Are Alpha Flight really a mutant team?

[david r]

After reading the early issues of Alpha Flight, I realize only TWO members are mutants: Aurora and Northstar.

The rest are not. So if Guardian, Puck, Sasquatch, Marrina, Snowbird, Box, Heather Hudson and Mr. Jeffries not mutants, HOW can Alpha Flight be called a mutant team? Are there explanations on why this is??

[HeckBoy]

After reading the early issues of Alpha Flight, I realize only TWO members are mutants: Aurora and Northstar.

The rest are not. So if Guardian, Puck, Sasquatch, Marrina, Snowbird, Box, Heather Hudson and Mr. Jeffries not mutants, HOW can Alpha Flight be called a mutant team? Are there explanations on why this is??Still doesn't sway the majority, but I believe Mr. Jeffries is also a mutant.

[Nevets F]

Over the years, Alpha Flight had MANY more mutants. Pathway, Persuasion, Goblyn, Wild Child, Madison Jefferies, Diamond Lil, Northstar, Aurora, Manikin, Feedback, Flex, Radius, Murmur, Ghost Girl, Windshear, Silver, Auric, and others.

However, I always considered it a Marvel Universe title. The X-Office owns it though, for whatever reasons those may be. I assume because it was an X-Men spinoff. I am ok with it.

[david r]

I think Alpha Flight was branded a mutant team because they spun out of X-Men. Was it in the X-office during the Byrne years? I got the impression it was outside the X-office.

[david r]

Over the years, Alpha Flight had MANY more mutants. Pathway, Persuasion, Goblyn, Wild Child, Madison Jefferies, Diamond Lil, Northstar, Aurora, Manikin, Feedback, Flex, Radius, Murmur, Ghost Girl, Windshear, Silver, Auric, and others.


Steven, that's a good point. But when so many classic characters, most of the original group & most popular members, are NON-mutants....how can the team be called a mutant team? :confused:

[escapegoat]

David, are you trying to stir up trouble on the X-boards again !?!

[david r]

David, are you trying to stir up trouble on the X-boards again !?!

Nothing less than a Canadian/American tug-of-war will do!

[Nevets F]

Steven, that's a good point. But when so many classic characters, most of the original group & most popular members, are NON-mutants....how can the team be called a mutant team? :confused:

Well, I never really considered it a mutant book, I always felt it was Marvel Universe. However, characters are "owned" by different editorial offices, and I would imagine since Alpha is ultimately an X-Men spin off, the X-Office owns it.

I actually think Silver Surfer is more odd...he is firmly cosmic, but he belongs to the Fantastic Four editor. The FF editor has to give permission for Silver Surfer to appear in any book besides FF. Or, also odd, was when New Warriors was a Spider-Office title, just because waaaay late in the game, Scarlet Spider was a member for a very short period of time.

[david r]

I think the Silver Surfer is explained because he debuted in Fantastic Four. And had his best known appearances there for decades. But he should really fit in the Marvel Universe office.

[Joe Acro]

The rest are not. So if Guardian, Puck, Sasquatch, Marrina, Snowbird, Box, Heather Hudson and Mr. Jeffries not mutants, HOW can Alpha Flight be called a mutant team?
Don't be so hasty there! Jeffries is a mutant.

And Persuasion, too, once she joined.

Really, though, they aren't a mutant team.

Are they referred to as such in-comic?

[Nevets F]

Are they referred to as such in-comic?

Not that I recall. As far as I remember, they were more referred to as the "Canadian Avengers" more than a mutant team.

[escapegoat]

Not that I recall. As far as I remember, they were more referred to as the "Canadian Avengers" more than a mutant team.

Up here, we like to refer to them as "The Most Truely Superb Super-Group Of AwesomenessThat All Other Super Groups In The Universe Look Up To" :biggrin:

The only way they could be even more awesome would be to have Scott Pilgrim to join their team, since he's Canadian as well......even if he didn't join, but just dropped by for a visit. That would be the awesomest team-up ever. There would be no need to ever do a multi-company cross-over ever again after that one....

[Canemacar]

Alpha Flight is as much a mutant team as Captain Britain is. Which is to say not at all. It's just billed as part of the X-franchise for marketing purposes.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Are Alpha Flight a mutant team? No.

Are Big Hero Six a mutant team? No.

Are/were Excalibur a mutant team? No.

All the teams above are, first and foremost, International Superhuman Teams. Their remit is far beyond a pure concept of 'deal with mutant stuff' and their roster is far more likely to be populated by characters who have come by powers by ANY means - magical, accidental, genetic engineering - than seeking out mutant characters to join.

The problem is that all three teams were spawned from characters who have some ties with the X-Men. I think that part of the reason for that is that the X-Men have always been very international in terms of rosters and the places they travel to, whereas right into the 2000s, sad though it is, the Marvel Universe titles has become very America orientated. That's something that Marvel are proud to be correcting now, but non-American teams tended to get formed through the X-Men books. Even though, in all practical terms, there was no logical reason to make them X-TEAMS.

But it was the 90s. The X-Men sold better. So if they stick an X on the cover...

Yeah. Cynical, maybe. But True. They're not Mutant Teams. And now that the MU Titles are the big boys and the X-Men the poorer cousins, you can almost guarantee that any further relaunches will be in the big pond.

[Joe Acro]

Are Big Hero Six a mutant team? No.Isn't at least half of Big Hero Six comprised of mutants?

I could be wrong. I'm working on vague recollection of the members in the current mini.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Isn't at least half of Big Hero Six comprised of mutants?

I could be wrong. I'm working on vague recollection of the members in the current mini.

Currently, as far as I am aware, no member of Big Hero Six is a mutant. Sunfire was, when they debuted, but since then? No. They're Japan's team. Not Japan's mutants.

[HellFrost]

Are/were Excalibur a mutant team? No.


I know that Excalibur back in the day had arguable three non-mutants, and I say three because I count Lockheed as a member and Meggan's race status is always in flux.

The most recent Excalibur teams were almost completely comprised of mutants. In Excalibur Vol. 2, I believe the only member that wasn't, was Karima.

In New Excalibur they had, again, arguably two charcters who weren't mutants. I thought I remember that Cain had a dormant X-gene that, like, didn't develop the right way or some such confusion.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I know that Excalibur back in the day had arguable three non-mutants, and I say three because I count Lockheed as a member and Meggan's race status is always in flux.

The most recent Excalibur teams were almost completely comprised of mutants. In Excalibur Vol. 2, I believe the only member that wasn't, was Karima.

The Genoshan Excalibur cannot be counted as being in any way part of, or associated with, the hero team Excalibur. They were only given the name to keep it in copyright and have no connection whatsoever to Britain's Superteam - which have now been replaced by the extended MI:13.

The Genoshan book was all about mutants, yes, but it was conceived as such and really could have been given ANY name. Marvel chose to use Excalibur rather than let its copyright lapse - imagine what DC could do with a book which held that name? And would they be likely to let the copyright lapse a second time? Doubtful.

I can understand the situation from Marvel's point of view, but commissioning another limited series based in Britain would have been a much better way of keeping it live.


In New Excalibur they had, again, arguably two charcters who weren't mutants. I thought I remember that Cain had a dormant X-gene that, like, didn't develop the right way or some such confusion.

Cap and Juggernaut were not mutants. The rest of the team were. But the purpose of the team, and the majority of the stories which appeared in the book were not connected to mutant issues, but to British National Security, or Cain's status as the Juggernaut, or the Captain Britain Mythos, or the Black Knight's Ebony Blade...

Excalibur was bigger than just playing in the mutant pool. It is also worth noting that on almost every occasion it strayed there too long it suffered, both creatively and in terms of sales.

[AcesX1X]

Excalibur was bigger than just playing in the mutant pool. It is also worth noting that on almost every occasion it strayed there too long it suffered, both creatively and in terms of sales.

So, they were a mutant team minding human business?

kthnx

[HellFrost]

Cap and Juggernaut were not mutants. The rest of the team were. But the purpose of the team, and the majority of the stories which appeared in the book were not connected to mutant issues, but to British National Security, or Cain's status as the Juggernaut, or the Captain Britain Mythos, or the Black Knight's Ebony Blade...

Excalibur was bigger than just playing in the mutant pool. It is also worth noting that on almost every occasion it strayed there too long it suffered, both creatively and in terms of sales.

That wasn't really the point of the thread though, was it?

But you're right, New Excalibur is a mutant team.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

So, they were a mutant team minding human business?

kthnx

Nobody in Excalibur was there because they were a mutant. They were there because they were the best available at the time to work on the team.

Pete Wisdom is a mutant. But yet almost nothing about the character, what he does or who he is has anything to do with being a mutant. He's security services personnel, a spook, a spy. Call him what you want, but he very rarely sees much point involving himself in human affairs when there are bigger threats out there.

Nocturne and Sage were very much X-Men (All be it from very different worlds and perspectives) but Dazzler was something else. Performer first mutant second. That's what defines her.

Put simply let's say New Excalibur woke up one morning and discovered two major problems on their doorstep, one being a threat to the country and the other a threat to Britain's mutants, hey would doubtless deal with both. However, the vast majority of the team would be focusing on the first of those two - because it was bigger issue, with more at threat. That's prioritising, the way that a team has to when its kind of tied to the government. But it was also the way the original Excalibur would have behaved also.

If the X-Men wake up with the same set of options in the States they go for the second option, and contact the Avengers or SHIELD to deal with the first. Because to them mutant issues are more important and they have other people who they can contact to deal with larger National threats.

Now arguably I'm sure that Alpha Flight could also contact SHIELD, but when and where possible the Canadian Government prefers to deal with things themselves,

[Eye in the Sky]

It depends, Canadians are an off shot of baseline humans as it is then you throw in Canadians with powers given to them by another extra gene, I would say you have something complete different. A maple syrup drinking, hockey loving, canadian bacon (but not bacon) eating mutant with a mountie hat is what? A Labat Neo? Interesting topic aye.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

That wasn't really the point of the thread though, was it?

The point I;m making is that Alpha Flight, Excalibur and Big Hero Six all sit in the same boat. Because they began through the X-Men people often see them as being Mutant teams. Only they really have nothing much to do with mutant issues. Yes, Alpha Flight did have a lot of mutants over time. But that's because mutants were the popular kind of character to have on your team during the 90s.

The Canadian Government are going to bring in anybody they can to be on their superteam. Because they need a superteam. That's how Omega Flight came about, sad though that is.

In a battle between National priorities and the priorities of one section of a society the National priorities always win. It's not always fair, but its true.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

It depends, Canadians are an off shot of baseline humans as it is then you throw in Canadians with powers given to them by another extra gene, I would say you have something complete different. A maple syrup drinking, hockey loving, canadian bacon (but not bacon) eating mutant with a mountie hat is what? A Labat Neo? Interesting topic aye.

And I really hope any Canadians on this board have a sense of humour. :biggrin:

[Joe Acro]

The point I;m making is that Alpha Flight, Excalibur and Big Hero Six all sit in the same boat. Because they began through the X-Men people often see them as being Mutant teams. Only they really have nothing much to do with mutant issues.
I don't see a mutant team necessarily being defined by "mutant issues" (other than their own personal issues, of course).

I say a team with majority mutants could be considered a mutant team, just at the most fundamental heart of the term.

[b4ustandsi]

the only exalibur that wasnt an x-team was in the mini. when excalibur debuted, rachel convinced the team to stay together and fight for xavier's dream while incorporation merlin's dream.....or something like that

[Eye in the Sky]

And I really hope any Canadians on this board have a sense of humour. :biggrin:

I hope so too. But if they do have a sense of a humor then they might just be a mutant, a Canadian mutant. Which would prove the point aye? But really, stereotyping can be fun as long as everyone has thick skin.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

the only exalibur that wasnt an x-team was in the mini. when excalibur debuted, rachel convinced the team to stay together and fight for xavier's dream while incorporation merlin's dream.....or something like that

There was a hastily assembled justification, but the bottom line was that Kitty, Kurt and Rachel all believed the X-Men to be dead. Dead and gone. It was more of a justification to themselves to work with Brian an Meggan.

The original Excalibur worked alongside the British Government, and their Weird Happenings Organisation. That was the focus of the book for 50 odd issues, until Lobdell hacked the book apart, axed anybody who hadn't been an X-Man, moved the team to a neutral location and called them an X-Book. They were never a mutant team before that. Hell they were marketed as "Britain's Premier Superhero Team".

It's odd really, both Alpha Flight and Excalibur launched through the X-Men, but Excalibur was assimilated when they created the X-franchise at the start of the 90s. Alpha Flight wasn't. And in many ways it may have led to its dwindling sales, long term. You can't deny that in the 90s the X-Office got its books exposure!

But ethically neither was really a mutant title.