(Naruto) Kakashi Hatake, A bad mentor, or what?!

[jasminegreen]

{This May Contain SPOILERS If You're Not Current With the Manga or are not a Manga Reader } Is it me or does Kakashi seem like a relly crappy teacher? He seemed to, obviously favore Sasuke over his other students. He only trains Sasuke and brags on him constantly. Anytime you looked, he was always kissing Sasuke's butt. He never payed ant attention to Sakura and, he constantly put down Naruto, called him stupid and wouldn't teach him anything. I think he wanted to make sure that Naruto would never be able to measure up to, or rival, Sasuke, his prized pupil. What do you think?

[master of read]

Is it me or does Kakashi seem like a relly crappy teacher? He seemed to, obviously favore Sasuke over his other students. He only trains Sasuke and brags on him constantly. Anytime you looked, he was always kissing Sasuke's butt. He never payed ant attention to Sakura and, he constantly put down Naruto, called him stupid and wouldn't teach him anything. I think he wanted to make sure that Naruto would never be able to measure up to, or rival, Sasuke, his prized pupil. What do you think?

you are not alone in that thinking, my dear. you've come to the right place.:biggrin:

[Ghost]

Is it me or does Kakashi seem like a relly crappy teacher? He seemed to, obviously favore Sasuke over his other students. He only trains Sasuke and brags on him constantly. Anytime you looked, he was always kissing Sasuke's butt. He never payed ant attention to Sakura and, he constantly put down Naruto, called him stupid and wouldn't teach him anything. I think he wanted to make sure that Naruto would never be able to measure up to, or rival, Sasuke, his prized pupil. What do you think?

First of all, welcome onboard.

And what do I think? I think you're clearly not much of a fan of Sasuke, and that while you may have a certain point, you also exaggerate somewhat.

Kakashi was actually kinda hard on all three of them in the beginning. And, let's be totally fair here, Naruto was a bit immature back then. Later, when he started giving Sasuke some serious training, Naruto was being trained by Jiraiya which was probably the best arrangement anyway in regards to their individual talents and personalities.

I also disagree that Kakashi was constantly putting Naruto down. Especially post-time skip, he seemed to have a very high regard for Naruto's abilities, even going as far as calling him his equal. He was also the one leading Naruto's elemental training and constantly stressed Naruto's good qualities.

Furthermore, keep in mind that pre-time skip, Kakashi was pretty much the ideal trainer for Sasuke, since he had Sharingan and a similar status as a prodigy. That's not ground for accusing him for favouritism, though: you might just as well say that Kakashi realised that Sasuke was potentially extremely dangerous and wanted to keep an eye on him and guide his training as much as he could. (Especially when learning that Orochimaru was interested in him.)

I agree Sakura got totally ignored throughout all this, though.

you are not alone in that thinking, my dear. you've come to the right place.:biggrin:

Yeah, because we're all for people who are against Sasuke, aren't we? :rolleyes:

You do realise that if the tone of Jasmigreen's post had been pro-Sasuke as opposed to anti-Sasuke, she (?) would probably have been verbally crucified by now.

See, this is exacty the kind of double standard I don't like when it comes to discussing anything that has to do with Sasuke. Is a bit of objectiveness really too much to ask?

[Guy1]

Is it me or does Kakashi seem like a relly crappy teacher? He seemed to, obviously favore Sasuke over his other students. He only trains Sasuke and brags on him constantly. Anytime you looked, he was always kissing Sasuke's butt. He never payed ant attention to Sakura and, he constantly put down Naruto, called him stupid and wouldn't teach him anything. I think he wanted to make sure that Naruto would never be able to measure up to, or rival, Sasuke, his prized pupil. What do you think?

Aside from tree climbing, what exactly did Kakashi ever bother teaching Naruto and Sakura?

[jasminegreen]

First of all, welcome onboard.

And what do I think? I think you're clearly not much of a fan of Sasuke, and that while you may have a certain point, you also exaggerate somewhat.

Kakashi was actually kinda hard on all three of them in the beginning. And, let's be totally fair here, Naruto was a bit immature back then. Later, when he started giving Sasuke some serious training, Naruto was being trained by Jiraiya which was probably the best arrangement anyway in regards to their individual talents and personalities.

I also disagree that Kakashi was constantly putting Naruto down. Especially post-time skip, he seemed to have a very high regard for Naruto's abilities, even going as far as calling him his equal. He was also the one leading Naruto's elemental training and constantly stressed Naruto's good qualities.

Furthermore, keep in mind that pre-time skip, Kakashi was pretty much the ideal trainer for Sasuke, since he had Sharingan and a similar status as a prodigy. That's not ground for accusing him for favouritism, though: you might just as well say that Kakashi realised that Sasuke was potentially extremely dangerous and wanted to keep an eye on him and guide his training as much as he could. (Especially when learning that Orochimaru was interested in him.)

I agree Sakura got totally ignored throughout all this, though.



Yeah, because we're all for people who are against Sasuke, aren't we? :rolleyes:

You do realise that if the tone of Jasmigreen's post had been pro-Sasuke as opposed to anti-Sasuke, she (?) would probably have been verbally crucified by now.

See, this is exacty the kind of double standard I don't like when it comes to discussing anything that has to do with Sasuke. Is a bit of objectiveness really too much to ask?

He always called Naruto stupid, called him a weirdo and rolled his eyes at him. The only training we see Kakashi give Naruto is tree climbing, and he didn't even teach that. He demonstrated the tree walking and told them to get started. Sakura was the one that explained about chakra and helped Naruto. Kakashi just watched and comented that he expected Naruto to fail.

[Ghost]

He always called Naruto stupid, called him a weirdo and rolled his eyes at him.

Yeah, see, if you want to convince me of your opinion, you'd best offer proof in the form of scans or chapter/page numbers. Surely you don't expect me to take your word for it?

And Kakashi does compliment Naruto. Take this, for example:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/17/Naruto2-10-08/

I didn't even look for that. I found it at random.

The only training we see Kakashi give Naruto is tree climbing, and he didn't even teach that. He demonstrated the tree walking and told them to get started. Sakura was the one that explained about chakra and helped Naruto. Kakashi just watched and comented that he expected Naruto to fail.

Incorrect. First he had Sakura handle half the explanation about chakra, and then he handled the other half which detailed what Naruto and Sasuke was doing wrong.

Then he demonstrated the tree climbing, which even Sakura was completely clueless to.

Anyway, he didn't exactly point at Sasuke and go: "Naruto, you are trash next to the shining moon that is the Uchiha scion!" Because, you know, Sasuke sucked at chakra control as well.

As a matter of fact, Kakashi was all: "I guess the Uchiha clan isn't worth much either." (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/18/Naruto18-11/)

Oh, and look at this! (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/18/Naruto18-19/) Kakashi contemplating how awesome Naruto's potential is.

What was that about him "expecting Naruto to fail," again?

[jasminegreen]

Yeah, see, if you want to convince me of your opinion, you'd best offer proof in the form of scans or chapter/page numbers. Surely you don't expect me to take your word for it?

And Kakashi does compliment Naruto. Take this, for example:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/17/Naruto2-10-08/

I didn't even look for that. I found it at random.



Incorrect. First he had Sakura handle half the explanation about chakra, and then he handled the other half which detailed what Naruto and Sasuke was doing wrong.

Then he demonstrated the tree climbing, which even Sakura was completely clueless to.

Anyway, he didn't exactly point at Sasuke and go: "Naruto, you are trash next to the shining moon that is the Uchiha scion!" Because, you know, Sasuke sucked at chakra control as well.

As a matter of fact, Kakashi was all: "I guess the Uchiha clan isn't worth much either." (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/18/Naruto18-11/)

Oh, and look at this! (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/18/Naruto18-19/) Kakashi contemplating how awesome Naruto's potential is.

What was that about him "expecting Naruto to fail," again? I never got the hang of how to do scans. But, I can give examples. Kakashi calling Naruto a "Nuckelhead ninja", nuckelhead is basically another word for a stupid person. He expected him to fail, well, during the tree walking when Naruto tries to run up the tree and he falls right back down, Kakashi says "That's what I expected from Naruto." And, he teaches Sasuke Chidori, but scolds Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan.

[Miburohunter929]

I gotta agree with Ghost.

Keep in mind Kakashi didnt exactly have much time to teach them either.

He taught them on the spot in the land of the waves, and he was injured, and then he was dealing with Zabuza.

Then the Chunnin Exams started, and when the finals came about he paired up with Sasuke.

He /atleast/ had the curtesy to get Naruto a teacher to teach him the basics, which is what he failed most at, and the guy was a better teacher then he was, and Sasuke was the easiest to teach to Kakashi.

Naruto would have taken to long to train effectively /With/ Sasuke. I can't see him giving Naruto the time he deserves, while he's teaching Sasuke all that shit, or vice-versa.

I think he made the right choice.

Anyways, he didnt bother with Sakura, because she wasnt competeing in the finals, and their wasn't a sense of urgency.

Then the leaf gets invaded, and Kakashi get's put into a coma a few days later, along with Sasuke.

He gets out of the Coma at some point, and IIRC, Jiraya pretty much tells him to let him deal with Naruto, and Kakashi can focus on Sasuke.

Then a few days later, Sasuke leaves Konoha, and Naruto and Jiraya go off on a retreat.

I'm just saying, I dont remember their being ample time in the story, and he always left Naruto and Sakura up the shitter.

Sure, he did, but it was more or less a one time event, and shit moved to fast for him to ever get back to them, or they found their own teachers.

Now, He's more then made up to Naruto post-timeskip, what with coming up with a brand new method of training only he can do (And the bottom line is /Kakashi/ came up with it. It never occured to Jiraya or anyone else, it was his idea) and ended up helping him make an S-rank Jutsu, and teaching him the wonders of Kage Bunshin haxx.

I wouldnt call Kakashi a crap mentor to anyone except Sakura, and she wasn't competing in the finals, so it wasn't as urgent, and when he did get some time, she got Tsunade as a teacher, so it's more or less even.

Admittedly, it was obvious he liked Sasuke best, but it's not like he went to train Sasuke and left Naruto to his own devices.

I mean, he had Ebisu waiting in the wings way before Naruto even asked him.

And besides, I'll wager that the way things are going now, he's a better mentor then Jiraya, seeing as how Naruto only ended up with slightly better basics, and a bigger Rasengan during two and a half years.

Hell, he didnt show any willful control over Kyubbi, and Jiraya didnt tell him about four-tailed mode, he knew /nothing/ about elemental or Yin/Yang chakra, or even Senninjutsu.

[jasminegreen]

I gotta agree with Ghost.

Keep in mind Kakashi didnt exactly have much time to teach them either.

He taught them on the spot in the land of the waves, and he was injured, and then he was dealing with Zabuza.

Then the Chunnin Exams started, and when the finals came about he paired up with Sasuke.

He /atleast/ had the curtesy to get Naruto a teacher to teach him the basics, which is what he failed most at, and the guy was a better teacher then he was, and Sasuke was the easiest to teach to Kakashi.

Naruto would have taken to long to train effectively /With/ Sasuke. I can't see him giving Naruto the time he deserves, while he's teaching Sasuke all that shit, or vice-versa.

I think he made the right choice.

Anyways, he didnt bother with Sakura, because she wasnt competeing in the finals, and their wasn't a sense of urgency.

Then the leaf gets invaded, and Kakashi get's put into a coma a few days later, along with Sasuke.

He gets out of the Coma at some point, and IIRC, Jiraya pretty much tells him to let him deal with Naruto, and Kakashi can focus on Sasuke.

Then a few days later, Sasuke leaves Konoha, and Naruto and Jiraya go off on a retreat.

I'm just saying, I dont remember their being ample time in the story, and he always left Naruto and Sakura up the shitter.

Sure, he did, but it was more or less a one time event, and shit moved to fast for him to ever get back to them, or they found their own teachers.

Now, He's more then made up to Naruto post-timeskip, what with coming up with a brand new method of training only he can do (And the bottom line is /Kakashi/ came up with it. It never occured to Jiraya or anyone else, it was his idea) and ended up helping him make an S-rank Jutsu, and teaching him the wonders of Kage Bunshin haxx.
I wouldnt call Kakashi a crap mentor to anyone except Sakura, and she wasn't competing in the finals, so it wasn't as urgent, and when he did get some time, she got Tsunade as a teacher, so it's more or less even.

Admittedly, it was obvious he liked Sasuke best, but it's not like he went to train Sasuke and left Naruto to his own devices.

I mean, he had Ebisu waiting in the wings way before Naruto even asked him.

And besides, I'll wager that the way things are going now, he's a better mentor then Jiraya, seeing as how Naruto only ended up with slightly better basics, and a bigger Rasengan during two and a half years.

Hell, he didnt show any willful control over Kyubbi, and Jiraya didnt tell him about four-tailed mode, he knew /nothing/ about elemental or Yin/Yang chakra, or even Senninjutsu.
Kakashi wouldn't have been able to do that if Jiraiya didn't teach him Rasengan in the first place, and Kakashi didn't even want Naruto to llearn that.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I never got the hang of how to do scans. But, I can give examples. Kakashi calling Naruto a "Nuckelhead ninja", nuckelhead is basically another word for a stupid person. He expected him to fail, well, during the tree walking when Naruto tries to run up the tree and he falls right back down, Kakashi says "That's what I expected from Naruto." And, he teaches Sasuke Chidori, but scolds Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan.He calls him knuckledhead ninja with a voice of affection. It's a good way to describe Naruto and Kakashi doesn't mean anything bad with it. Hell, the way he says it is a compliment.

Of course he expected Naruto to fail on the first try at the tree-climbing. Naruto's chakra control at that point was kind of sucky. He's frank about Naruto's abilities but he doesn't look down on the kid. And he keeps his thoughts to himself. It would be bad if he pointed at Naruto and told him that he expected him to fail. But he doesn't do that. Instead he observes and lets Naruto develop at his own pace. And then he compliments his potential.

I will admit that it was hypocritical to tell Jiraiya off about the rasengan. But he agrees with that after Jiraiya points that out to him. He was worried about Naruto being able to handle it. Is that a crime?Kakashi wouldn't have been able to do that if Jiraiya didn't teach him Rasengan in the first place, and Kakashi didn't even want Naruto to llearn that.The rasengan? Kakashi never mentioned anything about Naruto learning it or his opinions on it.

And I think that it's safe to say that he would've eventually taught Naruto about it. He just didn't think he was ready for it yet. Now he knows not to underestimate Naruto and has pushed him to a level he himself cannot reach.

[Miburohunter929]

Kakashi wouldn't have been able to do that if Jiraiya didn't teach him Rasengan in the first place, and Kakashi didn't even want Naruto to llearn that.

Well, Kakashi knows Rasengan also, so it's not compeltely impossible that he couldnt have, but I see your point.

Jiraya was an awesome teacher pre-timeskip, and did wonders for naruto in both periods.

No doubt.

Although...I dont recall Kakashi objecting to Naruto learning the technique.

I recall him and Jiraya giving each other the "Dude, why'd you teach him /that" speech, after Naruto and Sasuke tried to kill each other, but that's understandable.

And I'll have to look for the scan, but I thought Jiraya was the one giving Kakashi all kinds of shit over his students actions and such.

And it's not like he tried to stop naruto from using it, or forbid him from such a thing.

[master of read]

He calls him knuckledhead ninja with a voice of affection. It's a good way to describe Naruto and Kakashi doesn't mean anything bad with it. Hell, the way he says it is a compliment.

Of course he expected Naruto to fail on the first try at the tree-climbing. Naruto's chakra control at that point was kind of sucky. He's frank about Naruto's abilities but he doesn't look down on the kid. And he keeps his thoughts to himself. It would be bad if he pointed at Naruto and told him that he expected him to fail. But he doesn't do that. Instead he observes and lets Naruto develop at his own pace. And then he compliments his potential.

I will admit that it was hypocritical to tell Jiraiya off about the rasengan. But he agrees with that after Jiraiya points that out to him. He was worried about Naruto being able to handle it. Is that a crime?The rasengan? Kakashi never mentioned anything about Naruto learning it or his opinions on it.

And I think that it's safe to say that he would've eventually taught Naruto about it. He just didn't think he was ready for it yet. Now he knows not to underestimate Naruto and has pushed him to a level he himself cannot reach.


kinda my thinking as well. true, kakashi kinda messed up as a teacher for naruto and sakura but he does respect naruto. i mean, he did say that naruto was the only one he thought could surpass his sensei, who just happens to be naruto's old man.

[master of read]

Well, Kakashi knows Rasengan also, so it's not compeltely impossible that he couldnt have, but I see your point.

Jiraya was an awesome teacher pre-timeskip, and did wonders for naruto in both periods.

No doubt.

Although...I dont recall Kakashi objecting to Naruto learning the technique.

I recall him and Jiraya giving each other the "Dude, why'd you teach him /that" speech, after Naruto and Sasuke tried to kill each other, but that's understandable.

And I'll have to look for the scan, but I thought Jiraya was the one giving Kakashi all kinds of shit over his students actions and such.

And it's not like he tried to stop naruto from using it, or forbid him from such a thing.

from my understanding, kakashi rasengan wasnt stable since his chakra type didnt mix well with it.

[Miburohunter929]

from my understanding, kakashi rasengan wasnt stable since his chakra type didnt mix well with it.

Eh?

I think you're thinking of why he couldnt do /elemental/ rasengan.

He did the Rasengan just fine, but said he, like Yondaime, couldnt infuse it with elemental chakra, which is part of the reason he made Chidori.

Or something.

[jasminegreen]

Well, Kakashi knows Rasengan also, so it's not compeltely impossible that he couldnt have, but I see your point.

Jiraya was an awesome teacher pre-timeskip, and did wonders for naruto in both periods.

No doubt.

Although...I dont recall Kakashi objecting to Naruto learning the technique.

I recall him and Jiraya giving each other the "Dude, why'd you teach him /that" speech, after Naruto and Sasuke tried to kill each other, but that's understandable.

And I'll have to look for the scan, but I thought Jiraya was the one giving Kakashi all kinds of shit over his students actions and such.

And it's not like he tried to stop naruto from using it, or forbid him from such a thing.
Kakashi was the first to point fingers. Jiraiya didn't know why Sasuke was taught Chidori, so for all Jiraiya knew, Kakashi could've been teaching Sasuke because he cared more for him, like Sandaime did with orochimaru. Kakashi knew full well why Jiraiya was training Naruto and he still thought Naruto had no claim to learn Rasengan. And, Naruto had more of a right to learn Rasengan, since it was his father's jutsu and i'm sure Minato would want Naruto to know it. Kakashi tells Jiraiya that Naruto shouldn't have been taught that jutsu, even if it was for use against the Akatsuki.

[Miburohunter929]

Kakashi was the first to point fingers. Jiraiya didn't know why Sasuke was taught Chidori, so for all Jiraiya knew, Kakashi could've been teaching Sasuke because he cared more for him, like Sandaime did with orochimaru. Kakashi knew full well why Jiraiya was training Naruto and he still thought Naruto had no claim to learn Rasengan. And, Naruto had more of a right to learn Rasengan, since it was his father's jutsu and i'm sure Minato would want Naruto to know it. Kakashi tells Jiraiya that Naruto shouldn't have been taught that jutsu, even if it was for use against the Akatsuki.

Well, I can't say I completely blame him, since IIRC, Naruto was the one who esculated the fight when he brought out Rasengan, which Prompted Sasuke to use Chidori in return.

Although, I remember Sasuke setting him on fire before that, and Naruto gang jumping him before that....

So, everyone sucks!

And I dont think Kakashi meant never, ever, ever teach Naruto the Jutsu, he just didnt like the idea of him knowing it at the time, taking into account his personality.

Although, it's possible he could have just been hating I suppose.

In anycase, Ninjas do that all the time. Kakashi gave Gai shit about Lee, and Gai did the same regarding Sasuke, albeit mockingly.

All Ninja are backseat drivers.

[master of read]

Eh?

I think you're thinking of why he couldnt do /elemental/ rasengan.

He did the Rasengan just fine, but said he, like Yondaime, couldnt infuse it with elemental chakra, which is part of the reason he made Chidori.

Or something.

minato didnt mix it with his elemental chakra cause of, you know, him dying. kakashi's rasengan just didnt look as stable as naruto's or jiraiya's.

[master of read]

Well, I can't say I completely blame him, since IIRC, Naruto was the one who esculated the fight when he brought out Rasengan, which Prompted Sasuke to use Chidori in return.

Although, I remember Sasuke setting him on fire before that, and Naruto gang jumping him before that....

So, everyone sucks!

And I dont think Kakashi meant never, ever, ever teach Naruto the Jutsu, he just didnt like the idea of him knowing it at the time, taking into account his personality.

Although, it's possible he could have just been hating I suppose.

In anycase, Ninjas do that all the time. Kakashi gave Gai shit about Lee, and Gai did the same regarding Sasuke, albeit mockingly.

All Ninja are backseat drivers.

asuma wasnt much of a teacher as well. most, if not all the jutsu his team knows are clan jutsu. aside from him finding out about shikamaru's a super genius, he didnt do anything in way of teaching.

[jasminegreen]

Well, I can't say I completely blame him, since IIRC, Naruto was the one who esculated the fight when he brought out Rasengan, which Prompted Sasuke to use Chidori in return.

Although, I remember Sasuke setting him on fire before that, and Naruto gang jumping him before that....

So, everyone sucks!

And I dont think Kakashi meant never, ever, ever teach Naruto the Jutsu, he just didnt like the idea of him knowing it at the time, taking into account his personality.

Although, it's possible he could have just been hating I suppose.

In anycase, Ninjas do that all the time. Kakashi gave Gai shit about Lee, and Gai did the same regarding Sasuke, albeit mockingly.

All Ninja are backseat drivers.

Sasuke was the one that suggested the fight in the first place. Sasuke is a kid that has detecated his whole life to power and vengence. Why would Kakashi teach a kid like that an assassination jutsu, Sasuke was bound to use it for his own purposes later. So, Sasuke, sure as heck, couldn't have been trusted due to his personality. Put Kakashi was so quick to point at Jiraiya. That's a problem with Kakashi, he thinks he knows everything and criticizes others when he has no right to. When Naruto was under his care, he didn't train, know or care anything about Naruto. He doesn't understand Naruto or what he goes through, so where does he get off trying to tell Jiraiya anything about Naruto, when Jiraiya trained and spent more time with naruto than he ever did?

[Dark Soul # 7]

Sasuke was the one that suggested the fight in the first place. Sasuke is a kid that has detecated his whole life to power and vengence. Why would Kakashi teach a kid like that an assassination jutsu, Sasuke was bound to use it for his own purposes later. So, Sasuke, sure as heck, couldn't have been trusted due to his personality. Put Kakashi was so quick to point at Jiraiya. That's a problem with Kakashi, he thinks he knows everything and criticizes others when he has no right to. When Naruto was under his care, he didn't train, know or care anything about Naruto. He doesn't understand Naruto or what he goes through, so where does he get off trying to tell Jiraiya anything about Naruto, when Jiraiya trained and spent more time with naruto than he ever did?Now you're just being a Kakashi-hater.

What do you mean he didn't know or care about Naruto? He's risked his life to save the kid and even called him his comrade.

As for why he focused on Sasuke a lot. One of the reasons could be that he understands Sasuke's pain more than he does Naruto's since they, Kakashi and Sasuke, have gone through the pain of losing loved ones. With Sasuke having the sharingan and the same elemental affinity as him it's only natural that goes to teach him even more.

Bottom line is that Kakashi isn't that good of a teacher in the way that he seems to only be able to focus on person at the time. That's ok since he's human. He makes mistakes. He happened to understand Sasuke more and could see himself in him, he also saw that sasuke needed his guidance more than Naruto.

[master of read]

Sasuke was the one that suggested the fight in the first place. Sasuke is a kid that has detecated his whole life to power and vengence. Why would Kakashi teach a kid like that an assassination jutsu, Sasuke was bound to use it for his own purposes later. So, Sasuke, sure as heck, couldn't have been trusted due to his personality. Put Kakashi was so quick to point at Jiraiya. That's a problem with Kakashi, he thinks he knows everything and criticizes others when he has no right to. When Naruto was under his care, he didn't train, know or care anything about Naruto. He doesn't understand Naruto or what he goes through, so where does he get off trying to tell Jiraiya anything about Naruto, when Jiraiya trained and spent more time with naruto than he ever did?

well kakashi saw a little of himself in sasuke and hoped that he wouldnt turn into jerkface. and that would've happened if oro hadnt gotten to him and given him the curse mark.

[Nik Hasta]

With regards to this:

He expected him to fail, well, during the tree walking when Naruto tries to run up the tree and he falls right back down, Kakashi says "That's what I expected from Naruto."

Yeah he expected Naruto to do that because Naruto at that point was very impulsive and didn't tend to think things through.

It's not a put down, it's just a fact.

Kakashi wasn't an awesome teacher, but he wasn't bad. He didn't have a negative effect on any of his students' development apart from Sakura who he seemed to ignore.

[jasminegreen]

Now you're just being a Kakashi-hater.

What do you mean he didn't know or care about Naruto? He's risked his life to save the kid and even called him his comrade.

As for why he focused on Sasuke a lot. One of the reasons could be that he understands Sasuke's pain more than he does Naruto's since they, Kakashi and Sasuke, have gone through the pain of losing loved ones. With Sasuke having the sharingan and the same elemental affinity as him it's only natural that goes to teach him even more.

Bottom line is that Kakashi isn't that good of a teacher in the way that he seems to only be able to focus on person at the time. That's ok since he's human. He makes mistakes. He happened to understand Sasuke more and could see himself in him, he also saw that sasuke needed his guidance more than Naruto.

I don't hate Kakashi, I know that's hard to believe. He's actually my favorite character, I just think, as a teacher, he sucked, and was a hypocrite. If he doesn't understand Naruto, why doesn't he but out and let Jiraiya train Naruto however the heck he wants. Like Kakashi is always saying Naruto is reckless and over does things. Naruto is just putting 100% into what he does because he has to work trice as hard to get the same amount of care and respect that Sasuke automatically gets from everybody. I feel bad for Naruto getting stuck on Team 7, because everyone on that team did nothing but give him greif.

[Miburohunter929]

Sasuke was the one that suggested the fight in the first place. Sasuke is a kid that has detecated his whole life to power and vengence. Why would Kakashi teach a kid like that an assassination jutsu, Sasuke was bound to use it for his own purposes later. So, Sasuke, sure as heck, couldn't have been trusted due to his personality. Put Kakashi was so quick to point at Jiraiya. That's a problem with Kakashi, he thinks he knows everything and criticizes others when he has no right to. When Naruto was under his care, he didn't train, know or care anything about Naruto. He doesn't understand Naruto or what he goes through, so where does he get off trying to tell Jiraiya anything about Naruto, when Jiraiya trained and spent more time with naruto than he ever did?

Well, I do agree Kakashi's to eager to quarterback, he does have a point (See: Rock Lee) although he tends to look slightly hypocritical in retrospect.

Also note Sasuke didnt really start shit until his rematch/rape via itachi, at which point he went batshit, and the Sound Four talked him to the darkside.

He was actually starting to like his comrades at that point, remember? And when him and Naruto almost impaled Sakura, it's not like he was like "lololololdiebitch".

Compare Sasuke risking his life for Naruto in the land of waves with his threatening to murder all of Kakashi's special people after getting owned, and you can see the diffrence.

He was existing just fine until Itachi came back into the picture, and Oro baited him.

And saying "Why would Kakashi teach Sasuke Chidori" is just like asking why Jiraya would teach Naruto Rasengan.

Both had their reasons, and at the time, Sasuke wasn't completely insane, and wouldnt run around chidori'ing his buds.

And not to mention, the whole thing about Gaara.

Honestly, pre-Itachi rape, I'd wager Sasuke would be more responsible with Chidori, then Naruto with Rasengan, but that's just me.

Also, part of the reason he taught him that was to help him protect people special to him, not to run around killing them.

He gave Sasuke a speech on it, IIRC, when he started going crazy, and before then, he hoped he could get Sasuke off this revenge thing, judging from the whole "Sasuke, Bro, dont Taze Itachi" Speech he gave.

[jasminegreen]

Well, I do agree Kakashi's to eager to quarterback, he does have a point (See: Rock Lee) although he tends to look slightly hypocritical in retrospect.

Also note Sasuke didnt really start shit until his rematch/rape via itachi, at which point he went batshit, and the Sound Four talked him to the darkside.

He was actually starting to like his comrades at that point, remember? And when him and Naruto almost impaled Sakura, it's not like he was like "lololololdiebitch".

Compare Sasuke risking his life for Naruto in the land of waves with his threatening to murder all of Kakashi's special people after getting owned, and you can see the diffrence.

He was existing just fine until Itachi came back into the picture, and Oro baited him.

And saying "Why would Kakashi teach Sasuke Chidori" is just like asking why Jiraya would teach Naruto Rasengan.

Both had their reasons, and at the time, Sasuke wasn't completely insane, and wouldnt run around chidori'ing his buds.

And not to mention, the whole thing about Gaara.

Honestly, pre-Itachi rape, I'd wager Sasuke would be more responsible with Chidori, then Naruto with Rasengan, but that's just me.

Also, part of the reason he taught him that was to help him protect people special to him, not to run around killing them.

He gave Sasuke a speech on it, IIRC, when he started going crazy, and before then, he hoped he could get Sasuke off this revenge thing, judging from the whole "Sasuke, Bro, dont Taze Itachi" Speech he gave.
Then Kakashi is a hyocrite. Didn't he tell guy that a sensei never bring personal feelings into play? If him teaching Sasuke Chidori wasn't somewhat personal, then I don't know what is. The thing is Kakashi feels he had a right to teach his student a jutsu, but he expects Jiraiya to not teach Naruto something big, since Akatsuki was after him? So, Kakashi cares about what happens to Sasuke, but, obviously, doesn't care if Naruto is captured and killed by an evil organization. And, in the end Naruto was more responsible, because in the VotE fight, when Naruto and Sasuke are getting ready for the final blow Naruto uses his Rasengan to scratch Sasuke's headband, but Sasuke sticks a Chidori through Naruto's stomach. And, Naruto was dying when Kakashi found him.

[Nik Hasta]

Then Kakashi is a hyocrite. Didn't he tell guy that a sensei never bring personal feelings into play? If him teaching Sasuke Chidori wasn't somewhat personal, then I don't know what is.

I don't follow.

Kakashi was Sasuke's teacher, he was supposed to teach him things. Sasuke had lightning element chakra, thus Kakashi taught him the best lightning jutsu he knew.

Not to mention Sasuke was about to fetch up against Gaara who was still working on the basis of: "I will kill... EVERYONE!!"

I see no reason why he wouldn't teach Sasuke Chidori.

[Miburohunter929]

I don't follow.

Kakashi was Sasuke's teacher, he was supposed to teach him things. Sasuke had lightning element chakra, thus Kakashi taught him the best lightning jutsu he knew.

Not to mention Sasuke was about to fetch up against Gaara who was still working on the basis of: "I will kill... EVERYONE!!"

I see no reason why he wouldn't teach Sasuke Chidori.

Not to mention the odds of him threatening to Kill a bunch of a persons special people just so they could feel his pain was pretty low at the time.

And I didnt really see Pre-Itachi Sasuke Chidori'ing Naruto in the heart.

Although, He Kakashi does tend to judge Gai and Jiraya, and at the same time teach his student dangerous Jutsu as well...

But every ninja does that, and every ninja get's bitched out. I guess it's what they do.

"Gai, dude, you taught him the fucking /Lotus/? WTF?"

"Eat a dick Kakashi."
_________________

"Kakashi, you taught him Chidori? What about all that Danger shit?"

"You're one to talk Gai, have a coke and shut the fuck up"

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jiraya, you taught Naruto Yondaimes swirly death Jutsu? Are you dense? Are you fucking retarded?"

"Shut the fuck up, I'm the God Damned Jiraya, and I'll teach whatever the fuck I want! If I want to teach him to piss toads out his /dick/ then god damnit, I fucking will. Sanin, motherfucker. I didnt get this title just so I could not teach dangerous jutsu when I wanted to. "

[Ghost]

But every ninja does that, and every ninja get's bitched out. I guess it's what they do.

"Gai, dude, you taught him the fucking /Lotus/? WTF?"

"Eat a dick Kakashi."
_________________

"Kakashi, you taught him Chidori? What about all that Danger shit?"

"You're one to talk Gai, have a coke and shut the fuck up"

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jiraya, you taught Naruto Yondaimes swirly death Jutsu? Are you dense? Are you fucking retarded?"

"Shut the fuck up, I'm the God Damned Jiraya, and I'll teach whatever the fuck I want! If I want to teach him to piss toads out his /dick/ then god damnit, I fucking will. Sanin, motherfucker. I didnt get this title just so I could not teach dangerous jutsu when I wanted to. "

http://muffinnation.com/mediabum/Lol_Gifs_7.gif

[jasminegreen]

Kakashi also did nothing but inflate Sasuke's ego. He gives Sasuke this extra praise, training, atention and a powerful jutsu and he doesn't tell Sasuke he gave him Chidori to protect until Sasuke was ready to leave, it was too late then. On the hospital rooftop, Kakashi tells Sasuke "You need to watch this sense of superiority you have." Is Sasuke not suipposed to feel superior when his sensei chose to train him over his rival, and teach him a new powerful just instead of teaching his rival something? That's another one of Kakashi's problems, he doesn't try to rectify a situation or problem until it's too late to do anything about it .

[arp2008]

Ha, ha. You guys make some good points but the man Kakashi is far too cool and bada$$ not to love and respect. :smile:

"Jiraya, you taught Naruto Yondaimes swirly death Jutsu? Are you dense? Are you fucking retarded?"

"Shut the fuck up, I'm the God Damned Jiraya, and I'll teach whatever the fuck I want! If I want to teach him to piss toads out his /dick/ then god damnit, I fucking will. Sanin, motherfucker. I didnt get this title just so I could not teach dangerous jutsu when I wanted to. " LMAO!!!!

[arp2008]

Guys, we can all agree that Kakashi calling Nartuto his equal is BS, no? The disparity between Naruto and Kakashi is painfully obviouse!

[nervmeister]

Better question. When will Naruto master all nine of his Kyuubi tails?

[master of read]

Better question. When will Naruto master all nine of his Kyuubi tails?

he;ll have to talk with killer bee about that.

[jasminegreen]

Please Stay On Topic.

[arp2008]

Better question. When will Naruto master all nine of his Kyuubi tails?
He loses control at 3 and becomes completely evenloped by he kyuubi chakra at four tails, so the answer to your question would be: no time soon.

Oh, and as jasminegreen has requested, lets stay on topic, guys!

[MJC]

Better question. When will Naruto master all nine of his Kyuubi tails?

That's probably what the "key" is for.

[Dr. Ghost]

OP, do you just watch the english version?

[jasminegreen]

OP, do you just watch the english version?

No. I've watch all versions, and iI read the manga. Which is how I noticed , also, that Kakashi treats Naruto like he treated Obito in the Gaiden, which is bad.

[Spidey-kid1]

Not to mention the odds of him threatening to Kill a bunch of a persons special people just so they could feel his pain was pretty low at the time.

And I didnt really see Pre-Itachi Sasuke Chidori'ing Naruto in the heart.

Although, He Kakashi does tend to judge Gai and Jiraya, and at the same time teach his student dangerous Jutsu as well...

But every ninja does that, and every ninja get's bitched out. I guess it's what they do.

"Gai, dude, you taught him the fucking /Lotus/? WTF?"

"Eat a dick Kakashi."
_________________

"Kakashi, you taught him Chidori? What about all that Danger shit?"

"You're one to talk Gai, have a coke and shut the fuck up"

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jiraya, you taught Naruto Yondaimes swirly death Jutsu? Are you dense? Are you fucking retarded?"

"Shut the fuck up, I'm the God Damned Jiraya, and I'll teach whatever the fuck I want! If I want to teach him to piss toads out his /dick/ then god damnit, I fucking will. Sanin, motherfucker. I didnt get this title just so I could not teach dangerous jutsu when I wanted to. ":biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[Fast]

Kakashi wasn't a bad teacher just had a bad teaching style for Naruto. Kakashi is like that Math physics teacher you had that put some problem on the board and told you to figure it out as he watches over your shoulder.

Now that I think about Jiraiya was the same way. He showed Naruto summon and rasengan then he went peeping and Naruto struggled for hours to perfect it. Thats what he did with the summoning jutsu (till he shoved him over the cliff, also not the safest way to teach someone) and the water walking was again Naruto practicing with Jiraiya watching girls. That's what I remember of it anyway, I might be wrong.

Also I thought teaching Sasuke the chidori was Kakashi trying to say "look at all the cool stuff we can teach you here in Konoha," and he wanted Sasuke to not die against Gaara.

What is kind of annoying to me is that if Naruto was the one who got trained by Kakashi during the Chunin exam, kakashi's 'favoritism' wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. For one on one training he was gonna have to shaft somenone and telling Sasuke to go find some other trainer was just going to send him walking into enemy hands (though as we in hindsight know nothing was going to stop that but at least he tried).

[jasminegreen]

Kakashi wasn't a bad teacher just had a bad teaching style for Naruto. Kakashi is like that Math physics teacher you had that put some problem on the board and told you to figure it out as he watches over your shoulder.

Now that I think about Jiraiya was the same way. He showed Naruto summon and rasengan then he went peeping and Naruto struggled for hours to perfect it. Thats what he did with the summoning jutsu (till he shoved him over the cliff, also not the safest way to teach someone) and the water walking was again Naruto practicing with Jiraiya watching girls. That's what I remember of it anyway, I might be wrong.

Also I thought teaching Sasuke the chidori was Kakashi trying to say "look at all the cool stuff we can teach you here in Konoha," and he wanted Sasuke to not die against Gaara.

What is kind of annoying to me is that if Naruto was the one who got trained by Kakashi during the Chunin exam, kakashi's 'favoritism' wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. For one on one training he was gonna have to shaft somenone and telling Sasuke to go find some other trainer was just going to send him walking into enemy hands (though as we in hindsight know nothing was going to stop that but at least he tried). Well, then Sandaime was foolish to place Naruto in Kakashi's group, since Kakashi 'couldn't' teach him anything. So, Naruto go the short end of the stick. Why would Sandaime put Naruto with a 'teacher' like Kakashi? Sandaime should've given Naruto to Gai, and let Neji get with Kakashi, since Kakashi only cares for geniuses with bad attitudes. And Gai loves a hard worker, which is what Naruto is, so Gai could appreciate that, where as Kakashi didn't.

[Fast]

Well, then Sandaime was foolish to place Naruto in Kakashi's group, since Kakashi 'couldn't' teach him anything. So, Naruto go the short end of the stick. Why would Sandaime put Naruto with a 'teacher' like Kakashi? Sandaime should've given Naruto to Gai, and let Neji get with Kakashi, since Kakashi only cares for geniuses with bad attitudes. And Gai loves a hard worker, which is what Naruto is, so Gai could appreciate that, where as Kakashi didn't.

I was under the impression that no one else wanted Naruto. Kakashi has always had high standards. His opening test failed every group before because they couldn't catch on fast enough to the teamwork thing.

Neji and sasuke couldnt be on a team. Neji graduated a year before the others and the teams were made to balance individual strenghts. Naruto and Sasuke were teammates becuz Naruto had the lowest scores and Sasuke the highest.

Kakashi can teach Naruto but most of the learning Naruto does is by himself anyway. For the rasengan Jiraiya gave Naruto a goal and Naruto (solo) kept practicing till he got it and then came for the next goal. Also, Naruto usually seemed to struggle learning until a deadline comes up, Chunin Exam coming up, Tsunade's week deadline.

[Nik Hasta]

Although, He Kakashi does tend to judge Gai and Jiraya, and at the same time teach his student dangerous Jutsu as well...

"Gai, dude, you taught him the fucking /Lotus/? WTF?"

"Eat a dick Kakashi."
_________________

I think the difference between the Lotus and Chidori is that the Lotus, while awesome can kill the user. The Chidori user can be as irresponsible as they like and they won't get hurt by the technique.

If you misuse the Lotus, open too many gates or whatever... yeah... you die.

That was Kakashi's main beef there.

"Jiraya, you taught Naruto Yondaimes swirly death Jutsu? Are you dense? Are you fucking retarded?"

"Shut the fuck up, I'm the God Damned Jiraya, and I'll teach whatever the fuck I want! If I want to teach him to piss toads out his /dick/ then god damnit, I fucking will. Sanin, motherfucker. I didnt get this title just so I could not teach dangerous jutsu when I wanted to. "

I think the difference with Rasengan is it's disproportionate power to its ease of use.

Plus Naruto had pretty much almost just killed Sasuke at that point had Kakashi himself not intervened.

[jasminegreen]

I think the difference between the Lotus and Chidori is that the Lotus, while awesome can kill the user. The Chidori user can be as irresponsible as they like and they won't get hurt by the technique.

If you misuse the Lotus, open too many gates or whatever... yeah... you die.

That was Kakashi's main beef there.



I think the difference with Rasengan is it's disproportionate power to its ease of use.

Plus Naruto had pretty much almost just killed Sasuke at that point had Kakashi himself not intervened.
Well, if you teach an assassination jutsu to a revenge driven kid, he's bound to use it on somebody. At least Gai was teaching a student that could be trusted with a powerful jutdu, if Gai tells Lee to only use it in an emergency, then Lee won't pull it out for no reason or turn on his teammates. And, since when is what Gai teaches his students any of Kakashi's bussiness? That's why he should've kept his mouth shut, because it wasn't his place to speak and Gai had a deeper reason behind teaching his student something powerful, unlike Kakashi who just wanted his genius student to outdo everybody else. That's just like the "Naruto learning Rasengan incident," Kakashi had his chance with Naruto, and did nothing but ignore him and put him down in favore of Sasuke, so he was in no position to tell Jiraiya anything about how to handle Naruto's training. Jiraiya has had students before, and they all respected him, he didn't play favorites, and his students didn't leave him for better teachers. Kakashi only has one batch of students his whole time as a sensei, and he screwed up. Naruto wanted to learn things from him, but Kakashi couldn't have cared less, he never trained Sakura, and she just out right left him for Tsunade. I almost feel Kakashi deserved to lose all of his students, of course i'm sure the only one he missed, or cared about losing, was 'his Sasuke.'

[Miburohunter929]

I think the difference between the Lotus and Chidori is that the Lotus, while awesome can kill the user. The Chidori user can be as irresponsible as they like and they won't get hurt by the technique.

If you misuse the Lotus, open too many gates or whatever... yeah... you die.

That was Kakashi's main beef there.



I think the difference with Rasengan is it's disproportionate power to its ease of use.

Plus Naruto had pretty much almost just killed Sasuke at that point had Kakashi himself not intervened.

Bah@ You trying to analyze a joke post. :P

But yeah, I agree, although it should be noticed that it /was/ pretty dangerous in that:

1. If Sasuke used Chidori more then twice he'd either be KO'D, or Dead from using up all his Chakra. (I remember Kakashi making a big point about that)

2. For anyone whose not Sasuke, the speed at which Chidori opperates leaves them wide open in that they cant react to a counter attack properly.

It's not at overtly Dangerous as the Higher Level Lotus, obviously, but if he uses it more then twice, he'd have died without the seal.

As for Naruto almost killing sasuke with Rasengan, it kinda goes both ways, dosnt it?

I'd Imagine it's easier to adjust Chidori's powerlevel then Rasengans, but even so, I've never been lead to believe Chidori does anything /but/ impale the shit out of you.

[The Once And Forever]

Well, if you teach an assassination jutsu to a revenge driven kid, he's bound to use it on somebody. At least Gai was teaching a student that could be trusted with a powerful jutdu, if Gai tells Lee to only use it in an emergency, then Lee won't pull it out for no reason or turn on his teammates. And, since when is what Gai teaches his students any of Kakashi's bussiness? That's why he should've kept his mouth shut, because it wasn't his place to speak and Gai had a deeper reason behind teaching his student something powerful, unlike Kakashi who just wanted his genius student to outdo everybody else. That's just like the "Naruto learning Rasengan incident," Kakashi had his chance with Naruto, and did nothing but ignore him and put him down in favore of Sasuke, so he was in no position to tell Jiraiya anything about how to handle Naruto's training. Jiraiya has had students before, and they all respected him, he didn't play favorites, and his students didn't leave him for better teachers. Kakashi only has one batch of students his whole time as a sensei, and he screwed up. Naruto wanted to learn things from him, but Kakashi couldn't have cared less, he never trained Sakura, and she just out right left him for Tsunade. I almost feel Kakashi deserved to lose all of his students, of course i'm sure the only one he missed, or cared about losing, was 'his Sasuke.'

Specifically the murderous, highly insane, and downright terrifying person Sasuke was about to fight, it wasn't like Kakashi taught it to Sasuke so that he could bust it out against anyone, it was a move made that could bust through Gaara's defense, because the original way(Being fast) wasn't going to work for very long before Sasuke's body gave out. I mean, as Miburo said, Kakashi really didn't have a lot of time to teach these kids, he didn't try with Sakura admittedly, but Naruto's way of power was something he couldn't really deal with at that time. Then look at Sasuke, who Kakashi has more in common with than anyone else in the village, he had to be the one to train him, otherwise the "Revenge" plot would have gone down quicker than before.

Granted, Kakashi wasn't a fantastic teacher to Naruto, hell, he wasn't even a good teacher to Naruto, but he got him by until someone(perfectly suited mind you) better was found.

[jasminegreen]

Specifically the murderous, highly insane, and downright terrifying person Sasuke was about to fight, it wasn't like Kakashi taught it to Sasuke so that he could bust it out against anyone, it was a move made that could bust through Gaara's defense, because the original way(Being fast) wasn't going to work for very long before Sasuke's body gave out. I mean, as Miburo said, Kakashi really didn't have a lot of time to teach these kids, he didn't try with Sakura admittedly, but Naruto's way of power was something he couldn't really deal with at that time. Then look at Sasuke, who Kakashi has more in common with than anyone else in the village, he had to be the one to train him, otherwise the "Revenge" plot would have gone down quicker than before.
Granted, Kakashi wasn't a fantastic teacher to Naruto, hell, he wasn't even a good teacher to Naruto, but he got him by until someone(perfectly suited mind you) better was found. Well, at least Sasuke wouldn't have had something as dangerous as Chidori in his arsenal. So, any innocent ninja that Sasuke hurts or kills, with that tecnique will make Kakashi an accomplace, and parcially responsible.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Well, at least Sasuke wouldn't have had something as dangerous as Chidori in his arsenal. So, any innocent ninja that Sasuke hurts or kills, with that tecnique will make Kakashi an accomplace.No. Not any more than Naruto's father is an accomplice anytime Naruto hurts somebody with the kyuubi chakra.

Kakashi was Sasuke's teacher. Teaching him chidori was the only thing tha could help Sasuke in his upcoming match against Gaara. And like other people have stated Sasuke was mentally and emotionally stable at the time.

Circumstances made Sasuke drift away from the leaf's path. But none of it was Kakashi's fault. Just like it's not Kakashi's fault if Sasuke would kill anbody with the chidori.

Even if Sasuke didn't know his elemental affinity by the time he went to Orochimaru he would've learned it there and developed his own techniques of similar caliber to the chidori.

[The Once And Forever]

Well, at least Sasuke wouldn't have had something as dangerous as Chidori in his arsenal. So, any innocent ninja that Sasuke hurts or kills, with that tecnique will make Kakashi an accomplace, and parcially responsible.
Well lets see, among the Jounin teachers we know what Sasuke could have learned.

Asuma: Nothing much, at all actually...

Kurenai: Genjutsu, good Gen, but against Itachi it would've backfired worse than before.

And that's it because Gai's group graduated before the K9 did.

Lets not forget that Konoha wasn't assuming he'd have a heel turn and that they had on their hands a great ninja with a Kekki Genkai that was (Pre-timeskip) really good or (Post-Timeskip) invincible.

Besides, how does a teacher without the Sharingan teach a kid with the Sharingan with half the effectiveness Kakashi did?

[jasminegreen]

No. Not any more than Naruto's father is an accomplice anytime Naruto hurts somebody with the kyuubi chakra.

Kakashi was Sasuke's teacher. Teaching him chidori was the only thing tha could help Sasuke in his upcoming match against Gaara. And like other people have stated Sasuke was mentally and emotionally stable at the time.

Circumstances made Sasuke drift away from the leaf's path. But none of it was Kakashi's fault. Just like it's not Kakashi's fault if Sasuke would kill anbody with the chidori.

Even if Sasuke didn't know his elemental affinity by the time he went to Orochimaru he would've learned it there and developed his own techniques of similar caliber to the chidori.

The Kyuubi incident is different, Minato probably wasn't strong enough to kill the Kyuubi, so he had to settle for sealing it. His sealing of the Kyuubi in Naruto helped more than it hurt. Naruto uses his power to protect people, no matter what. Kakashi can be held responsible, it's like if you give someone a gun, and they shoot a child with it, it makes you responsible, because you gave them the weapon. It's like a chain of events, if you start the chain, you're the one that's the most guilty.

[jasminegreen]

Well lets see, among the Jounin teachers we know what Sasuke could have learned.

Asuma: Nothing much, at all actually...

Kurenai: Genjutsu, good Gen, but against Itachi it would've backfired worse than before.

And that's it because Gai's group graduated before the K9 did.

Lets not forget that Konoha wasn't assuming he'd have a heel turn and that they had on their hands a great ninja with a Kekki Genkai that was (Pre-timeskip) really good or (Post-Timeskip) invincible.

Besides, how does a teacher without the Sharingan teach a kid with the Sharingan with half the effectiveness Kakashi did?

How does teaching Sasuke an assassination jutsu help with his Sharingan developement? If he wanted Sasuke, or was the only one that could teach him, then he should've been a private tutor instead of a group sensei, since he can only teach the genius. Naruto would've learned more under some other sensei for all of what Kakashi gave him.

[The Once And Forever]

How does teaching Sasuke an assassination jutsu help with his Sharingan developement? If he wanted Sasuke, or was the only one that could teach him, then he should've been a private tutor instead of a group sensei, since he can only teach the genius. Naruto would've learned more under some other sensei for all of what Kakashi gave him.
Kakashi told Sasuke that only someone with the Sharingan could use it because of the speed factor, it helps Sasuke recognize and react to things happening at great speeds (Mind you, his inability to react to what he saw is what got his ass kicked by Rock Lee) and learn to move out of the way.

[Dark Soul # 7]

The Kyuubi incident is different, Minato probably wasn't strong enough to kill the Kyuubi, so he had to settle for sealing it. His sealing of the Kyuubi in Naruto helped more than it hurt. Naruto uses his power to protect people, no matter what. Kakashi can be held responsible, it's like if you give someone a gun, and they shoot a child with it, it makes you responsible, because you gave them the weapon. It's like a chain of events, if you start the chain, you're the one that's the most guilty.Funny, I always thought that it was the guy shooting the kid that would be most guilty.

No we can still blame Naruto's father whenever Naruto hurts someone with the kyuubi chakra. At least that's what we should be able to do if we can blame Kakashi for something Sasuke does with the chidori.

They're both dangerous things and were given away with good intentions.

It's circumstances that make them differ. Kakashi taught Sasuke the chidori so that he could protect himself and his friends. He did his darndest to ensure that that was the way Sasuke would go. It was Orochimaru's manipulations and Itachi, who was a stupid-ass moron, mind-raping Sasuke that sent the kid on the slope to being who he is now and doing what he does.

Kakashi may have given Sasuke the chidori but it's Orochimaru and Itachi that're to blame for how he uses it, and himself of course. All of which are things that Kakashi had no control over.

[jasminegreen]

Funny, I always thought that it was the guy shooting the kid that would be most guilty.

No we can still blame Naruto's father whenever Naruto hurts someone with the kyuubi chakra. At least that's what we should be able to do if we can blame Kakashi for something Sasuke does with the chidori.

They're both dangerous things and were given away with good intentions.

It's circumstances that make them differ. Kakashi taught Sasuke the chidori so that he could protect himself and his friends. He did his darndest to ensure that that was the way Sasuke would go. It was Orochimaru's manipulations and Itachi, who was a stupid-ass moron, mind-raping Sasuke that sent the kid on the slope to being who he is now and doing what he does.

Kakashi may have given Sasuke the chidori but it's Orochimaru and Itachi that're to blame for how he uses it, and himself of course. All of which are things that Kakashi had no control over.

If it had never been taught it never qould have been missused. And, during the Chunin exam, if Sasuke's Curse Mark was so much to worry about why did Kakashi allow him to compete in the first place? He should've taken him out of the exam. Kakashi taught Sasuke Chidori because of a stupid eaxm, Jiraiya actually teaches Naruto a jutsu for portection and Kakashi is trying to point fiingers. That's the thing, he also seems to want to inhibit Naruto's training.

[Dark Soul # 7]

If it had never been taught it never qould have been missused.How was Kakashi supposed to know that it would be missused? Until Itachi mind-fucked Sasuke and Sound Four pushed him around Sasuke used chidori for good purposes.

Seriously, blaming the teacher for how the student behaves could work if the teacher was his only influence. That's not the case here.
And, during the Chunin exam, if Sasuke's Curse Mark was so much to worry about why did Kakashi allow him to compete in the first place? He should've taken him out of the exam.Kakashi had sealed it away and trusted Sasuke to not use it.
Kakashi taught Sasuke Chidori because of a stupid eaxm, Jiraiya actually teaches Naruto a jutsu for portection and Kakashi is trying to point fiingers.Kakashi entrusted Sasuke with his only original technique. That's stuff you'd normally do to a son or something like that. Sure it was so that he'd be strong enough to defeat Gaara. But do you really think that was the only reason? He expected Sasuke to be a good ninja who would protect his friends and the village. And Jiraiya taught Naruto the rasengan for the same reason. To make him stronger. He never mentioned anything about protecting people
That's the thing, he also seems to want to inhibit Naruto's training. That's were you're wrong. He's been more focused about Sasuke and concerned about Naruto hurting himself. That makes him a bad teacher. But we've already agreed on that.

He's never wanted to hold Naruto back or weaken or whatever you want to call it.

Seriously, you're a Kakashi fan?

[master of read]

blaming the teacher for how his/her student uses a technique is kinda flawed reasoning. anko has a lot of moves from oro's aresonal and yet, despite him being a evil douche, anko only uses them to protect the village.

in that same vein, jiraiya trained pein to protect himself and his friends. he didnt imagine that he would go the route he did.

a teacher can only teach a move to his student and hope he knows how and why to use it. kakashi hoped that by teaching him chidori, sasuke would be weened off his revenge which would've worked if oro and itachi didnt fuck up his head. plus, you dont hear naruto blaming kakashi for getting a hole in his lung. it was sasuke's choice to use that move for his own reasons, not kakashi's.

[jasminegreen]

How was Kakashi supposed to know that it would be missused? Until Itachi mind-fucked Sasuke and Sound Four pushed him around Sasuke used chidori for good purposes.

Seriously, blaming the teacher for how the student behaves could work if the teacher was his only influence. That's not the case here.
Kakashi had sealed it away and trusted Sasuke to not use it.
Kakashi entrusted Sasuke with his only original technique. That's stuff you'd normally do to a son or something like that. Sure it was so that he'd be strong enough to defeat Gaara. But do you really think that was the only reason? He expected Sasuke to be a good ninja who would protect his friends and the village. And Jiraiya taught Naruto the rasengan for the same reason. To make him stronger. He never mentioned anything about protecting people
That's were you're wrong. He's been more focused about Sasuke and concerned about Naruto hurting himself. That makes him a bad teacher. But we've already agreed on that.

He's never wanted to hold Naruto back or weaken or whatever you want to call it.

Seriously, you're a Kakashi fan?

Shouldn't one of the top rules for a ninja be "Don't be too trusting."? at least of someone like Sasuke., who is already on a revenge driven path, and has the most potential of going bad. That's the thing, he put so much trust in Sasuke and trusted him enough to teach him an assassination technique, but when it comes to Naruto, he doesn't think Naruto can be entruisted with Rasengan. If it were up to Kakashi, Naruto probably wouldn't have learned Rasengan until Shippuuden, if he learned it at all. Kakashi has laways seemed a bit snobbish and uppity to me, and it ties into the fact that he puts the most praise and trust into the student that's "just like him." Naruto isn't like him, so apparently, he doesn't trust Naruto the way he does Sasuke. You say he was worried about Naruto hurting himself, why wasn't he worried about Sasuke hurting himself by using the Chidori? So, I doen't think worry had anything to do with it. Kakashi is one of my top characters, but Naruto is also in my top list, and it just seemed like Kakashi was just indifferent and unconcerned with Naruto, or anything pertaining to him, in general.

[Miburohunter929]

It should be noted *points to above posts* That /all/ Jounin tend to praise the one they favor most, and tend to favor /train better/ the one most like them.

Gai gives Neji/Tenten Mad props, but Lee's the man in his eyes.

Asuma gives Ino some props, and tells Chouji to work out more, and tells Shikamaru to get serious, in between calling him a genius.

Jiraya chose Naruto, and they happen to be /very/ similar, ala Kakashi.

Likewise with Lee/Gai.

Honestly, favoring someone who reminds you of yourself isnt that surprising.

[jasminegreen]

It should be noted *points to above posts* That /all/ Jounin tend to praise the one they favor most, and tend to favor /train better/ the one most like them.

Gai gives Neji/Tenten Mad props, but Lee's the man in his eyes.

Asuma gives Ino some props, and tells Chouji to work out more, and tells Shikamaru to get serious, in between calling him a genius.

Jiraya chose Naruto, and they happen to be /very/ similar, ala Kakashi.

Likewise with Lee/Gai.

Honestly, favoring someone who reminds you of yourself isnt that surprising.
But, the other Jonin sensei supported the other students, and never called them stupid or actively pushed them away, like Kakashi did. And, if they did spend time with their 'favorite' student, it wasn't at the expence of the other students.

[Spidey-kid1]

if Gai tells Lee to only use it in an emergency, then Lee won't pull it out for no reason.Correct me if I'm wrong, but the time where Lee fought Sasuke, wasn't he about to bust out Lotus on him even though it was complete and utter overkill? Why did he do it again? Was it to impress Sasuke or Sakura or something?

That doesn't really seem like a good reason to pull out a technique that could seriously injure both Sasuke and lee. Especially when he did great without it.

And as its been said, all the teachers in this series has a favorite, and that had that favorite because their student was very similar to them. That doesn't really make them a good teacher, but they're only human, and humans do tend to let emotions and thoughts get the better of them.

Kakashi was no worse a teacher than Gai (ok... maybe he was a little bit worse, but thats totally not the point).

But, the other Jonin sensei supported the other students, and never called them stupid or actively pushed them away. like Kakashi did. And, if they did spend time with their 'favorite' student, it wasn't at the expence of the other students.Gai called Lee all kinds of insults and laid him out multiple times.

At least Kakashi never falcon punched Naruto in the face like Gai did to Lee. :tongue:

[nervmeister]

Long story short, we all know Jiraya was the real mentor behind Naruto. Not Kakashi.

[jasminegreen]

Long story short, we all know Jiraya was the real mentor behind Naruto. Not Kakashi.

I agree. I mentor figure is someone that most should be able to look up to, and come to. The only one that can really count on Kakashi, is Sasuke. That's a very select amount of people. The closest thing to a real mentor, and father/grandfather figure that Naruto had was, Jiraiya, and now he's gone. So, hopefully, nothing will happen to Iruka, if Naruto loses him too, then he won't have another family figure to spare.

[Miburohunter929]

I agree. I mentor figure is someone that most should be able to look up to, and come to. The only one that can really count on Kakashi, is Sasuke. That's a very select amount of people. The closest thing to a real mentor, and father/grandfather figure that Naruto had was, Jiraiya, and now he's gone. So, hopefully, nothing will happen to Iruka, if Naruto loses him too, then he won't have another family figure to spare.

Wait, how the hell can Naruto /not/ count on Kakashi?

The man carried his half-dead ass back to Konoha after he fought sasuke, he taught him an S-ranked Jutsu, and how to use Kage Bunshin to it's full extent, and he's promised to protect his comrades (You know, Sasuke, Sakura, /and/ Naruto) with his life.

Not to mention trusting Naruto enough to let him help out with Faux Itachi.

Hell, he was there waiting to greet Naruto the day he returned from the timeskip.

Not to mention Pain just asked Kakashi where Naruto was, and Kakashi told him he aint telling before almost Raikairing him in the face.

Not to mention giving Naruto props, saying he's on par with Kakashi himself, and he begrudgingly let Naruto solo Kazuku at the end (Him and Yamato even bailed him out of trouble)

I mean, it's one thing to say he's a bad mentor, but you seem to be saying Kakashi dosnt give a flying shit about anyone other then Sasuke, which just isnt true.

Not to mention, damn near everyone can count on Kakashi, he's saved almost every ninja in Konoha at one time or the other.

Naruto, Kunerai, Asuma, Sakura, Sasuke, Rin, Iruka, Garra (He *did* go on the team to bail his ass out of the shit, IIRC) Ino, Chouji, possibly Shikamaru (I forget)

He's one of the most dependable peoples around.

[jasminegreen]

Wait, how the hell can Naruto /not/ count on Kakashi?

The man carried his half-dead ass back to Konoha after he fought sasuke, he taught him an S-ranked Jutsu, and how to use Kage Bunshin to it's full extent, and he's promised to protect his comrades (You know, Sasuke, Sakura, /and/ Naruto) with his life.
Not to mention trusting Naruto enough to let him help out with Faux Itachi.

Hell, he was there waiting to greet Naruto the day he returned from the timeskip.

Not to mention Pain just asked Kakashi where Naruto was, and Kakashi told him he aint telling before almost Raikairing him in the face.
Not to mention giving Naruto props, saying he's on par with Kakashi himself, and he begrudgingly let Naruto solo Kazuku at the end (Him and Yamato even bailed him out of trouble)

I mean, it's one thing to say he's a bad mentor, but you seem to be saying Kakashi dosnt give a flying shit about anyone other then Sasuke, which just isnt true.

Not to mention, damn near everyone can count on Kakashi, he's saved almost every ninja in Konoha at one time or the other.

Naruto, Kunerai, Asuma, Sakura, Sasuke, Rin, Iruka, Garra (He *did* go on the team to bail his ass out of the shit, IIRC) Ino, Chouji, possibly Shikamaru (I forget)

He's one of the most dependable peoples around.

I never said Kakashi was a traitor, if he told Pein where Naruto was that'd make him a traitor, only a traitor would sell out someone from the same village. When I say count on, I mean to be there for in a different way. Like, if Naruto is upset about something and needs consolling, then Iruka is the only one that can be there for him, as a fa,ily figure, or someone to just talk to. Like when Naruto is upset about Jiraiya dying. Iruka, not Kakashi, was the one to tlk to him. the only one Kakashi tried to console, is Sasuke. Iruka and Jiraiya both connected with Naruto in a way Kakashi never did and never will. Now, Jiraiya is gone and Iruka is all he has left of that. And, in a flashback, Naruto is with Jiraiya and Jiraiya is telling Naruto about his life and the relationship he had with orochimaru, I guess so Naruto would know the he understood what he was going through with Sasuke. And, he tells Naruto that he's glad that he took him on as an apprentice.

[Guy1]

Since we're talking about Kakashi and all....
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5859/ba474ae367c720fullgi2.jpg

[Dark Soul # 7]

I never said Kakashi was a traitor, if he told Pein where Naruto was that'd make him a traitor, only a traitor would sell out someone from the same village. When I say count on, I mean to be there for in a different way. Like, if Naruto is upset about something and needs consolling, then Iruka is the only one that can be there for him, as a fa,ily figure, or someone to just talk to. Like when Naruto is upset about Jiraiya dying. Iruka, not Kakashi, was the one to tlk to him. the only one Kakashi tried to console, is Sasuke. Iruka and Jiraiya both connected with Naruto in a way Kakashi never did and never will. Now, Jiraiya is gone and Iruka is all he has left of that. And, in a flashback, Naruto is with Jiraiya and Jiraiya is telling Naruto about his life and the relationship he had with orochimaru, I guess so Naruto would know the he understood what he was going through with Sasuke. And, he tells Naruto that he's glad that he took him on as an apprentice.When did Kakashi try to console Sasuke.

He's called him out on how going down the path of revenge won't give him anything and almost managed to straighten him out right then and there. And he's trained him and admonished him. But he's never consoled him. Kakashi isn't good at that, because he shuts most of his emotions inside of himself.

So we've established that Kakashi isn't a great teacher when it comes to having more than one students and he isn't the best person to console people. That's ok, he's only human. He will have flaws. But he is still an incredibly loyal, trusting and respectful to his comrades. And he most definately considers Naruto his comrade.

[nervmeister]

I agree. I mentor figure is someone that most should be able to look up to, and come to. The only one that can really count on Kakashi, is Sasuke. That's a very select amount of people. The closest thing to a real mentor, and father/grandfather figure that Naruto had was, Jiraiya, and now he's gone. So, hopefully, nothing will happen to Iruka, if Naruto loses him too, then he won't have another family figure to spare.Wha? Is Jiraya dead?? :eek:

[jasminegreen]

Wha? Is Jiraya dead?? :eek:

Sorry, if I spoiled it for you, but yeah. I gonna have to rap some spoiler tahs around some things.

[Nik Hasta]

I fail to see how Kakashi not consoling makes him a bad person.

He doesn't do emotions 90% of the time himself, heck even Gai would be better at dealings than Kakashi.

It's not slur against him, he's a great person. A good teacher, a great ninja, couragous fighter and a dependable friend. I fail to see why he's a bad role model and mentor.

[jasminegreen]

I fail to see how Kakashi not consoling makes him a bad person.

He doesn't do emotions 90% of the time himself, heck even Gai would be better at dealings than Kakashi.

It's not slur against him, he's a great person. A good teacher, a great ninja, couragous fighter and a dependable friend. I fail to see why he's a bad role model and mentor.

I'm not saying he's a bad person. From the moment I saw Kakashi, I knew he was a character that didn't show much emotion, and I didn't, and still don't, expect him to change. And, I like him as a character, but, as a sensei, he just seemd to only be appreciative of the genius student, and seemed to put more trust into the student that was a genius, and that was "like him." He didn't seem to trust Naruto the way he trusted Sasuke, and judged him without understanding him, or his situation.

[Devil_LeonX]

I personally think that he did favor teaching Sasuke at times but also like others have said he pretty much was the only one that could train him sense both have the sharingan.Also I think that time skip wise he has taught him a few things I mean as far as I'm concerned hes learned a lot more training with kakashi then he has with the J-man for it seems the only thing he learn while training with Jiraiya was the great rasengan and drawing out more of the the 9 tails chakra and honestly almost anyone or hell Naruto himself would have figured it out himself

.But while trying with kakashi and Yamoto he learned a jutsu that no one else could possibly do even the the 4th and with J-man what did he learn???a move he learned his own and drawing out more chakra that's about it.So I dont think hes been a bad teacher over all perhaps not the best but certainly not the worst though I do wish he did more with dear Sakura...oh well

[jasminegreen]

I personally think that he did favor teaching Sasuke at times but also like others have said he pretty much was the only one that could train him sense both have the sharingan.Also I think that time skip wise he has taught him a few things I mean as far as I'm concerned hes learned a lot more training with kakashi then he has with the J-man for it seems the only thing he learn while training with Jiraiya was the great rasengan and drawing out more of the the 9 tails chakra and honestly almost anyone or hell Naruto himself would have figured it out himself

.But while trying with kakashi and Yamoto he learned a jutsu that no one else could possibly do even the the 4th and with J-man what did he learn???a move he learned his own and drawing out more chakra that's about it.So I dont think hes been a bad teacher over all perhaps not the best but certainly not the worst though I do wish he did more with dear Sakura...oh well

Well, Naruto would've have gotten as far as he did without Jiraiya. Kakashi didn't really give Naruto much help during the Chunin exam. Jiraiya taught Naruto how to harness the Kyuubi chakra (which helped him beat Neji), he removed the Five-pronged seal that Kakashi, ignorantly, never noticed, he taught Naruto how to summon (which he used to save everyone from Gaara). Then, later in part one we find out that the Akatsuki are after Naruto, so Jiraiya teaches him Rasengan then. And, Kakashi wasn't happy about Nauto learning Rasengan because he thought Naruto was too stupid to have learned it yet. My guess is, if it had been up to Kakashi, Naruto wouldn't have learned base Rasengan until Shippuuden, and maybe not even then. So, Jiraiya has been there for Naruto more than Kakashi has. He protects Naruto, and in part 1, when he leaves to look for Tsunade, he brings Naruto with him, which saved Naruto's life when Itachi and Kisame came to the village looking for him. So, if Jiraiya hadn't took an interest and concern in Naruto's life and well-being, Naruto would've been dead before Shippuuden started.

[Miburohunter929]

Well, Naruto would've have gotten as far as he did without Jiraiya. Kakashi didn't really give Naruto much help during the Chunin exam. Jiraiya taught Naruto how to harness the Kyuubi chakra (which helped him beat Neji), he removed the Five-pronged seal that Kakashi, ignorantly, never noticed, he taught Naruto how to summon (which he used to save everyone from Gaara). Then, later in part one we find out that the Akatsuki are after Naruto, so Jiraiya teaches him Rasengan then. And, Kakashi wasn't happy about Nauto learning Rasengan because he thought Naruto was too stupid to have learned it yet. My guess is, if it had been up to Kakashi, Naruto wouldn't have learned base Rasengan until Shippuuden, and maybe not even then. So, Jiraiya has been there for Naruto more than Kakashi has. He protects Naruto, and in part 1, when he leaves to look for Tsunade, he brings Naruto with him, which saved Naruto's life when Itachi and Kisame came to the village looking for him. So, if Jiraiya hadn't took an interest and concern in Naruto's life and well-being, Naruto would've been dead before Shippuuden started.

Oh, come on, now you're being unreasonable. Kakashi had no reason to suspect that Orochimaru put a seal on him, and it was hidden under his shirt.

Hell, Didnt Jiraya only notice because Naruto was about to take a bath or something?

Besides, Naruto sucks at Chakra Control, I dont see how Kakashi would have went "My god, he's even suckier as usual, obviously, someone put a seal on him!"

It's not like Orochimaru bragged to everyone about putting one on Naruto like he did with Sasuke, and it wasn't in a nearly as obvious place.

Kakashi's not a mind-reader.

And Naruto was technically the one who esculated the fight by bringing out their sure kill instant techs.

They fought, Sasuke was winning, Naruto brought out five clones, Sasuke brought out a Katon, Naruto brought out Rasengan, Sasuke Brought out Chidori.

I'm not giving any of them slack, but Naruto /was/ the one who brought out his biggest gun first.

And considering Naruto's never been shown to be the master of holding back, I'd be worried too, since from the look of things, Jiraya didnt give Naruto the "Protect your friends" Speech.

And obviously, it's not like Sasuke got off scot free, since he got chewed the fuck out.

It's not that Naruto's stupid, Kakashi just saw him try to impale Sasuke with it. I'd be kinda pissed too if I saw one student pull out his forbidden Jutsu to impale his comrade.

If anything, he questioned Naruto's emotional Maturity, not his intelligence.

And Jiraya being their for Naruto more then Kakashi is isnt a blight on Kakashi.

I mean, Jiraya is the kids God-Father, I'd like to think he could take some intrest.

I mean, between him and Iruka, It's not like he's got no one to talk to, and it's not like their was much time for Kakashi to shoot the breeze with him.

There was the wave mission, then the chunnin exams, then the invasion, then Kakashi got put into a coma, then they had to resuce sasuke, then Naruto left the village.

It's not like Kakashi was just dodging him at every turn for no reason.

And I'd like to think helping Naruto with his S-Rank tech, atleast makes up for any shit he did in the past, and he trusted Naruto enough to let him deal with Kazuku, even though he logically knew that was fucking stupid.

[Miburohunter929]

Well, Naruto would've have gotten as far as he did without Jiraiya. Kakashi didn't really give Naruto much help during the Chunin exam. Jiraiya taught Naruto how to harness the Kyuubi chakra (which helped him beat Neji), he removed the Five-pronged seal that Kakashi, ignorantly, never noticed, he taught Naruto how to summon (which he used to save everyone from Gaara). Then, later in part one we find out that the Akatsuki are after Naruto, so Jiraiya teaches him Rasengan then. And, Kakashi wasn't happy about Nauto learning Rasengan because he thought Naruto was too stupid to have learned it yet. My guess is, if it had been up to Kakashi, Naruto wouldn't have learned base Rasengan until Shippuuden, and maybe not even then. So, Jiraiya has been there for Naruto more than Kakashi has. He protects Naruto, and in part 1, when he leaves to look for Tsunade, he brings Naruto with him, which saved Naruto's life when Itachi and Kisame came to the village looking for him. So, if Jiraiya hadn't took an interest and concern in Naruto's life and well-being, Naruto would've been dead before Shippuuden started.

Oh, come on, now you're being unreasonable. Kakashi had no reason to suspect that Orochimaru put a seal on him, and it was hidden under his shirt.

Hell, Didnt Jiraya only notice because Naruto was about to take a bath or something?

Besides, Naruto sucks at Chakra Control, I dont see how Kakashi would have went "My god, he's even suckier as usual, obviously, someone put a seal on him!"

It's not like Orochimaru bragged to everyone about putting one on Naruto like he did with Sasuke, and it wasn't in a nearly as obvious place.

Kakashi's not a mind-reader.

And Naruto was technically the one who esculated the fight by bringing out their sure kill instant techs.

They fought, Sasuke was winning, Naruto brought out five clones, Sasuke brought out a Katon, Naruto brought out Rasengan, Sasuke Brought out Chidori.

I'm not giving any of them slack, but Naruto /was/ the one who brought out his biggest gun first.

And considering Naruto's never been shown to be the master of holding back, I'd be worried too, since from the look of things, Jiraya didnt give Naruto the "Protect your friends" Speech.

And obviously, it's not like Sasuke got off scot free, since he got chewed the fuck out. I honestly can't recall Naruto even getting that much from Jiraya.

He got like a glare.

It's not that Naruto's stupid, Kakashi just saw him try to impale Sasuke with it. I'd be kinda pissed too if I saw one student pull out his forbidden Jutsu to impale his comrade.

If anything, he questioned Naruto's emotional Maturity, not his intelligence.

And Jiraya being their for Naruto more then Kakashi is isnt a blight on Kakashi.

I mean, Jiraya is the kids God-Father, I'd like to think he could take some intrest.

I mean, between him and Iruka, It's not like he's got no one to talk to, and it's not like their was much time for Kakashi to shoot the breeze with him.

There was the wave mission, then the chunnin exams, then the invasion, then Kakashi got put into a coma, then they had to resuce sasuke, then Naruto left the village.

It's not like Kakashi was just dodging him at every turn for no reason.

And I'd like to think helping Naruto with his S-Rank tech, atleast makes up for any shit he did in the past, and he trusted Naruto enough to let him deal with Kazuku, even though he logically knew that was fucking stupid.

[Devil_LeonX]

Well, Naruto would've have gotten as far as he did without Jiraiya. Kakashi didn't really give Naruto much help during the Chunin exam. Jiraiya taught Naruto how to harness the Kyuubi chakra (which helped him beat Neji), he removed the Five-pronged seal that Kakashi, ignorantly, never noticed, he taught Naruto how to summon (which he used to save everyone from Gaara). Then, later in part one we find out that the Akatsuki are after Naruto, so Jiraiya teaches him Rasengan then. And, Kakashi wasn't happy about Nauto learning Rasengan because he thought Naruto was too stupid to have learned it yet. My guess is, if it had been up to Kakashi, Naruto wouldn't have learned base Rasengan until Shippuuden, and maybe not even then. So, Jiraiya has been there for Naruto more than Kakashi has. He protects Naruto, and in part 1, when he leaves to look for Tsunade, he brings Naruto with him, which saved Naruto's life when Itachi and Kisame came to the village looking for him. So, if Jiraiya hadn't took an interest and concern in Naruto's life and well-being, Naruto would've been dead before Shippuuden started.
Well I was disputing what he learned when he was 12 or 13 I was talking about 2 year jump wise, but you are right about him learning the Rasengan and Summon jutsu but you cant blamed kakashi for the seal hell the J man barely noticed it himself.

[jasminegreen]

Well I was disputing what he learned when he was 12 or 13 I was talking about 2 year jump wise, but you are right about him learning the Rasengan and Summon jutsu but you cant blamed kakashi for the seal hell the J man barely noticed it himself.

But Jiraiya did notice, and he noticed within the first few minutes, or hours of training Naruto. Kakashi never even thought to check, is what I mean. He just automatically asumed Naruto just sucked. He saw Sasuke had the Curse Mark, if Orochimaru did something to one of his students, why on earth wouldn't he think to check the other ones, especially the one the the really important seal, that could be dangerous if tampered with.

[jasminegreen]

Oh, come on, now you're being unreasonable. Kakashi had no reason to suspect that Orochimaru put a seal on him, and it was hidden under his shirt.

Hell, Didnt Jiraya only notice because Naruto was about to take a bath or something?

Besides, Naruto sucks at Chakra Control, I dont see how Kakashi would have went "My god, he's even suckier as usual, obviously, someone put a seal on him!"

It's not like Orochimaru bragged to everyone about putting one on Naruto like he did with Sasuke, and it wasn't in a nearly as obvious place.

Kakashi's not a mind-reader.

And Naruto was technically the one who esculated the fight by bringing out their sure kill instant techs.

They fought, Sasuke was winning, Naruto brought out five clones, Sasuke brought out a Katon, Naruto brought out Rasengan, Sasuke Brought out Chidori.

I'm not giving any of them slack, but Naruto /was/ the one who brought out his biggest gun first.

And considering Naruto's never been shown to be the master of holding back, I'd be worried too, since from the look of things, Jiraya didnt give Naruto the "Protect your friends" Speech.

And obviously, it's not like Sasuke got off scot free, since he got chewed the fuck out. I honestly can't recall Naruto even getting that much from Jiraya.

He got like a glare.

It's not that Naruto's stupid, Kakashi just saw him try to impale Sasuke with it. I'd be kinda pissed too if I saw one student pull out his forbidden Jutsu to impale his comrade.

If anything, he questioned Naruto's emotional Maturity, not his intelligence.

And Jiraya being their for Naruto more then Kakashi is isnt a blight on Kakashi.

I mean, Jiraya is the kids God-Father, I'd like to think he could take some intrest.

I mean, between him and Iruka, It's not like he's got no one to talk to, and it's not like their was much time for Kakashi to shoot the breeze with him.

There was the wave mission, then the chunnin exams, then the invasion, then Kakashi got put into a coma, then they had to resuce sasuke, then Naruto left the village.

It's not like Kakashi was just dodging him at every turn for no reason.

And I'd like to think helping Naruto with his S-Rank tech, atleast makes up for any shit he did in the past, and he trusted Naruto enough to let him deal with Kazuku, even though he logically knew that was fucking stupid.
Well Jiraiya taught Naruto that jutsu to protect him, and Kakashi thinks he shouldn't have learned it at all. Sasuke wasn't exactally a mature, and stable kid. His whole life is about power and vengence, and Kakashi trusted him with an assassination jutsu, nice. So, he can teach Sasuke dangerous jutsu to protect him, but Jiraiya can't do the same with Naruto? So, by his actions, he cares about Sasuke going to Orochimaru, but he doesn't care if Naruto is captured and killed by a gang of ninja that are after him.
Well I was disputing what he learned when he was 12 or 13 I was talking about 2 year jump wise, but you are right about him learning the Rasengan and Summon jutsu but you cant blamed kakashi for the seal hell the J man barely noticed it himself.

But Jiraiya did notice, and he knew within the first few minutes, or hours, of being with and training Naruto. Kakashi saw that Sasuke had the Curse Mark, Orochimaru did something to one of his students, why wouldn't he be causious, and check the student with the most important seal in the village, that could become dangerous if tampered with? Kinda neglectful, and stupid.