Spider-Man: One More Day TPB Review

[tpbreviewer]

Collects Amazing Spider-Man #544-545, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24 and Sensational Spider-Man #41 written by J. Michael Straczynski and drawn by Joe Quesada. Also contains interviews with Straczynski and Quesada taken from Marvel Spotlight: Spider-Man - One More Day/Brand New Day.

This book could also have been called Spider-Man: The Retconning. Or maybe Spider-Man: Continuity Kills. Or how about Spider-Man: Spidey's Life Sure Has Become A Mess Lately, But Now We're Gonna Start All Over And Also, MJ Has To Go. After six years of Straczynski, it's time to start all over for our arachnic friend, and it all starts here. This is not so much a Spider-Man story as it is a meta story, a story between stories, or continuities if you will. It hints at the beginning of a new age of Spider-Man, a simpler Spider-Man that is closer to what originally made him great. It's also a farewell to a character that readers of Spider-Man have grown to love (or hate, depends on whether you're an MJ-guy or a Gwen-guy...) and a farewell to a writer who will be remembered for revitalizing the series but also for a couple of stories that made fans cry for all the wrong reasons. I know this story received a lot of criticism when it originally came out, so I'm probably going to catch some flak when I say that I actually quite enjoyed it.

This book highlights what I consider the strength and weakness of the American style of comics, namely the heavy focus on continuity. Continuity has given us great story lines and magnificent runs and Spider-Man is a prime example of this. To this day people are still discussing whether Gwen Stacy was or was not the right girl for Peter Parker, and at a certain level that is great. But at the same time continuity makes a book more and more complex while at the same time restraining the writers. And sometimes the best thing to do is to start all over. Marvel's Ultimate line is proof of this, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Marvel's original universe is beginning to look more and more like the Ultimate universe.

Considering the consequences of what is going on here, whether the story itself is well told or not becomes a minor issue. But it just so happens that Straczynski does deliver on this, his final Spider-Man story. The plot itself is not important, what is important is the words, the feelings and the emotions. Peter and MJ know that this is the end, even though they don't want it. And Straczynski and Quesada actually succeed in conveying the sadness of the situation very well. The story is very emotional, and old time Spidey readers will have a hard time not felling a tear or two. A lot of effort has gone into making a story where the pictures talk as loud as the words, and it seems that Straczynski and Quesada have had a good understanding of each other when working on this book.

I have to admit I was surprised at the relatively high quality of the art in this book. It's been a while since Quesada did something like this, but apparently he hasn't lost the touch. Danny Miki is credited as inking part of the book, and I suspect this is the latter half, because that half does look a lot better than the first, which is a little rough in places. This book certainly leaves me wanting for Quesada to do more artwork, but I understand he's pretty busy doing other stuff, so it probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Whether you will like this story or not is going to depend on several things. First, do you want Spider-Man to start all over? Second, do you want to see MJ go? If the answer to any of these questions is no, you might want to find something else to read. If you're open for change, I suggest you give it a try.

7/10

[ShaggyB]

....a farewell to a writer who will be remembered for revitalizing the series but also for a couple of stories that made fans cry for all the wrong reasons.

I for one will not be remembering him in that way.... JMS took a character i liked and sucked the fun out of him.......

Decent review though....

[tpbreviewer]

I for one will not be remembering him in that way.... JMS took a character i liked and sucked the fun out of him.......

Decent review though....

I know what you mean. I remember reading the Stacy twins story and thinking WTF... At the same time, reading the first tpb of Straczynski's Spider-Man was what got me back into reading American comics again after a long hiatus, so I am grateful for that. And reading those first stories, with excellent art by JRJR, with all the freshness and feelings of a new beginning was a blast. I hope Brand New Day will be similar to that, but without all the suckiness that came after...

[yadadaimhollaing]

I know what you mean. I remember reading the Stacy twins story and thinking WTF... At the same time, reading the first tpb of Straczynski's Spider-Man was what got me back into reading American comics again after a long hiatus, so I am grateful for that. And reading those first stories, with excellent art by JRJR, with all the freshness and feelings of a new beginning was a blast. I hope Brand New Day will be similar to that, but without all the suckiness that came after...

so far ive enjoyed bnd a whole bunch. its such a nice breath of fresh air after the endings of jms run.

[yadadaimhollaing]

Collects Amazing Spider-Man #544-545, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24 and Sensational Spider-Man #41 written by J. Michael Straczynski and drawn by Joe Quesada. Also contains interviews with Straczynski and Quesada taken from Marvel Spotlight: Spider-Man - One More Day/Brand New Day.

This book could also have been called Spider-Man: The Retconning. Or maybe Spider-Man: Continuity Kills. Or how about Spider-Man: Spidey's Life Sure Has Become A Mess Lately, But Now We're Gonna Start All Over And Also, MJ Has To Go. After six years of Straczynski, it's time to start all over for our arachnic friend, and it all starts here. This is not so much a Spider-Man story as it is a meta story, a story between stories, or continuities if you will. It hints at the beginning of a new age of Spider-Man, a simpler Spider-Man that is closer to what originally made him great. It's also a farewell to a character that readers of Spider-Man have grown to love (or hate, depends on whether you're an MJ-guy or a Gwen-guy...) and a farewell to a writer who will be remembered for revitalizing the series but also for a couple of stories that made fans cry for all the wrong reasons. I know this story received a lot of criticism when it originally came out, so I'm probably going to catch some flak when I say that I actually quite enjoyed it.

This book highlights what I consider the strength and weakness of the American style of comics, namely the heavy focus on continuity. Continuity has given us great story lines and magnificent runs and Spider-Man is a prime example of this. To this day people are still discussing whether Gwen Stacy was or was not the right girl for Peter Parker, and at a certain level that is great. But at the same time continuity makes a book more and more complex while at the same time restraining the writers. And sometimes the best thing to do is to start all over. Marvel's Ultimate line is proof of this, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Marvel's original universe is beginning to look more and more like the Ultimate universe.

Considering the consequences of what is going on here, whether the story itself is well told or not becomes a minor issue. But it just so happens that Straczynski does deliver on this, his final Spider-Man story. The plot itself is not important, what is important is the words, the feelings and the emotions. Peter and MJ know that this is the end, even though they don't want it. And Straczynski and Quesada actually succeed in conveying the sadness of the situation very well. The story is very emotional, and old time Spidey readers will have a hard time not felling a tear or two. A lot of effort has gone into making a story where the pictures talk as loud as the words, and it seems that Straczynski and Quesada have had a good understanding of each other when working on this book.

I have to admit I was surprised at the relatively high quality of the art in this book. It's been a while since Quesada did something like this, but apparently he hasn't lost the touch. Danny Miki is credited as inking part of the book, and I suspect this is the latter half, because that half does look a lot better than the first, which is a little rough in places. This book certainly leaves me wanting for Quesada to do more artwork, but I understand he's pretty busy doing other stuff, so it probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Whether you will like this story or not is going to depend on several things. First, do you want Spider-Man to start all over? Second, do you want to see MJ go? If the answer to any of these questions is no, you might want to find something else to read. If you're open for change, I suggest you give it a try.

7/10

now that ive read your full review its pretty good. i actually enjoyed OMD apart from the fact that aunt may lives :mad: i dont read spoilers or solicits so i had no idea that before hand the point of this story was to end the marriage. quesada is an awesome penciler and i would love to see him do more.

[tpbreviewer]

now that ive read your full review its pretty good. i actually enjoyed OMD apart from the fact that aunt may lives :mad: i dont read spoilers or solicits so i had no idea that before hand the point of this story was to end the marriage. quesada is an awesome penciler and i would love to see him do more.

Well, if you wanted May to die, this book isn't going in your top 10 :smile: But then again, as the toughest woman in the Marvel Universe, I don't think she's going to die anytime soon.

Actually, I think the idea of sacrificing MJ for Aunt May is interesting. These two are certainly pulling Peter in different directions, MJ forcing him to grow up and become a Man while May's mere presence is chaining him to his youth. With OMD, Marvel has obviously chosen to go with the younger and more innocent Peter. I haven't really thought of these two as being opposing forces in Spider-Man mythology before, but now it seems so obvious.

[yadadaimhollaing]

Well, if you wanted May to die, this book isn't going in your top 10 :smile: But then again, as the toughest woman in the Marvel Universe, I don't think she's going to die anytime soon.

Actually, I think the idea of sacrificing MJ for Aunt May is interesting. These two are certainly pulling Peter in different directions, MJ forcing him to grow up and become a Man while May's mere presence is chaining him to his youth. With OMD, Marvel has obviously chosen to go with the younger and more innocent Peter. I haven't really thought of these two as being opposing forces in Spider-Man mythology before, but now it seems so obvious.

well i just want her to go away. i know the chance of that happening is slim to none but ill keep on wishing :wink:

i agree that it was interesting to see may vs mj. ive always believed that peter would always choose aunt may over saving mj if he had to choose. after being guilty of being responsible for uncle bens death no way would he allow himself to be responsible for aunt mays death as well and to indirectly be responsible for both his parental figures deaths. whie mj chose to be a part of peters life aunt may had no choice in the matter. i also think that both peter and mj believed that one day theyll be able to overcome the deal with mephisto.

[Shade 20x6]

OMD is the single-worst Spider-Man story of all time. It's the Superman 64 and Batman and Robin of the Spider-Man universe.

That's really all that needs to be said.

0.5/10

The only reason it gets half a point is because the artwork was nice for the most part.

[CloneSaga]

I have to admit I was surprised at the relatively high quality of the art in this book. It's been a while since Quesada did something like this, but apparently he hasn't lost the touch. Danny Miki is credited as inking part of the book, and I suspect this is the latter half, because that half does look a lot better than the first, which is a little rough in places. This book certainly leaves me wanting for Quesada to do more artwork, but I understand he's pretty busy doing other stuff, so it probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.


I agree that JQ's art is enjoyable. And I wish he would do more pencilling and a lot less EiC-ing!

I had no idea what was coming so I enjoyed the story up until the deal was sealed. I would give the story a 7.5 before the deal and a big fat zero for the rest. It is impossible for me to judge the arc as one entity, but I can salute both art and drama but not the Conclusion. The end of an era.

[yadadaimhollaing]

I agree that JQ's art is enjoyable. And I wish he would do more pencilling and a lot less EiC-ing!

I had no idea what was coming so I enjoyed the story up until the deal was sealed. I would give the story a 7.5 before the deal and a big fat zero for the rest. It is impossible for me to judge the arc as one entity, but I can salute both art and drama but not the Conclusion. The end of an era.

thats how i felt when i read it. it had such a nice start and the ending was depressing :frown: oh well im keeping it moving and enjoying the new asm :biggrin:

[xarathos]

YOu have to hand it to both those guys, it must take a lot of talent to produce what is referred to as the 'worst comic book issue of all time'. Not only did JMS get to do 90% of all he wanted to do, it was never going to go anywhere and he didn't 'get' Spider-man. He couldn't do more than three regular Spider-man characters and just did stupid things like 'he's dead and comes back in a cocoon for some reason' and 'he has a new costume for some reason'. Nothing was going to payoff.

'I quit'. Yes, they did. It didn't even seem like professional writing to me. Just go the next idea.:mad: Thanks for destroying Spider-man, JMS.

[Leocomix]

The Stacy twins story is the one that made me pay attention to the title again. I liked Gwen Stacy and I thought the story added depth to her character. It made her a better match for Peter. She too had made a huge mistake but finally faced her responsibility. Pete and Gwen were more similar than we thought and that was what made them so close.
As for OMD, it was good to see a fair review. I've noticed how most fans preferred not to speak favorably of that story because they were concerned of being in the minority due to the vocal loudness of those who didn't like it. It is not a masterwork but it is well above average.

[Choppa]

I have no problem admitting that I liked the story, but I hate the idea and all of BND. The story will still well told though.

[ZeoVGM]

OMD is the single-worst Spider-Man story of all time. It's the Superman 64 and Batman and Robin of the Spider-Man universe.

That's really all that needs to be said.

0.5/10

The only reason it gets half a point is because the artwork was nice for the most part.

Wow, hyperbole much?

It was written well (not great, but well). You and I both know it doesn't deserve anything below a 5.

[Billy Parker]

One More Day is one of the great Spider-Man stories of all time.

People that are upset by it can't see that, but the art and story are some of the highest quality that has truly every touched "Amazing Spider-Man."

People may hate the idea of the story, but the execution was damn good.

[tpbreviewer]

I'm impressed at the variety in opinions here. Some like BND but don't like OMD. Some like OMD but not BND. Some like both, and some think that both suck. I'm glad I'm not writing Spider-Man, it must be really hard to satisfy all of us. I can easily see, however, how a story like this can really provoke so many different reactions.

@yadadaimhollaing
I kind of hope they don't bring Mephisto back into the story again. This change should be one of those changes that aren't reverted, because reverting it would bring back so much unnecessary continuity stuff. I'm guessing Peter and MJ will get together again some time in the future, but it might take a while.

@CloneSaga + yadadaimhollaing
If you think of the story as part of continuity, I think you'll be disappointed by it. But the point is that the editorial decision was taken, so the story really just had to convey this decision, and at the same time say a proper farewell to MJ. I don't consider this story continuity, just like I will never consider the 90's Clone Saga or the Stacy twins stories continuity. But, unlike the other stories just mentioned, I think at least this story had a purpose that it fulfills pretty well.

@xarathos
You have a point in that JMS used very few of the traditional Spider-Man villains, and that's a little unfortunate considering he was writing the main Spider-Man title. I do, however, think that there were some pretty good stories in his run, but after six years I am also looking forward to something new and more Spidey-ish. I hope the new direction will bring Spider-Man back to basics, and so far it looks pretty good. I'm really looking forward to reading BND!

@Leocomix
That's an interesting POV, although I still disagree, but I guess it all depends on how you think about Gwen Stacy. I'm not old enough to have read the Gwen Stacy stories when they came out, so to me she is pretty much an iconic character. She is the faultless character that had to die because she was faultless, to show Spider-Man that there is evil in this world and therefore the world needs him. Even 30 years or so after her death Gwen Stacy remains one of the most important characters in the Spider-Man mythology, and I'd really wish writers would stop messing with her. But your POV is as valid as mine.

[CloneSaga]

The Stacy twins story is the one that made me pay attention to the title again. I liked Gwen Stacy and I thought the story added depth to her character. It made her a better match for Peter. She too had made a huge mistake but finally faced her responsibility. Pete and Gwen were more similar than we thought and that was what made them so close.


I had a bad feeling in my stomach when reading Sins Past, but it was so well accomplished with the retroactive flashbacks to MJ,Gwen&Norman back in 1970 or so that I had no problem with accepting the story.

I was kind of hoping it would turn out we were mislead by JMS, but I could deal with it and it did make the pretty Stacy girl more interesting. The last few years I had begun to think of her as just a boring predictable whiney girl (but stunning non-the-less), so this really added depth to her.

[Endless Flight]

Wow, hyperbole much?

This is the definition of hyperbole...


One More Day is one of the great Spider-Man stories of all time.

[Cyclopsj316]

I'd give JMS the credit for sins past and one more day... but technically, I can't.. seeing as those were really Joe Quesada's stories, not JMS. Yeah, editorial overrides / micro management can do that. Its no wonder JMS wanted to leave before OMD... as he said, it didnt feel like it was his writing... so technically, JMS shouldn't get the credit for those two horror stories...Joey Q should.

[ShaggyB]

I'd give JMS the credit for sins past and one more day... but technically, I can't.. seeing as those were really Joe Quesada's stories, not JMS. Yeah, editorial overrides / micro management can do that. Its no wonder JMS wanted to leave before OMD... as he said, it didnt feel like it was his writing... so technically, JMS shouldn't get the credit for those two horror stories...Joey Q should.

so that leaves him in full blame for "the other" right? (and didnt JMS admit to Sin's Past being his worst story, one he wished to retconn?)

[Cyclopsj316]

so that leaves him in full blame for "the other" right? (and didnt JMS admit to Sin's Past being his worst story, one he wished to retconn?)

Yes... JMS wanted to retcon sins past.. cause it wasnt originally his idea. Joey Q overrode him, so yes, i understand why JMS would want to retcon it out of existence. It was horrid. By the time he would have been able to retcon Joey Q's sins past results, he was faced with Joey Q again in OMD... so much so, that this time.. he wanted his name off the book. ( unlike sins past, so OMD must have made him more upset... that or it was the straw that broke the camels back for JMS.. understandably so... )

I kinda liked the organic shooters... ( spidey 2099 bias right here. :wink: )

Leave the other alone.. it was cool..... ( aw crap, who am I kiddin'... crap all over it.... )

[ShaggyB]

Yes... JMS wanted to retcon sins past.. cause it wasnt originally his idea. Joey Q overrode him, so yes, i understand why JMS would want to retcon it out of existence. It was horrid. By the time he would have been able to retcon Joey Q's sins past results, he was faced with Joey Q again in OMD... so much so, that this time.. he wanted his name off the book. ( unlike sins past, so OMD must have made him more upset... that or it was the straw that broke the camels back for JMS.. understandably so... )

I kinda liked the organic shooters... ( spidey 2099 bias right here. :wink: )

Leave the other alone.. it was cool..... ( aw crap, who am I kiddin'... crap all over it.... )

lol oh i do... the only good thing in the other was the mj thinking pete was dead stuff.... that was written well.

[Billy Parker]

I'd give JMS the credit for sins past and one more day... but technically, I can't.. seeing as those were really Joe Quesada's stories, not JMS. Yeah, editorial overrides / micro management can do that. Its no wonder JMS wanted to leave before OMD... as he said, it didnt feel like it was his writing... so technically, JMS shouldn't get the credit for those two horror stories...Joey Q should.

If JMS had his way in "Sins Past" it would have been WORSE!!! Peter with freakin' kids?!?!?!?! Thank God Joe Q saved that horrible idea the best he could. Then we'd have people moaning right now, "Where's Peter's kids. I like them. Let's see them."

[Cyclopsj316]

If JMS had his way in "Sins Past" it would have been WORSE!!! Peter with freakin' kids?!?!?!?! Thank God Joe Q saved that horrible idea the best he could. Then we'd have people moaning right now, "Where's Peter's kids. I like them. Let's see them."

" Wheres peters baby that got kidnapped? I liked her. Let's see her." :tongue:

[Cyclopsj316]

lol oh i do... the only good thing in the other was the mj thinking pete was dead stuff.... that was written well.

Actually, the thing that really ticked me off... was that i really hoped for the return of Ben Reilly.. i don't know why i was thinking that... but he didnt show up outta that cocoon, and that really ticked me off... ARRRGHH !! Cyke SMASH !!!

[Billy Parker]

Actually, the thing that really ticked me off... was that i really hoped for the return of Ben Reilly.. i don't know why i was thinking that... but he didnt show up outta that cocoon, and that really ticked me off... ARRRGHH !! Cyke SMASH !!!

Why do people like Ben Reilly? He sucked bad!!

[ShaggyB]

Why do people like Ben Reilly? He sucked bad!!

its the blonde hair... blonde always have more fun...... ok yeah seriously i dont know.....

[Leocomix]

That's an interesting POV, although I still disagree, but I guess it all depends on how you think about Gwen Stacy. I'm not old enough to have read the Gwen Stacy stories when they came out, so to me she is pretty much an iconic character. She is the faultless character that had to die because she was faultless, to show Spider-Man that there is evil in this world and therefore the world needs him. Even 30 years or so after her death Gwen Stacy remains one of the most important characters in the Spider-Man mythology, and I'd really wish writers would stop messing with her. But your POV is as valid as mine.

Well, I was around and her death was a shock, totally unexpected. Of course I learned later it had been decided in an editorial meeting to electrify the series. I can't accept "the faultless character that had to die because she was faultless, to show Spider-Man that there is evil in this world and therefore the world needs him" theory. To start with, she wouldn't have died had he not been Spider-Man. He should have stopped being Spider-Man at that point just as he started to be heroic after the death of his uncle but this is never addressed in the comics. Second, the random death of characters never made good fiction, so JMS provided a valid reason.
Having "known" the character when she was "alive" I don't have that "she is now holy" attitude that people who came later display. The brain trust made a big mistake in not bringing her back. Brubaker mentioned that all good Cap writers wxantd to bring back Bucky only to retreat. It's the same with Gwen, the good writers want to bring her back (at least JMS did want to and Bendis and McKeever did bring her in their own series and they both did one of the best Spider-Man)
That wouldn't be difficult: the Gwen who did was the clone while the clone was the true one.

[Cyclopsj316]

Why do people like Ben Reilly? He sucked bad!!

He was cool as a clone "scarlet spider"... just not as the real peter "spiderman"...

[Splatt]

Why do people like Ben Reilly? He sucked bad!!

He was written well and people identified more with him than they identified with bad luck Pete?

[Billy Parker]

He was written well and people identified more with him than they identified with bad luck Pete?

WTF?! Wrong all over.

[Splatt]

WTF?! Wrong all over.

Well, hey. It's all subjective. I mean, you can't smack someone in the head with Thor's hammer and expect him to say "I've changed my mind. Ben Reilly sucks!"

Oh, by the way, your tie sucks!

[JGC]

This thread is amazing! Topics being discussed so far:

- the quality/credibility of OMD
- thoughts on JMS's true story for 'Sins Past' & 'OMD'
- should JoeQ draw more comics?
- is Gwen more interesting for showing weakness?
- does Ben Reilly suck?
- MJ vs. Aunt May - i.e. growth vs. youth
- and finally, BND.

[tpbreviewer]

Well, I was around and her death was a shock, totally unexpected. Of course I learned later it had been decided in an editorial meeting to electrify the series. I can't accept "the faultless character that had to die because she was faultless, to show Spider-Man that there is evil in this world and therefore the world needs him" theory. To start with, she wouldn't have died had he not been Spider-Man. He should have stopped being Spider-Man at that point just as he started to be heroic after the death of his uncle but this is never addressed in the comics. Second, the random death of characters never made good fiction, so JMS provided a valid reason.
Having "known" the character when she was "alive" I don't have that "she is now holy" attitude that people who came later display. The brain trust made a big mistake in not bringing her back. Brubaker mentioned that all good Cap writers wxantd to bring back Bucky only to retreat. It's the same with Gwen, the good writers want to bring her back (at least JMS did want to and Bendis and McKeever did bring her in their own series and they both did one of the best Spider-Man)
That wouldn't be difficult: the Gwen who did was the clone while the clone was the true one.

This conversation inspired me to look this story up on wikipedia, and there is a pretty good article on it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_Gwen_Stacy_Died

The article states that the basic reason for killing off Gwen was that the writers simply didn't know what to do with her. If she continued to live the logical conclusion would be for Peter and Gwen to marry, and the people at Marvel didn't want that, because they were afraid it would restraint them in what kinds of stories they could tell. It's interesting how this sounds very much like the motivations for OMD... It furthermore states that they also considered killing off Aunt May (and Robbie Robertson), and again the resemblance to OMD is striking.

So in essence, Gwen had to die so that Spider-Man (the book, not the character) could live on, pretty much like MJ had to go in OMD so that Spider-Man could live on.

The article claims that Gwen's death is remarkable for two reasons. The first is that it was the first lasting death of a major character in American comics. The second is that it heralded the end of the silver age and the beginning of darker and somewhat more mature stories in comic books. This is pretty much what I meant by saying Gwen's death symbolizes the evil in this world. It may seem obvious now, but back then the notion of evil in comic books was different, e.g. it didn't kill. I'm pretty sure you're aware of this, I'm just trying to stress my point, so bear with me...

I may be repeating myself here, but I think Gwen would do best to stay dead. Her death signified not only Spider-Man growing up, but superhero comics as a whole growing up. To me she seems like a pure character, exactly because she hasn't been going through all the retcons and what-not that characters that have lived for 40+ years have been submitted to. How many times have Aunt May died now only to come back a little later? How many times have MJ been gone? To me this does subtract from the overall sympathy that I carry towards each character, they just seem a little less real each time something weird happens to them.

Again it all comes down to continuity, and how to handle characters through 40 years of it. I know that to enjoy super hero comics you need suspension of disbelief, but this doesn't apply as much to human affairs as it does to people flying around in the air. Organic web shooters I can grip, but Gwen coming back would be too much for me...

[tpbreviewer]

A couple more links!

This one details how various writers unsuccessfully tried to get rid of MJ in the 90's: http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2008/09/18/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-173/

And here's some more wikipedia goodness:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sins_Past#Sins_Past_and_Sins_Remembered

If you go down to the Sins Past section you will see that JMS actually wanted to bring back Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn in OMD!

I didn't know that JMS originally intended Peter to be the father for Gwen's kids. I don't think I would have liked this version of the story either, though. The wiki-article also claims that JMS wanted the twins to be retconned away in OMD, but haven't they been that implicitly? I would say so.

[yadadaimhollaing]

That wouldn't be difficult: the Gwen who did was the clone while the clone was the true one.

that is the exact story the writer who brings her back will say.

[JGC]

I didn't know that JMS originally intended Peter to be the father for Gwen's kids. I don't think I would have liked this version of the story either, though. The wiki-article also claims that JMS wanted the twins to be retconned away in OMD, but haven't they been that implicitly? I would say so.

Nobody knows what happened to the realizations JMS came up with in Sins Past since BND started. In the current NWTD storyline, Spider-Man does make reference to fighting a Grey Goblin - which I assume is Gabriel Stacy.

It's another infuriating detail that I'm sure we'll never get answers to since Marvel doesn't want to touch the Sins Past storyline ever again. Sarah and Gabriel are pretty much gone. Marvel's lucky so many people are screaming for answers about Harry Osborn - it overshadows Gwen's kids.

[tpbreviewer]

Nobody knows what happened to the realizations JMS came up with in Sins Past since BND started. In the current NWTD storyline, Spider-Man does make reference to fighting a Grey Goblin - which I assume is Gabriel Stacy.

It's another infuriating detail that I'm sure we'll never get answers to since Marvel doesn't want to touch the Sins Past storyline ever again. Sarah and Gabriel are pretty much gone. Marvel's lucky so many people are screaming for answers about Harry Osborn - it overshadows Gwen's kids.

Well, I wouldn't mind if I never heard of them again. Personally I think starting again from a clean slate was a good idea, especially with all the stuff that was introduced during Straczynski's run. I never really bought the idea of animal totems and all that, so I'm looking forward to BND, and I can live with not getting all the answers to the questions posed the last six or so years.

[Leocomix]

The article claims that Gwen's death is remarkable for two reasons. The first is that it was the first lasting death of a major character in American comics. The second is that it heralded the end of the silver age and the beginning of darker and somewhat more mature stories in comic books. This is pretty much what I meant by saying Gwen's death symbolizes the evil in this world. It may seem obvious now, but back then the notion of evil in comic books was different, e.g. it didn't kill. I'm pretty sure you're aware of this, I'm just trying to stress my point, so bear with me...

I may be repeating myself here, but I think Gwen would do best to stay dead. Her death signified not only Spider-Man growing up, but superhero comics as a whole growing up. To me she seems like a pure character, exactly because she hasn't been going through all the retcons and what-not that characters that have lived for 40+ years have been submitted to. How many times have Aunt May died now only to come back a little later? How many times have MJ been gone? To me this does subtract from the overall sympathy that I carry towards each character, they just seem a little less real each time something weird happens to them.

Again it all comes down to continuity, and how to handle characters through 40 years of it. I know that to enjoy super hero comics you need suspension of disbelief, but this doesn't apply as much to human affairs as it does to people flying around in the air. Organic web shooters I can grip, but Gwen coming back would be too much for me...

First, the growing up that Spider-Man can endure is limited. As a teen, his time was the sixties because that was the age of the largest population demographics (the baby boomers). The sixties incidentally continued as a movement until about 1972. Spider-Man is a coming of age story.
The Silver Age didn't end with Gwen Stacy but earlier. It ended at different times in different series. It's O'Neil/Adams work on Green Lantern/GreenArrow that challenged notions of good and evil.
The death of Gwen isn't the first lasting death in American comics but in American comic books. There had been huge deaths in comic strips. The way I see it Spider-Man hadn't been recognisable. BND was a huge improvement but they could return him to his student roots.
I understand that returning characters subtract from your sympathy for them but it also subtract from the sympathy for the main character to kill supporting characters.
But even reckoning that Gwen's deah symbolises the end of the Silver Age, her return can symbolise the much-needed end of the dark age.

[Foxy Gogo]

Why do people like Ben Reilly?


He was cool, yo. That's why!

[Dark Soul # 7]

Whether you will like this story or not is going to depend on several things. First, do you want Spider-Man to start all over? Second, do you want to see MJ go? If the answer to any of these questions is no, you might want to find something else to read. If you're open for change, I suggest you give it a try.

7/10Problem is that what One more Day gave us wasn't change.

It was regression of the character and status quo.

[oldschool]

Nobody knows what happened to the realizations JMS came up with in Sins Past since BND started. In the current NWTD storyline, Spider-Man does make reference to fighting a Grey Goblin - which I assume is Gabriel Stacy.

It's another infuriating detail that I'm sure we'll never get answers to since Marvel doesn't want to touch the Sins Past storyline ever again. Sarah and Gabriel are pretty much gone. Marvel's lucky so many people are screaming for answers about Harry Osborn - it overshadows Gwen's kids.

I really don't get the feeling that many care about Gwen's kids and that abomination of a story-----"Sins Past" was not controversial because, to be controversial, you should folks on both sides of the like/don't like equation. That seemed to be a pretty universally reviled story and appears to have been buried under a rock in Utah somewhere.

[Foxy Gogo]

Hey, I liked Sins Past.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Hey, I liked Sins Past.I like a few ideas in it, mostly the idea of dirtying up perfect little Gwen Stacy. But the overall story was lacking.

[Foxy Gogo]

Lacking what? Thought it was pretty ginchy myself.

[BlueCutey]

How about lacking any sort of continuity sense to what went on that was shown in the original stories?

I apologize that I don't remember the site, but there's a HUGE essay (and I mean huge) that goes into excutiating detail as to just why it was pretty much not just impossible for Gwen to have ever been pregnant, but the existence for the story pretty much puts both Gwen and MJ as extreme bitches...

Now I may not be quite as negative as the writer, but there really are limits to what even a retcon should be able to do...and this is one case where it went WAY past the limit.

[Foxy Gogo]

Weirdness! I read an article that was the exact converse to that and actually made the story make sense in terms of continuity and characterization.

[Shade 20x6]

Wow, hyperbole much?

It was written well (not great, but well). You and I both know it doesn't deserve anything below a 5.

No, not hyperbole at all. I have never, ever read a worse story in over 15 years of reading Spider-Man. Not even close (okay, maybe Sins Past was close).

It's fortunate it got any points at all. If the artwork had sucked, it would have deserved negative points.

IMO, anyone who believes that OMD was actually a good story loses major credibility points in my book.

[Shade 20x6]

WTF?! Wrong all over.

No, you're wrong. I was around during the Clone Saga and many, many people had this viewpoint of Ben Reilly. He was intentionally made this way, in fact, to settle people into the notion of Ben replacing Peter as Spider-Man.

People were outraged at the idea of losing 20 years of continuity, not with the character of Ben himself.

[CBF]

anyone who believes that OMD was actually a good story loses major credibility points in my book.

Exactly. WHY do away with 40+ years of continuity??? It made me end my subscription to that book, and it used to be #1 on my list.

[tpbreviewer]

First, the growing up that Spider-Man can endure is limited. As a teen, his time was the sixties because that was the age of the largest population demographics (the baby boomers). The sixties incidentally continued as a movement until about 1972. Spider-Man is a coming of age story.
The Silver Age didn't end with Gwen Stacy but earlier. It ended at different times in different series. It's O'Neil/Adams work on Green Lantern/GreenArrow that challenged notions of good and evil.
The death of Gwen isn't the first lasting death in American comics but in American comic books. There had been huge deaths in comic strips. The way I see it Spider-Man hadn't been recognisable. BND was a huge improvement but they could return him to his student roots.
I understand that returning characters subtract from your sympathy for them but it also subtract from the sympathy for the main character to kill supporting characters.
But even reckoning that Gwen's deah symbolises the end of the Silver Age, her return can symbolise the much-needed end of the dark age.

I agree that at it's heart, the story of Spider-Man is a coming of age story. Peter coming to terms with the mantra of With Great Power etc. is Peter coming of age. But there is a limit as to how long a coming of age story can carry on until it loses it's credibility, and I think that at some point it has to either change into a different kind of story or start all over. There is of course the third option of ending the series, but you wouldn't want to do that with a good money making brand... Obviously the editorial decision was to stick to the original concept by rebooting the series, instead of trying to evolve it into something else, and I personally agree with that decision. I certainly wouldn't have minded if they'd returned him to his student days either.

Of course, you're right about the Silver Age staring at different times in different series. I couldn't remember which came first, Rogers Stern's Spider-Man or the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series.

And I would agree with you that it's unfortunate for the main character to kill off his own supporting cast, except that in the case of Gwen Stacy the situation was such that you can hardly blame Spider-Man for killing her, as there was certainly no deadly intent on his side. But that's another discussion altogether...

[tpbreviewer]

IMO, anyone who believes that OMD was actually a good story loses major credibility points in my book.

Well, if you think of it as a story that's part of continuity, chances are you won't like it. The point is that the story is just Marvel telling you that the series is being rebooted, and it's time for Peter and MJ to say goodbye. I think most people's opinion of OMD is pretty much dictated with their opinion of the reboot.


Exactly. WHY do away with 40+ years of continuity??? It made me end my subscription to that book, and it used to be #1 on my list.

Because 40 years of continuity becomes a heavy burden when you want to tell new original stories. This is something that people who have read Spider-Man for the last 15 years or so should know very well. Just think of all the BS that characters like May, MJ, Green Goblin etc. have been exposed to in that time when continuity didn't fit the plans of whoever was writing the series at the time.

[Shade 20x6]

Well, if you think of it as a story that's part of continuity, chances are you won't like it. The point is that the story is just Marvel telling you that the series is being rebooted, and it's time for Peter and MJ to say goodbye. I think most people's opinion of OMD is pretty much dictated with their opinion of the reboot.



Because 40 years of continuity becomes a heavy burden when you want to tell new original stories. This is something that people who have read Spider-Man for the last 15 years or so should know very well. Just think of all the BS that characters like May, MJ, Green Goblin etc. have been exposed to in that time when continuity didn't fit the plans of whoever was writing the series at the time.

We're still waiting for those new, original stories. So far, BND has basically just been a rehash of old stories with minor tweaks.

And if they wanted a fresh start without the "heavy burden" of continuity...um...isn't that what Ultimate and the half-dozen other Spider-Man titles on the market are for?

[CBF]

Exactly, wtf? Why do people still defend this? Ultimate is for the teenaged Parker. If they wanted to make him single and living with his Aunt May again, just tell the kids to go read Ultimate. But we all know that wasn't it, it was MJ. Amazing was the only comic that I had been reading for years since my youth that NEVER f--ed with the canon story, NEVER changed the person behind the mask, and NEVER retconned its continuity. Until now. I know that JMS did this somewhat, the prime example of F-ing with the story would have to be "Sins Past" but I thought it was creative even though I hated him messing with Gwen Stacy, who I have always felt was Peter's soul mate. But it was "OMD" that made me not pick up a new Amazing comic since, after all these years, and I will continue to not do so until Pete and MJ overcome Mephisto's deal. I saw it coming since Civil War, and decided to end my collection with the rebirth in "The Other." I mean, really, what was so bad about being married to MJ? I have yet to hear one relevant reason. Everyone keeps saying that the marriage made the book stale, the writers didn't know how to write new and fresh stories...yada, yada, yada. Well guess what? That wasn't MJ's fault for being married to Spidey, it was the writers' fault for not writing good stories! Whatever happens in a book - it's on them. If they couldn't write a fresh new story from so-and-so point in time, then its time to get a new writer who can. It's all about their abilities and talent. You can't tell me that every writer came across this block, just because MJ was in there? Some of Spidey's writers did a damn good job with the marriage, and MARVEL's mainstream Spidey universe needed to advance forward, not backward. He's getting older after every arc, why couldn't he have a wife for good? K, I'm done. I just don't see why they did it.

[tpbreviewer]

We're still waiting for those new, original stories. So far, BND has basically just been a rehash of old stories with minor tweaks.

And if they wanted a fresh start without the "heavy burden" of continuity...um...isn't that what Ultimate and the half-dozen other Spider-Man titles on the market are for?


Exactly, wtf? Why do people still defend this? Ultimate is for the teenaged Parker. If they wanted to make him single and living with his Aunt May again, just tell the kids to go read Ultimate. But we all know that wasn't it, it was MJ. Amazing was the only comic that I had been reading for years since my youth that NEVER f--ed with the canon story, NEVER changed the person behind the mask, and NEVER retconned its continuity. Until now. I know that JMS did this somewhat, the prime example of F-ing with the story would have to be "Sins Past" but I thought it was creative even though I hated him messing with Gwen Stacy, who I have always felt was Peter's soul mate. But it was "OMD" that made me not pick up a new Amazing comic since, after all these years, and I will continue to not do so until Pete and MJ overcome Mephisto's deal. I saw it coming since Civil War, and decided to end my collection with the rebirth in "The Other." I mean, really, what was so bad about being married to MJ? I have yet to hear one relevant reason. Everyone keeps saying that the marriage made the book stale, the writers didn't know how to write new and fresh stories...yada, yada, yada. Well guess what? That wasn't MJ's fault for being married to Spidey, it was the writers' fault for not writing good stories! Whatever happens in a book - it's on them. If they couldn't write a fresh new story from so-and-so point in time, then its time to get a new writer who can. It's all about their abilities and talent. You can't tell me that every writer came across this block, just because MJ was in there? Some of Spidey's writers did a damn good job with the marriage, and MARVEL's mainstream Spidey universe needed to advance forward, not backward. He's getting older after every arc, why couldn't he have a wife for good? K, I'm done. I just don't see why they did it.

Again, I have yet to read BND as it hasn't come out in TPB yet, but I've heard and read a lot of praise for the series so I'm looking forward to reading it.

I believe the reason Marvel wanted to reboot Spider-Man after 40 years of continuity, is that they felt the series had strayed too far from it's original basic concept, that of a young man growing up and coming of age. A coming of age story that continues for 40 years kind of loses it's credibility, so it was either that or changing the concept of the character. As Peter became older and got married the series, at least in my eyes, lost a lot of what set it apart from other Marvel series in the very beginning. You could argue that other stuff was added to the concept along the way to make up for that, but the people at Marvel chose to go with the original concept in favor of the built up continuity. Maybe part of their motivation was seeing the success of Ultimate Marvel Spider-Man, and they wanted to bring some of the distinctiveness they saw in that series back to Amazing.

So getting rid of MJ was done in order to get back to the original Spider-Man theme of coming of age, and therefore getting rid of her by divorce or death were really not alternatives, as that would just give the series a darker tone (well, it should!) and that was probably not the intention. It doesn't have to do with writer's not being able to tell good stories with the married setup, it has to do with the writers (and editors) wanting to tell different stories than what is possible with the married setup. And using Ultimate Spider-Man does not solve the problem, because when buyers think of Spider-Man they think of Amazing Spider-Man. Potential new readers who just got out of the movie cinema will not be content with some alternate universe series, they want the real deal.

Now this is just theory on my part, and it's certainly possible that Marvel had different and far more nefarious motivations, but if the above is anywhere near what they were thinking I personally do see the rationale. I can easily enjoy the 40 years of Spider-Man that came before, without the current series sharing continuity with the past.

Btw, it's not exactly true that Spider-Man has never been retconned before. I would argue that the entire MU was retconned when they introduced the sliding timescale, and this certainly affected Spider-Man too.

[tpbreviewer]

It turns out that according to Guggenheim the only thing that was retconned was the wedding, everything else is as it was before, so I guess that negates some of my arguments. I'll adjust it to just say that probably Marvel's reasoning was that they wanted a single Peter but they didn't want to bring the darkness into the series that a divorce or death would inevitably bring with it.

Damn, that means Sins Past and The Other weren't retconned away, what a shame...

[CBF]

Again, I have yet to read BND as it hasn't come out in TPB yet, but I've heard and read a lot of praise for the series so I'm looking forward to reading it.

I believe the reason Marvel wanted to reboot Spider-Man after 40 years of continuity, is that they felt the series had strayed too far from it's original basic concept, that of a young man growing up and coming of age. A coming of age story that continues for 40 years kind of loses it's credibility, so it was either that or changing the concept of the character. As Peter became older and got married the series, at least in my eyes, lost a lot of what set it apart from other Marvel series in the very beginning. You could argue that other stuff was added to the concept along the way to make up for that, but the people at Marvel chose to go with the original concept in favor of the built up continuity. Maybe part of their motivation was seeing the success of Ultimate Marvel Spider-Man, and they wanted to bring some of the distinctiveness they saw in that series back to Amazing.

So getting rid of MJ was done in order to get back to the original Spider-Man theme of coming of age, and therefore getting rid of her by divorce or death were really not alternatives, as that would just give the series a darker tone (well, it should!) and that was probably not the intention. It doesn't have to do with writer's not being able to tell good stories with the married setup, it has to do with the writers (and editors) wanting to tell different stories than what is possible with the married setup. And using Ultimate Spider-Man does not solve the problem, because when buyers think of Spider-Man they think of Amazing Spider-Man. Potential new readers who just got out of the movie cinema will not be content with some alternate universe series, they want the real deal.

Now this is just theory on my part, and it's certainly possible that Marvel had different and far more nefarious motivations, but if the above is anywhere near what they were thinking I personally do see the rationale. I can easily enjoy the 40 years of Spider-Man that came before, without the current series sharing continuity with the past.

Btw, it's not exactly true that Spider-Man has never been retconned before. I would argue that the entire MU was retconned when they introduced the sliding timescale, and this certainly affected Spider-Man too.

So, basically, you're saying that the whole appeal to Amazing was the idea that he was growing up and coming of age...? If that's what you're saying, then I would have to say that Spidey was already grown up, and already came of age. Sure, he had more growing to do - and that's what an adult relationship does, helps you grow, etc. So saying that it "strayed from its original concept" - I mean, what did they expect it to do? Pete can't stay 16 forever, man. As he grows and evolves, so would his series. I mean, the 40+ years of continuity tie together a lifetime of experiences, and his marriage to MJ was exactly what he needed all these years, as well as what MJ needed (coming from her unstable background). They really did need each other. I don't know how to emphasize that more. He was becoming the Peter we all knew he would become one day, and why did they have to intervene with that?

As well, you say that Spidey was never retconned. Well, I'm not sure of that, there was a period that I wasn't around comics for a long time, but I'm basically referring to his continuity. Having 43 years of continuous history means it was never rebooted.

So, good points, but I'm afraid my views are set. I don't see what the reason was to pull Pete out of his adult life. It doesn't make for an interesting story for me, just an irrelevant one. Who cares that the writers wanted to tell stories without MJ and Pete being single? That point of his life was over, so you missed your chance, come up with something new in Pete's adulthood. And I say screw the people watching the movies and then looking for comics that tie into that, or whatever. If that's really who they were aiming for in any percentage, then they've lost me as a consumer altogether. The comics were written for the fans who have been reading Amazing all these years, faithful and loyal subscribers and ones they picked up along the way. That's my whole point in a sense. So again, what was so bad about MJ, and Peter being in an adult relationship (marriage)?

[Leocomix]

Peter being married for years makes him an adult while the whole idea is to have a boy calling himself a man, a sidekick being the main character. There is no way a married Peter could match the appeal of his younger self. There is nothing preventing him from being 16 forever, that's the way it's going in Ultimate.
It's the characters with the most stories published (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man) who got retconned. It should happen soon to the X-Men and Wolverine.

OMD is a good story but there are emotional bias blinding most people to it. That fact that they hate it is just a reverse of love. A bad story isn't hated, it's mostly ignored. The worst stories are those who few people read and of which there was little to be said. OMD isn't bad, it's controversial.

[CloneSaga]

OMD is a good story but there are emotional bias blinding most people to it. That fact that they hate it is just a reverse of love. A bad story isn't hated, it's mostly ignored. The worst stories are those who few people read and of which there was little to be said. OMD isn't bad, it's controversial.

OMD is both bad and controversial.

Like Mephisto would care about the marriage of two New Yorkers? Stupid, unbelievable, lazy, provocative, unnecessary, out of character for both Mephisto, Peter and MJ. Only character not acting out of character was Joe "SinsPast" Q.

In other words OMD=BAD.

[tpbreviewer]

I wouldn't say that OMD was a good story as much as it was a good decision. The story was so-so in terms of plot, however the mood of the story was really well done, especially the final scene with Pete and MJ. I think the decision of rebooting the series and returning some of the brigthness was a great idea.

And yes, it was a very controversial decision, and that's why people discuss it so much.

I think it has to do with some people caring more for Spider-Man the character and other people caring more for Spider-Man the book. People who care about the character wants to see Pete/Spidey grow up and live through a whole life, and people who care about the book firsthand want the book to retain the original concept of coming of age. You can't really have both I guess...

[Leocomix]

OMD is both bad and controversial.

Like Mephisto would care about the marriage of two New Yorkers? Stupid, unbelievable, lazy, provocative, unnecessary, out of character for both Mephisto, Peter and MJ. Only character not acting out of character was Joe "SinsPast" Q.

In other words OMD=BAD.

What? Mephisto caring about a sacro-sanct marriage that makes fanboys squeal, what a clever meta-textual comment, don't you think? Comics work best as metatext, when they reflect the world, so if fandom believes the marriage is important, it's normal Mephisto would as well. Why do you think complainers identified Quesada with Mephisto? OMD=GOOD