Better Batgirl

[theNighteye]

Who is the better Batgirl? Barbara or Cassandra? and why? I am having a lil argument with a friend.

[Vidocq]

Who is the better Batgirl? Barbara or Cassandra? and why? I am having a lil argument with a friend.

I like Cassandra better. She has a much better Origin Story and her character as a whole is more interesting. Also, Batman letting an amateur martial artist (as talented as she may be) with no other motive other than an adrenaline rush in his war on Crime.

[rick]

Cassandra is dull, dull, dull.

Give me Babs any day.

[joe27]

Cassandra, if you overlook the garbage about her going evil. Just because if I was in need of rescue, I'd feel more confident I was going to live with her Batgirl rescuing me than with Barbara's.

She's more like Batman in terms of abilities, whereas Babs was a joke until she became Oracle.

And I always got the impression Barbra's primary motivations for being Batgirl was that she liked the way the costume made her ass look, daddy issues and thrill-seeking. I found her more of a selfish character than a hero. Cassandra (when written correctly) is a true hero.

[joe27]

Cassandra is dull, dull, dull.

Give me Babs any day.

I agree with you about Cassandra, but I was going on who I think the most competent Batgirl is.

If it's in terms of who's most readable, I don't think I can choose. They're both pretty excruciating. Cassandra puts me to sleep and Babs has me rolling my eyes anytime she speaks. She's also the DC character with the widest array of stupid facial expressions, so she doesn't even have to be speaking to be annoying.

I do like both of their costumes though.

[nepenthes]

http://batgirlarchives.8m.com/images/395px-gothamknights43.jpg

I wish there were more contemporary stories set in the later part of her career. It's always early days for her. lets see her kicking arse as a crimefigthing veteran.

[Chiroptera]

Better?
Cassandra. She's the superior combatant, and seems to have lived up to Batman's expectations and training more thoroughly than Barbara.

In terms of better from just character personality and enjoying reading, I personally preferred Babs. I liked the light hearted fun that she always seemed to be bring to the table in Batman adventures; Cassie doesn't bring that.
Personally, if anyone were to actually succeed Batman as the primary guardian of Gotham I'd want it to be her just because she's the only member of the Bat-family who really seems to have everyone of Batman's own qualities.

[HaroldAllnut]

Cassandra is dull, dull, dull. Give me Babs any day.

Thank you.

You've got to love a crimefighting librarian. Barbara had a better outlook, was a skilled combatant and investigator, and her costume, though impractical, was fa-bu-lous!

[Jared]

Cassie's whole concept just doesn't sit right with me, at least, not as a long-term member of the family. Had she hung around for a few story arcs, then ultimately died, turned evil, or moved on somewhere else, I'd have no problem.

Batman should not have a sidekick that can kick his ass, which by rights, she should be able to do easily. She can dodge bullets, stalemate Deathstroke, and straight-up defeat Shiva, for cryin' out loud!

She's also one sidekick too many. Robin is other half of the Dynamic duo. Nightwing operates in another city. Oracle the behind-the-scenes support. There's no need for a Batgirl.

[Generic Eric]

Oracle has alot more personality than Cassandra caine ever had. If Cass even wound up in a wheelchair she would be useless. Her only skill is an ability to fight. She has no detective skills, a must for a bat character. She would win in at fist fight but fail horribly in a game of hide and go seek.

[carabas]

I rank them like this: original Cassandra Cain is best by far, followed by Babs, with so far behind she hardly even counts, current Cass.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Cassandra, easily. Her origin is better, more compelling, her character is far more flawed/interesting and she works better as a foil to Batman than Babs ever did. Cass' background allows her to work perfectly in a million more noir stories than Babs.

Remove Batman from Babs' background and she has no origin. Remove Batman from Cass', and you could easily still have the same character. The only difference is that he serves as a great foil for her.

To be honest, I think if Babs were introduced today, she'd rightly be called a Mary Sue. God knows she has enough of the traits.

[Endless Flight]

Barbara is the best.

[DonC]

Better fighter? Cass. But she's about as interesting as watching paint dry. I'll read an old Babs story over Cass any day of the week.

[vazel]

I really liked Barbara in Batman:TAS. And I love the way she looks in her costume with yellow added to Batman's colors and her red hair hanging out. I haven't seen much of Babs in comics to say for sure who I prefer. I've always been a bit bitter that by the time I got into comics she was no longer Batgirl and her being a cripple means she never will be again. :(

[Kid Kyoto]

Well what do you want and how realisitic do you like your comics?

Barbara is a bright librarian who decides to put on her halloween costume and fight crime. A nice silver-age idea but not something that holds water when you stop and think about the fact she's going to be fighting mobsters, serial killers, superpowered monsters and the like.

Cassandra was trained from birth to be the ultimate fighter. Not as easy to relate to but at least we can see her doing the stuff a costumed vigilante is going to do.

[Bat-Reader]

Cassandra.

She's the most worthy. :tongue:

[Jared]

To be honest, I think if Babs were introduced today, she'd rightly be called a Mary Sue. God knows she has enough of the traits.

To be fair, one could have made a similar case against Tim Drake.

[Young Avenger]

Cassandra Cain. I find her to be a more interesting character. Honestly, I never liked Babs until she became Oracle

[The Cool Thatguy]

To be fair, one could have made a similar case against Tim Drake.

Not really. Tim's claim to fame is being smart and figuring out Batman's ID. In a fight, he's easily the weakest of the Batclan. And while Cass may be the best fighter of the Clan, she's the worst detective.

In contrast, what major flaws does Babs have? She's a relative of a major supporting character, genius who's had a crush on Batman and was in the subject of a crush by Robin/Dick, and somehow she manages to keep up with the Bat-crew with secret training that's somehow lets her keep up with their lifetime training.

[scary harpy]

I admit Cassandra is a better fighter but Barbara is my favorite batgirl.

I can identify with Miss Gordon more than I can Cassandra because Babs is more vulnerable and intellectual.

As Marvel has proved with Spiderwoman and Ms Marvel, you can not get away from the first and Babs is an original.

In this age of Green Lanterns, Bette, Babs and Cassandra could all be Batgirl.

[Kid Kyoto]

As Marvel has proved with Spiderwoman and Ms Marvel, you can not get away from the first and Babs is an original.

Actually...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/Bat-GirlBM141.jpg/170px-Bat-GirlBM141.jpg

Barbara was introduced to replace Betty Kane.

[Mister Intensity]

Oracle has alot more personality than Cassandra caine ever had. If Cass even wound up in a wheelchair she would be useless. Her only skill is an ability to fight. She has no detective skills, a must for a bat character. She would win in at fist fight but fail horribly in a game of hide and go seek.

That sums up how I feel about Cassandra. She's an amazing fighter but she's below average in all the other qualities of a Bat-operative. Considering how Batman has been characterized over the years, I could never buy him taking on Cass because she's not as strong mentally as his other partners, especially after what happened to Jason Todd.

[Dard]

Cassandra used to be my favourite by far.

I really like Barbara, but only as Oracle. As Batgirl, she was just one superhero among many. No stories with her as Batgirl convinced me that I could like her in that role. Sure, that youthful enthusiasm she had was nice, but not unique.

Cassandra on the other hand was unique and interesting in almost every regard. I'm not talking about her fighting skills. They alone are worthless to a character. No, it was her faults, her mental issues and her crazy drive to prevent deaths. She was the only superhero I know who would (and did) go so far to catch bullets with her body in order to save the life of a hired killer who was out to kill her!
That, and her slowly growing social skills starting from almost nothing.

Babs (as Oracle) and Cassandra together was a dream team. Cass alone was very good.

Cass as she is now is boring, boring, boring.

[The Cool Thatguy]

That sums up how I feel about Cassandra. She's an amazing fighter but she's below average in all the other qualities of a Bat-operative. Considering how Batman has been characterized over the years, I could never buy him taking on Cass because she's not as strong mentally as his other partners, especially after what happened to Jason Todd.

Detective skills aside, how is she not strong enough mentally? She took out Two-Face, runs rings around trained killers and has a strong emotional grasp of Batman's 'No Killing Rule', something Jason Todd never had.

Cass may not be great at mysteries, but she can break into virtually anywhere with little trouble, knows when a person is lying and can beat Lady Shiva in unarmed hand to hand combat. In addition, she worships him and asks nothing in return emotionally. I really can't see how he'd turn someone like that down.

[carabas]

I can identify with Miss Gordon more than I can Cassandra because Babs is more vulnerable...
Funny. Outside of the literal buletproof skin meaning, I can't imagine anyone less vulnerable than Barbara Gordon in the entire DCU.

[dreyga2000]

Funny. Outside of the literal buletproof skin meaning, I can't imagine anyone less vulnerable than Barbara Gordon in the entire DCU.

Correct me if I'm wrong...isn't it true of all the people on the Bat-squad Barbra has had the least combat training...All she's had were several self-defense classes and a black belt in Judo.

It's not hard to imagine her running into a hitman or thug with a superior background and very feasible shot at soloing her.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Correct me if I'm wrong...isn't it true of all the people on the Bat-squad Barbra has had the least combat training...All she's had were several self-defense classes and a black belt in Judo.

Probably true, but DC never paid any story attention to combat training/ability until Babs was long retired. The most recent flash back story with Babs showed her keeping up with Catwoman and tearing through Arkham.

[carswell13]

Babs was fun.
Cass......does she ever have fun?
Make mine Babs.

[Cayman]

Definitely Babs. She owns the role.

[carabas]

Correct me if I'm wrong...isn't it true of all the people on the Bat-squad Barbra has had the least combat training...All she's had were several self-defense classes and a black belt in Judo.

It's not hard to imagine her running into a hitman or thug with a superior background and very feasible shot at soloing her.


I can identify with Miss Gordon more than I can Cassandra because Babs is more vulnerable and intellectual.
I figured he meant emotionally vulnerable.

[joe27]

I'd like a flashback where Batman and Batgirl rescue Vicki Vale. Then Babs gets into a snit because Vicki is hotter than her, and makes a very inappropriate comment.

Vicki would then take Babs down with slap-fu.

It could be quite a telling moment, because Barbara would look like a fool and aspire to less disrespectful to people from that point on. Being beaten up by a civilian (in front of Batman no less) would also bring her abilities into question. Fearing Batman is about to shit can her, she beings learning about computers in order to be more of an asset.

This could be contrasted with a contemporary scene where Vicki meets Cassandra and finds her really charming and polite.

[carabas]

Do you actually have a reason for this fanatical Babs hate, or is it just irrational foaming at the mouth?

[Captain Jim]

Who is the better Batgirl? Barbara or Cassandra? and why? I am having a lil argument with a friend.

Just for fun, I added a poll. :smile:

[Kid Kyoto]

Just for fun, I added a poll. :smile:

Hey you left out Betty Kane!

Ah well, I voted Cassie because of the way the question was phrased. By any measure the world's greatest martial artist is better suited to pal around with Batman than a moonlighting librarian who took a judo class.

But Babs is the more interesting character.

[TheBatGotHim]

I like Barbara much better. She's more interesting and the whole "Commish is my dad" thing plays out real well in stories.

Cassandra just bores me.