So, I've been thinking about homophobia . . .

[Sally Sensational]

And I've come to the conclusion that the old saw about homophobic men being closet homosexuals isn't quite right.

I don't think the typical homophobic man is a closet homosexual afraid that he'll enjoy the attention if a gay man comes onto him. I think he's more like a closet rapist.

Think about it: your average homophobic man is the type that's most likely to grab some unsuspecting woman's butt in a bar or look down her shirt and then get upset that she doesn't appreciate his violation of her personal space. He views women he considers sexually attractive as his prey and his role in the sexual dynamic as naturally and rightfully that of a predator. In short, he's the type that has to rely on extrinsic motivation like potential outside consequences such as jail or a murderous husband, brother, etc. to keep himself from clubbing some poor girl over the head and dragging her off to his cave.

Thus, since he views the sexual dynamic as one of "the one who is attracted is the predator" and "the one who is attractive is the prey" and it's the predator's natural role to hunt, entrap, and in some way violate the prey, he would view ALL potential sexually-driven interactions in this way. Consequently, what he fears from a homosexual man expressing an attraction to him is NOT that he might find the attraction palatable, but that, in that expression, he himself becomes the prey, open to all the same sorts of violations that he perpetrates on women. Which, naturally, as he views himself as the predator, causes him no end of fear.

So, what do you think? Agree with me? Disagree?

[Gail Simone]

I have zero patience for bigots of all stripes, so it's almost impossible for me to defend them in any way, but I think both suggestions are not really helpful.

The idea that all homophobes are closet gays just is not credible to me. And the idea that they're all closet molesters is too much, as well.

The thing is, you can outgrow homophobia with knowledge and experience and proximity. That suggests to me that there's hope for many of these people, even if they piss me off no end in the meantime.

I'm not living that life so I may not be observing correctly, but it seems to me that homophobia is an ignorance issue, more than a sexual one.

[TCJohnson]

I have zero patience for bigots of all stripes, so it's almost impossible for me to defend them in any way, but I think both suggestions are not really helpful.

The idea that all homophobes are closet gays just is not credible to me. And the idea that they're all closet molesters is too much, as well.

The thing is, you can outgrow homophobia with knowledge and experience and proximity. That suggests to me that there's hope for many of these people, even if they piss me off no end in the meantime.

I'm not living that life so I may not be observing correctly, but it seems to me that homophobia is an ignorance issue, more than a sexual one.

I agree completely.


My future brother-in-law is, for the most part, a really great guy. His views on homosexuality really pisses me off, however. Biggest homophobe I have ever met. I have never heard him talk violence about gays (or anybody) but he can't even be in the room when a show with a gay character is on. Seriously.

I agree with Gail. The reason he acts the way he does is because he has been programmed that way, first in highschool then a tour of duty as a marine.

I will say that I have never seen him be disrespectful to women or anybody else...even gays to their face. And to call him a closet racist...never in a million years.

[Black Atom]

Too many assumptions. Not all homophobes or anti-gay individuals are disrespectful to women. Some may harbor both qualities, but then both can be indicators of a lack of education/exposure to progressive ideas in general. It's also a pretty big leap from that to rapist.

While I do think some men are made uncomfortable having the sexual power roles reversed (even by aggressive women), I think anti-gay attitudes develop long before they reach that sort of deliberation. Like most bigotry, homophobia is a resistance to accept foreign attitudes or ideas that threaten an individual's narrow world view.

[Monty_Cristo]

makes sense. not really pertaining to the topic but i've had my butt grabbed by gay men and straight women before. sometimes it's flattering.

anyways, i think most homophobes are people with inferiority complexes. they think the mere association with "gayness" will gain them the label of "weak" or "less masculine." that's a death-curse for someone who isn't secure in themselves.

[Charles RB]

I'd have to agree, it's usually an ignorance thing people can grow out of.

Though I would be interested now to see how many sex-attackers are also homophobic.

[Monty_Cristo]

I'd have to agree, it's usually an ignorance thing people can grow out of.

Though I would be interested now to see how many sex-attackers are also homophobic.

how would you accurately gauge something like that? sociopaths aren't exactly known for truthful self-reporting. i can't imagine any felon, at least, admitting to being okay with the gay.

[DrewEdwards]

I have to echo a lot of others on this thread. Most bigots aren't Nazi storm troopers or something. They're just ignorant people that can learn to be better.

[Black Atom]

John Wayne Gacy was known to be anti-gay.

[JeffreyWKramer]

John Wayne Gacy was known to be anti-gay.

So are a lot of those Republicans who get caught trying to do IM sex with interns or seeking blowjobs in airport bathrooms. There definitely are people for whom anti-gay sentiments represent self-loathing or insecurity regarding their own identity, but as with just about every other human behavior, you can get the same result from a lot of different causes. Human behavior is extremly multi-determined.

Some people that don't like gays really don't like their own gay urges. For some others, they aren't comfortable around their own gender, so the idea of someone being sexual with their own gender seems creepy. Others, they were taught to hate, via cultural channels (religion, bigot family, etc.). For some, they may firmly believe in something (political or religious ideology) that says gay = bad, so they believe the anti-gay stuff as part of the package. Some others, they are just insecure, bully-mentality assholes that like to pick on someone they regard as lower-class or less acceptable than their hateful selves. For others, they are just ignorant about the topic, and they fear or dislike what they don't understand. And oftentimes a mix of the influences/reasons above - plus any of boatloads others - is involved.

[Black Atom]

This is tenuously on-topic but...has anyone else noticed in those Final Crisis Dr. Light ads, it totally looks like he's being raped? Maybe that's just an inference, since the ads say something to the effect of "Where were you when Dr. Light finally got his comeuppance?".

[Monty_Cristo]

This is tenuously on-topic but...has anyone else noticed in those Final Crisis Dr. Light ads, it totally looks like he's being raped? Maybe that's just an inference, since the ads say something to the effect of "Where were you when Dr. Light finally got his comeuppance?".

i don't know but two rapes don't make a right.

[Dazzler]

I've never really believed that all homophobes are closet gays, really. I think some, or maybe even a lot are, but not as many as one would think.

I think about my cousin, who's a truck driver, gleefully telling stories at the dinner table about picking up "fags", then beating them within an inch of their life and dumping on the highway. (He's the same one who showed up after the graveyard shift at my work one night, asking my co-workers whether they knew whether I was gay or not....and the same guy who strangled me to unconsciousness when I was 10. He was 20.) I don't know whether he did it because he really wanted to fuck them or not, but I can tell you that I wouldn't put it past him in a second to rape someone, male or female. His views on women are appalling, small minded, and clearly buying into hyper-machismo, and I've seen him treat some pretty great women like shit. And those are the ones he supposedly "respects".

I think that each homophobe has their own weird reasons for being homophobes, for sure. But I think a lot of it has to do with just as much control issues are rapists and other violent offenders. I think they like the feeling of feeling superior to someone. And, unfortunately, gay people offer a suitable target that a lot of people wouldn't question them on. It's the control path of least resistance.

--Dazz

[Gail Simone]

I've never really believed that all homophobes are closet gays, really. I think some, or maybe even a lot are, but not as many as one would think.

I think about my cousin, who's a truck driver, gleefully telling stories at the dinner table about picking up "fags", then beating them within an inch of their life and dumping on the highway. (He's the same one who showed up after the graveyard shift at my work one night, asking my co-workers whether they knew whether I was gay or not....and the same guy who strangled me to unconsciousness when I was 10. He was 20.) I don't know whether he did it because he really wanted to fuck them or not, but I can tell you that I wouldn't put it past him in a second to rape someone, male or female. His views on women are appalling, small minded, and clearly buying into hyper-machismo, and I've seen him treat some pretty great women like shit. And those are the ones he supposedly "respects".

I think that each homophobe has their own weird reasons for being homophobes, for sure. But I think a lot of it has to do with just as much control issues are rapists and other violent offenders. I think they like the feeling of feeling superior to someone. And, unfortunately, gay people offer a suitable target that a lot of people wouldn't question them on. It's the control path of least resistance.

--Dazz

Your cousin sounds like an asshole. Sally's theory might fit him just right.

[ShaunN]

Dear Dazzler,

Your cousin sounds like one dangerous, sick freak. I hope it's only a matter of time before he ends up in jail.

Sincerely,

Shaun


I've never really believed that all homophobes are closet gays, really. I think some, or maybe even a lot are, but not as many as one would think.

I think about my cousin, who's a truck driver, gleefully telling stories at the dinner table about picking up "fags", then beating them within an inch of their life and dumping on the highway. (He's the same one who showed up after the graveyard shift at my work one night, asking my co-workers whether they knew whether I was gay or not....and the same guy who strangled me to unconsciousness when I was 10. He was 20.) I don't know whether he did it because he really wanted to fuck them or not, but I can tell you that I wouldn't put it past him in a second to rape someone, male or female. His views on women are appalling, small minded, and clearly buying into hyper-machismo, and I've seen him treat some pretty great women like shit. And those are the ones he supposedly "respects".

I think that each homophobe has their own weird reasons for being homophobes, for sure. But I think a lot of it has to do with just as much control issues are rapists and other violent offenders. I think they like the feeling of feeling superior to someone. And, unfortunately, gay people offer a suitable target that a lot of people wouldn't question them on. It's the control path of least resistance.

--Dazz

[Michael P]

This is known in sociological circles as the "Some People Are Just Assholes Theory."

[Chris Hansbrough]

This is known in sociological circles as the "Some People Are Just Assholes Theory."

I believe that works. you can add self serving to the list too in a lot of cases where douchebags use it as a political tool.

[Calybos]

Agreed. Homophobes aren't "closet" anything.

They're blatant, obvious assholes.

[DavidAllred]

Thus, since he views the sexual dynamic as one of "the one who is attracted is the predator" and "the one who is attractive is the prey" and it's the predator's natural role to hunt, entrap, and in some way violate the prey, he would view ALL potential sexually-driven interactions in this way. Consequently, what he fears from a homosexual man expressing an attraction to him is NOT that he might find the attraction palatable, but that, in that expression, he himself becomes the prey, open to all the same sorts of violations that he perpetrates on women. Which, naturally, as he views himself as the predator, causes him no end of fear.

So, what do you think? Agree with me? Disagree?

I think there's something to the idea. In the ancient world, a male wasn't a homosexual unless he was in the position of being the recipient of the penetration. Many men of status kept both male and female servants and indulged themselves sexually on both genders. In some circles they were not usually not considered homosexuals "proper" because they had the position of power / dominance / or as you say, "predation."

I could dig out the sources, but I'm too lazy.

[jesse_custer]

Others, they were taught to hate, via cultural channels (religion, bigot family, etc.).

I believe this factor is responsible for the majority of homophobes.

[Draconomicon]

anyways, i think most homophobes are people with inferiority complexes. they think the mere association with "gayness" will gain them the label of "weak" or "less masculine." that's a death-curse for someone who isn't secure in themselves.


This.
I really don't think that homophobes are all closet rapists, or even a large percentage of them. It is that many boys are raised by their family and surroundings with the idea that being gay is weak, and men are nothing if not competitive. So, tell us we are inferior through something, and we will try to not be.

It really is largely born out of the way someone has been raised and ignorance, imho.