CBR: And Hell Followed: Cornell talks Captain Britain & MI:13

[CBR News]

Writer Paul Cornell talks to CBR about his series' most recent revelations
(and resurrections), and teases "Hell Comes to Birmingham," the new arc that
kicking off in "Captain Britain & MI:13" #6.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18038).

[drwho]

Uhh shouldnt that horse have black bat wings? And cornell still seems clueless about the whole ebony blade bs with bp.

[Guest_1001]

Uhh shouldnt that horse have black bat wings? And cornell still seems clueless about the whole ebony blade bs with bp.

He's said (on more than one occasion) that "we'll get to it". He also mentioned that Dane was using "a facsimile of the original".

[PaStella]

I am glad Faiza Hussain is going to stay in the book. I really liked her character.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

The Ebony Blade will be explored. It's been promised. But to be honest I think that Marvel editorial need to make a call from the Panther's pov, as well. I could easily see a crossover issue between the two books early next year to sort it out.

For the time being you have to just accept that both parties have an Ebony Blade, and neither can be 100% sure whether the blades are real, fake or alternate. There will be an answer eventually, but it'll need exploring.

Loving that Strider pic, btw. Quality.

But I am hoping that Pat Oliffe is only filling in for an issue. I want Kirk on this one for as long as possible.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Double post. Daily board fritz.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Double post shenanigans.

[Joe Acro]

For the time being you have to just accept that both parties have an Ebony Blade, and neither can be 100% sure whether the blades are real, fake or alternate. There will be an answer eventually, but it'll need exploring.
My general thought on the matter is that as of New Excalibur 'til now, Dane has been carrying Proctor's Ebony Blade.

Why he needs the Ebony Blade at all, though, is a different question, and one that definitely needs answering.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

My general thought on the matter is that as of New Excalibur 'til now, Dane has been carrying Proctor's Ebony Blade.

Why he needs the Ebony Blade at all, though, is a different question, and one that definitely needs answering.

It was answered in New Excalibur. He HAS to carry it, to stop it falling into other hands. This is apparently the purpose of the Black Knight through History.

[Joe Acro]

It was answered in New Excalibur. He HAS to carry it, to stop it falling into other hands. This is apparently the purpose of the Black Knight through History.I can see that being the reason for owning it (and one could even use Bloodwraith as example for why), but I fail to see why he has to carry it.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I can see that being the reason for owning it (and one could even use Bloodwraith as example for why), but I fail to see why he has to carry it.

It's a fair point. But where exactly do you store a blade of pure evil which corrupts all who are near it, for safekeeping? :biggrin:

[Joe Acro]

It's a fair point. But where exactly do you store a blade of pure evil which corrupts all who are near it, for safekeeping? :biggrin:
Dane's a smart guy with a fair amount of scientific knowledge.

He could make something.:biggrin:

[RolandJP]

Maybe Panther crafted his own ebony blade out Vibranium if it isnt the real one. For that matter maybe its forged from the same material. I think a Beta Ray Bill slash Thor compromise is needed.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Maybe Panther crafted his own ebony blade out Vibranium if it isnt the real one. For that matter maybe its forged from the same material. I think a Beta Ray Bill slash Thor compromise is needed.

But the Panther didn't craft his. He confiscated it off the faux black knight.

[RedRonin]

But I am hoping that Pat Oliffe is only filling in for an issue. I want Kirk on this one for as long as possible.
Same here. Kirk was a big selling point to me. I'm not sure I'd stick with the series with Oliffe on art.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Same here. Kirk was a big selling point to me. I'm not sure I'd stick with the series with Oliffe on art.

Well, PC is still talking about Kirk in the interview. I think it's a breather issue.

EDIT: From Cornell's Blog:

This week, on Wednesday/Thursday depending on which side of the pond you're on, issue five of Captain Britain and MI-13 will be in your comic shops. It acts as both an epilogue to 'The Guns of Avalon' and a prologue to 'Hell Comes to Birmingham', and features the lovely art of Pat Olliffe, who's doing this one issue, very much in the spirit of our established art style, to keep us absolutely on schedule. It's been great to get Pat's pages and Leonard's for issue six arriving in my inbox at the same time. Leonard's with us for the duration, don't worry!

[Comet Man]

I prefer Oliffe's art, and please get the Black Knight a costume already!

I'd really like for him to look like the Black Knight again. The tee shirt and jeans with the helmet just isn't doing it for me.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I prefer Oliffe's art, and please get the Black Knight a costume already!

I'd really like for him to look like the Black Knight again. The tee shirt and jeans with the helmet just isn't doing it for me.

To be fair, to date, we have not seen him in any deliberate battle setting. If he were actually going out with the intention of fighting he might put some armour back on. But the idea that Dane would be chillin' in plate-mail? That's just silly. :biggrin:

[mightyness]

I already dropped this series. It started all wrong and put Captain Britain in yet another generic looking costume. Nothing beats the one designed by Alan Davis. The current look isn't much different than Union Jack's this new look is just plain boring. Black Knight has been handled horribly and doesn't even seem remotely similar to the Dane Whttman of the past. I'd only collect this series if a new writer came on board.

[Guest_1001]

I already dropped this series. It started all wrong and put Captain Britain in yet another generic looking costume. Nothing beats the one designed by Alan Davis. The current look isn't much different than Union Jack's this new look is just plain boring. Black Knight has been handled horribly and doesn't even seem remotely similar to the Dane Whttman of the past. I'd only collect this series if a new writer came on board.

Are you kidding? This series couldn't have been more right. It had you gripped from the very beginning, had the perfect opening arc, great dialogue and every character -- including Dane, whether you liked it or not -- was handled fantastically.

And, hopefully to put that ridiculous "the new costume looks too much like Union Jack's" statement finally to rest:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/452014-captainbritainmi13_03_secondprinting_super.jpghttp ://www.dynamicforces.com/images/UnionJackLondonFallingTPB.jpg

So, yeah, they're the same. Except for colour, mask, belt, union flag size, union flag position and that red bit that goes over Union Jack's crotch. But how different do you want them to be? There's only so long you can live in the past with Alan Davis' costume and considering how great Cap's resurrection was, it'd be silly to keep that costume. Especially considering how great the new one is . . .

[CaptainCanada]

I like the new look a lot better; the old costume was too busy, I think; the new design is simpler, more iconic.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I already dropped this series. It started all wrong and put Captain Britain in yet another generic looking costume. Nothing beats the one designed by Alan Davis. The current look isn't much different than Union Jack's this new look is just plain boring. Black Knight has been handled horribly and doesn't even seem remotely similar to the Dane Whttman of the past. I'd only collect this series if a new writer came on board.

Are you kidding?

Dear God, this may well be the first time that Captain Britain has been written properly in 15 years! As a hero, as a champion - and not some sad caricature of a bumbling Englishman drinking tea and doing nothing of consequence.

Yes, the new costume is different from Davis' design. But to call it generic is a bit unfair. This costume is all about standing out as an individual. And not just another Captain. This is all about Brian Braddock, not hiding behind the mask, and draped in his national colours and flag. That IS the Union Flag (It's only a Union JACK when flown at sea, incidentally). Union Jack will always be the B-List hero beneath Brian. But his chief strength is not the national icon, but the black ops working class hero. Two very different roles. two very different heroes.

And I personally feel that Dane's development and characterisation here is some of the best in years. It's actually playing with some very logical elements of the Black Knight which have been ignored for far too long.

And, hopefully to put that ridiculous "the new costume looks too much like Union Jack's" statement finally to rest:

So, yeah, they're the same. Except for colour, mask, belt, union flag size, union flag position and that red bit that goes over Union Jack's crotch. But how different do you want them to be?

Indeed. It's kinda odd. Because just as many people accused Union Jack of ripping off Captain Britain when he lost the utility belt, and started wearing the all in one body stocking, back in Knights of Pendragon...

There's only so long you can live in the past with Alan Davis' costume and considering how great Cap's resurrection was, it'd be silly to keep that costume. Especially considering how great the new one is . . .

Absolutely. This is the perfect time for a change of threads to match the new status quo. And it IS a great change.

I like the new look a lot better; the old costume was too busy, I think; the new design is simpler, more iconic.

I'm a huge fan of the Davis costume - but I also feel that it while it is an incredibly strong design it does also now have the negative association of its connection to Brian at his most bumbling, AS that caricature Brit. And many people cannot get past that image. It's what Captain Britain has descended into, rather than what he actually is.

A clean break was very much needed. And this is a great way of reinforcing that.

[Joe Acro]

Black Knight has been handled horribly and doesn't even seem remotely similar to the Dane Whttman of the past.
Dane Whitman is being handled quite well, but isn't really similar to the way he's been in the past. It's been explained in-story. He's acting different because he's using the Ebony Blade again and is trying his hardest to thwart its bloodlust.

Admittedly, though, his heart being made of stone completely threw me.

[Doc Goblin]

I'm a huge Black Knight fan and like his look in MI:13. I wouldn't want to see him go back to the head-to-toe medieval knight appearance. I hate when characters look like they just stepped out of the wrong century. Dane's a knight of the 21st century, and I prefer him to look like it. As long as the basic helmet and jacket look remains, I wouldn't mind seeing further tweaks to his look though.

[XPac]

The Ebony Blade will be explored. It's been promised. But to be honest I think that Marvel editorial need to make a call from the Panther's pov, as well. I could easily see a crossover issue between the two books early next year to sort it out.

For the time being you have to just accept that both parties have an Ebony Blade, and neither can be 100% sure whether the blades are real, fake or alternate. There will be an answer eventually, but it'll need exploring.

Loving that Strider pic, btw. Quality.

But I am hoping that Pat Oliffe is only filling in for an issue. I want Kirk on this one for as long as possible.

Didn't Dane already come to the conclusion that he was carrying a fake Ebony Blade in Excalibur?

[bkdane]

Paul said he will be exploring all of the Black Knight questions posed so far. Remember last issue , while he was dying he mentioned Sean Dolon, that someone will come for the blade and a women? I hope he explains what happened to the "Avalon" sword and shield and why all of these Ebony Blades (His, BP"s, Bloodwraiths, and Proctors) are around.

One question though, wasn't Strider a white horse?

[RedRonin]

Well, PC is still talking about Kirk in the interview. I think it's a breather issue.

EDIT: From Cornell's Blog:
Ah. Thank you very much.

[mightyness]

Dane Whitman is being handled quite well, but isn't really similar to the way he's been in the past. It's been explained in-story. He's acting different because he's using the Ebony Blade again and is trying his hardest to thwart its bloodlust.

Admittedly, though, his heart being made of stone completely threw me.

I just happen to disagree to me this doesn't even resemble the same character that has appeared in the past. Plus we have seen Dane Whitman affected by the Ebony Blade before and he didn't act out of character because of it. To me it is just the case of poor writing.

Also what is the point of putting Captain Britain back in the classic Davis designed costume only to change to some really boring looking costume. Why not just use the version we saw in the previous Excalibur series. IMO this is the worst Captain Britain costume yet, only the Britannic costume was worst. I would really have like to see something more in the vein of the Davis costume or the original Captain Britain costume.

[Joe Acro]

Plus we have seen Dane Whitman affected by the Ebony Blade before and he didn't act out of character because of it. To me it is just the case of poor writing.
That's kinda the point. He isn't being affected by the Ebony Blade because he's acting a bit unlike himself.

[bkdane]

I just happen to disagree to me this doesn't even resemble the same character that has appeared in the past. Plus we have seen Dane Whitman affected by the Ebony Blade before and he didn't act out of character because of it. To me it is just the case of poor writing.

Also what is the point of putting Captain Britain back in the classic Davis designed costume only to change to some really boring looking costume. Why not just use the version we saw in the previous Excalibur series. IMO this is the worst Captain Britain costume yet, only the Britannic costume was worst. I would really have like to see something more in the vein of the Davis costume or the original Captain Britain costume.

I think Paul is doing a great job. He will make Dane more than a "C" list character. Give him a chance.

[Cthulhudrew]

But where exactly do you store a blade of pure evil which corrupts all who are near it, for safekeeping?

I'm wondering at what point Dane lost his connection to the blade that allowed him to summon it to himself. Hope that part is addressed if/when they ever explain the situation with the blades.

[drwho]

marvels next big event crisis of infinite ebony blades :biggrin:

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Dane Whitman is being handled quite well, but isn't really similar to the way he's been in the past. It's been explained in-story. He's acting different because he's using the Ebony Blade again and is trying his hardest to thwart its bloodlust.

Admittedly, though, his heart being made of stone completely threw me.

Yes, that was an out of the blue nod to continuity. But it WAS a nod to continuity, and that's what impressed me.

I'm a huge Black Knight fan and like his look in MI:13. I wouldn't want to see him go back to the head-to-toe medieval knight appearance. I hate when characters look like they just stepped out of the wrong century. Dane's a knight of the 21st century, and I prefer him to look like it. As long as the basic helmet and jacket look remains, I wouldn't mind seeing further tweaks to his look though.

I still don't see it as implausible that he could pick up the armour for specific missions - be that plate or chain-mail. He probably will, if it's called for. But I like the way in which he doesn't HAVE to wear it here.

Didn't Dane already come to the conclusion that he was carrying a fake Ebony Blade in Excalibur?

He had his suspicions. He didn't think that it was, and that was one of his reasons for leaving the group (The other main reason being The Juggernaut) to go and find out what was going on. It seems that in the intervening period the sword in his possession has started messing with him more. I wouldn't put the idea that the blade itself persuaded him to stop seeking answers out of mind.

Paul said he will be exploring all of the Black Knight questions posed so far. Remember last issue , while he was dying he mentioned Sean Dolon, that someone will come for the blade and a women? I hope he explains what happened to the "Avalon" sword and shield and why all of these Ebony Blades (His, BP"s, Bloodwraiths, and Proctors) are around.

I hope so, too. But I'm very encouraged by how much PC seems to be looking into things.

One question though, wasn't Strider a white horse?

You know, I'm not sure.

I just happen to disagree to me this doesn't even resemble the same character that has appeared in the past.

Specifically which period, Mightyness? Because there have been several very different versions of Dane. He is one of Marvel's most inconsistently written characters, IMO.

This Dane very much fits with the Dane who fought with Captain Britain in Otherworld, who has remained a firm friend with him over the years. But it also acknowledges other parts of his complex history. And for that reason alone I feel this to be a very faithful rendition, with certain new elements in play from his current situation.

Plus we have seen Dane Whitman affected by the Ebony Blade before and he didn't act out of character because of it. To me it is just the case of poor writing.

And in what way IS he acting out of character. He announces that he's quipping to cover up how much the blade is messing with him.

Yes we've seen the machinations of the Ebony Blade before - but this is almost certainly NOT the same blade. When Dane travelled into the past in New Excalibur the strength of the Ebony Blade in that time period was far stronger than the one he had in the present. He struggled to cope with its pull. There are so many reasons why the blade he currently possesses could be having a different level of effect on him.

Also what is the point of putting Captain Britain back in the classic Davis designed costume only to change to some really boring looking costume.

Because that is the most associated version of the costume - the Silver Age uniform almost. Sure Cap really hasn't been around long enough to have had Golden and Silver age incarnations, but his original helmetless costume was worn for a significant part of the character's history.

And I would totally disagree with this incarnation being boring. It holds the Union Flag as its focal point, and once again removes the Helmet, leaving more of the face on show. The only way I would improve upon it is to bring the Lion insignia back, as well.

Why not just use the version we saw in the previous Excalibur series.

Possibly because a lot of fans really hated the New Excalibur costume. Why exactly does Captain Britain NEED a utility belt? :biggrin:

IMO this is the worst Captain Britain costume yet, only the Britannic costume was worst.

Well, I think you're probably in the minority in believing it to be the worst, but yes - Britannic was TERRIBLE! Why they decided to totally drop the Union Flag was beyond me.

I would really have like to see something more in the vein of the Davis costume or the original Captain Britain costume.

My main issue with the davis costume is that when davis draws it it's great. He manages to get so much expression out of the way he draws Cap, largely through his own expressive style. But when he's not drawing it, and others are doing so, it's never anywhere near as effective. And that costume really doesn't fit the modern Marvel aesthetic. It's hard draw that costume in any photo real styling, without the mask making him look quite emotionless and stiff. I also feel that there is far too much association in people's minds between the Davis costume and a the bumbling, purely-funny, Brian of early Excalibur. It's time we showed a fuller picture of the character - and to to that I think this reinvention is a really good way of doing that.

[Guest_1001]

I just happen to disagree to me this doesn't even resemble the same character that has appeared in the past. Plus we have seen Dane Whitman affected by the Ebony Blade before and he didn't act out of character because of it. To me it is just the case of poor writing.

Even though it was explained in story? You've completely misunderstood, he's acting stand-offish to stop the Ebony Blade affecting him, not because it's affecting him. If you didn't know that even when it's written in the book, do you think you're a reliable judge of what is and isn't poor writing?

Also what is the point of putting Captain Britain back in the classic Davis designed costume only to change to some really boring looking costume. Why not just use the version we saw in the previous Excalibur series.

More iconic would be the best bet but the fact that Captain Britain's costume was even part of his story, unlike the New Excalibur one, is probable too. Considering how exciting and interesting the new costume is, it doesn't matter too much.

[metalgorgomon]

Do any of you guys know when the first TPB will be released?

I missed the first several issues and planning to start buying the book monthly but starting after the last issue being collected in the TPB.

[Comet Man]

QUOTE=Doc Goblin;7564839]I'm a huge Black Knight fan and like his look in MI:13. I wouldn't want to see him go back to the head-to-toe medieval knight appearance. I hate when characters look like they just stepped out of the wrong century. Dane's a knight of the 21st century, and I prefer him to look like it. As long as the basic helmet and jacket look remains, I wouldn't mind seeing further tweaks to his look though.[/QUOTE]

In the Heroes for Hire series of the late nineties, and Avengers afterwards, he wore a very modern looking costume that worked very well. It wasn't medieval looking at all, but if it was, so what, that was him. Could you picture Thor in a winged helmet and tee shilrt? God, please no. Black Knight had the Sword of Light, and the Shield of Night, and all of a sudden, now it's gone. I just hope we find out why soon.

I like the book, by the way, and I don't intend on not getting it. Just a few things bug me.

This was a great costume, dammit! You can't go wrong with a Pasqual Ferry design.
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/9/95/Daneknight.jpg/440px-Daneknight.jpg[

[The Sword Is Drawn]

In the Heroes for Hire series of the late nineties, and Avengers afterwards, he wore a very modern looking costume that worked very well. It wasn't medieval looking at all, but if it was, so what, that was him.

To me the Helmet, Sword ans A shield are all that's needed to tell me 'This is the Black Knight. The rest he can choose to alternate any way he wants, for any mission he wants. Chain-mail, plate-mail, leather armour, to civvies - each is more appropriate to different situations. I'd like to see him use a range. He doesn't need a fixed uniform. And frankly doing Government work he's going to have to adapt.

Could you picture Thor in a winged helmet and tee shilrt? God, please no.

That's very different. Thor is a very traditional Norse God. If he wanted to, well I doubt anybody would STOP him, of course.

This is not an attempt to produce a 'casual Dane'. Just an adaptable Dane.

Black Knight had the Sword of Light, and the Shield of Night, and all of a sudden, now it's gone. I just hope we find out why soon.

The Sword of Light and Shield of Night have been gone for 8 years. Seriously. He had the Ebony blade in 2000's Excalibur series, and in every appearance since. It's clear from his New Excalibur story that the Ebony Blade is the story Marvel want told now. This series is just following on from that.

There is no sudden. This has been around for many years now.

I like the book, by the way, and I don't intend on not getting it. Just a few things bug me.

This was a great costume, dammit! You can't go wrong with a Pasqual Ferry design.
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/9/95/Daneknight.jpg/440px-Daneknight.jpg[

For its time and situation it was spot on. But Dane's not in H4H any more. He's working as a government agent. He needs to be flexible. I don't think that everybody has grasped that, yet. When Dane was first shown entering battle springing of a motorbike everybody assumed that the bike was a replacement for Strider.

Was it? No.

I think we'll see Dane adapting quite bit on this book.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Double post.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Double Post.

[CaptainCanada]

Hopefully now that Psylocke is heading back to the X-books she'll be available for a guest spot here.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Hopefully now that Psylocke is heading back to the X-books she'll be available for a guest spot here.

Yes. Although I would have prefered that she came here instead ofcreturning to Uncanny.

[Frank]

I think this series sort of lack that edge that the Wisdom series had. You know that British attitude to say "screw you wankers!" in the face of danger. I don't know if it's because of the difference between Hairsine and Kirk but this stuff is very very light. I don't know why the shift in style Cornell has chosen here, like he wants to do more old school classic heroism. I think the new female character really emphasis that point, her personality is more akin to a fair maid coming from times of Knights, the sort of character you would never find in Wisdom. These guys were a bunch of MI 13 buddies of PW, cynical as Hell. Rough individuals yet endearing. I really miss that vibe and I thought that's what the new book was going to be like.

[HeckBoy]

I miss the Union Jack helmet. That, more than any other costume element, has always screamed Captain Britain to me (never really liked that Captain Marshall, "diamond-y" costume). Plus, the lack of gloves (or really, the bare hands) almost makes the look incomplete. Except for Superman, I really haven't gotten used to any other hero wearing full sleeves without either gloves or some sort of "bracelets" to complete the arm.

Also, who is Captain Midlands? Is he an old character? or relatively new?

[Guest_1001]

Also, who is Captain Midlands? Is he an old character? or relatively new?

Oh, you're in for a treat when he turns up. . . :biggrin:

Captain Midlands was one of the characters Cornell created -- along with John The Skrull and Tink -- for his Wisdom miniseries. He's similar in powers to Captain America, and is basically Captain America if he hadn't been frozen and had lived up until the present day (and is from Birmingham in England, so he sounds like Ozzy Osbourne). So, as you can guess, Captain Midlands is elderly, very old-fashioned and says "in my day" a lot, as elderly people often seem to do . . .

[HeckBoy]

Oh, you're in for a treat when he turns up. . . :biggrin:

Captain Midlands was one of the characters Cornell created -- along with John The Skrull and Tink -- for his Wisdom miniseries. He's similar in powers to Captain America, and is basically Captain America if he hadn't been frozen and had lived up until the present day (and is from Birmingham in England, so he sounds like Ozzy Osbourne). So, as you can guess, Captain Midlands is elderly, very old-fashioned and says "in my day" a lot, as elderly people often seem to do . . .Oh man, that sounds awesome! :biggrin: And when you mean elderly, do you mean he just has the mindset of someone who's lived 80 years (but is still physically young and in his prime)? or does he actually look like he's 80, but is somehow still at "peak" strength?

[Guest_1001]

Oh man, that sounds awesome! :biggrin: And when you mean elderly, do you mean he just has the mindset of someone who's lived 80 years (but is still physically young and in his prime)? or does he actually look like he's 80, but is somehow still at "peak" strength?

The second one. He's definitely an old man. :smile:

[HeckBoy]

The second one. He's definitely an old man. :smile:Oh man, that's even cooler then. :tongue:

[Comet Man]

To me the Helmet, Sword ans A shield are all that's needed to tell me 'This is the Black Knight. The rest he can choose to alternate any way he wants, for any mission he wants. Chain-mail, plate-mail, leather armour, to civvies - each is more appropriate to different situations. I'd like to see him use a range. He doesn't need a fixed uniform. And frankly doing Government work he's going to have to adapt.



That's very different. Thor is a very traditional Norse God. If he wanted to, well I doubt anybody would STOP him, of course.

This is not an attempt to produce a 'casual Dane'. Just an adaptable Dane.



The Sword of Light and Shield of Night have been gone for 8 years. Seriously. He had the Ebony blade in 2000's Excalibur series, and in every appearance since. It's clear from his New Excalibur story that the Ebony Blade is the story Marvel want told now. This series is just following on from that.

There is no sudden. This has been around for many years now.



For its time and situation it was spot on. But Dane's not in H4H any more. He's working as a government agent. He needs to be flexible. I don't think that everybody has grasped that, yet. When Dane was first shown entering battle springing of a motorbike everybody assumed that the bike was a replacement for Strider.

Was it? No.

I think we'll see Dane adapting quite bit on this book.

You're very eloquent, and you have style, Swordy, but I don't buy it.

First off, I left Marvel in 2002 when they cancelled my favorite book, The Defenders, with Erik Larsen, and I heard they were going to disassemble the Avengers. I dIdn't get New Excaliber, so I had no idea Dane didn't have the sword of light and shield of night anymore. How'd that happen? Why would he lose such a great concept? I checked out his character bio at Marvel.Com, and it doesn't even mention his stint with New Excalibur, so is Cornell continuing with non existent continuity?

All I know is that I think Dane was at his peak during the sword of light, shield of night times with H4H and Avengers. He could summon them magically with the word Avalon, along with Strider. The armor was lightweight and comfortable, but inpenetrable, and he could summon that too. It was a great idea! Why would it change? Hopefully Cornell will get into what happened.

Anyway, as far as not wearing a fixed costume because he's a govt. agent now - I say BULLOCKS! Isn't that what you Brits say?:wink:

Captain Britain, Union Jack, Spitfire, and Blade are superheroes working for the govt., and they always wear they're identifiable duds, so why can't the Black Knight?

Come on, Cornell, indulge my kid like heart and put him in costume. :smile:

[Loki]

You're very eloquent, and you have style, Swordy, but I don't buy it.

First off, I left Marvel in 2002 when they cancelled my favorite book, The Defenders, with Erik Larsen, and I heard they were going to disassemble the Avengers. I dIdn't get New Excaliber, so I had no idea Dane didn't have the sword of light and shield of night anymore. How'd that happen? Why would he lose such a great concept? I checked out his character bio at Marvel.Com, and it doesn't even mention his stint with New Excalibur, so is Cornell continuing with non existent continuity?
No, Cornell is continuing with where others left the characters - Dane had already ditched the sword of light and shield of night last time we saw him.


All I know is that I think Dane was at his peak during the sword of light, shield of night times with H4H and Avengers. He could summon them magically with the word Avalon, along with Strider. The armor was lightweight and comfortable, but inpenetrable, and he could summon that too. It was a great idea! Why would it change? Hopefully Cornell will get into what happened.

Anyway, as far as not wearing a fixed costume because he's a govt. agent now - I say BULLOCKS! Isn't that what you Brits say?:wink:
Not quite...

[The Sword Is Drawn]

First off, I left Marvel in 2002 when they cancelled my favorite book, The Defenders, with Erik Larsen, and I heard they were going to disassemble the Avengers. I dIdn't get New Excaliber, so I had no idea Dane didn't have the sword of light and shield of night anymore. How'd that happen? Why would he lose such a great concept?

As far as I am aware Dane's first appearance post H4H was 2000's Excalibur mini, written by Ben Raab. In that series he did not have the Sword of Light or Shield of Night. He appeared in armour and sporting a black sword. While he was by no means the focal character in this story (He, Meggan and Psylocke were kind of background characters to Brian - it was his story) there certainly was no explanation given as to what had changed or why.

I checked out his character bio at Marvel.Com, and it doesn't even mention his stint with New Excalibur, so is Cornell continuing with non existent continuity?

To be honest a lot of the Marvel.com profiles are missing information. It's what comes of creating an encyclopedia without paid researchers, and with wikipedia levels of text changes. These are not Official Handbooks.

Cornell is continuing where Frank Tieri left him - with Ebony Blade again. The story was a bit odd. Dane had returned to the family castle in England, where he had erected some kind of museum to his bloodline. Through a series of contrived events he and Excalibur are sent into the past at the request of The Lady to save Camelot - which has 'fallen too soon' in some kind of historical glitch. During his time there Dane and Sir Percy constantly bicker over who is going to hold on to the Ebony Blade. But in a moment alone with Merlyn the wizard explains to Dane that the blade is far more powerfully imbued with evil at this point in history than it is by the time he will receive it - and that he would not be able to handle it. Sir Percy can. It is his burden.

It is also explained that Sir Percy is by no means the first Black Knight. Dane glimpses visions of many black knights from much earlier periods of history in the flames in Merlyn's fire. The wizard tells him that there will always need to be a Black Knight - and the purpose of the Black knight is purely to be the custodian of the Ebony Blade - to stop its intense evil from falling into the hands of anybody else. Each Black Knight must shoulder this burden, whilst knowing that all the time they possess it it is slowly destroying their mind. And by the ed of their life, when the time comes that their replacement must inherit the sword, they will never want to give it away. It will be pried from their own dead hand.

Dane stuck around for a further arc with Brian trying to persuade him to join up with New Excalibur. Dane seems to be interested, but then the Juggernaut goes rogue, and gets involved with Cyttorak again. The team follow him to the temple of the Gem, and it is glimpsed to them just how many deaths the Juggernaut has caused. Pete Wisdom staked his own reputation on getting Cain Marco on the team, even had his British criminal record cleaned, and he insists that he is staying on the team. Dane disagrees with this and it is the final reason he needs not to stick around.

The other reason is that during this arc Dane kind of looks down at the Ebony blade and says something to the effect of 'This doesn't feel right, I don't think this is my sword'. Part of his reason for leaving was to work out whether it was - or not.

No reason has been given for abandoning his previous weapons, but Cornell is just following continuity. It was done stories and years ago now, and the Ebony Blade seems to be what the editors want, as well.

All I know is that I think Dane was at his peak during the sword of light, shield of night times with H4H and Avengers. He could summon them magically with the word Avalon, along with Strider. The armor was lightweight and comfortable, but impenetrable, and he could summon that too. It was a great idea! Why would it change? Hopefully Cornell will get into what happened.

I hope so. It is an inherited mess, sadly. But Dane is clearly going through a tough time as an individual, at the moment, also. The Avengers didn't want him, or Heroes for Hire, when relaunched. He's against the SHRA, and is clearly being tweaked harder by the Ebony Blade than ever before. His mind may have become slightly damaged since his last appearances.

Anyway, as far as not wearing a fixed costume because he's a govt. agent now - I say BULLOCKS! Isn't that what you Brits say?

No. It's "Bollocks". As in slang for testicles. As opposed to "Bullocks" which are a number of young bulls. Lol.

We'll have to see if he puts the armour back on, or not. I think we'll be more likely to see him back in combat leathers mind. Full armor is a bit conspicuous for black ops. And he's a good enough swordsman that he doesn't need it, anyway.

Captain Britain, Union Jack, Spitfire, and Blade are superheroes working for the govt., and they always wear they're identifiable duds, so why can't the Black Knight?

Well, Blade is wearing leathers rather than a costume. Both Spitfire and Cap do have costumes, but they are lightweight. And let's be honest Jacquie can run fast enough that you wont see her coming, anyway...

[Comet Man]

As far as I am aware Dane's first appearance post H4H was 2000's Excalibur mini, written by Ben Raab. In that series he did not have the Sword of Light or Shield of Night. He appeared in armour and sporting a black sword. While he was by no means the focal character in this story (He, Meggan and Psylocke were kind of background characters to Brian - it was his story) there certainly was no explanation given as to what had changed or why.



To be honest a lot of the Marvel.com profiles are missing information. It's what comes of creating an encyclopedia without paid researchers, and with wikipedia levels of text changes. These are not Official Handbooks.

Cornell is continuing where Frank Tieri left him - with Ebony Blade again. The story was a bit odd. Dane had returned to the family castle in England, where he had erected some kind of museum to his bloodline. Through a series of contrived events he and Excalibur are sent into the past at the request of The Lady to save Camelot - which has 'fallen too soon' in some kind of historical glitch. During his time there Dane and Sir Percy constantly bicker over who is going to hold on to the Ebony Blade. But in a moment alone with Merlyn the wizard explains to Dane that the blade is far more powerfully imbued with evil at this point in history than it is by the time he will receive it - and that he would not be able to handle it. Sir Percy can. It is his burden.

It is also explained that Sir Percy is by no means the first Black Knight. Dane glimpses visions of many black knights from much earlier periods of history in the flames in Merlyn's fire. The wizard tells him that there will always need to be a Black Knight - and the purpose of the Black knight is purely to be the custodian of the Ebony Blade - to stop its intense evil from falling into the hands of anybody else. Each Black Knight must shoulder this burden, whilst knowing that all the time they possess it it is slowly destroying their mind. And by the ed of their life, when the time comes that their replacement must inherit the sword, they will never want to give it away. It will be pried from their own dead hand.

Dane stuck around for a further arc with Brian trying to persuade him to join up with New Excalibur. Dane seems to be interested, but then the Juggernaut goes rogue, and gets involved with Cyttorak again. The team follow him to the temple of the Gem, and it is glimpsed to them just how many deaths the Juggernaut has caused. Pete Wisdom staked his own reputation on getting Cain Marco on the team, even had his British criminal record cleaned, and he insists that he is staying on the team. Dane disagrees with this and it is the final reason he needs not to stick around.

The other reason is that during this arc Dane kind of looks down at the Ebony blade and says something to the effect of 'This doesn't feel right, I don't think this is my sword'. Part of his reason for leaving was to work out whether it was - or not.

No reason has been given for abandoning his previous weapons, but Cornell is just following continuity. It was done stories and years ago now, and the Ebony Blade seems to be what the editors want, as well.



I hope so. It is an inherited mess, sadly. But Dane is clearly going through a tough time as an individual, at the moment, also. The Avengers didn't want him, or Heroes for Hire, when relaunched. He's against the SHRA, and is clearly being tweaked harder by the Ebony Blade than ever before. His mind may have become slightly damaged since his last appearances.



No. It's "Bollocks". As in slang for testicles. As opposed to "Bullocks" which are a number of young bulls. Lol.

We'll have to see if he puts the armour back on, or not. I think we'll be more likely to see him back in combat leathers mind. Full armor is a bit conspicuous for black ops. And he's a good enough swordsman that he doesn't need it, anyway.



Well, Blade is wearing leathers rather than a costume. Both Spitfire and Cap do have costumes, but they are lightweight. And let's be honest Jacquie can run fast enough that you wont see her coming, anyway...

Wow, loads of great info there I didn't know about!

So it's really not Cornell's fault that he's following unexplained continuity. Hopefully he'll do the Knight, right. I'm along for the ride. Looking forward to seeing Dane in the leathers. Hopefully it'll be his best look yet.

Thanks, Swordy, for taking the time to explain everything to me.

[jarrod]

Yes. Although I would have prefered that she came here instead ofcreturning to Uncanny.
Look on the bright side... maybe we can still get SAGE? :P


And I HOPE everyone sent in their X-POS questions for Mr. Cornell... I did!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Look on the bright side... maybe we can still get SAGE? :P

How. dare. you. :mad: :biggrin:

Mind you, I think that Cornell could have done a decent job woth Sage.