Obama is anti-semite

[Briareos]

How can anyone vote for him is beyond me:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmed-msm-holds-video-of-barack.html

[SUPERECWFAN1]

How can anyone vote for him is beyond me:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmed-msm-holds-video-of-barack.html

Man were really getting desperate . A week left....7 days....and soon .:evilsmile:

[Briareos]

So your willing to vote for a anti-semite if he agrees with you on everything else? Now true we haven't seen the video but based on Obama's history of surrounding himself with characters like these I think he's long sinced used up the benefit of the doubt.

[Adam C]

Bri, wouldn't it be more acceptable if you just asked people to hold out their hands and take a grand ole' shit into them instead of bludgeoning us with the same tiresome mouth-frothing you GOP mouthbreathers regularly bring to the Israel-Palestine issue?

[Berserk]

How can anyone vote for him is beyond me:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmed-msm-holds-video-of-barack.html


If you don't want to vote for him, then don't vote for him. But, don't circulate lies about him just to try and convince other people to follow your example.

[mattx110]

OH man, I didn't realize how hot Bill Ayers was in the '70s. Springsteen nicked his look!



"Oh look! Someone with differing viewpoints on international affairs might have talked to Obama! Jew-hater, Jew-hater!"

Seriously?

[mattx110]

So your willing to vote for a anti-semite if he agrees with you on everything else? Now true we haven't seen the video but based on Obama's history of surrounding himself with characters like these I think he's long sinced used up the benefit of the doubt.
Psst... Jews like Bill Ayers.

[LtMarvel]

Entertainment is desperate attempts to create issues were there are none.

Thanks for the laughs, Bri!

[Briareos]

Can there be any doubt now:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story

[LtMarvel]

The laughs keep coming. Here Bri links to Obama's " clear support of Israel"

Keep them coming, Bri!

[Adam C]

Can there be any doubt now:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story

Yes...how is criticising the actions of the Israeli state anti-semitism?

Seriously, Samurai at least had the decency to find a message board full of people that shared his warped views and leave the rest of us in peace.

[BnL]

Can there be any doubt now:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story

Did you bother reading the subtitle? It says, "They consider him receptive despite his clear support of Israel." Imagine that! A politician who doesn't demonize people he disagrees with! In fact, he might not even rule them out as friends, potentially! That kind of openness is downright dangerous for America! Doesn't he know that the appropriate reaction is to saber rattle and make enemies?

God, you're dumb.

[Briareos]

Yes...how is criticising the actions of the Israeli state anti-semitism?

Seriously, Samurai at least had the decency to find a message board full of people that shared his warped views and leave the rest of us in peace.

Um...

One speaker likened "Zionist settlers on the West Bank" to Osama bin Laden, saying both had been "blinded by ideology."


Yeah...

[mattx110]

Can there be any doubt now:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story
Also, Jews aren't Palestine-hating stereotypes.

As an American, as a Jew, as a human being, I want to see conflict end with as little bloodshed as possible and as many rights of man maintained. We can't pretend Palestine is one big terror cell if we want to accomplish those ends. So stop being a bloody racist!

Israel is a strong ally of the US. It's not infallible. Neither are we, obviously, with our imperialist streak since WW2, so stop being a cartoon.

[Briareos]

Did you bother reading the subtitle? It says, "They consider him receptive despite his clear support of Israel." Imagine that! A politician who doesn't demonize people he disagrees with! In fact, he might not even rule them out as friends, potentially! That kind of openness is downright dangerous for America! Doesn't he know that the appropriate reaction is to saber rattle and make enemies?

God, you're dumb.

So basically we're suppose to listen to what he says when he knows the microphones are on and ignore places he goes and or who speaks with in private....

[SUPERECWFAN1]

So your willing to vote for a anti-semite if he agrees with you on everything else? Now true we haven't seen the video but based on Obama's history of surrounding himself with characters like these I think he's long sinced used up the benefit of the doubt.

Ohhh just 7 more days....7 more days til its over. God willing Obama crushes McCain and unites the USA in this new era. You gonna accept him as President if he wins in 7 days ?

[Briareos]

If this is so innocent why is Obama trying to downplay his relationship with him...

[mattx110]

Um...



Yeah...
There are Israeli jews that are anti-zionist these days...

It's a reactionary nationalist movement to sustain an ethnic group under fire.

[BnL]

By the way, Briareos, since you're so concerned about respecting Jews, how do you feel about your girl Sarah Palin associating with a clergyman who said that our financial institutions are being run into the ground by Jews, and they need to be replaced with Christians?

[mattx110]

If this is so innocent why is Obama trying to downplay his relationship with him...
Because gay marriage is illegal so he went with Michelle instead?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Also, Jews aren't Palestine-hating stereotypes.

As an American, as a Jew, as a human being, I want to see conflict end with as little bloodshed as possible and as many rights of man maintained. We can't pretend Palestine is one big terror cell if we want to accomplish those ends. So stop being a bloody racist!

Israel is a strong ally of the US. It's not infallible. Neither are we, obviously, with our imperialist streak since WW2, so stop being a cartoon.

Whats scary is if Obama gets into office ...I feel at some point (2-3 years in) we may see the Iran PM , Israel PM and Palastine PM all standing on the White House lawn togethor. Which would be Earth shattering to see but perhaps all 3 meeting with him would be a hell of a sign to see.

I know its a crazy dream of some kinda peace. But I can hope.

[Berserk]

Whats scary is if Obama gets into office ...I feel at some point (2-3 years in) we may see the Iran PM , Israel PM and Palastine PM all standing on the White House lawn togethor. Which would be Earth shattering to see but perhaps all 3 meeting with him would be a hell of a sign to see.

I know its a crazy dream of some kinda peace. But I can hope.



That would only confirm that Obama pals around with terrorists doncha know? :rolleyes:

[BnL]

So basically we're suppose to listen to what he says when he knows the microphones are on and ignore places he goes and or who speaks with in private....

No, dumb-dumb. It's possible to be supportive of Israel without shunning anyone who disagrees with you. You can't accomplish anything by shutting out anyone with a different opinion.

[CutterMike]

From the LA Times article:
Obama sees a "moral imperative" in resolving the conflict and is most likely to apply pressure to both sides to make concessions.

"That's my personal opinion," Ibish said, "and I think it for a very large number of circumstantial reasons, and what he's said."

Aides say that Obama's friendships with Palestinian Americans reflect only his ability to interact with a wide diversity of people, and that his views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have been consistent. Obama has called himself a "stalwart" supporter of the Jewish state and its security needs. He believes in an eventual two-state solution in which Jewish and Palestinian nations exist in peace, which is consistent with current U.S. policy.

So, he's likely to "apply pressure to both sides" and to keep going along with "current U.S. policy."

Which, IIRC, is the policy of your man Bush...

AHA! That sneaky Bush has been a sekrit Palestinian agent all this time...! HE'S A TERRORIST!!! WE'LL ALL BE MURDERED IN OUR BEDS!!!!!


...jeeze, Bri... Seriously... your stuff is getting lamer.

It's like you're not even TRYING to put together an semi-coherent argument anymore.

[Briareos]

ahem...

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/06/08/will-media-report-anti-semitic-article-obamas-website

[Briareos]

If a republican allowed someone to publish a article like that on their official website they would be torn to shreads in the media. This isn't someone in the random comment section this is someone specially allowed to post a article on the webiste.

[LtMarvel]

So someone posted a link to an anti-Semetic article. Does that make Obama anti-Semetic?

Hey, you posted a link to the the link. Does that make you anti-Semetic?

And you posted it on Jonah's website. Does that make him anti-Semetic?

[Adam C]

Um...

Yeah...

Do you know anything about political extremism among the settler population in the West Bank? Go on...

[BnL]

ahem...

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/06/08/will-media-report-anti-semitic-article-obamas-website

You're desperate. It's a community blog. Whatever the content of the post, Obama didn't write it, and it's not necessarily a reflection of his views.

BTW, I can't help but notice you didn't answer my question about Palin. How about it?

[Briareos]

You're desperate. It's a community blog. Whatever the content of the post, Obama didn't write it, and it's not necessarily a reflection of his views.

BTW, I can't help but notice you didn't answer my question about Palin. How about it?

Show me a link to info on that...

[Briareos]

Hmmm if it was something where anyone can post then ok fine...

[mattx110]

ahem...

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/06/08/will-media-report-anti-semitic-article-obamas-website
YOU ARE ON A MESSAGE BOARD RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!! YOU KNOW HOW THEY WORK! THAT'S BASICALLY A MESSAGE BOARD POST!!!! SEE WHERE IT SAYS "POSTED..." ON THE "COMMUNITY BLOG" SECTION OF THE SITE WHERE ANY MEMBER CAN POST ANYTHING.


And they took the damn thing down, maybe because Obama doesn't agree with it, and doesn't want it to be confused with his views by idiots or old folks who don't understand the internet.

[Briareos]

Of course if McCain had a open community blog and this was posted there it would be front page in the NYT...

[glue]

Of course if McCain had a open community blog and this was posted there it would be front page in the NYT...

And that would be wrong. Congratulations. You're just as awful as the people you despise.

[Adam C]

You're desperate. It's a community blog. Whatever the content of the post, Obama didn't write it, and it's not necessarily a reflection of his views.

And it was taken down by the blog's moderators given that the link is no longer operable.

[Briareos]

Do you know anything about political extremism among the settler population in the West Bank? Go on...

I'm pretty sure they haven't killed thousands in terrorist strikes...

[Briareos]

And that would be wrong. Congratulations. You're just as awful as the people you despise.

Hey as soon as I found out that it was a open forum I retracted which is more then you'll see from any left wing site...

[BnL]

Show me a link to info on that...

Sure, here's the video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4HIc-yfgM&e)

Beginning at about 1:20 in, the pastor says this:

The second area whereby God wants us, wants to penetrate in our society is in the economic area. The Bible says that the wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous. It's high time that we have top Christian businessmen, businesswomen, bankers, you know, who are men and women of integrity running the economics of our nations. That's what we are waiting for. That's part and parcel of transformation. If you look at the -- you know -- if you look at the Israelites, that's how they work. And that's how they are, even today.

Sarah Palin is present for the sermon, you can see her at about the 7 minute mark, as he prays to protect her from witchcraft.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Hey if you wanna know what the GOP really plans on using against Obama , Briaros ...click the Fox News link I posted on this forum. Its really serious and it likely could help John McCain !

[mattx110]

Hey as soon as I found out that it was a open forum I retracted which is more then you'll see from any left wing site...
So far we've seen proof of Obama's site removing material it didn't want to be associated with that was a bit racist in nature. That's a form of retraction.


Also, Goys in charge of financial institutions?

hahahahahaahahahahahahaaa that's a good one.

[glue]

Hey as soon as I found out that it was a open forum I retracted which is more then you'll see from any left wing site...

The point is you post stupid shit without actually bothering to read anything. You go to Google type in "Obama anti-semite" and just post whatever pops up. But, yes, kudos on retracting your ridiculous "proof".

[Buzz Dixon]

http://media.tumblr.com/1KpgOhsA7f4iulibC5J4yLPno1_500.jpg







(...and in case the pic doesn't come through... http://media.tumblr.com/1KpgOhsA7f4iulibC5J4yLPno1_500.jpg )

[Adam C]

I'm pretty sure they haven't killed thousands in terrorist strikes...

Ah, so you know approximately jack and shit about extremism among settlers in the West Bank. But rather than manning up an admitting it you resort to emotional appeals? Outside of the 9/11 attacks how many non-state terrorist organisations have actually managed to kill thousands in a single blow?

Anyways since you're clearly talking out of your ass.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/world/middleeast/26settlers.html?pagewanted=1&ref=world

YITZHAR, West Bank — A pipe bomb that exploded late on Wednesday night outside the Jerusalem home of Zeev Sternhell, a Hebrew University professor, left him lightly wounded and created only a minor stir in a nation that routinely experiences violence on a much larger scale.

But Mr. Sternhell was noted for his impassioned critiques of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, once suggesting that Palestinians “would be wise to concentrate their struggle against the settlements.” And the authorities found fliers near his home offering nearly $300,000 to anyone who kills a member of Peace Now, a left-wing Israeli advocacy group, leading them to suspect that militant Israeli settlers or their supporters were behind the attack.

f so, the bombing may be the latest sign that elements of Israel’s settler movement are resorting to extremist tactics to protect their homes in the occupied West Bank against not only Palestinians, but also Jews who some settlers argue are betraying them. Radical settlers say they are determined to show that their settlements and outposts cannot be dismantled, either by law or by force.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0930/p06s02-wome.html

Jerusalem - When Yaron Ezrahi was a young political science professor in 1983, his star student was Emil Grunzweig, who had just completed his thesis on free speech.

Two days later, Mr. Grunzweig was killed at a peace rally here, when a right-wing activist threw a hand grenade into a crowd of people demonstrating against Israel's involvement in the war in Lebanon.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE15/099/2004/en/dom-MDE150992004en.html

A group of hooded Israeli settlers attacked Amnesty International delegates and members of the CPT and the Operation Dove NGO on 9 October as they returned from accompanying Palestinian primary schoolchildren back to their home. The attackers first threw stones at the five internationals and then attacked three of them with wooden clubs. An Amnesty International delegate sustained multiple bruises on her back, arm and leg and the Operation Dove member collapsed and had to be taken to hospital by ambulance. On both occasions, the attackers came from the nearby Israeli settlement of Havat Ma’on and returned there after the attacks.

Rather than taking steps to stop and prevent such attacks and hold Israeli settlers accountable, the Israeli army and security forces have responded by imposing further restrictions on the local Palestinian population.

After the attack, the Israeli army informed the Palestinian villagers that, if the children are accompanied by internationals on their way to and from school, no army patrol will be on site to protect them from Israeli settlers. The Palestinian villagers reluctantly accepted that the schoolchildren have make to the journey without their international escort, but, two days later, on 12 October, the children were again chased by Israeli settlers from the Havat Ma’on settlement while on their way to school. The Israeli army patrol, which was present, did not intervene. Israeli settlers again threw stones as the children passed near the settlement on their way to school on 17 October.

If you really think that one speaker's comments are motivated by simple anti-semitism, you need to take another look at some of the violence committed by some of the settler population in the West Bank. This is not G.I. Joe vs. Cobra, nor has it ever been.

[CutterMike]

If a republican allowed someone to publish a article like that on their official website they would be torn to shreads in the media. This isn't someone in the random comment section this is someone specially allowed to post a article on the webiste.Ummm... Did you read any of the comments after the article...?

1 - It's an open forum -- you know... like YABS...? Anyone can post there after registering.
2 - The disclaimer on the community forum says: "Content on blogs in My.BarackObama represents the opinions of community members and in no way should be interpreted as endorsed or approved by the campaign."
3 - The post has apparently been taken down.
4 - Since some of the Obama-haters commenting are saying he shouldn't allow an open forum because people will say anything that they want, and others are saying that he only allows people to do things that support him, I'm confused as to which option they want from him (except to, you know, go away). Apparently they believe that he should exert more control over his supporters while allowing them more freedom...

Hunh...?

Whackjobs.

[Briareos]

Sure, here's the video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl4HIc-yfgM&e)

Beginning at about 1:20 in, the pastor says this:



Sarah Palin is present for the sermon, you can see her at about the 7 minute mark, as he prays to protect her from witchcraft.

Eh it's borderline. I wouldn't have been too comfortable with it but it's no where near Wright's insane hateful ramblings...

[Infra-Man]

Can there be any doubt now:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story

From the linked article:

They consider him receptive despite his clear support of Israel
...
Obama adopted a different tone in his comments and called for finding common ground.
...
Aides say that Obama's friendships with Palestinian Americans reflect only his ability to interact with a wide diversity of people, and that his views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have been consistent. Obama has called himself a "stalwart" supporter of the Jewish state and its security needs. He believes in an eventual two-state solution in which Jewish and Palestinian nations exist in peace, which is consistent with current U.S. policy.

Obama also calls for the U.S. to talk to such declared enemies as Iran, Syria and Cuba. But he argues that the Palestinian militant organization Hamas, which governs the Gaza Strip, is an exception, calling it a terrorist group that should renounce violence and recognize Israel's right to exist before dialogue begins. That viewpoint, which also matches current U.S. policy, clashes with that of many Palestinian advocates who urge the United States and Israel to treat Hamas as a partner in negotiations.

"Barack's belief is that it's important to understand other points of view, even if you can't agree with them," said his longtime political strategist, David Axelrod.

Obama "can disagree without shunning or demonizing those with other views," he said. "That's far different than the suggestion that he somehow tailors his view."

Looking for clues
But because Obama is relatively new on the national political scene, and new to foreign policy questions such as the long-simmering Israeli-Palestinian conflict, both sides have been looking closely for clues to what role he would play in that dispute.

And both sides, on certain issues, have interpreted Obama's remarks as supporting their point of view.

Last year, for example, Obama was quoted saying that "nobody's suffering more than the Palestinian people." The candidate later said the remark had been taken out of context, and that he meant that the Palestinians were suffering "from the failure of the Palestinian leadership [in Gaza] to recognize Israel" and to renounce violence.

Jewish leaders were satisfied with Obama's explanation, but some Palestinian leaders, including Ibish, took the original quotation as a sign of the candidate's empathy for their plight.
...
Ties with Israel
Even as he won support in Chicago's Palestinian community, Obama tried to forge ties with advocates for Israel.

In 2000, he submitted a policy paper to CityPAC, a pro-Israel political action committee, that among other things supported a unified Jerusalem as Israel's capital, a position far out of step from that of his Palestinian friends. The PAC concluded that Obama's position paper "suggests he is strongly pro-Israel on all of the major issues."

In 2002, as a rash of suicide bombings struck Israel, Obama sought out a Jewish colleague in the state Senate and asked whether he could sign onto a measure calling on Palestinian leaders to denounce violence. "He came to me and said, 'I want to have my name next to yours,' " said his former state Senate colleague Ira Silverstein, an observant Jew.

As a presidential candidate, Obama has won support from such prominent Chicago Jewish leaders as Penny Pritzker, a member of the family that owns the Hyatt hotel chain, and who is now his campaign finance chair, and from Lee Rosenberg, a board member of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.


If you read the entire article (and not just the headline, and I can't believe you missed the subhead), you find a much more nuanced examination of his relationship with Khalidi, his disagreeements with Khalidi, his support of Isreal, as well as concerns some have about his association with Khalidi in light of Rev. Wright's rhetoric.

Bri, not only are you a partisan and disingenuous, it's clear you do not do well with nuance nor do you process all the information you read (assuming you actually read the article you linked to).

[Briareos]

Ah, so you know approximately jack and shit about extremism among settlers in the West Bank. But rather than manning up an admitting it you resort to emotional appeals? Outside of the 9/11 attacks how many non-state terrorist organisations have actually managed to kill thousands in a single blow?

Anyways since you're clearly talking out of your ass.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/world/middleeast/26settlers.html?pagewanted=1&ref=world



http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0930/p06s02-wome.html



http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE15/099/2004/en/dom-MDE150992004en.html



If you really think that one speaker's comments are motivated by simple anti-semitism, you need to take another look at some of the violence committed by some of the settler population in the West Bank. This is not G.I. Joe vs. Cobra, nor has it ever been.

Well of course it isn't... No Hamas or PLO member is as hot as the Baroness was!!!

[Briareos]

Ah, so you know approximately jack and shit about extremism among settlers in the West Bank. But rather than manning up an admitting it you resort to emotional appeals? Outside of the 9/11 attacks how many non-state terrorist organisations have actually managed to kill thousands in a single blow?

Anyways since you're clearly talking out of your ass.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/world/middleeast/26settlers.html?pagewanted=1&ref=world



http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0930/p06s02-wome.html



http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE15/099/2004/en/dom-MDE150992004en.html



If you really think that one speaker's comments are motivated by simple anti-semitism, you need to take another look at some of the violence committed by some of the settler population in the West Bank. This is not G.I. Joe vs. Cobra, nor has it ever been.

Oh god to suggest that makes both sides even remotely equal is silly.

[Dr Cthulwho]

So your willing to vote for a anti-semite if he agrees with you on everything else? Now true we haven't seen the video but based on Obama's history of surrounding himself with characters like these I think he's long sinced used up the benefit of the doubt.

Ah, the old "guilt by association" - I would have thought all these weak attempts as character assassination would have drained the tar supplies long ago. Oh well.

What exactly has Obama done that would qualify as anti-Semitism? To be honest I wasn't even aware Rashid Khalidi was considered an anti-Semetic. Doesn't he teach a Columbia University? Shock!:eek: By association I guess that makes them anti-Semetic as well! I bet he may even have friends amongst the faculty!

Really, I'm more then boyed by the fact Obama seems to be open minded and dedicated to see the various points of view. Because you know, just because you might question how the Palestine/Israel conflict has been handled doesn't actually mean one is anti-semetic. Especially if Obama's actual stance is as it seems - that is resolving the conflict in a way that is works for both sides and ends the bloodshed and pain. Again both sides. Booooth. Siiiiides.

And "surrounding" - you make it sound like Obama is putting together a Legion of Super Evil.

[Typo Lad]

Bri,

As someone who's amily is very, very involved in Jewish US political life, you're way off base here.

One of Obama's best friends and closts advisors is Nate Diamond, President of the Orthodox Union, one of the largest Jewish orginizations in the word.

The guy's a huge friend to my people.

[C-Cool]

And....

Problem solved.

Can we move on to better topics than this.

I give this topic 2 out of 5 Karl Roves. Not enough haterade towards "Liberal scum".

We can all improve. But some don't have that much time to do so.

This is the case for the OP.

[Briareos]

Ah, the old "guilt by association" - I would have thought all these weak attempts as character assassination would have drained the tar supplies long ago. Oh well.

What exactly has Obama done that would qualify as anti-Semitism? To be honest I wasn't even aware Rashid Khalidi was considered an anti-Semetic. Doesn't he teach a Columbia University? Shock!:eek: By association I guess that makes them anti-Semetic as well!

Really, I'm more then boyed by the fact Obama seems to be open minded and dedicated to working with both sides. Because you know, just because you might question how the Palestine/Israel has been handled doesn't actually mean one is anti-semetic. Especially if Obama's actual stance is as it seems - that is resolving the conflict in a way that is works for both sides and ends the bloodshed and pain. Again both sides. Booooth. Siiiiides.

And "surrounding" - you make it sound like Obama is putting together a Legion of Super Evil.

Obama attened a going away party for a PLO member.... If someone attened a party for a well known KKK member wouldn't you consider their views on African Americans suspect?

[Jack Zodiac]

This is gonna decide the election for me:

Does John McCain hate cunts- whoops! I mean women, does John McCain hate painted up trollop women more than Barack Obama hates Jews?

[glue]

Obama attened a going away party for a PLO member.... If someone attened a party for a well known KKK member wouldn't you consider their views on African Americans suspect?

Brilliant.

[mattx110]

Bri,

As someone who's amily is very, very involved in Jewish US political life, you're way off base here.

One of Obama's best friends and closts advisors is Nate Diamond, President of the Orthodox Union, one of the largest Jewish orginizations in the word.

The guy's a huge friend to my people.
Typo is way Jewier than I am. Believe him here. (You don't need to "believe", more look at the facts and adjust accordinly)

[glue]

This is gonna decide the election for me:

Does John McCain hate cunts- whoops! I mean women, does John McCain hate painted up trollop women more than Barack Obama hates Jews?

Little known fact: John McCain actually ghostwrote Daz's verse on "Bitches Ain't Shit".

[Jack Zodiac]

If this is so innocent why is Obama trying to downplay his relationship with him...

'Cause he's smart enough to know when to ignore the really ridiculous bullshit, like when stupid assholes attempt to connect him to former terrorists who attacked their own country when he was, like, fuckin' six. He knows that the people who might be swayed by idiotic shit like this were probably on the fence about him anyway, with a strong leaning towards "won't vote black." A bullshit excuse like, "oh, he might be friends with terrorists" is just a nice, easy "get out of being racist free" card.

[KevinTBrown]

Briareos:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/lpbk2713/cry_baby.jpg

[Adam C]

Oh god to suggest that makes both sides even remotely equal is silly.

We're talking about extremist settlers throwing rocks at school children in addition to threatening and assassinating left-wing Israeli critics. They're resorting to violence to achieve their political goals. They're using them same methods as Bin Laden or the IRA rather than legitimate political action.

And I find it interesting how you phrase this in terms of "sides." While the Amnesty Report suggests that the Israeli authorities have tolerated the settlers throwing rocks at schoolchildren, the other articles also clearly state the the settlers have taken to vandalising Israeli army equipment, positions, and cars because the Israeli state does not uniformly support them.

[Kyuubi]

Eh it's borderline. I wouldn't have been too comfortable with it but it's no where near Wright's insane hateful ramblings...

Oh?


http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTgwNTdiZTNjNjdlMThlNDExZmZiYWQ0MGUyYTM4ZjE=

Muthee began his life in ministry in Africa by hunting down a local woman named Mama Jane after proclaiming her a witch. Six months of fervent prayer and research identified the source of the witchcraft as a local woman called Mama Jane, who ran a “divination” centre called the Emmanuel Clinic in Kiambu, Kenya. Her alleged involvement in fortune-telling and the fact that she lived near the site of a number of fatal car accidents led Pastor Muthee to publicly declare her a witch responsible for the town’s ills, and order her to offer up her soul for salvation or leave Kiambu. After Pastor Muthee declared Mama Jane a witch, the townspeople became suspicious and began to turn on her, demanding that she be stoned. Public outrage eventually led the police to raid her home, where they fired gunshots, killing a pet python which they believed to be a demon.

[KJ_81]

This is a joke thread right? No-one could actually be this stupid.


Right?

[KJ_81]

This is a joke thread right? No-one could actually be this stupid.


Right?

[Cam63]

Wake me up when it's over.

[MacQuarrie]

How can anyone vote for him is beyond me:

That's easy. They don't like the alternative.

Let's face facts. I say this as somebody who has in his lifetime voted for Gerry Ford, Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole, and George W. Bush (should have known better; I hated his father and didn't vote for him). John McCain is an absurd joke of a candidate, and his running mate is a prank. I expect Ashton Kutcher to jump out at the next Palin speech and yell "I punked you! I go tyou so good!"

If you think you can "win ugly" by making Obama look worse than Captain Waffler and his vacuous twit of a pandering VP nominee, you will be sadly disappointed.

I'm not convinced that Barack Obama is the love-child of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King; he doesn't heal people or walk on water, he doesn't have all the answers, he's not the Divinely Appointed Leader Who Will Guide Us Out Of The Darkness. He doesn't shit soft-serve vanilla ice cream.

But you know what? I can live with him for four years, if the alternative is continuing the shafting we've been getting for the last 8 years. I for one have had just about enough of an Imperial President and (especially) Vice President sitting there in Washington and making up shit to peddle to the American people. Listening to Dick Cheney inventing new clauses to the Constitution in order to avoid public scrutiny is sickening.

The current economic crisis is a 100% bipartisan mess, created by short-sighted politicians on both sides of the aisle with pockets stuffed full of lobbyists' money, but I'm hearing a lot more finger-pointing and blame-casting coming from the Right. I'm not hearing a lot of "straight talk" from the guy who helped Charles Keating perpetrate the last round of "screw the people", who is also eyeball-deep in this one., one Senator John McCain.

I'll probably vote for whatever cartoon the Libertarians put up. I can't in good conscience vote for McCain under any circumstances, and that idiotic stunt-casting of Palin just sealed the deal. I'll send a message in my own little way by refusing to buy into the binary red-or-blue horse-race that the media want to run.

But that's how anyone can vote for Obama; we're sick of what McCain is selling. Period.

[Linkara]

Oh, for crying out loud, Bri, I don't like Obama either, but that's just silly. If we're going to bring up guilt by association, what about the fact that he launched his campaign from Bill Ayers' living room? THAT at least has some standing, even if I don't believe Obama seriously shares any of the guy's views.

[Charles RB]

Yes...how is criticising the actions of the Israeli state anti-semitism?

The Israeli opposition parties are anti-semites! :eek:

[ShaunN]

Dear Briareos,

I must strongly disagree with you here. Obama is clearly not an anti-Semite (or, more accurately, anti-Jewish, given that the Palestinians are Semites too).

What I find disturbing about your posts is your apparent complete lack of sympathy for/understanding of the Palestinian situation. To be frank, Obama could not be an informed intellectual without learning about and becoming somewhat sympathetic to the Palestinians. As a black man living in America, his own experience of racism would have to resonate with what the Palestinians have experienced. In the final analysis, anyone with intellectual honesty and who approaches the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from a position of neutrality could not help but conclude that the Palestinians have a powerful case and some kind of solution - be it two-state, or the creation of a binational state - must acknowledge the injustice done to these people.

What I fear is that Obama, precisely because of his vulnerability on charges that he is pro-Muslim/Arab, will not do the right thing when he is in office - the right thing being putting pressure on both sides, including but especially the Israelis - to make the concessions necessary for peace. Obama may end up like so many other American politicians - i.e., saying what is truthful and right about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict after they leave office and when they are no longer in any position to actually make policy. (I'm thinking of Jimmy Carter, specifically, though, in Carter's defence, the expansion of Jewish settlements and many of the other factors that have made the conflict so intractable were not nearly as bad when he was in office). The fact that Obama has, in his official statements, moved so far away from his original, balanced positions on this issue is, I fear, an indication of everything to come. And that would be really tragic.

Recently, Ehud Olmert, the outgoing Prime Minister of Israel, admitted that he had been wrong about everything re: the Palestinians in his long career. He saw the need for a two state solution, he recognized the threat to Israeli democracy from occupying and brutalizing another people, he understood the huge mistakes he had made in helping spread Jewish settlers over the Occupied Territories and in East Jerusalem. But, he is on his way out and politically hobbled, so he can't act on his revelations. Many Israeli political leaders and citizens are honest enough to understand the realities of the situation on the ground and recognize that they (the state of Israel) is both in the wrong on most of these issue and, at the same time, hanging on the edge of a cliff in terms of its political and democratic character. Within Israeli society, there are many citizens who are far more critical of their government than is acceptable within popular American discourse. Sadly, the governing Kadima Party is probably going to call an election and it is likely that the hardline Likud will win. If that happens. Obama is going to be in a tough place - dealing with a (fundamentally) racist Israeli government that is determined to dig as deep a hole for itself as possible, while having to deal with pressure from pro-Israel factions at home who regard any criticism of Israel as a "betrayal".

This is the sad part. It is unconditional US support of Israel for the past 3 decades that has enabled Israeli governments to make the situation on the ground in Palestine so much worse. (For example, doubling the number of Jewish settlers in the OT during the Oslo Peace period). The inability of the US to rein in Israel has helped to create this situation. If the US had been able to approach the conflict with good sense and a real balance, it is likely that the conflict would have been over long ago. As I said, I expect that Obama may be unable to do what is right on this issue because of the political dangers at home. And that is unfortunate, because reforming the American image around the world and reaching out to people in the Muslim world is heavily connected to fairness and justice in the Arab-Israeli conflict. Avoiding a stupid, pointless war with Iran is, in part, connected to resisting pressure from the pro-Israel lobby. It would be sad to see another wasted opportunity for US foreign policy and the people in the region because US politicians cannot stand up to Israel's "supporters" in the US. (And I use the word "supporters" guardedly, because it has been knee-jerk, reflexive support for Israel, no matter what atrocious policies Israel has followed, that has put that state in a far more dangerous position today than at any time in the past 25 years. It is a bizarre notion of "support" or "friendship" that means you can't say when the other party is wrong).

Sincerely,

Shaun

[Alix Harrower]

How can anyone vote for him is beyond me:


Long division, spelling, and setting the clock on the VCR are all beyond you, too.

[TomStillwell]

Oh, for crying out loud, Bri, I don't like Obama either, but that's just silly. If we're going to bring up guilt by association, what about the fact that he launched his campaign from Bill Ayers' living room? THAT at least has some standing, even if I don't believe Obama seriously shares any of the guy's views.

Link, please go beyond the Republican talking points if you're going to post and actually use facts. Obama did not launch his campaign in Bill Ayers' living room.

[Infra-Man]

Oh, for crying out loud, Bri, I don't like Obama either, but that's just silly. If we're going to bring up guilt by association, what about the fact that he launched his campaign from Bill Ayers' living room? THAT at least has some standing, even if I don't believe Obama seriously shares any of the guy's views.

To Tom's comments, I'll add this:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html

[4PointOh]

Eh it's borderline. I wouldn't have been too comfortable with it but it's no where near Wright's insane hateful ramblings...

"Borderline" anti-Semitism. LMAO! So perceived anti-Semitism is cool as long as it comes from white people? LMAO!

[JeffreyWKramer]

Can there be any doubt now:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story

Any doubt that you're stupid and insane?

No, there's none whatsoever.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Seriously, Samurai at least had the decency to find a message board full of people that shared his warped views and leave the rest of us in peace.


Has Samurai gone away, like officially?

If so, this is the best news I've heard in a couple weeks at least.

[BnL]

Has Samurai gone away, like officially?

If so, this is the best news I've heard in a couple weeks at least.

I think he said he wouldn't be posting until after the election.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Um...

One speaker likened "Zionist settlers on the West Bank" to Osama bin Laden, saying both had been "blinded by ideology."

Yeah...

Sounds 100% correct to me.

Keep in mind, a lot of Israelis see the west bank settlers the same way.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Do you know anything about political extremism among the settler population in the West Bank?


Does he know anything about anything, other than what talk radio idiots tell him? Seems highly doubtful.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Eh it's borderline. I wouldn't have been too comfortable with it but it's no where near Wright's insane hateful ramblings...

As always, rationalization for your side's idiots.

I wonder if any of them would do the same for you.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Long division, spelling, and setting the clock on the VCR are all beyond you, too.

Probably ass-wiping, too.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I think he said he wouldn't be posting until after the election.

Well, that's something at least. Not nearly as good as "gone for good", though.

[TCJohnson]

I think he said he wouldn't be posting until after the election.

Well, technically he said he would be back after McCain wins.

[Agent Helix]

Hooray! He's gone forever!

[JeffreyWKramer]

Well, technically he said he would be back after McCain wins.

Let's hope for once in recorded history he is honest and keeps his word.

[Charles RB]

I think he said he wouldn't be posting until after the election.

That's when he posts a suicide letter.

[TCJohnson]

It comes down to this: being Pro-Palestinian does not make you anti-semetic. This is not a football game where you can only root for one side.

[Typo Lad]

That's nicely put, TC.

[bert]

How can anyone vote for him is beyond me:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmed-msm-holds-video-of-barack.html

you really are a piece of shit Briareos.

I mean, I know lots of conservative Republicans. . but you REALLY give them a bad name.


how you can post crap like this, as if you even believe it. . . . shame on you.

[sk716]

How can anyone vote for him is beyond me:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmed-msm-holds-video-of-barack.html

Why you continue to post lies and misinformation when there is an entire internet full of research and articles to dispute your filth is what's beyond me.

Please cease and desist.

[sk716]

you really are a piece of shit Briareos.

I mean, I know lots of conservative Republicans. . but you REALLY give them a bad name.


how you can post crap like this, as if you even believe it. . . . shame on you.

Watch the name-calling, bert.

Bri wants you to get pissed off and go off on him so he can play the martyr card.

[sk716]

Any doubt that you're stupid and insane?

No, there's none whatsoever.

My previous goes for you as well, Jeff.

[Lester C.]

I need to start another attention whore thread so everyone can take out their aggression on me. That is my contribution to YABS.:cool:

[Alex Scott]

Bri: You might find this link (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2020:16;&version=9;) useful. I don't think I've ever seen you follow its advice.

[GozertheGozarian]

We need to get Obama to start posting here. Imagine the fun if Bri and Sam were forced to stop talking shit.

[Linkara]

To Tom's comments, I'll add this:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html

Hmmm. Okay, fair enough.

[CutterMike]

We need to get Obama to start posting here. Imagine the fun if Bri and Sam were forced to stop talking shit.That would be exactly what they want.

He'd have to spend so much time here shoveling away at their bullshit that he'd never have time to campaign anywhere else.

...And it's not like I've seen any instances where reasoned argument has worked on either of them yet!

[GozertheGozarian]

That would be exactly what they want.

He'd have to spend so much time here shoveling away at their bullshit that he'd never have time to campaign anywhere else.

...And it's not like I've seen any instances where reasoned argument has worked on either of them yet!
MOD says no attacking posters. Anti-Obama threads would have to stop.

[MacQuarrie]

Bri, if you don't mind a little helpful advice, I think you'd make a lot more headway and encounter a lot less hostility if you made an effort to do a few things....

1. Know your facts and where you got them, and verify them before you post.
2. Never cut-and-paste anybody else's words. Restate the point in your own words.
3. Avoid sloganeering and buzzwords at all costs. If your opinion will fit on a bumper sticker, it isn't worth expressing. Think deeper.
4. Don't buy the party line about anything. If you're parroting what Rush or Drudge or Rove said, it's not your ideas, it's not your opinion and it's not honest. It's a sales pitch. As Bruce Springsteen once said, "blind faith in your leaders will get you killed." Even if you agree with what Rush or Drudge or Rove said, think through your own reasoning, based on your own examination of the facts. Never take anybody's word for anything. Again, what are the facts and where did you get them, and to how many decimal places have you tested them?
5. Attempt to refute the argument yourself before you go public with it. Have an answer for the inevitable objections. Know what you believe, why you believe it, and how to defend it.
6. No demonization of the opposition. You may think that Barack Obama's policies and programs are wrong-headed and destined to fail; that does not mean he is deliberately trying to destroy the country. Democrats are not trying to drive the country into moral decay and societal collapse; they're trying to create more security and equality for everyone. Whether it will work or not is another question, but accusing them of evil motives does not help anyone.
7. No whitewashing of your own side. George W. Bush has screwed up a lot. Dick Cheney has abused the Constitution in ways that nobody else has ever thought of in over 230 years. As conservatives, we have to admit it or we have zero credibility.
8. Think for yourself. Don't wait for the email to come telling you this week's campaign slogans and talking points. Make up your own and make sure they're bulletproof.

Apply these principles, and you'll do much better.

[section 8]

Bri: You might find this link (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2020:16;&version=9;) useful. I don't think I've ever seen you follow its advice.

Can I still Covet my neighbor's ass?

[bert]

Watch the name-calling, bert.

Bri wants you to get pissed off and go off on him so he can play the martyr card.

you're correct.

my Apologies for the name calling, Bri.

instead, I'll just post this lovely, Presidental pic of McCain everytime Bri posts a lie about Obama or simply parrots the Republican party line.

http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00210/mccain_210766b.jpg

[bert]

Can I still Covet my neighbor's ass?

why not? . . McCain covets Obama's.

yep, it's true, McCain is a gay man who's into Black Men's booty!

I have photographic proof! so it's reall, I tell you!

http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00210/mccain_210766b.jpg

[TomStillwell]

Hmmm. Okay, fair enough.

How big of you.

"I've been passing lies off as truth because I didn't bother to fact check a Republican talking point, so I'll begrudging acknowledge the truth when confronted."

[mattx110]

I think he said he wouldn't be posting until after the election.
I like Sam...

He's not that bad.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I like Sam...

He's not that bad.

Compared to what? Genocide? Antrax outbreaks?

[Typo Lad]

I like him too.

I think his "ideals" are dangerous though.

Mainly because they show he doesn't think for himself at all.

[the4thpip]

Watch the name-calling, bert.

Bri wants you to get pissed off and go off on him so he can play the martyr card.

I don't think he is that cunning.

He just likes screaming and lying.

[Linkara]

How big of you.

"I've been passing lies off as truth because I didn't bother to fact check a Republican talking point, so I'll begrudging acknowledge the truth when confronted."

Oh, for the love of Heidegger, that's not what I meant, Tom. Allow me to spell it out more simply then: I was wrong, I'm sorry. There.

[section 8]

Compared to what? Genocide? Antrax outbreaks?

I agree that Sam, (though misguided on a couple of topics) Isn't that bad,

Why is it (on both sides) so popular to demonize someone for simply not agreeing with you?

[Michael P]

Why is it (on both sides) so popular to demonize someone for simply not agreeing with you?

It makes one feel good.

[section 8]

By making others feel or look bad?

That cannot be healthy

[Michael P]

By making others feel or look bad?

That cannot be healthy

Hi, welcome to Earth. Let me take your coat.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Why is it (on both sides) so popular to demonize someone for simply not agreeing with you?


It's not about ideological differences.

It's about him being a habitual liar, something that has been demonstrated repeatedly. It's also about his defense of the indefensible and his advocating loathesome things.

I know, it's really weird, this idea of considering habitual dishonesty and hatemongering to be a bad thing. I guess I'm just strange that way.

[Buzz Dixon]

Hi, welcome to Earth. Let me take your coat.Dibs on his wallet!

[Tobias March]

Dibs on his wallet!

I'm having his shoes!

[TCJohnson]

I agree that Sam, (though misguided on a couple of topics) Isn't that bad,

Why is it (on both sides) so popular to demonize someone for simply not agreeing with you?

There are several posters here that I disagree with frequently and I don't demonize them. Get a little frusterated with them, but I try to remember to be respecful.

WIth Samurai, however, a lot of his posts come off as really racist and bigoted in a foul way, and I have trouble dealing with that. Gail Simone keeps saying she doesn't think bigotry shouldn't be tolerated, and I can't tolerate Samurai.

[section 8]

I may not be Familiar with the posts of which you speak, but Sam seems to operate more from ignorance than blind hatred or bigotry.

I would say unto you the same thing i say unto Fire and Brimstone Preachers

"What Hope do you have of converting someone if you first condemn them?"

Sam. as I've said is not perfect, Mainly Misguided and ignorant ( not stupid, just Ignorant, I honestly believe Sam does not know any better) sometimes Stubborn, but NOT beyond hope.

I've seen Subtle Bigotry on this board before, not blatant or obvious, and it's gone for the most part, un-noticed ............And that is all i will say on that matter, no need to repeat THAT conversation....But I do believe "Popularity" does play a role in what is and is not acceptable here ( By the majority....not Mods, Mods are doing a fine job, Outstanding work, ..Please don't hurt me )

[Samurai]

How can anyone vote for him is beyond me:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmed-msm-holds-video-of-barack.html

Bri, Bri. Bri... don't you know that many people are voting for him precisely because he's an anti-semite? They want to end the "stranglehold of the Jewish lobby", get back at the Mossad for committing the 9/11 attacks, and end support for the "Zionist Apartheid state" (as Jimmah Cahtah calls it). Jesse Jackson even bragged that "Zionists who have controlled American policy for decades" would lose some of their influence with Obama in the White House, and that "decades of putting Israel's interests first" would come to a close. This is a message the Obama base WANTS to hear, they are HAPPY about it, so announcing he has dinners with Hamas and Hezbullah-supporting radicals and anti-semites is good news, and shows Obama's dedication to their cause...

(Like Bloody Mary, say my name 3 times and I appear... ;) )

[Infra-Man]

Bri, Bri. Bri... don't you know that many people are voting for him precisely because he's an anti-semite? They want to end the "stranglehold of the Jewish lobby", get back at the Mossad for committing the 9/11 attacks, and end support for the "Zionist Apartheid state" (as Jimmah Cahtah calls it). Jesse Jackson even bragged that "Zionists who have controlled American policy for decades" would lose some of their influence with Obama in the White House, and that "decades of putting Israel's interests first" would come to a close. This is a message the Obama base WANTS to hear, they are HAPPY about it, so announcing he has dinners with Hamas and Hezbullah-supporting radicals and anti-semites is good news, and shows Obama's dedication to their cause...

(Like Bloody Mary, say my name 3 times and I appear... ;) )

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/LIEFAIL.jpg

[CutterMike]

It's like Beetlejuice -- if you say his name three times...

Yeah... I know... He already admitted it

It bears repeating.

Sam -- since you clearly can't understand that it's possible to support Israel's right to exist while opposing racism among a small group of Israelis, let's put it this way and see if it works:

Most, if not all, of the settlers in the occupied territories are Middle-Eastern Religious Fundamentalists. You KNOW that you hate Middle-Eastern Religious Fundamentalists. Middle-Eastern Religious Fundamentalists are EEEEEE-vil!

Remember...?

[Samurai]

I may not be Familiar with the posts of which you speak, but Sam seems to operate more from ignorance than blind hatred or bigotry.

I would say unto you the same thing i say unto Fire and Brimstone Preachers

"What Hope do you have of converting someone if you first condemn them?"

Sam. as I've said is not perfect, Mainly Misguided and ignorant ( not stupid, just Ignorant, I honestly believe Sam does not know any better) sometimes Stubborn, but NOT beyond hope.

I've seen Subtle Bigotry on this board before, not blatant or obvious, and it's gone for the most part, un-noticed ............And that is all i will say on that matter, no need to repeat THAT conversation....But I do believe "Popularity" does play a role in what is and is not acceptable here ( By the majority....not Mods, Mods are doing a fine job, Outstanding work, ..Please don't hurt me )

You really don't know me well enough to be saying that, Section 8. I'd wager I'm far better educated than you, or most of the people on this board. I have degrees in History and Social Science, with double honors (both my major and general education), and I spend WAY too much time keeping up with both national and international news. I've lived in a foreign country and experienced a different culture first hand for 2 years (that seems to be a big thing with the Palin detractors...)

And Typo, I do think for myself. You may not like my "ideals", but they are mine and mine alone, no one tells me what to think, and that most definitely includes the PC crowd around here. I study a topic, research it, and reach my own conclusions. Sometimes they fall in line with the popular conclusions others have reached, sometimes they are relatively unique to myself, but they are always my own, not what someone said. Which is more than I can say for the Kool-aid drinking zombie Obots that lap up any excuse or lie fed to them by Obama to explain away his numerous troubling associations, errors in judgement, blunders, and Freudian slips.

[MacQuarrie]

Which is more than I can say for the Kool-aid drinking zombie Obots that lap up any excuse or lie fed to them by Obama to explain away his numerous troubling associations, errors in judgement, blunders, and Freudian slips.
A really offensive phrase. The people who drank the Kool-Aid at Guyana did so unwillingly at gunpoint. Everyone who uses this phrase is by definition an ignorant asshole with zero credibility in my book. Please don't do so again.

Meanwhile, what about those people who don't think highly of Obama, but regard McCain as a criminal (member of the Keating Five, remember?) and Sarah Palin as a completely unqualified joke of a candidate who was chosen strictly on teh basis of pandering to select demographics without any thought given to the question of who would make a good Vice PResident? What about us?

It' snot a frigging binary world.

[Cam63]

Can I still Covet my neighbor's ass?

Does your neighbour have a nice arse ?

[Cam63]

I'm having his shoes!

The Irish always go for the shoes.

*Check pockets for beer*

[section 8]

You really don't know me well enough to be saying that, Section 8. I'd wager I'm far better educated than you, or most of the people on this board. I have degrees in History and Social Science, with double honors (both my major and general education), and I spend WAY too much time keeping up with both national and international news. I've lived in a foreign country and experienced a different culture first hand for 2 years (that seems to be a big thing with the Palin detractors...)




I did not mean to imply otherwise, Please let me rephrase.
When i said Mainly Misguided and ignorant ( not stupid, just Ignorant, I honestly believe Sam does not know any better)

What i meant was that you might have said something without realizing how offensive it may sound, But my point was you do not seem to operate from hatred.

Or as i've learned on this board, your words might be twisted to be used against you, but I do not know the whole story, and i really do not wish to get roped into an endless aregument.

Sorry if my post offended you , but please remember i was DEFENDING you, not attacking you.

[Cam63]

Bri, Bri. Bri... don't you know that many people are voting for him precisely because he's an anti-semite? They want to end the "stranglehold of the Jewish lobby", get back at the Mossad for committing the 9/11 attacks, and end support for the "Zionist Apartheid state" (as Jimmah Cahtah calls it). Jesse Jackson even bragged that "Zionists who have controlled American policy for decades" would lose some of their influence with Obama in the White House, and that "decades of putting Israel's interests first" would come to a close. This is a message the Obama base WANTS to hear, they are HAPPY about it, so announcing he has dinners with Hamas and Hezbullah-supporting radicals and anti-semites is good news, and shows Obama's dedication to their cause...

(Like Bloody Mary, say my name 3 times and I appear... ;) )

Welcome back, Samuel.

...Nothing's changed, eh ?

[Samurai]

A really offensive phrase. The people who drank the Kool-Aid at Guyana did so unwillingly at gunpoint. Everyone who uses this phrase is by definition an ignorant asshole with zero credibility in my book. Please don't do so again.

Meanwhile, what about those people who don't think highly of Obama, but regard McCain as a criminal (member of the Keating Five, remember?) and Sarah Palin as a completely unqualified joke of a candidate who was chosen strictly on teh basis of pandering to select demographics without any thought given to the question of who would make a good Vice PResident? What about us?

It' snot a frigging binary world.

You're right... no one is holding a gun to the Obots heads, they are marching along either willingly or unwittingly.

And McCain was cleared in the Keating 5 thing, remember? So, not a criminal. But if you are THAT sensitive to both the appearance of impropriety and inexperience, HOW IN THE WORLD can you vote for Obama, who has BOTH? Not only did Obama have dealings with Tony Rezko, including buying houses together (in which Obama got a special deal) and Obama writing letters to recommend Rezko get several housing projects (which he turned into slums), and not only did Obama go to Kenya in 2006 on taxpayer money to campaign for his murdering cousin Odinga and Obama got his top contributers to give $1 million to Odinga's campaign (which turned into a bloodbath when Odinga lost), and not only did Obama get the 2nd highest all-time amount of contributions from Fannie and Freddie in just 2 years, but in addition Obama gave $832,000 to ACORN to pay for their fraudulent "get out the vote" campaign that has resulted in over 400,000 fraudulent names being registered (and still counting) and charges/indictments in 14 states so far. And Obama helped them to bring lawsuits against banks in order to pressure the banks to give more unsecured loans to people who normally would never have qualified, which helped create the whole housing crash we're in!

On top of all that, Obama has less experience than Sarah Palin! They have equally short political careers, but she has executive experience at running a state and a city, he has nothing of the sort. She fought big oil, got tax refunds for Alaskans, negotiated the largest man-made project in the history of North America (!), and fought corruption in both her own party and the other. He only say in Congress, voted "Present 130 times instead of making tough decisions, campaigned for his next job instead of doing the job he was elected for, never convened the Senate subcommittee he was put in charge of even once, and never passed any meaningful, ground-breaking legislation or bucked his party leaders.

So, if you are concerned with the appearance of corruption and inexperienced leadership, your choice on Nov 4 should be very clear to you now.

[Cam63]

Sam, the choice is clear... You either vote for helping save the world or you vote for helping end it.

[Samurai]

I did not mean to imply otherwise, Please let me rephrase.
When i said

What i meant was that you might have said something without realizing how offensive it may sound, But my point was you do not seem to operate from hatred.

Or as i've learned on this board, your words might be twisted to be used against you, but I do not know the whole story, and i really do not wish to get roped into an endless aregument.

Sorry if my post offended you , but please remember i was DEFENDING you, not attacking you.

Apology accepted, but for the record, I operate from neither hatred NOR ignorance. I realize that some around here may not like what I say or agree with it, but that difference of opinion is part of what makes America so great. You're right, they try to twist my words, use them against me, and dredge all kinds of "hidden meanings" from them because they "know what my kind really think", but when they do that, it is their ignorance on parade, not mine.

[Samurai]

Sam, the choice is clear... You either vote for helping save the world or you vote for helping end it.

I agree 100%.

And I choose to save the world by voting McCain, not end it by voting Obama.

[section 8]

Well i'm pretty sure the world is coming to an end reguardless of what we do,

Should i just Not vote?

[Cam63]

I agree 100%.

And I choose to save the world by voting McCain, not end it by voting Obama.

Every election, I hope I'm crossing the right box.

Nothing is as clear cut as we would like.

[Samurai]

Welcome back, Samuel.

...Nothing's changed, eh ?

Oh, some things have changed a lot. If you told me months ago that I'd be spending most of my time on a Hillary Clinton forum, I'd have thought you must be crazy. But the PUMAs are a great bunch of people, very dedicated, and while we may not agree on all the issues, we do agree on the need to, as you put it, "save the world" by voting for McCain, not Obama.

[Samurai]

Well i'm pretty sure the world is coming to an end reguardless of what we do,

Should i just Not vote?

That depends... who were you going to vote for if you did vote...? ;)

[Cam63]

Well i'm pretty sure the world is coming to an end reguardless of what we do,

Should i just Not vote?

Nah... Give it a shot.

[jelessedil]

You're right... no one is holding a gun to the Obots heads, they are marching along either willingly or unwittingly.

And McCain was cleared in the Keating 5 thing, remember? So, not a criminal. But if you are THAT sensitive to both the appearance of impropriety and inexperience, HOW IN THE WORLD can you vote for Obama, who has BOTH? Not only did Obama have dealings with Tony Rezko, including buying houses together (in which Obama got a special deal) and Obama writing letters to recommend Rezko get several housing projects (which he turned into slums), and not only did Obama go to Kenya in 2006 on taxpayer money to campaign for his murdering cousin Odinga and Obama got his top contributers to give $1 million to Odinga's campaign (which turned into a bloodbath when Odinga lost), and not only did Obama get the 2nd highest all-time amount of contributions from Fannie and Freddie in just 2 years, but in addition Obama gave $832,000 to ACORN to pay for their fraudulent "get out the vote" campaign that has resulted in over 400,000 fraudulent names being registered (and still counting) and charges/indictments in 14 states so far. And Obama helped them to bring chages against banks in order to pressure the banks to give more unsecured loans to people who normally would never have qualified, which helped create the whole housing crash we're in!

On top of all that, Obama has less experience than Sarah Palin! They have equally short political careers, but she has executive experience at running a state and a city, he has nothing of the sort. She fought big oil, got tax refunds for Alaskans, negotiated the largest man-made project in the history of North America (!), and fought corruption in both her own party and the other. He only say in Congress, voted "Present 130 times instead of making tough decisions, campaigned for his next job instead of doing the job he was elected for, never convened the Senate subcommittee he was put in charge of even once, and never passed any meaningful, ground-breaking legislation or bucked his party leaders.

So, if you are concerned with the appearance of corruption and inexperienced leadership, your choice on Nov 4 should be very clear to you now.

Not going to bother to play tit for tat with Mcain/Obama but can you point me in the direction of all these things you say Palin did? I've lived in Alaska for 12 years now and have yet to see any of those things...

Big Oil - not sure how she fought Big Oil? care to explain...from my past years here in Alaska, she attempted to get them to sign off on a 35+ billion dollar gas pipeline that most likely never will happen, amazingly even though they passed the AGIA act, no where in the document can you find a clause that actually forces anyone to build anything. She did in fact work with the legislature to inact higher taxes (windfall!!!Socialism!!!) and give that money back to the people on top of the PFD they already recieve, so not sure that the $3269 each Alaska citizen recieved who qualified is not some form of socialism. Prior to her taking office the legislative ethics bill was already being written and the VECO scandal was already taking place.

Tax Refund - Alaskan's don't pay any state taxes so not sure how she got us a refund? Kinda hard to figure that one out...the federal gov't gave us all a stimulus check maybe that's what you mean. I know I sure didn't recieve any kinda refund on my Anchorage property taxes.

AGIA - ohh that pesky pipeline pact she worked ohh so hard to come to that she had to bribe the democratic legislatures to help pass the bill. What does it actually include, lets see a Canadian company gets $500 million dollars to build nothing, they actually cannot build the pipeline unless the Federal Gov't accepts their bid (FERC) and that no sure thing since the Conco/BP group is prepared to do the same and under federal law only one company can get the bid. so lets see a Canadian company that the state is giving $500 million to, or the actual lease holders of the natural gas on the slope...it's going to be a tough choice there.

Mayor of Wasilla - not sure where you think thats a tough job but Wasilla is a very small town and when she was Mayor, the budget increased, she accepted and asked for state earmarks, and didn't really do much else.

Governer - Been kinda out of the office if you know what I mean, she's had a few scandals and since prior to her being on the big stage and all, no one out of Alaska has heard of them, but those who do know, the Mat Maid debacle was a pretty good issue of things to come and there is always that pesky troopergate thing as well.

If you honestly thing Sarah Palin is your answer to a qualified VP pick then there are more issues with the Republican party than I can imagine.

I've been pretty vague in the post on specifics about Palin but they are not to hard to find, a good reasource for her issues since office would be Andrew Halcro's blog, people thing he is to smart for his own good, but heck I'd like to see a smart person in office for once :)


Evan

[C-Cool]

Wait....

PUMA's still around?

Wow...

[Tobias March]

Wait....

PUMA's still around?

Wow...

That was Sam baiting y'all. Don't worry about it.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Wait....

PUMA's still around?

Wow...

Never underestimate a good grudge. :rolleyes:

http://www.firstshowing.net/img/grudge-event-front.jpg

[Cam63]

Grudges are good for some things.

...If you can get away with it.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I agree 100%.

And I choose to save the world by voting McCain, not end it by voting Obama.

So a man with obvious anger issues in charge of the miltary might of a nation is the way to save the world ?

Well i'm pretty sure the world is coming to an end reguardless of what we do,

Should i just Not vote?

The world was coming to an end the moment Chinese Democracy was annouced for release. Your in the final days...

Oh, some things have changed a lot. If you told me months ago that I'd be spending most of my time on a Hillary Clinton forum, I'd have thought you must be crazy. But the PUMAs are a great bunch of people, very dedicated, and while we may not agree on all the issues, we do agree on the need to, as you put it, "save the world" by voting for McCain, not Obama.

Haven't most of the women voters realized Sarah Palin is a joke by now ? I know polls taken show that many women voters have dropped support and feel she's a fool. But hey whatever grudge they have and wanna put a woman into office thats good.

SNL needs someone to mock for 4 years.

Wait....

PUMA's still around?

Wow...

What amazes me is that the Hillary Clinton supporters would support a VP who wouldn't pay for rape kits and would pressure those who do have children thru rape to keep them. SICK.

[section 8]

What amazes me is that the Hillary Clinton supporters would support a VP who wouldn't pay for rape kits and would pressure those who do have children thru rape to keep them. SICK.

Especially since even Clinton herself does not.

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jJg4tOXz5VwmxwIInpg67cSXAFZw

[Crowley]

You're right... no one is holding a gun to the Obots heads, they are marching along either willingly or unwittingly.

And McCain was cleared in the Keating 5 thing, remember? So, not a criminal. But if you are THAT sensitive to both the appearance of impropriety and inexperience, HOW IN THE WORLD can you vote for Obama, who has BOTH? Not only did Obama have dealings with Tony Rezko, including buying houses together (in which Obama got a special deal) and Obama writing letters to recommend Rezko get several housing projects (which he turned into slums), and not only did Obama go to Kenya in 2006 on taxpayer money to campaign for his murdering cousin Odinga and Obama got his top contributers to give $1 million to Odinga's campaign (which turned into a bloodbath when Odinga lost), and not only did Obama get the 2nd highest all-time amount of contributions from Fannie and Freddie in just 2 years, but in addition Obama gave $832,000 to ACORN to pay for their fraudulent "get out the vote" campaign that has resulted in over 400,000 fraudulent names being registered (and still counting) and charges/indictments in 14 states so far. And Obama helped them to bring lawsuits against banks in order to pressure the banks to give more unsecured loans to people who normally would never have qualified, which helped create the whole housing crash we're in!

On top of all that, Obama has less experience than Sarah Palin! They have equally short political careers, but she has executive experience at running a state and a city, he has nothing of the sort. She fought big oil, got tax refunds for Alaskans, negotiated the largest man-made project in the history of North America (!), and fought corruption in both her own party and the other. He only say in Congress, voted "Present 130 times instead of making tough decisions, campaigned for his next job instead of doing the job he was elected for, never convened the Senate subcommittee he was put in charge of even once, and never passed any meaningful, ground-breaking legislation or bucked his party leaders.

So, if you are concerned with the appearance of corruption and inexperienced leadership, your choice on Nov 4 should be very clear to you now.

So does her executive experience mean she's more qualified than John McCain?
He's never had executive experience...

[Solaris]

How can anyone vote for him is beyond me:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/confirmed-msm-holds-video-of-barack.html

According to Wallsten the evening not surprisingly turned into a classic Jew-bash:


"During the dinner a young Palestinian American recited a poem accusing the Israeli government of terrorism in its treatment of Palestinians and sharply criticizing U.S. support of Israel. If Palestinians cannot secure their own land, she said, "then you will never see a day of peace."


Ummm... duh. Bri, how in hell did you somehow miss the thread a while back, where someone posted about this new program in Israel, where a lot of the Palestinian people were being given video cameras, because the Israeli Army had been doing some things that were mistreatment at the very least, and the cameras were meant to help both show it, and quell it?

I hate to break this to you, Bri, but the world is NOT black and white. Many people who support the existence of the state of Israel also condemn how the Israeli army, and sometimes government, have treated, or harmed, or discriminated against, Islamic/Palestinian peoples living within Israel. It's not about "Israeli vs. Palestinian;" it's not even about "Jewish vs. Muslim"---it's about inhumane and unfair treatmet of---gasp---PEOPLE.

If Obama is able to raise his glass to toast recognition that, no matter the good qualities of the State of Israel, there are also bad things happening that need to be acknowledged, addressed, and corrected, that does not make him "Anti-Semite," nor does it make him a supporter of terrorists.

I am happy that the Israeli people have a home. I respect the Jewish faith and people. I also know that I will speak out if someone is being mistreated, no matter who or what the parties on either end are.

And if, in the case of some of the things I've heard of happening to Palestinian peoples in Israel, speaking out against it, and asking/expecting the Israeli govt./army to meet out reaction only to those who deserve it by their own individual actions, rather than to anyone who happens to be Palestinian---well, if that makes me Anti-Semitic, it's not only news to me, but also to my many Jewish friends.

Viewpoints like yours, that try to make everything about race and religion, black and white, good guy and bad guy, are EXACTLY the problem. Innocent people on both sides of this particular equation have suffered wrongdoing. It's time we quit focusing on whether they're Israeli or Palestinian, and started focusing on "What are this person's basic human rights?" and "If those rights are being violated, speak out." It doesn't matter which "side" they're on... what matters is, people are being hurt, being treated unfairly, being blamed for what others of their race or religion are doing that *they* are NOT doing.

And until we can get past the "them and us" idea, and get to simply "us"... it'll keep happening.

And if you think that someone recognizing that and having the balls to stand up for it publically, despite knowing that petty, narrow-minded people are gonna try to stick a label on them for saying it, isn't courageous... you need to go back to "human school" and try learning all the lessons you missed the first time around.

[Samurai]

So does her executive experience mean she's more qualified than John McCain?
He's never had executive experience...

Not really. Executive experience is more applicable to an executive job (duh), but long experience in politics can teach you a lot too. So McCain has much more total experience, even if it wasn't as relevant. But since Obama and Palin have the same number of years of experience, you then look at relevance to see which is more qualified, and almost all of Palin's has been executive and leadership roles, while none of Obama's has been. So Palin wins.

Plus, Palin is running for the VP, where she'll gain more on-the-job experience. Obama, with less experience, is running for the top spot. As Biden said, expect him to be tested by the world, and for him to screw it up (according to most peoples' perceptions, he said).

[section 8]

That depends... who were you going to vote for if you did vote...? ;)

I know this was a joke originally but i still want to answer.

I have lost a lot of respect for McCain, but gained respect for Obama

I don't think either is a bad choice for the whitehouse

Palin gets on my last nerve, and i /like Biden.

so i'm leaning towards Obama, I agree with him on nearly everything except the war.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Not really. Executive experience is more applicable to an executive job (duh), but long experience in politics can teach you a lot too. So McCain has much more total experience, even if it wasn't as relevant. But since Obama and Palin have the same number of years of experience, you then look at relevance to see which is more qualified, and almost all of Palin's has been executive and leadership roles, while none of Obama's has been. So Palin wins.

Ok heres where Palin's "experince" was really overdone. Her own campaign couldn't give a time she did use the National Guard. They kept asking for this date and each answer was "She did...she did..." Poor John McCain got pissed and later folded up an interview with Larry King.

Her time as Mayor of that town she bragged she did so much in... well the Daily Show went there and fucking drove that to hell. Palin set in town meetings and did nothing much as the current mayor explained.

So yes... great experince for Sarah Palin. And with charges she commited fraud on things from flying her children for free , to trooper-gate to now allegations she floated a pipe contract to a company with close ties...yep she fits perfectly in Washington.



Plus, Palin is running for the VP, where she'll gain more on-the-job experience. Obama, with less experience, is running for the top spot.

Lord knows she couldn't get worse. I mean 2 weeks to go til the election and the fucking moron still has no clue what a VP does .

As Biden said, expect him to be tested by the world, and for him to screw it up (according to most peoples' perceptions, he said).

Of course he basically said Obama would show his mettle and make the good decisions . That he will be tested as much as anyone who becomes President and Obama will come thru . Yes it maybe worded bad (and SNL mocked it for fun) but the message to people was "Obama will step up and lead ."

And well McCain is 72....and if something happens do you really want a woman who doesn't know what a VP does still , can't really do a topic beyond Alaska and has never really no forgien policy experince at all to lead this country ?

Didn't we get the male version of Palin for 8 years ? Hows that worked out thus far ?

[Samurai]

I know this was a joke originally but i still want to answer.

I have lost a lot of respect for McCain, but gained respect for Obama

I don't think either is a bad choice for the whitehouse

Palin gets on my last nerve, and i /like Biden.

so i'm leaning towards Obama, I agree with him on nearly everything except the war.

If you aren't frightened of what a President Obama would do, you need more research. It's just that simple.

Look, I disagree with McCain on quite a few issues. From immigration amnesty to global warming to his refusal to drill in ANWR to his lousy campaign finance reform that came back to bite him in the rear. I expect to battle him on these and other issues if he becomes President.

But at least I know he is an honorable, decent, patriotic man who will do what he feels is right for this country, not just what's good for himself. And I honestly can't say ANY of those things about Barack Obama. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Obama's past, his numerous relationships and associations with terrorists and terrorist supporters (both foreign and domestic), a slum lord and influence peddler, an African warlord responsible for the murder of over 1000 people (including burning 35 people alive in a church) and 500,000 fleeing for their lives, a bigoted, racist preacher who claims white people invented AIDS to kill blacks, and a group that tried its best to rig the election with 400,000+ fake voter registrations, now up on charges in 14 states, and also responsible for helping cause the housing crisis. THIS is Obama's circle of close friends and associates, and they have been surrounding him for over 20 years.

He claims he didn't know anything... didn't know Ayers was an unrepentant terrorist, didn't know Wright preached hatred from the pulpit in the church he attended for 2 decades, didn't know Rezko was crooked, and didn't know that his $832,000 to ACORN would be used for voter fraud. All of these and more, he says he was blind to.

Now, it's up to you to decide whether he's telling the truth about that, but consider this: If he truly didn't know, couldn't see all of these things after so many years in close association, how blind and gullible is he? If he couldn't see Wright's racism after 20 years, how will he be able to negotiate with Ahmadinajad, Putin, and others? How will he be able to govern, appoint SC judges and cabinet positions, and make decisions when he doesn't even see what his own friends are?

And if he's lying and his DID know what all these people are, what does it say about his character that this is his circle of friends and associates? I certainly don't want a President who pals around with people like that, do you?

[BnL]

The comedy stylings of Samurai, ladies and gentlemen. Let's hear it for him.

[Spike-X]

Post deleted because I was just being a dick.

[Spike-X]

Post deleted because I was just being a dick.

[Spike-X]

Post deleted because I was just being a dick.

[Spike-X]

*offensive picture removed*

That really was in appallingly poor taste.

[Spike-X]

Post deleted because I was just being a dick.

[Spike-X]

Post deleted because I was just being a dick.

[BnL]

That really was in appallingly poor taste.

Why is it in poor taste? It's that woman who volunteered for the McCain campaign who faked injuries and filed a false claim with the police saying that a (black, of course) Obama supporter beat her up. The bruises aren't even real, the dumbass used makeup.

[Spike-X]

Oh. I wasn't aware that's who it was.

I withdraw my comment.

[Typo Lad]

Bri, Bri. Bri... don't you know that many people are voting for him precisely because he's an anti-semite? They want to end the "stranglehold of the Jewish lobby", get back at the Mossad for committing the 9/11 attacks, and end support for the "Zionist Apartheid state" (as Jimmah Cahtah calls it). Jesse Jackson even bragged that "Zionists who have controlled American policy for decades" would lose some of their influence with Obama in the White House, and that "decades of putting Israel's interests first" would come to a close. This is a message the Obama base WANTS to hear, they are HAPPY about it, so announcing he has dinners with Hamas and Hezbullah-supporting radicals and anti-semites is good news, and shows Obama's dedication to their cause...


This is a fascinating view of Obama that has, just so you know Sam, no actual basis in reality. He may have nutcase supporters who think these things, but the guy is deeply, deeply tied to the Orthodox Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_Union), which is many things, including a religious Zionist organization.

As for meeting with the opposition -that's how you make peace, Samurai. Unless you want to call just about any US leader a traitor for meeting with the PA back when it was the PLO? In fact, that's an iffyer prospect, since at the time it actually was an act of treason to meet with the PLO.

Support for Palestinian Rights does not mean support of the destruction of Israel. Even the current administration now supports a two-state solution, as do the majority of Israelis and Palestinians. It's just down to haggling now, and trying to keep the Vocal Minority form killing enough of the majority.


Most, if not all, of the settlers in the occupied territories are Middle-Eastern Religious Fundamentalists. You KNOW that you hate Middle-Eastern Religious Fundamentalists. Middle-Eastern Religious Fundamentalists are EEEEEE-vil!

Remember...?

Actually, I'd say it's fairly balanced these days between Kach types (Fundamentalist Religious Zionists) and "Real" Tzionim (Secular Zionists). The difference is that the Secular types tend to obey the laws, even if they disagree, and the Kach sort... well, there's a reason Kach is considered a terrorist organization by the State of Israel.

In general, I want to say this - there are enough real reasons to like or not like either candidate, that I don't think we need to make up reasons like this. Neither a McCain or Obama presidency will impact the State of Israel in any more negative (or I suspect, positive) fashion than the last few Presidents.

It's a non-issue.

[TCJohnson]

Neither a McCain or Obama presidency will impact the State of Israel in any more negative (or I suspect, positive) fashion than the last few Presidents.

It's a non-issue.

I can see Palin having a negative impact on the Middle East, including Isreal. That would be a reason not to vote for McCain.

[Charles RB]

(Like Bloody Mary, say my name 3 times and I appear... ;) )

You said you weren't going to post here until after the election. Oh look, you lied.

Oh look, your first post back is full of accusations of anti-semitism which are bollocks.

Oh look, your sig screams "COUNTRY FIRST!" re McCain, as if Obama's going to say "fuck America, I'm putting New Zealand first!".

I'd wager I'm far better educated than you, or most of the people on this board. I have degrees in History and Social Science, with double honors

So why do you always act like you're not well educated, and are close-minded and are trying to ignore facts?

For example:

On top of all that, Obama has less experience than Sarah Palin!

Which is factually inaccurate and deliberate ignorant, and you have to know this as his experience has been pointed out to you several times on this very fucking board.

And then we get the really ignorant:

[Palin] fought corruption in both her own party

Palin is corrupt! She was found guilty of power abuse by a bipartisan investigation! She's been caught committing fraud with taxpayer money to fly her kids out to things! Her reign as mayor was known for tyranny and firing people who wouldn't agree with her! She's racked up scandals!

How did you miss all that, unless you were deliberately trying to ignore it?

[Typo Lad]

I can see Palin having a negative impact on the Middle East, including Isreal. That would be a reason not to vote for McCain.
Here's a secret for you - 90% of the time, Vice Presidents don't matter. I can't see any kind of impact Palin would have, even if she became President through some disaster.

She's smoke and mirrors.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

How did you miss all that, unless you were deliberately trying to ignore it?

Its easier to ignore and hide from things that will hurt you . Its why he can't really defend Palin and touts this experince and then...nothing. Its like the McCain campaign who would scream "Palin has more experince than Obama !"

Then the media who are smart this election season said "Ok prove it then...name some things she did..."

And the McCain campaign like some spoiled child would go "Fuck you , I don't have to prove shit ! Fuck you sideways..."

This all played out in the public and became a disastor for the party. Months from now they'll have to perhaps admit Sarah Palin was a horrible as shit move.

[TCJohnson]

Here's a secret for you - 90% of the time, Vice Presidents don't matter. I can't see any kind of impact Palin would have, even if she became President through some disaster.

She's smoke and mirrors.

Well, I could argue that Cheney's time in office really did matter. He re-wrote a lot of the rules and gave the vice presidentcy a lot more power than it did before. If the next administration doesn't do something than those could very well stick.

In this case, though, she is going to be VP to the oldest man to ever hold the office. The prospect of her becoming president is more real than in other administrations.

[Typo Lad]

Cheney'd be part of that 10%, so we're not really arguing in that sense.

For the most part, a VP is selected to offset a quality the candidate seems to be lacking in some way. With Bush Sr, Quail was there to appeal to the Evangelical Base. With Clinton, Gore was supposed to offset Clinton's "Bubba" factor (love how a Rhodes Scholar can be considered a good ol' boy). Cheney, I'm still not sure of.

Biden serves to balance Obama's relatively shorter experience, and - let's just be blunt - the race and youth issues.

Palin is there to balance out McCain's age, the perceived gender gap, and the "celebrity" factor.

[Stressfactor]

As to Samurai's claims that he is not bigoted or intolerant -- well, that is "factually inaccurate" too since he calls anyone who supports Obama an "Obamabot". He cannot seem to accept that anyone on this board could have JUST as much education and experience as he has, could be JUST as informed and STILL vote for Obama.

Oh no, they are the ones who are "ignorant" or else they're "drinking the kool-aid".

Yeah, that just SCREAMS that he has respect and toleration for anyone who has other viewpoints than he holds.

[4PointOh]

As to Samurai's claims that he is not bigoted or intolerant -- well, that is "factually inaccurate" too since he calls anyone who supports Obama an "Obamabot". He cannot seem to accept that anyone on this board could have JUST as much education and experience as he has, could be JUST as informed and STILL vote for Obama.

Oh no, they are the ones who are "ignorant" or else they're "drinking the kool-aid".

Yeah, that just SCREAMS that he has respect and tolerence for anyone who has other viewpoints than he holds.

Just a minor correction.

[Agent Helix]

It'd be tolerance, actually.

[Stressfactor]

Thanks. Although in my defense it's early, it's cold, and I've kicked caffine for the month.....

[CutterMike]

(...)
Actually, I'd say it's fairly balanced these days between Kach types (Fundamentalist Religious Zionists) and "Real" Tzionim (Secular Zionists). The difference is that the Secular types tend to obey the laws, even if they disagree, and the Kach sort... well, there's a reason Kach is considered a terrorist organization by the State of Israel.
(...)Thanks, TL; I stand corrected.

Is it okay if I say "a LOT of the settlers are Middle Eastern Religious Fundamentalists"...? I'm trying to keep the argument down to using words that Sam seems to know.

(Yeah... I know that I'm troll-baiting. I'm sorry. I'll try not to do it again...)

[Typo Lad]

Thanks, TL; I stand corrected.

Is it okay if I say "a LOT of the settlers are Middle Eastern Religious Fundamentalists"...? I'm trying to keep the argument down to using words that Sam seems to know.

(Yeah... I know that I'm troll-baiting. I'm sorry. I'll try not to do it again...)
I think it's more fair to say "the majority of settlers are extremists", as they tend to be, religious or political. You have to be fairly dedicated to stay in many of those areas, and there's a fine line between dedication and extremism.

Also, there's the question of how one defines occupied territory.

[Adam C]

I may not be Familiar with the posts of which you speak, but Sam seems to operate more from ignorance than blind hatred or bigotry.


He repeatedly makes posts singling out examples of bad behaviour among Muslims, the sheer frequency of which made me people suspect that he was singling them out. It doesn't help however, that when presented with examples of religious fanaticism among American Christians he instantly leaps to their defence, including defending a camp that uses brainwashing to keep kids from being gay a "tough love* boot camp. And his opening post on this thread is a text book example of the rabidly partisan tone his political thinking takes.

And oh god, he's back. I should have just invoked Cthulhu and be done with it.

[Adam C]

On top of all that, Obama has less experience than Sarah Palin! They have equally short political careers, but she has executive experience at running a state and a city, he has nothing of the sort. She fought big oil, got tax refunds for Alaskans, negotiated the largest man-made project in the history of North America (!), and fought corruption in both her own party and the other. He only say in Congress, voted "Present 130 times instead of making tough decisions, campaigned for his next job instead of doing the job he was elected for, never convened the Senate subcommittee he was put in charge of even once, and never passed any meaningful, ground-breaking legislation or bucked his party leaders.

That is a lie. He passed the Obama-Luger act which reinforced cooperative threat reduction regarding disused missles and ordinance. The Coburn-Obama act established a website designed to track federal spending for the sake of the public. Even the Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/502njiqx.asp) lauded it. And he introduced the Iraq demobilization act (http://nwitimes.com/articles/2007/02/07/news/illiana/doc65cc98d8dc6506b28625727b0011edb5.txt), which whether or not you agree with it, is definitely a major piece of legislation. I could list more bills he's offered. Additionally he not only served on Subcommittees for Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, Homeland Security, Governmental Affairs, Environment, Public Works, and Veterans' Affairs AS WELL AS Foreign Relations, for which he made official trips abroad on behalf of the U.S. And he was Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs.

Meanwhile Palin has shown complete ignorance of foreign policy affairs and cannot even answer basic questions by reporters on her platform or capability to handle the office. She claimed that her position as Governor of Alaska gave her special insight into Russian actions, and when asked only replied "I can see Russia from Alaska." She has campaigned against pork spending while being for it, including the notorious bridge to nowhere. And lacking anything of substance to campaign on she has repeatedly resorted to populist vilification of Obama to cries of "Terrorist!" and "Kill him!" to which she has remained silent.

[MacQuarrie]

You're right... no one is holding a gun to the Obots heads, they are marching along either willingly or unwittingly.
Can you post one, just one, fucking post without insulting those who disagree with you?

Ditch the pissy terms like "Obots" and stick to the fucking point and people might not hate your fucking guts so much here.

And McCain was cleared in the Keating 5 thing, remember? So, not a criminal.
Okay, not a criminal. Just a a thoroughly corrupt politician who was up to his eyeballs in the S&L scandal of the '90s and completely dirty in the current economic disaster, which is a completely bipartisan mess in which McCain is as much to blame as anyone. He voted in favor of every single piece of deregulation that allowed it to happen.

But if you are THAT sensitive to both the appearance of impropriety and inexperience, HOW IN THE WORLD can you vote for Obama, who has BOTH?
Who says I'm voting for Obama? I'll say it again, it's not a frigging binary world. If you could manage to recognize that there are always more than two choices, maybe you could stop forcing everything into a false either-or dichotomy, which would allow you to stop demonizing the opposition, and also to stop marching in lockstep with whatever the RNC tells you to. You wouldn't have to go through the mental gymnastics of having to defend Sarah Palin as VP candidate, for example.

Not only did Obama have dealings with Tony Rezko, including buying houses together (in which Obama got a special deal) and Obama writing letters to recommend Rezko get several housing projects (which he turned into slums), and not only did Obama go to Kenya in 2006 on taxpayer money to campaign for his murdering cousin Odinga and Obama got his top contributers to give $1 million to Odinga's campaign (which turned into a bloodbath when Odinga lost), and not only did Obama get the 2nd highest all-time amount of contributions from Fannie and Freddie in just 2 years, but in addition Obama gave $832,000 to ACORN to pay for their fraudulent "get out the vote" campaign that has resulted in over 400,000 fraudulent names being registered (and still counting) and charges/indictments in 14 states so far. And Obama helped them to bring lawsuits against banks in order to pressure the banks to give more unsecured loans to people who normally would never have qualified, which helped create the whole housing crash we're in!
That's true as far as it goes, but it's not even close to the heart of the problem. People who worked at the SEC and other regulatory agencies have stated under oath that there was no oversight, the most fundamental principles of financial responsibility and conventional lending practices were completely disregarded, and that was done entirely to grab the huge influx of investment money coming from China. The Community Development and ACORN loans were a drop in the bucket. And the fact remains that the banks would not have been able to give the loans they did (especially the arcane things like credit swaps that are largely responsible for the current disaster) without the Republican-led push to deregulate the lending industry. SEC Chair Christopher Cox sat there with his thumb up his ass, turned down a Congressional offer of more funding and regulatory descretion, and took a vacation when the collapse began. Why has he not been fired yet? Oh, yeah, he's a Republican. Heck of a job, Chris.

On top of all that, Obama has less experience than Sarah Palin! They have equally short political careers, but she has executive experience at running a state and a city, he has nothing of the sort.
Please. My local community college has a student body three times larger than the population of her town. My city has a larger population than Alaska. And she's been a giggling incompetent, corrupt and personally vindictive in the job.

She fought big oil, got tax refunds for Alaskans, negotiated the largest man-made project in the history of North America (!), and fought corruption in both her own party and the other. He only say in Congress, voted "Present 130 times instead of making tough decisions, campaigned for his next job instead of doing the job he was elected for, never convened the Senate subcommittee he was put in charge of even once, and never passed any meaningful, ground-breaking legislation or bucked his party leaders.
Like I've said a bunch of times, I'm not entirely happy with Obama's voting record or policies. He is the furthest-left member of the Senate. But come on, Sarah Palin is the best the Republicans have to offer? Really? Does anybody really think she is the best-qualified candidate in the entire Republican party? She's Dan Qualye in a dress, for God's sake.

Be honest: Sarah Palin is a checklist candidate. McCain's handlers sat down and said "we need somebody who will appeal to the far right branch; religious, pro-gun, pro-life; it needs to be somebody from a rural area; we also need somebody young and good-looking to contrast our old guy; oh and it should be a woman, so we can pander to them. Who can we get?" And they had to go all the way to Alaska to fill the role they were casting for. If they merely wanted a VP nominee who would be good at the job, they had literally hundreds of people more qualified than Palin.

That's a fact, and it's one that reveals the essential cynicism and sliminess of the political process in general and the Republicans in particular.

And given that Paiin doesn't even know what the VP's job is, I sure can't vote for her. I've had enough of Dick Cheney making up new powers for himself.
So, if you are concerned with the appearance of corruption and inexperienced leadership, your choice on Nov 4 should be very clear to you now.
Right. "None of the Above." I plan to vote for any one of the other candidates on the ballot and let Obama win by default. I can live with him for four years. If it were Hillary, I'd be grudgingly voting for McCain and holding my nose the entire time, because I hate her guts, but Obama's not Hillary.

Besides which, the President is probably the least-important item on the ballot. The most important are your local judges and the various propositions and initiatives.

[MacQuarrie]

If you aren't frightened of what a President Obama would do, you need more research. It's just that simple.
Said it before and I'll say it again:

Any time you do anything out of fear, you're probably wrong.

And that's where McCain loses me; every single Republican I know is using doomsday scenarios to see McCain, always some variation of how bad it will be if Obama wins.

They said that about Clinton, too. And none of the apocalyptic disasters foretold came to be.

Obama is not the antichrist, and McCain is not the Second Coming.

[MacQuarrie]

Here's a secret for you - 90% of the time, Vice Presidents don't matter. I can't see any kind of impact Palin would have, even if she became President through some disaster.

She's smoke and mirrors.
90% of the time, they choose to not matter. Most of them choose to sit on their fat asses and wait for the Prez to have a heart attack or take a bullet, and are content to have a title and be slightly more important and slightly less interesting than the First Lady.

But Lady Bird Johnson and Nancy Reagan demonstrated that even the First Lady can be incredibly effective and important and matter a great deal. Lady Bird led the charge that eventually became the environmental movement in America, beginning with an anti-litter crusade, and Nancy worked to make drug use unfashionable and to encourage chi8ldren to avoid them. They could have stayed in the Rose Garden and done nothing, but they made an effort.

And the VP could make an effort too. Though at the moment I can't really think of one who has, apart from Cheney's shadow presidency.

[Samurai]

You said you weren't going to post here until after the election. Oh look, you lied.

Oh look, your first post back is full of accusations of anti-semitism which are bollocks.

Oh look, your sig screams "COUNTRY FIRST!" re McCain, as if Obama's going to say "fuck America, I'm putting New Zealand first!".



So why do you always act like you're not well educated, and are close-minded and are trying to ignore facts?

For example:



Which is factually inaccurate and deliberate ignorant, and you have to know this as his experience has been pointed out to you several times on this very fucking board.

And then we get the really ignorant:



Palin is corrupt! She was found guilty of power abuse by a bipartisan investigation! She's been caught committing fraud with taxpayer money to fly her kids out to things! Her reign as mayor was known for tyranny and firing people who wouldn't agree with her! She's racked up scandals!

How did you miss all that, unless you were deliberately trying to ignore it?
I didn't say I wouldn't post at all, I said I'm not going to be around as much. And I have posted in some other non-political threads. But when you guys start feeling comfortable enough to start slandering my name in a thread, I figured it was time to step back in for a bit. That's not a "lie", and attempting to claim it is makes you look foolish.

New Zealand? No, he's all about putting himself first, it's all about his ego and arrogance. The country can sit and spin for all he cares.

http://firstfriday.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/obama-snob.jpg

Obama does have less relevant experience than Palin. Their actual times in office are about equal but her experience is far more relevant than his is, so in sum total, she has more experience at the job than he does. That's simply a fact.

"Bipartisan investigation"? It was a smear job by people who hate her, and had NO business (under Alaskan law) to even investigate this! It was the job of a non-partisan 3-person panel, not the Legislative Dems who promised an "October surprise" and were posing for pictures in the local Obama campaign headquarters. No one would file a real complaint with the real agency meant to handle these things because a) they knew it was BS and b) they wanted to handle the smear themselves, to make sure it was done "on time". And they still had to admit she didn't break the law.

She sold the Governor's private plane in order to return the money to the state coffers, so what if her own kids flew with her a few times on Alaska's dime? Obama spent taxpayer money to fly himself and his family to Kenya in 2006 to campaign for his cousin Odinga, whose thugs murdered about 1000 people when he failed to win the election. They were raping, pillaging, and they burned down nearly 800 churches across the country before the President asked Odinga to halt the violence in return for sharing power with him. Gee, which is a bigger scandal in wasting and abusing taxpayer money, hmm?

[Larime]

Like I've said a bunch of times, I'm not entirely happy with Obama's voting record or policies. He is the furthest-left member of the Senate.

Really, Mac? Further left than Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy and Bernie Sanders (I-Commie Pinko)?

[TCJohnson]

And the VP could make an effort too. Though at the moment I can't really think of one who has, apart from Cheney's shadow presidency.

Al Gore did a lot with his VP position for the enviroment and promoting information technologies.

[Royal]

Bernie's Socialist. Not commie.

[Samurai]

Said it before and I'll say it again:

Any time you do anything out of fear, you're probably wrong.

And that's where McCain loses me; every single Republican I know is using doomsday scenarios to see McCain, always some variation of how bad it will be if Obama wins.

They said that about Clinton, too. And none of the apocalyptic disasters foretold came to be.

Obama is not the antichrist, and McCain is not the Second Coming.

I KNOW McCain isn't the Second Coming, and I know I'll have plenty of disagreements with him, as I said before.

Obama not the Antichrist, though? Not so sure about that one... :biggrin: No, he's probably just a Marxist socialist with racist, anti-Semitic, and terrorist-supporting overtones, not a "real" Antichrist.

[Larime]

Bernie's Socialist. Not commie.

As am I. It was sarcasm. :)

[Samurai]

Really, Mac? Further left than Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy and Bernie Sanders (I-Commie Pinko)?

I terms of his actual voting record, yes, further left than all of them. He is for wealth redistribution, as he let slip out to Joe the Plumber, and has been for many years. Here's a 2001 interview he gave:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

[Larime]

I terms of his actual voting record, yes, further left than all of them.

Sources are helpful.

And I really do hope whatever school gave you TWO degrees is nice and ashamed of itself.

[Typo Lad]

You're really offending me with the Anti-Semite garbage, Samurai.

Considering that in the past you've poo-pooed actual examples of anti-Semitism I've posted here, you're basically slandering a man with very close ties to one of the largest Jewish groups in the US (and indeed, the world), and who has never, ever promoted an anti-Semetic agenda.

You want to say he has Anti-Semetic supporters? Sure - fair game. Just like McCain. McCain sought out the nomination of a man whose church prays for the destruction of the State of Israel. Do you want us tarring him with that brush like you're tarring Obama?

Leave my people out of your scare tactics, please.

[Samurai]

Sources are helpful.

And I really do hope whatever school gave you TWO degrees is nice and ashamed of itself.

Don't forget the double honors too...

And here's the ranking:

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
http://www.nationaljournal.com/conventions/co_20080825_4458.php

• Some senators took the liberal position more often than Obama. So he couldn't have been the most liberal senator.

Obama's No. 1 ranking is akin to being declared the major-league batting champion. The honor goes to the player with the highest batting average, regardless of whether he has the most hits. In Obama's case, voting the liberal position 65 out of 66 times earned him the title, as opposed to a senator who might have voted the liberal position 80 times out of 90.

• Anyone who follows the Senate knows that Obama isn't as liberal as, say, Sens. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, Barbara Boxer of California, and Russell Feingold of Wisconsin.

It's true that those senators are generally perceived as being more liberal than Obama. But our ratings are based on actual votes, not perceptions; and in 2007, Sanders, Boxer, and Feingold cast a slightly lower percentage of liberal votes than Obama did. Feingold, for instance, was one of only two Democrats who voted to uphold President Bush's veto of the Water Resources Development Act. Boxer voted with 37 Republicans and only six other Democrats on a proposal regarding Real ID requirements for driver's licenses. Sanders voted with 37 Republicans and only 15 Democrats against limiting debate on the immigration reform bill. Just because someone is perceived as a liberal doesn't mean he or she votes the liberal position every time.

[Charles RB]

INo, he's probably just a Marxist socialist with racist, anti-Semitic, and terrorist-supporting overtones, not a "real" Antichrist.

And you honestly believe that?

[C-Cool]

Oh... the Samurai of the feudal lord Rush Limbaugh is still talking...

:rolleyes:

4 out of 5 Karl Roves.

So consistent.

[Samurai]

And you honestly believe that?

Absolutely. The evidence shows it.

[Typo Lad]

Samurai,

I've decided that until you do the decent thing and at the very least respond to me, I'm putting you on ignore.

Your using my people to fearmonger offends the ever living hell out of me. You've never been a victim of it. You don't know what it means.

[Larime]

Don't forget the double honors too...

And here's the ranking:

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
http://www.nationaljournal.com/conventions/co_20080825_4458.php

Their "99 Key Senate Votes" is the most absurd, cherry-picked bullshit I've ever seen.

Seriously. Since when is voting to enact the 9/11 commission's recommendations and voting to search incoming cargo at ports a LIBERAL thing?

Are you fucking kidding me?

More bullshit:

Limit debate on a measure allowing government negotiation of Medicare prescription drug prices. (Because saving money is LIBERAL)
Block individuals from serving on Food and Drug Administration drug advisory panels if they have conflicts of interest. (Because opposing corruption is LIBERAL)
Restrict deployment of most Army troops serving in Iraq to 12 consecutive months. (Because ACTUALLY supporting our troops is LIBERAL)

You use THIS as indisputable FACT he's the most liberal?

Wow. Your intellectual dishonesty knows no bounds.

[Samurai]

You're really offending me with the Anti-Semite garbage, Samurai.

Considering that in the past you've poo-pooed actual examples of anti-Semitism I've posted here, you're basically slandering a man with very close ties to one of the largest Jewish groups in the US (and indeed, the world), and who has never, ever promoted an anti-Semetic agenda.

You want to say he has Anti-Semetic supporters? Sure - fair game. Just like McCain. McCain sought out the nomination of a man whose church prays for the destruction of the State of Israel. Do you want us tarring him with that brush like you're tarring Obama?

Leave my people out of your scare tactics, please.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story

[Michael P]

Sources are helpful.

And I really do hope whatever school gave you TWO degrees is nice and ashamed of itself.

Especially when you consider they could have gone with an equally qualified black applicant instead.

[Samurai]

Samurai,

I've decided that until you do the decent thing and at the very least respond to me, I'm putting you on ignore.

Your using my people to fearmonger offends the ever living hell out of me. You've never been a victim of it. You don't know what it means.

I'm heading to work in a few minutes, but I'm not trying to offend you, just point out the truth. Read the article I posted above, look into his supporters from Khalidi to Al Mansour to al Hady, look into what Jackson and Wright and Farrakhan are all saying on his behalf. Yeah, he gave some strong speeches claiming he supports Israel (and then correcting himself the next day to say he in fact does support a divided Jerusalem), but look at the man who is saying these things, look at his past and his friends, and anyone can see he's lying through his teeth because he's campaigning.

You will be sorely disappointed if you think Obama will be a strong supporter of Israel anywhere besides a campaign platform. That is my absolute belief, whether you like it or not, and it is not meant to offend you, just awaken you.

[Larime]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story

...

Stay classy, there, Sam.

[Samurai]

...

Stay classy, there, Sam.

What, the freakin' LA Times is now considered verbotten because it dares criticize the Messiah?

If any of you are Angel fans, I'm getting a very strong "Jasmine" vibe this election...

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I KNOW McCain isn't the Second Coming, and I know I'll have plenty of disagreements with him, as I said before.

Obama not the Antichrist, though? Not so sure about that one... :biggrin: No, he's probably just a Marxist socialist with racist, anti-Semitic, and terrorist-supporting overtones, not a "real" Antichrist.

And you honestly believe that?

It makes it easier to HATE ya know. I mean...if you can't beat a guy fairly... FEAR MONGER him.

Absolutely. The evidence shows it.

Ohh yeahhh see....use fear mongering. Its classic. Its why Palin (a woman you defend) is such a sad moron and why its not working. Her reputation is already shot. She's seen as a moronic fool and her going ..."Ya know , Barack Obama has ties to Ayers , don'tcha know...a terrorist okey dokey..."

Her use of FEAR MONGERING to try and propel people to vote on her side hasn't work as well. This should be a lesson to politicans...once you become a national joke in front of the media...its hard to lose that image no matter how bad your slamming a guy.

[Typo Lad]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story

1) That's not anything in the way of evidence. Those are views of people who would support him. Would it be fair game for me to cite the people I know who are voting for McCain because (and this is a paraphrase) "I just don't think a Black man is ready to lead a nation of whites"? That's just anecdotal.

Stick with the man's actual platform, or at the very least, things said by members of his campaign.

Attending a dinner doesn't count either, unless we count it for your side. Is Palin a secessionist? I mean, she did a video address for them.

Of course she isn't. Nor is Obama an Anti-Zionist.

2) You seem to have Anti-Zionism confused with Anti-Semitism. Obama attended a dinner that was funded by people critical of the State of Israel's policies. That's not the same thing as Anti-Zionism, even. I have friends in the IDF who do that. Saying "this situation sucks and it needs to not" is not a bad thing.

3) Being Pro-Palestinian rights is not Anti-Zionist. I have noted this before, but the current administration and the State of Israel andthe PA support a two-State Solution. Indeed, being concerned for Palestinian rights right now is almost pro Zionism. Only by creating a lasting peace can we insure that no more Israeli lives (including the countless Israeli Arabs who serve and die for the country), are lost to terror attacks, and that no more rogue settlements are able to be raised.

So again, give me evidence that Obama and/or his campaign are Anti-Semetic. Not even Anti-Zionist.

Then, be sure to tell the Orthodox Union, which is backing him and which he has had strong ties to for years. If you like, I can have it added to the agenda for the Thanksgiving Day retreat in Jerusalem.

[Larime]

What, the freakin' LA Times is now considered verbotten because it dares criticize the Messiah?

No.

Your reply to his justified offense at YOUR claiming to know what anti-semitism is better than actual, honest to G-d JEWISH PEOPLE was to continue to peddle your bullshit.

But I forgot. You know better about what's good for Jews than Jews do, and you know what anti-semitism is better than people who have actually experienced it.

Wow are you sick.

[Charles RB]

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamamideast10apr10,0,1780231,full.story

The article tells us:

* Obama knew a scholar and Palestinian rights activist (who is opposed to suicide bombings and similar acts), and they had discussions which he said challenged some biases he had (i.e. he can be convinced to change his mind)

* He has seen that scholar a lot less in the last five years, and is taking pro-Israel stances

* He has also reached out to Jewish constituents and groups for years

* He was at an event where other people said angry things about Israeli and American policies, at which he himself said there needed to be a common ground found between both sides

* Pro-Palestinian groups think an Obama presidency would be more receptive to the Palestinian side in MidEast policy/peace negotiations, and he might push for both sides to make concessions

* Obama believes in a two-state solution to the conflict and has spoke against talking with Hamas until they make concessions, acts which fit current US policy

-

Where the FUCK is the anti-semitism in there?

[Jared H.]

Nevermind...

[Charles RB]

Wait, he left? When? How?

Oh, joy of joys if this is true.

You're going to feel a bit daft when you realise he's not only back, you made this post four pages after he came back. :wink:

[Samurai]

You're going to feel a bit daft when you realise he's not only back, you made this post four pages after he came back. :wink:

And the ironic thing is that if you guys hadn't been slamming me, I wouldn't have posted in this thread at all...

[Jared H.]

You're going to feel a bit daft when you realise he's not only back, you made this post four pages after he came back. :wink:

Just a little bit, yeah.

More dissapointed than anything, though.

[Michael P]

A helpful chart for those new to the thread:

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5020/samuraiqc3.jpg

[Larime]

I personally look forward to new depths of nuttiness when B-Rock "The Islamic Shock" Hussein SuperAllah Obama X (http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=11047) is elected Supreme Ayatollah of the United Caliphate of Ameristan.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The article tells us:

* Obama knew a scholar and Palestinian rights activist (who is opposed to suicide bombings and similar acts), and they had discussions which he said challenged some biases he had (i.e. he can be convinced to change his mind)

* He has seen that scholar a lot less in the last five years, and is taking pro-Israel stances

* He has also reached out to Jewish constituents and groups for years

* He was at an event where other people said angry things about Israeli and American policies, at which he himself said there needed to be a common ground found between both sides

* Pro-Palestinian groups think an Obama presidency would be more receptive to the Palestinian side in MidEast policy/peace negotiations, and he might push for both sides to make concessions

* Obama believes in a two-state solution to the conflict and has spoke against talking with Hamas until they make concessions, acts which fit current US policy

-

Where the FUCK is the anti-semitism in there?

Well its that bad that soon we could see McCain's campaign decide to do what Hillary did when she ran outta things to nail Obama on. And what was her strategy ? To claim Obama lifted from speeches. Yes... John McCain needs to do an ad where he goes...

"This is Barack Obama and heres a speech he's doing . See his speech people....its lifted from this. Does the American people really want a man who steals speeches from others ? Can we afford to have a man who can't do original speech writing in the White House ? I'm John McCain and I support this message !"

[MacQuarrie]

Maybe I'm slow.

Samurai's sig says "Don't just hope for change, vote for it!"

Exactly what change is McCain offering? As I understand it, he's pretty much promising to be a continuation of the last eight years. Where's the change?

[Charles RB]

And the ironic thing is that if you guys hadn't been slamming me, I wouldn't have posted in this thread at all...

Wait a minute.

You said you'd left and would not return until after the election.

But instead, you were lurking and reading political posts here.

...why?

[Karl J Barnes]

Maybe I'm slow.

Samurai's sig says "Don't just hope for change, vote for it!"

Exactly what change is McCain offering? As I understand it, he's pretty much promising to be a continuation of the last eight years. Where's the change?

Maybe its the GOP's subconcious way of telling us to vote for Obama?

[Typo Lad]

I started to respond to this, then my browser crashed. Which is good, because now I can cool down a bit.

I'm heading to work in a few minutes, but I'm not trying to offend you, just point out the truth.

I'm not saying you're trying, but you are. And you're not posting the truth - you're posting your opinion, taking things and twisting them to fit it. You don't like the guy, you don't like his party, and you'll take whatever you have to make everyone scared of him, no matter how far fetched.

What do I mean?

For starters, you keep confusing Anti-Semitism with Anti-Zionism. You can be one without being the other. Further, you are positing that being pro-Palestinian Rights is the same thing as being an Anti-Zionist (although calling it Anti-Semitism). This is patently false, and if it were so, the Israeli and Americangovernments would be Anti-Zionist organizations at this point. Finally, you keep saying "Obama is this" and when asked why, say "people who support him are". That is not the same thing.

Read the article I posted above,

I did. I see that the Senator attended a dinner supporting someone who supports the Palestinian people. There is no issue to be had with that, considering that the United States officially supports a two-state solution.

Further, if attending a dinner is an issue, then surely that puts Palin's video greeting the the Secessionist party back on the table, no? This is about as silly as that.

I also see that some people think he'd be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause than perhaps McCain. I think this is accurate as well, in a good way. Senator Obama seems calmer and more patient, which is what you want in someone dealing with international negotiations. I think that is a good thing, as to the majority of the citizens of the State of Israel, who currently overwhelmingly support a two-State solution.

I also see that some people who feel that way are kinda nuts... as you note:

look into his supporters from Khalidi to Al Mansour to al Hady, look into what Jackson and Wright and Farrakhan are all saying on his behalf.

The thing about running for President in a free country is that you don't get to pick and choose who votes for you. There are plenty of nuts in both trees. Saying "People who support him are Anti-Semitic" (and there's no other word for Farrakhan's feelings) would be accurate.

Senator Obama's policies contain no Anti-Semetic or Anti-Zionist elements.

Yeah, he gave some strong speeches claiming he supports Israel

He's constantly spoken in support of Israel, and has strong ties to an American Religious Zionist organization, a point you are ignoring because it disrupts your slander.

(and then correcting himself the next day to say he in fact does support a divided Jerusalem),

Which is the current policy of this administration, an administration that continues to refuse to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel. This is in direct violation of US Federal law. To be fair, President Clinton was the first President to ignore that law after signing the bill, and President Bush is just continuing that policy. Legally, the United States is required to relocate the embassy to Jerusalem instead of Tel Aviv (Israel is insulted with a mere consulate), and until it does so there isn't supposed to be a budget.

Really. I can get the law details if you like.

but look at the man who is saying these things

Except he's not saying these things. That's the point.

, look at his past and his friends

McCain's past is just as bad, and Obama was never tried for anything.

, and anyone can see he's lying through his teeth because he's campaigning.

My father has recently been saying that McCain's greatest weakness may be that he "panders poorly". By this he means he's uncomfortable and it shows when he's pandering. Obama is far smoother.

Do I think Obama is pandering? Of course he is. That's why I try to look at his actions instead of his words. His actions, to me, speak far louder. McCain tried to politicize the budget crisis - Senator Obama did not. McCain picked an underqualified running mate- Obama picked someone who is likely more qualified than he. McCain announces he's pulling out of a state, then requests his supporters keep fundraising there... and the list goes on.

You will be sorely disappointed if you think Obama will be a strong supporter of Israel anywhere besides a campaign platform. That is my absolute belief, whether you like it or not, and it is not meant to offend you, just awaken you.

You can't awaken someone who isn't asleep, Samurai.

I'm not trying to be a douche, but you don't know anything about American Politics. You treat it like a spectator sport, and cheer on you team. That's the kind of think that's honest to G-d, killing America.

Further, you continue to substitute Anti-Zionism for Anti-Semitism. It's race baiting, and offensive.

Obama has been and continues to be strongly tied to a religious Zionist organization. In Chicago the Jewish community raves about him.

Further, I don't know about you, but I'm voting for the President of the United States. When it comes to Israel, both major candidates are fine choices. Really. Ergo, I can ignore that issue and focus on others - like Gay Rights, Reproductive Rights, and the Fiscal Crisis.

I cannot and will not vote for a candidate who says that being pro-gay rights is a deal-breaker for being a VP candidate ("rights", his word, not marriage"). I cannot and will not vote for a candidate who refers to people who are pro-choice as pro-abortion, and who wants to put more Conservative judges on the supreme court. I cannot and will not vote for a candidate who tried to turn the current economic crisis into a photo op. Further, I cannot and will not vote for a candidate who says he will make pork-barrel rider abusers "famous" and veto any pork, and then, after signing in a rescue package that includes pork (which I would forgive due to the crisis nature), has not said "boo" about those offenders. I cannot and will not vote for someone who hires the author of the Enron loophole to be his fiscal adviser, and then after firing him for being a bone-head, appoints a person who managed to tank HP/Compaq and get one of the most obscene golden parachutes in tech history - another thing he's publicly spoken out against.

I understand that you don't want to vote for Obama, and there are real reasons not to (indeed, some of my minuses are pluses for others). But don't make shit up.

The man is not an Anti-Semite.

[Typo Lad]

Maybe I'm slow.

Samurai's sig says "Don't just hope for change, vote for it!"

Exactly what change is McCain offering? As I understand it, he's pretty much promising to be a continuation of the last eight years. Where's the change?
You don't think it's "change" to vote for someone who voted with the agenda of the current administration about 90% of the time?

How can you ignore that clear 10%?

[king mob]

As unpleasant as it is to read Samurai's typical bigoted rubbish, Typo's last few posts have been seriously magnificent examples of how to destroy with reason the type of filth Samurai spreads. I don't think there's anything to add beyond what Typo has said.

[Matt Algren]

Can you post one, just one, fucking post without insulting those who disagree with you?

Ditch the pissy terms like "Obots" and stick to the fucking point and people might not hate your fucking guts so much here.
I still say that Obamunist was pretty darn creative.

As for Palin's experience, click here (http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=188638) for information on Wasilla and its mayor.

It seems odd to me that they've built up Palin's experience by making cracks about community organizers. Isn't organizing in communities a foundational part of America's history? George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Patrick Henry, and all the rest were community organizers before the Revolutionary War, weren't they? Saul Alinsky, Martin Luther King Jr., Harriet Tubman, Susan B. Anthony, César Chávez, Dorothy Day, Lech Wałęsa... The history of the world is full of people who effected change by working outside the political system because their cause was unpopular with politicians and to an extent the public.

Are we really suggesting that the mayor of a small town in the middle of nowhere is necessarily better equipped than them?

[Jared H.]

As unpleasant as it is to read Samurai's typical bigoted rubbish, Typo's last few posts have been seriously magnificent examples of how to destroy with reason the type of filth Samurai spreads. I don't think there's anything to add beyond what Typo has said.

Agreed. Agreed so hard.

[Puma]

As unpleasant as it is to read Samurai's typical bigoted rubbish, Typo's last few posts have been seriously magnificent examples of how to destroy with reason the type of filth Samurai spreads. I don't think there's anything to add beyond what Typo has said.

Amen.






.

[Typo Lad]

Y'all are making me blush.

Jim MacQuarrie said some good stuff too.

[king mob]

Y'all are making me blush.

Jim MacQuarrie said some good stuff too.

Indeed. Far better than what I would have done, which would have to just call Samurai a twat and stomp off.

[Typo Lad]

That counts as a "win" for the person who makes you do it.

[king mob]

That counts as a "win" for the person who makes you do it.

Very much so.

[Jared H.]

Y'all are making me blush.

Jim MacQuarrie said some good stuff too.

That's true. Good job as well, Mac. Goodness knows I've passed the point I can talk rationally to the guy(thank goodness for the ignore button).

[Matt Algren]

You guys are going to run out of hand lotion if you aren't careful.

[EdContradictory]

He is the furthest-left member of the Senate.
No, he isn't. That's a bullshit Republican talking point manufactured by the National Journal.

I mean, for God's sake, Bernie Sanders IS an actual, real, self-identifying socialist.

[Gilda Dent]

If you think you can "win ugly" by making Obama look worse than Captain Waffler and his vacuous twit of a pandering VP nominee, you will be sadly disappointed.

I have nothing of substance to add to the main topic of this thread, but I think Captain Waffler and Vacuous Twit would make great names for Wordgirl villains.

[Spike-X]

As unpleasant as it is to read Samurai's typical bigoted rubbish, Typo's last few posts have been seriously magnificent examples of how to destroy with reason the type of filth Samurai spreads. I don't think there's anything to add beyond what Typo has said.
That's probably the one good thing about Samurai posting here - I learn so much from the reams of facts people like Typo, Jim, and others post to counteract his distortion, slander, and out-and-out lies.

Thanks guys!

[Solaris]

Not really. Executive experience is more applicable to an executive job (duh), but long experience in politics can teach you a lot too. So McCain has much more total experience, even if it wasn't as relevant. But since Obama and Palin have the same number of years of experience, you then look at relevance to see which is more qualified, and almost all of Palin's has been executive and leadership roles, while none of Obama's has been. So Palin wins.

Plus, Palin is running for the VP, where she'll gain more on-the-job experience. Obama, with less experience, is running for the top spot. As Biden said, expect him to be tested by the world, and for him to screw it up (according to most peoples' perceptions, he said).


Okay, so your kid is in public school, and you have a choice for who's gonna be their teacher: a sour old woman who has 35 years of "experience," even though she is horrible with the kids--in fact she *hates* kids and teaching, OR a fresh young teacher with maybe 3-4 years of experience, but who genuinely enjoys the kids and does her best to teach them well and discipline them kindly but firmly... you're gonna pick the sour old bitch who should've been fired years ago, because "she's got more experience," right?

Obviously.

Time in a job does NOT necessarily equate to QUALITY in a job. And that's something you should've learned years ago... or did you never get one of those "sour cranky longterm" teachers, like most of us did?

I'd much rather have an intelligent, thoughful, motivated president (despite his so-called "lack of experience"), than a bellicose bastard who's only in it for himself and his advancement and prestige (rather than the job itself), a man who's used family strings to slide out of trouble all his life and thus thinks he can get away with anything with no real censure, a man who publically called his wife a cunt to her face, a man who's self-serving defense and protection of his financial supporters, especially Keating, led to first the deregulation that let Keating and his ilk dupe investors, then delayed the ax long enough for hundreds of thousands of more investors to be bankrupted---because McCain actively worked against measures that would've halted the process earlier on.

And that's leaving out the fact that he's endorsed torture, has crashed several planes due to negligence (normally crashing one in such a fashion will get your wings pulled in the navy), has invaded Senate and FCC meetings at the last minute, without invitation, to barge in and yell at them to do what he wants them to do, (without even bothering to put in the time and effort to attend all the meetings and)---and in those cases, disrupted procedings when an agreement was about to be reached after days or weeks of deliberation... I could go on and on, because McCain has made a lifetime of being an asshole and a self-serving jerk and damn anyone or any rules, regulations, or laws that got in his way... and getting away with it because his father would pull strings, and he in turn learned to pull strings himself.

After the way he dumped his debilitated first wife (and got "legally remarried" in Arizona before he was even legally divorced) to a beer heiress he was having an affair with, Nancy Reagan loathed him... and kindly got his first wife a job working with the Reagan Administration. Her endorsement for his campaign, when seen under that light, speaks volumes: basically she said that she and Ronny would always wait until the Party had chosen a candidate, and then would back the Party line. Given that he's touted his involvement with the Reagan Administration, etc., you'd think that, if she truly liked him and believed in him as a candidate, she would've given a ringing endorsement. Instead, she kept it strictly to a "we support our Party" kind of thing... which smacks of "I can't stand this person, and I think he's awful, but we have and always will support the Republican Party, so even though it's distasteful to me, I will offer an endorsement, but only by basing it on "Party Support."

Honestly, I'd rather have the White House plumber as president over McCain. It's sheer gravy that, instead of a plumber, we actually have a decent candidate to vote for this go-round... this time I don't *have* to choose the "lesser of two evils" to vote for.

[Solaris]

And honestly, I know Obama has flaws. He's human. I know he's gonna make mistakes---there's never been a President who didn't.

I don't expect him to be the Knight in Shining Armor, who rides to the rescue of American Citizens as the Princess Stranded on Top of the Tower.

But, given the low state American Politics has sunk to, the sheer fact that we have someone running who shows, by his actions and attitude, a willingess to be open-minded, to seek negotiation and compromise between warring factions (rather than dumping a barrel of gasoline on it and saying "that's what you get for fucking with America!"), someone who *my gods!* seems to have shreds of decency in his character, and above all, someone who has a genuine interest in the job and trying to do it fairly to the best of his ability, rather than being a sock-puppet for special interests, fatheaded bigots, and major corporations...

...it just makes me want to cheer.

He may not be beef wellington and caviar... but by the same token, a decent healthy steak and potatoes is a far cry from the pig slop we've been getting---and seeing someone like that being *willing* to do the hard work and put up with the thrown mud from all directions, the intense personal scrutiny and no privacy whatsoever... it makes me want to cheer.

[Justin D.]

If this is so innocent why is Obama trying to downplay his relationship with him...

When did you stop beating your wife?

What, the freakin' LA Times is now considered verbotten because it dares criticize the Messiah?

If any of you are Angel fans, I'm getting a very strong "Jasmine" vibe this election...

As an Angel fan, that storyline was one of the worst times during the series.

Also, the analogy is seriously paranoid and deluded.

[Solaris]

If you aren't frightened of what a President Obama would do, you need more research. It's just that simple.

Look, I disagree with McCain on quite a few issues. From immigration amnesty to global warming to his refusal to drill in ANWR to his lousy campaign finance reform that came back to bite him in the rear. I expect to battle him on these and other issues if he becomes President.

But at least I know he is an honorable, decent, patriotic man who will do what he feels is right for this country, not just what's good for himself. And I honestly can't say ANY of those things about Barack Obama. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Obama's past, his numerous relationships and associations with terrorists and terrorist supporters (both foreign and domestic), a slum lord and influence peddler, an African warlord responsible for the murder of over 1000 people (including burning 35 people alive in a church) and 500,000 fleeing for their lives, a bigoted, racist preacher who claims white people invented AIDS to kill blacks, and a group that tried its best to rig the election with 400,000+ fake voter registrations, now up on charges in 14 states, and also responsible for helping cause the housing crisis. THIS is Obama's circle of close friends and associates, and they have been surrounding him for over 20 years.

He claims he didn't know anything... didn't know Ayers was an unrepentant terrorist, didn't know Wright preached hatred from the pulpit in the church he attended for 2 decades, didn't know Rezko was crooked, and didn't know that his $832,000 to ACORN would be used for voter fraud. All of these and more, he says he was blind to.

Now, it's up to you to decide whether he's telling the truth about that, but consider this: If he truly didn't know, couldn't see all of these things after so many years in close association, how blind and gullible is he? If he couldn't see Wright's racism after 20 years, how will he be able to negotiate with Ahmadinajad, Putin, and others? How will he be able to govern, appoint SC judges and cabinet positions, and make decisions when he doesn't even see what his own friends are?

And if he's lying and his DID know what all these people are, what does it say about his character that this is his circle of friends and associates? I certainly don't want a President who pals around with people like that, do you?


Naw... much better to have a guy who, when stationed at MCCAIN field (named after his grandfather), when told by the flight tower that he would have to fly a holding pattern until his turn came to land, told the flight tower, "Either you let me land RIGHT NOW or I'm gonna take My Field and go home!"

His field? Because it was named after his grandfather? Hmm... blatant misuse of family ties/clout combined with a "you can't touch me" attitude and an instant collossal temper that has become legendary among those who know or have worked with him?

Honorable? Go back and read what his highly decorated fellow POW in Viet Nam who didn't break under torture, has to say about McCain's record there. Go look at reports of the spoiled brat dishonorable behavior that McCain slid out of at Annapolis, and on every station he served.

And that's not even going into his actions toward his first, and then his second wife.

My *dog* is more honorable, decent, and patriotic than McCain. And the only person in the playing field that I'd vote for McCain over them is... I *think*... Palin. And that kind of situation doesn't even bear thinking about.

Fortunately, Palin is running *with* McCain... so it makes the choice a helluva lot easier.

[MacQuarrie]

No, he isn't. That's a bullshit Republican talking point manufactured by the National Journal.

I mean, for God's sake, Bernie Sanders IS an actual, real, self-identifying socialist.

Fair enough.

Long and short of it is that while I don't agree with Obama on a lot of policy stuff, I see him as a guy who has tried to be respectful of opposing views, has made an effort to avoid polarizing people, and is the first politician to speak on the subject of race as if his audience was comprised of rational adults.

My ultimate decision to not vote for him is based on these points:

1. I don't think McCain has a chance in hell
2. If by some miracle McCain and Palin win, they can't possibly be as corrupt and malevolently evil as Bush/Cheny have been, so no matter what happens it's an improvement
3. I want to make my little mark in favor of additional parties.

We need to break the stranglehold that the Big Two have on American politics. The two-party system is the source of most of our current political problems.

A test: Is the capital of Kentucky pronounced "Lewis-ville" or "Louie-ville"?

[Michael P]

A test: Is the capital of Kentucky pronounced "Lewis-ville" or "Louie-ville"?
"Frank-fort."

[sk716]

Fair enough.

Long and short of it is that while I don't agree with Obama on a lot of policy stuff, I see him as a guy who has tried to be respectful of opposing views, has made an effort to avoid polarizing people, and is the first politician to speak on the subject of race as if his audience was comprised of rational adults.

My ultimate decision to not vote for him is based on these points:

1. I don't think McCain has a chance in hell
2. If by some miracle McCain and Palin win, they can't possibly be as corrupt and malevolently evil as Bush/Cheny have been, so no matter what happens it's an improvement
3. I want to make my little mark in favor of additional parties.

We need to break the stranglehold that the Big Two have on American politics. The two-party system is the source of most of our current political problems.

A test: Is the capital of Kentucky pronounced "Lewis-ville" or "Louie-ville"?

Frankfort is the capital of Kentucky and the city you mentioned is pronounced Louie-ville as in the Louisville Slugger. . . I should get one of those for use on this board.

[Crowley]

remember hat Samurai has twice posted an obviously photoshopped picture of Robert Byrd and claimed ignorance each time.

What funny is that Briareos and Sam lie sooo much in these forums and just make up information and cling to lies even after they're disproven again and again... it makes you realize that they really don't give a shit about truth at all.

[MacQuarrie]

Frankfort is the capital of Kentucky and the city you mentioned is pronounced Louie-ville as in the Louisville Slugger. . . I should get one of those for use on this board.

That was exactly my point.

The two-party system sets people up to take opposing sides in a pointless argument in which they're both wrong.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

remember hat Samurai has twice posted an obviously photoshopped picture of Robert Byrd and claimed ignorance each time.

What funny is that Briareos and Sam lie sooo much in these forums and just make up information and cling to lies even after they're disproven again and again... it makes you realize that they really don't give a shit about truth at all.

Hey see at this point its about pretty much trashin the guy since you can't really debate their stands on issues. So ya look for links like OBAMA IS A WHITE RACIST or OBAMA is ANTI-SEMITE !

[section 8]

That was exactly my point.

The two-party system sets people up to take opposing sides in a pointless argument in which they're both wrong.

That was the most cleaver thing i;ve ever seen posted on this board!!

[Crowley]

That was exactly my point.

The two-party system sets people up to take opposing sides in a pointless argument in which they're both wrong.

Jon Stewart did a great job taking it to Begala and Carlson on Crossfire on exactly that point:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE

[KevinTBrown]

remember hat Samurai has twice posted an obviously photoshopped picture of Robert Byrd and claimed ignorance each time.

What funny is that Briareos and Sam lie sooo much in these forums and just make up information and cling to lies even after they're disproven again and again... it makes you realize that they really don't give a shit about truth at all.

Briareos and Samurai are like all the other Pubs right now: They don't care if they lose, they just don't want Obama to win or win cleanly.

[Samurai]

You don't think it's "change" to vote for someone who voted with the agenda of the current administration about 90% of the time?

How can you ignore that clear 10%?

That claim was proven false long ago... McCain voted with the Republicans just 57% of the time.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

That claim was proven false long ago... McCain voted with the Republicans just 57% of the time.

He voted along with Bush's Policies from whats been reported...92 times. Obama was being generious saying 90 to help John I suppose.:tongue:

[Stressfactor]

That claim was proven false long ago... McCain voted with the Republicans just 57% of the time.

Aaaaannnddd WRONG AGAIN! Is anyone surprised? From the PolitiFact website: "Obama Nailed It" here you can even read the details for yourself (not that I imagine you will... nor do I imagine you will believe them)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/669/

[glue]

That claim was proven false long ago... McCain voted with the Republicans just 57% of the time.

1. Voting with Bush and voting with Republicans isn't the same thing.
2. How far back are you going to get that 57%? Or better yet, where are you getting that number?

[BnL]

He voted along with Bush's Policies from whats been reported...92 times. Obama was being generious saying 90 to help John I suppose.:tongue:

Hell, McCain himself has proudly proclaimed on camera that he's voted with Bush over 90% of the time.

[Puma]

That claim was proven false long ago... McCain voted with the Republicans just 57% of the time.

I don't know why I even bother but:

John McCain has voted with a majority of his Republican colleagues 88.1% of the time during the current Congress. (110th Congress)This percentage does not include votes in which McCain did not vote. John McCain has missed 420 votes (64.1%) during the current Congress. http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/

During the 109th Congress Sen. McCain voted with his party 81% of the time, according to Congressional Quarterly." http://mediamatters.org/items/200808130001



How far back are you going Samurai?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Hell, McCain himself has proudly proclaimed on camera that he's voted with Bush over 90% of the time.

(acts like a Republican) uhhh uhhh.....that was because that John McCain was a skrull. This new John McCain is the one who existed from the 90's to 2000. Now ya know what happened. HE'S A MAVERICK !

[Paul McEnery]

(acts like a Republican) uhhh uhhh.....that was because that John McCain was a skrull. This new John McCain is the one who existed from the 90's to 2000. Now ya know what happened. HE'S A MAVERICK !

Easy to make the mistake. Skrull's first on the left past Aldebran, Maverick's second on the right.

[thespianphryne]

Easy to make the mistake. Skrull's first on the left past Aldebran, Maverick's second on the right.

Oh . . . I thought it was second star to the right, and straight on until morning.

[Adam C]

Obama does have less relevant experience than Palin. Their actual times in office are about equal but her experience is far more relevant than his is, so in sum total, she has more experience at the job than he does. That's simply a fact.

Still waiting on a response to my post (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7793617&postcount=169) on the subject.

[Gilda Dent]

Fair enough.

Long and short of it is that while I don't agree with Obama on a lot of policy stuff, I see him as a guy who has tried to be respectful of opposing views, has made an effort to avoid polarizing people, and is the first politician to speak on the subject of race as if his audience was comprised of rational adults.

My ultimate decision to not vote for him is based on these points:

1. I don't think McCain has a chance in hell
2. If by some miracle McCain and Palin win, they can't possibly be as corrupt and malevolently evil as Bush/Cheny have been, so no matter what happens it's an improvement
3. I want to make my little mark in favor of additional parties.

We need to break the stranglehold that the Big Two have on American politics. The two-party system is the source of most of our current political problems.

A test: Is the capital of Kentucky pronounced "Lewis-ville" or "Louie-ville"?

This is very close to my reasoning for voting third party this election for President.

There are more than two parties running. There are more than two candidates.

[Typo Lad]

That claim was proven false long ago... McCain voted with the Republicans just 57% of the time.

Nice. Ignore the larger post for the snippet.

And got a source? Puma supplied one.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

This is very close to my reasoning for voting third party this election for President.

There are more than two parties running. There are more than two candidates.

Didn´t Kerry lose to Bush because of that reasoning?

[Typo Lad]

No, Kerry lost to Bush because of:

1) Fear of changing President's mid-conflict.
2) A lack of any real campaign strategy beyond "I'm not the incumbent".

[Gilda Dent]

Didn´t Kerry lose to Bush because of that reasoning?

I'm not going to be upset if McCain loses to Obama for the lack of my vote, so it isn't a big concern of mine.

Also, my vote doesn't automatically belong to one of the big two. The candidate has to earn it. Neither Obama nor McCain has done that. I won't support a candidate I disagree with just because I disagree with his opponent more.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is not a sound method for making decisions on political issues, especially when there are more than two choices.

We don't have a two party system. I feel no obligation to pretend that we do.

[MacQuarrie]

Didn´t Kerry lose to Bush because of that reasoning?

In this case, I'm not invested in either candidate enough to care.

But really, Kerry lost because he was personally off-putting. People didn't like him. He came off as just another spoiled rich prick who thought he was better than everyone else.

By contrast, Obama is likeable, McCain comes off as a nasty old man, and the outcome isn't really in question.