characters still say he's the most powerful being on earth.
Damn, Superman must of been a god before the last crisis!

[Mat001]

I'm not a big fan of that type of storyline structure unless it's seldom used like in GL and GLC with Sinestro Corps War. That's certainly not what I wanted to hear since I just want to stick to one Superman title.

*sigh*

I'm conflicted about the books now.

It's only going to be done for "New Krypton" and when an arc is big like it.

On the subject of where the Fortress of Solitude, and now Kandor are located ... Antarctica would make a lot of sense, because it's a land mass, there's very little human life on it ... very, very little ... and it's more isolated.

After all, the north pole is located on the arctic ice, which is floating in a sea, although even with it shrinking, it is still a very large, very stable ice bed for the Fortress to rest on. I'm not sure.

I'd thought to use Blue Whales natural regions to try to figure it out, and I was shocked to learn that they range all over the ocean, north to south ... not to mention that a Kryptonian could've been gone for a few minutes, and that's all it'd take for him to travel far enough to find Blue Whales if they hadn't been so wide-spread.

I guess I'm gonna say North Pole ... Arctic ice ... because it seems like that's what the classic Fortress was, and seems more iconic, and given proximity to Alaska, more likely to be a big deal for the United States.


Maybe, just on the off chance, it was a typo. It's happened in comics before, long before Dan Didio was in charge. And if you don't believe me, check through your old back issues. Hell, it happens in novels.

I hope Johns is smarter than that. Writing the Kandorians as "ineffective" because they don't have experience would be lazy writing.

True, they don't have experience with Superpowers, and that should indeed make some difference. But... unlike Kal-El there have to be a certain percentage of them with life-long martial arts learning, with military-level training in strategy and tactics, with other skills he doesn't have--then have those skills pushed up by becoming Super. And not just physical skills. There probably even have to be ones who might have a higher IQ before the yellow sun enhanced their brains--thus leading to an even more super-brain than his.

In other words, it would be just plain crap to insist that he's the best fighter among them.

There are some who have combat experience, mainly Zod's loyalists. But who is to say those 600 Kryptonians give a flying **** about fighting Doomsday? Then again, they could get involved and cause massive property damage. As to the rest of the Kryptonians, most of them favored science over combat.

Except DC had him completely "flushed" of his stored up yellow Sun energy at the end of the last Crisis. So he's only been building it up again in the time SINCE then, which "in continuity" is I believe only about a year and a half or so.

Ah, but as it was revealed by Batman in "The Third Kryptonian", the red sun doesn't drain a Kryptonian of their powers. It merely freezes it in their bodies for a time, until they are under a yellow sun again. So when Clark went through the red sun and crashed on Mogo, he only lost his powers because his powers were freezing up in his body. They didn't return upon his arrival to Earth, because he was mentally blocking them off. When the mental blocks became unblocked, he began to regain the use of his powers. He just had to push himself to fully embrace his powers again. Once he did that, his powers became enhanced based on their sudden return.

[Magneto Rocks]

Hmm. Love the overall story at this point, but this issue in particular... I felt some aspects of it were stronger than others (The Krypto beat was VERY well handled)... but I don't like Robinson's Superman. I didn't before, and I like him less now. I think Robinson wrote a decent chapter in a Superman story which was weakened every time Superman spoke at all. Still, I'm willing to pass over it if the overall story overcomes that.

[Seraku]

funny no one has mentioned the Krypto scene by now.

[ruppan]

Yes, they have numerical advantage. But even if all those Kandorians join Kal in the fight against Doomsday, remember the massive civil destruction that fighting Doomsday caused in the first time. Now thrown in a bunch of Kryptonians who probrably won't care about colateral damage and civilian casualities, or at least won't care as much as Superman. A fight that massive, even if Doomsday is defeated in, say, one hour, can easily level Metropolis and make Battle For Metropolis seems like a picnic in heaven.

Yeah, this seems right. Before you were arguing that Superman would have to protect the Kryptonians. I think this scenario is more likely.

[Jack Tango]

funny no one has mentioned the Krypto scene by now.

I thought it was cute.

There. Mentioned. :-)

[brb2323]

So your willing to completely change your view on a series based solely on the first villian shown?...I think this is going to be much bigger than doomsday in the end...

I trust johns to give me a excellent story as usual and i reckon he can make doomsday work for him.

I agree. Johns and Robinson said this story has been in the works for a long time. Plus besides Doomsday, we have already seen General Lane meet with Lex Luthor. Plus Brainiac is still alive. There are all kinds of things that could happen. Plus Geoff Johns is an amazing writer and anything he writes is at least very good if not great.

[SpaceBooger]

I keep thinking about the story arc in Superman/Batman where they are searching for kryptonite only to find the government has a stash of k-powered weapons - including a kryptoinite infused doomsday

[WorstThingUS]

I keep thinking about the story arc in Superman/Batman where they are searching for kryptonite only to find the government has a stash of k-powered weapons - including a kryptoinite infused doomsday

Superman/Batman is generally seen to take place outside regular continuity.

[Mat001]

Superman/Batman is generally seen to take place outside regular continuity.

But the writers are free to use plot points in their books, if they wish to.

[dreyga2000]

Assumhing that it is in contiuity... Think of the irony the world had been completely rid of Kryptonite then 100,000 Kryptonians show up....:biggrin:

[DeadXMan]

doomsday, Again......

seriously they can't think of better villains?

what's next graphing him with Krptonite.......oh wait

[PastePotPete]

doomsday, Again......

seriously they can't think of better villains?

what's next graphing him with Krptonite.......oh wait

Yeah, he's been over-used. But I have to admit I want to see twenty Kryptonians beat the snot out of him all at once.

Doomsday isn't scary. The new Kryptonians are.

[Vic Vega]

Do the Kryptonians still take awhile to "charge up" on red sun rays? If they do then Doomsday might be more of a threat than you guys think.

I'm pretty sure Gen. Lane is responsible for Doomsday's latest appearance.

[We R. Venom]

Yeah, he's been over-used. But I have to admit I want to see twenty Kryptonians beat the snot out of him all at once.

Doomsday isn't scary. The new Kryptonians are.

Yeah that guy who beat up the blue whale seems like trouble. Huge asshole too.

[Mat001]

Do the Kryptonians still take awhile to "charge up" on red sun rays? If they do then Doomsday might be more of a threat than you guys think.

You mean the yellow sun. Well, it took three to five days for the Kryptonians to achieve their full powers. Funerals on average plan out three to five days, so that's enough time for them. Especially since the sun is up constantly.

I'm pretty sure Gen. Lane is responsible for Doomsday's latest appearance.

Most likely with the help of Lex.

[SpaceBooger]

doomsday, Again......

seriously they can't think of better villains?

what's next graphing him with Krptonite.......oh wait

Doomsday does not die the same way twice...so it would be interesting to see if 20 Kryptonians could take him out via brute force...
unless this is a clone of Doomsday. The new Adventure Comics hinted that the military plans on using clones, magic, and kryptonite to take down supes.

[Pyro]

Guedes' artwork this issue really wasn't up to par. No figure was able to look another in the eyes. Everyone looked flat and awkward. Very uneven work. It made it a really disappointing start to the New Krypton story for me.

[lawman]

Bit of a nitpick, but did anyone else find it distracting that the president was drawn to look (and written to sound) like George W. Bush?

Bush has never been president in the DCU. The current president, since Pete Ross stepped down (aside from a brief botched election in the first Freedom Fighters mini) has been Jonathan Horne. He was certainly the president during Amazons Attack, when Supergirl brought down Air Force One, as mentioned more than once in this issue. And he's never looked or sounded anything like GWB.

[Pyro]

Bit of a nitpick, but did anyone else find it distracting that the president was drawn to look (and written to sound) like George W. Bush?

Bush has never been president in the DCU. The current president, since Pete Ross stepped down (aside from a brief botched election in the first Freedom Fighters mini) has been Jonathan Horne. He was certainly the president during Amazons Attack, when Supergirl brought down Air Force One, as mentioned more than once in this issue. And he's never looked or sounded anything like GWB.
I found it distracting, and I didn't even know about Jonathan Home (though I've read Amazons Attack). I just knew I hadn't seen Bush in a DC comic before and I did a slight double take.

[Super Buddies Forever]

Yeah, I found that to be the second big continuity/logic gaffe in this issue (the first being the Antarctic confusion). The DCU never had Bush as President because of the Lex 2000 storyline (where it was implied that both Bush and Gore ran but lost to Luthor). And now, with two months left in his term, they decide it's time to bring him in?

Oh well. If Batman really does die, here's hoping they pull a Funeral For A Friend and have Barack and Michelle speak at the funeral.