When did Batman and Batwoman meet?

[Vidocq]

New Earth I mean. I don't follow Batwoman's appereances or read Gotham Underground. I know she met Nightwing but I haven't seen her in neither Batman or Detective other than The Penguin mentioning that she is hot.

So When did they met?

How did Bruce reacted?

[nepenthes]

Have they met? I didn't think so.

I figured she was being put back in the drawer already - all this fanfare announcing her, then a few petty mundane appearances...and then nothing. What a misfire.

Apart from being a lesbian there is absolutely nothing interesting or unique about her concept, even being gay isn't that interesting and it should never be used to justify a character. In fact she trivializes Batman by being a female clone of him, without the depth, ambiguity, darkness and obsession that make him a great figure. Kate Kane is rich, bored and well-trained...that's the *entire* package. It almost says that pretty much anyone with a few dollars and some spare time can become a Batman like figure....which should never be the case, not even close. All the other bat-family have either received training from the man himself or come from particular backgrounds that enable them to do what they do, and all of them are not quite normal people, where Kate Kane seems pretty well put together, boring even. Oh and she just a happens too date the ONLY other lesbian in Gotham, because all dykes in a major city know each other. Sorry but I don't see Montoya going with a rich blue-blood socialite like Kate, no way. Also DC wants to promote diversity so they introduce a gay character who pretends she's NOT gay? wtf.

They should have just made Huntress a lesbian if they wanted one so badly. She's already Batwoman anyway, essentially. And she's Catholic. ooh. even has a nun-inspired costume. immediately you've got a more interesting character than the closet gay socialite. Not too mention a more significant character.

In terms of getting credit for diversity there would be more integrity in revealing an established character to be gay, someone we're actually invested in, rather than just slapping together a weak reinvention of what was already a tacky and gratuitous idea in the first place. The original Batwoman, with her bat-lipstick and handbag, was only invented so that Wertham and other outraged preservers of childhood morality would know Batman that wasn't punching the brown with Robin. and she never developed into a distinct or worthy character at all, in fact Robin used to get pissed off because she was "thinking about roast chicken" (seriously) instead of helping them fight, that daffy woman. I don't know which is worse, then or now. Talk about continuing a legacy....a legacy of SHAME!


Between Huntress, Batgirl, Spoiler, Catwoman and Barbara I think we have a great and varied cast of female bat-family. DC should concentrate on developing those instead of introducing ill considered gimmicks they just have to sweep aside or forget about later on. Hopefully they can just say Kate was a strange product of the multiverse weirdness that was happening in Countdown or 52 or whatever that was. She clearly doesn't fit into the mainline Gotham city.

[carabas]

I find that you are leaping to a whole bunch of conclusions about a character that we don't even know the origin story of yet. Agreed, DC criminally has mishandled the character so far (or more accurately, chickened out of handling the character at all).

There's a Rucka/JH Williams III ongoing on the way though, that' s bound to be good.

[DonC]

I believe the Rucka/Williams series has been shelved.

[Brack360]

I thought that the Rucka/Williams series had been pushed back until after the release of The Dark Knight because of Warner's concerns that it might generate negative publicity for the movie (which doesn't make much sense). Batwoman was in the "Real Power of the DCU" poster with other female characters, and DC has stated that all of those characters will be starring in their own series or miniseries. I hope to see the Batwoman series sometime in 2009.

But to answer the original question, Batman and Batwoman haven't met yet. Batwoman has made only a handful of minor appearances so far, and very little has been revealed about her origins and backstory.

[Jody Garland]

Sometime in the Silver Age. Batman 679 shows Kate in her original, Silver Age costume. It's not without reason that she has been in action for years and has only recently made her debut to us.

[Vidocq]

Well that's just stupid. Why give a Character the Bat prefix in Gotham City if she is not going to be Part of the Bat Family?

And She dosen't have an Origin Story? She has been around for two years and had a mini with Montoya, couldn't they told an origin story then?

They seriously screwed a potentially good character.

[Chiroptera]

Well that's just stupid. Why give a Character the Bat prefix in Gotham City if she is not going to be Part of the Bat Family?

And She dosen't have an Origin Story? She has been around for two years and had a mini with Montoya, couldn't they told an origin story then?

They seriously screwed a potentially good character.

No origin, but one of the recent DC christmas specials did have a very nice story that fleshed out her personality a lot more. She's become a personal favorite of mine, what few scenes she's had have interested me. I'm impatient to actually see her get a mini-series to establish herself.
I don't know if it's still the case, but last I heard she is planned to be a member of the Justice League roster in the new comic about a JL lead by Hal Jordan.

[JohnShil]

I don't know if it's still the case, but last I heard she is planned to be a member of the Justice League roster in the new comic about a JL lead by Hal Jordan.

She is on the team, but Robinson said she's essentially there to add a bat-logo to the team and fill up the roster. He doesn't plan on character-building with her because she's Rucka's baby.

[Chiroptera]

She is on the team, but Robinson said she's essentially there to add a bat-logo to the team and fill up the roster. He doesn't plan on character-building with her because she's Rucka's baby.

Still, she's there. As long as she's there she won't slip into limbo!
Besides, I've got faith Rucka will make good use of her, I trust him not to forget about her.:biggrin:

[earl]

"Besides, I've got faith Rucka will make good use of her, I trust him not to forget about her."

I would figure that Batwoman would appear at some point in the Final Crisis: Revelations series considering how she was a part of The Question's story lines in 52 and the follow up Books of Blood.

[Captain Jim]

I believe the Rucka/Williams series has been shelved.

I'm not sure, but I suspect the same. I haven't heard anything about this for a real long time. And, IIRC, when DC was asked about Batwoman at the conventions, they told people to look for FC: Revelations, not a new series.

[carabas]

I would figure that Batwoman would appear at some point in the Final Crisis: Revelations series considering how she was a part of The Question's story lines in 52 and the follow up Books of Blood.She already was on the final page of Final Crisis #3.

[nepenthes]

I find that you are leaping to a whole bunch of conclusions about a character that we don't even know the origin story of yet. Agreed, DC criminally has mishandled the character so far (or more accurately, chickened out of handling the character at all).

There's a Rucka/JH Williams III ongoing on the way though, that' s bound to be good.

Well yeah but I'm 'leaping' to these conclusions a full two years after she's been introduced. They had some bold idea about increasing diversity but didn't actually have anything prepared beyond an empty gesture - otherwise we would have seen it by now, no? This to me is pretty tacky and reckless. As you say, they either chickened out, or they didn't have will or imagination to do it in a meaningful way in the first place. They've literally cloned Bruce Wayne- without the darker and character defining elements - added some boobs and called him a Jewish lesbian. Amazing.

As I mentioned before the most interesting thing (perhap only interesting thing) about this new Batwoman is how it ironically repreats the shamless and gratuitoius tradition of the first Kathy Kane.

Too bad about the Rucka Williams project - I had not heard of that and indeed it would have been quality.

The other option however is to give her to Ivory Madison, who did an execellent job on Huntress Year One and entered comics with a view to update Batwoman in the first place. Her story about her pitch to DC about is actually pretty damn strange. http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=149603

No origin, but one of the recent DC christmas specials did have a very nice story that fleshed out her personality a lot more. She's become a personal favorite of mine, what few scenes she's had have interested me. I'm impatient to actually see her get a mini-series to establish herself.
I don't know if it's still the case, but last I heard she is planned to be a member of the Justice League roster in the new comic about a JL lead by Hal Jordan.

cool can you remember what this is exactly?

I don't like all these appearance in non-batman titles either, before anyone even knows who she is. Give her a mini or one-shot, a proper intro, then go splashing her across these crossover/ cosmic adventure titles. It's a cheap way to make a new character seem relevant.

Why give a Character the Bat prefix in Gotham City if she is not going to be Part of the Bat Family?

And She dosen't have an Origin Story? She has been around for two years and had a mini with Montoya, couldn't they told an origin story then?

exactly

[carabas]

As you say, they either chickened out, or they didn't have will or imagination to do it in a meaningful way in the first place. They've literally cloned Bruce Wayne- without the darker and character defining elements - added some boobs and called him a Jewish lesbian. Amazing.
....
Too bad about the Rucka Williams project - I had not heard of that and indeed it would have been quality.It gets worse. The character was originally going to be introduced in her own ongoing series (by Devin Grayson, two full, unpublished issues completed, art and all), before they got cold feet and dropped her into 52, where non of the writers knew the first thing about the character, and already had other things on their minds.

[Captain Jim]

It gets worse. The character was originally going to be introduced in her own ongoing series (by Devin Grayson, two full, unpublished issues completed, art and all), before they got cold feet and dropped her into 52, where non of the writers knew the first thing about the character, and already had other things on their minds.

And Devin Grayson hasn't been heard from since. Strange.

[nepenthes]

okay I really want to know what those two unpublished issues contain. I don't think any new character would stand a chance just dropped into 52 like that. Funny that Devin Grayson, Ivory Madison and Greg Rucka must all be pissed off by this now. Of all those writers I would like to see Ivory do a rescue on Batwoman the most - it's just that I really can't see a niche that another female batfamily can fill; between Huntress, Batgirl, Oracle, Catwoman and Spoiler, we've got such great selection that any other addiions might just water them down

[CBikle]

it's just that I really can't see a niche that another female batfamily can fill; between Huntress, Batgirl, Oracle, Catwoman and Spoiler, we've got such great selection that any other addiions might just water them down

Yes, but none of them are lesbians. Yet.

It's tough; the new Batwoman's defining characteristic is that she's a lesbian, but storywise, it's not the sort of characteristic that will naturally come up in a character who sets aside their personal life to engage in a war on crime.

In fact, the only times I've seen it referred to were in the stories where Batwoman interacted with the Renee Montoya Question (who suffers from the same hidden lesbian story brick wall) and the lesbian elements won't really come to the forefront until these two characters re-establish a relationship together.

[carabas]

Funny that Devin Grayson, Ivory Madison and Greg Rucka must all be pissed off by this now. Of all those writers I would like to see Ivory do a rescue on Batwoman the mostFunny you should say that... Recently, Rucka is no longer DC exclusive. Ivory needs a bit more maturing though, her Huntress mini started out excellenty, but went completely off the rails in the final issues.

Yes, but none of them are lesbians. Yet.This is the crux, I think. No sexuality shall be associated with the Bat or the S-shield. Like how Apollo since Countdown: Arena is Wildstorm's version of the Ray instead of Superman.

[CBikle]

This is the crux, I think. No sexuality shall be associated with the Bat or the S-shield.

I think it's more about being cautious as to how they'll eventually approach it; right now, Kathy's "war on crime" lifestyle choice overshadows her sexual preference lifestyle choice, so the whole lesbian thing would rarely ever come up, especially since she's been portrayed as kind of a loner.

Batwoman will be in Robinson's Justice League book, but he's already said that he won't be doing much with the character out of respect for Rucka, so it's unlikely that you'll see her discussing her sexual preferences in that book, which is unfortunate as I think it'd be interesting to see how Green Lantern and Green Arrow would react to it.

I think DC will eventually address it, but in a respectful and highbrow manner so as not to piss off Batman fans, the homosexual community or anyone else.

DC doesn't want a Rawhide Kid on their hands.

[protege]

I thought that the Rucka/Williams series had been pushed back until after the release of The Dark Knight because of Warner's concerns that it might generate negative publicity for the movie (which doesn't make much sense). Batwoman was in the "Real Power of the DCU" poster with other female characters, and DC has stated that all of those characters will be starring in their own series or miniseries. I hope to see the Batwoman series sometime in 2009.

But to answer the original question, Batman and Batwoman haven't met yet. Batwoman has made only a handful of minor appearances so far, and very little has been revealed about her origins and backstory.

What's all this about a poster?

[nepenthes]

http://michaelmay.us/08blog/0428_DCwomen.jpg

yum :biggrin:

[carabas]

I think it's more about being cautious as to how they'll eventually approach it; right now, Kathy's "war on crime" lifestyle choice overshadows her sexual preference lifestyle choice, so the whole lesbian thing would rarely ever come up, especially since she's been portrayed as kind of a loner.Eh, I don't think we've seen even a fraction of her war on crime thing as we have seen of her sexuality. And that's taking into account that we've seen next to naught on her sexuality.

Batwoman will be in Robinson's Justice League book, but he's already said that he won't be doing much with the character out of respect for Rucka, so it's unlikely that you'll see her discussing her sexual preferences in that book, which is unfortunate as I think it'd be interesting to see how Green Lantern and Green Arrow would react to it.And I think this is a

I think DC will eventually address it, but in a respectful and highbrow manner so as not to piss off Batman fans, the homosexual community or anyone else.This paragraph boils over of wishful thinking, but I think it is a wee bit to late for that; I reckon both are already plenty pissed off for various reasons.
DC doesn't want a Rawhide Kid on their hands.Well, maybe they ought to have done that before announcing their lesbian Batwoman and then failing to produce her.

[Super Buddies Forever]

So was it ever established if this Kathy Kane is supposed to be the Post-Crisis version of the Pre-Crisis character, or a completely new entity? Following Morrison's edict that all Batman stories essentially happened, who was the Batwoman running around in the pre-yellow oval days?

[carabas]

So was it ever established if this Kathy Kane is supposed to be the Post-Crisis version of the Pre-Crisis character, or a completely new entity?She's brandnew.

Following Morrison's edict that all Batman stories essentially happened, who was the Batwoman running around in the pre-yellow oval days?It's not an edict, just his opinion. And it is unreveiled what the connection is, or even if there is any at all.

[IvCNuB4]

Right. Given what Morrison has hinted at so far in RIP, it's possible that some of those Silver Age adventures may have been hallucinations ...

[CBikle]

So was it ever established if this Kathy Kane is supposed to be the Post-Crisis version of the Pre-Crisis character, or a completely new entity? Following Morrison's edict that all Batman stories essentially happened, who was the Batwoman running around in the pre-yellow oval days?

The new Kathy Kane is replacing the old one (who was killed by Bronze Tiger pre COIE).

[Captain Jim]

Morrison's position, as I understand it, is that most of those old stories actually happened to the present Batman in some form or another. That doesn't mean they necessarily happened exactly as they were portrayed.

That being said, I don't think you can hold that there was a Batwoman named Kathy Kane early in Batman's history and another, totally unrelated Batwoman named Kathy (Kate) Kane in his present day continuity.

[Chad]

Morrison's position, as I understand it, is that most of those old stories actually happened to the present Batman in some form or another. That doesn't mean they necessarily happened exactly as they were portrayed.

That being said, I don't think you can hold that there was a Batwoman named Kathy Kane early in Batman's history and another, totally unrelated Batwoman named Kathy (Kate) Kane in his present day continuity.

In Morrison's first issue, Alfred cites Kathy Kane as one of the women Bruce Wayne has been associated with in the past and isn't the 50's Batwoman
pictured in a recent issue of his run? I haven't followed RIP since Batman 675 so I don't know if it's been established that those old stories are simply hallucinations as suggested, but so far that's 2-0 in favour of Morrison showing a preference for the original Kathy Kane.

[celticguy]

She is on the team, but Robinson said she's essentially there to add a bat-logo to the team and fill up the roster. He doesn't plan on character-building with her because she's Rucka's baby.

True but she will flesh out a personality more there just by being there. Once RIP and FC are over she might show up more in Batman/Detective. I expect Bats will not take kindly to a well meaning rookie.

[nepenthes]

She shouldn't be too hard to retrofit. Maybe lesbian Kathy Kane briefly tried out the superhero life as a young woman, decided it wasn't for her and pursued law full time instead. Orange and green Batgirl was her lover and they didn't take the gag very seriously, it was mostly just fun and adventure in that early era when Batman & Robin were fighting on giant typewriters etc. Now somethings happened recently to push her into it again with a new black costume instead of the old yellow. what's wrong with that?

[Captain Jim]

She shouldn't be too hard to retrofit. Maybe lesbian Kathy Kane briefly tried out the superhero life as a young woman, decided it wasn't for her and pursued law full time instead. Orange and green Batgirl was her lover and they didn't take the gag very seriously, it was mostly just fun and adventure in that early era when Batman & Robin were fighting on giant typewriters etc. Now somethings happened recently to push her into it again with a new black costume instead of the old yellow. what's wrong with that?

You forgot the part in the middle where she died. :wink:

[nepenthes]

nah, she faked her death to go live with Amazons on Themyscira :cool:

[AlistairCrane]

In Morrison's first issue, Alfred cites Kathy Kane as one of the women Bruce Wayne has been associated with in the past and isn't the 50's Batwoman
pictured in a recent issue of his run? I haven't followed RIP since Batman 675 so I don't know if it's been established that those old stories are simply hallucinations as suggested, but so far that's 2-0 in favour of Morrison showing a preference for the original Kathy Kane.

Bruce associated with Kate through social circles because they're both wealthy. The Batwoman "cameo" was a hallucination.

The current Batwoman is the only Batwoman to exist in modern DC continuity. The previous Batwoman was erased by COIE.