Should DC Incorporate Ledger's Interpretation into the Comics?

[JoshuaCee]

Does anyone feel that Heath Ledger's Joker trumps the comic book Joker as a definitive version? I think I may be leaning that way, myself. I loved the fact that The Dark Knight's Joker literally had no origin. Nothing. In the comics, we have detailed backstories that may or may not be true, but I think the character is far more dangerous when he doesn't even have that.

Usually, I'm not a fan of different interpretations in other forms of media seeping into my comics, but there is the rare occasion that can work well. Blade is probably the best example of this. The movie version is much, much cooler than anything done with the character beforehand. What do you guys think? Could it work with the Joker?

[Jolly Mon]

Absolutely no. Heath Ledger did a fine job in his performance, but the comics Joker has been around for nearly 70 years. The character, as is, is the reason that the Joker is the most popular Bat-villain and chosen for people like Ledger and Nicholson to portray.

[Nefarius]

Should DC Incorporate Ledger's Interpretation into the Comics?


No.Just No

[BadRobot22]

I think they should use something similar to the films universe for a series similar to Marvel's Ultimate range. Basically the universe Nolan created as an ongoing. Use Ledger's Joker for that.

For the actual Batman series... Probably not.

[nepenthes]

He did have an origin though;. the drunk dad, scarred wife, ripping off mob dealers- take your pick. Same as in the comics he was either comedian, jaded thief, or a devious and mysterious mobster who only pretends to be insane. Much of Ledgers Joker owes itself to the Killing Joke anyway, he's already in the comics.

If you're talking more about the look of Ledger yeah i would like to see that in more places, barring the cut smile though.

[AJM]

The cut smile is already in current Batman continuity in Grant Morrison's run - it was a result of being stitched up after the fake Batman shot him in the face, and can be best seen on the last page of R.I.P. part 1. How long it stays is anyone's guess, but i suspect that the success of the Dark Knight may lead to editorial decisions to keep it, in fact i suspect they may have suggested it in the first place to coincide with the film. Although it's probably out of continuity, Brian Azarello and Lee Bermejo's forthcoming Joker HB also uses it, so i think it may be here to stay...

[JoshuaCee]

He did have an origin though;. the drunk dad, scarred wife, ripping off mob dealers- take your pick. Same as in the comics he was either comedian, jaded thief, or a devious and mysterious mobster who only pretends to be insane. Much of Ledgers Joker owes itself to the Killing Joke anyway, he's already in the comics.

If you're talking more about the look of Ledger yeah i would like to see that in more places, barring the cut smile though.

In my opinion, the stories that Ledger's Joker told about himself, and the fleshed out, possible origin stories found in The Killing Joke and other stories are two different things. There's a difference between having the Joker spout off about something that may or may not be true, and going out of the way to show detailed flashbacks.

It's that distinction that makes Ledger's Joker seem more...origin-less?...than his comic book counterpart.

[nepenthes]

I see what you mean and that's important yeah. but I'm considering that many ordinary viewers would be like "so who IS the Joker?' and then recall that they actually have two detailed origins to ponder in their own minds. and they are detailed, he goes to lengths to describe them and they are high impact scenes. and there's no reason to cut to flashback at all, which makes that less a character decision but more to do with pacing, overall narrative, retaining some mystery and menace. Simply that both the comics and Dark Knight DO have multiple origins puts them more in common than the fact they dont actually show the origins divides them.


Joker has a cut smile in:
Batman 663 (continuity, healed)
Lovers and Madmen
Joker: Dark Knight (the Bermejo book)
Gotham Noir
and another seriously demented Elseworlds book whose name escapes me

[JoshuaCee]

Yeah, I don't see those scenes in The Dark Knight being possible origins. I see them as the Joker just messing with people. He was just talking to prolong the tension. Not once did I think while sitting there, "Oh, I wonder if this is true."

[Red_Knight]

Yeah, I don't see those scenes in The Dark Knight being possible origins. I see them as the Joker just messing with people. He was just talking to prolong the tension. Not once did I think while sitting there, "Oh, I wonder if this is true."

Then you are smarter than me. I swallowed the story about the abusive dad hook, line, and sinker and actually rolled my eyes a bit at the tired clichée. Later on, when the Joker told Rachel about his wife scarring him, I got it and grinned. :biggrin: Great to see the "multiple choice" origin retained.

Personality-wise, I think Ledger's Joker already is in the comic to a large extent. The only thing that seems to be missing is the philosophical edge, which I would like to see pop up from time to time. It may seem a little artsy at first, but it finally explains why the Joker thinks killing people is funny. In the comics, we are hardly ever given a reason. "He's crazy" doesn't count. Even crazy people have their own, twisted reasons for doing what they do. (Trust me, I've worked with mentally disturbed people. I should know) It's their own weird logic that makes them scary in my book. I often miss that in the comics. Many writers seem to have gotten lazy when it comes to the Joker. Giving him his own reasoning and logic could do wonders for the characters, IMHO.

[JoshuaCee]

Then you are smarter than me. I swallowed the story about the abusive dad hook, line, and sinker and actually rolled my eyes a bit at the tired clichée. Later on, when the Joker told Rachel about his wife scarring him, I got it and grinned. :biggrin: Great to see the "multiple choice" origin retained.

Personality-wise, I think Ledger's Joker already is in the comic to a large extent. The only thing that seems to be missing is the philosophical edge, which I would like to see pop up from time to time. It may seem a little artsy at first, but it finally explains why the Joker thinks killing people is funny. In the comics, we are hardly ever given a reason. "He's crazy" doesn't count. Even crazy people have their own, twisted reasons for doing what they do. (Trust me, I've worked with mentally disturbed people. I should know) It's their own weird logic that makes them scary in my book. I often miss that in the comics. Many writers seem to have gotten lazy when it comes to the Joker. Giving him his own reasoning and logic could do wonders for the characters, IMHO.


I agree that it would be interesting to see the more philosophical side of the Joker's motivations in the comics. However, I see Ledger's Joker's motivations as being completely different from the comics incarnation. In the comics, like you said, his single motivation seems to be that he's just that crazy. In the movie, he was an "agent of chaos." That's so much more interesting to me. It's not that he thinks murder is funny, it's that it's different from the norm. It's the yin to the rules' yang. I don't know. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around being so dedicated to opposing society, as most of are to following society. And I'm not talking about differences of opinions. I'm talking about working for the total opposite of the core understanding of what society is. And to follow that line of thought as effortlessly as the rest of us get out of bed in the morning and go to work is just so incredibly more interesting than anything the Joker has ever done in comic book form.

[Clea]

Does anyone feel that Heath Ledger's Joker trumps the comic book Joker as a definitive version? I think I may be leaning that way, myself. I loved the fact that The Dark Knight's Joker literally had no origin. Nothing. In the comics, we have detailed backstories that may or may not be true, but I think the character is far more dangerous when he doesn't even have that.

Usually, I'm not a fan of different interpretations in other forms of media seeping into my comics, but there is the rare occasion that can work well. Blade is probably the best example of this. The movie version is much, much cooler than anything done with the character beforehand. What do you guys think? Could it work with the Joker?


I don't think that the Nolan movie Joker trumps the comics version. Don't get me wrong: I ADORE Heath Ledger's version of the Joker. I think that the movie version was almost perfect. It perfectly captured the fact that the Joker is Batman's opposite and his ultimate foe. He is chaos and anarchy to Batman's order. He's a ruthless murderer who believes the worst of everyone and blows stuff up just for fun. All of that was great stuff. Where I think the movie missed though, is that it seemed to slot the Joker into a sort of urban terrorist role. I can see why they took that route and I think that it was highly effective for the story they were telling, but there is so much more to the comics Joker than mere terrorism. The comics Joker is bizarrely random. This is a guy who tried to patent fish, after all. That's one of the things that I have always loved about the character. The comics Joker is batsh!t crazy. The movie Joker seemed to be more lucid and cunning than crazy, IMO. Unfortunately, unless Nolan recasts the role, we'll never have the opportunity to see if he'd planned to expand the character and show us the Joker's weirder side. Pretty much all we got was the murdering psycho side. Fun, yes, but hardly all there is to the character, IMO.

[JTPencils]

Careful what you wish for as far as transferring things from the films back over into the comics they sprang from.

Or one day, you'll see a Batman costume with nipples on it.

Ledger's Joker was a decent take on the character... but nothing I'd want to see come along and "trump" what we've already had for this long! It was a fairly one sided take on this bizarre character, and that's fine for a single film. But I don't see that becoming the new template of how the character should be portrayed in the Bat books.

[matthewaos]

At the beginning I also though that it was such a cliche to use the abusive dad as an origin, but then I realized we are talking about a multiple choice origin. I think I would like some elements been absorbed in the comics, I think LEdger played so well that they should.

[Superboy-Prime]

what would be the difference?!

Ledger didn't bring anything new to the table, that the character in the comcs hasn't already done. and I'm not intersted in "punk drudge rock" looking joker.

[nixon]

I think the comics need a serious kind of Joker - I think someone on here wrote how they haven't liked how the Joker's been written for the last 20 years, and they brought up the very first appearance of the Joker, how different he is, a vicious guy with a grin, intense and calculating, like Ledger's take. If Batman can change every so often, then it's time Joker gets a refresh (which RIP's going for anyway).

[Super Buddies Forever]

I think he should be a mob hitman named Jack Napier who looks exactly like Heath Ledger, has Luke Skywalker's voice, and puts his clown makeup over his thick latin mustache.

Everyone wins!

[AJM]

Joker has a cut smile in:
Batman 663 (continuity, healed)



He still has the cut smile in 676 (R.I.P. #1)... and he also appears to have a scar on his forehead too... personally, i think his new look's great. He's been wearing the same suit for nearly 70 years and i think a revamp is long overdue, and i think Morrison's doing a good job of it. The scars, slicked-back hair and the smock all work for me, but most important is the characterization. Morrison started his Joker revamp back in the late Eighties in Arkham Asylum - he's always had a clear idea of his personality and it's only now, after almost 20 years, that he's returned to define it. The big moment we're waiting for is the next part of R.I.P., when hopefully we get to see exactly what he's made of...

[Dagger]

I'm hoping to see some of Heath's clicks from the movie show up in the comics. He is, imo, the best interpretation of the Joker I've seen in such a long time. I mean, I loves me some clown prince of crime, but the madman jovial joker bit has been going for almost 70 years. Characters are allowed to change and grow, and I think making him a bit more darker and serious maybe the direction the character should go in...for awhile.