Abe's breathing suit?

[bantor2]

What is the deal with Abe's suit. You see him wearing it so he can breath out of water, and then the next time you see him out of water he isn't wearing it. Does he only need it for a short period of time. Does wearing it for 10 mins allow him to go without for like 10 hours?

[AbeSapien99]

Are you talking about the movies? There were quite a few careless flaws in the films that I noticed... Other than that, it seemed like Abe only wore the water-suit when he was away from the BPRD headquarters - as in, when he was away from a tank he could swim in. Although, I seem to recall from the second movie that he went without the water-suit for most of the film. :\

And correct me if I am incorrect, but Abe never wore those tanks in any of the comics, did he? It's another of the movie-changes they made that bugged me... Hellboy wearing boots and not showing off his hooves, Hellboy wearing pants (where did his shorts go?), Abe being telepathic, the Bureau's headquarters being in New Jersey... One change I did like is how Broom was killed by Kroenen almost near the end - I didn't like how he died so soon into Seed of Destruction. :S But anyways, let's keep things on topic...

[bantor2]

I didn't know it was just in the movies. So in the comics he doesn't need a breathing suit? Does he have Gills and lungs? how does he breath outa water? :confused:

[Neil Hill]

Application of logic to movies and comics....brain hurting..overload!! :biggrin:

[E. Spears]

how does he breath outa water? :confused:

As a product of Mike Mignola's imagination, I figure he can breath out of his rear-end if it's how Mike draws it.

Remember: Comic books ≠ real life. For real.

:cool:

[Nick W]

Remember: Comic books ≠ real life. For real.

:cool:


You take that back! Take it back now!

Anyway, he is a fish-MAN. So I always figured his "power" was being able to do all the stuff a normal dude would plus getting to breathe underwater. The only drawback being he dries out easier and probably doesn't smell too good.

N

[AbeSapien99]

Well, as Nick pointed out, he's a fish-man, so evidently he can breathe both via gills and via lungs. I think the water-suit in the movies was more of a way to keep him hydrated instead of actually for breathing. Although, it was wrapped around his gills, so.... :confused:

Yeah in the comics it doesn't seem to matter. But to prevent some wild speculation, let's just agree the suit in the movies was just a way to make Abe look dorky for some reason - he never wore it in the comics, why would he need it in the film? Maybe it amplifies his telepathy... :rolleyes:

[TBolt]

In HB2, I just assumed that Abe upgraded to some other breathing apperatus after Jimmy Kimmel mocked his toilet seat looking one. He did get contacts to get rid of the goggles.

[Todd H]

I didn't know it was just in the movies. So in the comics he doesn't need a breathing suit? Does he have Gills and lungs? how does he breath outa water? :confused:

I believe...and I may be wrong.....that there was a scene in the second film where Abe finds a way to go without his aqualung that was cut from the final version.

It's also why we see him putting in the contact lenses. Keeps his eyes from drying out.

[Jake Capps]

That is one of the things I'm not to fond of about the movies.

[SpydaWeb]

Excerpt from the screenplay.

INTERIOR, THE LIBRARY - NIGHT.
On the upper floor of the library, Abe opens a high-tech case containing a pair of scleral lenses.
Blinking and grimacing, he inserts them into his eyes. He then takes a gill hydrator - a handheld,
pressurized water injector - and hydrates himself by pressing it against his gills.
Hearing a voice, he peeks over the railing. The princess is at one of the book stands, reading.

[Rachel Edidin]

And correct me if I am incorrect, but Abe never wore those tanks in any of the comics, did he?

Right--in the comics, he can breathe in or out of water.

[AbeSapien99]

Right--in the comics, he can breathe in or out of water.

Yeah I was fairly certain I had never seen it in any of Mignola's works, I just didn't know about maybe some of the BPRD comics having included it.

[InAdia]

Abe sometimes brings his hydro-tank along on missions, or on a mission. From what I read, he can breathe outside of water but prefers to sleep/ be in it.

The Real Inadia

[Kees_L]

Abe sometimes brings his hydro-tank along on missions, or on a mission. From what I read, he can breathe outside of water but prefers to sleep/ be in it.

The Real Inadia

And not enough sleep will make him all giddy in the fish-man-head :smile:...

[Pangaea]

Most likely GDT did it because he thought, "This would look cool as hell."

[bantor2]

I like the idea of a breathing suit. It would be a big part of abe's stories. Maybe if his suit was destroyed he'd immediatly go into shock and start dieing unless a fellow bprd member could get him to water intime. I think the suit would be an awesome idea

[Jake Capps]

I like the idea of a breathing suit. It would be a big part of abe's stories. Maybe if his suit was destroyed he'd immediatly go into shock and start dieing unless a fellow bprd member could get him to water intime. I think the suit would be an awesome idea

That would make him beyond weak. Why not just give him a walker, and a upside down fish bowl on his head?!

Also I respect & value your opinion.

[AbeSapien99]

Also I respect & value your opinion.

Hahahaha

But yeah I agree, that would make him really weak. That's what I didn't like about HB1 - Abe wore those big awkward tanks, we didn't see him fight anything, and half-way through he gets scratched and he's pretty much out of the movie. Plus he had telepathy/whatever that time-travel-vision power's called. Anyways, Abe is depicted as being pretty tough in the comics and cartoons, so it's good they don't always show him with those tanks.

Okay, and not to get too far off the topic of the water-suit, did it bother anyone else how - as I said - Abe gets scratched in the first movie and it's a big deal, but then in the second movie he gets thrown around by Mr. Wink and he just shrugs it off? I liked how they made Abe seem more capable, but it's a big thing to just get up from being tossed around by a troll as if nothing happened.

[Gary_B]

How does Abe breathe in and out of water? Neck lettuce, that's how.

[InAdia]

Are you talking about the movies? There were quite a few careless flaws in the films that I noticed... Other than that, it seemed like Abe only wore the water-suit when he was away from the BPRD headquarters - as in, when he was away from a tank he could swim in. Although, I seem to recall from the second movie that he went without the water-suit for most of the film. :\

And correct me if I am incorrect, but Abe never wore those tanks in any of the comics, did he? It's another of the movie-changes they made that bugged me... Hellboy wearing boots and not showing off his hooves, Hellboy wearing pants (where did his shorts go?), Abe being telepathic, the Bureau's headquarters being in New Jersey... One change I did like is how Broom was killed by Kroenen almost near the end - I didn't like how he died so soon into Seed of Destruction. :S But anyways, let's keep things on topic...


I know that Hellboy's look was scaled down due to budget cost. Everything else was just changed for variety's sake I suppose.

The Real Inadia

[AbeSapien99]

It would have cost THAT much to just give him some latex leggings and some hoove-esque boots? Surely there was enough money that in the second movie they could have at least done some scenes at the BPRD headquarters where they showed off his legs a little...

[hellboyone]

How does Abe breathe in and out of water? Neck lettuce, that's how.

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[InAdia]

It would have cost THAT much to just give him some latex leggings and some hoove-esque boots? Surely there was enough money that in the second movie they could have at least done some scenes at the BPRD headquarters where they showed off his legs a little...

Not really. Due to inflation Del Toro was working with essentially the same money he had with the first film; and pitted with the task of making the sequel appear to be bigger. In terms of make up, any visible parts of a characters like HB, Abe, Nuada and Nuala contributes to the amount of time they will need in the make up chair. I recall Ron talking about how difficult it was to get just a few shirtless moments in the first film due to budgetary constraints, so I am guessing it was more of the same during this outing. We did get a brief glimpse of his legs and hooves in the first film, so its not like they didn't try.

You must understand that Hellboy is an extremely difficult character to bring to life as you can't really cut corners by using computer animations like in the other special effects laden films of the summer. Between the layers upon layers of facial applications, horns, chest, and hand, you're looking at a great deal of time and money. He isn't Ironman or The Hulk, who have the benefit of a CGI bailout nor is he like Batman, or Spiderman, where you can just put them in tights and away they go. Golden Army certainly didn't have the big studio and corporation bucks of the aforementioned features so Guillermo had to make due with what was at hand; I just wish people would show a little more appreciation for it. I'm sure if he had a $180 million dollar budget like the Dark Knight he would have been able to give us a product that was equally as grand.

Still, what the production lacked in money it certainly made up for in heart and dedication. Something you can't buy, no matter the size of your pocket book.

The Real Inadia

[Todd H]

It would have cost THAT much to just give him some latex leggings and some hoove-esque boots? Surely there was enough money that in the second movie they could have at least done some scenes at the BPRD headquarters where they showed off his legs a little...

Actually I believe it was more of a safety concern. Ron was doing a lot of running and jumping and the hoof prostetics could have been a liability.

I don't remember where I heard it. Director's commentary maybe?

[AbeSapien99]

Actually I believe it was more of a safety concern. Ron was doing a lot of running and jumping and the hoof prostetics could have been a liability.

Sure I could see that, but what about when he's at home (headquarters) relaxing? Leather pants sure aren't the most comfortable thing, and boots all the time?

I guess that yeah, it would have taken a lot longer to get Ron into a full-body suit. And that it would have raised costs. But it's not like I'm asking that he be in shorts for the whole movie. Just once and a while so that people - non-comic readers, especially - know that he has hooves. Hell, for that matter, they could have just made a scene or two where he kicked off his boots for a couple minutes. I bet if I asked anyone who had seen the movie but never read any of the comics, most wouldn't even know Hellboy had hooves. I appreciate what they did with the movies with the budgets they had, but I think they could have included at least a pair of hoove-boots for non-action scenes.

I don't want to get into an argument about it - it just would have been nice to see.

We did get a brief glimpse of his legs and hooves in the first film, so its not like they didn't try.

Do you mean at the beginning, with all those news articles of him? Otherwise, I don't recall. And if so, that doesn't really do it justice...

[Asa]

Sure I could see that, but what about when he's at home (headquarters) relaxing?

If my memory serves me right, I beleive that it was mentioned on this very forum way back when the first movie came out, that one of the DVD's had him with hooves when he was working out after myers was first introduced to hellboy.
It was a very short scene. I'm sure that they thought of it then, but for some reason changed it.

[AbeSapien99]

Oh really? I guess I just missed that... Was it included in the movie (on DVD) or just as an extra? It could be exactly what I want. :tongue:

[InAdia]

In the beginning of the first film, when he is introduced to Myes, he's lifting a barbell shirtless, in shorts, smoking a cigar and you can see his hooves, albeit from a front angle.

Hooves are very tricky to pull off without looking completely off. Because they are a moving appendage, like his right hand and tail, computer enhancements would definitely have to be utilized and like I said before they just didn't have the money. It comes to the point where you have to choose which physical features are more important, and personally I'd rather have the non-literate public know that he has horns, a tail and a big stone hand over hooves. I would have like to have it all, but 3 out of 4 isn't bad. That is how indie comic characters are treated in mean ole tinsel town. Perhaps in 15 years, when he is just a piece of commercial endeavor, and has no soul whatsoever, we can get the hooves that we all crave, at an expense I feel very little here would pay. Wow, that rhymed, utterly unintentional.

The Real Inadia

[AbeSapien99]

I don't think they'd really need CGI enchancements, UNLESS they gave him the hooves in action sequences. If he was just standing around, a pair of shoes that look like hooves would work. If you look at Hellboy's hooves in the comics, they're not really your typical goat or horse hooves - it's longer, shaped more like a human foot.

Want me to say 'hooves' one more time? ....Hooves. There.

But anyways, that's just my thoughts on that. I'm gonna get my DVD out later and watch that scene, see these movie-hooves that I've missed. I think that here we should return to the topic of Abe's breathing gizmo. :wink:

[InAdia]

I don't think they'd really need CGI enchancements, UNLESS they gave him the hooves in action sequences. If he was just standing around, a pair of shoes that look like hooves would work. If you look at Hellboy's hooves in the comics, they're not really your typical goat or horse hooves - it's longer, shaped more like a human foot.

Want me to say 'hooves' one more time? ....Hooves. There.

But anyways, that's just my thoughts on that. I'm gonna get my DVD out later and watch that scene, see these movie-hooves that I've missed. I think that here we should return to the topic of Abe's breathing gizmo. :wink:

So when you're sitting at home, reading, or just hanging out watching TV in bed, you don't wiggle your toes at all? Its sort of the same deal with his hand, when its opened and moving it looks real, but the hands they have for fixed positions look rather tacky; but that's just one person's perspective. People don't normally dwell on feet in cinema, even in the X-Men films they never stopped and announced that Nightcrawler has hooves or that Beast has paws. To go as far as to focus on HB having hooves is something that WOULD HAVE required some computer enhancements, and like I said, tail and hand are costly enough.

The Real Inadia

[AbeSapien99]

I didn't say they should be FOCUSED on, just that they should have been included for people to notice. Subtle details, not something that demands the viewer's attention. But apparently what I wanted to see is already in the movie, I just missed it (TOO subtle).

Plus, are hooves actually moveable? I mean, can a horse move each 'side' of a hoof independently? (Honestly, I'm asking; I was under the impression it was a solid structure that was just connected to the foot/leg). Sure, the way Hellboy's feet are in the comics it looks like he can bend each hoof at a point other than the ankle (at about the spot a normal person would be able to move their toes), but it still seems to be that both 'hoof-points' on each foot are connected. So if they made some hoof-shoes for Ron's feet where the hooves started at the balls of his feet, it would look close-enough.

Scroll down about 1/4 of the page. (http://www.oafe.net/yo/gg_hbadvd.php) I realize it's a toy - of the animated Hellboy, no less - but it illustrates my point perfectly.

Show the feet, but don't necessarily make them able to 'wiggle the toes.' It's like the horse-shoe on his belt - they included it in the movie, but did he ever use it?

[Kees_L]

According to earlier posts movie people toyed with the idea of including hooves, probably in a subtle way, but then left it for big boots (or is the hooves scene actually in HB1 so there will be hooves sticking inside the boots?). Anyway, I feel Hellboy is always portrayed as an able walker, the hooves move and look like human feet. That's probably why the movie people fronted by GDT did not make them a big deal. He walks like a man so no zooming in on costly or 'explanation-demanding'/film-time-consuming stuff - they may have found.
However, in Abe's case they did focus on breathing apparati where originally there was no need for...
So there you have it. Decisions, decisions...
I personally feel Abe's stuff distracting (or I want those apparati to feel logical or understandable). For which I also feel the HB's blunt boot simplicity rather fitting. Not cuz hooves wouldn't be cool, but cuz they really would have to be right, pretty much exàctly right, and well, since they don't seem as important as his horns and his hand (even in the comics - theyre 'man-hooves'), simple boots will kinda do for me. So Liz's new hair did do it for you?:tongue: And Johann's?:biggrin:

[AbeSapien99]

Okay, let's agree to disagree that there should have been more hooves, but boots are good enough. End of discussion...

I liked Liz's new hair. It somehow seemed to fit her nicely - and I don't mean just appearance-wise; it somehow suited her personality. :smile:

But I did not like Johann's appearance. That was one of the things I loved about him in the comics - his silly bubble-head! Then they went and made him look like he's wearing a big, clunky old-timey diver's suit. I'm guessing they did this so it would be easier to 'hide' an actor in the suit, but still... that was a big change. :frown: (I liked Seth McFarlane as his voice, although every time he spoke I kept imagining Family Guy...)

[Kees_L]

After seeing the movie, I found it cool to hear miss Selma say in an interview how she immediately liked the HB2 script for her part, 'less doubty and more doy' or slt. I feel I can fathom your shock over Johann's appearance, like altered from pretty puny (yet Mouser-esquely steadfast) to buff and military-like. Well in my head I just treated him as a whole new character.
Toughest to swallow I found to be young Hellboy: too much of a wussy, too much human, too little demon-spawn (yet too much teeth?).
But yeah, to put it like Roger Whittaker: If = for children... :wink:
EDIT: as much as old Roger's remark sounds rather stupid, it's actually quite deep, if one won't take 'children' for a disqualification... As deep as David Lee Roth: "I would jog, but the ice-cubes'd keep falling outta my glass..."

[bantor2]

I Like the idea of a weaker Abe. He's the brains of the group not the brawn. Let Hellboy take on the huge tough monsters. Sure Abe should help fight the enemies but let it be weaker enemies. After all he is Fish-Man with the powers to swim real fast.:wink:

[Kees_L]

Certainly. Though perhaps people would argue he'd be that already. I bet movie people wish to avoid him dabbling with apparati which would need continuity and (some) explanation. Not because of audiences being this or that, but because movies are best largely self-explanatory or at least they seem always in a hurry. The weak would also apply to Johann: he may be weak and old as a martyr but he can hardly be touched anyway. So he may well have looked less 'buff' for me. Still GDT's take provides me with much more good than bad. Much more good.

[AbeSapien99]

Yeah actually the movie Johann felt more like a new character than the one from the comics. Not only because of appearance, but he was too commanding and a know-it-all (in fact, he had a command position :confused: Obv just a reason to introduce him to the team). In the BPRD comics, he was the quiet guy who just sorta stood back while the others worked, always seeming to stumble upon the key to the puzzle.

One thing I really liked about the movie version of Johann was near the end when the Golden Army attacked Hellboy and company: Johann actually fought (via one of the robots). It was especially good because GDT didn't even try to make Abe or Liz fight the robots - as it should have been. Sure, Liz could maybe have damaged them a little with her fire but otherwise she was useless against them; likewise, Abe had no chance without some big guns. So it was neat that just Hellboy and Johann fought while the other two just avoided getting hit.

As for a "weak" Abe: they shouldn't make him a tough-guy like Hellboy, no. But they should at least give him the impression of being capable.

Toughest to swallow I found to be young Hellboy: too much of a wussy, too much human, too little demon-spawn (yet too much teeth?).

Haha, yeah that was a bit awkward. But really, how else could they have made HB as a kid? I think they did an okay job, although I wish they had gotten a different actor... He wasn't too terrible, but he was pretty wussy. :tongue: Plus it was a big step from the little monkey-like baby HB from the first film to that HB as a kid.

[Hellmistress]

Just a wee note regarding the hooves - they wanted 'em, tried some designs but what it came down to was sheer impracticability plus safety concerns. They just didn't work.

HM

[Kees_L]

Thanks for that, Hellmistress.
You mean it turned out a little too much for mr. Pearlman during HB1 when they came at him with hacksaws, pliers and bone-picks to prepare his legs for hooves to properly fit ?
Probably you don't mean that, but I can't help picturing it :biggrin: :tongue:

[Pangaea]

If I could have a change with Selma, I'd nail horse shoes to my feet immediately.