View Full Version : Yep, Punks Dead
Dead as a freaking doornail I would have to say.
Johnny Rotten: Butter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrRccqnCb3U)
jesse_custer
10-03-2008, 12:05 PM
I cannot believe this is real.
(Which makes me all the more glad that punk potential can reside within any musician.)
Agent Helix
10-03-2008, 12:26 PM
I can. I mean, it's friggin' Johnny Rotten. Of course he's going to sell out for butter.
howyadoin
10-03-2008, 12:34 PM
I miss the days when selling out was a bad thing.
Agent Helix
10-03-2008, 12:45 PM
Again, it surprises me that people would be surprised about any member of the Sex Pistols selling out.
howyadoin
10-03-2008, 12:50 PM
Again, it surprises me that people would be surprised about any member of the Sex Pistols selling out."Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
Agent Helix
10-03-2008, 12:53 PM
If Sid had survived, he'd probably have his own line of polo shirts.
jesse_custer
10-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Again, it surprises me that people would be surprised about any member of the Sex Pistols selling out.
Did you hear about the no-show at the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame recently?
Agent Helix
10-03-2008, 01:05 PM
Yeah, and I really don't think much of it. Or them, honestly. I never have, and I never will.
Yeah, and I really don't think much of it. Or them, honestly. I never have, and I never will.
Love them or hate them, the Sex Pistols put out one of the very best, most perfect albums in rock history.
But still, butter?
twilight
10-03-2008, 01:28 PM
I can't believe it's not anarchy.
-Twi
Agent Helix
10-03-2008, 01:34 PM
Love them or hate them, the Sex Pistols put out one of the very best, most perfect albums in rock history.
I won't deny it was great... but I still hate them.
leonaozaki
10-03-2008, 02:30 PM
Well, if you want to get technical about it, the Sex Pistols sold out when they signed to a major label. (Not that I think they did. Sell out, that is.)
What I mean is, everybody does this. The Beatles made plenty of money hawking Beatles wigs and boots; Bob Dylan has sold his songs for commercials; Lou Reed pimped out for American Express.
Does it affect the quality of the music? That's the only litmus test I care about. In that sense Rod Stewart and Metallica sold out (although Death Magnetic righted Metallica), and since the Pistols aren't making music any more I can't see that this matters.
rob
Infra-Man
10-03-2008, 03:42 PM
I'm waiting for him to do a Taco Bell commercial a la Johnny Cash.
/get pissed and enjoy a chalupa
Adam C
10-03-2008, 07:35 PM
Does it affect the quality of the music? That's the only litmus test I care about. In that sense Rod Stewart and Metallica sold out (although Death Magnetic righted Metallica), and since the Pistols aren't making music any more I can't see that this matters.
Quick question, what's the difference between the Sex Pistols and the Clash?
Answer: the Clash merely licensed their songs out for commercials whereas Rotten had the guts to actually appear in one.
It's nice that punk* made a lot of noise about upturning the music industry. It motivated a lot of people in ways that gave us the rock underground today and gave voice to some unique artists. Yet none of that rhetoric was very realistic and it's been dead a long time now. Much like Mod. Personally I'd "sell out" in a heart beat if I could make a huge wad of cash off a few hours of work.
* Or British punk and American hardcore did; ironically the New York scene that gave punk it's name never cared about anything but bringing back the three-minute rock song...and making wads of cash in the process...well unless you were Suicide or Pere Ubu.
mattx110
10-03-2008, 09:26 PM
Well, if you want to get technical about it, the Sex Pistols sold out when they signed to a major label. (Not that I think they did. Sell out, that is.)
What I mean is, everybody does this. The Beatles made plenty of money hawking Beatles wigs and boots; Bob Dylan has sold his songs for commercials; Lou Reed pimped out for American Express.
Does it affect the quality of the music? That's the only litmus test I care about. In that sense Rod Stewart and Metallica sold out (although Death Magnetic righted Metallica), and since the Pistols aren't making music any more I can't see that this matters.
rob
Bob Dylan sold out for Victoria's Secret. We can accept that. Dairy products are a different matter. Wrong kind of breasts.
Dr. Ghost
10-03-2008, 11:37 PM
Dead as a freaking doornail I would have to say.
Johnny Rotten: Butter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrRccqnCb3U)
meh, he always seemed like a fake douche, so who cares.
different person, same idea:
http://www.mitchclem.com/nothingnice/211/
The Confessor
10-04-2008, 08:43 AM
I miss the days when selling out was a bad thing.
I concur, heartily my friend.
*sigh* This is yet another complete betrayle of everything the Sex Pistols originally stood for.
See my comments here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=239298) for more on this subject.
Adam C
10-04-2008, 10:34 AM
different person, same idea:
http://www.mitchclem.com/nothingnice/211/
Not really. Whatever your opinions of Rotten, he did offer a distinct voice at the right time which inspired countless musical figures. Yet Sid has become a totemic figure even though he quite literally contributed nothing to punk. (Yet he was apparently a very sincere rebel, who had no clue what he was rebelling against or why.)
howyadoin
10-04-2008, 01:50 PM
Yet Sid has become a totemic figure even though he quite literally contributed nothing to punk.Nothing musical, maybe. He's pretty much British punk's Christ figure, though.
Brad Barton
10-04-2008, 02:10 PM
That's Johnny Rotten? Looked like "Mr. Weasley" from the Harry Potter films.
dan bailey
10-04-2008, 02:22 PM
Yet Sid has become a totemic figure even though he quite literally contributed nothing to punk.
Hey, now -- pogo dancing didn't invent itself, y'know.
howyadoin
10-04-2008, 02:31 PM
That's Johnny Rotten? Looked like "Mr. Weasley" from the Harry Potter films.Maybe that's just one more source that Rowling stole her ideas from.
Not really. Whatever your opinions of Rotten, he did offer a distinct voice at the right time which inspired countless musical figures. Yet Sid has become a totemic figure even though he quite literally contributed nothing to punk. (Yet he was apparently a very sincere rebel, who had no clue what he was rebelling against or why.)
Yeah Sid was not much of a musician, that's for sure. And yet, oddly enough he is not only a Sex Pistol, but also one of the founding members of Siouxie and the Banshees.
Which I guess just shows that sometimes it helps to have friends in the right places..
I will say this in Sid’s favor though his two Eddie Cochran covers and of course My Way all from the Swindle, hold up marvelously well.
Adam C
10-04-2008, 08:02 PM
Nothing musical, maybe. He's pretty much British punk's Christ figure, though.
I'm not even sure about that. Sure second wave Brit-punk bands GBH and the Exploited have celebrated him, but universally the comments from the first wave of British boil down to some variation "nice kid, shame he was so dumb and got into heroin." From what I know he seems to have a lot more followers in American punk (and not just Darby Crash and G.G. Allin, but Lars Frederiksen, Benji Madden, and even Duff McKagan apparently).
From what I know he seems to have a lot more followers in American punk (and not just Darby Crash and G.G. Allin, but Lars Frederiksen, Benji Madden, and even Duff McKagan apparently).
You have a very odd definition of Punk.
Okay, maybe Darby but Benji Madden and Duff McKagen?
That's just sad.
Adam C
10-05-2008, 12:51 PM
You have a very odd definition of Punk.
Okay, maybe Darby but Benji Madden and Duff McKagen?
That's just sad.
Well despite failing to make the distinction I am aware that Duff is simply hard rock. As for Good Charlotte, they were a crappy punk band before they were a...well I guess they're Emo now.
More or less my point (not clearly made I guess) is that far from seemingly being Brit-punk's Christ figure, Sid seems to get a lot more praise from punks or people influenced by punk in the United States. Not very surprising when you consider that the States' original exposure to the Pistols was their highly publicized, disasterous final tour whereas in Britain the Pistols inspired a whole whack of bands who saw them playing live back when Matlock was in the band. (Granted I don't know if the Exploited or GBH's praise of Sid is indicative of him having greater status among the Oi! and British hardcore crowd.)
"Maybe Darby?" The Germs weren't a punk band?
Adam C
10-05-2008, 12:57 PM
Maybe that's just one more source that Rowling stole her ideas from.
Can't be. Those books would be much more entertaining if Arthur Weasley was based on Johnny Rotten.
GRANT!
10-05-2008, 01:01 PM
Dead as a freaking doornail I would have to say.
Johnny Rotten: Butter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrRccqnCb3U)
It's been dead for a while. This is just corpse fucking.
"Maybe Darby?" The Germs weren't a punk band?
Yes, to be fair, the Germs were a Punk band.
They just weren't a very good one.
Adam C
10-05-2008, 01:27 PM
Yes, to be fair, the Germs were a Punk band.
They just weren't a very good one.
Well there we go, I just don't hold punk in enough awe anymore.
leonaozaki
10-05-2008, 01:44 PM
McKagan was in the Fastbacks, a pretty good Seattle punk band.
rob
Buried Alien
10-05-2008, 01:47 PM
I thought it was pretty damn funny.
Only Nixon could go to China, and only Johnny Rotten could shill for British butter.
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
Well there we go, I just don't hold punk in enough awe anymore.
Honestly I never really bought into the whole "Punk" label in the first place for most bands, including the Sex Pistols.
As a label it’s been badly used over the years and at times I have heard it applied to bands as mainstream as The Cars and The Police.
But I will say that I definitely still have a deep affection for that late 70’s British Invasion that brought us bands like the Pistols, the Clash and Elvis Costello, whatever label we throw on it.
Adam C
10-05-2008, 01:53 PM
I thought it was pretty damn funny.
Only Nixon could go to China, and only Johnny Rotten could shill for British butter.
Hey now! He's merely shilling for butter. You make it sound like he's promoting English cooking in general! :tongue:
(Though as Paul McEnery said, there are now more genuine Sex Pistols' fans than genuine Monarchists, so perhaps they really are a traditional British institution.)
Lupek
10-05-2008, 01:58 PM
When using your Sex Pistols butter, make sure you also use your Ramones condoms (http://mog.com/Charley_Rogulewski/blog_post/145235).
http://www2.mog.com/images/users/0000/0009/8850/images/1203438462.png
Wait...that didn't sound right.
Adam C
10-05-2008, 02:00 PM
When using your Sex Pistols butter, make sure you also use your Ramones condoms (http://mog.com/Charley_Rogulewski/blog_post/145235).
http://www2.mog.com/images/users/0000/0009/8850/images/1203438462.png
Wait...that didn't sound right.
You've been watching Last Tango in Paris haven't you?
Lupek
10-05-2008, 02:04 PM
You've been watching Last Tango in Paris haven't you.
Just that scene.
In a loop.
What a thrill ride that film was huh?
howyadoin
10-05-2008, 02:06 PM
You have a very odd definition of Punk.
Okay, maybe Darby but Benji Madden and Duff McKagen?
That's just sad.
McKagan was in the Fastbacks, a pretty good Seattle punk band. From what I recall he was in dozens of punk bands pre-GN'R.
leonaozaki
10-05-2008, 02:24 PM
From what I recall he was in dozens of punk bands pre-GN'R.
I think that you're right, but the Fastbacks were the biggest, from what I remember.
rob
Yes, to be fair, the Germs were a Punk band.
They just weren't a very good one.
It may be because i was born in 1983, and punk, if not dead, was already well on it's way to dying, but my head starts to hurt when people talk about what makes a good punk band.
I guess...like, London Calling was a really good album, and the clash were a punk band, but it wasn't a punk album.
So does that mean they were a good punk band, or does the punk band...
Oh to hell with it.
Grant was right, punk has been dead, it's few remaining legends are selling butter, and the current bands it influenced sell shitty pop rock and lame power balads while occasionaly writing a song that passes the bare minimum to be considered political, while at the same time they are putting out albums that challenge the status quo when the status quo is to make albums that challenge the status quo. Which means they are maintaining the status quo, which means their music is just kinda irrelevant and samey.
I was trying to think of the closest thing to a real punk band that's popped up since i was a kid, all i could think was like propagandhi, maybe? But last time i heard them they sounded a bit metalish.
Maybe a band should play some power chords and sing an anti-thatcher song, they might be able to draw in the old school punks with nostaligia, and it would be kinda funny.
Buried Alien
10-05-2008, 02:48 PM
Hey now! He's merely shilling for butter. You make it sound like he's promoting English cooking in general! :tongue:
English cooking is underrated, if only because nobody has anything good to say about it.
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
Adam C
10-05-2008, 02:54 PM
I guess...like, London Calling was a really good album, and the clash were a punk band, but it wasn't a punk album.
So does that mean they were a good punk band, or does the punk band...
They made punk music, just on their first two albums before London Calling...like these. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZhsTPaz8J0)
...while occasionaly writing a song that passes the bare minimum to be considered political...
The funny part is that not that many of the first wave punk bands wrote political songs. Hell the Buzzcocks mostly wrote songs focusing on very traditional themes of heart-break, and those were all quite brilliant.
I was trying to think of the closest thing to a real punk band that's popped up since i was a kid...
Fugazi, the Exploding Hearts, Against Me!...
zombie
10-05-2008, 02:57 PM
Fugazi, the Exploding Hearts, Against Me!...
I once told a friend of mine that Fugazi was a punk band, and she looked at me like I was crazy. Playing a song for her didn't help.
Adam C
10-05-2008, 02:59 PM
I once told a friend of mine that Fugazi was a punk band, and she looked at me like I was crazy. Playing a song for her didn't help.
What's her standard for punk then? Sham 69?
zombie
10-05-2008, 03:08 PM
What's her standard for punk then? Sham 69?
Yeah, I guess. Dirty, street punk type stuff.
howyadoin
10-05-2008, 04:12 PM
I'm not even sure about that. Sure second wave Brit-punk bands GBH and the Exploited have celebrated him, but universally the comments from the first wave of British boil down to some variation "nice kid, shame he was so dumb and got into heroin."I'm just goin' by the way things looked in the early 80s, to be honest. And I should be more specific; I wasn't talking about other bands' opinion of him, just the fans at the time.
Adam C
10-05-2008, 04:16 PM
I'm just goin' by the way things looked in the early 80s, to be honest. And I should be more specific; I wasn't talking about other bands' opinion of him, just the fans at the time.
Ahhhhh... Well there we have the limits of my knowledge, wherein most of my perspective of punk outside of the records is the histories written on it and other people's interviews with musicians from the scene rather than much first-hand participation.
Adam C
10-05-2008, 04:20 PM
Yeah, I guess. Dirty, street punk type stuff.
I wonder how'd she react to the Stooges then. I men they are the proto-type of punk, but their music does not exactly fit the standard punk template (particularly in terms of tempo and Ron Asheton's use of the wah pedal which gives their music a weirder textural quality than most punk).
DrewTheXenocide
10-05-2008, 04:27 PM
Fugazi, the Exploding Hearts, Against Me!...
Leftover Crack, Defiance Ohio, Be Your Own Pet, Ted Leo and the Pharmacists, This Bike is a Pipe Bomb, Bomb the Music Industry!, Japanther, etc.
Punk's not dead. It just expanded.
Adam C
10-05-2008, 04:31 PM
Leftover Crack, Defiance Ohio, Be Your Own Pet, Ted Leo and the Pharmacists, This Bike is a Pipe Bomb, Bomb the Music Industry!, Japanther, etc.
Punk's not dead. It just expanded.
To be fair Ted Leo and the Pharmacists only fall into "punk" territory somewhat tenuously with their strong power pop and hard rock tendencies...
...no that they wouldn't be the perfect band for any lover of classic punk, new wave, and just plain damn fine song-craft.
zombie
10-05-2008, 04:47 PM
This Bike is a Pipe Bomb
What a great name. I need to hear this band.
zombie
10-05-2008, 04:50 PM
I wonder how'd she react to the Stooges then. I men they are the proto-type of punk, but their music does not exactly fit the standard punk template (particularly in terms of tempo and Ron Asheton's use of the wah pedal which gives their music a weirder textural quality than most punk).
I think I once tried to talk to her about it but it didn't go well and I gave up. She's more of a metalhead than anything so she didn't really care about learning or arguing about punk.
Adam C
10-05-2008, 04:53 PM
I think I once tried to talk to her about it but it didn't go well and I gave up. She's more of a metalhead than anything so she didn't really care about learning or arguing about punk.
Oh...no great loss then. She was clearly doomed to begin with.
twilight
10-05-2008, 09:11 PM
Well y'know it's a musical genre and thus can never die.
Sure it might not be going anywhere now and Johnny Rotten's selling butter but that doesn't mean that London Calling,Never Mind The Bollocks,Blank Generation,L.A.M.F,*insert whatever you like here* were never recorded.
-Twi
jdwrocks
10-05-2008, 10:05 PM
Let's face it. Punk was an era. Just like Disco, which probably had as much to do for spawning punk as anything else was an era. The protest music of the 60's was an era. Punk is dead, face the facts. And this is an admission from someone who grew up at the turn of the decade to the 80's. We can all name bands who might march under the "punkrock" banner. Musically they might be hardcore, or postpunk, or protest rock, or whatever. Punk is dead. It died over 20 years ago.
Spike-X
10-06-2008, 12:31 AM
As a label it’s been badly used over the years and at times I have heard it applied to bands as mainstream as The Cars and The Police.
The Cars? Punk?
*shakes head*
That's as bad as this one shop I was in years ago, that had Matchbox 20 in the 'Alternative' section.
Walked right out, never went back.
What's her standard for punk then? Sham 69?
in my own standard for judging the things that make up punk, Fugazi meets the "Tends to be shit" requirement.
ZombieHavoc
10-06-2008, 06:53 AM
You have a very odd definition of Punk.
Okay, maybe Darby but Benji Madden and Duff McKagen?
That's just sad.
Duff was a punk kid that joined GNR.
And I'd also say that 95%, at least, of metal and "hair metal" dudes from the 80's listed to at least the Sex Pistols. But if the t-shirts they wore and covers they played are any indication, they also rocked to The Misfits, The Damned, Dead Boys, The Stooges, etc.
Sure that doesn't make them "punk", per se, but the idol worship is there, which was the point.
jesse_custer
10-06-2008, 07:19 AM
Yeah, and I really don't think much of it. Or them, honestly. I never have, and I never will.
Nor do I think you should. But I would have been less surprised by Rotten and butter if the no-show had not been so recent.
Adam C
10-06-2008, 07:19 AM
And I'd also say that 95%, at least, of metal and "hair metal" dudes from the 80's listed to at least the Sex Pistols. But if the t-shirts they wore and covers they played are any indication, they also rocked to The Misfits, The Damned, Dead Boys, The Stooges, etc.
Examples? I understand it as far as speed and thrash metal go, but hair metal?
Romero
10-06-2008, 07:46 AM
Eh, I'm old enough to remember hair metal. While those guys may have been listening to some punk rock, of course it wasn't necessarily seeping into the music they were making. And sometimes you just wear a t-shirt because it fits a cool or rebellious image.
And take away all the "punk" trappings, and "Never Mind the Bullocks" is a pretty good rock record.
Perhaps one of the "punkest" things about Fugazi is that they really did exactly what they wanted to do with their music, from the writing/recording down to the distribution and pricing, for everything. That type of independence is what a lot of punk bands want to claim, but Fugazi could do it. Granted, they were popular enough to make it viable for them, but they could probably have charged more money for shows/merch, but they stuck to their guns. I paid $5 to see Fugazi and I got a real show out of it.
AlistairCrane
10-06-2008, 09:08 AM
Dude, punk died in the late 70s. Real punk, that is.
ZombieHavoc
10-06-2008, 01:08 PM
Examples? I understand it as far as speed and thrash metal go, but hair metal?
Well, right off the bat, without thinking very hard, both Poison and Motley Crue covered the Sex Pistols, "God Save the Queen" and "Anarchy in the UK", respectively.
And GNR covered all of the bands that I listed above, plus several other punk and non-punk tunes on The Spaghetti Incident.
Pretty Boy Floyd covered several Ramones songs, and their guitar player, Kristy Majors, recorded a solo record of *only* Ramones songs, and he recorded a cover of Bad Religion's "21st Century Digital Boy".
Skid Row also covered "Psycho Therapy"
My point wasn't that hair metal had anything to do with punk, but that those guys, alot of them, were teenagers in the late 70's and early 80's. So alongside Judas Priest, Boston, Deep Purple, and Aerosmith, they were listening to The Ramones, The Damned, and The Sex Pistols.
ZombieHavoc
10-06-2008, 01:39 PM
Oh, and here's a closer tie.
There was a band in the late 80's/early 90's called Junkyard...a bluesier kind of hair metal/hard rock..they had a non-hit called "Hollywood." Anyway, Brian Baker (of Minor Threat, Dag Nasty, Bad Religion fame) played guitar for them, and so did Chris Gates of Big Boys.
So there's that.
howyadoin
10-06-2008, 02:50 PM
Ahhhhh... Well there we have the limits of my knowledge, wherein most of my perspective of punk outside of the records is the histories written on it and other people's interviews with musicians from the scene rather than much first-hand participation.One of the drawbacks to looking at this stuff from a scholarly perspective, I guess.
Dude, punk died in the late 70s. Real punk, that is.What, you don't think Britney is punk?
J. Robb
10-06-2008, 03:14 PM
Dude, punk died in the late 70s. Real punk, that is.
"Punk" as a media trend, that is.
"Punk" as the more raw, high energy rock and roll was around before the 70s and is still around today.
Adam C
10-06-2008, 07:08 PM
What, you don't think Britney is punk?
Dude, she's totally the Sid Vicious of her generation!
A...lex23
10-06-2008, 07:49 PM
Quick question, what's the difference between the Sex Pistols and the Clash?
Answer: the Clash merely licensed their songs out for commercials whereas Rotten had the guts to actually appear in one.
It's nice that punk* made a lot of noise about upturning the music industry. It motivated a lot of people in ways that gave us the rock underground today and gave voice to some unique artists. Yet none of that rhetoric was very realistic and it's been dead a long time now. Much like Mod. Personally I'd "sell out" in a heart beat if I could make a huge wad of cash off a few hours of work.
* Or British punk and American hardcore did; ironically the New York scene that gave punk it's name never cared about anything but bringing back the three-minute rock song...and making wads of cash in the process...well unless you were Suicide or Pere Ubu.
The idea of punk was that it wasn't about the money it was about people standing up for what they believed in, wether it lead to change or death... money was supposed to be a means of making ones voice louder not to gain or maintain wealth. Anyone who would sell their beliefs for personal profit, has lost freedom and their honor.
DrewTheXenocide
10-06-2008, 10:05 PM
The idea of punk was that it wasn't about the money it was about people standing up for what they believed in, wether it lead to change or death... money was supposed to be a means of making ones voice louder not to gain or maintain wealth. Anyone who would sell their beliefs for personal profit, has lost freedom and their honor.
Nowadays, though, with the internet and whatnot, doing the whole major label route to "get your name out" seems kind of unnecessary. Which is why I dig bands like Les Savy Fav. "Missing out on cashing in for over a decade."
That's not to say that major label = suck, but when DIYing it is so easy now, why not?
I realize now that we're talking about Clash songs being in commercials, and not them being signed to Epic, so I guess it's a moot point.
Adam C
10-06-2008, 10:45 PM
The idea of punk was that it wasn't about the money it was about people standing up for what they believed in, wether it lead to change or death... money was supposed to be a means of making ones voice louder not to gain or maintain wealth. Anyone who would sell their beliefs for personal profit, has lost freedom and their honor.
Further trying to take the hammer to conventional wisdom...
I'd argue that punk wasn't about standing up for what you believed in. (At least not originally.) It was about believing that despite all odds or lack of talent, you could do this pop music thing too. It was like that from the moment Iggy saw a stone-drunk Jim Morrison give a craptacular performance at the University of Michigan and realising these guys had a hit record playing on the radio. That's the impetus that drove Steve Jones and Paul Cook to convince a skeezy clothing store owner with half-backed anarchist/Situationist ideas floating through his head to manage their band. It's what drove Mick Jones to become a musician even though his original models were Keith Richards, David Bowie, and Mott the Hoople. And its essentially what Washington hardcore was about once Ian Mackaye saw the Cramps.
"Standing up for what you believed in" was only grandfathered in when punk hit Britain, because above all the British were poor, fashion conscious, and class conscious. And even then arguably it was the Clash who pushed that nonsense more than anyone with their well-intentioned if bizarrely inconsistent political idealism. (And even then out of the first wave only the Fall lived up to it.)
...money was supposed to be a means of making ones voice louder not to gain or maintain wealth. Anyone who would sell their beliefs for personal profit, has lost freedom and their honor.
But what does selling out their beliefs for personal profit even mean? I can understand that as it applies to the Rod Stewarts and Metallicas of the world. On the other hand when "living up to your ideals" helped put you into perpetual hock to the record company for much of your band's career, editing down your guitarist's projected magnum opus for the sake of creating a record to crack the American market seems like a pretty damn appealing option. (Which was how Combat Rock was borne.)
Adam C
10-06-2008, 10:47 PM
Well, right off the bat, without thinking very hard, both Poison and Motley Crue covered the Sex Pistols, "God Save the Queen" and "Anarchy in the UK", respectively.
And GNR covered all of the bands that I listed above, plus several other punk and non-punk tunes on The Spaghetti Incident.
Pretty Boy Floyd covered several Ramones songs, and their guitar player, Kristy Majors, recorded a solo record of *only* Ramones songs, and he recorded a cover of Bad Religion's "21st Century Digital Boy".
Skid Row also covered "Psycho Therapy"
Well there ya' go. Learn something new everyday.
*Begins sobbing in pain that Poison and Motley Crue butchered the Sex Pistols' two greatest anthems*
howyadoin
10-06-2008, 11:16 PM
Well there ya' go. Learn something new everyday.
*Begins sobbing in pain that Poison and Motley Crue butchered the Sex Pistols' two greatest anthems*The Crüe cover is completely worthless. And kind of an odd thing to cover just after Megadeth did a much heavier version.
ZombieHavoc
10-07-2008, 06:38 AM
The Crüe cover is completely worthless. And kind of an odd thing to cover just after Megadeth did a much heavier version.
I quite like the Crue version, but that Megadeth cover was what got me into punk. I got the tape of So Far, So Good...So What when I was in 7th grade, and I thought that cover ruled. I had also seen Slash wearing a Sex Pistols shirt in pictures, so I decided to buy Nevermind the Bollocks soon thereafter when I was at the mall.
I still loved metal (and "hair metal"), but now I had this whole new entity in my life.
Megadeth also did a quite good cover of "Problems" as well.
Leftover Crack, Defiance Ohio, Be Your Own Pet, Ted Leo and the Pharmacists, This Bike is a Pipe Bomb, Bomb the Music Industry!, Japanther, etc.
Punk's not dead. It just expanded.
Punks long dead and rotted in its grave.
Would be Punk poseurs on the other hand still thrive.
But it’s sort of like watching some of the high school kids we have at the school, walking around with tall Mohawks and Dead Kennedy shirts, but no real understanding of the era that punk came out of.
Modern punk is as big a nostalgia act as Beatlemania and the Pink Floyd Laser light show.
The idea of punk was that it wasn't about the money it was about people standing up for what they believed in, wether it lead to change or death... money was supposed to be a means of making ones voice louder not to gain or maintain wealth. Anyone who would sell their beliefs for personal profit, has lost freedom and their honor.
No, sorry, try again.
With the very obvious exception of the Clash the vast majority of legitimate Punk bands were happily hoping to become totally rich and more than a few of them even suceeded.
The trick was to get rich and not "sell out".
Whatever that means anyway.
Rattlehead
10-08-2008, 11:04 PM
I always felt the Sex Pistols were pretty phoney anyways. Sure, Sid was a genuine wild man, but damn, it lead to him murdering his girlfriend. The rest of them were always out to make a buck, and I always saw the irony they were going for when they named an album "Filthy Lucre." Sure, the money may be filthy, but you still need it to buy this commercial product. I've also felt that Johnny Rotten is a downright disingenuos person who totally digs his place in the spotlight, and has always been willing to play the "establishment" game to further whatever commercial endeavor he may be involved with.
Now, there's nothing inherently wrong about any of these things, but it's all pretty damn "anti-PunK" at the end of the day.
DrewTheXenocide
10-09-2008, 12:35 AM
Punks long dead and rotted in its grave.
Would be Punk poseurs on the other hand still thrive.
But it’s sort of like watching some of the high school kids we have at the school, walking around with tall Mohawks and Dead Kennedy shirts, but no real understanding of the era that punk came out of.
Modern punk is as big a nostalgia act as Beatlemania and the Pink Floyd Laser light show.
What exactly is it about modern punk bands that make them "not as punk" as older punk? I'm fairly certain that a good chunk of the bands I mentioned are music fans, and thus understand where punk came from.
What exactly is it about modern punk bands that make them "not as punk" as older punk? I'm fairly certain that a good chunk of the bands I mentioned are music fans, and thus understand where punk came from.
They are Punk bands in the same way that Sha-Na-Na was a 50's Do-Wop band.
What they are peddling is nostalgia and artificial rebellion.
Nothing wrong with that, but I am one of those who believes that Punk was an era as much as it was a style.
DrewTheXenocide
10-09-2008, 01:06 AM
They are Punk bands in the same way that Sha-Na-Na was a 50's Do-Wop band.
What they are peddling is nostalgia and artificial rebellion.
Nothing wrong with that, but I am one of those who believes that Punk was an era as much as it was a style.
When do you think it was that Punk stopped being real and became nostalgia? No matter when it was, there was probably some band, huge in the underground at the time, doing real stuff with punk music.
Adam C
10-09-2008, 07:16 AM
I always felt the Sex Pistols were pretty phoney anyways. Sure, Sid was a genuine wild man, but damn, it lead to him murdering his girlfriend.
Depends on how you look at it. Sid did a lot of weird things based on his ideas about what it meant to be punk, such as slicing his arm open in front of a trucker, bleeding into a bowl of cereal, and eating it. However, according to his contemporaries in the British punk scene, Sid wasn't really a nasty thug. He was just a sad-sack loser that tried to be one. (John Lydon's friend John Worble/Jah Wobble on the other hand was...and he actually learned how to play bass. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x7OLI51HlQ)) Immediately that infamous picture of him flashing his nether parts was taken, Sid soon embarrassingly tucked it back into his pants. I also find it telling that when the Pistols played a concert for the children of strikers, the rest of the Pistols loved it, but Sid hated it because the children weren't threatened by his act. In fact they thought he was a clown.
howyadoin
10-09-2008, 01:35 PM
When do you think it was that Punk stopped being real and became nostalgia?I'm tempted to say that it was when Billy Idol sang his first note.
jdwrocks
10-09-2008, 01:45 PM
I'm tempted to say that it was when Billy Idol sang his first note.
Yet it can be argued Billy Idol's Band Generation X was a punk band. It had some glam elements but Gen X can definitely be considered a punk band when they were around the turn of the decade 70-80's
howyadoin
10-09-2008, 01:54 PM
Yet it can be argued Billy Idol's Band Generation X was a punk band. It had some glam elements but Gen X can definitely be considered a punk band when they were around the turn of the decade 70-80'sAs you might've already guessed, I disagree.
When do you think it was that Punk stopped being real and became nostalgia? No matter when it was, there was probably some band, huge in the underground at the time, doing real stuff with punk music.
Punk petered out sometime around 1982, pretty much around the time the Clash broke-up and Black Flag got a recording contract.
40footwolf
10-09-2008, 04:33 PM
In the words of Doctor David Thorpe:
"Once the lead singer of Punk’s first prefab boy-band, The Sex Pistols, Johnny Rotten now divides his time between trying to get on television and getting on television and embarrassing himself. If you don’t automatically roll your eyes at every single thing that comes out of Johnny Rotten’s mouth, then there is something drastically wrong with your eyeball muscles and you should see a professional face doctor right away. While the Sex Pistols may have caused genuine controversy upon their arrival in 1977, Rotten’s attempts to duplicate this controversy have generally involved sneering, saying “fuck off” a lot, and doing mildly outrageous things designed to coerce another wave of clueless squares to buy copies of “Never Mind the Bollocks” as novelty items to display in their homes. All the while, he justifies this by claiming that he is shaking things up in the establishment and “having a laugh,” as if the mere sight of his face is enough to send shockwaves of panic through the straight world. He fails to realize that due to his years of overexposure and televised sneering, old people aren’t even scared of him anymore. He has moved from “public enemy” to “loveable scamp.” In fact, I predict that the monarchy will try to have him knighted within my lifetime. He’ll probably accept it, too, “for a laugh.”"
That's a long way of saying "Nobody has given a shit about Johnny Rotten since the 70's so why should we start again now?"
howyadoin
10-09-2008, 04:57 PM
... the lead singer of Punk’s first prefab boy-band, The Sex Pistols...I love it when people say things like that as if they're provocative and clever.
40footwolf
10-09-2008, 05:18 PM
I remember a little while back when I got a copy of "Nevermind The Bollocks" and I thought to myself, "This is going to be so awesome", and then about halfway through I realized that it sucked. I did my best to trick myself into liking it for the longest time and it was one of the hardest things I had to do, to realize that the Sex Pistols were garbage.
I am not a fan of the Sex Pistols, if that was not clear.
I do have the utmost respect for Sid Vicious, however. Anyone who calls his audience "a bunch of faggots" and slams one of them in the head with his instrument gets props.
leonaozaki
10-09-2008, 07:09 PM
Punk petered out sometime around 1982, pretty much around the time the Clash broke-up and Black Flag got a recording contract.
I see where you're going with the Clash, but I don't understand the Black Flag reference? Because they weren't punk? Because they were...bad?
rob
Adam C
10-09-2008, 07:35 PM
I see where you're going with the Clash, but I don't understand the Black Flag reference? Because they weren't punk? Because they were...bad?
Possibly, unless he also makes a distinction between straight "punk" and "hardcore". It's not the worst distinction when you consider that by the 80s, the original punk wave in Britain and New York had run its course and the vast majority of the bands had split up or changed their sound. By then punk had mutated into hardcore in America or Oi! in Britain. Arguably however, a better reference point is 1975-1979. By '79 the Pistols had not only broken up, but so had most of the New York scene with the exception of the Ramones, Blondie, and Talking Heads. The Clash had moved on stylistically and "post-punk" was beginning to emerge with the first albums by Siouxsie and the Banshees, Joy Division, the Fall, and Gang of Four.
I do have the utmost respect for Sid Vicious, however. Anyone who calls his audience "a bunch of faggots" and slams one of them in the head with his instrument gets props.
May I ask why this garners your respect?
twilight
10-09-2008, 08:25 PM
I do have the utmost respect for Sid Vicious, however. Anyone who calls his audience "a bunch of faggots" and slams one of them in the head with his instrument gets props.
I LOL'd.
Bollocks may not be the deepest record but it's a lot of fun and Sid Vicious was a moron.
-Twi
40footwolf
10-09-2008, 09:39 PM
Um, because it's fucking RAD?
DrewTheXenocide
10-09-2008, 09:50 PM
Punk petered out sometime around 1982, pretty much around the time the Clash broke-up and Black Flag got a recording contract.
I see where you're going with the Clash, but I don't understand the Black Flag reference? Because they weren't punk? Because they were...bad?
rob
I guess I can sort of see where you're coming from, if, like Adam C. said, you're strictly talking about straight punk and not any of its derivatives.
I see where you're going with the Clash, but I don't understand the Black Flag reference? Because they weren't punk? Because they were...bad?
rob
Black Flag was excellent but what they represented was a new style of music, Hardcore.
And while Hardcore certainly owes alot to the Punk era, it's different stuff.
Plus by the early 1980's as Adam points out we were seeing the emergence of a totally different, style of music from the Brits.
Adam C
10-09-2008, 10:22 PM
Um, because it's fucking RAD?
I guess it's a "may your mileage vary" issue then. I don't find anything awe inspiring by insulting your audience with a vile slur and then physically attacking them. And he did so in response to getting hit by a beer can, which makes the circumstances understandable...and more banal. Robert Quine (then a 35-year-old man) already did that after putting up with audience abuse when Richard Hell and the Voidoids went on tour with the Clash in October 1977. Of course he admitted that his attack was motivated by the momentary aggression such an incidence causes and was "cowardly."
Anything Sid did, Iggy did first, and better back when he was in the Stooges. And he didn't do it because he was following an existing idea of being a rebel. He was doing it simply because he was seeing what worked and figured this is what he had to do. (And anyways while Sid can take credit for the attack, it was Johnny Rotten who threw out the insult.)
40footwolf
10-09-2008, 10:43 PM
Yeah, I think we're operating on two different wavelenghts when it comes to this.
(I love Iggy Pop and his crazed antics as well, for the record)
Adam C
10-09-2008, 10:59 PM
Yeah, I think we're operating on two different wavelenghts when it comes to this.
(I love Iggy Pop and his crazed antics as well, for the record)
Is it any secret that my favourite Stooge is Ron Asheton, which while having a bizarre fascination with Nazi regalia was smart enough not to get into heroin and actually save up money from the time that the band was under David Bowie's management company? And getting kicked out of school last after his brother Scott and Dave Alexander. That says something...
(Well that and he's the guitar player.)
leonaozaki
10-10-2008, 08:06 PM
Black Flag was excellent but what they represented was a new style of music, Hardcore.
And while Hardcore certainly owes alot to the Punk era, it's different stuff.
Plus by the early 1980's as Adam points out we were seeing the emergence of a totally different, style of music from the Brits.
OK, that's what I thought you meant, but I didn't want to assume anything. I agree about hardcore, if not the larger point of punk's death.
But still: isn't Damaged a great record?
rob
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.