A little help regarding Catwoman in Hush?

[kalika]

I guess spoiler warnings? Regarding Hush/Under the Hood?

This board has been great as far as offering suggestions on how to get back on track with the Batman mythos. I was an avid reader back in the nineties but had to drop out right before No Man's land.

So I picked up the TPB with Damien and also Under the Hood and Hush.

Two things:

Hush definitely comes before Under the Hood, yeah? And even though it seems like its Clayface playing Jason, it really was Jason for a bit, but then he switched places with Clayface? Did I get that right? Was Hush really Tommy Elliot? Is that the same Hush that has been running around the current storylines (so he didn't die when he fell into the river)?

The Catwoman/Batman/Selina/Bruce romance. When they have that sexy kiss on the rooftops and he keeps rambling, "I kissed her..." for the next handful of pages -- am I supposed to believe this is the first time they've ever kissed? When did they erase their previous romance?

From what I get, the Hush/Under the Hood bit was back in 2005. I have picked up single issues here and there and I have the one where Selina wants to talk to Zatanna about her feelings for Bruce. So she still knows Bruce is Batman, yeah? And she still feels for him? How did he get over her and is now wrapped up in Jezebel? (Which I'm still confused about -- but will save it for another post unless somebody wants to pontificate!)

Thanks for any help clearing things up. I'm trying to do my research like a good Batfan, but I get by with a little help from my friends, y'know....? :biggrin:

[Bat-Matt]

Where to begin....

Yes, Hush takes place before Under the Hood. In Hush, Clayface took the form of Jason Todd but I believe it was the Lazarus Pit that resurrected him later after Hush ended. The real Jason Todd was never actually in Hush.

Tommy Elliot is and always has been Hush. The current DINI story with him is awesome so check it out.

Jezebel Jet is way after Hush, and the scene with Selina and Zatanna takes place is in the current Morrison Black Glove storyline so it takes place way after Hush.

I hope thats all good info and I hope it covers everything.

[Mat001]

It was Jason when the confrontation in the cemetary began, but then he switched with Clayface who was there for the rest of the Hush arc. It seems to be Tommy Elliot who was Hush there. As to Bruce and Selina kissing, they have kissed several times before. But this is the first time he's willingly gone along with it. He's not holding back like they did the previous times.

[nepenthes]

Selina and Bruce just ended within the pages of Hush, thier feelings and getting over each other etc was never carried over anywhere else. Which is a shame I agree, it looks like Dini's only getting to it now. After Hush and by the time Jezebel pops up it's a couple years later in real time and we just have to roll with it I guess. The suddeness of Jezebel and Bruce has made alot of people scratch their heads, you're not alone there. There still seems to be something fishy about her and the whole thing so we'll have to see it it makes more sense once all is revealed.

Bruce talking about kissing Selina for four pages.....this is the kind of writing that really annoys me with Loeb. He's doing repetition and hard introspection for effect it seems, too sound all cool and noir like he always does, without giving much real thought to what he's actually saying. It just ends up very trite, as is usual with Loeb.

[AlistairCrane]

Selina and Bruce just ended within the pages of Hush, thier feelings and getting over each other etc was never carried over anywhere else.

Actually, in June 2004, nine months after the end of "Hush", Selina and Bruce made love in the pages of Catwoman, and then again in December 2004's issue.

[joe27]

Catwoman was a bitch in Hush, so I just pretend it never happened.

There was a scene in the cave where she was getting all pissy towards Robin or something. I don't really remember, but it came across as daddy's new girlfriend resenting that he already has a kid.

And it sorta went against the great Catwoman/Robin interaction Dixon established in the 90's.

[AlistairCrane]

Catwoman was a bitch in Hush, so I just pretend it never happened.

There was a scene in the cave where she was getting all pissy towards Robin or something. I don't really remember, but it came across as daddy's new girlfriend resenting that he already has a kid.

And it sorta went against the great Catwoman/Robin interaction Dixon established in the 90's.

If anything, Robin was being a twat to Catwoman.

[nepenthes]

Actually, in June 2004, nine months after the end of "Hush", Selina and Bruce made love in the pages of Catwoman, and then again in December 2004's issue.

do they talk about what happened in Hush? or is it just a simple case of them meeting and getting it on?

I also wasn't amused by the Robin Catwoman squabble in Hush. Another perfect example of Loebs hackneyed scripting, as I described above. he tries to make everything 'bad arse' and edgy when as a writer hes actually pretty tame and derivative

[chipsnopotatoes]

Catwoman was a bitch in Hush, so I just pretend it never happened.

There was a scene in the cave where she was getting all pissy towards Robin or something. I don't really remember, but it came across as daddy's new girlfriend resenting that he already has a kid.

And it sorta went against the great Catwoman/Robin interaction Dixon established in the 90's.

Seem to recall that Robin started the fight in Hush. And then later it was revealed to be all an act. To what purpose, I still scratch my head to this day...

But you're right, i liked the earlier Robin/Catwoman interactions much better. In Contagion, she was quite affectionate and protective of him at the same time.

[AlistairCrane]

do they talk about what happened in Hush? or is it just a simple case of them meeting and getting it on?



It doesn't specifically reference "Hush", but it takes place after because she refers to Batman as Bruce while he's in costume. They go on a date together as Selina and Bruce and later they make love.

Basically, the positive development in this issue (#32 I believe) pretty much undoes the crappy ending in "Hush".

[nepenthes]

so they've dropped the couple bit but they're still a casual pair when they feel like it. nice. and it also makes sense that Selina would be still be a little annoyed or jealous if Bruce starts taking his fun elsewhere, like with Jezebel as shown in Dini's recent Detective, she was all catty about her.

But you're right, i liked the earlier Robin/Catwoman interactions much better. In Contagion, she was quite affectionate and protective of him at the same time.

yeah this is a really cool angle, I'd like to see it return. a cool step-mum kinda thing. ha ha

.

[kalika]

Actually, in June 2004, nine months after the end of "Hush", Selina and Bruce made love in the pages of Catwoman, and then again in December 2004's issue.


Hey, so...um...you grabbed my attention with this bit of information and I went a-hunting to find these issues. Looks like the June 2004 issue is Catwoman #32, where they date and end up in bed.... which I could not find :frown: but I did get my hands on Catwoman #36 December 04 and there was no action in that issue. (well, not that kind of action! :wink: )

Did you mean Catwoman's Dec 04 or something else??

[Mia]

Catwoman was a bitch in Hush, so I just pretend it never happened.

There was a scene in the cave where she was getting all pissy towards Robin or something. I don't really remember, but it came across as daddy's new girlfriend resenting that he already has a kid.

And it sorta went against the great Catwoman/Robin interaction Dixon established in the 90's.

This is pretty much my opinion as well. I just pretend that Hush is out of continuity.

Actually, in June 2004, nine months after the end of "Hush", Selina and Bruce made love in the pages of Catwoman, and then again in December 2004's issue.

And the way that story was presented it came accross as if it wasn't the first time that Bruce and Selina hooked up. Brubaker essentially wrote Batman/Catwoman, Bruce/Selina as an ex-couple who still hook up now and again.

[Brack360]

Hey, so...um...you grabbed my attention with this bit of information and I went a-hunting to find these issues. Looks like the June 2004 issue is Catwoman #32, where they date and end up in bed.... which I could not find :frown: but I did get my hands on Catwoman #36 December 04 and there was no action in that issue. (well, not that kind of action! :wink: )

Did you mean Catwoman's Dec 04 or something else??

The second instance was actually in Catwoman #39, which has a cover date of March 2005.

[kalika]

The second instance was actually in Catwoman #39, which has a cover date of March 2005.

This one: http://comicsnexus.com/2005/01/26/31455/ ?

Wooden Nickel.....:rolleyes: ?

[AlistairCrane]

This one: http://comicsnexus.com/2005/01/26/31455/ ?

Wooden Nickel.....:rolleyes: ?

Yep, that's the one. The second of a three-part story with Wooden Nickel.

Also, I don't go by the cover date, I go by the date it came out. That issue came out in December 04.

[Choppa]

Two things:

Hush definitely comes before Under the Hood, yeah? And even though it seems like its Clayface playing Jason, it really was Jason for a bit, but then he switched places with Clayface? Did I get that right? Was Hush really Tommy Elliot? Is that the same Hush that has been running around the current storylines (so he didn't die when he fell into the river)?


Yes you got it right, Jason and Clayface switched back and fourth. HUSH has always been Thomas Elliot. There was no indication that he died in the first HUSH storyline.


The Catwoman/Batman/Selina/Bruce romance. When they have that sexy kiss on the rooftops and he keeps rambling, "I kissed her..." for the next handful of pages -- am I supposed to believe this is the first time they've ever kissed? When did they erase their previous romance?


I'm pretty sure that he was surprised at how quickly she was getting him to fall in love with her. In the end you learn that she might have been in on it the whole time so he can't trust if his feelings were true or not.

Also, Loeb (the author) doesn't care about continuity. He just kind of created his own backstory


From what I get, the Hush/Under the Hood bit was back in 2005. I have picked up single issues here and there and I have the one where Selina wants to talk to Zatanna about her feelings for Bruce. So she still knows Bruce is Batman, yeah? And she still feels for him? How did he get over her and is now wrapped up in Jezebel?

Poor editing and lack of continuity.