Is Wonder Woman an adult virgin?

[Lester C.]

And if so is she mentally ill for it? And yes I have another 30 minutes to kill in the computer lab before class start. And if you are wondering the real topic here is adult virgins as I was reading about it before my brain got all mushy from being up all night and day.

[Cam63]

WW2 Steve Trevor should hand in his manhood if he didn't at least try that " wooing " thing I've heard about.

[Lester C.]

WW2 Steve Trevor should hand in his manhood if he didn't at least try that " wooing " thing I've heard about.

Who? I only read Rucka's complete run of the book so I have no idea what that is. I will google it tonight. From my perspective the only men that have tried to woo Diana was Aquaman and Batman for like two JLA issues.

[Spiffy]

Which version of Wonder Woman are we talking about? The current one? The one from two or three years ago? The pre-Crisis one? The one from the late 60s? The one from the 1940s?

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

It's been debated, sometimes very hotly. John Byrne has gone on record as stating he believes Diana is a virgin. Others tend to... doubt it.

My feeling, she probably hasn't had sex with a male yet. If she did, I'd like to think it'd be important enough to her for us to be at least aware of the fellow...

[Cam63]

I like the stories that had her and Bats as a couple.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Who? I only read Rucka's complete run of the book so I have no idea what that is. I will google it tonight. From my perspective the only men that have tried to woo Diana was Aquaman and Batman for like two JLA issues.

Mercy. It's not your fault. But for all intents and purposes Steve Trevor was Wondy's Lois Lane for 40 years and was with her in the television show.

Man I feel so damn OLD now. :eek:

[DrewEdwards]

I like the stories that had her and Bats as a couple.

I do too. If only because it's something different from typical pairing with Superman.

[Cam63]

It's been debated, sometimes very hotly. John Byrne has gone on record as stating he believes Diana is a virgin. Others tend to... doubt it.

My feeling, she probably hasn't had sex with a male yet. If she did, I'd like to think it'd be important enough to her for us to be at least aware of the fellow...

Well, she did once live pretty close to Lesbos.

[Cam63]

I do too. If only because it's something different from typical pairing with Superman.

That's what the writers thought too.

Instead of pairing up with DC's " Mr. Wonderful ", she'd go for " Mr. Dark and Creepy " instead.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Well, she did once live pretty close to Lesbos.

I understand why DC has never came out and just said it but I just can't even remotely get how anyone can't know that WW has had lesbian sex. Unless they think the whole island is celibate. And I have zero doubt the Golden Age Wondy did. I mean he had her say Suffering Sappho for crying out loud! She spanked bad girls and threatened to "love" them to goodness.

Now...has she had sex with a male in various incarnations? Who knows. But it wouldn't be because she's a prude.

[DrewEdwards]

That's what the writers thought too.

Instead of pairing up with DC's " Mr. Wonderful ", she'd go for " Mr. Dark and Creepy " instead.

Oddly, in this case I think in this case both Bats and Supes represent the same thing. Sort of a fantasy coupling of the perfect man and the perfect woman.

[Alan Lynch]

I like the stories that had her and Bats as a couple.
I do too, mainly because I've never been all that interested in Superman. A Batman/Wonder Woman relationship has way more potential, mainly because Bats is so fucked up and WW might not have the romantic experience to deal with that properly. Maybe.

[Black Atom]

I understand why DC has never came out and just said it but I just can't even remotely get how anyone can't know that WW has had lesbian sex. Unless they think the whole island is celibate. And I have zero doubt the Golden Age Wondy did. I mean he had her say Suffering Sappho for crying out loud! She spanked bad girls and threatened to "love" them to goodness.

Now...has she had sex with a male in various incarnations? Who knows. But it wouldn't be because she's a prude.

GA Wonder Woman certainly would've it seems. The current one sorta faces the impediment of being looked at as a daughter by everyone on the island.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

That's what the writers thought too.

Instead of pairing up with DC's " Mr. Wonderful ", she'd go for " Mr. Dark and Creepy " instead.

Ya know I always thought it would be funny if this scenario happened.

Wonder Woman talking to Superman and Lois on top of the Daily Planet after some situation.

Wondy: Very impressive. You are strong willed, brilliant and very attractive.

Supes: *blushes* Er, thank you.

Wondy: I didn't mean you, I meant her. *taking Lois' hand* You would have made a great Amazon. Would you like to visit our island?

Supes: Er ah...

Lois: Gulp.

[Bob Violence]

Which one of you brave souls would ask her?

[Matt Doc Martin]

She would need Superman (or some other super strength, dense skin guy) to help break the hymen.

[Cam63]

She would need Superman (or some other super strength, dense skin guy) to help break the hymen.

Bats no doubt has the tech gear for the job.

[Linkara]

Addressing Lester's main topic... what about adult virgins? I'm one and as far as I know I suffer no illnesses of the mi-

SNAKES! SNAKES EVERYWHERE! AAIIIIIIIEEEE!

Erm, of the mind. Yeah.

<.<

>.>

[Cam63]

You better get fucked then. :biggrin:

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

If you're an adult virgin and you publicly admit it, then we're talking serious mental problems...

[Mermaid]

If you're an adult virgin and you publicly admit it, then we're talking serious mental problems...

*nods* aint that the truth

[Hybrid2]

If you're an adult virgin and you publicly admit it, then we're talking serious mental problems...

O_o
What do you mean by that?:confused:

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

She would need Superman (or some other super strength, dense skin guy) to help break the hymen.

What the heck does Hymen Lepowitz have to do with any of this!?

Oh...wait....never mind.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Gah!
I hate both the Superman and Batman pairings.

If she is to have romantic entanglements with another DC character, I think it should be someone especificaly created for her in her own book, like Lois Lane was created for Superman´s or Vicky Vale for Batman´s.

And nothing against Steve Roger or Trevor Barnes but if indeed she is hetero, I´d rather see her hook up with a guy who can survive being crushed by those titatinum muscles of hers during climax.

[Sabrinaset]

Which one of you brave souls would ask her?

Princess Diana? Bree here. My email is sabrinaset@hotmail.com. Or give me a call!

[BnL]

She would need Superman (or some other super strength, dense skin guy) to help break the hymen.

Assuming, of course, that she's never masturbated. You just KNOW those amazons have some crazy dildos.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Gah!
I hate both the Superman and Batman pairings.

If she is to have romantic entanglements with another DC character, I think it should be someone especificaly created for her in her own book, like Lois Lane was created for Superman´s or Vicky Vale for Batman´s.

And nothing against Steve Roger or Trevor Barnes but if indeed she is hetero, I´d rather see her hook up with a guy who can survive being crushed by those titatinum muscles of hers during climax.

It's Steve Trevor not Steve Roger. However it does bring a thought to mind that it's too bad Steve Rogers isn't in the DCU as a Captain America and Wonder Woman pairing is intriguing.

But to address your point, so you are saying you want a whole new super guy or one who is at loose ends to become a regular supporting player in WW?

[IamtheRock3]

If I wrote for DC

The first Wonder Woman comic I would do, on the first page, I would just have her walking out of a room right after having sex

To get the virgin thing out of the way
and never bring it up again.

[IamtheRock3]

Gah!
I hate both the Superman and Batman pairings.

If she is to have romantic entanglements with another DC character, I think it should be someone especificaly created for her in her own book, like Lois Lane was created for Superman´s or Vicky Vale for Batman´s.

And nothing against Steve Roger or Trevor Barnes but if indeed she is hetero, I´d rather see her hook up with a guy who can survive being crushed by those titatinum muscles of hers during climax.

To be fair Human females seem to be able to take a SUPER POUNDING

Dont see why Wonder Woman super clamp would be any worst

Thing with wonder Woman I notice, is people a little more picky who she dates

Batman, nightwing, green arrow can manwhore themselves all around DC and nobody gives a darn.

But there very few guys I think that will be "universaly" accepted by the fans as worthy of getting the Amazon booty

[Chiroptera]

Personally, I think using the individuals writer's versions of Wonder woman over-complicates the issue. Each individual version is different based on that writer's view of the character, so I'm putting that notion aside.

Even then, I think even the curiousity about whether or not she's virgin is just ridiculous and I wish someone IamtheRock3's idea and use it, because damn it this thing needs to be put to bed!

Looking at the character as a whole, she may be virgin as far as actual "insert tab A into slot B" activities go; though personally I find it highly doubtful.
But, as others have already said, I cannot even conceive the idea that she's not been in bed with another woman probably on more than one occasion. So she may not have been 'penetrated' as the polite folk put it, but I don't believe for an instant that she is inexperienced in the bedroom.


And hey, didn't we have this very debate a few months ago on here? ... And didn't it turn kind of nasty near the end? :frown:

[Buzz Dixon]

According to the ending of the anime PROJECT A-KO, no.

[Spiffy]

Looking at the character as a whole, she may be virgin as far as actual "insert tab A into slot B" activities go; though personally I find it highly doubtful.
But, as others have already said, I cannot even conceive the idea that she's not been in bed with another woman probably on more than one occasion. So she may not have been 'penetrated' as the polite folk put it, but I don't believe for an instant that she is inexperienced in the bedroom.
Hasn't the thorn in that theory always been that she's supposed to be the youngest of the Amazons (with the possible exception of Donna in some versions), and so they'd all be kind of "Aunts" who helped raise her?

Not that the "Auntie" who taught the pretty child extra fun and games isn't possible, it's just a tiny bit less wholesome.

Then again Wonder Woman WAS filled with bondage references once upon a time. So maybe some additional "unwholesomeness" wasn't such a big deal!

[Eliseu Gouveia]

It's Steve Trevor not Steve Roger.


GAH!
I ALWAYS make that mistake.

Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers!

20+ years worth of reading WW comics and I still can´t help let that one slip past me.
I am now officialy convinced that it must be a subliminar thing, my subconscient must be trying really hard to tell me something.

Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers! Steve Trevor! Not Steve Rogers!

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I
But to address your point, so you are saying you want a whole new super guy or one who is at loose ends to become a regular supporting player in WW?

Either a new superguy especificaly designed for her book or an old mythical demi-something..
I don´t like the idea of cannibalizing other titles looking for someone for her.
A WW love interest should be at the WW´s writer beck and call.
A WW writer shouldn´t have to consult with Batman or Superman´s writer everytime she or he wants to write a scenne.
You don´t see Kurt Busiek calling John Smith everytime he wants to use Lois Lane in a Superman story, do you?


To be fair Human females seem to be able to take a SUPER POUNDING

Dont see why Wonder Woman super clamp would be any worst

Nobody knows if there is actualy any superpounding involved, Lois could very well be in charge of all the manoeuverings.

Plus, a human vagina can handle a dildo, whether it´s made of titanium or latex.
But a human penis faced with a vagina with walls as hard as concrete?

[West Mantooth]

Plus, a human vagina can handle a dildo, whether it´s made of titanium or latex.
But a human penis faced with a vagina with walls as hard as concrete?


And the conversation should end now.:biggrin: :biggrin:

[Lester C.]

If you're an adult virgin and you publicly admit it, then we're talking serious mental problems...

I would agree with you, but I think you have to take the religous into account. There are millions of people who have heathly interpersonal relationships with family, friends, and that special someone that chose to hold off on sex because their faith tells them to.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Either a new superguy especificaly designed for her book or an old mythical demi-something..
I don´t like the idea of cannibalizing other titles looking for someone for her.
A WW love interest should be at the WW´s writer beck and call.
A WW writer shouldn´t have to consult with Batman or Superman´s writer everytime she or he wants to write a scenne.
You don´t see Kurt Busiek calling John Smith everytime he wants to use Lois Lane in a Superman story, do you?

Oh I agree. Maybe some Greek hero demi-god type boy toy. Heh.

And perhaps your mind IS telling you something about Steve Rogers. :evilsmile:

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Oh I agree. Maybe some Greek hero demi-god type boy toy. Heh.


"- You mock me, amazon? I am Achiles, greatest warrior of my time! No man has ever defeated me in battle."
"- Well, I can assure you I am no man. Now brace yourself, for tonight I´m gonna make you cry for mommee."

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

"- You mock me, amazon? I am Achiles, greatest warrior of my time! No man has ever defeated me in battle."
"- Well, I can assure you I am no man. Now brace yourself, for tonight I´m gonna make you cry for mommee."

Hilarious.

[Pauly T]

I would agree with you, but I think you have to take the religous into account.


Well, he did say "mental problems".


Wouldn't believing in the existence of an invisible man in the sky count as a "mental problem"?

Socially acceptable crazy is still crazy...



But as to the topic at hand, I believe Christopher Priest did a Legends of the DCU story about some dictator who wanted one night with WW. It's been a while, so I can't remember if he sealed the deal or if the topic of WW's virginity (or lack thereof) was addressed.

[Lester C.]

Well, he did say "mental problems".


Wouldn't believing in the existence of an invisible man in the sky count as a "mental problem"?

Socially acceptable crazy is still crazy...



But as to the topic at hand, I believe Christopher Priest did a Legends of the DCU story about some dictator who wanted one night with WW. It's been a while, so I can't remember if he sealed the deal or if the topic of WW's virginity (or lack thereof) was addressed.

We can't measure mental illness. You can operate on someone all day and not show me Schizophrenia, depression, anxiety disorder etc. The only barometer of mental illness we have are the effects of the illness not the cause of the illness itself as genes are only markers of what could be not what is. This is why treating it is damn tricky. Whether someone is considered crazy or sane is based on behavior and religious people in general exhibit very mature so they are sane despite their beliefs which do sound absurd if you are looking to quantify them

[Chiroptera]

Hasn't the thorn in that theory always been that she's supposed to be the youngest of the Amazons (with the possible exception of Donna in some versions), and so they'd all be kind of "Aunts" who helped raise her?

Not that the "Auntie" who taught the pretty child extra fun and games isn't possible, it's just a tiny bit less wholesome.

Then again Wonder Woman WAS filled with bondage references once upon a time. So maybe some additional "unwholesomeness" wasn't such a big deal!

Speaking from the realm of logic, they're a greek pantheon worshipping, greek influenced, matriarchal society. Shacking up with a child or sibling was common place in Greek history and myth; and a surrogate aunt especially needn't be held to such views, so I simply can't even consider that so called "thorn" to be an actual issue and to anyone who actualy does consider it a viable issue... I say that they are a silly-nanny!

That goes double for all the WRITERS in comics who like to use one part of Greek history and myth, but chuck the rest out for the wolves! Sorry boys and girls, I ain't buyin' you wanna tell me the Greek Gods are real and part of the DCU? Fine. But you gotta take all the other weird Greek stuff along too! Hera is Zeus' SISTER remember!?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Speaking from the realm of logic, they're a greek pantheon worshipping, greek influenced, matriarchal society. Shacking up with a child or sibling was common place in Greek history and myth; and a surrogate aunt especially needn't be held to such views, so I simply can't even consider that so called "thorn" to be an actual issue and to anyone who actualy does consider it a viable issue... I say that they are a silly-nanny!

That goes double for all the WRITERS in comics who like to use one part of Greek history and myth, but chuck the rest out for the wolves! Sorry boys and girls, I ain't buyin' you wanna tell me the Greek Gods are real and part of the DCU? Fine. But you gotta take all the other weird Greek stuff along too! Hera is Zeus' SISTER remember!?

Writers have been selectively choosing what interests them and discarding what doesn´t for ages

I mean, Stan Lee made sure to pick up the positive aspects of a certain norse god of thunder like courage and strenght and conveniently forget that this guy was so stupid that Loki once managed to convince him that he was pregnant.

[AllisterH]

The problem is that there are very few heroes WW fans are willing to accept.

Superman and Batman being the obvious ones of course, but I agree with Eliseu that they most assuredly shouldn't be characters that the WW writer would have to share.

Personally, I DESPISE both pairings.

In fact, the Kingdom Come pairing ACTUALLY makes Diana look even worse. We get a whole spiel on Superman and Lois death and how it affects the world yet not once in the entire storyline do we even get a hint of "did Wondy ever have a boyfriend herself"

With other comics like the Superman/WW in Valhalla for 1000 years and the Superman 1,000,000 they all kind of reinforce that Superman's only love is Lois. Personally I didn't think that was healthy as I prefer the Byrne version in Generations who gets over it and hooks up with Lana Lang (I would NEVER want a loved one to simply give up on love if I died especially if they are still young, It seems extremely selfish and NOT mentally healthy for a 30 yr old to call it quits in lve).

As for Batman, again, another one I despise but this comes from how it is treated in fanfiction and also the Nightwing/Starfire coverup. With the former, you always have Diana moving to Gotham and changing and yet, Btman stays the same while with the latter, I hated how they basically excised Starfire from Nightwing (Barbara is his true love? Calmly flips over his Baxter Teen titans...yeah...tell me another one there)

The problem is that she's gone too long without spreading those legs so any character introduced comes off as "desperate". Crisis was over 20 years ago and yet Diana has appeared monthly and STILL doesn't have a boyfriend other than Trevor Barnes and is still a virgin?

Can anyone name me a character that has been appearing MONTHLY for the past 20 years that is still a virgin and has had no romantic entanglements (Power pack et al excepted)

[AllisterH]

The problem is that there are very few heroes WW fans are willing to accept.

Superman and Batman being the obvious ones of course, but I agree with Eliseu that they most assuredly shouldn't be characters that the WW writer would have to share.

Personally, I DESPISE both pairings.

In fact, the Kingdom Come pairing ACTUALLY makes Diana look even worse. We get a whole spiel on Superman and Lois death and how it affects the world yet not once in the entire storyline do we even get a hint of "did Wondy ever have a boyfriend herself"

With other comics like the Superman/WW in Valhalla for 1000 years and the Superman 1,000,000 they all kind of reinforce that Superman's only love is Lois. Personally I didn't think that was healthy as I prefer the Byrne version in Generations who gets over it and hooks up with Lana Lang (I would NEVER want a loved one to simply give up on love if I died especially if they are still young, It seems extremely selfish and NOT mentally healthy for a 30 yr old to call it quits in lve).

As for Batman, again, another one I despise but this comes from how it is treated in fanfiction and also the Nightwing/Starfire coverup. With the former, you always have Diana moving to Gotham and changing and yet, Btman stays the same while with the latter, I hated how they basically excised Starfire from Nightwing (Barbara is his true love? Calmly flips over his Baxter Teen titans...yeah...tell me another one there)

The problem is that she's gone too long without spreading those legs so any character introduced comes off as "desperate". Crisis was over 20 years ago and yet Diana has appeared monthly and STILL doesn't have a boyfriend other than Trevor Barnes and is still a virgin?

Can anyone name me a character that has been appearing MONTHLY for the past 20 years that is still a virgin and has had no romantic entanglements (Power pack et al excepted)

[Deathstroke]

Am I crazy? I thought when Jimenez had the book he devirginized her?

[Agent Helix]

Really creepy fascination with fictional vadges going on in this thread.

[Chiroptera]

Writers have been selectively choosing what interests them and discarding what doesn´t for ages

I mean, Stan Lee made sure to pick up the positive aspects of a certain norse god of thunder like courage and strenght and conveniently forget that this guy was so stupid that Loki once managed to convince him that he was pregnant.

Which is the reason I don't, and never will, read Thor. :tongue:
I like WW's mythology so much because they generally DO use all the history of the Greeks, the good and the bad, and all the history of their gods right down to the incestuous marriages! That's why it rubs me the wrong way when, once in awhile, we get a writer who conveniently over looks these facts.

[Black Atom]

I would agree with you, but I think you have to take the religous into account. There are millions of people who have heathly interpersonal relationships with family, friends, and that special someone that chose to hold off on sex because their faith tells them to.

Heh. I find the idea that people who are adult virgins must be either mentally ill or relgious nuts to be a little narrow-minded. Of course, they do miss out on all that excellent, awkward high school sex.

[AllisterH]

Which is the reason I don't, and never will, read Thor. :tongue:
I like WW's mythology so much because they generally DO use all the history of the Greeks, the good and the bad, and all the history of their gods right down to the incestuous marriages! That's why it rubs me the wrong way when, once in awhile, we get a writer who conveniently over looks these facts.

Incredible Hercules (and ARES miniseries) in the very short run it has racked up, has actually used the greek mythology BETTER than it has EVER been used in WW

And I have every single issue of WW from the beginning of the post-crisis era to up to the recent Khund storyline with Etta.

:Fascination with fictional vadges

It isn't really a fascination but just normal conversation usually. Usually, someone will ask, "how is the Steve Trevor relationship with WW going" or "whose her love interest"

Then someone knowledgeable will respond,,,,"Um, she doesn't have a boyfriend, she hasn't had one since 1986"

original person will respond, "Wait, she's a VIRGIN!!!??" in disbelief

Which of course brings up the whole issue once again.

The fact that she hasn't had sex since Crisis ACTALLY makes her stick out. Like I said, name for me another character that has been appearing regularly since 86 and is still a virgin/not in a relationship.

It is just plain weird now for Wondy.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

That´s my sentiment as well.

I was okay with Perez´upstart, 18-ish years old wide-eyed new-in-patriarch-world WW being a virgin but she´s been in "here" for what, 10 years time in DCU chronology?

A perfect woman gifted with the beauty of Aphrodite and you hardly ever see anyone hitting on her.
DC has managed to cristalise her in the role of Virgin Mary in a swimsuit.

On one hand, I can understand how tricky it is to handle sexuality in comics.
If a woman has unmarried sex, many folks immediately start regarding her as little more than sidewalk spit.
In that sense, the fact that she´s a virgin may have actualy helped her so far since writers don´t usualy throw virgins to the wolves like they do with women who do have sex.

There´s also the fanatics, remember the racist diatribes that erupted when it was hinted thae Trevor Barnes was gonna bang her?

Personaly, I´m glad I´m not Gail. Damned if you do, damned if you don´t.
I love WW but there´s too much baggage that comes with the character when it comes to her personal life.

Me? I´d probably have her banging a different super-boyfriend/girlfriend per issue.
That´s the beauty of being european - very little hang ups about Teh Sexay. :biggrin:

[Stressfactor]

Keep in mind that WW IS named "Diana" and the goddess Diana did eventually get associated with the Moon and with Chastity.

I think those periods where Diana was essentially a goddess or demi-goddess didn't help because, despite the randiness of Zeus, very few Greek or Roman goddesses mated with mortal and spawned children.

But put me in the camp of figuring that WW has had female lovers while still living on Themyscra but that she is not opposed to the idea of taking a male lover.

In a more practical mode -- I think a lot of writers have trouble balancing relationships in comic books in general but with Wonder Woman it is particularly hard. Lois Lane has had decades and even she's gone from spunky, tough girl reporter, to airhead who's only aim in life in to marry herself off to Superman, to, finally, tough, independent, woman. Even at that -- look how many times Lois has been used as the Damsel in Distress (or D-I-D and I like to abbreviate it).

How do you craft a male character who can be independent but still be in a relationship with a superhero and NOT have him ending up overshadowing Wonder Woman NOR have him turn out to be a wimp. I mean, having her love interest be a Greek Myth hero or demi-god or something would prevent him from from being a wimp -- but then, if the writer isn't careful, he could end up overshadowing the real star of the comic.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Which is where the editor comes in and says:"- You´re writing a WONDER WOMAN comic, not a Perseus/Belerofont/Heracles/Ulysses comic."

I think in the end it always boils down to the editors and what they´re doing.
In the last 10-20 years I got the feeling most seem to be doing everything but editing their own books.

Edit: I always had a littel beef with "Diana" because it´s not really greek but the roman name for Artemis. Guess Marston wasn´t that big on mythology after all...

[Stressfactor]

Seriously though -- comic book writers can't handle long term relationships and I don't think any Wonder Woman fan would be that fond of a one-night-stand (particularly considering some of the vitriol regarding the Huntress's one night stand).

Sooo omany Spider-Man writers openly stated that they hated writing MJ, they hated the marriage because they felt it "bound" them. A lot of writers have gone on record as saying they hated writing Lois Lane and they hate the "Super-Marriage" because they think it "binds" them.

MOST (not all) comic book writers have been brought up in the craft to think that everything must be CONFLICT to create tension. There must be unrequited love, or there must be the vixen who threatens to separate Mr. Hero from his one-true-love, or there must be lovers spats -- Oh NOES will they break up foreverz?!, If the characters aren't married then these are the kinds of tools writers think they have to play with and feel they SHOULD play with.

In the case of married characters they seem to feel like their tools are limited to: will he cheat on her? Is she going to cheat on him? If one does cheat will the other ever forgive them? etc. And these are the tools they think they SHOULD be playing with.

And ALL of that kind of crap -- well, it's just not Wonder Woman and I think most modern writers know at least THAT much but they can't figure out a way around it.

I applaud the idea of Diana and Tom Tresser dating and I don't care what anyone else thinks about Nemesis I DO hope he gets to take her to bed and I DO hope they have a long-term love partnership.

[Black Atom]

It's not really an issue unique to Wonder Woman. Superman was asexual for a long time. Only recently have I seen anyone hint at him getting it on with anybody before Lois. Despite having had many girlfriends, it was only assumed Peter Parker actually ever slept with, at most, two of them (one of whom would become his wife). I think it stems from the perception of virginity being inherently virtuous.

[Royal]

Which one of you brave souls would ask her?

*slowly raises hand*

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I have no prob with all the back-and-forths, the "will he love me in the morning", the "why didn´t she call me", the joys and despairs of having a personal life and all those pesky littel hurdles that make life so interesting.

What i have problem with is believing someone like WW would go through 10 years of such a barren love life because it only perpetuates the notion thea tsex is sin, is evil, is something beneath our pure, chaste saint.

My only problems with Treeser so far are that:

1) he´s only human and I was hoping for someone super-human

2) he´s an established character in the DCU (albeit a less known one).
Remember when the Smallville producers decided they wanted to put Batman in the show and the Batman studio pulled the plug?
Imagine WW has had a stable relationship in the comic for years and fans are used to seeing them as a pair.
One day, you decide to make a Wonder Woman movie.
Everthing is going smoothly and suddenly, the studios filming the Check Mate movie go Christopher Nolan on you:" - Back off! get your paws offa Nemesis, he´s OUR boy! Go get her another boyfriend!"

[Eliseu Gouveia]

It's not really an issue unique to Wonder Woman. Superman was asexual for a long time. Only recently have I seen anyone hint at him getting it on with anybody before Lois. Despite having had many girlfriends, it was only assumed Peter Parker actually ever slept with, at most, two of them (one of whom would become his wife). I think it stems from the perception of virginity being inherently virtuous.

Notice that Sins Past retconned Peter Parker ever sleeping with Gwen Stacy, meaning that (unless he slept with MJ before marriage) he was still a virgin when he married.

[adam_warlock_2099]

I would agree with you, but I think you have to take the religous into account. There are millions of people who have heathly interpersonal relationships with family, friends, and that special someone that chose to hold off on sex because their faith tells them to.

I didn't for religion, I just did for marriage. Though I don't know at what age one would be considered an adult virgin.

As far as Wonder Woman, if William Moulton Marston fascination with bondage and rope play in a 100% same sex setting were any indication, I am sure that something of a sexual nature has taken place with her, even if it wasn't vaginal sex with a man.

[Stressfactor]

There was one issue of Spider-Man that pretty heavily indicated that Peter and MJ slept together before they were married.

And for the record, I like the idea that Tom is human -- it helps to add to the potential conflicts because Tom's view of life is, ultimately HUMAN while Diana, for all her wisdom, still approaches life from a totally different viewpoint.

It's kind of like during "52" and the post-"52" Superman run with KDB and Geoff Johns where they were showing Clark trying to deal and then eventually coming to terms with the loss of his powers. Those bits in "52" where he talked about cutting himself shaving and needing his wife to remind him to use potholders to take something hot off the stove -- it served as a reminder that there were mundane aspects of life that Clark with powers never had to deal with and think about. And Tom not only provides her with a human's eye view of the world -- he provides her with a man's human eye view of the world. I've got guy friends and we've talked about (although not in detail thank god) the differences between girls and guys going through puberty. My guy friends have helped me understand some aspects of guy relationships and guy upbrining that have always eluded me.... Although oddly enough not a single guy friend has been able to give me a good reason as to why most men seem to want women to have long hair.

Even with 10 years (or so) of living in 'man's world' there are probably some aspects of life that Diana may INTELLECTUALLY know but she has never FELT. I'm sure she intellectually understand the nature of bullying but can she viscerally understand what it feels like to be a self-conscious 13 year old and have a bunch of bullies picking on her? Can she viscerally understand a girl going to her first prom -- looking in the mirror and seeing herself in a beautiful dress and for perhaps the first time feeling like a princess?

THAT'S the kind of stuff I want to see from Wonder Woman's relationships with humans. I want to see Tom trying to tell Diana about going to the High School Prom, I want him to talk about his relationship with his brother, I want him to try to explain football (because god knows I don't understand it), etc.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Problem with Wonder Woman and relationships is the madonna/whore complex thing.

She's basically the uber-woman, portraying all things good and great about feminity and what have you.

Not only is she pure, she's above sex, the very idea of her having sex with anybody demeans her.

I guess to alot of writers, portraying her having sex would to put it crudely be like having her running around with a cum stain on her swimming suit.

That and the feminist angle......what with her bracelets and bullets being phallic symbols blocked by them.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

There was one issue of Spider-Man that pretty heavily indicated that Peter and MJ slept together before they were married.

And for the record, I like the idea that Tom is human -- it helps to add to the potential conflicts because Tom's view of life is, ultimately HUMAN while Diana, for all her wisdom, still approaches life from a totally different viewpoint.

It's kind of like during "52" and the post-"52" Superman run with KDB and Geoff Johns where they were showing Clark trying to deal and then eventually coming to terms with the loss of his powers. Those bits in "52" where he talked about cutting himself shaving and needing his wife to remind him to use potholders to take something hot off the stove -- it served as a reminder that there were mundane aspects of life that Clark with powers never had to deal with and think about. And Tom not only provides her with a human's eye view of the world -- he provides her with a man's human eye view of the world. I've got guy friends and we've talked about (although not in detail thank god) the differences between girls and guys going through puberty. My guy friends have helped me understand some aspects of guy relationships and guy upbrining that have always eluded me.... Although oddly enough not a single guy friend has been able to give me a good reason as to why most men seem to want women to have long hair.

Even with 10 years (or so) of living in 'man's world' there are probably some aspects of life that Diana may INTELLECTUALLY know but she has never FELT. I'm sure she intellectually understand the nature of bullying but can she viscerally understand what it feels like to be a self-conscious 13 year old and have a bunch of bullies picking on her? Can she viscerally understand a girl going to her first prom -- looking in the mirror and seeing herself in a beautiful dress and for perhaps the first time feeling like a princess?

THAT'S the kind of stuff I want to see from Wonder Woman's relationships with humans. I want to see Tom trying to tell Diana about going to the High School Prom, I want him to talk about his relationship with his brother, I want him to try to explain football (because god knows I don't understand it), etc.



I think turning WW into a regular human when in Diana Prince form already handles that pretty well.
As much as I originaly hated the idea, as Diana Prince she can experience things that WW could never, such as feeling cold, sneezing or having to think twice about walking into a desert alley.

She learns those things first hand instead of as mere hearsay straight from Tom´s mouth.

[Stressfactor]

She learns those things first hand instead of as mere hearsay straight from Tom´s mouth.

Ah, but she still doesn't get the man's viewpoint. Like I said, I've learned a lot from my guy friends that I wouldn't have understood on my own.

Men may not be from Mars and Women may not be from Venus but the way we approach and experience things can be totally different. I only hope that Gail eventually gets Tom to the point where he feels comfortable having real conversations with Diana.

[Bob Violence]

*slowly raises hand*
And, do you enjoy your current arrangement of bones and internal organs?

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Although oddly enough not a single guy friend has been able to give me a good reason as to why most men seem to want women to have long hair.



That ones easy and I can see why your pals didn't want to admit it or more than likely weren't aware of it. Homophobia. Short hair= men's hair.

However thankfully there are men like myself who find it hot as hell and thanfully women like Winona Ryder, Halle Barry, Cameron Diaz, Katie Holmes and Ashley Judd among a host of others realize how great they look with the short cuts.

Indeed, to my mind Demi Moore never looked better than she did in Ghost. And thats saying something. In fact I loved it when Wondy sported the short hair for a short while a bit back.

I love long hair, short hair, and in the case of Peris Khamabatta...no hair. :biggrin:

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Ah, but she still doesn't get the man's viewpoint. Like I said, I've learned a lot from my guy friends that I wouldn't have understood on my own.

Men may not be from Mars and Women may not be from Venus but the way we approach and experience things can be totally different. I only hope that Gail eventually gets Tom to the point where he feels comfortable having real conversations with Diana.

Then, we are entering into a completely different territory.
You want WW to discover what it is to be a normal man.
Being a normal man myself, I pretty much don´t care about that sort of fascination and would rather be mesmerised by the sight of two demigods walking the clouds side by side.

[Stressfactor]

Pft. I guess it just seems to me an unfair arguement -- like saying that only actors and actresses should get married because they're the only ones who can truly understand one another. Or saying lawyers should marry other lawyers. or computer geeks should only marry other computer geeks. I just don't buy it.

PLUS there is the fairtale aspect of it. I always liked those stories where the humble born girl gets the prince or the peasant boy proves he has the heart of a nobleman and gets the princess.

God and demi-god having relationships with goddesses are all over mythology... and to me THAT'S what's boring. Variety is the spice of life.

[ludo]

I seem to remember seeing a comic of Wonder Woman and Superman up in the clouds doing the hokey pokey. Maybe it was a one-shot? There was an issue where Batman married Wonder Woman as shown in some sort of "what-if" device up in the Watchtower. Does anyone remember that? Or was that an Unlimited cartoon episode?

[Black Atom]

That ones easy and I can see why your pals didn't want to admit it or more than likely weren't aware of it. Homophobia. Short hair= men's hair.


Well it shows a preference for femininity (which most of us have been cultured to associate long hair with) but that's not the same as homophobia a all I think.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Pft. I guess it just seems to me an unfair arguement -- like saying that only actors and actresses should get married because they're the only ones who can truly understand one another. Or saying lawyers should marry other lawyers. or computer geeks should only marry other computer geeks. I just don't buy it.

PLUS there is the fairtale aspect of it. I always liked those stories where the humble born girl gets the prince or the peasant boy proves he has the heart of a nobleman and gets the princess.

God and demi-god having relationships with goddesses are all over mythology... and to me THAT'S what's boring. Variety is the spice of life.

We´re looking at different mythologies.You´re thinking ancient mythology, where Zeus would bang any cute mortal woman he laid eyes on.
I´m thinking modern mythology where Superman gets Lois and Spider-man gets MJ.
It´s boring to me.
Superheroes with regular humans stopped fascinating me eon ago, now I´m trying to bring it into the next level, try to imagine what an actual relationship between demigods would be like, the sheer scale, the MAGNITUDE of it all.

What jumps to me from the get-go is the companionship; I see them somewhere overhead walking the stars together, siding with each other in battle (the epic sight of the two of them alone against entire hordes...yum) ............... or just making unbelievably hot mountain-blasting demigod sex in the clouds.^_^

I guess that´s the difference between you and me, you´re trying to find connection.

I´m trying to dream of what lies beyond.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Well it shows a preference for femininity (which most of us have been cultured to associate long hair with) but that's not the same as homophobia a all I think.

I usualy associate short hair to practical hair, i.e. matured, down-to-earth women who are both unbelievably hot and don´t lose a whole morning washing said hair.

I.e., my favorite type. ^_^

[scout1279]

I usualy associate short hair to practical hair, i.e. matured, down-to-earth women who are both unbelievably hot and don´t lose a whole morning washing said hair.

I.e., my favorite type. ^_^

When I had short hair, any time that was gained in the washing, was doubly lost in the amount of time I had to spend fussing with it afterward.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

When I had short hair, any time that was gained in the washing, was doubly lost in the amount of time I had to spend fussing with it afterward.

http://www.etherlair.com/images/net/gendownedcar.gif


This is for trying to ruin my fantasy. ^_^

[Stressfactor]

When I had short hair, any time that was gained in the washing, was doubly lost in the amount of time I had to spend fussing with it afterward.

ah, but you see, the trick is to get it cut short but find a no-fuss style. I have naturally curly hair so when mine was short I got it cut in a style where all I had to do was put a little gel in it, tousle it, and run out the door.

I've been growing it back out now -- but only because when it's short all of the white hairs I've developed are more noticeable and I refuse to start dying my hair at 35. 40 maybe, but not 35.

[scout1279]

ah, but you see, the trick is to get it cut short but find a no-fuss style. I have naturally curly hair so when mine was short I got it cut in a style where all I had to do was put a little gel in it, tousle it, and run out the door.

I've been growing it back out now -- but only because when it's short all of the white hairs I've developed are more noticeable and I refuse to start dying my hair at 35. 40 maybe, but not 35.
Yeah, I pretty much look like a Q-tip no matter what the style. My hair's not just curly, it's big. Keeping it long is a way of making sure it stays in the stratosphere of my head without having to straighten it every morning.

[Stressfactor]

Yeah, I pretty much look like a Q-tip no matter what the style. My hair's not just curly, it's big. Keeping it long is a way of making sure it stays in the stratosphere of my head without having to straighten it every morning.
Have you tried having your stylist go after it with thinning shears? I have to do that mine when it's long because it's also thick and when it's long it tends to get bushy otherwise -- particularly when it rains... I look like a walking frizz attack.

[Chiroptera]

Personally I'm one of those gusy that likes long hair, but it seems for a different reason than listed here so far.
It's just alot more fun to pet. One of my favorite things to do is be able to just snuggle up with my lover and stroke a hand through her hair. Honestly Diana's got the tops for me as far as attractive women go, killer legs, long dark hair, bright eyes. I like that look, in fact, the first thing that'll catch my eye about a girl is the condition of her hair. Glossy well kept hair is going to grab my attention more than anything else; with the exception maybe of such a woman running bare ass naked down the side walk.


Back on the subject of Diana's relationships, I'd honestly love to see BOTH Zeu and StressFactor's ideas brought to life, and one more at that.

I'd like to see Diana in a true relationship with another super. I'd like to see her in a relationship with a normal human, and I'd love to see her in a lesbian relationship for so many reasons; validation, confirmation and most of all just for the sheer guts to actually take a big name hero and show them to not swing for EITHER side but be completely comfortable loving either a man or a woman. I think that would be very suiting for Diana, and would be in keeping with her compassionate and caring side.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Well it shows a preference for femininity (which most of us have been cultured to associate long hair with) but that's not the same as homophobia a all I think.

Well it is. Homophobia isn't always some giant glaring monster nor does it only come in one shape and size. We are all homophobic to some degree to no fault of our own. As you said it's ingrained into us. Not directly. Ma and Pa Example aren't telling little Billy to 'hate teh gayz" but they do instill those gender stamps and what a boy and girl are supposed to be like. So the preference for the long more 'feminine' hair over the short more 'masculine' hair is a quiet little dab of homophobia that some folks aren't even aware of And it's harmless really. Fear isn't the same as hate. And it doesn't mean guys with a preference for girl's with long hair will bash gays or not break bread with them. And it certainly won't keep them from dating someone who looked like Scarlett Johansson because she has short hair. :smile:

Now we won't get into the psychology of my love of short haired tom boys. Let's just stick with the fact that they are girls and have girl parts. :biggrin:

[Black Atom]

Well it is. Homophobia isn't always some giant glaring monster nor does it only come in one shape and size. We are all homophobic to some degree to no fault of our own. As you said it's ingrained into us. Not directly. Ma and Pa Example aren't telling little Billy to 'hate teh gayz" but they do instill those gender stamps and what a boy and girl are supposed to be like. So the preference for the long more 'feminine' hair over the short more 'masculine' hair is a quiet little dab of homophobia that some folks aren't even aware of And it's harmless really. Fear isn't the same as hate. And it doesn't mean guys with a preference for girl's with long hair will bash gays or not break bread with them. And it certainly won't keep them from dating someone who looked like Scarlett Johansson because she has short hair. :smile:

Now we won't get into the psychology of my love of short haired tom boys. Let's just stick with the fact that they are girls and have girl parts. :biggrin:

Mmmmmmnnnnnnah. I mean I see what you're saying and I'm sure it's true some of the time, but I have a problem in general with painting a picture with that wide of a brush. Even if Ma and Pa Example were homophobes, so much of what shapes our preferences come from so many other sources, it's hard for me to be sold on that being a sole, guiding force for why guys like "feminine" stuff. It's taking the Marxist approach to psychology a bit too far by suggesting that being heterosexual is being actively homophobic/anti-homosexual.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Mmmmmmnnnnnnah. I mean I see what you're saying and I'm sure it's true some of the time, but I have a problem in general with painting a picture with that wide of a brush. Even if Ma and Pa Example were homophobes, so much of what shapes our preferences come from so many other sources, it's hard for me to be sold on that being a sole, guiding force for why guys like "feminine" stuff. It's taking the Marxist approach to psychology a bit too far by suggesting that being heterosexual is being actively homophobic/anti-homosexual.

Yeah I think I have overstated the case and painted with too broad of a brush. What I was trying to get across is society has been homophobic. Not always in an overt manner. And we are a product of that as much sublimely as anything. The same thing goes for racism. (Such as the white person being nervous about a black person on a street after dark in a bad neighborhood scenario). Now the younger the generation the less this is so certainly but it is far from completely gone. I wish it were. But in the case of something as insignificant as short or long hair it really does come down to that if the preference is because of the feminine vs masculine look (which again is something that is learned behavior) is down to "I'm s'posed to like that and I'm s'posed to not like that as much" based off of ingrained gender identification. Then that is an inheritable form of homophobia. But again this is all very deep subconscious stuff. We never really are aware of it. All person A knows is he very much prefers Jessica Alba's mane of hair as opposed to Katie Holme's short bob. He doesn't know or care about the reason and it's harmless.

But no it doesn't mean he has issues with his masculinity or hates gays or anything like that. Just as the fact that I like short haired tom boys doesn't mean I am gonna start putting up pictures of emo boys tomorrow. :biggrin:

And don't get me wrong. I loves me a big mane of long hair too. :)

But yes you are correct that more and more people are much more aware and our society has gotten much better about all of this stuff.

[IamtheRock3]

Either a new superguy especificaly designed for her book or an old mythical demi-something..
I don´t like the idea of cannibalizing other titles looking for someone for her.
A WW love interest should be at the WW´s writer beck and call.
A WW writer shouldn´t have to consult with Batman or Superman´s writer everytime she or he wants to write a scenne.
You don´t see Kurt Busiek calling John Smith everytime he wants to use Lois Lane in a Superman story, do you?



Nobody knows if there is actualy any superpounding involved, Lois could very well be in charge of all the manoeuverings.

Plus, a human vagina can handle a dildo, whether it´s made of titanium or latex.
But a human penis faced with a vagina with walls as hard as concrete?

ahhh but you forget SUPER ejaculation

heck some humans even had super babies

oh and Lois been shown to sleep with superman before, showed them post love making

[Black Atom]

This could be a discussion on its own, really.

My only problem is that if you attribute a preference for something like long hair to inhereited homophobia, why doesn't it account for everything? If you like breasts, curvy hips, big butts or vaginas in general, that's really just you trying not to be gay. Certainly most males are steered toward a preference for females (which indicates a heavy bias in favor in heteosexuality but not always explicit homophobia) but individual concepts of attractiveness are shaped by myriad and immesurable influences. Also, why does the homophobia programming work in some cases and fail dramatically in others, producing the converse result?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

ahhh but you forget SUPER ejaculation

heck some humans even had super babies

oh and Lois been shown to sleep with superman before, showed them post love making

I am not sold on the "men of steel, women of kleenex" concept.
IMHO, there is no evidence that Superman could make Lois explode with his "superejaculation". Frank Miller elseworlds material aside, there´s little known about kryptonian intercourse.

As for Lois having a super baby, there is the possibility that said child could very well be not much different from a regular human baby. She could have a pretty standard pregnancy and delivery and until the baby´s body charged with solar energy, he/she could go on for months and maybe years without showing any superpowers.
This is all speculation, of course, based on the fact that Superman himself didn´t manifest most of his abilities until later in his childhood.

As for Lois sleeping with Supes, I believe you misunderstood my post.
I didn´t say she never slept with him.
I do believe he has had sex with her (thoguh I seriously doubt he fully commited to it like he would to a Big Barda, Wonder Woman, Lady Maxima or Koriander, for fear of eviscerating her "cardboard body").

What I said was that Lois is probably the one handles the manoeuvers (since she´s the one who risks being injured).
Women on top and all.

[IamtheRock3]

I am not sold on the "men of steel, women of kleenex" concept.
IMHO, there is no evidence that Superman could make Lois explode with his "superejaculation". Frank Miller elseworlds material aside, there´s little known about kryptonian intercourse.

As for Lois having a super baby, there is the possibility that said child could very well be not much different from a regular human baby. She could have a pretty standard pregnancy and delivery and until the baby´s body charged with solar energy, he/she could go on for months and maybe years without showing any superpowers.
This is all speculation, of course, based on the fact that Superman himself didn´t manifest most of his abilities until later in his childhood.

As for Lois sleeping with Supes, I believe you misunderstood my post.
I didn´t say she never slept with him.
I do believe he has had sex with her (thoguh I seriously doubt he fully commited to it like he would to a Big Barda, Wonder Woman, Lady Maxima or Koriander, for fear of eviscerating her "cardboard body").

What I said was that Lois is probably the one handles the manoeuvers (since she´s the one who risks being injured).
Women on top and all.


And what about SHE HULK. She bangs humans, and super Human a like and they all come out in one peice. And she strikes me as a girl...who how can I put this nicely...who is very Enthusiastic in bed

No

Big barda significant stronger then Mr mircale, and has no promblems. Sure I can name other human man, super girl pairings if I have the time. Heck Lois isnt the only human broad who had super kids.

And sense this a Gail Simmions board,

I dont recall Scanal leaving Knockout room with broken fingers (use your imagination on how her fingers broke)

Bottom line if we can accept superman glasses working, then Super hero on hero action ok

[Eliseu Gouveia]

And what about SHE HULK. She bangs humans, and super Human a like and they all come out in one peice. And she strikes me as a girl...who how can I put this nicely...who is very Enthusiastic in bed

No

Big barda significant stronger then Mr mircale, and has no promblems. Sure I can name other human man, super girl pairings if I have the time. Heck Lois isnt the only human broad who had super kids.

And sense this a Gail Simmions board,

I dont recall Scanal leaving Knockout room with broken fingers (use your imagination on how her fingers broke)

Bottom line if we can accept superman glasses working, then Super hero on hero action ok


I had forgotten about that.
You are right, you´ve got me there.
Everytime I hear mention of She Hulk sleeping with Tony Stark or Big Barda with Scott Free I just roll my eyes.
It´s one of those things in comics where I just nod and smile, nod and smile.

To me, clearly, the people who cooked those scennes up haven´t considered the implications thoroughly.


Now before everyone jumps me with the old "it´s comicbooks, it´s not supposed to make sense" because of my neurotic need to make sense, I ask you this:
is it too much to want some books to have a different level of "realism" in them than the one we apply to, say, Bugs Bunny?
If it´s all comicbooks and it doesn´t need to make sense, why does Batman worry if someone points a gun to his face?
If it´s comicbook, the bullet will bounce off his face like it does Duffy Duck´s, right?

Daredevil shouldn´t have to worry about falling to his death from a 30 stories building.
It´s all comicbooks, it doesn´t need to make sense, so clearly he´ll just bounce off the pavement unscathed, like a tennis ball. Or -worst case-scenario-, he´ll emerge froma crater with birds circling around his head.

It IS comicbooks. All of them.
But not all of them have to be Looney Tunes cartoon comic books.

[IamtheRock3]

I had forgotten about that.
You are right, you´ve got me there.
Everytime I hear mention of She Hulk sleeping with Tony Stark or Big Barda with Scott Free I just roll my eyes.
It´s one of those things in comics where I just nod and smile, nod and smile.

To me, clearly, the people who cooked those scennes up haven´t considered the implications thoroughly.


Now before everyone jumps me with the old "it´s comicbooks, it´s not supposed to make sense" because of my neurotic need to make sense, I ask you this:
is it too much to want some books to have a different level of "realism" in them than the one we apply to, say, Bugs Bunny?
If it´s all comicbooks and it doesn´t need to make sense, why does Batman worry if someone points a gun to his face?
If it´s comicbook, the bullet will bounce off his face like it does Duffy Duck´s, right?

Daredevil shouldn´t have to worry about falling to his death from a 30 stories building.
It´s all comicbooks, it doesn´t need to make sense, so clearly he´ll just bounce off the pavement unscathed, like a tennis ball. Or -worst case-scenario-, he´ll emerge froma crater with birds circling around his head.

It IS comicbooks. All of them.
But not all of them have to be Looney Tunes cartoon comic books.

I understand what your saying

my view on realism is you shouldnt put REAL world physics to much...cause really a LOT of these people shoudnt be able to function

superman would of accidently killed tons of people as a kid till he got his power right. A baby Clark would of tossed a rattle through ma kent head during a temper tantrum. batman would of snapped his neck, and wouldnt get up from being tossed through walls

I mean in the Recent Wonder Woman storyline, SUPERMAN beat Batman with his fist, thinking he just killed Lois. Let he lived

is that really THAT far off from looney toons


not to mention no innocents ever dieing in big super hero fights

To me it doesnt have to be looney toons
But when your wondering the Physics of super hero vaginas and ejaculations that a little to much

Oh it doesnt have to be looney toons

But SOME things you just got to let slide

cause writer like to mix and match super hero realtion. Thing is not all heroes have super durabillity

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I guess I´m a byproduct of the 80s, willing to give suspension of disbelief a certain latitude but upset if it yanks my arm when I´m only offering my hand.

I´ll take my titanium vaginas elsewhere. ^_^

[Johnny_Luck]

That ones easy and I can see why your pals didn't want to admit it or more than likely weren't aware of it. Homophobia. Short hair= men's hair.



I really don't think that has jack to do with it actually, there are plenty of men with really long hair out there are well.

Not to mention that girls like Ashley Scott can look amazingly hot with short hair like in Into the Blue, BOP TV show, and Just Friends, as well as Mandy Moore, Halle Berry in Swordfish, etc.

I think it has everything to do with that most guys that I know like the almost silk like feeling of hair, and do like to rub their hands through their girls hair from time to time, that and longer hair can help bring out some facial features in women as well.

[Corrina]

I
What I said was that Lois is probably the one handles the manoeuvers (since she´s the one who risks being injured).
Women on top and all.

I don't buy that she's in danger.

Every day of his life, Clark has to be careful to control his strength and speed. Every second when he's not Superman, he's controlling it--when he walks, when he picks up coffee cups, when he pounds his typewriter. I'd say it probably takes conscious effort for him to access his strength.

I don't see why it would be a problem for him to have sex with Lois. Sure, it's a little harder to have control during sex but if you can learn to handle coffee cups and do all these fine motor movement controlling your strength, you can have sex too.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

This could be a discussion on its own, really.

My only problem is that if you attribute a preference for something like long hair to inhereited homophobia, why doesn't it account for everything? If you like breasts, curvy hips, big butts or vaginas in general, that's really just you trying not to be gay. Certainly most males are steered toward a preference for females (which indicates a heavy bias in favor in heteosexuality but not always explicit homophobia) but individual concepts of attractiveness are shaped by myriad and immesurable influences. Also, why does the homophobia programming work in some cases and fail dramatically in others, producing the converse result?

Yes it could indeed. And it has been an enjoyable discourse. And to answer your query: Exactly. Large breasts, curvy hips, and the like are part of the same thing. In other words the idea that a long haired big breasted women with curvy hips and a badonky donk is more "Feminine" than a lithe, small breasted, short haired, small butted, slender hipped woman could be attributed to fear of homosexuality in themselves. And as I said it's completely subverted. And not absolute. And the reason it fails dramatically in others is because we are all individuals and as you pointed out earlier there are other elements involved with development of the psyche.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

I really don't think that has jack to do with it actually, there are plenty of men with really long hair out there are well.

Not to mention that girls like Ashley Scott can look amazingly hot with short hair like in Into the Blue, BOP TV show, and Just Friends, as well as Mandy Moore, Halle Berry in Swordfish, etc.

I think it has everything to do with that most guys that I know like the almost silk like feeling of hair, and do like to rub their hands through their girls hair from time to time, that and longer hair can help bring out some facial features in women as well.

Well I got into it more in the back and forth with Black Atom. But suffice to say that it isn't an absolute and its more a deep down subjective thing. Just the idea that a more curvy, long haired, rounder girl is more 'feminine' or attractive than a short haired, slender, smaller breasted woman could be an inherited built in fear of homosexuality.

And I agree utterly about Ashley Scott, Mandy Moore and Halle Berry. Heck I am a huge fan of Winona Ryder.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I don't buy that she's in danger.

Every day of his life, Clark has to be careful to control his strength and speed. Every second when he's not Superman, he's controlling it--when he walks, when he picks up coffee cups, when he pounds his typewriter. I'd say it probably takes conscious effort for him to access his strength.

I don't see why it would be a problem for him to have sex with Lois. Sure, it's a little harder to have control during sex but if you can learn to handle coffee cups and do all these fine motor movement controlling your strength, you can have sex too.

I´m sure Clark has plenty of self control.
And I´m sure Lois has plenty of trust in him and his self control.
But when I try to make an exercise of empathy and put myself in her shoes, she´s still under a guy who can crush asteroids with his pelvic thrust.
As much confidence as she has in him, I think she´d want to be the one on top and in control of the drilling procedures..

[IamtheRock3]

I blame Keven smith for all this talk

Back in the day, you didnt think superman would kill lois during sex, some stories they had kids





Back to wonder Woman

reather she can or she cant, she should at the VERY least date. It doesnt have to be AMAZONS IN LOVE book, but totaly ingoring that part of storytelling hurts her

That why I said let her bang on the first page, get it out of the way

this way if you want to to write in a realtionship you can
if you dont, DONT

but either way, it will cease to be a HUGE deal

[BnL]

I´m sure Clark has plenty of self control.
And I´m sure Lois has plenty of trust in him and his self control.
But when I try to make an exercise of empathy and put myself in her shoes, she´s still under a guy who can crush asteroids with his pelvic thrust.
As much confidence as she has in him, I think she´d want to be the one on top and in control of the drilling procedures..

I think the bigger issue would be...how does Superman's physical invulnerability translate to sexual sensitivity? Would Lois have to wear a razor-lined diaphragm just so Clark can feel any kind of sensation?

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

I blame Keven smith for all this talk

Back in the day, you didnt think superman would kill lois during sex, some stories they had kids





Back to wonder Woman

reather she can or she cant, she should at the VERY least date. It doesnt have to be AMAZONS IN LOVE book, but totaly ingoring that part of storytelling hurts her

That why I said let her bang on the first page, get it out of the way

this way if you want to to write in a realtionship you can
if you dont, DONT

but either way, it will cease to be a HUGE deal

Kevin took his cue from Larry Niven. Mr. Niven wrote "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" in 1971.

Here is a link to the text on Larry NIven's home site. It's a great read.

http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man_of_Steel_Woman_of_Kleenex.shtml

[IamtheRock3]

I think the bigger issue would be...how does Superman's physical invulnerability translate to sexual sensitivity? Would Lois have to wear a razor-lined diaphragm just so Clark can feel any kind of sensation?

YOU SEE what this type of thinking leads to Eliseu

[Eliseu Gouveia]

YOU SEE what this type of thinking leads to Eliseu

You have to understand us creative types. Entertaining these type of hypothesis is like drinking the sweet marrow of life. :biggrin:
(Hey, it´s either this or conjecturing whether the USS Defiant could take out the Babylon 5 space station :rolleyes: )

BNL, personaly, I think when Supes has sex with Lois, the pleasure is all hers.
I really doubt he draws any joy or pleasure from the experience, not if he has to be exerting complete control over his every muscle to avoid eviscerating her.
Sex is abandon to the senses, not control of them.

But of course Supes writers will come and say "oh, noes, he does have oodles of pleasure during sex. He is as sensitive to touch as any human.
Of course during the Byrne years he couldn´t even tell a 10 pound dumbbell from a 100 pound one and bullets don´t even tickle him, but he is very sensitive to the touch. Believe us."

Sure. Yeah. Right.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

I'm not sure if desiring long hair is a anti-homosexual thing.

Both men "and" women dig long hair.

Chicks dig it on guys like Fabio, highlander tv series guy, Antonia Banderas, Lorenzo Lamas used to have long hair, Tarzan you name it.

Long hair isn't just sexuality, its health and vitality as well I guess.

But long hair seems to work both as masculine and feminine as far as sexuality goes, and thats for heterosexuals mind you.

[IamtheRock3]

You have to understand us creative types. Entertaining these type of hypothesis is like drinking the sweet marrow of life. :biggrin:
(Hey, it´s either this or conjecturing whether the USS Defiant could take out the Babylon 5 space station :rolleyes: )

BNL, personaly, I think when Supes has sex with Lois, the pleasure is all hers.
I really doubt he draws any joy or pleasure from the experience, not if he has to be exerting complete control over his every muscle to avoid eviscerating her.
Sex is abandon to the senses, not control of them.

But of course Supes writers will come and say "oh, noes, he does have oodles of pleasure during sex. He is as sensitive to touch as any human.
Of course during the Byrne years he couldn´t even tell a 10 pound dumbbell from a 100 pound one and bullets don´t even tickle him, but he is very sensitive to the touch. Believe us."

Sure. Yeah. Right.


well he DOES have super sensess

super hearing

super eye sight

why not super sensitivity to counter act the invuabillty

[Stressfactor]

Back to wonder Woman

reather she can or she cant, she should at the VERY least date. It doesnt have to be AMAZONS IN LOVE book, but totaly ingoring that part of storytelling hurts her

That why I said let her bang on the first page, get it out of the way

this way if you want to to write in a realtionship you can
if you dont, DONT

but either way, it will cease to be a HUGE deal

But see, here is where I think you're going to run into trouble from fans. I honestly don't think any of them have the prude mindset that sex is *evil* BUT I don't think fans would accept a one night stand by Wonder Woman. There are a lot of people who are okay with sex but consider the one night stand a little... well, let's just say 'questionable'.

As I said before, the number of fans I saw go ballistic on various message boards because Huntress had a one night stand... man I wouldn't want to be around for the nuclear bomb sized backlash that would hit if Wonder Woman had a one night stand.

I don't think there's really an easy way out of this UNLESS it was shown in flashback and implied that this was a person whom Wondy had known for a long time and been in a relationship but just wasn't so any longer. Either way -- the whole one-night-stand implication has some overtones that really wouldn't sit well on the character.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

well he DOES have super sensess

super hearing

super eye sight

why not super sensitivity to counter act the invuabillty

Bullets don´t even tickle him.