What would force DC to go bankrupt?

[[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite]

What would completely drive DC out of business? A lot of people way back when concluded that the Lee/Kirby Marvel would do this, but that obviously never happened.

None of this would be as a result of DC or even Warner Bros. In fact, let's say that they could be performing the best they've performed in literally decades, with zero screw-ups and with top-notch quality, as well as innovating and making excellent strides.

This would be something like another competitor or company doing so well or doing something so innovative in terms of characters or stories that they would take DC out, like people speculated the Lee/Kirby-era Marvel might do back in the day.

Given this scenario, what would actually cause this to happen?

[Kid Kyoto]

Rising paper and shipping costs.

At $4 a pamphlet, with more ads and inserts than ever I can't see myself EVER going back to buying monthlies. I can see DC and Marvel scrapping their current monthly formats in the next 5 years for either all TPBs or B&W newsprint comics.

I can also see Warner realizing that DC has not really coined any sucessful new characters in a long, long time. What was the last one? Gaiman's Sandman? And therefore holding on to the existing characters but scrapping new projects.

[carabas]

The enforcement by the religious right of the comic book code at its most restrictive.

[Kelson]

The enforcement by the religious right of the comic book code at its most restrictive.

Back in the day, perhaps, but these days they'd just stop putting the Code seal on anything and readers wouldn't even notice.

It's been how long since Marvel stopped using the code?

[JumpingJupiter]

Nobody buying their books.

[Mat001]

Warner Brothers unentangling themselves from DC and thus without constant capital from an assured source, they'd fold. The same could've happen to Marvel. In fact, it almost did. If not for Toy Biz, Marvel would've folded like a tent.

[Samy]

Nevermind, did some fact checking. Ignore this post.

[TeamED209]

I reckon the only way it would happen is if something hit the comic industry in general so you could probably expect marvel to come tumbling down as well...

[K-DoG7p7]

Look at Marvel in the 90's.. now aply it to DC..
thn remove WB

and thats how DC can go bust


but it wont ever happen as long as they are owned by WB.. you just know they will bail out DC

[carabas]

Back in the day, perhaps, but these days they'd just stop putting the Code seal on anything and readers wouldn't even notice.

It's been how long since Marvel stopped using the code?When I said 'enforcement', I really meant enforcement, as in you publish watered down code-aproved books, or you don't publish books at all.

[carabas]

Warner Brothers unentangling themselves from DC and thus without constant capital from an assured source, they'd fold. The same could've happen to Marvel. In fact, it almost did. If not for Toy Biz, Marvel would've folded like a tent.
On the other hand, it would allow DC to start licencing out their own characters, and actually profiting from stuff like Smallville and the Batman films.

[Batman was taken]

I know it's a hypothetical question (and it would take a lot to make the fold anyways), but WB would never let DC go under. The characters are too much of a cash cow. Just look at how much they made from Dark Knight.

[DeTroyes]

I reckon the only way it would happen is if something hit the comic industry in general so you could probably expect marvel to come tumbling down as well...

That's probably it.

And DC would probably last longer than Marvel; I think Time-Warner would back DC longer just to keep the trademarks active. Time-Warner itself would probably have to get into dire straits before DC shut down. Marvel, on the other hand, is its own entity; it has no one to fall back upon than itself.

[K-DoG7p7]

That's probably it.

And DC would probably last longer than Marvel; I think Time-Warner would back DC longer just to keep the trademarks active. Time-Warner itself would probably have to get into dire straits before DC shut down. Marvel, on the other hand, is its own entity; it has no one to fall back upon than itself.

QFT..

to put it like this...

Marvel has gone bust before.. DC has never even been close

[jchichuv]

well people downloading their comics

[Samy]

No.

People downloading their comics *and not buying them*.

Those downloaders who also buy what they download, have no negative effect.

[Ontir]

Time-Warner would have to utterly collapse.

[Leocomix]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;7779744']What would completely drive DC out of business? A lot of people way back when concluded that the Lee/Kirby Marvel would do this, but that obviously never happened.

None of this would be as a result of DC or even Warner Bros. In fact, let's say that they could be performing the best they've performed in literally decades, with zero screw-ups and with top-notch quality, as well as innovating and making excellent strides.

This would be something like another competitor or company doing so well or doing something so innovative in terms of characters or stories that they would take DC out, like people speculated the Lee/Kirby-era Marvel might do back in the day.

Given this scenario, what would actually cause this to happen?

You have wrong information. DC outsold Marvel during all its Lee-Kirby period. Plus DC is part of Warner so to drive DC out of business ypou'd need to drive Warner out of business.

[Lester C.]

Aol Time Warner can still pull the plug on the comics and retain ownership and use of the characters so the haammer can still come down on DC.

[[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite]

Well, for the sake of argument, let's just say given the scenario I listed, a competitor manages to do the impossible... how would this theoretically be done?

[theNighteye]

if no one bought any comics.

[PKIronMan]

DC could fold but they could live solidly through more Vertigo and Vertigo-like titles under other names. And take Jonah Hex over to Vertigo. Sell Green Lantern and some others to Marvel. Close up DC.... wait, I'm not answering your question, but I am having a heckuva a time hoping.

[n2doop5u]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;7790238']Well, for the sake of argument, let's just say given the scenario I listed, a competitor manages to do the impossible... how would this theoretically be done?

Are you DC's arch nemesis?

[DeTroyes]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;7790238']Well, for the sake of argument, let's just say given the scenario I listed, a competitor manages to do the impossible... how would this theoretically be done?

Theoretically? Come out with a better product that's cheaper that everybody wants. Use the profits to buy a controlling interest in Time-Warner. Once you have voted yourself onto the board as CEO, you can do whatever you dang well pleased, including shutting down whatever division you felt like. That's just about the only way I can think of that is even remotely possible.

DC is in a much different position than Marvel or Dark Horse or Image are; they are a corporate-owned division of a huge entertainment conglomerate. The only way to kill the hydra is to cut off all its heads at once, which in this case would have to be the complete annhilation of Time-Warner corporate. Anything less just won't do.

[Lester C.]

No.

People downloading their comics *and not buying them*.

Those downloaders who also buy what they download, have no negative effect.

This isn't true. If the people who legally buy comics started legally downloading comics, which is your right as a consumer, it would kill the last standing local comic shops around the nation as they don't see a dime from that.

This isn't to say I'm against legal downloading as it can in theory greatly expand the comic book market and bring the medium back to its glory days when independent books were selling several hundred thousand copies per issue.

[vazel]

What the hell are some of you talking about? DC is at no risk of closing down even if it were separate from WB. I dislike Didio as much as most of you but he has had successes. If Image and Dark Horse which are at a distant third from DC are at no risk of shuttting down what makes some of you think DC is struggling? Granted in today's comics industry keep the word struggling relative.

[Crisis]

dan dido being in charge another year!!!:eek:

[carabas]

dan dido being in charge another year!!!Why? He has managed to increase sales year in year out during his tenure.

[Captain Smith]

The Anti-Money Equation.

Darkseid becomes head of the Fed. Reserve and raises interest rates to 36%. Lois and Clark are foreclosed out of their condo in Metropolis. Supe's identity becomes known when he tries to pay off his Discover Card in diamonds squeezed from coal.

The Bank of Oa is taken over by Wells Fargo and the GLC paychecks all bounce. They go on strike or join the Orange Lanterns who at least are solvent.

In our world - they write crappy stories that no one buys.

[Sean Walsh]

Look at Marvel in the 90's.. now aply it to DC..
thn remove WB

and thats how DC can go bust

but it wont ever happen as long as they are owned by WB.. you just know they will bail out DC

And to be honest, WB would be complete idiots to not own DC anymore. The successs of THE DARK KNIGHT aside, I believe they're the only part of the publishing branch that actually turns a profit.

Too many calamitous and senseless things would have to happen to even remotely get to DC not being owned by WB, much less DC going bankrupt.

[genius24k]

well people downloading their comics

I don't think downloading has that big effect, since like the other guy said most people that download comics also buy comics and most poeple that buys comics regularly collects them and actually enjoys them, reading comicson the monitor just isn't as fun as reading it on paper. :) just IMHO

[Suzanne]

If DC's sugar daddy Time-Warner went down, they'd probably follow given their sales.

[dancj]

It would take the general public completely losing interest in Batman and Superman and co and all of the films, lunch boxes, computer games etc that use them.

Until then DC could probably make a loss through their comic sales and still stay in business.

[vazel]

If DC's sugar daddy Time-Warner went down, they'd probably follow given their sales. Yea because at 30% marketshare of the comics industry they're just scraping by. :rolleyes:

[Augusto]

No.

People downloading their comics *and not buying them*.

Those downloaders who also buy what they download, have no negative effect.

This isn't true. If the people who legally buy comics started legally downloading comics, which is your right as a consumer, it would kill the last standing local comic shops around the nation as they don't see a dime from that.

This isn't to say I'm against legal downloading as it can in theory greatly expand the comic book market and bring the medium back to its glory days when independent books were selling several hundred thousand copies per issue.

Don't forget this. First of all, to download comics, There are people buying comics to upload. They don't respect copy rights but they support comic bussiness.

[carabas]

I think that most people who download comics wouldn't be reading them anyways if they wouldn't be able to get them for free. Or dpwnload stuff that has been out of print since forever, like Miracle Man and Flex Mentallo.

[Suzanne]

Yea because at 30% marketshare of the comics industry they're just scraping by. :rolleyes:That's why I said "probably."

[Suzanne]

double post

[Lupek]

A couple folks have mentioned that Time Warner would have to go under before DC would be in trouble. But if DC isn't profitable (or becomes unprofitable) as a comics publisher couldn't Time Warner close down the publishing aspect of DC and retain the rights to all the characters for movies and tv? or farm out the production of the books to someone else?

I'd be curious to know what it takes to put one of DC's books out on the market, including paper, ink and the cost of the creative talent. The sales range for DC books on the bubble of getting cancelled seems to range from 20,000 down. I think Jonah Hex is at 12,000 now. Is there anywhere to find out what the profit margin is on a book like Hex? And if they are loss leaders, how long/often can DC keep doing that?

Sorry to dredge up this thread but all the bailout stuff is on my mind.

[John Lynch]

No.

People downloading their comics *and not buying them*.

Those downloaders who also buy what they download, have no negative effect.I don't know any downloader that buys everything they download. At best they buy what they download and like. Which means DC never gets a dime for them trying out a new series or a new creative run.

But hey, downloading doesn't hurt anyone. Right?

If the people who legally buy comics started legally downloading comics,Well first DC needs to offer a legal way for people to do this.

He has managed to increase sales year in year out during his tenure.Citation needed. Because if this is true, DC must have really hit rock bottom before Didio came along.

I think that most people who download comics wouldn't be reading them anyways if they wouldn't be able to get them for free.Everyone can say that as much as they want, but there's only one way to prove that. Until they prove it, they're just ripping off the comic creators, the comic companies and the comic stores. I don't know how anyone who does that could call themselves a fan of comics.

[Thamelas]

Ya know...I can't see them going under unless they really do it to themselves. There are some things people will not go without in a slumping economy. Comics are cheap enough that I feel they will skate right through the current situation. Will they be hit with lower sales? Yes. Will they go under? No. At the end of the day people will not give up their cheap entertainment.

[carabas]

Citation needed. Because if this is true, DC must have really hit rock bottom before Didio came along.Not just DC, but the american comics industry as a whole. I think the market has about doubled in the last ten years or so. Go scourge ICV2.com fo numbers.


Everyone can say that as much as they want, but there's only one way to prove that.
And how exactly do you prove that?

[Spiffy]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;7779744']What would completely drive DC out of business? A lot of people way back when concluded that the Lee/Kirby Marvel would do this, but that obviously never happened.

None of this would be as a result of DC or even Warner Bros. In fact, let's say that they could be performing the best they've performed in literally decades, with zero screw-ups and with top-notch quality, as well as innovating and making excellent strides.

This would be something like another competitor or company doing so well or doing something so innovative in terms of characters or stories that they would take DC out, like people speculated the Lee/Kirby-era Marvel might do back in the day.

Given this scenario, what would actually cause this to happen?

On the face of it, a powerhouse like DC going bankrupt seems near impossible. Even if comic sales slip, they've got merchandising money up the wazoo.

But you can never predict reality. I mean who thought a powerhouse like NBC Universal would be in such a ridiculous position that they'd consider putting Jay Leno on, 5 times a week in prime time, as a cost saving measure? (a stupid ass move that if they go through with it WILL kill the company the rest of the way)

Companies do stupid shit. What would it take to kill DC? Gross mismanagement, that's what.

[superion]

Yea because at 30% marketshare of the comics industry they're just scraping by. :rolleyes:

It's 30% of a market that is minuscule in comparison to what it was a little over a decade ago.

[dancj]

But if DC isn't profitable (or becomes unprofitable) as a comics publisher couldn't Time Warner close down the publishing aspect of DC and retain the rights to all the characters for movies and tv?
They could, but
A - The comics keep interest in the characters alive - which is why DC got into trouble when they killed Jason Todd with the people buying the rights to make Batman and Robin lunch boxes.
B - Comics produce new characters who might find success in films.

[jerrymcl89]

I can't foresee a situation in which DC would actually stop producing comics, because their core characters are still and will continue to be popular enough to stay profitable even if a lot goes wrong. I could foresee a situation in which DC put out a third the number of books that it does today, though. I think raising prices would be likely to make a number of current titles in the below 30K sales range non-viable, especially in the current economy.

[Damiean Dark]

It wouldprobably never happen but if Superman or Batman ever fell out of popularity (batman i thiink moreso) DC would be in major trouble im not sure of the percentage of revenue they produce for DC but it is probably a lot.

[Evan Lanctot]

DC won't totally go under, I don't think, but I can see a scenario like that of the 1950s, where only the big guns(Superman, Batman, etc)would continue to be published. Especially in this day of $4 comics, which is a luxury that I, like many others in this economy, simply cannot afford.

[the4thpip]

What if the government does not bail out Wayne Enterprises? :eek:

[Mat001]

What if the government does not bail out Wayne Enterprises? :eek:

Other way around. Wayne Enterprises bails out the government. :tongue:

[Sean Walsh]

What if the government does not bail out Wayne Enterprises? :eek:

Don't worry, LexCorp to the rescue! :biggrin:

[DeadXMan]

QFT..

to put it like this...

Marvel has gone bust before.. DC has never even been close

they were in the the mid 70's

Marvel almost bought them out but WB got it.

[Trey]

Here's a plan for DC. after all its efforts and costs, they barely make money.

How do you increase profit?

Fire everyone. Publish only these books:

Johns: Action Comics, Superman, Legion of Superheroes, Green Lantern
Morrison: Batman, GL Corps, Teen Titans, The Flash
Dini: Detective, Gotham City (new book), Supergirl

Frank Miller: All-star Batman, Green Arrow
Simone: Wonder Woman
JMS: Brave and the Bold, JSA

Keep Vertigo, Sell Wildstorm and lock Jim Lee in a room.

[BYC]

DC would only file for bankruptcy if they made major errors in marketing or publishing. For example, if they decided to invest tons of money into a Doom Patrol weekly series or spending a ton of money to market Terra as a major player in the DC Universe.

Another words, not very likely.

DC may not be making that much on their comic books, but they probably do make money, and more importantly, they give the general public the publicity of their characters. Superman and Batman are obvious the most important, but all characters need publicity, or they will fade from the limelight. The Dark Knight and to a lesser extent Superman Returns clearly show the general public still want these characters. Smallville is still around, there are always Superman or Batman cartoons on TV, plus endless references to them in numerous media. As long as the public cares about DC's characters (Superman and Batman mainly), they should be able to license their characters into a steady stream of revenue. And as long as they don't do anything incredibly stupid with that revenue (like a publishing tons of books for characters nobody cares about), they will not need to file for bankruptcy.

I am also pretty certain that WB will restructure DC before DC's fiancial woes are totally out of hand.

[carabas]

Here's a plan for DC. after all its efforts and costs, they barely make money.Do you have a source on that?

Sell Wildstorm and lock Jim Lee in a roomAs goes wildstorm, so goes Lee. Sell Wildstorm to Marvel, and Jim Lee will be back on the X-Men in no time.

[shonen]

We wouldn't have to hear about blasted superman or overpowered superheroes ever again. YAY:smile:

[SquidSquod]

Geoff Johns retiring or even going to Marvel is enough to shake confidence on DC. 3 of the next anticipated runs in DC have to go through Johns so DC depends a lot on his output. Add Morrison for a final shock.

[the4thpip]

Geoff Johns retiring or even going to Marvel is enough to shake confidence on DC. 3 of the next anticipated runs in DC have to go through Johns so DC depends a lot on his output. Add Morrison for a final shock.

Only problem is that most of Geoff's Marvel work was much worse than his DC work. I found his Avengers incredibly boring, for example.

[SquidSquod]

Johns is very good in a more restrictive but detailed mythos. Putting him in an less detailed ensemble like the Avengers is unoptimal.

Marvel doesn't need Geoff Johns with its balanced pack of writers. DC would be reeling without him.

[carabas]

Only problem is that most of Geoff's Marvel work was much worse than his DC work. I found his Avengers incredibly boring, for example.Much of that is Marvel's fault. At the time, they had an editorial edict that each and every single story would be 5-6 issues long and be fit for a trade. Which runs counter to John's style and forced him to add some severe padding to his stories.

[Cez12]

Since you can download books now, that would be one.
And I think that they're only real competor that would cause a real threat is Marvel.

[Mat001]

Don't worry, LexCorp to the rescue! :biggrin:

Nah, Lexcorp is the one in need of a bailout. :tongue:

[Chango]

DC would be hurting if a major competitor or a group of small publishers decided to start selling comics online, ala iTunes for example. But if DC stands behind the comic shops while the rest of the industry moved on they would be hurting. Luckily smarter people run companies these days than before when CD stores were crying foul.

[joint venture]

If God exists and then he dies, maybe.

Otherwise, don't fool yourselves. Time Warner will keep publishing comic books and perhaps re-invent paper as long as there a dumb dreamer with great ideas and skills he wants to see printed (Moore, etc. ...all the kings men) in a comic book format.

Out of this creative guys (artists and writers), they get the next generation of files, ideas and stuff they can swap, own or...make a movie.

Talk about breaking Time Warner. That'd hurt DC in the end...maybe.

[americocaine]

Probably losing the right to publish any past and future Superman stories?
Apparently the copyright is STILL in dispute with Siegel family.

It probably wouldn't sink the whole ship but lower them a notch or two towards the bottom near the indie publishers.

Man, DC has had a hard time with entertainment rights as of late from Superman's character to the Watchmen movie.

[Mundungus]

Readership-wise, it's possible for people to read multiple books from multiple companies (most people here do it, I assume). So realistically, as long as both publishers are putting out quality books, why not get both (everyone can agree that they've bought a book despite not having money for it at least once in their life)? Marvel and DC have been doing it for years and while Marvel has usually been ahead, DC has continued just fine.

And to whoever said that Warner Bros. would grow tired of DC not putting out any new properties for them to, what? Milk? They aren't creating any film properties out of DC's characters anyway outside of Batman and Superman, some good animated shows. Shazam just fell through the roof. I think they just scrapped a lot of film projects. Didio also commented that Warner Bros. feels satisfied with their output. So no problem there. DC would be at risked if Warner Bros. really wanted to invest in their characters outside of comics. Which up until now it hasn't been that significant (outside of animation, really).

[DeadXMan]

I question WB bussniess choices about DC when they have said a batman/superman moive would never work:confused:

[joint venture]

Readership-wise, it's possible for people to read multiple books from multiple companies (most people here do it, I assume). So realistically, as long as both publishers are putting out quality books, why not get both (everyone can agree that they've bought a book despite not having money for it at least once in their life)? Marvel and DC have been doing it for years and while Marvel has usually been ahead, DC has continued just fine.

And to whoever said that Warner Bros. would grow tired of DC not putting out any new properties for them to, what? Milk? They aren't creating any film properties out of DC's characters anyway outside of Batman and Superman, some good animated shows. Shazam just fell through the roof. I think they just scrapped a lot of film projects. Didio also commented that Warner Bros. feels satisfied with their output. So no problem there. DC would be at risked if Warner Bros. really wanted to invest in their characters outside of comics. Which up until now it hasn't been that significant (outside of animation, really).

1- How many Batman movies?
2-How many Superman movies?
3-tv series?
4- Animation, from "prestige format" New Frontier to JLU. And please consider animation in the same level as movies. Not only does it involve artists and writers, but directos, voice actors, producers, teams, etc.
5- All the Warner toon characters that end up PRINTED in comic books.
6- Vertigo like/ Vertigo characters movies and tv series (Fables, Hellblazer,etc)
7- Creator owned stuff like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, V for Vendetta, Watchmen, From Hell, so on and so forth.
8- Upcoming GL movie??????
9- All the comic books DC publishes and sells monthly. Oh, and add graphic novels please.
10- I know this is just an ignorant's sample, but to quench your thirst: all the merchandising, toys, advertising, action figures, etc. they put out to sell...

Yeah right. DC isn't profitable to Time Warner in any way.