Library Edition Vol 2 [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Kees_L

10-07-2008, 06:52 AM

Vol1 was amazing--the fact it's oversized really pulls you into the art.

Hi kawfeadikt! :smile: Your first post, welcome here.
I just cherish these Hellboy Library editions.
Don't really know if that's solely about the art-size 'though: upon glancing at it I often 'll start running around like a crazy-man, mind you. Loved the new sketchbook material for sure however.

chiaroscuros

10-07-2008, 09:41 AM

The size increase is great! Heck, I would love to see it blown up to the size of the original art (11x14 ish) if we could get to see the subtle ink shading! But you would need to locate the original pages and reshoot the art, so that is probably not going to ever happen.

That being said, the color is consistant from issue to issue and much cleaner than the originals. Plus I love the slightly glossy paper rather than the dead flat blacks of the originals. I really feel like I am seeing the art the way it was meant to be seen finally.

Keep them coming!

hellboyone

10-07-2008, 09:51 AM

I actually thought the opposite. Truthfully, I feel the larger scale weakens the quality of the art.

The Real Inadia

Considering it's closer to the actual size drawn, I can only disagree. Looking at the few originals and photocopies of originals I have only strengthens my disagreement. It's the wonderful subtleties in the art that disappear when reduced to comic book size.

InAdia

10-07-2008, 04:03 PM

Considering it's closer to the actual size drawn, I can only disagree. Looking at the few originals and photocopies of originals I have only strengthens my disagreement. It's the wonderful subtleties in the art that disappear when reduced to comic book size.

To each their own, but I find that Mike's art isn't detailed enough to warrant being blown up. Some panels are exquisite, others look like something drawn by a child in secondary school. I can see someone like Alex Ross's having their work put into a library edition, but Mike Mignola, not so much, however I am really excited to see an over-sized Wolves of St. August (possibly my favorite piece by Mike). Ultimately, the sketchbook and the price were the selling points for me on obtaining Volume 1.

The Real Inadia

TBolt

10-07-2008, 04:12 PM

So, what do you guys do with the trades after you get the new hardbacks?

Jake Capps

10-07-2008, 04:16 PM

To each their own, but I find that Mike's art isn't detailed enough to warrant being blown up. Some panels are exquisite, others look like something drawn by a child in secondary school.

That's harsh, but a respected opinion. Some of Mike's more "simple" art is so hard to duplicate. When you see a wide shot of HB, and he draws him in this very simple yet elegant out line...Man how does he do that?!

Kees_L

10-07-2008, 04:24 PM

To each their own, but I find that Mike's art isn't detailed enough to warrant being blown up.

Some of the posts above seem to point out that the art is actually being down-scaled for the comics, less so for over-sized logically. To which one might argue that comic-size will be the norm - and others might opt to opt: but panels have actually been done in a larger size than even over-sized.
I say: buy over-sized if you like big. Semantically much like hamburgers...:smile:

And excellent question TBolt, I fear I'm opting to simply keep mine, locked away like pricked up butterflies... ;D

Jake Capps

10-07-2008, 04:34 PM

So, what do you guys do with the trades after you get the new hardbacks?

Those are now perfect for young readers who cannot be trusted with hard covers or original comics. "Wait...did I get that TPB signed? Give it back."

InAdia

10-07-2008, 04:37 PM

So, what do you guys do with the trades after you get the new hardbacks?

I cut them up and make book marks.

The Real Inadia

InAdia

10-07-2008, 04:42 PM

That's harsh, but a respected opinion. Some of Mike's more "simple" art is so hard to duplicate. When you see a wide shot of HB, and he draws him in this very simple yet elegant out line...Man how does he do that?!

True, but I am not a fan of it. I personally feel that his work has been in decline since The Conqueror Worm. Artistically I found Third Wish and The Island to be grossly mediocre. I think I may be one of the few people that are actually happy that Duncan has taken over art duties on the main book. I am still a fan of Mike's covers, sketches, and writing. But his interior art has left me more than underwhelmed.

The Real Inadia

Jake Capps

10-07-2008, 06:18 PM

True, but I am not a fan of it. I personally feel that his work has been in decline since The Conqueror Worm. Artistically I found Third Wish and The Island to be grossly mediocre. I think I may be one of the few people that are actually happy that Duncan has taken over art duties on the main book. I am still a fan of Mike's covers, sketches, and writing. But his interior art has left me more than underwhelmed.

The Real Inadia

You know only someone who reads all of Mike's HB work could make a comment like that. And it's clear that you have. I only got into HB with the Third Wish so it's funny that comic drew me in. What about Dave's color work? I want that guy to paint my house, and everything in it!

Edward J Grug III

10-07-2008, 09:42 PM

I got my volume one Library Edition in the mail this morning, it's AMAZING!

I have to agree with the folks who are happy to see Mike's work blown up, "simplistic" definitely doesn't mean bad. It's absolutely beautiful.

I am wondering, I assume all of the Hellboy titles will be released as Library Editions, but what about the spin-off books? Will BPRD, Abe and Lobster Johnson be collected in this way too?

InAdia

10-07-2008, 10:15 PM

You know only someone who reads all of Mike's HB work could make a comment like that. And it's clear that you have. I only got into HB with the Third Wish so it's funny that comic drew me in. What about Dave's color work? I want that guy to paint my house, and everything in it!

The coloring has actually gotten better over the years. I mean I don't hate Mike but I am not buying that he is intentionally making his art less complex when he turns around and gives us amazing covers month in and month out. I think his change in style is centered mostly around time constraints if anything. Hellboy wasn't a big time license back in those days of great delays, now its the biggest internal property that they have, latest movie mad 143 million,everyone recognizes the fist; and newer readers who are used to having DC and Marvel drivel come down the pipeline every month probably aren't familiar with how things are done over at The Horse.

However, good news is that we're getting more books out of the deal so can't exactly call it a bad thing.

The Real Inadia

Nick W

10-07-2008, 11:11 PM

This is the most fun reading a thread I've had in a while (but for what it's worth I am an original art geek). Very solid, well thought out points all. And a very civil tone which is always nice. While my personal favorite period of Mike's work is 95-99 or so going from Wake to Box, I'm still just as amazed by his current "simplistic" work as I was by what he did on Gotham by Gaslight & Wolverine: Jungle Adventure. I might be priced out of collecting his art soon, but as long as I have some money in my pocket & he's at a show selling, I'll hope to walk out with a page.

And on point, I love the library editions & like Michael, wish there were super over-sized editions showing the originals. But if wishes were fishes...

And I hang on to the trades too. Either for loaning them out to friends or taking them to cons as references for artists that might not be all that familiar with HB.

N

Kees_L

10-08-2008, 12:47 AM

Reading Nick's post there I feel I'm realizing how so many MM works contain a uniqueness in their own. And I'm loving all of it. The Jungle Adventure seems a in a way a rather worked out nod to Frazetta and Williamson, with very balanced out art 'though in Fafhrd much more is told per panel. The art in Fafhrd seems more loose. Dracula seems much more about heavy blacks (blacks being fully black) and the story seems told very sequentially, as in Ironwolf.
What I see as the style-change in recent Hellboy I find to have much to do with panels, the build-up of them (to have the story unfold) and the avoidance of different levels in 2d or 3d-ness in what they show. A panel containing something up close and worked out 'in the old days' seemed to dictate other stuff to be left out and be put in other panel parts.
Now it seems the rule is more that everything has to have form. Like maybe since 'the Penangellan' or the Island. Less seems 'highlighted out' to be portrayed fully and up close: everything has to have form on its own. Almost like clay animation. It seems flatness is much avoided.
But like I said: I seem to like it all so very much.
Let come the 'Chapel' :smile:...

pimpernel

10-08-2008, 05:42 AM

True, but I am not a fan of it. I personally feel that his work has been in decline since The Conqueror Worm. Artistically I found Third Wish and The Island to be grossly mediocre. I think I may be one of the few people that are actually happy that Duncan has taken over art duties on the main book. I am still a fan of Mike's covers, sketches, and writing. But his interior art has left me more than underwhelmed.

The Real Inadia

Be interested to hear your opinion of his work on Moloch. Preview is up now over at the DH site. :biggrin:

Bertowud

10-08-2008, 08:27 AM

And on point, I love the library editions & like Michael, wish there were super over-sized editions showing the originals. But if wishes were fishes...
N

Have you seen some of the foreign black and white reprints? They look like they were shot directly from the artword. You can even see the strokes in the blacks. I've bought a couple of the French ones off eBay over the years.

CBM

10-08-2008, 09:54 AM

The coloring has actually gotten better over the years. I mean I don't hate Mike but I am not buying that he is intentionally making his art less complex when he turns around and gives us amazing covers month in and month out. I think his change in style is centered mostly around time constraints if anything. Hellboy wasn't a big time license back in those days of great delays, now its the biggest internal property that they have, latest movie mad 143 million,everyone recognizes the fist; and newer readers who are used to having DC and Marvel drivel come down the pipeline every month probably aren't familiar with how things are done over at The Horse.

However, good news is that we're getting more books out of the deal so can't exactly call it a bad thing.

The Real Inadia
InAdia...
Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I just want to make it clear that while
a lot of factors have gone into my change in art style, TIME is not one of them...pages I draw now take longer than they did 5 years ago...there is more attention to design, composition etc...
Mike Mignola

Mike Cross

10-08-2008, 10:05 AM

Honest answer Mike and it's appreciated. I find the Library editions to be extremely cool, but have not delved too deeply in the art differences in the larger format. The news about Moloch was a welcome one and i'm already excited about this story.

Neil Hill

10-08-2008, 10:14 AM

I agree with Nick that this thread has been a fun read! Lots of varying opinions here. Personally I'm of two minds on this topic. I love the smaller editions, as they are what I've been raised on and have grown to appreciate over the years, however, being an avid original art geek like Michael, Nick, et. al., I also love the artwork in a larger scale. I tend to feel that the artwork in a four-color comic format works best at a smaller scale (as that is how most pages were designed- the work is best viewed at the size it was intended to be printed), but Mike's pages are so gorgeous that regardless of scale, the depth, intensity and power are all still there on the page! I can't wait to get my hands on vol. 2! Those of you who already have yours...I'm sending jealousy daggers your way right now! Can you feel them?! Poke...poke. :biggrin:

Ivar_L

10-08-2008, 11:35 AM

Have you seen some of the foreign black and white reprints? They look like they were shot directly from the artword. You can even see the strokes in the blacks. I've bought a couple of the French ones off eBay over the years.

A couple? So, there are several French editions? (I know about smaller German b&w books...)
I have this one - http://www.amazon.fr/Hellboy-troisi%C3%A8me-sp%C3%A9ciale-Mike-Mignola/dp/2847898379/ref=sr_1_37?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223485928&sr=8-37
and it's bigger pages look just like printed from bitmap images (made from CMYK's black channel), no grays or blue lines there, sadly...

And, a small opinion from linguistically handicapped person:

I like Hellboy's Library Editions. Sometimes it feels like bigger format can actually take away from the artwork (like in Absolute Sandman's "Midsummer Dream" episode with it's poor quality reproduction of line art), but Hellboy looks pretty good this way.

For me change in MM's style over the years is an interesting process to observe. It's as hard not to draw stuff as it is to draw all the (possible) details. I've never seen it done better than in Hellboy.

And - I'd like to see comic pages drawn in this recent "thin duplicated lines"-style...

Greg Anderson

10-08-2008, 11:47 AM

Whoa, Mignola actually posts! :eek:

That's truly awesome! Hopefully this post will be seen. Hey, Mike, would you even venture Hellboy to the folklore of the Caribbean, more specifically Haitian?

Kees_L

10-08-2008, 12:04 PM

Hey wow, closest I ever yet did come to a 'bellygrub' (courtesy of Todd / Abe Q). And there goes my cool... :rolleyes:.

Like Ivar_L I'm also curious about those French editions. But Ivar, what are those duplicate lines you mention? (And I remain as yet oblivious to your being handicapped linguistically, your words shine and tingle...:smile:)

Ambassador Curt

10-08-2008, 12:21 PM

InAdia...
Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I just want to make it clear that while
a lot of factors have gone into my change in art style, TIME is not one of them...pages I draw now take longer than they did 5 years ago...there is more attention to design, composition etc...
Mike Mignola

How much can the change in Hellboy's appearance be attributed to changes in your art style, or are we seeing an aging of the character.... or maybe a little of both? When I look at Hellboy now, he looks to be much more weathered than in SoD. I know he is more weathered, but I just wondered how much was style and how much was story progression. I know in the more recent flashbacks, Hellboy is drawn more like your current style, so I assume it is just your growth as an artist... but I was just curious.

MarisaSmith

10-08-2008, 12:38 PM

http://www.amazon.fr/Hellboy-troisi%C3%A8me-sp%C3%A9ciale-Mike-Mignola/dp/2847898379/ref=sr_1_37?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223485928&sr=8-37

Wow... I'm so looking for European editions when I go over there next month....
That's VERY nice looking...

Ivar_L

10-08-2008, 12:43 PM

But Ivar, what are those duplicate lines you mention?Some new sketches (sketch cards?) are drawn with thin markers, something like here: http://www.inkworkscards.com/products/hellboy/swordofstorms/sketch/sk01/hb1sk01-1.html
I just don't know how to describe it better... :-)

Nick W

10-08-2008, 12:45 PM

Some new sketches (sketch cards?) are drawn with thin markers, something like here: http://www.inkworkscards.com/products/hellboy/swordofstorms/sketch/sk01/hb1sk01-1.html
I just don't know how to describe it better... :-)

Ah, I was wondering if those were what you were talking about. Those are drawn with a ballpoint pen. It'd be pretty cool to see a story drawn like that, but it would probably take years to draw. :smile:

N

Ivar_L

10-08-2008, 01:04 PM

Wow... I'm so looking for European editions when I go over there next month....
That's VERY nice looking...This one is probably very hard to find, I happened to be in France in 2005, just when it came out. Most of the books I saw in shops had scratched or damaged covers, it wasn't easy to find one to buy...

It's strange, but it's sometimes much easier to find books from internet shops than from actual shops in Paris. There were some I tried to find but never saw this summer... (like http://www.amazon.fr/grand-si%C3%A8cle-1-Alphonse/dp/2847897631/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223491672&sr=8-2, http://www.amazon.fr/Miss-Pas-Touche-Vierge-bordel/dp/2205058118/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223491729&sr=1-2 or http://www.bdgest.com/expos.php?IdExpo=30)

Hellboy books are the same size in France as in USA, but they are hardbacks. I think most of the books are the same, only a couple short story collections are split to two books (like Box Full of Evil with special cover). I'd recommend you to look for Amazing Screw-On Head hardback. I don't have it, but it looked to me there are some short (non Hellboy) stories printed not yet available in American paperbacks. Some of them are drawn by other artists.

Kees_L

10-08-2008, 01:07 PM

Oh yeah, sketched cards inserted into the Essential VS Collection exclusive Hellboy game if I'm correct. A game totally ungettable over here, sadly.
The cool thing in these sketches or in that extra-sketchy style, is that they (again) seem to will my eyes into seeing form and volume, rather than lines.

Rather like the sketchbook material from The Island (the story's initial beginning, that was abandoned), I get blown away by that. I mean: look at that. I can see how such may take a while.:smile: My point 'though: that's also form and volume, rather than lines and 'filler'.

Like Corben pulls of with either thick paints or lots of dots, with Mignola it rather seems like drawn from clay... Or 'imaginary sculpting', which seems to sound more respectful :biggrin:.

MarisaSmith

10-08-2008, 02:06 PM

This one is probably very hard to find, I happened to be in France in 2005, just when it came out. Most of the books I saw in shops had scratched or damaged covers, it wasn't easy to find one to buy...

It's strange, but it's sometimes much easier to find books from internet shops than from actual shops in Paris. There were some I tried to find but never saw this summer... (like http://www.amazon.fr/grand-si%C3%A8cle-1-Alphonse/dp/2847897631/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223491672&sr=8-2, http://www.amazon.fr/Miss-Pas-Touche-Vierge-bordel/dp/2205058118/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223491729&sr=1-2 or http://www.bdgest.com/expos.php?IdExpo=30)

Hellboy books are the same size in France as in USA, but they are hardbacks. I think most of the books are the same, only a couple short story collections are split to two books (like Box Full of Evil with special cover). I'd recommend you to look for Amazing Screw-On Head hardback. I don't have it, but it looked to me there are some short (non Hellboy) stories printed not yet available in American paperbacks. Some of them are drawn by other artists.

Thank you very much for the additional info!
I can't wait to go prowl around European bookstores!!!:biggrin:

Kees_L

10-08-2008, 02:37 PM

Marisa (, Ivar), you can also check here, for info on all different French Hellboy editions: http://www.bedetheque.com/serie-4185-BD-Hellboy-(Delcourt).html.
There is also the 'Batman: Sanctuaire' book published by Rackham containing Gotham By Gaslight & LotDK #54, both in b&w.
However, the Hellboy books all seem to be in full color. Maybe there are also limited editions in B&W??

EDIT: Have fun in Europe, Marisa!
Don't fall for the got-any-change-trick which means: only pull out your wallet when paying attention to yourself. Eat well. In many parts of europe like France / Italy / Spain restaurant tips are already calculated in the bill. Do have your rests. O and don't mind me :biggrin::tongue:.

MarisaSmith

10-08-2008, 03:02 PM

Neil Hill

10-08-2008, 03:17 PM

How much can the change in Hellboy's appearance be attributed to changes in your art style, or are we seeing an aging of the character.... or maybe a little of both? When I look at Hellboy now, he looks to be much more weathered than in SoD. I know he is more weathered, but I just wondered how much was style and how much was story progression. I know in the more recent flashbacks, Hellboy is drawn more like your current style, so I assume it is just your growth as an artist... but I was just curious.

Good point raised. Keep in mind though that Hellboy's history is presented in a somewhat disjointed fashion. Sometimes we're seeing a glimpse into his distant past, while at other times more recent adventures. For Mike to have to keep track of how battered he'd drawn Hellboy in his 1945 adventures versus today would be a logistical headache at the very least. No, I think the weathering is more indicative of a maturation in Mike's style than any overt attempt to reflect his actual age, or how his travels have affected his physical look.

Kees_L

10-08-2008, 03:47 PM

Still a good point. Maybe not for actual style and design, the aging change of appearance I feel to be apparent very much. Hb seems more reflective (not necessarily meaning calm, mind you) over the years.
And there's something with his head, in its bald roundness, almost somewhat feeble-seeming, like he himself is completely comfortable with his looks and age. I don't know, he seems more easygoing and less 'on edge' compared to SOD.
Obviously this last bit is silly but what I try to express I feel to be based on the style-change: I think it's 'cause SOD contains more zooming, more neck and muscles (with less coat). Recent material seems to contain more distance. Right up to when big Red'll start hammering and taking no crap like ever before!! :wink: :cool:

Bertowud

10-08-2008, 04:13 PM

I have this one - http://www.amazon.fr/Hellboy-troisi%C3%A8me-sp%C3%A9ciale-Mike-Mignola/dp/2847898379/ref=sr_1_37?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223485928&sr=8-37
and it's bigger pages look just like printed from bitmap images (made from CMYK's black channel), no grays or blue lines there, sadly...

I have that one and had one of the earlier stories. But it got stolen.

pimpernel

10-08-2008, 04:41 PM

Boston Style

10-09-2008, 08:47 AM

The coloring has actually gotten better over the years. I mean I don't hate Mike but I am not buying that he is intentionally making his art less complex when he turns around and gives us amazing covers month in and month out. I think his change in style is centered mostly around time constraints if anything. Hellboy wasn't a big time license back in those days of great delays, now its the biggest internal property that they have, latest movie mad 143 million,everyone recognizes the fist; and newer readers who are used to having DC and Marvel drivel come down the pipeline every month probably aren't familiar with how things are done over at The Horse.

However, good news is that we're getting more books out of the deal so can't exactly call it a bad thing.

The Real Inadia

This is a ridiculous statement that seems more like an attempt to sound beyond the pale of a "funny" book reader. ......

Boston Style

10-09-2008, 08:48 AM

Neil Hill

10-09-2008, 09:26 AM

This is a ridiculous statement that seems more like an attempt to sound beyond the pale of a "funny" book reader. ......

What?! This sentence doesn't even make sense, nor does it accurately reflect even the slightest hint of what was quoted. Sorry, just calling them like I see's 'em.

Boston Style

10-09-2008, 10:08 AM

i just feel that this person comes across as someone above comic books, maybe Im wrong, probably am..........

hellboyone

10-09-2008, 10:22 AM

Kees_L

10-09-2008, 10:24 AM

What?! This sentence doesn't even make sense, nor does it accurately reflect even the slightest hint of what was quoted. Sorry, just calling them like I see's 'em.

Well, hopefully threadstarter Boston Style can clarify.
[EDIT: And so he did already...:redface: ]

Kees_L

10-09-2008, 10:37 AM

i just feel that this person comes across as someone above comic books, maybe Im wrong, probably am..........

Thanks for sounding civilized! A row - either now or a FUTURE one - would seem a shame, since MM posted in here.
I personally can see how you would feel some stuff to sound harsh. Or 'the person' taking rather firm stances for stating an opinion.
'The person' does seem always willing to specify or explain, but yeah, that = afterwards...
Maybe it's how Jonell puts it ('forum rules'): if you think you'd maybe offend, do try and rephrase (in advance...).

hellboyone: Much agreed. The critiques you mention and so aptly specify (in general, to say: 'persons' may not necessarily be meant) are silly, tedious and very annoying: you cannot argue with what will be ignorance.
But there are even also 'elderly' comicfans who seem to take Mignola art for that of a 'Kirby wannabe' - ever heard those? And not meant as a compliment, but rather stated as a self-proclaimed 'first age' comics-conaissoeur going: "Mignola? Hmmpfff I've seen better takes on Kirby genius..."
To which I'd almost (for not dissing Kirby) like to say: "No no, not Nintendo - I will speak up: Mig-no-la, a comics artist...!" :smile:

Jakob Westman

10-09-2008, 11:34 AM

I'd like to go on record saying that I think Mike's recent, less detailed artwork knocks my socks off. Being a graphic designer myself I can really see and appreciate the blocks, cylinders and triangles and I marvel at how well they tell a story and sell a believable person or scene. I'm also really fond of all the worderful positive/negative space panel compositions.

These last few weeks I've been working with a few projects that involve lots of icons/pictograms. And let me tell you. Less detailed graphics are NO less hard to do. Often quite the contrary.

/ Jakob

Boston Style

10-09-2008, 12:40 PM

ABSOLUTLEY!!!! If you go back and look at the animation from the 50s detail wasnt even on the radar, it was more about composition and colors. The impact that those images have are huge.

Check out Flebus or Toot Plunk Whistle and Blow on Youtube.........

I apologize for not being more clear in the beginning, its just that I feel MMs artwork has come so far over the last 15 years and I have been SO attached to both MM and the HB universe that I find a criticism like that to be uncalled for in this forum. Im not saying we should all kiss MM ass, but to blame a dislike of the artwork development on rushing the work for time, or that HB is so popular now is ridiculous.

Kees_L

10-09-2008, 01:03 PM

Cool, Boston_Style.
Wow, I feel on '50's animation' I know ziltch (z-i-l-t-c-h - sorry if my slang is turdy - turdy?) so thanks and I wìll check that out.

Juno Reactor

10-09-2008, 04:28 PM

All the old short stories in one lovely tome? Ladies and gentlemen:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/Neiteio/IdHitIt.jpg

Amazon'd. Cart'd. Checkout'd.

Waiting. ('d)

Gary_B

10-09-2008, 08:31 PM

Here we go again. It is nice to see Mike Mignola defending himself this time. I can only lend my support and agreement to the posters who have stated that Mike's less cluttered progression in art style does not mean he is spending less time and effort on his pages. I find his work incredibly sophisticated and dynamic with objects and the spaces around them being created with minimal lines and information and yet working together to create some of the most beautiful pages I have ever seen in comic book land. Surely this can't be achieved by watching the clock and cutting corners. I look forward to seeing the evolution of Mike's pages in the future too. It just gets better and better from my perspective.

gdeo

10-09-2008, 10:21 PM

I'm gonna chime in and rant a bit...in this case, less is more....from the framing of the panels to the lights and shadows...no one comes close to Mignola...tons of artists pay homage to his style but no one can duplicate it ...even to see his artwork in the rarest form(his sketchbook material) before it's inked,you can see the time and effort that goes into each panel.not to knock on any other artists styles ,but the popularity of "over rendering"...looks cool...but only a few can pull it off (for the most part it looks jumbled) i'm sure that it's labor intensive to over render...but there is something to be said about clean lines...Just like Mike's work...on the surface it might look simple to some ...but there is a rhyme and reason to every line drawn. to set the mood and tell a story through line work...that's talent..to think that some feel Mignola rushes or "phones in" his art could not be more wrong.(stepping off soapbox):tongue: :biggrin:

MarisaSmith

10-10-2008, 12:01 AM

I agree with Gary.
And while I know diddly-squat about how to do art/artwork/cartooning/drawing/etc., I do know about craft, and committing oneself to a craft. (Writing in my case)...
And I think the same holds true in this instance... Just because it looks 'simple' doesn't mean it took less time.
'Simple' is really the wrong word; in the end, what we're talking here is 'refinement.'
I've believed the change in Mr. M's style to be solely connected to the honing of his craft.
To paraphrase Gary, what we're seeing here is pure talent.
It's a continuing perfection of all the elements that go into any piece of art. And after decades of practice, devotion, and filtering, the product we are left with is exact, precise, and full of subtleties... i.e. (per Random House def. #4): refined.
It’s evocative, redolent, expressive, suggestive, reminiscent—all without having to be highly wrought, ornate, or elaborate.
I mean wow… That’s genius in my book…
There's nothing simple about it...

hollow18

10-10-2008, 10:41 AM

Wow Mike responds. Glad to hear that he continues to spend the right amount of time on his craft. And I would like to point out that Mike continues to keep a hand in the creation of his books, like covers writing etc. and comic pages when he can, instead of taking the easy way out and getting other people to do all the work, ie some of the image guys who have just abandoned their creations for the money.

So I am glad that Mike is so committed to making his art/stories.

And a little bit off topic but when it comes to design and composition those 50's animations mentioned before are exactly what i think Mike is talking about. Here is a good blog about the design of 101 Dalmatians. enjoy.
http://colorfulanimationexpressions.blogspot.com/2008/07/color-in-101-dalmatians-lengthy.html

kawfeadikt

10-11-2008, 12:05 PM

in this case, less is more....from the framing of the panels to the lights and shadows...

(snip)

on the surface it might look simple to some ...but there is a rhyme and reason to every line drawn. to set the mood and tell a story through line work...
I wasn't a horror fan at all, but Hellboy has made me one and it is Mignola's art and scripts that drew me to the genre--it's different and it pops.

In specific, his pacing works with the art, which is attractive. Here, the less is more argument makes a lot of sense--maybe the composition focuses the reader on subjects without wandering into detail. The part of horror that I like isn't the gore (which requires detail), but the suspense (which may not require as much). Maybe there's a relationship between detail and suspense versus gore?

*shrugs* But what do I know, I'm no "art"-ie. There is a great book called How Pictures Work by Molly Bang where she works through composition using nothing but primitive shapes and she somehow communicates fairly effectively with them. Again, probably stuff any art student knows, but very eye opening to the lay person.

jackups

10-11-2008, 02:36 PM

I have to be one of the youngest HB readers/posters , and if anything i prefer Mike art style now than the one before(even that i really love)
And while im not as educated on craft of drawing the work , and thoguht that goes into it, i can still tell that with HB Mike totally makes every panel count. Utterly beautiful and only improved by how simple it looks on the page ( where i bet it takes alot of effort to do so)

Jake Capps

10-19-2008, 07:10 PM

I should get my copy in the mail this Friday. Does anyone have Vol 2 yet? Let us hear about it.

Limited edition

10-19-2008, 07:31 PM

I still haven't read the first one!
I'll read it tonight:biggrin:

Yeh right, i still haven't read it:mad:

gdeo

10-19-2008, 08:53 PM

I should get my copy in the mail this Friday. Does anyone have Vol 2 yet? Let us hear about it.
kicks a$$...the sketchbook stuff is to die for...and to see these classics in this size and format are the best!!!:biggrin:

patrick r

10-19-2008, 09:37 PM

kicks a$$...the sketchbook stuff is to die for...and to see these classics in this size and format are the best!!!:biggrin:
Agreed! On my second "wow" my wife clarified that I really had read the stories before. "Yes, I've read them a thousand times, but WOW!"

Tonight I was playing with my one year old in our room and he started pointing and grunting. I couldn't figure out what he was so interested in. I picked him up and took him over to where he was pointing and he was interested in the skulls at the top of the hardcover Art of Hellboy and the two Library Editions. He kept pointing and smiling. Kid's got good taste already.

gdeo

10-19-2008, 10:36 PM

good taste indeed ,sir!:biggrin:
yet another hellboy reader for a new generation!:biggrin:

InAdia

10-20-2008, 09:10 PM

i just feel that this person comes across as someone above comic books, maybe Im wrong, probably am..........

Not above comics, in fact I am an avid fan of them. I do however, have a huge problem with the practices at Marvel and DC and their exploitative capitalistic approach to the industry, that and most of what they have put out over the years have been terribly contrived, convoluted, and seemingly childish. You can also marry that with a deep rooted disgust for most superhero books, aside from my beloved Daredevil.:smile: These remarks of course exclude most of the material put out on both Vertigo and Epic as some of my favorite series have come from each. When its all said and done I prefer to stick to the indies; TMNT, Love and Rockets, Strangers in Paradise, American Splendor, Persepolis, Maus, Baker Street, D.T.W.F., Black Hole, Local,Tank Girl, Gloomcookie, Berlin and almost anything by Ted McKeever; to name a few.

The Real Inadia

InAdia

10-20-2008, 09:20 PM

I can't imagine making such comments. With respect, it's not about preference, it's about ignorance. I've heard very similar comments about the perceived simplicity of Mike's artwork for years, usually from very young comic book fans who feel that tons of detail equals great art. If it were that simple, anyone could do it. And it's obvious when you see the horrible fake artwork that shows up on eBay now and then that it's not that easy. I've been drawing for near 30 years and even copying Mike's simplest panels leaves me frustrated.

Ted McKeever is my favorite artist in the industry so this obviously not a matter of ignorance. Perhaps it is wise to not trounce about boasting your OPINION as FACT. When it comes to art I am all for alternate styles, as I personally feel it is more important to be signature than disgustingly talented. It is in fact a matter of preference and I prefer the older style, nothing wrong with that, I still love the character to death.

The Real Inadia

hellboyone

10-20-2008, 11:25 PM

Ted McKeever is my favorite artist in the industry so this obviously not a matter of ignorance. Perhaps it is wise to not trounce about boasting your OPINION as FACT. When it comes to art I am all for alternate styles, as I personally feel it is more important to be signature than disgustingly talented. It is in fact a matter of preference and I prefer the older style, nothing wrong with that, I still love the character to death.

I didn't say it was a fact. It's also my opinion and I stand by it.

I had a long post here replying to you, but with respect to Jonell, I'll bow out.

InAdia

10-21-2008, 04:01 AM

I didn't say it was a fact. It's also my opinion and I stand by it.

I had a long post here replying to you, but with respect to Jonell, I'll bow out.

Wasn't stated as an opinion mate, can't get on a bird for taking slight offense.

The Real Inadia

jnapper

10-21-2008, 11:22 AM

Hi everyone-- the thread will reopen in a week-- on October 28th-- when (hopefully) I have more brain-power.
(I have set an email reminder on the 28th to myself to reopen it.)

Thanks and take care.

Jankenstein

11-02-2008, 05:46 PM

I absolutely LOVE seeing the stories in an oversized hardcover tome with nice production values.

I simply do not understand the appeal of a small digest sized format that's currently popular with manga publishers. I suppose that's fine if you're a cash-strapped reader that needs to fit your book in a pack on a crowded subway train, or you have intentions of throwing it away later. I really did NOT like Dark Horse's Lone Wolf and Cub reprints for that very reason.

Once I saw European album format books, there's simply no going back.

Jake Capps

11-02-2008, 06:12 PM

Once I saw European album format books, there's simply no going back.

That reminds me. Do we have anyone that lives in France on the board?

Rachel Edidin

11-03-2008, 10:48 AM

Not above comics, in fact I am an avid fan of them. I do however, have a huge problem with the practices at Marvel and DC and their exploitative capitalistic approach to the industry...

Waitaminute... based on ownership of the means of production--in this case, intellectual properties--don't Marvel and DC operate on an economic model closer to communism than capitalism?

(And yes, I do get what you mean, but monday mornings make me pedantic and silly. :wink: )

Neil Hill

11-03-2008, 03:35 PM

Waitaminute... based on ownership of the means of production--in this case, intellectual properties--don't Marvel and DC operate on an economic model closer to communism than capitalism?

LOL...after a quick head scratch and a thought, you may be onto something, Rachel! Do you mean, the intellectual property remains property of "the state", and that creators working for those companies do not retain the rights to their creations? In that sense, then yes, communism it be. I'm fairly certain the intent of the statement you questioned was more in regards to the capitalist pursuit of those companies, and their egregious money grabs almost in spite of the creators which have variously ensured their market position through their vast imaginations.

P.S.- I know you already realize the original intent, Rachel, so please pardon the way I worded my ending to the above paragraph.

Jankenstein

11-03-2008, 10:17 PM

Neil Hill

11-05-2008, 08:10 AM

Does that mean DC's going to publish Red Lantern instead? :wink:

Aren't they publishing that book right now? I think if you check the stands, you'll find it. I realize it's not the type of Red that you're referring to, but in an ironic twist of fate, they are currently publishing a book about Red Lanterns! :smile: