Britney's back, y'all!

[AlistairCrane]

Check out her new video for Womanizer. She's baaaack! :biggrin:

http://buzzworthy.mtv.com/2008/10/10/britney-spears-new-womanizer-video-watch-the-directors-cut/

[DonC]

So, aside from the obvious media attention grab, is there a reason she spends half the video naked?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

So, aside from the obvious media attention grab, is there a reason she spends half the video naked?

Its to show off the goods ya know. She gotta show that she is back lookin hot again to the public. Not like many will care...since Christina done did the near naked dancing/sweat video 5-6 years ago.

The best part of the video is her beating the guy up . Its very cartoonish in a way with her in wigs and shit. Really the naked sweating clips don't have a place in the video at all. But she's trying for a comeback so ...ya expect it.

[rick]

So, aside from the obvious media attention grab, is there a reason she spends half the video naked?


I worry about you sometimes man, I really do. :rolleyes:

[Spike-X]

There needs to be a reason?

[howyadoin]

Does the video only work in the States? I just haven't seen enough of her pubic stubble and her Cesarean scar.

[AlistairCrane]

So, aside from the obvious media attention grab, is there a reason she spends half the video naked?

To be fair, the guy is naked a lot too. Equal opportunity!! :tongue:

[leonaozaki]

Wow, my brain needs cleaning.

It's just like Lewis Black said years ago about her: "Can't sing, can't dance, boobs, ass, boobs, ass, ass, ass, boobs."

That was pretty sad.

rob

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Wow, my brain needs cleaning.

It's just like Lewis Black said years ago about her: "Can't sing, can't dance, boobs, ass, boobs, ass, ass, ass, boobs."

That was pretty sad.

rob

Ha ha ha .....that sums up the video to a tee. How right is Lewis Black years ago that Britney would make a video like that.

[glue]

square egg

[Alex]

Jesus.
They didn't even have a producer fake up her voice, they added effects to her talking.
Bah.

[Michael P]

Oh, good, that means she'll go away again in a few months.

[Shellhead]

Why is this thread in the Music forum? At best, Britney has only a tangential relationship to the "music" bearing her name. She is a silly young woman with an attractive but increasingly full face. But musician? She doesn't compose her own music or even come up with lyrics. She doesn't play an instrument. She probably can't even read sheet music. Her concerts are all lip-synchs, poses and dance moves. And her studio albums are so heavily produced that they could feature pretty much any young woman's vocals, and that may even be the case.

[AlistairCrane]

Wow, my brain needs cleaning.

It's just like Lewis Black said years ago about her: "Can't sing, can't dance, boobs, ass, boobs, ass, ass, ass, boobs."

That was pretty sad.

rob

And now you're on my ignore list for being mean. And wrong.

[AlistairCrane]

She doesn't compose her own music or even come up with lyrics.

Wrong. Since her second album in 2000, Britney has taken an increased role in the composition of her songs. She has song-writing credits on her last four albums.

She doesn't play an instrument. She probably can't even read sheet music.

Wrong again. Britney composed "Everytime" on piano which she has played live before.

It seems to me before you open your mouth to talk or type, you should actually learn a little about the person you're criticizing. Because everything you're saying is a bunch of nonsense, and when I come around and prove you wrong, you end up looking like a fool.

Just sayin'. :smile:

[Shellhead]

Wrong. Since her second album in 2000, Britney has taken an increased role in the composition of her songs. She has song-writing credits on her last four albums.



Wrong again. Britney composed "Everytime" on piano which she has played live before.

It seems to me before you open your mouth to talk or type, you should actually learn a little about the person you're criticizing. Because everything you're saying is a bunch of nonsense, and when I come around and prove you wrong, you end up looking like a fool.

Just sayin'. :smile:

Britney takes credit, but is it real? We know that she can't actually be singing in in concert, because she's doing all that dancing. So just because she gets behind the piano and moves her hands doesn't mean that you are actually hearing *that* piano. Until I see an Unplugged style performance from Britney, I consider her just a prettier version of the Millie Vanilli guys.

[howyadoin]

And now you're on my ignore list for being mean. And wrong.Welcome to the club, Rob! We meet every Friday and listen to good music.

[leonaozaki]

Welcome to the club, Rob! We meet every Friday and listen to good music.

Thanks, howy! Have you heard the new Springsteen, Magic? I only got it a few months back and I'm really digging it.

rob

[Agent Helix]

This thread is a fascinating peek into one man's really boring journey into madness.

[Romero]

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2007/aug/10/the-songs-of-others/

The above is an interesting little article that uses the controversy regarding Avril Lavigne's "songwriting ability" to discuss more about performers claiming songwriting credits they don't deserve.

There is also a recent controversy about Beyonce stealing a song.

Just saying is all...

[AlistairCrane]

Britney takes credit, but is it real? We know that she can't actually be singing in in concert, because she's doing all that dancing. So just because she gets behind the piano and moves her hands doesn't mean that you are actually hearing *that* piano. Until I see an Unplugged style performance from Britney, I consider her just a prettier version of the Millie Vanilli guys.

Wrong again. MV flatout lied and used other people's voices entirely. They were frauds. Big, big difference.

Britney, like many popstars, including Madonna, may use pre-recorded vocals in concert, but at least they are her vocals.

Why don't you come with me to her show? She's touring in '09.

[DonC]

I worry about you sometimes man, I really do. :rolleyes:


Well, I did watch the video without the sound on. That has to count for something.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Welcome to the club, Rob! We meet every Friday and listen to good music.

Thanks, howy! Have you heard the new Springsteen, Magic? I only got it a few months back and I'm really digging it.

rob

That has "Radio Nowhere" on it doesn't it ? Now thats a good fucking song. If Britney had the talent to do what THE BOSS does...maybe I'd care more.



This thread is a fascinating peek into one man's really boring journey into madness.

Go hunt down the last thread about Britney. I was the 1st to suffer his wraith of IGNORE.

Wrong again. MV flatout lied and used other people's voices entirely. They were frauds. Big, big difference.

Britney, like many popstars, including Madonna, may use pre-recorded vocals in concert, but at least they are her vocals.

Why don't you come with me to her show? She's touring in '09.

I speak for myself when I say...you have a better shot of me becoming a Priest than me ever going to watch a lip synching Britney Spears concert. Save yourself the money man....she's not performing anyhow....you can watch on TV and see her lip synch !

[Spike-X]

Thanks, howy! Have you heard the new Springsteen, Magic? I only got it a few months back and I'm really digging it.

rob

It's a pretty damn fine album, ain't it?

That has "Radio Nowhere" on it doesn't it ? Now thats a good fucking song.

It's not bad, but it's far from the strongest song on the album. Maybe you should check it out when you're picking up the Axl Rose Band album next month?

If Britney had the talent to do what THE BOSS does...maybe I'd care more.



You mean like sing? And write music? and play a few instruments?

[Spike-X]

She's touring in '09.

I hope she bothers actually rehearsing for this one, unlike that embarrassing MTV Awards performance she stumbled her way through a while back.

[Shellhead]

I like her music. I want to hear it all the time.

Greetings... sockpuppet.

[howyadoin]

Greetings... sockpuppet.Heh. Check this out:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/search.php?searchid=3593165

[AlistairCrane]

I hope she bothers actually rehearsing for this one, unlike that embarrassing MTV Awards performance she stumbled her way through a while back.

If you actually followed Britney's career (you're clearly not a fan--therefore your opinion of Brit is less relevant), you'd know she is doing so.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Why don't you come with me to her show? She's touring in '09.

I am without a life, I'll grant you, but not that without one.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

It's not bad, but it's far from the strongest song on the album. Maybe you should check it out when you're picking up the Axl Rose Band album next month?

I may do that....but my 1st buy will be the album I've dreamed about for over a decade. And thats "Chinese Democracy" !


You mean like sing? And write music? and play a few instruments?

I was gonna say the singing and being able to write great tunes. I mean I would give her the benefit of the doubt for playing instruments. Axl Rose played panio ...it was the only instrument he learned as a kid. But he did later shockingly learn to play guitar and in 2001 played it during Rock in Rio.

2001: Madagascar (Rose plays near the end)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5IiQXZ4JaM


If during her time away...if Britney would learn to play an instrument...how shocking would it be ? It would show she's evolving some. That she wants to do more than shake her naked sweaty ass during a video.


I hope she bothers actually rehearsing for this one, unlike that embarrassing MTV Awards performance she stumbled her way through a while back.

Her do actual work ? Well its said her money situation may force her to actually go back to work and do a tour. So I expect her to bust her ass to get the $$$ .

If you actually followed Britney's career (you're clearly not a fan--therefore your opinion of Brit is less relevant), you'd know she is doing so.

Ok... name 1 live performance beyond the MTV thing in 2-3 years. Can you name one where she performed ? And hell I admit in the clip above I posted... Rose was outta shape. He hadn't performed live in 6-7 years .And he later admitted he was in piss poor shape then and shouldn't have tried to tour in 2002.

[Spike-X]

If you actually followed Britney's career...

I would, but these toenails ain't gonna clip themselves!

[Spike-X]

Greetings... sockpuppet.
Not a sockpuppet.

Just some random spammer (the links in the sig are a dead giveaway) that happened to turn up.

It's rumoured that some boards have these people called 'moderators' to keep that kind of thing under control.

[rick]

I like her music. I want to hear it all the time.

Wait a minute.

There was music in that video?

Well shit, I just thought someone was torturing a cat.

[Shellhead]

There was a time when music was just about, you know, music. If it sounded good, people liked it. Thanks to MTV, music became more about sight than sound for a time. In particular, female musicians became valued more for their looks than their talents. Eventually, the balance tipped so far in favor of looks that we got no-talent hacks like Britney.

The problem is, when you base your entire career on sex appeal, you've got to maintain your beauty and also sustain a sense of mystery and sexiness. Gorging on junk food and then displaying her vagina to the paparazzi was a terrible career move for Britney, and she will probably never regain her previous popularity. Even CBR's own self-proclaimed Britney Spears Guy was so traumatized by her icky relationship with that he abandoned her for Ginger Spice (aka Old Spice).

[AlistairCrane]

I am without a life, I'll grant you, but not that without one.

Then you're missing out on an amazing night.

[AlistairCrane]

There was a time when music was just about, you know, music. If it sounded good, people liked it. Thanks to MTV, music became more about sight than sound for a time. In particular, female musicians became valued more for their looks than their talents. Eventually, the balance tipped so far in favor of looks that we got no-talent hacks like Britney.

The problem is, when you base your entire career on sex appeal, you've got to maintain your beauty and also sustain a sense of mystery and sexiness. Gorging on junk food and then displaying her vagina to the paparazzi was a terrible career move for Britney, and she will probably never regain her previous popularity. Even CBR's own self-proclaimed Britney Spears Guy was so traumatized by her icky relationship with that he abandoned her for Ginger Spice (aka Old Spice).

Britney Spears has more talent than your mama.

It's not like she just popped up out of nowhere--Britney won Star Search and she was a Mousketeer, so your assertion that she has no talent is wrong.

As for you, I hate you now for attacking Britney. Welcome to my ignore list, ______.

[Shellhead]

As for you, I hate you now for attacking Britney. Welcome to my ignore list, ______.

It's like a form letter.

[Romero]

That "Leave Britney Alone" bit is so last year.

[AlistairCrane]

That "Leave Britney Alone" bit is so last year.

I won't stop until people actually listen and leave her alone.

[Ontir]

I'm not listening. I intend to leave her all alone.

[Spike-X]

I won't stop until people actually listen and leave her alone.
Okay, you can stop now. This schtick's getting old.

[howyadoin]

It's not like she just popped up out of nowhere--Britney won Star Search and she was a Mousketeer, so your assertion that she has no talent is wrong.Equating the fucking Mickey Mouse Club with talent is a sure sign of the impending Apocalypse.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

It's like a form letter.

Hey welcome to the club. We have meetings on Tuesdays and plot the end of Britney's career.

I won't stop until people actually listen and leave her alone.

Never gonna happen since she writes such good comedy and we can mock it.

Equating the fucking Mickey Mouse Club with talent is a sure sign of the impending Apocalypse.

I thought the 1st sign of the Apocalypse was the release of Chinese Democracy ?:tongue:

[Ben Morgan]

Is this guy serious?

[howyadoin]

Is this guy serious?Oh, you'll find out, mister. Just you wait.

[Shellhead]

Is this guy serious?

[AlistairCrane]That's it, ______! You're going on the ignore list, too!!![AlistairCrane]

[Shellhead]

Hey welcome to the club. We have meetings on Tuesdays and plot the end of Britney's career.


When I first joined CBR in 2002, one of my early posts predicted that Britney Spears would be "turning tricks in Encino" by the time she turns 30. So I guess that's my contribution to plotting the end of her career. She can personally attend to the details between now and then.

[Slam_Bradley]

Is this guy serious?

Tread lightly. He'll ignore you at the drop of a hat.

[AlistairCrane]

Is this guy serious?

Yes I am. Go ask anyone at Newsarama if they know someone who loves Britney Spears. That

I love her. She honestly changed my life when she debuted ten years ago. I was at just the right age. Now I'm 22 and I still think she's fantastic.

[howyadoin]

Yes I am. Go ask anyone at Newsarama if they know someone who loves Britney Spears. That

I love her. She honestly changed my life when she debuted ten years ago. I was at just the right age. Now I'm 22 and I still think she's fantastic.Is this guy DDM's little brother?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Yes I am. Go ask anyone at Newsarama if they know someone who loves Britney Spears. That

I love her. She honestly changed my life when she debuted ten years ago. I was at just the right age. Now I'm 22 and I still think she's fantastic.

Is this guy DDM's little brother?

Whats comical is that he thought I was younger than he was calling me "Kid" and all. At 22 I was jamming to the alternative music like Smashing Pumpkins , Soundgarden , Pearl Jam ect ect. Thank god I grew up in a different era.

Even my little cousin has started jamming to Metallica and Slipnot....and he's 15 ! Dear god thank you that these acts have impoded...:tongue:

[Romero]

Newsarama?

You were "Colourman" over there??? (Among other names)

[Shellhead]

She honestly changed my life when she debuted ten years ago. I was at just the right age.

Playboy and Penthouse magazines "changed my life" when I was 13.

[leonaozaki]

Whatever they ask of you, don't feed the trolls!

rob

[J. Robb]

Britney Spears is practically a fictional character at this point. The media has gone from reporting her story to forming it. Britney's "comeback" at the MTV awards was all part of the usual "Behind the Music" storyarc, this time told in realtime.

I do feel somewhat bad for her, though. The media is only building her up to tear her back down again, and I doubt she realizes that.

[Shellhead]

I do feel somewhat bad for her, though. The media is only building her up to tear her back down again, and I doubt she realizes that.

That's true, and that does make me feel a little bit sorry for her. However, if she remembers to put her panties on before leaving home every day, Britney can probably retain at least a little dignity the second time around.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Britney Spears is practically a fictional character at this point. The media has gone from reporting her story to forming it. Britney's "comeback" at the MTV awards was all part of the usual "Behind the Music" storyarc, this time told in realtime.

I do feel somewhat bad for her, though. The media is only building her up to tear her back down again, and I doubt she realizes that.

Her comeback was basically coming out and presenting an award. Its not her performing or anything.

[rick]

Equating the fucking Mickey Mouse Club with talent is a sure sign of the impending Apocalypse.


Oh come one now.

Annette did a really good job in all of those beach party movies, and don’t forget that Bobby had quite the career as part of the dance team of Bobby and Sissy on the Lawrence Welk Show.

And Cubby drummed for the Carpenters.

[rick]

I do feel somewhat bad for her, though. The media is only building her up to tear her back down again, and I doubt she realizes that.


But the harvest will be a good one.

[Jonathan Bogart]

It's the best of both worlds. Those of us who don't have an irrational hatred of dance-pop can enjoy the music produced under her name, and everyone can revel in the schadenfreude!

[howyadoin]

Oh come one now.

Annette did a really good job in all of those beach party movies, and don’t forget that Bobby had quite the career as part of the dance team of Bobby and Sissy on the Lawrence Welk Show.

And Cubby drummed for the Carpenters.I thought the only one who wasn't a doofus was Tommy Ivo, actually.

[Spike-X]

Hey welcome to the club. We have meetings on Tuesdays and plot the end of Britney's career.

Why go to all that trouble when she's doing such a good job of ending it all by herself?


I love her. She honestly changed my life when she debuted ten years ago.

I know. My life changed too once I found out what my pee-pee was really for.

I was at just the right age. Now I'm 22 and I still think she's fantastic.

At least when you were twelve, you had the excuse of not knowing any better.

[Agent Helix]

It's the best of both worlds. Those of us who don't have an irrational hatred of dance-pop can enjoy the music produced under her name, and everyone can revel in the schadenfreude!

While I definitely agree there's no real reason to hate acts like Britney Spears, you gotta admit this guy's threads are a laff-and-a-haff.

[jessecuster3]

I read something today that this song is actually her first Billboard #1 since ...Baby, One More Time.

[AlistairCrane]

I read something today that this song is actually her first Billboard #1 since ...Baby, One More Time.

It is. If sales for Toxic had also factored in digital sales, it would've been number one as well.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I read something today that this song is actually her first Billboard #1 since ...Baby, One More Time.

Which is pretty comical since Billboard gave her last single (after she tanked the MTV Music awards last year) a #2 or #3 spot on the hot 100. And the effect was... sales didn't go anywhere...she sold 800,000+ copies of the album.

It would shock me if her next album sells anywhere near platinum. No matter how many cherry picked 1#'s on Billboard she gets.

[leonaozaki]

It's the best of both worlds. Those of us who don't have an irrational hatred of dance-pop can enjoy the music produced under her name, and everyone can revel in the schadenfreude!

Surely there's a difference between irrationally hating Britney Spears and irrationally hating dance-pop?

rob

[Spike-X]

Which is pretty comical since Billboard gave her last single (after she tanked the MTV Music awards last year) a #2 or #3 spot on the hot 100. And the effect was... sales didn't go anywhere...she sold 800,000+ copies of the album.

It would shock me if her next album sells anywhere near platinum. No matter how many cherry picked 1#'s on Billboard she gets.
Umm...you don't know how the charts actually work, do you?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Umm...you don't know how the charts actually work, do you?

I had thoought it was radio airplay...to be honest.

[TDroon]

Which is pretty comical since Billboard gave her last single (after she tanked the MTV Music awards last year) a #2 or #3 spot on the hot 100. And the effect was... sales didn't go anywhere...she sold 800,000+ copies of the album.

It would shock me if her next album sells anywhere near platinum. No matter how many cherry picked 1#'s on Billboard she gets.

Wow, you know absolutely nothing about the music industry or what Billboard magazine actually does.

Billboard magazine doesn't give artists particular spots on any of their music charts, and haven't for almost 20 years.

Granted, back before the days of Soundscan, there was a lot of under-reporting of particular types and genres of music, especially country and rap, but those days are well over.

You can't cheat with Soundscan or with digital downloads.

And I just love how you scoff and take a shit over her last album selling 800,000 copies. Do you know how many albums have sold over 1,000,000 copies this year?

About 10.

In these days of illegal dowlnloading (which by the way you contribute to with your endless posts with links to illegal downloads on Youtube), the days when an album would sell 10,000,000 copies are over.

800,000 copies sold is a fabulous achievement.

Fuck you'd be shrieking it from the rooftops if G'NR sold half that many copies.

[Spike-X]

I had thoought it was radio airplay...to be honest.
Nope. It's sales.

And even if it was radio airplay, it still wouldn't be in Billboard's power to 'give' an artist the #1 spot, would it? Billboard doesn't control what songs get played on the radio.

[Spike-X]

If during her time away...if Britney would learn to play an instrument...how shocking would it be ?

Even Madonna's learned to band out a couple of chords on the guitar, so I suppose anything's possible.

[howyadoin]

800,000 copies sold is a fabulous achievement.

Fuck you'd be shrieking it from the rooftops if G'NR sold half that many copies.They'd need to actually release an album, first.

[Spike-X]

They'd need to actually release an album, first.
NOVEMBER 25th, BABY !!! BOOGITA-BOOGITA!!!
















...ooops. Got so excited there, a little bit of wee came out.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Wow, you know absolutely nothing about the music industry or what Billboard magazine actually does.

Billboard magazine doesn't give artists particular spots on any of their music charts, and haven't for almost 20 years.

Granted, back before the days of Soundscan, there was a lot of under-reporting of particular types and genres of music, especially country and rap, but those days are well over.

You can't cheat with Soundscan or with digital downloads.

And I just love how you scoff and take a shit over her last album selling 800,000 copies. Do you know how many albums have sold over 1,000,000 copies this year?

About 10.

And how many are in their prime ? Not old has beens who have seen better days like Britney ? 800,000+ copies is over gold. But not platinum. And its a huge drop from her career highs...

Baby One More Time - 14 million copies sold USA
Oops I Did It Again- 12 Million sold USA
Britney - 5 million copies USA
In the Zone - 3 Million copies USA
Blackout - 800,000 copies ! USA

This isn't a good sign...and its clear her next album may barely crack gold at this rate....and even if you try and spin that things are awesome and selling 800,000 copies is great....its not when your career is in freefall.

In these days of illegal dowlnloading (which by the way you contribute to with your endless posts with links to illegal downloads on Youtube), the days when an album would sell 10,000,000 copies are over.

Well Nickelback (no huge fan) just celebrated getting 6 million copies of an album sold. Sure the old dinosaurs selling albums has changed. Welcome to the new era...and I am happy to keep linking to youtube.com since they have videos there and some bands are more than pleased to promote their music on youtube and Myspace.

800,000 copies sold is a fabulous achievement.

Fuck you'd be shrieking it from the rooftops if G'NR sold half that many copies.

This will shock you.... even a Greatest Hits package from 2003 by Guns n Roses outsold Britney's last 2 albums....combined. Thats hits that likely everyone has...

And CD is coming out and I'll shriek regardless .

Nope. It's sales.

And even if it was radio airplay, it still wouldn't be in Billboard's power to 'give' an artist the #1 spot, would it? Billboard doesn't control what songs get played on the radio.

Ahhh thanks...

Even Madonna's learned to band out a couple of chords on the guitar, so I suppose anything's possible.

Madonna shocked me once when she did a rap song. Now thats some guts.

They'd need to actually release an album, first.

NOVEMBER 25th, BABY !!! BOOGITA-BOOGITA!!!
















...ooops. Got so excited there, a little bit of wee came out.

Track listing and 1 of the 3 collector cover albums art is up at Best Buy.com . You can also click the Guns n Roses thread to see the track listing ! :)

[howyadoin]

NOVEMBER 25th, BABY !!! BOOGITA-BOOGITA!!!



...ooops. Got so excited there, a little bit of wee came out.A month away, and there's still no website? No publicity from the "band"?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

A month away, and there's still no website? No publicity from the "band"?

Uhhh they annouced it last week or 2 and have started moving ahead on it promotion wise. 'Shacklers Revenge" was placed into the video game Rock Band 2 . And the song "If the World" was played at the end of Body of Lies .

Dr.Pepper has already said their stepping up to keep their deal... free soda for people since the album is coming out.

As weeks build I suspect we'll see a music video and single pushed to radio.

[Jonathan Bogart]

Surely there's a difference between irrationally hating Britney Spears and irrationally hating dance-pop?
I suppose. But (at least from where I sit) she's one of the key figures of modern dance-pop, so the correlation seems general.

[howyadoin]

Uhhh they annouced it last week or 2 and have started moving ahead on it promotion wise. 'Shacklers Revenge" was placed into the video game Rock Band 2 . And the song "If the World" was played at the end of Body of Lies.And "Oh My God" was on the End of Days soundtrack.

9 years ago.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And "Oh My God" was on the End of Days soundtrack.

9 years ago.

Oh My God isn't on the current track listing of the album...

[4thHorseman]

Wow, like everything else she's done in her singing career, the song is complete trash. Couldn't even watch the whole thing.

[howyadoin]

It's the best of both worlds. Those of us who don't have an irrational hatred of dance-pop can enjoy the music produced under her name, and everyone can revel in the schadenfreude!Is that hatred of dance-pop really any different from the way you sneer at artists you don't like, though?

[AlistairCrane]

Wow, like everything else she's done in her singing career, the song is complete trash. Couldn't even watch the whole thing.

Your loss. This is one of her best songs, and by far her best video.

[leonaozaki]

I suppose. But (at least from where I sit) she's one of the key figures of modern dance-pop, so the correlation seems general.

Well, if Britney is dance-pop then I guess I hate it. But is an artist like Goldfrapp (which I do genuinely like a lot) less central to dance-pop because they haven't sold as much as Britney?

Why is she so central, exactly? I agree that some of her earlier material was catchy in a way, but I can't really see what she brings to the table that somebody else with more talent but less sales didn't do first, or better.

rob

[Jonathan Bogart]

Is that hatred of dance-pop really any different from the way you sneer at artists you don't like, though?
I think so, but of course I would; we're all ready to think our opinion is the minority while the one we're reacting against is the majority.

I'm having trouble coming up with artists I've sneered at, especially recently -- but I'm pretty sure that no matter how dismissive I've been there wasn't an undercurrent of misogyny to my sneers. (Yeah, I know, it's a geek board and no one will admit misogyny exists. I still gotta say it.)

[howyadoin]

I think so, but of course I would; we're all ready to think our opinion is the minority while the one we're reacting against is the majority.

I'm having trouble coming up with artists I've sneered at, especially recently -- but I'm pretty sure that no matter how dismissive I've been there wasn't an undercurrent of misogyny to my sneers.Fair point.

[leonaozaki]

I think so, but of course I would; we're all ready to think our opinion is the minority while the one we're reacting against is the majority.

I'm having trouble coming up with artists I've sneered at, especially recently -- but I'm pretty sure that no matter how dismissive I've been there wasn't an undercurrent of misogyny to my sneers. (Yeah, I know, it's a geek board and no one will admit misogyny exists. I still gotta say it.)

So, wait, dismissing Britney is misogynist now? What if I hate Justin Timberlake too? Am I guilty of misandry?

rob

[Jonathan Bogart]

Well, if Britney is dance-pop then I guess I hate it. But is an artist like Goldfrapp (which I do genuinely like a lot) less central to dance-pop because they haven't sold as much as Britney?
Kind of. In pop genres, sales do matter: the more people that are exposed to a musical idea, the more central to the pop culture discourse that idea is. And in pop culture, even people who don't appear to think clearly or express themselves well (like this thread's host) get a vote.

But it's more complex than that. Goldfrapp's even had an impact on recent chart dance-pop: Katy Perry, Christina Aguilera, and Pink all have singles in the charts riffing on their glitter-disco identity of a few years back (circa "Ooh La La"). Which no one who didn't listen to both would know; they inform each other. Hell, Britney's last go-round ("Gimme More") sounded more like the Knife than anything else.

But I'm wondering what makes Goldfrapp so immediately superior, in your eyes, to the field of chart-pop? ("Writing their own material" doesn't count; I don't recognize any qualitative difference between Lennon/McCartney and Dozier/Holland/Dozier, and I see no particular reason why forty years should make a difference.)

[Jonathan Bogart]

So, wait, dismissing Britney is misogynist now?
I didn't say that. I said (or rather implied) that misogyny has existed in [some] dismissals of Britney. Reread the thread and I bet you can find some too.

[howyadoin]

In pop genres, sales do matter: the more people that are exposed to a musical idea, the more central to the pop culture discourse that idea is.Is there necessarily a direct correlation between sales and the number of people who are exposed to the musical idea, though? I mean, I've been exposed to thousands of musical ideas that I wouldn't in a million years buy a copy of (Britney's songs, for instance).

[Jonathan Bogart]

Is there necessarily a direct correlation between sales and the number of people who are exposed to the musical idea, though? I mean, I've been exposed to thousands of musical ideas that I wouldn't in a million years buy a copy of (Britney's songs, for instance).
But anything that omnipresent has obviously been bought by a lot of people. Not you or anyone you know ... but they're out there.

[leonaozaki]

I didn't say that. I said (or rather implied) that misogyny has existed in [some] dismissals of Britney. Reread the thread and I bet you can find some too.

No, I know what you're talking about. It was a smart-ass reply and the minute I posted it I almost thought better of it. My apologies.

rob

[leonaozaki]

But I'm wondering what makes Goldfrapp so immediately superior, in your eyes, to the field of chart-pop? ("Writing their own material" doesn't count; I don't recognize any qualitative difference between Lennon/McCartney and Dozier/Holland/Dozier, and I see no particular reason why forty years should make a difference.)

It's late and I've had a long week so I can't give this post the reply it deserves but I wanted to respond to this.

I'm not sure I find Goldfrapp "immediately superior" to La Brit. I think their music is more interesting and I get a lot more out of it than I do Britney's. I think of Goldfapp as related to chart-pop; they did chart in Britain at least.

I wasn't going to use them as some of kind of gold (Ha ha!) standard because they write their songs; at the end of the day I own some of Goldfrapp CD's and enjoy their music, which I can't imagine I would ever say about Britney. As I've said before on this topic, I don't really value "authenticity" in my music anymore; I value personality. I just don't see that Britney's music has any. Let's take "Toxic." I remember I heard about it before I heard it. Many commentators were pretty excited about the Middle Eastern flavor of the music, and I thought that sounded marginally interesting so I checked it out. I gave it a fair listen, I thought, but concluded that if I really wanted that kind of music with some wit and personality I'd just listen to Portishead records.

rob

[leonaozaki]

But I'm wondering what makes Goldfrapp so immediately superior, in your eyes, to the field of chart-pop? ("Writing their own material" doesn't count; I don't recognize any qualitative difference between Lennon/McCartney and Dozier/Holland/Dozier, and I see no particular reason why forty years should make a difference.)

Also, Alison Goldfrapp is immensely more talented as a singer than Britney Spears.

rob

[Jonathan Bogart]

Let's take "Toxic." I remember I heard about it before I heard it. Many commentators were pretty excited about the Middle Eastern flavor of the music, and I thought that sounded marginally interesting so I checked it out. I gave it a fair listen, I thought, but concluded that if I really wanted that kind of music with some wit and personality I'd just listen to Portishead records.
Huh. I don't think I'd ever compare "Toxic" to Portishead. For one thing, its tempo is set somewhere above narcotic. [/snark]

I tend to agree that Britney as a vocalist is pretty personality-free, but that's not a deal-breaker for me, so long as the specific song moves in interesting ways. And there's another point nagging in the back of my mind, something Greil-Marcusian about how Britney's lack of personality is a symbol for her entire generation's inability to find modes of being that aren't mediated by mass culture, but I'll have to chew on it and see if there's anything there. I find her interesting more than admirable, but I don't need to admire something to enjoy it.

[leonaozaki]

Huh. I don't think I'd ever compare "Toxic" to Portishead. For one thing, its tempo is set somewhere above narcotic. [/snark]

I tend to agree that Britney as a vocalist is pretty personality-free, but that's not a deal-breaker for me, so long as the specific song moves in interesting ways. And there's another point nagging in the back of my mind, something Greil-Marcusian about how Britney's lack of personality is a symbol for her entire generation's inability to find modes of being that aren't mediated by mass culture, but I'll have to chew on it and see if there's anything there. I find her interesting more than admirable, but I don't need to admire something to enjoy it.

It's not that I don't find some of her songs to be catchy...it's just that I don't think that's such a great achievement if that's all there is to the song. That's the point of dance-pop, right? To give people something to dance to? Sure, "it's got a good beat and you dance to it" used to be a pretty high compliment -- and meant a lot more back in the late 90's when so much music seemed to be impossible to dance to-- but, to my ears anyway, Britney's got too much competition now. I can find plenty of music (not just Goldfrapp!) that's danceable, varied, and interesting.

I think I can listen to her in very limited doses. If I try to listen to more than two songs of hers in a row all the beats start to sound the same.

rob

[leonaozaki]

Huh. I don't think I'd ever compare "Toxic" to Portishead. For one thing, its tempo is set somewhere above narcotic. [/snark]



Well, I guess I deserved that one.



I tend to agree that Britney as a vocalist is pretty personality-free, but that's not a deal-breaker for me, so long as the specific song moves in interesting ways. And there's another point nagging in the back of my mind, something Greil-Marcusian about how Britney's lack of personality is a symbol for her entire generation's inability to find modes of being that aren't mediated by mass culture, but I'll have to chew on it and see if there's anything there. I find her interesting more than admirable, but I don't need to admire something to enjoy it.

Now, that is pretty interesting, although I find that it telling that talking about Britney is far more interesting (to me) than actually listening to her.

I think Britney probably is symbolic of the trend you describe, but I don't know if I would apply it to her whole generation. I teach her generation here in Lafayette LA and I honestly don't see that particular problem. Of course we do have a pretty overwhelming (in a good way) local culture and that may not be true everywhere.

rob

[AlistairCrane]

Huh. I don't think I'd ever compare "Toxic" to Portishead. For one thing, its tempo is set somewhere above narcotic. [/snark]

I tend to agree that Britney as a vocalist is pretty personality-free, but that's not a deal-breaker for me, so long as the specific song moves in interesting ways. And there's another point nagging in the back of my mind, something Greil-Marcusian about how Britney's lack of personality is a symbol for her entire generation's inability to find modes of being that aren't mediated by mass culture, but I'll have to chew on it and see if there's anything there. I find her interesting more than admirable, but I don't need to admire something to enjoy it.

Britney doesn't lack a personality. It's actually her personality, coupled with her music, that draws me to her as a fan.

[Michael P]

Britney doesn't lack a personality. It's actually her personality, coupled with her music, that draws me to her as a fan.

So what is it about "skank" that so captivates you?

[leonaozaki]

So what is it about "skank" that so captivates you?

Watch it, he'll flip the "ignore" switch!

Oh, and your avatar is all kinds of awesome.

rob

[mattx110]

So what is it about "skank" that so captivates you?
Is this a trick question?


Any time someone says "that musician has no personality" or "that's generic music", they're wrong. There's no such thing.

[TDroon]

So what is it about "skank" that so captivates you?

Aww look, the little spazz dorkoid misogynist popped his head out of his shit filled cave again.

Everybody remember to stand downwind.

Not that I'm going to waste my time looking through all of your posts, but I can pretty much guarantee that if I did I'd find that in at least one of them you have referred to Britney as a whore/slut/dirtbag/(insert derogatory misogynistic phrase or word here.)

It is a natural thing for you, seeing as you've never even held a girls hand, let alone kissed one.

If Britney is as you screech a skank, then what exactly does that make Amy Winehouse?

You can't call both Britney and Winehouse skanks because Britney doesn't have to wear adult diapers because she is constantly shitting and pissing her pants like Winehouse. And Britney doesn't smear the walls of her hotel rooms/ house with her own shit and menstrual blood like Winehouse and Britney unlike Winehouse bathes on a regular basis.

So tell us genius, if Britney is as you proclaim, a skank, then what is Winehouse?

[Michael P]

So tell us genius, if Britney is as you proclaim, a skank, then what is Winehouse?

A young woman hopelessly lost in the horrors of drug addiction and in desperate need of treatment.

This is a fun game. Who's next?

[mattx110]

A young woman hopelessly lost in the horrors of drug addiction and in desperate need of treatment.

And Britney, isn't?

[Michael P]

And Britney, isn't?

I've seen no indications that drugs play a significant role in her personality, either the manufactured one(s) put out by her record company or the one available to those with the fortitude to peek behind the curtain.

[howyadoin]

Aww look, the little spazz dorkoid misogynist popped his head out of his shit filled cave again.

Everybody remember to stand downwind.

Not that I'm going to waste my time looking through all of your posts, but I can pretty much guarantee that if I did I'd find that in at least one of them you have referred to Britney as a whore/slut/dirtbag/(insert derogatory misogynistic phrase or word here.)

It is a natural thing for you, seeing as you've never even held a girls hand, let alone kissed one.

If Britney is as you screech a skank, then what exactly does that make Amy Winehouse?

You can't call both Britney and Winehouse skanks because Britney doesn't have to wear adult diapers because she is constantly shitting and pissing her pants like Winehouse. And Britney doesn't smear the walls of her hotel rooms/ house with her own shit and menstrual blood like Winehouse and Britney unlike Winehouse bathes on a regular basis.

So tell us genius, if Britney is as you proclaim, a skank, then what is Winehouse?Yikes. Somebody's panties are in a bunch.

[leonaozaki]

I've seen no indications that drugs play a significant role in her personality, either the manufactured one(s) put out by her record company or the one available to those with the fortitude to peek behind the curtain.

From what I understand that's right. She seems to be a small-town Louisiana woman who's been manipulated by her mother since a very young age and the pressures of that plus stardom have driven her round the bend.

Drugs don't seem to be a part of it.

rob

[Spike-X]

Aww look, the little spazz dorkoid misogynist popped his head out of his shit filled cave again.

Umm...do we know you?

So tell us genius, if Britney is as you proclaim, a skank, then what is Winehouse?

Talented?

[AlistairCrane]

Umm...do we know you?



Talented?

Winehouse is a sad, pathetic, drug addict who's living on death's door. I pity her.

[AlistairCrane]

And Britney, isn't?

Nope, she's not. Britney's father controls her estate. He's cleaned her up.

Wino, on the otherhand...

[leonaozaki]

Winehouse has the advantage of making one record --Back to Black-- that I actually like a lot. Can't say that for Britney.

rob

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Aww look, the little spazz dorkoid misogynist popped his head out of his shit filled cave again.

Everybody remember to stand downwind.


Dude ...were all on a comic book message forum. If were all not huge dorky , nerdy guys then what are we ? I mean hell...I wish I was the coolest dude on Earth but I'm not. Neither are you ...

Not that I'm going to waste my time looking through all of your posts, but I can pretty much guarantee that if I did I'd find that in at least one of them you have referred to Britney as a whore/slut/dirtbag/(insert derogatory misogynistic phrase or word here.)

A lot of our posts basically is ...she's pretty much on a career slide. Her talent was never big..she looked hot at one time but sadly ...partying and not giving a fuck hurt her.

It is a natural thing for you, seeing as you've never even held a girls hand, let alone kissed one.

Is this where you brag up all your conquests to us poor nerdy , dorky people who dare question Britney ?

If Britney is as you screech a skank, then what exactly does that make Amy Winehouse?

Drug addled fool is my thinking.

You can't call both Britney and Winehouse skanks because Britney doesn't have to wear adult diapers because she is constantly shitting and pissing her pants like Winehouse. And Britney doesn't smear the walls of her hotel rooms/ house with her own shit and menstrual blood like Winehouse and Britney unlike Winehouse bathes on a regular basis.

Not much caring really . Do you really care if Britney is or isn't shitting her pants ? And smearing the walls with it ? Whats this gotta do with both womens careers hitting the downward spiral ?

So tell us genius, if Britney is as you proclaim, a skank, then what is Winehouse?

A young woman hopelessly lost in the horrors of drug addiction and in desperate need of treatment.

This is a fun game. Who's next?

Yes pretty much what Michael posted. Of course how many times have you watched Intervention and saw the same pattern where the addict has to hit ROCK BOTTOM and even then yells "I don't have a problem ! You all have a problem !"

And Britney, isn't?

Hmmm has it been reported as much as Winehouse that Britney is on drugs ? I know they've reported her hard partying at clubs and drinking...

Yikes. Somebody's panties are in a bunch.

Britney must be defended !!

From what I understand that's right. She seems to be a small-town Louisiana woman who's been manipulated by her mother since a very young age and the pressures of that plus stardom have driven her round the bend.

Drugs don't seem to be a part of it.

rob

Britney's parents should never write a book about raising kids. Because one kid can't mentally take care of her own children and the other was 16 or 17 and had a kid. Its like they cared about the paychecks their children cashed but as far as being there... fuck no.

Nope, she's not. Britney's father controls her estate. He's cleaned her up.

Wino, on the otherhand...

Ha ha.... ohh yeah. He's as bad as the mother . Both wanna make sure the golden goose doesn't spend all her mother so quick.

[Buried Alien]

This one is getting us nowhere fast.

Au Revoir.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Moderator Alive!)