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ASM78
09-08-2008, 11:30 AM
I recently bought this entire run on Ebay (1-50) and I have to say it is one of the best 4 year runs I have ever read. With arcs light Deathstroke, Trigon and the Judas storyline it was highly enjoyable. George Perez was at the peak of his game (although Romeo Tanghal inks may have played a large role).
What did you guys think of this..I think if many of you still remember it then it had to be good:smile:

DDM
09-08-2008, 12:36 PM
You also need to buy the second series The New Teen Titans #1-5 (1984 series) also by Marv Wolfman & George Perez; this story resolves the Trigon storyline & changes Raven.

You will also need to buy Crisis On Infinite Earths #1-12 also by Marv Wolfman & George Perez; this series has literally every character in the DC Universe at the time to tell a really wonderfully dense story...

Chemical King
09-08-2008, 12:36 PM
Certainly a great run, with Perez finally having established his style (if not his love for detail which increased over the last two decades) and Wolfman on a creative high, this was one for the (comic book) history books.

The mixture of new and old characters was splendid. I consider Starfire one of the best characters out there in the DCU and hate most of what they did to her since the abysmal New Titans #100 (way back in the middle of the 90s). I was never a big fan of Raven but her father Trigon was always good for a big story (no longer valid today - how big can a story be when an evil anti-christ character gets ressurrected for the fifth time?)

I alsways loved the smaller stories like Cyborg / Sarah Simms and the handicapped children, Donna Troys career as a photographer and all this. It really was a wonderful ride with a great second run until after "Total Chaos" when things really went downhill rapidly. But Judas Contract, Robins coming of age, Starfires journey, Kid Flash quitting, this all felt so natural it's still a great read 25 years later (well, for me it's just 13 years later I read it first around 94/95)...

But isn't "Classic Teen Titans" the version with Speedy and Aqualad? Isn't the Wolfman Perez run "Modern age Titans" or something like that? :biggrin:

Chemical King
09-08-2008, 12:38 PM
You also need to buy the second series The New Teen Titans #1-5 (1984 series) also by Marv Wolfman & George Perez; this story resolves the Trigon storyline & changes Raven.
.

And the first two issues I guess are even INKED by Perez, which greatly improves on the final performance... yes that story is great. And the whole v.2 run up til #90 has lots of funny and great moments as well.

ASM78
09-08-2008, 12:52 PM
Yeah, I guess depending on your age, the "classic Titans" would be that first run:)
You are right about the little stories mixed in with the "events". I think that is why I found them so enjoyable. I suggest anyone who has not read these go pick them up, they are just fun, and it was at a time where every story did not need to be dark or trying to one up the previous writer. Justgeat stuff :biggrin:

Kelson
09-08-2008, 06:10 PM
I'd say everything from the start of the Wolfman/Perez run through the second Titans of Myth storyline (around #12 or so of volume 2, right before Crisis on Infinite Earths) is gold. From that point through #70 in the second series is also still pretty good, but from "Titans Hunt" onward, it kind of falls apart.

Blueferret
09-08-2008, 10:06 PM
Certainly a great run, with Perez finally having established his style (if not his love for detail which increased over the last two decades) and Wolfman on a creative high, this was one for the (comic book) history books.

The mixture of new and old characters was splendid. I consider Starfire one of the best characters out there in the DCU and hate most of what they did to her since the abysmal New Titans #100 (way back in the middle of the 90s). I was never a big fan of Raven but her father Trigon was always good for a big story (no longer valid today - how big can a story be when an evil anti-christ character gets ressurrected for the fifth time?)

I alsways loved the smaller stories like Cyborg / Sarah Simms and the handicapped children, Donna Troys career as a photographer and all this. It really was a wonderful ride with a great second run until after "Total Chaos" when things really went downhill rapidly. But Judas Contract, Robins coming of age, Starfires journey, Kid Flash quitting, this all felt so natural it's still a great read 25 years later (well, for me it's just 13 years later I read it first around 94/95)...

But isn't "Classic Teen Titans" the version with Speedy and Aqualad? Isn't the Wolfman Perez run "Modern age Titans" or something like that? :biggrin:

Saying things went downhill rapidly is an understatement. Total Chaos was a complete disaster. They tried to do this big crossover and they couldn't even get the damn costumes the same issue after issue. Aqualad shows up in an all-new costume on the last page of one issue and then the next one he's back to his original one. The last 40 issues New Titans were really hard to read, plus Jaskaa's art really didn't work for me.

COMIC GEEK
09-09-2008, 02:20 AM
no one will be able to ever "touch" that run, geoff came close.. but not close enough.

I have loads of extras of those other issues if you need more btw

p/me me or look at my list

shaxper
09-09-2008, 02:29 AM
I recently bought this entire run on Ebay (1-50) and I have to say it is one of the best 4 year runs I have ever read. With arcs light Deathstroke, Trigon and the Judas storyline it was highly enjoyable. George Perez was at the peak of his game (although Romeo Tanghal inks may have played a large role).
What did you guys think of this..I think if many of you still remember it then it had to be good:smile:

One of my favorite runs in all of comic book history, most importantly because Wolfman and Perez made that team feel like a family. Not the kind of family you're assigned to by blood, but rather the kind of caring community we all wish we could have grown up in. No one simply "joined the team." They were invited into the hearts of the other members, which is exactly why Terra's was such a moving chapter in their saga.

I've spent a lot of time debating about where the quality of work ended on that run, and I've absolutely decided that the ideal stopping point is volume 2 #6. It's a great ending point for the series as it wraps up the Trigon saga and finally sees the Titans relatively happy and suitably recognized for their efforts. Starting with #7, the series starts introducing ludicrous characters and plot lines, seemingly without any real sense of direction. It's been said that Wolfman lost his way once Perez left, and I reluctantly agree with that statement. Volume 2 #1-5 was the last storyline they plotted together, and #6 is the epilogue to that storyline.

Incidentally, even though vol. 2 and the tail end of vol. 1 were published concurrently, vol. 1 is still good right up the point where it starts reprinting old material (#59) because those stories were plotted prior to Wolfman and Perez plotting vol. 2.

marshal99
09-09-2008, 02:48 AM
The Wolfman/Perez era will never be top in teen titan history. It is a time that will never be duplicated as the characters in that era have since grown up and are vastly different now.
They were the only DC title to come close to the classic clairemont x-men title in the sales chart of that time.

Calybos
09-09-2008, 05:03 AM
It very much set the standard for all future Titans stories, and to a large degree for all team comics since then.

As noted, the "family" feel was something special; the mix of large and small stories was excellent and yet still easy to get into. And the artwork, of course, is why so many other scribblers could do worse than simply try to spend their lives copying Perez's style.

ASM78
09-09-2008, 05:56 AM
Many of you have hit the nail on the head with the whole "family" feel. That is exactly the way I felt while reading this run. I actually cared about these characters. Just great stuff

mightyness
09-09-2008, 07:54 AM
I don't think anyone has been able to really capture the feel of this series like Wolfman and Perez. These two are exceptional talents and really understood how to weave together an action packed comic that had all of the emotional elements that really made you love these characters. Judd Winick's work doesn't hold a candle to Wolfman. This current Titans series is utter trash IMO. The Teen Titans reboot with Johns and Mckone was admirable but nothing compared to what George Perez and Marv Wolfman accomplished with these characters. It feels like almost every creator since Wolfman and Perez have been trying to recapture that magic but fall far short.

Chemical King
09-09-2008, 08:16 AM
Saying things went downhill rapidly is an understatement. Total Chaos was a complete disaster. They tried to do this big crossover and they couldn't even get the damn costumes the same issue after issue. Aqualad shows up in an all-new costume on the last page of one issue and then the next one he's back to his original one. The last 40 issues New Titans were really hard to read, plus Jaskaa's art really didn't work for me.

Absolutely on the same wavelength with you on Jaaska. He totally killed the book with his "art". It was terrible to watch - until today, I consider him one of the worst artists ever to be featured on a major comic book.

As for Total Chaos, I recently reread the whole run and you're totally right. While Titans Hunt was kind of cool, though different (featuring mostly supporting cast while the main team was captured or brainwashed), they stroke the death bell with Total Chaos, which gave honor to its title... I liked the "Titans Sell-Out Special" afterwards, but the rest was agony. Mostly not Wolfmans fault, by the way, as he told: the editors had totally taken over...

Chemical King
09-09-2008, 08:23 AM
I don't think anyone has been able to really capture the feel of this series like Wolfman and Perez. These two are exceptional talents and really understood how to weave together an action packed comic that had all of the emotional elements that really made you love these characters. Judd Winick's work doesn't hold a candle to Wolfman. This current Titans series is utter trash IMO. The Teen Titans reboot with Johns and Mckone was admirable but nothing compared to what George Perez and Marv Wolfman accomplished with these characters. It feels like almost every creator since Wolfman and Perez have been trying to recapture that magic but fall far short.

Absolutely right. Funnily enough, the only "new" Teen titans book in the last decade which came close to that family feeling was Dan Jurgens' ill-fated Teen Titans run which only went for 25 issues. It was in great parts inked by Perez, so the art was very good. This was the only series which featured totally new characters (Argent, Joto, Risk, Prysm). Recently rereading it, I was astonished how good it actually was (even the annual was good). But it had no chance with the Titans fans cause they wanted the old team back. Ironically, in my eyes neither Devin Graysons nor Johns' restart, and especially not Winnicks newest attemt could give me this feeling. Those were just some loose conglomerates of heroes (like Damage or Superboy) who never provided that family feeling...

Shellhead
09-09-2008, 08:26 AM
I've spent a lot of time debating about where the quality of work ended on that run, and I've absolutely decided that the ideal stopping point is volume 2 #6. It's a great ending point for the series as it wraps up the Trigon saga and finally sees the Titans relatively happy and suitably recognized for their efforts. Starting with #7, the series starts introducing ludicrous characters and plot lines, seemingly without any real sense of direction. It's been said that Wolfman lost his way once Perez left, and I reluctantly agree with that statement. Volume 2 #1-5 was the last storyline they plotted together, and #6 is the epilogue to that storyline.


I really enjoyed the Wolfman/Perez run on Teen Titans back in the day, and also enjoyed their excellent and underrated earlier collaboration on Fantastic Four. But when I re-read my Teen Titans stack a couple of years ago, it was a little disappointing. The characters were more shallow and annoying than what I had remembered, especially Logan, whose dialogue was almost as bad as fingernails on a chalkboard. Still, it was a pretty good read, up until... yeah, Volume #2, issue #6.

Somehow I kept reading until volume #2, issue #30, and then bailed. It wasn't even slightly enjoyable anymore, and somehow Wolfman was even writing his own creations out of character, beyond recognition. The low point was #19, when Donna beat up Dick, just because she was mad. I came back for issue #38, for the disappointing crossover with Infinity, Inc. And then the cover for #39 was so attractive that I bought it anyway, and was surprised to find that I enjoyed the issue.

And from issue #39 until partway through the Titans Hunt, I enjoyed Teen Titans again. I can definitely understand why some readers hated Danny Chase with a passion, but I personally found him no more annoying than Logan. I especially enjoyed the one-off in issue #40 with the three villains trying to steal the same item, and the two-parter featuring the Royal Flush Gang. Sure, the Troia costume was a trainwreck, but otherwise it was a decent run.

The Titans Hunt started out with potential, and I liked the new line-up that developed. But somewhere along the line, the plot twists went from okay to tragically stupid. After that I've never really been satisfied with Teen Titans.

titanfan
09-09-2008, 09:17 AM
They tried to do this big crossover and they couldn't even get the damn costumes the same issue after issue. Aqualad shows up in an all-new costume on the last page of one issue and then the next one he's back to his original one.

Aqualad was supposed to have an intentionally morphing costume if I remember right, but none of the readers got it and then they just ended up switching back to his original one I think....

Armadillo
09-10-2008, 11:16 AM
I really want to read Vol. 1; I read the sneak peek and a lot of info and reviews about the series that really make me want reading it.
But the Hardcover are too damn expensive :frown:
I guess I'll just have to hope that it will publish as a softcover or something someday.

MartinRedmond
09-10-2008, 11:21 AM
George Perez was at the peak of his game (although Romeo Tanghal inks may have played a large role).

I just got that entire run as well. I haven't reread it all yet.

I agree that Romeo deserves a part of the credit. His finishes kept Perez's work simple and accessible. I have a hard time enjoying other works by Perez because there's so much over rendering on top of all the detail. For example, his Avengers with Kurt Busiek. Tanghal simply gave it some nice line weights and no hatching.

MartinRedmond
09-10-2008, 11:26 AM
I really want to read Vol. 1; I read the sneak peek and a lot of info and reviews about the series that really make me want reading it.
But the Hardcover are too damn expensive :frown:
I guess I'll just have to hope that it will publish as a softcover or something someday.

Buy the back issues, it will probably cost you about 50$ and they will look better than the reprints. The gloss archives are horrid.

Armadillo
09-10-2008, 11:33 AM
Buy the back issues, it will probably cost you about 50$ and they will look better than the reprints. The gloss archives are horrid.

But I live in israel where there only two comic shop in the whole country (and they're both kinda small) so I dont believe there will be back issue, and I dont buy on the internet.
:frown:

Darrell D.
09-10-2008, 06:00 PM
I really enjoyed the Wolfman/Perez run on Teen Titans back in the day, and also enjoyed their excellent and underrated earlier collaboration on Fantastic Four.
I don't think Wolfman and Perez ever worked on FF at the same time. I know that Wolfman had a run on the title with Keith Pollard, and Perez with Roy Thomas, I think.

But when I re-read my Teen Titans stack a couple of years ago, it was a little disappointing. The characters were more shallow and annoying than what I had remembered, especially Logan, whose dialogue was almost as bad as fingernails on a chalkboard. Still, it was a pretty good read, up until... yeah, Volume #2, issue #6.
I remember as a kid, being so damn excited every time a new issue came out. It was at point I started really paying attention to who was writing/drawing the things, and I started really paying attention to covers. If it was a Perez cover, I was buying it.


Somehow I kept reading until volume #2, issue #30, and then bailed. It wasn't even slightly enjoyable anymore, and somehow Wolfman was even writing his own creations out of character, beyond recognition. The low point was #19, when Donna beat up Dick, just because she was mad. I came back for issue #38, for the disappointing crossover with Infinity, Inc. And then the cover for #39 was so attractive that I bought it anyway, and was surprised to find that I enjoyed the issue.

And from issue #39 until partway through the Titans Hunt, I enjoyed Teen Titans again. I can definitely understand why some readers hated Danny Chase with a passion, but I personally found him no more annoying than Logan. I especially enjoyed the one-off in issue #40 with the three villains trying to steal the same item, and the two-parter featuring the Royal Flush Gang. Sure, the Troia costume was a trainwreck, but otherwise it was a decent run.

The Titans Hunt started out with potential, and I liked the new line-up that developed. But somewhere along the line, the plot twists went from okay to tragically stupid. After that I've never really been satisfied with Teen Titans.

It was hard to drop Titans; I got through the Brother Blood storyline and quit cold turkey. The writing had gotten so bad, and by that point I was only in it for Eduardo Barreto's art. I think I eventually came back for a few issues after Tom Grummett took over art chores, and left again, despite the nice John Buscema style art. The writing just didn't move me. It just seemed bad and cliched.

Shellhead
09-11-2008, 07:43 AM
I don't think Wolfman and Perez ever worked on FF at the same time. I know that Wolfman had a run on the title with Keith Pollard, and Perez with Roy Thomas, I think.


You're right. I went back and checked, and the FF issues that I thought were written by Wolfman were actually written by Roy Thomas, then later Len Wein. Then Wolfman takes over right after Wein leaves. Strangely, Wolfman did write an issue during Wein's run, but that specific issue was not drawn by Perez. (Issue #190: Wolfman/Sal Buscema.)