X-Men: Legacy #216 (Summary w/ Spoilers and Schisms)

[worstblogever]

X-Men: Legacy #216-

Our story begins where we last left off, where Charles Xavier had telepathically gotten into the mind of Cyclops, and asked him out into the woods outside the San Francisco Marin Base to discuss the fact that Charles has learned about how he was genetically tampered with by Mr. Sinister, and Cyclops, he feels, may also might want to consider the fact that Essex did the same to him when he was being held by him in a Nebraska orphanage as a child.

Unfortunately, Scott Summers didn't take kindly towards being walked out of his own base and manipulated by Charles "for his own good". That's been a pattern in life he's developed some resentment about of late. And, so, in turn, has his main squeeze and current matriarch of the X-Men, Emma Frost.

Emma was aware of Charle's presence the whole time. And boy, did she make the most of it to prepare for quite the battle of telepaths.

While Charles was focused on talking to Scott, and trying to explain the whole Sinister thing, Emma was in Scott's head when Charles took control of it (formulate your own theories about that), and once Charles made contact, she remained hidden within, but was picking away at Charles' subconscious, installing blocks and inhibitions. Failsafes, and blindspits, as she felt necessary. As Emma puts it, "We're in my mindscape now. And at the risk of sounding vulgar... I own you."

Scott reiterates that whether the Professor likes it or not, Emma's going to look through his head, and assure that Mr. Sinister hasn't taken control of his mind. So Emma's going to go through some of Charles' uglier memories, to see how he reacts to them, and prove if it's really him or not.

The first memory is from the origin of Hank McCoy, the Beast (as referenced in [backstories in X-Men (vol. 1) #49-53, Marvel Comics Presents (vol. 1)#85-88]). And Emma points out how altruistic Xavier made himself sound when recruiting Beast. And then, immediately, he wanted to play God and wipe the memory of Hank McCoy from all his hometown of Dunfee, Illinois. And as Xavier relives this memory, Emma reads his thoughts, and learns he looks back on it with doubt, uncertainty, and the possibility that he did it just to prove he could to himself. Xavier demands they move on...

To another emotionally charged day in Xavier's life, when a young woman named Rogue came to him, terrified that she was going crazy, and wanting help controlling her powers (for the uninformed, it's Uncanny X-Men #171). Xavier had just claimed to Emma that he "doesn't presume to speculate how God feels". Well, Emma proves him wrong on that account, since he actually told her, "Like everything else you've ever done, your coming here was motivated entirely by self-interest. You want to be saved from the consequences of your own ruthlessness and cruelty. In time, you might be worthy of that salvation. In time, I might be prepared to offer it. To help you control your power. That time is far away. You must prove yourself, Rogue. I offer no pardons, and no gifts."

Even if you don't like her... Point for Emma.

And, making it worse, is Emma points out he lied to her and gave her the false hope for a cure he couldn't provide. Xavier admits, he said what he said because if he told her he couldn't help, she'd have fled back to Mystique (bet this comes into play after Rogue gets done with her soul-searching in Austrailia, huh?). Anyway, Charles claims he'd forgotten this day, and Emma thinks his mind suppressed it on purpose. Xavier starts thinking it's for the best, because he was arrogant, and self-sure, and Emma goes and slaps him across the face (telepathically, of course), because he started preaching again. Charles tries pointing out that it comes with being a telepath, and Emma doesn't pretend to be a saint, telling him, "Our sins are greater because our reach is greater." At least she admits it, I give her that. And she moves to the next, unpleasant memory...

The day that Cyclops got back to the mansion, after escaping Krakoa (as it was revealed in X-Men: Deadly Genesis #6). He got away, but left Alex and Jean behind, and just after learning he had a brother named Gabriel, Scott watched him die. Or so he thought.

Xavier feels so guilty about this one, he actually starts reliving it, rather than watching it dispassionately with Emma, finding himself in the wheelchair in the memory. He doesn't even try arguing with her, but she points out his defense would be that Scott needed to be on his feet to lead a team back in to rescue those who were still alive... and that's why he went ahead and played God again, and forced Scott to forget Gabriel, so he could cope.

Xavier tries to just say he's guilty to be done with it, and Emma knows he's trying to avoid really thinking about it, so she goes full-on with memories, showing him when he killed Cassandra Nova in the womb (revealed in X-Men (vol. 2) #121), mindwiped Magneto (X-Men (vol. 2) #25), tried to telepathically force Amelia Voght not to leave him (revealed in Uncanny X-Men #309/I]), and another where he telepathically tried to read the mind of Wolverine (okay, this one I'm stumped. Someone can help, if they'd like.)

In the real world, Charles is on the ground, wracked with pain, and even Cyclops is wondering what Emma's doing to him. She assures him, she's just clarifying the issues, and asks to be left to finish her work.

Xavier, inside his mind, tells Emma she's made her point, and to leave him, and she just asks, "What was my point?"

After giving him a bit of a tongue lashing, and considering that Cyclops avoided years of grief over Gabriel, but that it still was clearly wrong, Emma tells him, "You make the choice, and then you live with the consequences. Just like we all have to do."

She adds, though, "Listen well to those who love you." This statement gives Xavier pause, it's something Emma picked out of his head during her time in it. She asks if he wants context, and at first he's hesitant, until he realizes it was Moira MacTaggart who said it, while she was dying. Jean had to help Xavier maintain contact telepathically, to see her on the Astral Plane in her last moments ([I]X-Men (vol. 2) #108). Xavier had to be pulled back from Moira before she died by Jean, risking dying himself if he maintained telepathic contact with her.

Xavier is humbled to the point of tears, at Moira's last words to him, and as he stands, being released by Emma, and standing before her and Scott, that Jean Grey once told him... (To those looking for Charles redemption in this issue... the first thing he does after Emma psionically jackslaps him is throw Jean Grey's name out there. If that's not a "HAW, HAW! SUCK IT EMMA!" way to conclude their talk, well... it's a small consolation, but Charles does it)

Anyway, Jean Grey once told Xavier, "Death and birth can sometimes be the same thing. When your life stops, new possibilities open up." Scott's surprised, never having known Jean to say that, but he admits, that if anyone would know that, it'd be her.

But this is Xavier confirming, he wants to start anew. And, he extends a hand to Cyclops, telling him that it was good to see him, and know he left the X-Men in such good hands.

After a long, awkward pause, our final panel is Scott accepting his mentor's handshake.


Thoughts:

If you need action, no, this was not the issue for you. However, if you like nods to continuity, and can appreciate the story of a man confronting his demons, and having to move on emotionally, admitting he was wrong, and trying to begin a path of redemption? Then yes, you might just like this issue.

Art is solid. Character work by Mike Carey is spectacular, and Emma is as icy, clever and catty as she needs to be. Scott wasn't totally cold, he still showed concern for Xavier when he was hurt, and in the end, accepted what his mentor had to say.

Emma's ownage on Xavier is explained because Chuck-Bomb left himself vulnerable while he was managing Scott, and she took full advantage, so unless you just loathe Emma, you could justify how a less powerful telepath got the upper hand... by having more time to prepare for psionic combat. And then, coldly hitting every one of Charles' buttons to maintain the offensive.

I'll go 8/10 on this one.

[Agent_Torpor]

I'm having a Virginia Slim menthol and a sifter of brandy as I digest the latest Carey opus.

[Beast]

Yay. Another fantastic review by WBE. Can't wait!

Hopefully we don't get Xavier getting jobbed by Emma. That would be lame.

[worstblogever]

I'm having a Virginia Slim menthol and a sifter of brandy as I digest the latest Carey opus.

Stay classy, Agent_Torpor.

Yay. Another fantastic review by WBE. Can't wait!

Hopefully we don't get Xavier getting jobbed by Emma. That would be lame.

...

It's explained, at least.

[LawGiver]

This was horrible. I am dropping this book right now. Another issue of a trip down memory lane with Xavier? It would be one thing if it was memories I hadn't seen or knew already, but this is nothing new, nothing. Then to end it off with a handshake with Scott? A handshake? That's how they put their damn differences behind? Just like that? Utterly pathetic, how anyone can call this the "Thinking Man's" title is beyond me. I don't even wanna touch on the Emma slapping Xavier, as much as I like her, she has absolutely no soap box to stand on, none.

I quit Carey. You had me following you blinding, but everything you've done post MC in Legacy has been crap. I'll read Secret Invasion: X-Men for your good stuff.

[drwho]

Is that how you really feel?

[LawGiver]

I'm having a Virginia Slim menthol and a sifter of brandy as I digest the latest Carey opus.

HAHAHAHAHAHA screw the brandy, set down the bottle of George Dickel and let me just ingest the whole thing.

[Beast]

...

It's explained, at least.
*Sad Pandas*

Well....if he loses because he didn't want to make things worse with Scott by frying her, I'll take it.

[Mitsaso]

Yay. Another fantastic review by WBE. Can't wait!

They're not as sexy as the ones I used to make once upon a time, but they're certainly WAY more reliable!:biggrin:

I can't wait to find out what Ems did to pervy ol' Xavier!

[maigen]

HAHAHAHAHAHA screw the brandy, set down the bottle of George Dickel and let me just ingest the whole thing.

George Dickel...dear god...


Twas the first thing I got drunk on. Nastiness.

And YAY! I'm go glad Legacy won!

[LawGiver]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/465000/images/_468284_eric_idle_woman150.jpg

"Oh no, I don't think I like the sound of that!"

This would be one thing if we were getting new information on Xavier, the stuff with Sinister was atleast interesting, until Mr. Sinister got his nuts ripped off and went Ru Paul, then he really started to lose me. This current arc has just highlighted all the underlying problems with this story arc. If you are trying to put Xavier back, clearly, on the side of good, having him go down each and every memory where he crossed a line or didn't live up to his promise and explain to someone, i.e. Emma Frost, is not the answer, nor is it entertaining.

Then to have it all end, all end with a handshake and a figurative slap on the ass to Cyclops, come on, I know Carey is a talented writer, I know he has written some good things, but let us not excuse a bad story soley because we like some of his other work. This just isn't a good story.

[LordAllMighty]

If this doesn't end with Charles forcefully kicking Emma out of his head, I will be disappointed.:mad:

[LawGiver]

If this doesn't end with Charles forcefully kicking Emma out of his head, I will be disappointed.:mad:



*passed a glass of George Dickel*

Get ready to drink.

[Beast]

I don't mind seeing Xavier confront some of his dirty deeds over the years.
But hopefully this is the end of the 'Douchebag Xavier' era. It's really been beaten into the ground.

Seems like both Iron Man and Professor X have become mustache twirlers almost at this rate.

Can't say I'm pleased that Carey's still forging ahead with his extreme retcon to Xavier's mindwipe.

[darknessatnoon]

Excuse me WBE, but does Emma happen to mention Xavier's crimes against Tessa?

[Henry T.]

Excuse me WBE, but does Emma happen to mention Xavier's crimes against Tessa?

No. :frown:

[LawGiver]

Excuse me WBE, but does Emma happen to mention Xavier's crimes against Tessa?

Carey is only covering scenes that took place in previous comics, nothing new, sorry.

[Beast]

The day that Cyclops got back to the mansion, after escaping Krakoa (as it was revealed in X-Men: Deadly Genesis #6). He got away, but left Alex and Jean behind, and just after learning he had a brother named Gabriel, Scott watched him die. Or so he thought.

Xavier feels so guilty about this one, he actually starts reliving it, rather than watching it dispassionately with Emma, finding himself in the wheelchair in the memory. He doesn't even try arguing with her, but she points out his defense would be that Scott needed to be on his feet to lead a team back in to rescue those who were still alive... and that's why he went ahead and played God again, and forced Scott to forget Gabriel, so he could cope.
Glad that Carey clarified again for those who who refuse to accept what was shown in Deadly Genisis and consider Xaver's mindwipe of Scott there to be yet another doucebag move on his part. Though ignore that what Xavier notes is exactly the case. Scott was a basket case in a catatonic state. Xavier did it for his own good in that case. Which as some have said is perfectly understandable when you consider Xavier as Scott's psychologist at the time. Corsair agreeing that Scott and Alex didn't need to know even enforces the fact that it was the right choice. Of course, who know that Vulcan was gonna turn up alive.
Xavier tries to just say he's guilty to be done with it, and Emma knows he's trying to avoid really thinking about it, so she goes full-on with memories, showing him when he killed Cassandra Nova in the womb (revealed in X-Men (vol. 2) #121)
I hate when the Cassie Nova thing is brought up...

Given she was trying to kill him in the womb and Xavier simply reacted to defend himself.

[jester1436]

Oh my god!

I've unearthed another lost Xavier memory!

http://i37.tinypic.com/2zhmhs8.jpg

[Red Lotus]

This wasn't real a fight. In a way I kind think Xavier use Emma to help him recover some memories. It was too easy it was more like he went a long with her to find out about his self. As for the end it felt more like Xavier telling Scott I know the X-men or yours now and I am going to stay out your way kind of thing. Kind of like how MC would have ended if Xavier didn't get his head blown off.

This was horrible. I am dropping this book right now. Another issue of a trip down memory lane with Xavier? It would be one thing if it was memories I hadn't seen or knew already, but this is nothing new, nothing. Then to end it off with a handshake with Scott? A handshake? That's how they put their damn differences behind? Just like that? Utterly pathetic, how anyone can call this the "Thinking Man's" title is beyond me. I don't even wanna touch on the Emma slapping Xavier, as much as I like her, she has absolutely no soap box to stand on, none.

I quit Carey. You had me following you blinding, but everything you've done post MC in Legacy has been crap. I'll read Secret Invasion: X-Men for your good stuff.

Isn't the whole point of the book Xavier going down memory lane to trying to find who he is and was.

[maigen]

Oh my god!

I've unearthed another lost Xavier memory!

http://i37.tinypic.com/2zhmhs8.jpg

That is the funniest thing ever.

Seriously.

And since when does Emma care about being vulgar?

Although I actually have the comic with that memory in it, I am tickled pink just to see her mentioned!!!

Can we fast forward to 220 now? I've never been very patient.

[darknessatnoon]

Glad that Carey clarified again for those who who refuse to accept what was shown in Deadly Genisis and consider Xaver's mindwipe of Scott there to be yet another doucebag move on his part. Though ignore that what Xavier notes is exactly the case. Scott was a basket case in a catatonic state. Xavier did it for his own good in that case. Which as some have said is perfectly understandable when you consider Xavier as Scott's psychologist at the time. Corsair agreeing that Scott and Alex didn't need to know even enforces the fact that it was the right choice. Of course, who know that Vulcan was gonna turn up alive.

I hate when the Cassie Nova thing is brought up...

Given she was trying to kill him in the womb and Xavier simply reacted to defend himself.

I don't know of any psychologists who would think that wiping out a traumatic memory is a good way for someone to recover. How would you like it if someone (mind) raped you for your own good? Obviously you'd thank them.

[Hi-Fi]

Excuse me WBE, but does Emma happen to mention Xavier's crimes against Tessa?
Nope. Only important characters are mentioned.

[LawGiver]

This wasn't real a fight. In a way I kind think Xavier use Emma to help him recover some memories. It was too easy it was more like he went a long with her to find out about his self. As for the end it felt more like Xavier telling Scott I know the X-men or yours now and I am going to stay out your way kind of thing. Kind of like how MC would have ended if Xavier didn't get his head blown off.



Isn't the whole point of the book Xavier going down memory lane to trying to find who he is and was.

I understand that is the plot of the book, it still stinks.

[Beast]

Nope. Only important characters are mentioned.
Cassandra Nova's important?

[darknessatnoon]

Nope. Only important characters are mentioned.

You're late to the party.

[Red Lotus]

Glad that Carey clarified again for those who who refuse to accept what was shown in Deadly Genisis and consider Xaver's mindwipe of Scott there to be yet another doucebag move on his part. Though ignore that what Xavier notes is exactly the case. Scott was a basket case in a catatonic state. Xavier did it for his own good in that case. Which as some have said is perfectly understandable when you consider Xavier as Scott's psychologist at the time. Corsair agreeing that Scott and Alex didn't need to know even enforces the fact that it was the right choice. Of course, who know that Vulcan was gonna turn up alive.



At the same time Xavier did it as much for himself since he needed Scott. He didn't have time to nurse Scott back so he went with the quick way.

[worstblogever]

Excuse me WBE, but does Emma happen to mention Xavier's crimes against Tessa?

He still has a swiss cheese memory, and Tessa is lost in one of the holes.

If he wasn't so busy trying to fend off Mr. Sinister, he could've plucked some choice ones of her from Sebastian Shaw's mind last arc.

Way to drop the ball, Chuck.

[Beast]

I don't know of any psychologists who would think that wiping out a traumatic memory is a good way for someone to recover. How would you like it if someone (mind) raped you for your own good? Obviously you'd thank them.
If you haven't noticed, psychologists in our world don't have telepathic abilities.

Just something to take note of.

[CMBMOOL]

This wasn't real a fight. In a way I kind think Xavier use Emma to help him recover some memories. It was too easy it was more like he went a long with her to find out about his self. As for the end it felt more like Xavier telling Scott I know the X-men or yours now and I am going to stay out your way kind of thing. Kind of like how MC would have ended if Xavier didn't get his head blown off.






Well it seems well thought out though that Xavier used Emma for his own mental needs.

Still, it does seemed that Xavier seems foolish enough to leave the team in Scott's hands, considering the whole X-force secret thing.:redface:

[LawGiver]

If you haven't noticed, psychologists in our world don't have telepathic abilities.

Just something to take note of.

You could say that burying a memory is the same as getting rid of it. You still aren't dealing with it, you aren't getting past it. Most psychologists would say it's best not to bury these things, put them out in the open, deal with it.

[Hi-Fi]

Cassandra Nova's important?
Yes, she is. She put Beast in his place.

[Beast]

At the same time Xavier did it as much for himself since he needed Scott. He didn't have time to nurse Scott back so he went with the quick way.
Oh, I definatly agree that Xavier did it as much for himself as he did for Scott.

He also did it for Jean, Bobby, Warren, Havok, and Lorna. Who would have died otherwise.

[Beast]

Yes, she is. She put Beast in his place.
Bah. Next you'll try to tell me Rogue's important. Where is she if she's so important! :wink:

Just givin' ya crap, Hi-Fi. When's the Rogue arc supposed to happen again?

[maigen]

I give Xavier points for shaking Scotts hand. After all I'm sure he knows where its been.

[worstblogever]

He also did it for Jean, Bobby, Warren, Havok, and Lorna. Who would have died otherwise.

Which, even Emma admits to this part. She also admits that it doesn't make it "right".

[Henry T.]

It wasn't a direct fight but Emma basically did to Xavier what Jean did to her in New X-Men #139. Emma made him relive painful memories and made him take a really hard look at himself. The difference was that Emma sneaked into his mind and placed a bunch of booby traps in there since Xavier is technically more powerful than her.

Emma did help him in a way by bringing his shattered memories together and confirming that Mr. Sinister wasn't influencing him. But he still begged for her to stop just like she did with Jean. It was funny when she slapped him across the face.

I expected Emma to own Xavier due to how she's been portrayed lately. If she can out skill Rachel, Sinister, and Exodus then why not Xavier?

I liked the flashback to Moira's death. I never thought they'd flashback to Jean when she had the shadow form and Phoenix eye tattoo. I thought they'd ignore that Jean ever had it and act like it was exclusive imagery for Rachel.

I also liked that Xavier shared with Scott and Emma the earlier flashback to Jean that was in Legacy where she tells him sometimes death and birth are the same thing. I liked how Scott basically says that Jean would know.

Poor Xavier does get depicted as a pathetic jerk a lot lately though.

[Beast]

Which, even Emma admits to this part. She also admits that it doesn't make it "right".
Now Jean needs to come back and rake Emma over the coals again like in New X-Men.

Cause even though Emma makes a few refrences to her past, she's a hell of a lot dirtier than Chuck.

[Agent_Torpor]

Imported tibetan tea and english scones on sundays!

I'm so there. Will I be turned away for wearing my monocle (and nothing else)?

P.S. The "THINKING MAN'S X-BOOK" © never fails me.

[darknessatnoon]

I'm so there. Will I be turned away for wearing my monocle (and nothing else)?

No. Not as long as the monocle, too, may be removed.

[lxk]

Huh. When Jean did basically the same thing to Emma, both Frostie and Scottie were furious. Now they're both ok with doing stuff like it. Good to know.

Of course, coming from the woman who keeps losing students over and over and the guy who organized a death squad but threw out his mentor for being secretive... not much of a surprise, really.

When did these people forget to learn from theirs and others mistakes?

[CMBMOOL]

Now Jean needs to come back and rake Emma over the coals again like in New X-Men.

Cause even though Emma makes a few refrences to her past, she's a hell of a lot dirtier than Chuck.
Amen, Beast, Amen to that fact. :biggrin:

[CMBMOOL]

It wasn't a direct fight but Emma basically did to Xavier what Jean did to her in New X-Men #139. Emma made him relive painful memories and made him take a really hard look at himself. The difference was that Emma sneaked into his mind and placed a bunch of booby traps in there since Xavier is technically more powerful than her.

Emma did help him in a way by bringing his shattered memories together and confirming that Mr. Sinister wasn't influencing him. But he still begged for her to stop just like she did with Jean. It was funny when she slapped him across the face.

I expected Emma to own Xavier due to how she's been portrayed lately. If she can out skill Rachel, Sinister, and Exodus then why not Xavier?

I liked the flashback to Moira's death. I never thought they'd flashback to Jean when she had the shadow form and Phoenix eye tattoo. I thought they'd ignore that Jean ever had it and act like it was exclusive imagery for Rachel.

I also liked that Xavier shared with Scott and Emma the earlier flashback to Jean that was in Legacy where she tells him sometimes death and birth are the same thing. I liked how Scott basically says that Jean would know.

Poor Xavier does get depicted as a pathetic jerk a lot lately though.
Nice well thought out about the issue Henry and thanks again WBE for the info. :biggrin:

[Beast]

Huh. When Jean did basically the same thing to Emma, both Frostie and Scottie were furious. Now they're both ok with doing stuff like it. Good to know.

Of course, coming from the woman who keeps losing students over and over and the guy who organized a death squad but threw out his mentor for being secretive... not much of a surprise, really.

When did these people forget to learn from theirs and others mistakes?
Indeed. Scott and Emma are the most hypocritical X-Men alive.

[Hi-Fi]

Huh. When Jean did basically the same thing to Emma, both Frostie and Scottie were furious. Now they're both ok with doing stuff like it. Good to know.

Of course, coming from the woman who keeps losing students over and over and the guy who organized a death squad but threw out his mentor for being secretive... not much of a surprise, really.

When did these people forget to learn from theirs and others mistakes?
Great avatar!

And yes, all the people who whined about Jean being mean to Emma, I expect the same reaction now.

[Beast]

Huh. When Jean did basically the same thing to Emma, both Frostie and Scottie were furious. Now they're both ok with doing stuff like it. Good to know.

Of course, coming from the woman who keeps losing students over and over and the guy who organized a death squad but threw out his mentor for being secretive... not much of a surprise, really.

When did these people forget to learn from theirs and others mistakes?
Indeed. Scott and Emma are the most hypocritical X-Men alive.

I'm just waiting for Scott and Emma to pull the "Mom & Dad" excuse.

"Do as I say, Not as I do!"

[darknessatnoon]

Great avatar!

And yes, all the people who whined about Jean being mean to Emma, I expect the same reaction now.

I don't know how you can believe that after learning about Xavier's crimes against Rogue. Jean did it to humiliate Emma. Emma is doing this for security reasons. What would Laura Roslin do, Hi Fi?

[Red Lotus]

Now Jean needs to come back and rake Emma over the coals again like in New X-Men.

Cause even though Emma makes a few refrences to her past, she's a hell of a lot dirtier than Chuck.

I think there is a great line in this issue where Emma tells Xavier that "Our sins are greater because our reach is greater" Xavier reach went beyond his power so he should be put to a much higher standard.

[DeniseXfrost]

Great avatar!

And yes, all the people who whined about Jean being mean to Emma, I expect the same reaction now.
Emma wanted to know if Sinister's still in Xaiver's head. By invading his mind, she also helped put pieces of his memory together. Obviously, the bold man should be greateful.

[Beast]

I think there is a great line in this issue where Emma tells Xavier that "Our sins are greater because our reach is greater" Xavier reach went beyond his power so he should be put to a much higher standard.
Regardless, Emma's sins are a hell of a lot greater than Xavier's.

It's funny how Scott's always "No More Second Chances for Villains!"

Yet he's sleeping with Emma "White Queen" Frost.

[DeniseXfrost]

Regardless, Emma's sins are a hell of a lot greater than Xavier's.

It's funny how Scott's always "No More Second Chances for Villains!"

Yet he's sleeping with Emma "White Queen" Frost.
It's only official and effective after his speech :wink:

Obviously, Emma doesn't wanna see any wanne be villians trying to turn good.

[dellicious]

Regardless, Emma's sins are a hell of a lot greater than Xavier's.

It's funny how Scott's always "No More Second Chances for Villains!"

Yet he's sleeping with Emma "White Queen" Frost.

Word. This issue makes me hate scott and emma even more. I didn't think it was possible.

[Hi-Fi]

I don't know how you can believe that after learning about Xavier's crimes against Rogue. Jean did it to humiliate Emma. Emma is doing this for security reasons. What would Laura Roslin do, Hi Fi?
I don't agree with this continuous direction of revealing Charles as a bad guy at every corner, even though I think his conversation with Rogue makes sense.

And please. Emma is doing it to humiliate Xavier. Don't kid yourself. Her reasons are different than her husband's.

[Pach!]

Regardless, Emma's sins are a hell of a lot greater than Xavier's.

It's funny how Scott's always "No More Second Chances for Villains!"

Yet he's sleeping with Emma "White Queen" Frost.

I think the no more implies that he knows that villains have already been given second chances. I'd imagine if she turned into a villain and then back to a hero the door would be shut in her face. Or maybe not. The editors seem to like her.

[CMBMOOL]

Huh. When Jean did basically the same thing to Emma, both Frostie and Scottie were furious. Now they're both ok with doing stuff like it. Good to know.

Of course, coming from the woman who keeps losing students over and over and the guy who organized a death squad but threw out his mentor for being secretive... not much of a surprise, really.

When did these people forget to learn from theirs and others mistakes?
I'm afriad not, I mean come on they are just repeating the past and it may come out to be the same reaction if people learned the truth about it. :frown:

[Charybdis4]

And the winner of Marvels Super Hypocrite of the Year goes to..........Emma!

Have the X-editors decided to retcon her whole "I was an evil genius who tried to kill the X-Men numerous times, brainwashed & tortured my students & killed Firestar's pony" back story????

I love Carey's writing & am looking forward to Rogue taking front & centre in this comic, but I can't buy an issue with Emma lording it up.

[dellicious]

I don't know how you can believe that after learning about Xavier's crimes against Rogue. Jean did it to humiliate Emma. Emma is doing this for security reasons. What would Laura Roslin do, Hi Fi?

if I recall Jean did it to find out if Scott and Emma had slept together in Hong Kong since she just walked in on them mind fucking.

[darknessatnoon]

I don't agree with this continuous direction of revealing Charles as a bad guy at every corner, even though I think his conversation with Rogue makes sense.

And please. Emma is doing it to humiliate Xavier. Don't kid yourself. Her reasons are different than her husband's.

Scott is not Emma's husband! Emma is a swinger! Are you against Civil Unions?! Is this a pro-Gay Marriage post?

[CMBMOOL]

Word. This issue makes me hate scott and emma even more. I didn't think it was possible.
In a way I can agree with you on that.

[CMBMOOL]

I think the no more implies that he knows that villains have already been given second chances. I'd imagine if she turned into a villain and then back to a hero the door would be shut in her face. Or maybe not. The editors seem to like her.
Sort of like her future partnership in the Evil version of the Illuminati. :biggrin:

[lxk]

Great avatar!

And yes, all the people who whined about Jean being mean to Emma, I expect the same reaction now.

I don't know how you can believe that after learning about Xavier's crimes against Rogue. Jean did it to humiliate Emma. Emma is doing this for security reasons. What would Laura Roslin do, Hi Fi?
__________________

If Rogue had showed up at current Cyclops' door, he'd have thrown her in jail or have Logan try to kill her. Discrepancy there.

and Emma saying "I own you"? If that doesn't sound as if there's some personal reasons behind it...

And yes, the ol' Captain makes for good avatar, thanks.

[Beast]

It's only official and effective after his speech :wink:

Obviously, Emma doesn't wanna see any wanne be villians trying to turn good.
Of course! It would spoil her former villain position in the X-Men.

Obviously she's been manipulating Carey to push back Rogue's arc, for the same reason.

That's also why Juggernaut's gone bad again. It's all Emma's fault. She's devious!

[maigen]

Of course! It would spoil her former villain position in the X-Men.

Obviously she's been manipulating Carey to push back Rogue's arc, for the same reason.

That's also why Juggernaut's gone bad again. It's all Emma's fault. She's devious!

AHA! That's it. Damn that White Queen tempting Carey with illusions of grandeur if he ignores lil ole Roguey.

I hope Rogue and Mystie make up. I wuv her.

[Charybdis4]

Scott needs to take Emma's Parisian support bra off his visor & wake up!

[Red Lotus]

Regardless, Emma's sins are a hell of a lot greater than Xavier's.

It's funny how Scott's always "No More Second Chances for Villains!"

Yet he's sleeping with Emma "White Queen" Frost.

That was aimed more at we are not going to open the door and give the villains another chances to screw us over (There is joke about Emma in here but Its to easy so I'm going to just skip past it) cause every time we have let them in at some point they turn on us.

I think the no more implies that he knows that villains have already been given second chances. I'd imagine if she turned into a villain and then back to a hero the door would be shut in her face. Or maybe not. The editors seem to like her.

I do think if Emma did turn back evil Scott would be the first one to sick his attack dogs on her.

I don't agree with this continuous direction of revealing Charles as a bad guy at every corner, even though I think his conversation with Rogue makes sense.

And please. Emma is doing it to humiliate Xavier. Don't kid yourself. Her reasons are different than her husband's.

I dont think she was doing this to humiliate Xavier, but I do think she got a kick out being able to put him in his place while making sure Sinister wasn't in his mind. A part her wanted to teach Xavier a lesson and a part of Xavier needed to hear what she had to say.

[MartinRedmond]

Jean did it to humiliate Emma.

That alone, is a very legitimate reason for Jean's action. Go Jean! Righteous host of all that's true.
http://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/heart/maryHeart.jpg

Chuck was going to squeeze Emma's implant and say :"Suck it, dollarstore dye job ho!" Alas, he has too much class for that. He settled for faking a friendship just so both nutjobs'll leave him the hell alone. At what price peace, Charles??

[MartinRedmond]

part of Xavier needed to hear what she had to say.

Obviously, Emma's much better than him at getting her own underage students killed, locking people up in her dungeon, taking over other women's bodies for rape, torturing people for information, conveniently sweeping all of her own past under the rug and so on. She's a saint!!! :)

[lxk]

I dont think she was doing this to humiliate Xavier, but I do think she got a kick out being able to put him in his place while making sure Sinister wasn't in his mind. A part her wanted to teach Xavier a lesson and a part of Xavier needed to hear what she had to say.

I agree with you there... which puts her on the same level as Jean in spite of her supposedly good goals.

If I had an auditor who went through all of my questionable receipts (not that I have any, mind you) whilst taking glee in pointing out my flaws, I probably wouldn't shake his hand after the review. Emma could have done it without trying to break the man.

And is this really how you find remnants of a psychic dude hiding in someone else's head? Forcing them to watch all their mistakes?

[worstblogever]

I agree with you there... which puts her on the same level as Jean in spite of her supposedly good goals.

If I had an auditor who went through all of my questionable receipts (not that I have any, mind you) whilst taking glee in pointing out my flaws, I probably wouldn't shake his hand after the review. Emma could have done it without trying to break the man.

And is this really how you find remnants of a psychic dude hiding in someone else's head? Forcing them to watch all their mistakes?

Not quite. You force them to watch their mistakes while you belittle them, and occasionally slap the taste out of their mouth.

It just adds that little bit of "oomph" to get the job done.

[darknessatnoon]

Emma has a unique pedagogical style. I'm sure in the end it will have helped Xavier to man up a bit.

[lxk]

Not quite. You force them to watch their mistakes while you belittle them, and occasionally slap the taste out of their mouth.

It just adds that little bit of "oomph" to get the job done.

Heh, yeah...

That should be Jean's defense when she gets back (whenever that may be). "Nooo, I wasn't trying to humiliate you.... Just checking to see if Shadow King or whoever was in there. Nuthin' else. No harm no foul, right? Shake hands?"

[worstblogever]

Heh, yeah...

That should be Jean's defense when she gets back (whenever that may be). "Nooo, I wasn't trying to humiliate you.... Just checking to see if Shadow King or whoever was in there. Nuthin' else. No harm no foul, right? Shake hands?"

I'm all for it, especially if Jean shows Emma what Butter Rum was going through as he died. If she can show Juggernaut how tortured animals feel during their death throes, why not Ems?

It would be the X-comic of the year.

[DeniseXfrost]

Emma being a hypocrite or not, it doesn't take away what she says to Xaiver. Just because your doctor is a smelly old geezer doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to his advice.

[Daithi]

I would have preferred Scott to be the one talking to Xavier during it. Have Emma silent and keeping the psy-shields up or probing for Sinister or whatever.

Scott's take on what happened would have been more interesting for me.

[MartinRedmond]

Emma being a hypocrite or not, it doesn't take away what she says to Xaiver. Just because your doctor is a smelly old geezer doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to his advice.

More like going to a doctor who's been sued for malpractice several times over, thinking you won't get a botched surgery.

[worstblogever]

I would have preferred Scott to be the one talking to Xavier during it. Have Emma silent and keeping the psy-shields up or probing for Sinister or whatever.

Scott's take on what happened would have been more interesting for me.

Scott wouldn't have been so brutal. I preferred it this way, it made every character, including Scott, look strong. (Scott because of his reactions to Emma's "work", and the end, where he found it in himself to forgive Charles).

[Beast]

I would have preferred Scott to be the one talking to Xavier during it. Have Emma silent and keeping the psy-shields up or probing for Sinister or whatever.

Scott's take on what happened would have been more interesting for me.
Scott: "You weren't to hard on him, were you?"

Emma: ... "Not at all, darling."

Scott: "Well, it sorta looked like he was being tortured there at the end."

Emma: "Nonsense! I just had some.. difficulty getting through his defenses."

Scott: "I'm not entirely...."

Emma opens her top, causing Scott to stare and drool a bit. "What were we talking about?"

Emma grabs Scott and puts his head between her boobs. Which we finally see for the first time on panel. We discover that Emma's breasts actually double as hypnotic spirals.

Emma's Boobs:

http://www.thetaworks.net/spiral_main.jpg http://www.thetaworks.net/spiral_main.jpg

[DeniseXfrost]

Scott: "You weren't to hard on him, were you?"

Emma: ... "Not at all, darling."

Scott: "Well, it sorta looked like he was being tortured there at the end."

Emma: "Nonsense! I just had some.. difficulty getting through his defenses."

Scott: "I'm not entirely...."

Emma opens her top, causing Scott to stare and drool a bit. "What were we talking about?"

Emma grabs Scott and puts his head between her boobs. Which we finally see for the first time on panel. We discover that Emma's breasts actually double as hypnotic spirals.

Emma's Boobs:

http://www.thetaworks.net/spiral_main.jpg http://www.thetaworks.net/spiral_main.jpg
Now, I'm wondering what Beast's ding ding would look like.

[Saturius]

This issue just left a bad taste in my mouth, although I already went into the issue a little biased cause I think it's ridiculous that people like Scott and Emma are lecturing Xavier. Emma was obviously the only one who could do it cause she's the only telepath left, but this just made me really dislike her. She was defintely classic Emma though. An a-grade bitch while she rifled through Xavier's memory. For someone who's done far worse, she shouldn't have been acting like that. To be fair to Scott, he didn't know she was forcing him to relve his mistakes. Maybe if he had he would've stopped her. Or maybe he wouldn't have. They've done such a number on Scott lately I just can't tell anymore. Xavier has been dumped on long enough. Hopefully this is the last of all this nonsense. It's now time for Scott and Emma to be put in their places.

[worstblogever]

Now, I'm wondering what Beast's ding ding would look like.

Something like Grover's finger. (http://groverismale.ytmnd.com/)

[Agent_Torpor]

Carey's giving us some real meat here, making us intensely dislike Scott & Emma - unlike Uncanny, where all the writers there seem content to do with the characters is to nauseate us.

[Beast]

Carey's giving us some real meat here, making us intensely dislike Scott & Emma - unlike Uncanny, where all the writers there seem content to do with the characters is to nauseate us.
Which is funny, cause Carey loves Scott about as much as he does Rogue and Beast.

[Leirus]

Well, we have checked with Magnus (Max?), Exodus and Voght
We have seen Sinister death and rebirth
We have witnessed the start of his reconciliation with Cyclops...

I can not wait for Rogue. stupid editorial mandated crossovers...:mad:

[Novaya Havoc]

I'm having a Virginia Slim menthol and a sifter of brandy as I digest the latest Carey opus.

Mentholated cigarettes are for the common man.

This is an uncommon book.

How dare you.

[RickyD410]

This was a good issue. I LOVED the art. And the writing was all top notch as well. As someone who hasnt read all of X-Continuity, this was very interesting to me. I got to see some important pieces of X-History, but through a lens completely different from what it was originally seen through.

My only (small) problem is that I just dont think Emma had the right to do all this stuff. After her history, and her sins, what gives her the right to judge?

[worstblogever]

This was a good issue. I LOVED the art. And the writing was all top notch as well. As someone who hasnt read all of X-Continuity, this was very interesting to me. I got to see some important pieces of X-History, but through a lens completely different from what it was originally seen through.

My only (small) problem is that I just dont think Emma had the right to do all this stuff. After her history, and her sins, what gives her the right to judge?

That was part of Emma's point. She doesn't have the "right" to judge. Neither does Xavier. But sometimes, you can't "lift yourself by your own bootstraps" and it's easier for someone else to find the right "fulcrum".

Her own words. Anybody else could have done it, but really, Emma's the most "grey" character currently to do so brutally, and to effect. Exodus and Sinister, in previous issues, showed Charles his past, but they did so to try to subdue him to their own will. Emma never had the intention of forcing Charles to do anything but look at himself.

[MartinRedmond]

Yes, grey area, just like a restaurant employee spitting in the soup. Nothing douchebaggy about that! Completely grey area!

[worstblogever]

Yes, grey area, just like a restaurant employee spitting in the soup. Nothing douchebaggy about that! Completely grey area!

She could have tried to give him a psychic lobotomy. That would be "black".

This was a verbal bitchslap. That's "grey".

Now go troll somewhere else.

[Michael P]

I have to say, I'm not at all looking forward to this little crossover coming up.

[Beast]

I have to say, I'm not at all looking forward to this little crossover coming up.
I'll read it, but I'm not jumping for joy either. Especially since I loathe Daken.

And Wolverine, I'm not huge on either.

[Michael P]

I'll read it, but I'm not jumping for joy either. Especially since I loathe Daken.

And Wolverine, I'm not huge on either.

I'm thinking of just skipping it.

[worstblogever]

I have to say, I'm not at all looking forward to this little crossover coming up.

I read Wolverine:Origins #27... and the art was nice... but it strikes me that it will just be Wolverine AND Xavier going through what some call "continuity wonk" together with a few (and I mean few) new revelations.

But there's more being revealed about Romulus, at least. He had an interest in Xavier's "operation".

[The Black Guardian]

Another great issue! Everything I could have hoped for.

I'll be skipping most of the upcoming crossover, because I really couldn't be less interested in Wolverine.

[Beast]

I read Wolverine:Origins #27... and the art was nice... but it strikes me that it will just be Wolverine AND Xavier going through what some call "continuity wonk" together with a few (and I mean few) new revelations.

But there's more being revealed about Romulus, at least. He had an interest in Xavier's "operation".
Sex change?

Xavier thought his sister was smoking hot in a safari outfit, and decided to follow suit?

[worstblogever]

Sex change?

Xavier thought his sister was smoking hot in a safari outfit, and decided to follow suit?

Not that "operation".

But well played, sir. :smile:

[Beast]

Not that "operation".

But well played, sir. :smile:
It's his way of getting back in Scott's good graces.

Xavier knows that Scott can't say no to a hot telepath. Just wait til the red wig comes in.

[frog]

I found my issue of Legacy waiting on me at home (as well as last week's X-Factor, go figure). I thought it was an excellent resolution to Xavier's self-searching before the book embarks on a new direction.

Emma wasn't intending to do Xavier any favors but I believe that's exactly what she did. She took him back to some of his darkest moments. He was forced to confront the fact that he did things that were unethical and made choices for the X-Men that were not really his to make, even though he intended all to be for their good. Up until now, Xavier probably was not grasping entirely the greatness of the gulf that has opened between he and Scott. He also has finally acknowledged that Scott now is the leader that Xavier trained him to be.

I don't find this to paint Xavier in a villianious light as much as others seem to do. He was doing what he believed was right for all, and he has recognized what this has done to people he cares about. That's the danger of taking the leadership role. When you are wrong it's not just you that is impacted.

Cyclops taking Xavier's hand at the end is something that will probably be very significant in the future, considering Scott has been going in a direction that is very likely to lead to regrets and a rift among the X-men - just like his mentor did before.

I enjoyed this greatly. Not an action issue, but very satisfying.




And by the way, did we hear Emma admit that she's not young anymore?

[worstblogever]

I found my issue of Legacy waiting on me at home (as well as last week's X-Factor, go figure). I thought it was an excellent resolution to Xavier's self-searching before the book embarks on a new direction.

Emma wasn't intending to do Xavier any favors but I believe that's exactly what she did.

Yeah, letting Xavier have back the lost memory he couldn't put together about Moira's final moments telling him she loved him was something that I don't think anyone can say was a "That darned **** Emma!" moment.

Again, I stand by my statement that she came off as grey, but saying some unpleasant truths in this issue.


And I follow that statement up saying I like Xavier, Jean, and Emma. Equally. So there.

[CmX]

Liked the issue it was really decent. Yeah there's no action, but this title is busting at the seams with solid characterization.

I don't care at all for the next storyline, I'll only be picking up the Legacy issues but I'm not going to support Way's craptastic writing.

[lxk]

Again, I stand by my statement that she came off as grey, but saying some unpleasant truths in this issue.

I'll stand by that statement as well - there is no denying that Xavier has skeletons in his closet that needs to be addressed, and that Emma's behavior was a bit grey (at best).

My question is: Does this book need more grey? I mean...

Charlie has been dumped, shot, mindf**ked by Exodus and almost got Sinister stuck.
The only people who have come close to helping him are Magneto, Karima, Gambit and Shaw... And except for Karima, those aren't exactly people I'd call to help me change the oil in my car.
And now... two of the dwindling number of people he probably believed he could really trust mindf**k him again?
He's got partial amnesia and all everybody's telling him is that he's an assh*le of grand proportions. I would be surprised if this book doesn't end with Chuck either regrets aver getting involved with saving the world or taking a shotgun and cobaining himself. Can't anyone tell him "Hey, when you founded the X-men and helped save the world all those times? Good going, man"?

If Chuck is really going to rediscover himself, someone needs to tell him that and soon. Chuck deserves some chicken soup for the soul.

[worstblogever]

I'll stand by that statement as well - there is no denying that Xavier has skeletons in his closet that needs to be addressed, and that Emma's behavior was a bit grey (at best).

My question is: Does this book need more grey? I mean...

Charlie has been dumped, shot, mindf**ked by Exodus and almost got Sinister stuck.
The only people who have come close to helping him are Magneto, Karima, Gambit and Shaw... And except for Karima, those aren't exactly people I'd call to help me change the oil in my car.
And now... two of the dwindling number of people he probably believed he could really trust mindf**k him again?
He's got partial amnesia and all everybody's telling him is that he's an assh*le of grand proportions. I would be surprised if this book doesn't end with Chuck either regrets aver getting involved with saving the world or taking a shotgun and cobaining himself. Can't anyone tell him "Hey, when you founded the X-men and helped save the world all those times? Good going, man"?

If Chuck is really going to rediscover himself, someone needs to tell him that and soon. Chuck deserves some chicken soup for the soul.

Nobody said the road to redemption was a pleasant one, I guess.

Xavier's made plenty of "jerk" moments, as Kitty Pryde would call them. Having him reflect on his errors only makes him capable of admitting them, and trying to not duplicate them.

And, who knows, after he gets his nose rubbed in them for another twelve issues or so, maybe then, he'll get invited back to SFX and be the team's conscience again, knowing where all the lines you shouldn't cross are.

Having crossed them, regrettably, once himself.

Failing that, it will revert to X-Men (vol. 2) and the redeemed Xavier will walk into Marvel: The Illuminati again.

[frog]

I'll stand by that statement as well - there is no denying that Xavier has skeletons in his closet that needs to be addressed, and that Emma's behavior was a bit grey (at best).

My question is: Does this book need more grey? I mean...

Charlie has been dumped, shot, mindf**ked by Exodus and almost got Sinister stuck.
The only people who have come close to helping him are Magneto, Karima, Gambit and Shaw... And except for Karima, those aren't exactly people I'd call to help me change the oil in my car.
And now... two of the dwindling number of people he probably believed he could really trust mindf**k him again?
He's got partial amnesia and all everybody's telling him is that he's an assh*le of grand proportions. I would be surprised if this book doesn't end with Chuck either regrets aver getting involved with saving the world or taking a shotgun and cobaining himself. Can't anyone tell him "Hey, when you founded the X-men and helped save the world all those times? Good going, man"?

If Chuck is really going to rediscover himself, someone needs to tell him that and soon. Chuck deserves some chicken soup for the soul.

I don't see that happening. Xavier just managed to make a separate peace with Cyclops. That handshake has "beginning of redemption" all over it. I think that it's more likely we see Xavier work on coming to terms with what he's done in the past by trying to do better in the present.

[lxk]

Xavier's made plenty of "jerk" moments, as Kitty Pryde would call them. Having him reflect on his errors only makes him capable of admitting them, and trying to not duplicate them.

And, who knows, after he gets his nose rubbed in them for another twelve issues or so, maybe then, he'll get invited back to SFX and be the team's conscience again, knowing where all the lines you shouldn't cross are.


I don't see that happening. Xavier just managed to make a separate peace with Cyclops. That handshake has "beginning of redemption" all over it. I think that it's more likely we see Xavier work on coming to terms with what he's done in the past by trying to do better in the present.

I don't see that happening either, to be honest (though just imagine what kind of a shock issue that would be!).

And yes, he does have a lot of soulsearching to do, there's no question about that. But if this trend of both enemies and friends doing their best to make Xavier feel lousy about himself... It's like an excruciatingly long intervention, only without the loving support of anyone. And in the end, the best he can get is a handshake and a truce?

If this is supposed to be an honest look at Xavier, his good sides have to come into account at some point, don't they? Right now it's just "X-men: F**k Chuck!" and it's getting a little too one-sided.

[worstblogever]

I don't see that happening either, to be honest (though just imagine what kind of a shock issue that would be!).

And yes, he does have a lot of soulsearching to do, there's no question about that. But if this trend of both enemies and friends doing their best to make Xavier feel lousy about himself... It's like an excruciatingly long intervention, only without the loving support of anyone. And in the end, the best he can get is a handshake and a truce?

If this is supposed to be an honest look at Xavier, his good sides have to come into account at some point, don't they? Right now it's just "X-men: F**k Chuck!" and it's getting a little too one-sided.

We'll get to see him help unlock Logan's past, though during the crossover.

Chuck-Bomb's day is comin'. He's not going to be a punching bag for the rest of his existence. Mike Carey's not writing this because he hates the character for this long, to be sure.

While Scott has become "the" leader. Xavier still should be the philosopher to seek wisdom from, though. I hope the long term will only work to define that.

Incidentally, you totally need to post more, man. :)

[lxk]

We'll get to see him help unlock Logan's past, though during the crossover.

Chuck-Bomb's day is comin'. He's not going to be a punching bag for the rest of his existence. Mike Carey's not writing this because he hates the character for this long, to be sure.


Sure hope so. Don't know much about the crossover (Wolverine-centric crossover? If they had thought about that one in the 80s or 90s, Marvel would have owned the world), but if it gives Chuck a purpose other than being a punching bag, I'm all for it.
And no, I don't think Carey hates him (would be sort of strange to get this title if he did), but given how Chuck's been kicked around for the last few years, I was hoping that this would be a more... balanced book, in that regard.

While Scott has become "the" leader. Xavier still should be the philosopher to seek wisdom from, though. I hope the long term will only work to define that.

True, Chuck is better as a visionary than anything else. I'd have to say I'd want him working outside of the X-men, though. Make him a lobbyist for "non-human rights" or something like that.

Incidentally, you totally need to post more, man. :)


Well, I've gone up from one post to almost ten in just a couple of hours now... I think my lurking phase is over.

[Beast]

If this is supposed to be an honest look at Xavier, his good sides have to come into account at some point, don't they? Right now it's just "X-men: F**k Chuck!" and it's getting a little too one-sided.
Thankfully there are X-Men who see Xavier's point of view. And who still would support him.

Beast for instance was shown to be incredibly supportive of Xavier after Deadly Genesis.

Which considering Carey's retcon, is somewhat surprising. :wink:

[worstblogever]

Thankfully there are X-Men who see Xavier's point of view. And who still would support him.

Beast for instance was shown to be incredibly supportive of Xavier after Deadly Genesis.

Which considering Carey's retcon, is somewhat surprising. :wink:

Nightcrawler, being the other big Proffy-supporter.

[Omega Alpha]

Huh. When Jean did basically the same thing to Emma, both Frostie and Scottie were furious. Now they're both ok with doing stuff like it. Good to know.

Of course, coming from the woman who keeps losing students over and over and the guy who organized a death squad but threw out his mentor for being secretive... not much of a surprise, really.

When did these people forget to learn from theirs and others mistakes?

Don't be ridiculous; not only she wasn't acting in pure spite and looking for revenge like Jean, but Xavier could have stopped her if he really wanted. Xavier himself ended up recognizing the usefulness in the end.

That was part of Emma's point. She doesn't have the "right" to judge. Neither does Xavier. But sometimes, you can't "lift yourself by your own bootstraps" and it's easier for someone else to find the right "fulcrum".

Her own words. Anybody else could have done it, but really, Emma's the most "grey" character currently to do so brutally, and to effect. Exodus and Sinister, in previous issues, showed Charles his past, but they did so to try to subdue him to their own will. Emma never had the intention of forcing Charles to do anything but look at himself.

As (almost) always, WBE has the right answer.

[claimtosubclaim]

I imagine Chuck will try to make good on his offer to Rogue mentioned in this issue. And a stronger, better Rogue emerges after her "epic arc" and the book sets off on an entirely new direction possibly featuring Rogue, Karima, and Iceman (it'd be nice if one of the 05 decided to help out Xavier).

[TeamED209]

Was the all the wolverine stuff in this issue not from the days when wolverine turned all beastly and ran off i think somewhere after wolverine 100..?I seem to recall xavier needing wolverine for something and got the gang together to go look for him and doing some boarderline stuff along the way..can't for the life of me remember which book or the exact number but i think it was late nineties

[worstblogever]

Was the all the wolverine stuff in this issue not from the days when wolverine turned all beastly and ran off i think somewhere after wolverine 100..?I seem to recall xavier needing wolverine for something and got the gang together to go look for him and doing some boarderline stuff along the way..can't for the life of me remember which book or the exact number but i think it was late nineties

If it was just after Wolverine #100, Logan wouldn't have been drawn with a nose.

[timbox]

This was Carey's chance to show that Xavier was still a powerful force in the MU. A follow-up to the Xavier vs Exodus battle, with Xavier mentally kicking the crap out of Emma, would have shown that he still has the potential to matter.

Now I just think Xavier is being slowly bled out to be forgotten. Maybe he can go replace Sage and Psylocke in New Exiles when Carey is done with him.

Still a good read, although I would have appreciated a little more ice from Emma.

[TeamED209]

If it was just after Wolverine #100, Logan wouldn't have been drawn with a nose.

true...that was the only time i could remember that prof x went after logan and didn't do it too politely...

[LordAllMighty]

I thought the issue was ok, nothing great but interesting points all around.

Sadly, I'm tired of seeing so much of Emma. :frown:

I get it X-Writers; Emma is now the Queen of the X-Universe. You can stop trying to force her down my throat.

[ExodusCloak]

This was not just any type of beat down it was a lesson in life. Emma basically told Xavier to accept that he's used warped logic to justifiy certain acts and move on with life.

Loved the issue especially Emma being so open about her own flaws too.

[darknessatnoon]

It's very aggravating to say this, but I really loved the issue. Xavier's an arrogant prick. He needed someone to slap some sense into him and, really, of all his rivals, I can only see Shaw or Emma doing it. None of his students have the cred to do it, except perhaps Storm. Magneto is too played out, and Shaw hates his guts too much. In Morrison's New X-Men, Xavier told Jean that working with Emma was a "revelation" (which obviously pissed the jealous wench off), so obviously he considers Emma a peer who has something to offer. Sure, she was bitchy about it, but I think that's exactly what the doctor ordered.

[Richard Bastard]

true...that was the only time i could remember that prof x went after logan and didn't do it too politely...

the Wolverine scene doesn't click, I believe, because it hasn't happened in the books, officially yet... I'm sure that it's going to be the catalyst for the tie-in with the Wolverine: Origins book

[XSE Drake]

This issue was gorgeous, with great character beats and an emotional finale that really sneaks up on you. I am enjoying this book about five times more than I thought I would. I love Carey's work, but thought this book would be a bit too heady for me. I have enjoyed it immensely.

I do however hope that the Xavier-centric focus of the book will soon segue back into something a bit more... teamy. I think this concept has limited shelf-life, and it seems to be approaching its organic conclusion. Hopefully one or two more arcs, then something new.

I really want me some Carey-style Sam and Bobby Goodness. :-)

[Rivka]

Thankfully there are X-Men who see Xavier's point of view. And who still would support him.

Beast for instance was shown to be incredibly supportive of Xavier after Deadly Genesis.

Which considering Carey's retcon, is somewhat surprising. :wink:

I'm so totally hoping that Xavier's point of view, that is, his philosophy, will be supported by other X-people. Because I'm very annoyed by the "kill first, ask questions later," and "torture is good" policy of Summers and Frost. Xavier's original philosophy is the heart of the X-Universe, and a lesson to us all, and at no time has it been needed more than it is now.

Anyway, Beast, I haven't read the book yet, but here I am reading SPOILERS because I have no self-discipline. But can you, or someone, explain something to me?

I thought Xavier was supposed to be reclaiming his memories from the minds of others? How is it that the White Queen was able to access his memories in his own mind? Have we moved from his brain being wiped clean like a slate, to, his memories are hidden and repressed?

And how is it logical that White Queen was able to "sneak up" on Xavier in his mind? No one can do that. Is it possible that Xavier pretty much let her do what she was doing, because he knew what she wanted to accomplish, and he let it happen, for the good of all?

I am sort of dreading reading this issue, now. I've been a huge Mike Carey fan.

[ExodusCloak]

And how is it logical that White Queen was able to "sneak up" on Xavier in his mind? No one can do that. Is it possible that Xavier pretty much let her do what she was doing, because he knew what she wanted to accomplish, and he let it happen, for the good of all?

I am sort of dreading reading this issue, now. I've been a huge Mike Carey fan.

http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenlegacy216001pl8.jpg

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Liked the art. Dialogue was great. Good stuff.

Dropping the book, though, since I just haven't had mucho fun reading any of the, say, past... 9 issues?

Oh well, there's still SI:X.

[maigen]

I got this issue last night.

I liked it well enough.

Makes me so impatient for Rogue's arc.

Maybe Rogue and Xavier will start another Australian team. That would be sweet.

It would also be sweet if she told him to screw off and went back to Mystique. At this point I'll be satisfied just to see her on panel.

[lockerogue]

I'm so totally hoping that Xavier's point of view, that is, his philosophy, will be supported by other X-people. Because I'm very annoyed by the "kill first, ask questions later," and "torture is good" policy of Summers and Frost. Xavier's original philosophy is the heart of the X-Universe, and a lesson to us all, and at no time has it been needed more than it is now.

Anyway, Beast, I haven't read the book yet, but here I am reading SPOILERS because I have no self-discipline. But can you, or someone, explain something to me?

I thought Xavier was supposed to be reclaiming his memories from the minds of others? How is it that the White Queen was able to access his memories in his own mind? Have we moved from his brain being wiped clean like a slate, to, his memories are hidden and repressed?

And how is it logical that White Queen was able to "sneak up" on Xavier in his mind? No one can do that. Is it possible that Xavier pretty much let her do what she was doing, because he knew what she wanted to accomplish, and he let it happen, for the good of all?

I am sort of dreading reading this issue, now. I've been a huge Mike Carey fan.

I believe Emma said that she had to work carefully as one little slip up would have caused Xavier to sense her and shut her out his mind. Which is actually quite plausible.

[ExodusCloak]

I believe Emma said that she had to work carefully as one little slip up would have caused Xavier to sense her and shut her out his mind.

Which page was this?

[Roo]

while this isn't exactly what i want to be reading in a core x-title, i'm really enjoying Legacy, far more than I expected to!

my thinking on emma is that while she is equally guilty of forcing her will on others and having no scruples in using her powers, she has never shied away from that fact and pretended she hasn't - xavier has and that's why emma can get away with it

i'm glad the way it worked out... i love emma and didn't want her to get an absolute psychic schooling by charles, but at the same time, i wouldn't want her to be giving charles a schooling either

[maigen]

Maybe telepathic powers work like other parts of the male anatomy.

As you get older they get less umm...effective.

Maybe that's how she got in there. Charles needs some mental viagra.

[Beast]

Maybe telepathic powers work like other parts of the male anatomy.

As you get older they get less umm...effective.

Maybe that's how she got in there. Charles needs some mental viagra.
That's what he got from the M'Kraan Crystal.

[maigen]

That's what he got from the M'Kraan Crystal.

What? He's hooking up with some girl named Crystal?

Silly man.

[DeniseXfrost]

Which page was this?
The first page. She said he would catch her like a virus, I think.

[ExodusCloak]

The first page. She said he would catch her like a virus, I think.

I knew that, was just looking for the elaborate extrapolation.

[MartinRedmond]

This would be better if Xavier had actually ever done anything wrong.:rolleyes:

[darknessatnoon]

This would be better if Xavier had actually ever done anything wrong.:rolleyes:

He killed his sister, exploited Sage during her teen years, used children for his private army, enslaved Danger, mind-raped Cyclops, etc... . All Emma ever did was lock a bondage queen up in a cage and kill a horse once. Oh, wait, Emma also killed her sister. They're even on that front.

[maigen]

This book was nothing more than an anti-abortion platform.

[darknessatnoon]

This book was nothing more than an anti-abortion platform.

Good point. Add it to the archive with Look Whose Talking and Look Whose Talking II. Propaganda, all of it.

[Shaid O Gray]

Great issue. Great art and great writing. No other writer has the characterization down like Mike right now. Frankly I don't know how anyone could see this issue result in hating either Scott, Emma or Charles. Unless they already did of course. Which I think is pretty much the case with a lot of people.

All three characters have and are doing real ugly things, and always for the same reason: they think it's the right thing to do. They think it's necessary.

-Scott and Emma were doing this to Charles to make sure there was no Sinister left in there. That was a real concern. You can't even remotely chance someone like Sinister still working around in someone as powerful as Charles.

-Charles said what he did to Rogue to force her into a new life. A better life in which she redeemed herself. And that's exactly what happened. Was it cruel? Was he lying? Yes. Would not doing so have resulted in her running back to Mystique ad her crazy terrorist-plot filled life? Yes.
(And how was that nothing 'new'? We never knew about this, and it sheds a whole different light on the story UXM #171)

-Sott might've never recovered if Charles hadn't removed those memories, and the X-Men team on Krakoa would certainly have died. So NOT doing what Charles did would have been 'wrong' too.

That's the whole point Carey is making: right and wrong are subjective and relative, especially in complex situations. They just do what they feel is the best thing, regardless of the horrible actions they have to take. And sometimes, later, they doubt what they did, but everyone can still only do what they've always done: look at the facts they have, they best conclusions they can draw from that, and make a decison they feel is best.

So none of this is about Emma being 'bitchy' or 'petty', or Charles being a 'jerk' or Scott being a 'hypocrite'. This is about all of them believing they're right, and all of them being capable of great ruthlessness when they deem it necessary, but sometimes disagreeing on each other's ruthless actions.

[maigen]

Good point. Add it to the archive with Look Whose Talking and Look Whose Talking II. Propaganda, all of it.

I hope Target doesn't sell those.

I would be heart broken.

[Rivka]

Great issue. Great art and great writing. No other writer has the characterization down like Mike right now. Frankly I don't know how anyone could see this issue result in hating either Scott, Emma or Charles. Unless they already did of course. Which I think is pretty much the case with a lot of people.

All three characters have and are doing real ugly things, and always for the same reason: they think it's the right thing to do. They think it's necessary.

-Scott and Emma were doing this to Charles to make sure there was no Sinister left in there. That was a real concern. You can't even remotely chance someone like Sinister still working around in someone as powerful as Charles.

-Charles said what he did to Rogue to force her into a new life. A better life in which she redeemed herself. And that's exactly what happened. Was it cruel? Was he lying? Yes. Would not doing so have resulted in her running back to Mystique ad her crazy terrorist-plot filled life? Yes.
(And how was that nothing 'new'? We never knew about this, and it sheds a whole different light on the story UXM #171)

-Sott might've never recovered if Charles hadn't removed those memories, and the X-Men team on Krakoa would certainly have died. So NOT doing what Charles did would have been 'wrong' too.

That's the whole point Carey is making: right and wrong are subjective and relative, especially in complex situations. They just do what they feel is the best thing, regardless of the horrible actions they have to take. And sometimes, later, they doubt what they did, but everyone can still only do what they've always done: look at the facts they have, they best conclusions they can draw from that, and make a decison they feel is best.

So none of this is about Emma being 'bitchy' or 'petty', or Charles being a 'jerk' or Scott being a 'hypocrite'. This is about all of them believing they're right, and all of them being capable of great ruthlessness when they deem it necessary, but sometimes disagreeing on each other's ruthless actions.

Nice summary. I think your analysis may be better than the book, but I'll have to see.

I still don't understand how Charles has memories remaining in his own brain. I thought Exodus wiped his mind clean. Removed all memories. And the point of Legacy was Charles had to find his memories, his "self" through the minds of others. So how does the White Queen find memories hidden in Charles' mind? This isn't about repression, I thought, but about recovery.

[ExodusCloak]

Nice summary. I think your analysis may be better than the book, but I'll have to see.

I still don't understand how Charles has memories remaining in his own brain. I thought Exodus wiped his mind clean. Removed all memories. And the point of Legacy was Charles had to find his memories, his "self" through the minds of others. So how does the White Queen find memories hidden in Charles' mind? This isn't about repression, I thought, but about recovery.

Exodus wiped it clean and tried to force them back in Xavier's head but Xavier was resisting the procedure so some of his memories were lost some could have very well fragmented. Also Xavier could have very well subconciously repressed some of the juicier memories. Denial perhaps.

[Rivka]

Exodus wiped it clean and tried to force them back in Xavier's head but Xavier was resisting the procedure so some of his memories were lost some could have very well fragmented. Also Xavier could have very well subconciously repressed some of the juicier memories. Denial perhaps.

Okay, that works.

I think you deserve a no-prize though. :smile:

Thanks!

[Shaid O Gray]

Nice summary. I think your analysis may be better than the book, but I'll have to see.

Might be an 'eye-of-the-beholder-thing' but I really think those are the points right now, not just of Carey but of the X-books overall. It's not about who's the bad guy, it about different points of view. I have to give Marvel props for really managing to put moral ambivalence into the stories. Civil War itself was a good example, since all involved truly, passionately, believed they were right. Same for the old X-Men/Alpha Flight story about Loki's Magic Fountain thingy.

It's clear that different readers follow suit, agreeing with different characters.

Exodus wiped it clean and tried to force them back in Xavier's head but Xavier was resisting the procedure so some of his memories were lost some could have very well fragmented. Also Xavier could have very well subconciously repressed some of the juicier memories. Denial perhaps.

Okay, that works.

I think you deserve a no-prize though.

Thanks!

Exodus Cloak is right. Not sure about the No prize though, that was well established in the writing. I also assume at least some memories must have gotten lost in the initial impact of the bullet. And apparently, some memories are still around, just fragmented. I think I agree with ExodusCloak that maybe some of those less nice ones (Like with Rogue) are those he subconsciously doesn't really want to put back together again.

Should be interesting when Rogue is back in the book though. Charles: "Uhm sorry about that, Rogue. Didn't actually really have a cure....ahem.....stuff turned out well though, didn't it??"

She might punch him. :biggrin:

[Hi-Fi]

Should be interesting when Rogue is back in the book though. Charles: "Uhm sorry about that, Rogue. Didn't actually really have a cure....ahem.....stuff turned out well though, didn't it??"

She might punch him. :biggrin:
I don't care who she punches, but she needs to punch someone!

[eurazn]

Should be interesting when Rogue is back in the book though. Charles: "Uhm sorry about that, Rogue. Didn't actually really have a cure....ahem.....stuff turned out well though, didn't it??"

She might punch him. :biggrin:

I don't care who she punches, but she needs to punch someone!

She'll have to get in line ...

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/wairata/slap.jpg

[Rivka]

Exodus Cloak is right. Not sure about the No prize though, that was well established in the writing. I also assume at least some memories must have gotten lost in the initial impact of the bullet. And apparently, some memories are still around, just fragmented. I think I agree with ExodusCloak that maybe some of those less nice ones (Like with Rogue) are those he subconsciously doesn't really want to put back together again.

I'll have to go back and reread the issues from LEGACY #208 on. I haven't gotten my comics this week, yet. But I don't recall any explanation except that Xavier needed to retrieve his memories from outside himself. If you have issue numbers, could you give me a lead? I must have missed where the nature of his mental state was further described. (And no, I'm not being snide -- I really missed something here, it seems.)

But you-all do deserve the no-prize, because now we're seeing memories in fragments residing his his mind, and I think you're right, memories Xavier doesn't want to deal with. This has precedent, as we saw in the prelude to Onslaught books. I loved the way Kubert depicted Xavier's repressed memories like little suitcases that he had locked away and he didn't want to open up.

[mikeb]

All three characters have and are doing real ugly things, and always for the same reason: they think it's the right thing to do. They think it's necessary.

.

-Charles said what he did to Rogue to force her into a new life. A better life in which she redeemed herself. And that's exactly what happened. Was it cruel? Was he lying? Yes. Would not doing so have resulted in her running back to Mystique ad her crazy terrorist-plot filled life? Yes.
(And how was that nothing 'new'? We never knew about this, and it sheds a whole different light on the story UXM #171)
But this has a very,very very ugly downside. :evilangry: I refer to what Xavier said to Rogue: "In time, you might be worthy of that salvation.In time, I might be prepared to offer it. To help you control your power. That time is far away. You must prove yourself, Rogue. I offer no free pardons, and no free gifts." I feel this is an ugly downside for several reasons:

1. It creates a very powerful state of emotional/psychological dependency of Rogue on Xavier because he implies he has the key to her controlling her power.

2. Because Xavier implies that she must prove herself before he helps her to control her power, and there has been absolutely no progress on her part after all these years she must be at her wits end about what more she has to do to "earn" Xavier's help with her control problem's. After years of loyalty and tremendous amount suffering and misery in that service to the point of death and/or the destruction of mental facilities what more must I do to "earn" help? This must have a tremendous effect on Rogue's self esteem.

3. To insulate himself, Xavier must make Rogue "a prisoner of his lie" for the simple reason if the truth came out, no one ever trust him again. Who would trust or turn to Xavier if it was revealed that he was as much a manipulator as Mystique or Magneto?

Just some thoughts...:biggrin:

[Slung]

Now Jean needs to come back and rake Emma over the coals again like in New X-Men.

Cause even though Emma makes a few refrences to her past, she's a hell of a lot dirtier than Chuck.
Yep. A HELL of a lot dirtier.
Huh. When Jean did basically the same thing to Emma, both Frostie and Scottie were furious. Now they're both ok with doing stuff like it. Good to know.

Of course, coming from the woman who keeps losing students over and over and the guy who organized a death squad but threw out his mentor for being secretive... not much of a surprise, really.

When did these people forget to learn from theirs and others mistakes?

Emma gets a free pass because...I don't know...just because.

Indeed. Scott and Emma are the most hypocritical X-Men alive.

Haven't you been reading the X-Men for the past three years, obviously Xavier is the only hypocrite.


Don't be ridiculous; not only she wasn't acting in pure spite and looking for revenge like Jean, but Xavier could have stopped her if he really wanted. Xavier himself ended up recognizing the usefulness in the end.

Jean was helping Emma burn through her own lies and without Jean's help, Emma would never have found herself. And, while Cyclops was concerned about Sinister, Emma was concerned about showboating and hurting Xavier. So, whatever.

while this isn't exactly what i want to be reading in a core x-title, i'm really enjoying Legacy, far more than I expected to!

my thinking on emma is that while she is equally guilty of forcing her will on others and having no scruples in using her powers, she has never shied away from that fact and pretended she hasn't - xavier has and that's why emma can get away with it

i'm glad the way it worked out... i love emma and didn't want her to get an absolute psychic schooling by charles, but at the same time, i wouldn't want her to be giving charles a schooling either

Emma used to pretend to be this nice school teacher who secretly exploited teenagers with sex, violence and manipulations (and the death of favorite pets). Not exactly a woman who is honestly portraying herself.
He killed his sister, exploited Sage during her teen years, used children for his private army, enslaved Danger, mind-raped Cyclops, etc... . All Emma ever did was lock a bondage queen up in a cage and kill a horse once. Oh, wait, Emma also killed her sister. They're even on that front.
You forgot attempting to murder Storm, having Shaw rape Storm's body, kidnapping children to torture and manipulate them into being killers, mind-raping Cyclops, murdering a police officer (while being a "good guy") etc.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Double post.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Haven't you been reading the X-Men for the past three years, obviously Xavier is the only hypocrite.

AXM #1. Look at it any you want, but Cyke did say out loud to other people he was being an hypocrit over something.

Not something I recall many x-characters doing in the past few... well, EVER.

I'd bring up X-Force #1, but I don't recall Cyke saying the h-word.

Zing. :biggrin:


Originally Posted by Shaid O Gray
Should be interesting when Rogue is back in the book though. Charles: "Uhm sorry about that, Rogue. Didn't actually really have a cure....ahem.....stuff turned out well though, didn't it??"

She might punch him.

Nah. Refer to the Muir Island botched matricide debacle

[Shaid O Gray]

I don't care who she punches, but she needs to punch someone!

I know! I can't even remember the last time she properly punched somebody! Jean-Paul I suppose, but that was not the kinda punch I'm talking about here... I'm talking launching somebody through a wall. I'd love to see her punch somebody through a wall again.

She'll have to get in line ...

True, hehe. But I'm not talking about a bitch slap either. (Although as bitch slaps go, that was a fierce one from the looks of it) I'm talking a PUNCH!

I'll have to go back and reread the issues from LEGACY #208 on. I haven't gotten my comics this week, yet. But I don't recall any explanation except that Xavier needed to retrieve his memories from outside himself. If you have issue numbers, could you give me a lead? I must have missed where the nature of his mental state was further described. (And no, I'm not being snide -- I really missed something here, it seems.)

In X-Men Legacy #208, Exodus says: "I took his memories from him for safe-keeping because his damaged brain couldn't contain them. Now, he won't accept them back. His mind is inert. Beyond a few random memory traces, there's no brain activity at all."

Then he decides the solution is finding the right stimulus, so he brought in Magneto, which indeed worked as they hoped. So he has most of it back, but it's a mess. Missing stuff, half missing stuff. Things he remembers but has no emotional connection to, and apparently fragmented things that can still be put together. Like worstblogever said: cheese!

But this has a very,very very ugly downside. I refer to what Xavier said to Rogue: "In time, you might be worthy of that salvation.In time, I might be prepared to offer it. To help you control your power. That time is far away. You must prove yourself, Rogue. I offer no free pardons, and no free gifts." I feel this is an ugly downside for several reasons:

1. It creates a very powerful state of emotional/psychological dependency of Rogue on Xavier because he implies he has the key to her controlling her power.

True, but probably only in the beginning, since it became clear he had no cure not too much later.

2. Because Xavier implies that she must prove herself before he helps her to control her power, and there has been absolutely no progress on her part after all these years she must be at her wits end about what more she has to do to "earn" Xavier's help with her control problem's. After years of loyalty and tremendous amount suffering and misery in that service to the point of death and/or the destruction of mental facilities what more must I do to "earn" help? This must have a tremendous effect on Rogue's self esteem.

That one I'm not so sure about since it would only be true if Rogue had been an X-Man all these years JUST to get her 'reward' of a cure. And that's clearly not the case. She took to being an X-Man and after some doubts early on, became a true believer. And she stayed an X-Man loong after Xavier was out of the picture (when he was dying and taken into space by the Starjammers. He was gone for a good long while after that)

Also, I remember from that 'Magneto-War' one-shot, that Rogue, (in an exchage with Xavier in her dream), says that nothing they've ever tried to cure her power-problem ever worked. So Xavier had obviously tried many things at that point (" everything from telepathic therapy to bio-scans") Which means two things:
1- Her 'worthiness' had clearly been confirmed by then.
2- She KNEW by then he couldn't really help her and still fully believed in the X-Men and their cause.

3. To insulate himself, Xavier must make Rogue "a prisoner of his lie" for the simple reason if the truth came out, no one ever trust him again. Who would trust or turn to Xavier if it was revealed that he was as much a manipulator as Mystique or Magneto?

Just some thoughts...

Yeah, interesting stuff. The main question with that is whether or not it will still come as a surprise to Rogue that he had no clue how to help her when he gave her that spiel about 'worthiness'. That he knew he had no cure. Given what I quoted above, it's possible she'd figured it out since then.

[pariah-1972]

Oh god jesus christ f*cking a !

I hated this issue (different from being bad i guess) Charlies is an ass, Emma is a bigger ass, Scott is a wimp.

Going thru pointless continuity/backstory for no apparent reason than to show that Charles isn't as perfect as he used to think he is that or he's the second biggest douche bag next to Emma and Scott .:mad:

I also don't like him retconning the way Xavier tried to help Rogue cause that makes him seem like a jerk even tho he was being a jerk for somewhat selfless reasons.


I was really getting tired of the continuity rehashes last time but the artwork was so lovely i ignored it.

This artwork while probably not bad technically was nowhere near as good as the last guy i mean Emma looked like a botoxed tranny most of the time .

The only thing i liked was the neat way Emma turned him into a bunch of pictures and flipped thru him.
Lets be honest here - Emma has no reason on gods green earth to judge anyone ! she is a manipulator and murderess of the highest order and would have never been accepted into the x-men if Scott didn't have a hard on for her.

I was desperately hoping there was a point to this issue besides rehashing continuity but i've read it twice and there doesn't seem to be one - tho maybe i'm missing something?

If the whole point was "Xavier is a jerk " then why did Scott seem to forgive him at the end?
Which really did not make sense if he is still holding a gruge against Xavier then why shake his hand unless he has forgiven him?

And why did he forgive him for? because he let Emma mentally rape him for an hour? wow thanks for the memories Scott !


Emma says she was only doing it to make sure there was no trace of Sinister in his head but she didn't seem to concerned with that she was more interested in trying to torture him especially since at the end she did not say " ok Charles you are all clear inside"

I also don't believe Emma could mentally pwn Xavier no matter how hard she tried, but Xavier has always tried to be a pacifist so i don't think he was interested in fighting her if he didn't have too especially since that would upset Scott i'm sure.


All this does is reinforce my hatred of Scott and Emma and make me feel sorry for Xavier since i believe he tries to do the right thing but sometimes fails cause after all he is only human.

Was that the point of this issue to make me feel sorry for Xavier? cause i already did.


Sorry for the rant but i had to get my feelings out.

[nikbackm]

Great issue, it definitely fulfilled my expectations.

I don't really get the outrage some posters have over Emma judging Xavier supposedly without having any right to do so. As far as I am concerned no judgment was passed at any point.

The whole point of re-examining some of his worst moments was as I understood it to see how he reacted to it and this way determine if he was still influenced by Sinister. And in the process also help him see he is also just a faulty human being like Emma herself and everyone else.

Xavier reacted quite well to Emma's way of teaching I thought. Perhaps her best student to date? :tongue:

[Saturius]

. Perhaps her best student to date? :tongue:

Uh oh. That means Xavier's gonna be worm food soon. :biggrin:

[frog]

Great issue, it definitely fulfilled my expectations.

I don't really get the outrage some posters have over Emma judging Xavier supposedly without having any right to do so. As far as I am concerned no judgment was passed at any point.

The whole point of re-examining some of his worst moments was as I understood it to see how he reacted to it and this way determine if he was still influenced by Sinister. And in the process also help him see he is also just a faulty human being like Emma herself and everyone else.

Xavier reacted quite well to Emma's way of teaching I thought. Perhaps her best student to date? :tongue:

Well, Emma did tell Xavier she'd love to take him apart for what he did to Cyclops. That implies judgement, and unfavorable at that, on his actions. But she'd certainly have to give herself 40 lashes as well for her own manipulation of her students.

[nikbackm]

Well, Emma did tell Xavier she'd love to take him apart for what he did to Cyclops. That implies judgement, and unfavorable at that, on his actions. But she'd certainly have to give herself 40 lashes as well for her own manipulation of her students.

I think that was a separate issue. Emma takes it personally when someone (else) is messing with Cyclops' mind. She was speaking as Emma the woman as opposed to Emma the teacher there if that makes sense. But take note that she did not actually do anything to get back for it.

Edit: As for her own students. She seemed to be beat herself up pretty hard for that after she woke up from her Sentinel-induced coma. That was the cause of her reformation after all.

[ExodusCloak]

Well, Emma did tell Xavier she'd love to take him apart for what he did to Cyclops. That implies judgement, and unfavorable at that, on his actions. But she'd certainly have to give herself 40 lashes as well for her own manipulation of her students.

I thought she was always pretty up front with her Hellions eg. They knew exactly what their headmistress was involved in and what their jobs will involve barring Firestar and Catseye who was possibly smarter then Kitty Pryde but didn't have any real life experience.

[frog]

I thought she was always pretty up front with her Hellions eg. They knew exactly what their headmistress was involved in and what their jobs will involve barring Firestar and Catseye who was possibly smarter then Kitty Pryde but didn't have any real life experience.

Perhaps, but that's small consolation to those two!

[samhalliwell]

Perhaps, but that's small consolation to those two!

Seriously. I don't know how Firestar would ever think about even believing in Emma's so-called reforming, taking into account the pony incident alone.

[Pro]

The hand shake sealed the deal. I loathe that petty whiney hypocritical botox-fetishist poser pretending to be Cyclops and his treacherous murderous manipulative cold hearted cow of a girlfriend.

I hope the dreaming celestial topples over and crushes the life out of them.

[pariah-1972]

Wow i guess i'm not the only one who was peeved off at this issue.

I was expecting someone to flame me telling me how i didn't get it.

[pariah-1972]

Also i think this issue would have been better if Xavier had fought back a little so it didn't seem so much like Emma was bullying him while Cyclops was standing there.

[samhalliwell]

Also i think this issue would have been better if Xavier had fought back a little so it didn't seem so much like Emma was bullying him while Cyclops was standing there.

But the point was that Charles needed to see/hear what Emma was trying to point out. The fact that it might have been a bit awkward and hypocritical coming from Emma is just another subject entirely.

[frog]

Also i think this issue would have been better if Xavier had fought back a little so it didn't seem so much like Emma was bullying him while Cyclops was standing there.

Xavier didn't really want to fight back. I believe some part of him knew he needed the truth and he wasn't going to fight his former team like he fought Exodus and Sinister.

[pariah-1972]

That doesn't mean he couldnt have resisted some in the beginning.

[justinkos91]

After reading this issue, my respect for Emma has come back. Uncanny kinda ruined her for me, with the off the wall sex and looking like a porn-star and just being over-perky, but after reading this and giving Charles a taste of his own medicine, i admire that :smile: I like that she has morals, and that there's more behind that diamond figure than just another pretty face. Plus she's wearing her astonishing costume :biggrin: better than her new one...

[maigen]

After reading this issue, my respect for Emma has come back. Uncanny kinda ruined her for me, with the off the wall sex and looking like a porn-star and just being over-perky, but after reading this and giving Charles a taste of his own medicine, i admire that :smile: I like that she has morals, and that there's more behind that diamond figure than just another pretty face. Plus she's wearing her astonishing costume :biggrin: better than her new one...

That is why this is the Thinking Woman's X-book.

There will be no sarcastic remarks to that. None.

[eurazn]

That is why this is the Thinking Woman's X-book.

There will be no sarcastic remarks to that. None.

I love a "Thinking Woman" in a bustier and F-Me boots.

heh, sorry, Maigen, I couldn't resist ...

[Agent_Torpor]

After reading this issue, my respect for Emma has come back. Uncanny kinda ruined her for me, with the off the wall sex and looking like a porn-star and just being over-perky, but after reading this and giving Charles a taste of his own medicine, i admire that :smile: I like that she has morals, and that there's more behind that diamond figure than just another pretty face. Plus she's wearing her astonishing costume :biggrin: better than her new one...

Actually, it's NOT her Astonishing costume, she's missing her platforms. I've got Cassaday's Emma cover for AXM right here next to my desk, taped up on the wall.

Briones drew her with some flat feet, makes it look like she's got on some footy pajamas there.

My lone quibble with the issue. Emma should never, ever, ever be drawn heel-less. Ever.

[maigen]

I love a "Thinking Woman" in a bustier and F-Me boots.

heh, sorry, Maigen, I couldn't resist ...

You did not follow the rules.

You have been warned.

[Pro]

What i would have liked seeing is Charles phishing out Scott's little secret, finding out Emma doesn't know and blow the whole thing wide open.
Scott blames Charles, well screw Scott. It's not like he never made any errors in judgement. Thankless orphan owes his life, his upbringing, his training and probably everything he owed before he shacked up with Emma to the guy and instead of showing an inkling of understanding for the man's position he pisses on his mentor's teachings behind his back and has the audacity to shake his hand when being told he is a great heir to Charles' dream.

And don't get me even started on Emma, who has tried to kill the x-men on more than one occassion, captured and tortured them more than once and was ultimately responsible for sending Jean Grey (remember her Scott?) to the dark side by giving Mastermind the means to mentally feck her up and thus ultimately responsible for nearly Earth (not to mention billions of lifes).

How those two can even remotely be considered heirs to Charles' vision is beyond me.

Sorry but blergh.

It would have been great if Charles turned the table after Emma showed his past and blasted the two with every dumbfucking mistake they themselves made through the years. Slap Emma around a bit with her manipulations of Firestar, the pony kill, the manipulation of Jean Grey, the greedy money grabbing attitude she displayed for most of her life, the attitude she fostered among her students, her constant failure to keep her students save.
Scott's X-Force, his failure as a father, his lack in judgement when it comes to women, his constant dependancy on others whether Charles, Emma, Jean or any others, his selfdoubt which nearly spiraled into a catatonic state, his lies and manipulations, his failure to keep his students safe, his lack of trust in people who actually deserve it.

If Scott and Emma are so insistent on showing Charles how human he is, I would have loved seeing Charles turning the tables and doing the same for Scott and Emma.

[pariah-1972]

What i would have liked seeing is Charles phishing out Scott's little secret, finding out Emma doesn't know and blow the whole thing wide open.
Scott blames Charles, well screw Scott. It's not like he never made any errors in judgement. Thankless orphan owes his life, his upbringing, his training and probably everything he owed before he shacked up with Emma to the guy and instead of showing an inkling of understanding for the man's position he pisses on his mentor's teachings behind his back and has the audacity to shake his hand when being told he is a great heir to Charles' dream.

And don't get me even started on Emma, who has tried to kill the x-men on more than one occassion, captured and tortured them more than once and was ultimately responsible for sending Jean Grey (remember her Scott?) to the dark side by giving Mastermind the means to mentally feck her up and thus ultimately responsible for nearly Earth (not to mention billions of lifes).

How those two can even remotely be considered heirs to Charles' vision is beyond me.

Sorry but blergh.

It would have been great if Charles turned the table after Emma showed his past and blasted the two with every dumbfucking mistake they themselves made through the years. Slap Emma around a bit with her manipulations of Firestar, the pony kill, the manipulation of Jean Grey, the greedy money grabbing attitude she displayed for most of her life, the attitude she fostered among her students, her constant failure to keep her students save.
Scott's X-Force, his failure as a father, his lack in judgement when it comes to women, his constant dependancy on others whether Charles, Emma, Jean or any others, his selfdoubt which nearly spiraled into a catatonic state, his lies and manipulations, his failure to keep his students safe, his lack of trust in people who actually deserve it.

If Scott and Emma are so insistent on showing Charles how human he is, I would have loved seeing Charles turning the tables and doing the same for Scott and Emma.I love you --- will you marry me?
:redface:

[eurazn]

What i would have liked seeing is Charles phishing out Scott's little secret, finding out Emma doesn't know and blow the whole thing wide open.
Scott blames Charles, well screw Scott. It's not like he never made any errors in judgement. Thankless orphan owes his life, his upbringing, his training and probably everything he owed before he shacked up with Emma to the guy and instead of showing an inkling of understanding for the man's position he pisses on his mentor's teachings behind his back and has the audacity to shake his hand when being told he is a great heir to Charles' dream.

And don't get me even started on Emma, who has tried to kill the x-men on more than one occassion, captured and tortured them more than once and was ultimately responsible for sending Jean Grey (remember her Scott?) to the dark side by giving Mastermind the means to mentally feck her up and thus ultimately responsible for nearly Earth (not to mention billions of lifes).

How those two can even remotely be considered heirs to Charles' vision is beyond me.

Sorry but blergh.

It would have been great if Charles turned the table after Emma showed his past and blasted the two with every dumbfucking mistake they themselves made through the years. Slap Emma around a bit with her manipulations of Firestar, the pony kill, the manipulation of Jean Grey, the greedy money grabbing attitude she displayed for most of her life, the attitude she fostered among her students, her constant failure to keep her students save.
Scott's X-Force, his failure as a father, his lack in judgement when it comes to women, his constant dependancy on others whether Charles, Emma, Jean or any others, his selfdoubt which nearly spiraled into a catatonic state, his lies and manipulations, his failure to keep his students safe, his lack of trust in people who actually deserve it.

If Scott and Emma are so insistent on showing Charles how human he is, I would have loved seeing Charles turning the tables and doing the same for Scott and Emma.

Wow. Well said!

It's been a long time since I've been to church, but I recall reading something along the lines of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Cyclops and Emma (while she does make me chuckle sometimes) should take note ...

[maigen]

Wow. Well said!

It's been a long time since I've been to church, but I recall reading something along the lines of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Cyclops and Emma (while she does make me chuckle sometimes) should take note ...

They weren't throwing stones.

Just watching a movie. There's nothing bad in that.

[eurazn]

They weren't throwing stones.

Just watching a movie. There's nothing bad in that.

Apparently it's a 3D interactive movie?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/wairata/slap.jpg

I guess I could substitute "stones" for "open palm slaps" instead?

[Agent_Torpor]

Apparently it's a 3D interactive movie?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/wairata/slap.jpg

I guess I could substitute "stones" for "open palm slaps" instead?

Pathos isn't flicked on or off like a light switch or your love bean, Emma.

Only Empress Lilandra is allowed to smack on Chuck like that.

[Shaid O Gray]

They weren't throwing stones.

Just watching a movie. There's nothing bad in that.

Yeah, i didn't see any 'judging'. It was more 'checking' by means of a lot of confrontational stuff. Hell Emma was actually telling him to get over feeling so arrogant, because youth is always arrogant and their crimes were only greater because their reach was greater. That's not judging, that's actually saying 'Get over it!'.

Funny though, if you add up all the hating and screeching in this thread, then we should apparently hate this issue because Emma is a evil, because Charles is a jerk and because Scott is a simpering hypocrite. Everyone has different hatin'-reasons. Which kind of proves my earlier point, that this is all just about different points of view.

Really, all I see is that these are fully realized characters with strenghts, flaws and varying opinions. That's just called good writing. If you can only see them as Emma='Evile Cackling Villainness', Charles='Noble Mentor Dude' and Scott='Goody-BoyScout Leader', then no, maybe this book, or Marvel's current 'grey area'-ambivalent approach isn't for you.

I'm sure there are plenty of other comics where the White Hats and Black Hats are clearly defined. (Ya know, with moustache-twirling and stuff) Maybe those would be more to some people's tastes....:biggrin:

[eurazn]

Really, all I see is that these are fully realized characters with strenghts, flaws and varying opinions. That's just called good writing. If you can only see them as Emma='Evile Cackling Villainness', Charles='Noble Mentor Dude' and Scott='Goody-BoyScout Leader', then no, maybe this book, or Marvel's current 'grey area'-ambivalent approach isn't for you.

I might agree with you had the three characters shown strengths, flaws and varying opinions. Had Professor X gotten in a word edgewise, even if just a MINOR retort, at least the exchange would have felt more genuine. If anything, this issue was very NON-gray.

Maybe it's time I read the issue again, maybe there's a perspective I'm missing.

[ExodusCloak]

Does anyone think that Emma found the location of the mind gem as well as the other infinity gems while knocking a few things around Charles's head?

She's also had a rummage through the Sentry's head...I wonder if what Bendis intends to do with this?

[frog]

Does anyone think that Emma found the location of the mind gem as well as the other infinity gems while knocking a few things around Charles's head?

She's also had a rummage through the Sentry's head...I wonder if what Bendis intends to do with this?

Now there's an uncomfortable thought considering the Illuminaughty promo!

[Pro]

Really, all I see is that these are fully realized characters with strenghts, flaws and varying opinions. That's just called good writing. If you can only see them as Emma='Evile Cackling Villainness', Charles='Noble Mentor Dude' and Scott='Goody-BoyScout Leader', then no, maybe this book, or Marvel's current 'grey area'-ambivalent approach isn't for you.

I don't think Charles turning the tables on Emma and Scott would necesarilly paint him as the Noble Mentor dude nor Scott as a goodey-boyscout if it revealed X-Force nor Emma as the evil cackling villainess if she felt betrayed by Scott's secret.
it would sure have been preferable to see more of a three-way conflict rather than Charles being put through therapy by Emma of all people. It could have been a bit more vicious really if the point was to reveal the humanity behind the three. Instead we get Emma lecturing Charles on morals.

I also think they missed an opportunity to show why charles is called the world's greatest telepath, Certainly given how many tricks we see Emma do lately. I expected more from this conflict I guess.

[pariah-1972]

I don't think Charles turning the tables on Emma and Scott would necesarilly paint him as the Noble Mentor dude nor Scott as a goodey-boyscout if it revealed X-Force nor Emma as the evil cackling villainess if she felt betrayed by Scott's secret.
it would sure have been preferable to see more of a three-way conflict rather than Charles being put through therapy by Emma of all people. It could have been a bit more vicious really if the point was to reveal the humanity behind the three. Instead we get Emma lecturing Charles on morals.

I also think they missed an opportunity to show why charles is called the world's greatest telepath, Certainly given how many tricks we see Emma do lately. I expected more from this conflict I guess.Yeah tis what i've been saying the conflict was very one sided, there was no balance it would have been nice if Charles had said or done something to make him seem less pathetic and thus making us feel sorry for him .


I also don't believe for a second about that Rogue retcon Emma implanted that in his mind.

[Shaid O Gray]

I don't think Charles turning the tables on Emma and Scott would necesarilly paint him as the Noble Mentor dude nor Scott as a goodey-boyscout if it revealed X-Force nor Emma as the evil cackling villainess if she felt betrayed by Scott's secret.
it would sure have been preferable to see more of a three-way conflict rather than Charles being put through therapy by Emma of all people. It could have been a bit more vicious really if the point was to reveal the humanity behind the three. Instead we get Emma lecturing Charles on morals.

I also think they missed an opportunity to show why charles is called the world's greatest telepath, Certainly given how many tricks we see Emma do lately. I expected more from this conflict I guess.

Okay, but first of all I didn't say that Charles turning the tables would make him the noble mentor guy. Don't put words in my mouth. My point was that many people's complaints seem to stem not from the actual issues raised here, but from they personal likes and dislikes of certain characters, or their disagreement about certain flaws in their favorite characters.

People who hate Emma wanted to see Charles roundly thrash her in a fight. People who hate Charles want to hate him some more. People who like Charles wanted him to tell Scott off, and don't like his newly found flaws. And I think many of you are disappointed because you didn't get the satisfaction of a beating. But that's not what the issue was about.

Charles IS stronger, but Emma was clever and did her prep work, and it didn't look like Charles was trying to fight all that hard. He was more arguing points. But who is stronger is nice for 'Hulk vs Thor' style debates and that's not what this issue was about.

This wasn't "Charles vs Emma'. This was Charles facing himself. Emma was just the catalyst and they and Scott only did it to check for Sinister, which is nothing that Charles himself wouldn't have done in their place. And nowhere does Emma judge him. If anything, she basically says: "Look you've done some crap. So have we all. You felt it was for the right reasons and now you're not so sure. But you did it, so face that and move on."

I think most here that didn't like it, were looking for some victory for their personal favorite character or at least to watch a character they hate bite the dust, either in a fight or argument. But there was no victor, because there wasn't really a fight of any kind.

I also don't believe for a second about that Rogue retcon Emma implanted that in his mind.

Look if you don't like the retcon, okay. I can see that. But that line just makes no sense. There's no reason for Emma to do anything like that, and it seems pretty clear that memory did happen, as Carey is preparing for Xavier to confront Rogue in a few months. Your explanation kinda sounds like fanfic based on Emma-hatred.

[pariah-1972]

Okay, but first of all I didn't say that Charles turning the tables would make him the noble mentor guy. Don't put words in my mouth. My point was that many people's complaints seem to stem not from the actual issues raised here, but from they personal likes and dislikes of certain characters, or their disagreement about certain flaws in their favorite characters.

People who hate Emma wanted to see Charles roundly thrash her in a fight. People who hate Charles want to hate him some more. People who like Charles wanted him to tell Scott off, and don't like his newly found flaws. And I think many of you are disappointed because you didn't get the satisfaction of a beating. But that's not what the issue was about.

Charles IS stronger, but Emma was clever and did her prep work, and it didn't look like Charles was trying to fight all that hard. He was more arguing points. But who is stronger is nice for 'Hulk vs Thor' style debates and that's not what this issue was about.

This wasn't "Charles vs Emma'. This was Charles facing himself. Emma was just the catalyst and they and Scott only did it to check for Sinister, which is nothing that Charles himself wouldn't have done in their place. And nowhere does Emma judge him. If anything, she basically says: "Look you've done some crap. So have we all. You felt it was for the right reasons and now you're not so sure. But you did it, so face that and move on."

I think most here that didn't like it, were looking for some victory for their personal favorite character or at least to watch a character they hate bite the dust, either in a fight or argument. But there was no victor, because there wasn't really a fight of any kind.



Look if you don't like the retcon, okay. I can see that. But that line just makes no sense. There's no reason for Emma to do anything like that, and it seems pretty clear that memory did happen, as Carey is preparing for Xavier to confront Rogue in a few months. Your explanation kinda sounds like fanfic based on Emma-hatred.She obviously enjoys torturing Xavier for whatever sick reason so she could easily implant some memories that didn't really happen it's not like she has any moral qualms about doing so.

[marvell2100]

Didn't Exodus do the same thing to Xavier earlier? I guess the difference is that Xavier fought back against an attack by Exodus and against Emma he didn't perceive what she was doing as an attack.

As far as him being able to handle Emma, while Emma is quite formidible, especially with her somewhat underhanded tactics from time to time, we've rarely seen Xavier cut loose(maybe against Mags in Fatal Attraction and vs Exodus) in any kind of fight. So I'm not sure if this is a good gauge of how they would fare against one another.

[k.i.n.g.]

I enjoyed the issue (and the direction Legacy has taken in the past few issues)...taking place mainly in the confines of Charles' introspective head.

http://i37.tinypic.com/3169s9i.jpg

[passenger]

Sorry for bumping a rather old thread,but Legacy takes more than a month to reach Greece.Anyway,in page 10,the one where Charlie gets slapped,Emma says about the lost memories:"I found a piece of it here,a piece there.And I've done an immaculate reconstruction.It's a little like splicing together damaged tape."

How does Emma,and the reader, knows that the above reconstruction is accurate?And how do we know she did not use Xavier's amnesia to corrupt the "damaged tape" she found for her own purposes,like to undermine Xavier as much as possible?Also,assuming her intentions were actually noble(??),considering that different people draw different conclusions from a solid book,imagine how complicated things become when you replace the book with a human mind.If we got Exodus,Jean Grey and Emma Frost read the same incomplete memories of Xavier,each would give his/her own "immaculate" version of how Xavier SHOULD act,according to each one's perception of the man himself.

Therefore,Emma's walkthrough in Charlie's mind cannot be considered as an objective one,and until he somehow gets his memories fully restored,Xavier remains at a serious disadvantage against whoever wants to paint him as a manipulative monster.

[maigen]

Sorry for bumping a rather old thread,but Legacy takes more than a month to reach Greece.Anyway,in page 10,the one where Charlie gets slapped,Emma says about the lost memories:"I found a piece of it here,a piece there.And I've done an immaculate reconstruction.It's a little like splicing together damaged tape."

How does Emma,and the reader, knows that the above reconstruction is accurate?And how do we know she did not use Xavier's amnesia to corrupt the "damaged tape" she found for her own purposes,like to undermine Xavier as much as possible?Also,assuming her intentions were actually noble(??),considering that different people draw different conclusions from a solid book,imagine how complicated things become when you replace the book with a human mind.If we got Exodus,Jean Grey and Emma Frost read the same incomplete memories of Xavier,each would give his/her own "immaculate" version of how Xavier SHOULD act,according to each one's perception of the man himself.

Therefore,Emma's walkthrough in Charlie's mind cannot be considered as an objective one,and until he somehow gets his memories fully restored,Xavier remains at a serious disadvantage against whoever wants to paint him as a manipulative monster.

Emma is a Saint. How dare you suggest such a thing.

[passenger]

Damn,you are right,how could I have missed those angelic wings? :tongue:

[maigen]

Damn,you are right,how could I have missed those angelic wings? :tongue:

Possibly they were hidden behind those massive boobies.

[streator]

i just read this last night... it was okay. not the greatest art.

i really hope that sinister isn't linked to anyone else from the past.

also, it seems like everyone in this book is trying to make xavier feel like he's been this horrible person, which yes, he has done some bad things in the past, but i still think that he has/had good intentions.

i guess i would have just expected scott & emma to seem a bit happier to see xaiver alive than they were in this issue, and to not completely treat him like a jerk (sinister suspicions aside).

[Pro]

i guess i would have just expected scott & emma to seem a bit happier to see xaiver alive than they were in this issue, and to not completely treat him like a jerk (sinister suspicions aside).

Scott is still very angry about losing some horrible traumatising memories about an ungratefull murderous brother he never knew.
Emma's a bitch.

And overall the characters in the marvel universe must be just as blase by now to death as we the readers are.

"You're alive? What took you so long this time?".