So a question.. (GA/BC Related)

[K-DoG7p7]

I haven't seen any threads about GA/BC this week.. wasn't issue 12 supposed to be out this week?

If it indeed was.. then...

How ruined is Shado now? beyond help*? in need of help**? or was it just YET! another cheap Cliffhanger ploy?

*remember that Chuck can't help Shado anymore..
** Grell is back writing for DC...... :D

[Jared H.]

She didn't do it out of malice. She did it to save her son's life.

God, I need to stop reading this. Just because my wife wants me to buy it for her doesn't mean I have to read it.

[K-DoG7p7]

Ohh come on!
Just how bad of a mother is she.. she can like kill the entire Yakuza.. but cant even keep her son safe for more then a week at a time..
COME ON!!!!!

Shado is for crying out loud more then just her son!.. if you get what i'm saying..

[thehod]

Right, I'm going to cop to it and say I've enjoyed every issue of GA/BC so far. I've found them to be reasonably good fun.

I will admit that I didn't read the last series of Green Arrow, but I did devour all of the Mike Grell series, and I've only got the first 20 odd issues of Birds of Prey, so my understanding of how the characters have been portrayed in recent continuity may be a little lacking, but they seem fairly reasonably developed and presented to me. Its hardly Shakespeare I'm reading here, but as long as they are portrayed consistantly between issues, thats good enough for me. The plot has been a rather silly romp, but that's pretty much how I like my superhero comics.

I'm really not understanding the level of hatred for this title, as I've seen far, far, far, worse in my time, and those titles I dropped like a hot rock and promptly forgot about.

Am I missing something about this title, or what?

[Astonishing X-Fan]

It's been a good series, IMO. I also have liked it since the relaunch.

For fuller details: Shado's son was very ill, beyond normal medical help. Sivana said he would cure him if she killed Green Arrow. Shado took the guise of Ras because she was ashamed of what she was doing and didn't want anyone to know it was her. In the end she joins GA, BC, Speedy, and a group of heroes to storm Sivana's lair and get her son and Connor back, which they succeed in doing.

[LewisH]

is this is a win or a loss for Sivana?

On the minus said, GA, Connor, and Shado's son all alive and well and another lab blown to hell.

On the plus side, lot's of fresh DNA samples for Sivana to use in evil experiments, Shado's kid aged by 9 years unnaturally, Sivana still at large with some pretty good Mad Scientist rep points.

I'd call it a win for him. Not quite as big as when he betrayed Psimon, Gizmo and the rest of his villain team or when he brain wiped Sydney but a minor victory.
Rebuilding secret lairs is just the price of doing business and there's a good market for hero DNA.

[K-DoG7p7]

i
On the plus side, lot's of fresh DNA samples for Sivana to use in evil experiments, Shado's kid aged by 9 years unnaturally, Sivana still at large with some pretty good Mad Scientist rep points.
.

...... WHAT? don't tell me he is suddenly a teenager?
This gets more and more retarded EVERY SINGLE MONTH!

[thehod]

...... WHAT? don't tell me he is suddenly a teenager?
This gets more and more retarded EVERY SINGLE MONTH!

If you're not reading the title, and I have to ask, why the hell are you bothered?

[K-DoG7p7]

If you're not reading the title, and I have to ask, why the hell are you bothered?

I am..... its just i don't get my comics until tomorrow at the earliest..
and the only reason i still buy it is because of the light at the end... (of the year)

A NEW WRITER!!! no matter how bad.. he will be better then Winick!

[thehod]

I am..... its just i don't get my comics until tomorrow at the earliest..
and the only reason i still buy it is because of the light at the end... (of the year)

A NEW WRITER!!! no matter how bad.. he will be better then Winick!

See, this is a mentality I'll never understand.

If you hate it, why in Gods name are you still buying it? Drop the title until a new writer comes on board.

99 times out of 100 the new writer barely references the previous writers stuff, and even if they do, its usually explained to a level that anyone with half a brain could understand.

If you're that desperate to be parted from your money you can always send it my way.


And believe you me, there are plently of worse writers than Winick out there. Plently.

[K-DoG7p7]

Because its a pain in the but to cancel a title just for a few months..
its easy for you who gow down to a LCS .. its harder for us Mailorder people

Also.. there is that whole thing about dropping a series that has 4 of your favorite characters in it... (should just be 2.. and the other twou running around another series starring the youngest one.......ehhem)

[LewisH]

I expect Selena's baby to get the aging treatment. The only baby I remember being handled pretty well was Franklin Richards. He stayed a baby for a good long time, and only got used as a plot device now and then for his first decade or so of fictional existence. After that he got messed around a bit but at least at the moment he is in a pretty good place. (Unless Millar really is going to get away with killing Susan Richards.)

[K-DoG7p7]

NO CHILD SHOULD BE ARTEFICIALLY AGED... not even in COMICS!
its just 100% BAD STORY TELLING! if you cant write a child as a child.. then DON'T have the kid in the story..


ITS JUST IDIOTIC!!!
MAN! I'm glad Tony got Sin out of the way before Judd could get his taint on her..

[Corrina]

I have figured out why Winick's writing drives me absolutely up the wall.

He writes dumb characters. Not just silly characters but stupid, dumb characters. Additionally, the plot is dumb, too.

And, from what I've seen from flipping through, he's writing this as a romp but he's writing it at the level of the Three Stooges-type romp rather than, say, a Billy Wilder/Bringing Up Baby kind of romp. No sophistication, just stupid silliness.

And, in my opinion, he's not even doing that well. About every tenth line of dialogue is funny while the others are just painful. So it's like the Three Stooges with Shemp or something.

It's like BC and GA starring in a really bad Tom & Jerry style cartoon.

[K-DoG7p7]

I have figured out why Winick's writing drives me absolutely up the wall.

He writes dumb characters. Not just silly characters but stupid, dumb characters. Additionally, the plot is dumb, too.

And, from what I've seen from flipping through, he's writing this as a romp but he's writing it at the level of the Three Stooges-type romp rather than, say, a Billy Wilder/Bringing Up Baby kind of romp. No sophistication, just stupid silliness.

And, in my opinion, he's not even doing that well. About every tenth line of dialogue is funny while the others are just painful. So it's like the Three Stooges with Shemp or something.

It's like BC and GA starring in a really bad Tom & Jerry style cartoon.

Also with half the series so far focusing on the supporting characters..
JUST GIVE MIA HER OWN SERIES ALREADY!

[Chiroptera]

Still reading it, still loving it. That's all I have to say. :)

[K-DoG7p7]

Mister DIIIIIIIXON! you know Shado and the kid better then most.... well.. better then everyone besides Master Grell..

care to say a few words....

Ohh i know your watching!

[AaronJ]

It's a fun, crazy, whacky series. Sure, it's Winick, so it sort of exists in the Winick-verse. But I can't help but enjoy it.

And the best part? It's a Green Arrow Family story. Everyone has a chance to shine.

[Corrina]

[QUOTE=diana_fan;7540771
It's a Green Arrow Family story. Everyone has a chance to shine.[/QUOTE]

And there's my issue in a nutshell.

"it's a Green Arrow Family story."

But the title says "Green Arrow/Black Canary." So, by definition, BC doesn't have as much chance to shine.

[K-DoG7p7]

And there's my issue in a nutshell.

"it's a Green Arrow Family story."

But the title says "Green Arrow/Black Canary." So, by definition, BC doesn't have as much chance to shine.

would have helped alot if Mia got her own series...

[K-DoG7p7]

PS!

GA/BC is now below 30.000 for the first time since the 90's (I do not have any figures.. maybe Chuck can inform us if he knows)

Ohh ans seems like BOP is settling down.. at around 22-21K



And regarding that bet.. i meant to say "In a few months" uhhmm.. yes! in a few months!

[AaronJ]

And there's my issue in a nutshell.

"it's a Green Arrow Family story."

But the title says "Green Arrow/Black Canary." So, by definition, BC doesn't have as much chance to shine.

OK, but everyone gets a chance. That's what is important to me.

Ollie? Check.

Dinah? Check.

Connor? Check.

Mia? Check.

Even freaking Dodger, and we don't know a damn thing about him. I just love the fact that everyone is in the story, everyone is in the business. It's fun.

[Corrina]

It's fun if you like reading about stupid people.

But then I don't even like the Three Stooges much, even without Shemp.

[AaronJ]

It's fun if you like reading about stupid people.

But then I don't even like the Three Stooges much, even without Shemp.

Fair enough.

I'm not going to argue this. I enjoy it. You don't.

[DavidAllred]

Fair enough.

I'm not going to argue this. I enjoy it. You don't.

I've definately enjoyed this volume more than volume II, the last two issues withstanding.

[Sarah Beach]

Look, Ollie and Dinah are ON THE PAGE.... that doesn't mean they are much IN THE STORY.

And when you have Ollie of all people realizing that the villain hinted that Connor and Shado's son Robert were masked among the attackers before BATMAN does -- please, this is stupid writing, because it is untrue to the characters!

Shado spends the book weeping and weeping and weeping and weeping. Lady Proactive herself, sitting in a corner weeping. And if she knew that Robert had leukemia, why go to Sivana in the first place? Why not go first to Ollie and Connor, since the two of them were the most likely matches for bone donors! Why is Sivana's help the first and last resort for her?

If you think this is good writing..... *sigh*

Look... I signed up for this book for an action/adventure title, not Tweedledee and Tweedledum Do Superheroics. A "funny book" is NOT what this was sold as. And in point of fact, Ollie hardly ever draws his bow anymore, and when was the last time Dinah used the Canary Cry? (In spite of the image on the cover!)

For those of you who are avid Mia fans... I hope you get your wish, because then she'll stop taking up space from the characters who are supposed to be the LEADS here. I don't think such a book would be a success, but at least you'd get your wish, and I could have Green Arrow/Black Canary back, instead of the "Sidekick Spotlight Hour".

[DavidAllred]

Shado spends the book weeping and weeping and weeping and weeping. Lady Proactive herself, sitting in a corner weeping. And if she knew that Robert had leukemia, why go to Sivana in the first place? Why not go first to Ollie and Connor, since the two of them were the most likely matches for bone donors! Why is Sivana's help the first and last resort for her?


The biggest problem with this month's addition for me was that a) Shado would never dishonor herself like this, and b) mothers don't view killing their sons' fathers as akin to "saving" them.

At this point I can take the dues ex machina, because I'm used to it. Doesn't make it good, but no where near as bad as a plot point for one of Green Arrow's most legendary characters doing something so stupid as to agreeing to kill her son's father to make her angst of the natural order of things just up and go away.

[d newton]

JUST GIVE MIA HER OWN SERIES ALREADY!
SPEEDIES - The Adventures of Roy & Mia! :biggrin:

[joe27]

I can understand the gripes about Winnick's writing, but I've still really enjoyed this series.

It reminds me of some 80's cartoon I would have been obsessed with, pre-B:TAS when cartoons started taking themselves way too seriously. I see that as a good thing, other people obviously don't.

That being said, I am interested to see what the new writer will do with this title.

[K-DoG7p7]

There are alot of BAD stroeis and stuff that i do understand how people could like..
but this.. its simply so idiotic that i find it hard to belive anyone with half a brain can like..

[NickThompson]

I am..... its just i don't get my comics until tomorrow at the earliest..
and the only reason i still buy it is because of the light at the end... (of the year)

A NEW WRITER!!! no matter how bad.. he will be better then Winick!
The new writer wrote a book about Helen Keller getting superpowers caleld Helen Killer. I missed that, but I'll definately give his run a shot :smile:





As for people buying the book who don't like it, I get the whole sports team mentality where you want to follow the things you like no matter what. But by buying the book you are telling them that you are happy with how things are. You can't win really.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I have figured out why Winick's writing drives me absolutely up the wall.

He writes dumb characters. Not just silly characters but stupid, dumb characters. Additionally, the plot is dumb, too.

And, from what I've seen from flipping through, he's writing this as a romp but he's writing it at the level of the Three Stooges-type romp rather than, say, a Billy Wilder/Bringing Up Baby kind of romp. No sophistication, just stupid silliness.

And, in my opinion, he's not even doing that well. About every tenth line of dialogue is funny while the others are just painful. So it's like the Three Stooges with Shemp or something.

It's like BC and GA starring in a really bad Tom & Jerry style cartoon.

From what I've heard of his TITANS work it seems Winick knows no other gear to write in. Where as a master like Peter David can switch gears with books like the serious Aquaman and Incredible Hulk to the silly Young Justice and Captain Marvel.... Winick can't. He's stuck on stupied. He can try but his work shows he can't stop himself doing stupied silly plots.

I'd say Didio should fire him... but thats his "Boy" and thats not gonna happen.