Leave New Orleans Alone

[Gail Simone]

For god's sake, hit somewhere ELSE, stupid weather!

[section 8]

I have a sis stationed in Missippi, she says there is a bit of a panic, after Katrina i do not blame them.

[Tobias March]

I was afraid this would be a thread objecting to Banksy's graffitti protests. I'm sorry to hear the people there are being subjected to this again :frown:

[FalconX2000]

I wonder whether Reverend Hagee is already saying this is God's punishment for (insert here)...

[section 8]

Cajun food?

It's so good it HAS to be a sin.

[KevinTBrown]

No jokes.

This is fucking serious shit happening.

I just hope EVERYONE evacuates and NO ONE dies this time.

[section 8]

as do i, but the idea of this being "god's punishment" is a laughable one.

Didn't i just say i Had family in the area?

For fucks sake Kevin humor is the only way some people know how to deal with such things

[DrewEdwards]

Right after Katrina I had a comic book convention that was at the hotel next to Reunion Arena. It was so surreal having to drive by that every morning. Heart wrenching.

[Larry Dixon]

As with Katrina, Misty & I will have a bunk or three waiting* if any fans need to evac as far as Oklahoma. We're off I-44, Exit 255.

I am down with an injury for the forseeable future, but we have a couple of garage bays of tornado/hurricane relief supplies, and my network of friends/fans/volunteers are standing by.

*housekeepers especially welcome. :)

[hepcats]

Fingers crossed....

[Kevinroc]

And the Republicans are gonna celebrate how wonderful their party is while the hurricane once again reigns down destruction upon the people...

(Yeesh...)

[a. non]

I hope everyone's ok, and that it's nowhere near as bad as last time

[Blue Harvest]

Hmmm...and 3 years later the Levy system still has not been fixed.. Looks like Mother Nature didn't receive the extension request Bush mailed. We can blame this one on the Postal Service.

[Kevin Vetter]

It would be better to blame it on the genius that decided it was a good idea to build a city in a swamp that had to be drained of water just so they could build there, is below sea level and is next to the ocean.

[Robin Bougie]

Before I clicked I assumed this thread was gonna be a "Leave Britney alone" Chris Crocker spoof.

[Blue Harvest]

I suppose its that same genius that built california cities on a earthquake fault line or any other city located near an impending natural disaster. Thankfully as an advanced society we've discovered the Engineering to make it possible for these areas to withstand or at least create a buffer to these random 'acts of God'. That is we have the ability yet social inequalities still rule who's privileged enough to receive the attention. New Orleans, I truly hope all will be well.

[Major Comma]

I Also am praying for NO DEATHS .
I am relieved to hear about all these evacuation efforts .
Better safe then sorry .

[the4thpip]

We all knew it could happen again... But this is still extremely worrying.

And did you notice that tropical storm Hannah is right behind it??

http://maps.wunderground.com/data/images/at200807_sat.jpg

http://maps.wunderground.com/data/images/at200807_5day.gif

[Darediva]

I have a sister in Silsbee, Texas, near Beaumont. She's packed and ready to leave on a moment's notice because they had a lot of damage happen from Hurricane Rita right after Katrina. Most people have forgotten about Rita, except those who live in the Beaumont/Port Arthur area. Serious shit, indeed.

[Darediva]

I have a sister in Silsbee, Texas, near Beaumont. She's packed and ready to leave on a moment's notice because they had a lot of damage happen from Hurricane Rita right after Katrina. Most people have forgotten about Rita, except those who live in the Beaumont/Port Arthur area. Serious shit, indeed.

[the4thpip]

I have a sister in Silsbee, Texas, near Beaumont. She's packed and ready to leave on a moment's notice because they had a lot of damage happen from Hurricane Rita right after Katrina. Most people have forgotten about Rita, except those who live in the Beaumont/Port Arthur area. Serious shit, indeed.

I went to visit my then-boyfriend in Miami a few days after Katrina, and I left the day they were boarding up the windows for Rita. Just got out before they closed the airport, too. I remember that Rita damaged Miami a lot more than Katrina, my ex sent me some scary pics of overturned cars and blown out high rise facades.

[kingdom2000]

If it does hit (and hopefully it will not) its down to declare New Orleans a no man's land and allow the ocean to retake it (since clearly mother nature wants it back).

[the4thpip]

If it does hit (and hopefully it will not) its down to declare New Orleans a no man's land and allow the ocean to retake it (since clearly mother nature wants it back).

An educated guess tells me you have never been there?

[Kevin Vetter]

I suppose its that same genius that built california cities on a earthquake fault line or any other city located near an impending natural disaster. Thankfully as an advanced society we've discovered the Engineering to make it possible for these areas to withstand or at least create a buffer to these random 'acts of God'. That is we have the ability yet social inequalities still rule who's privileged enough to receive the attention. New Orleans, I truly hope all will be well.

So you don't see any problems in draining the water out of a swamp that is right near the ocean and below sea level so you can build a city? They are lucky this doesn't happen all the time.

Oh, and your advanced engineering that lets people live in places where they shouldn't is making the situation worse since it's making the ground new orleans is built on sink further below sea level.

[the4thpip]

So you don't see any problems in draining the water out of a swamp that is right near the ocean and below sea level so you can build a city? They are lucky this doesn't happen all the time.

Oh, and your advanced engineering that lets people live in places where they shouldn't is making the situation worse since it's making the ground new orleans is built on sink further below sea level.

In all ways that matters, New Orleans is a living thing, with a personality, memories and a soul. We don't euthanize human beings for having handicaps, and we should not do it to New Orleans. Especially New Orleans. One of the few places that actually felt like somewhere to me in the US.

[Paradox]

Kevin Vetter has it:

It would be better to blame it on the genius that decided it was a good idea to build a city in a swamp that had to be drained of water just so they could build there, is below sea level and is next to the ocean.

Bingo. It's not God's punishment. It's nature's punishment for building somewhere stupid.

[Paradox]

the4thpip cries wolf:

In all ways that matters, New Orleans is a living thing, with a personality, memories and a soul. We don't euthanize human beings for having handicaps, and we should not do it to New Orleans. Especially New Orleans. One of the few places that actually felt like somewhere to me in the US.

If it's that much of a living thing, then it won't matter if they put it somewhere else. Frankly, you seem to be saying that instead of euthanizing grandpa, we keep taking him out of the hospital and return him to in front of the truck that keeps running him over.

[Paul McEnery]

In all ways that matters, New Orleans is a living thing, with a personality, memories and a soul. We don't euthanize human beings for having handicaps, and we should not do it to New Orleans. Especially New Orleans. One of the few places that actually felt like somewhere to me in the US.

Oh, not to worry.

Pretty soon, we'll be able to say the same callous things about the Netherlands, any city that's a port, and the entirety of England.

Probably ought to have said it about Apollo 13, too: It's their own damn fault for going into space!

[Paradox]

Had the guys in Apollo 13 died, I probably would. It's not callous to say "Hey, you know the risks, you take your chances." Perhaps it just my lack of understanding why anyone would stay in places where these incidents that are hundreds of miles wide happen on a yearly basis. If they can fix it, hey, good luck to them and good job if they can, but after Katrina (and seeing how well our government "helped them out" there.), they have to know they're at a huge risk.

[kingdom2000]

An educated guess tells me you have never been there?

Nope but historical this and that isn't sufficent reason to keep rebuilding something that is clearly going to occur with greater frequencies. When it was once in a generation thing, shit happens. The cost of rebuilding is worthwhile. But now that its not even a once a decade event, its not worth it. Its in a giant bowl...let it become a lake (or swamp) and be done with it.

But don't worry, it will take rebuilding the city 4-5 more times over the next decade or so before people start giving the idea any consideration. For right now its a chance for Bush and the two candidates to make their visits and look presidential. I am sure their people already have speeches prepared for whatever does or does not ocur.

[the4thpip]

If it's that much of a living thing, then it won't matter if they put it somewhere else. Frankly, you seem to be saying that instead of euthanizing grandpa, we keep taking him out of the hospital and return him to in front of the truck that keeps running him over.

No... what you are suggesting is killing grandpa and then growing a clone in a test tube.

[Paradox]

Still better than letting that truck run him over time and time and time and time again.

See, Mama Gaea doesn't GIVE a shit about humans and their sentimentality. She just does what she does, and the fleas we are don't matter to her. If we bite, she scratches us off. If we're in the way, she doesn't care.

That's why, as Paul references, we'd better stop screwing with her or she's gonna start scratching more.

[FalconX2000]

New Orleans has way too much history in its streets to be abandoned after 2 hurricanes (which it would have survived with better levees).

Is it a stupid site when America has so much land? Why yes it is. But unless the weather changes such that New Orleans has to be evacuated en mass every couple of years regardless of protective infrastructure, the city is gonna stay where it is. Putting aside any cultural value, the cost of relocating an entire city permanently would be astronomical.

It's not like man can't overcome nature. He can. The problem is not so much 'don't f@#$ with nature' because man can, with enough effort, overcome most of it. The problem sometimes lies in how the carcass rots after he beats it (which is the case with fossil fuels). Done right, its worth the price, like regulated lumbering.

[Grazzt]

Still better than letting that truck run him over time and time and time and time again.

See, Mama Gaea doesn't GIVE a shit about humans and their sentimentality. She just does what she does, and the fleas we are don't matter to her. If we bite, she scratches us off. If we're in the way, she doesn't care.

That's why, as Paul references, we'd better stop screwing with her or she's gonna start scratching more.

Please, don't anthropomorphize the Earth. The Earth doesn't care what you do to her, and she's not "scratching" at the population of New Orleans in some fit of pique. Acting like we should exist solely at the whims of weather, the damage of which can usually be controlled by proper preparation, is defeatist.

Or do you just want them to abandon one of the busiest ports in the world and suffer the economic consequences of doing so?

[K-DoG7p7]

Still better than letting that truck run him over time and time and time and time again.

See, Mama Gaea doesn't GIVE a shit about humans and their sentimentality. She just does what she does, and the fleas we are don't matter to her. If we bite, she scratches us off. If we're in the way, she doesn't care.

That's why, as Paul references, we'd better stop screwing with her or she's gonna start scratching more.
Its Gaia..
Gaea is a creater on Jupiter..
Gaia is the goddess

[Sally Sensational]

For god's sake, hit somewhere ELSE, stupid weather!

The agreed-upon Louisiana version of this sentiment is:

GEAUX AWAY GUSTAV!

[Sally Sensational]

Oh, and two more things:

1. Sincere thanks to our overseas board members who are paying attention and sending their kind thoughts and prayers. We'll get through this and it's already going much better this time than last time.

2. For the first time in my life, I am going to use this acronym: if you don't KNOW New Orleans, if its heart, soul, and culture are not a part of your own - STFU about things you know nothing about. You don't abandon a 400+ year old city simply because of two big storms in a few years. You figure out what to do to protect it. And the fact that it's built below sea level has about as much to do with being hit by hurricanes twice in a few years as the fact that Denver's a mile high has to do with blizzards in the Rockies.

[FalconX2000]

Oh, and two more things:

1. Sincere thanks to our overseas board members who are paying attention and sending their kind thoughts and prayers. We'll get through this and it's already going much better this time than last time.

2. For the first time in my life, I am going to use this acronym: if you don't KNOW New Orleans, if its heart, soul, and culture are not a part of your own - STFU about things you know nothing about. You don't abandon a 400+ year old city simply because of two big storms in a few years. You figure out what to do to protect it. And the fact that it's built below sea level has about as much to do with being hit by hurricanes twice in a few years as the fact that Denver's a mile high has to do with blizzards in the Rockies.

All the best. How'd you get internet connection? You still in the city?


For god's sake, hit somewhere ELSE, stupid weather!

Given that I think New Orleans residents who share my sense of humour would laugh at this, I have no qualms of posting it.

Newscaster: Hurricane Gustav changed course dramatically today, and is now making a beeline for New York...

[K-DoG7p7]

2. For the first time in my life, I am going to use this acronym: if you don't KNOW New Orleans, if its heart, soul, and culture are not a part of your own - STFU about things you know nothing about. You don't abandon a 400+ year old city simply because of two big storms in a few years. You figure out what to do to protect it. And the fact that it's built below sea level has about as much to do with being hit by hurricanes twice in a few years as the fact that Denver's a mile high has to do with blizzards in the Rockies.
400? ohh please.. take a lesson from us Europeeeans..
we abandon 1000year old cities all the time.. hell just 22 years ago we abandoned a city called... what was it again.. Chernobyl i think..

400.. please..

[FalconX2000]

400? ohh please.. take a lesson from us Europeeeans..
we abandon 1000year old cities all the time.. hell just 22 years ago we abandoned a city called... what was it again.. Chernobyl i think..

400.. please..

And thus the idea of the European elitist stereotype sinks its fangs into the internet subconscious...

[schwamp]

Nope but historical this and that isn't sufficent reason to keep rebuilding something that is clearly going to occur with greater frequencies. When it was once in a generation thing, shit happens. The cost of rebuilding is worthwhile. But now that its not even a once a decade event, its not worth it. Its in a giant bowl...let it become a lake (or swamp) and be done with it.

But don't worry, it will take rebuilding the city 4-5 more times over the next decade or so before people start giving the idea any consideration. For right now its a chance for Bush and the two candidates to make their visits and look presidential. I am sure their people already have speeches prepared for whatever does or does not ocur.

If it's your house where you raised a family, had many great memories, perhaps was your parents or your grandparents house that came with a family history, you would not sound so callous and disconnected. It is an American city rich with history. It will remain as long as the city and state can manage to keep it. It may sink, in time, but it has been vital for 150 years plus. Don't lets kick it into the sea willingly.

[schwamp]

400? ohh please.. take a lesson from us Europeeeans..
we abandon 1000year old cities all the time.. hell just 22 years ago we abandoned a city called... what was it again.. Chernobyl i think..

400.. please..

Hey! Didn't SOME Europeans abandon an entire country? Or at least hand it over to a conquering force about 60 years ago? So...... what's the point of that?

[K-DoG7p7]

And thus the idea of the European elitist stereotype sinks its fangs into the internet subconscious...

Sorry can't hear you.. too busy waxing my chest and looking good getting ready to part in Ibiza ....


then tomorrow I'm going back to my castle in Switzerland

[Spiffy]

Oh, and two more things:

1. Sincere thanks to our overseas board members who are paying attention and sending their kind thoughts and prayers. We'll get through this and it's already going much better this time than last time.

2. For the first time in my life, I am going to use this acronym: if you don't KNOW New Orleans, if its heart, soul, and culture are not a part of your own - STFU about things you know nothing about. You don't abandon a 400+ year old city simply because of two big storms in a few years. You figure out what to do to protect it. And the fact that it's built below sea level has about as much to do with being hit by hurricanes twice in a few years as the fact that Denver's a mile high has to do with blizzards in the Rockies.
Of interest (and currently one of the top YouTube videos):

The Katrina Myth; the truth about a thoroughly unnatural disaster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wln_iq5bc8k)

[Tad Sivana]

Hopes and prayers with everybody in New Orleans. One of our greatest and most historically significant cities.
Just a couple of thoughts.... First, it takes time to put things back and there has not been enough time since Katrina to restore the buffer swamps and forests that used to diminish the force of storms BEFORE they hit the city and the levees. This exposure is the consequence of human folly in denuding the coastal buffers.
Second, global warming, anyone? Strong storms seem to occur more often in recent years. Can't prove that global warming is doing this, but good circumstantial evidence.
Finally....clearly God has send this storm to coincide with the Republican National Convention and remind us of Katrian in order to show his displeasure an the un-christian policies and behaviour of the last eight years of Republican governance.

[Spiffy]

First, it takes time to put things back and there has not been enough time since Katrina to restore the buffer swamps and forests that used to diminish the force of storms BEFORE they hit the city and the levees. This exposure is the consequence of human folly in denuding the coastal buffers.
The people at that Levees.Org, who made that video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wln_iq5bc8k), seem to be arguing that nobody is actually doing the work to build those wetlands back up (or for that matter, maintain the levees in the manner they should be).

[the4thpip]

Of interest (and currently one of the top YouTube videos):

The Katrina Myth; the truth about a thoroughly unnatural disaster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wln_iq5bc8k)

Thanks for that. Myths #2 and #3 should shut a couple of people on this thread the fuck up.

[Blue Harvest]

So you don't see any problems in draining the water out of a swamp that is right near the ocean and below sea level so you can build a city? They are lucky this doesn't happen all the time.

Oh, and your advanced engineering that lets people live in places where they shouldn't is making the situation worse since it's making the ground new orleans is built on sink further below sea level.

I never said it was smart decisions; no matter how well a place is 'protected' a strong enough storm will crush it. What is bothersome is knowing the flood damage could of and should of been greatly reduced had the city been properly prepared as the residents believed it was. Now, 3 years later, and lesson learned they still are not prepared. Therefore a Govt , who allows people and encourages people to live in areas they know will be the victim of another major disaster while not much is being done to better protect it will be responsible for the deaths. People of course can choose where to live, yet a large majority of people lack the resources to pick up and move at will without having to start from scratch. If you have a family to feed starting from scratch can be just as frightening as possible storms.

[Lester C.]

Not to bring down to politics, but this storm is perfect for the Republican National Convention. They can turn this thing into giant telethon and have McCain be the biggest hero ever. Normally I'd be against this kind of grandstanding but those people are going to need some serious aid and as long as they get it who cares about the motives of the source?

[the4thpip]

Not to bring down to politics, but this storm is perfect for the Republican National Convention. They can turn this thing into giant telethon and have McCain be the biggest hero ever. Normally I'd be against this kind of grandstanding but those people are going to need some serious aid and as long as they get it who cares about the motives of the source?

No idea how this will turn out yet, so no point in speculating who can get leverage from it.

After all, a Republican administration had 3 years to fix the levees. Let's hope they hold, even if it will help them. Nothing would be worse another flooding.

[kingdom2000]

If it's your house where you raised a family, had many great memories, perhaps was your parents or your grandparents house that came with a family history, you would not sound so callous and disconnected. It is an American city rich with history. It will remain as long as the city and state can manage to keep it. It may sink, in time, but it has been vital for 150 years plus. Don't lets kick it into the sea willingly.

If said city or house was killing off members of my family every few years you are sure as shit I would leave and burn it on the way out the door.

[the4thpip]

If said city or house was killing off members of my family every few years you are sure as shit I would leave and burn it on the way out the door.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wln_iq5bc8k

[moonlight_night78]

I never said it was smart decisions; no matter how well a place is 'protected' a strong enough storm will crush it. What is bothersome is knowing the flood damage could of and should of been greatly reduced had the city been properly prepared as the residents believed it was. Now, 3 years later, and lesson learned they still are not prepared. Therefore a Govt , who allows people and encourages people to live in areas they know will be the victim of another major disaster while not much is being done to better protect it will be responsible for the deaths. People of course can choose where to live, yet a large majority of people lack the resources to pick up and move at will without having to start from scratch. If you have a family to feed starting from scratch can be just as frightening as possible storms.

There were a lot of lessons learned and applied after Katrina. This time they made sure to give people ample time to evacuate and the ability to do so, wherther it be by car using contraflow or busing people out. The local and state government made sure that there were enough resources available that the only people that remain are the ones that didn't want to leave.

When Katrina hit 3 years ago, the federal government was slow to respond and the local and state government failed in properly evacuating people out. In hindsight, they didn't know that the levees were going to break, but because they did, bills were passed they sets aside money to build stronger levees and rebuild the barrier islands that protect Louisiana from storms.

What's funny to me is that when storms/diasters hit other places (Florida & Texas, for example), it's news for a month or two (if that) and it's over. But Katrina hits and now everytime there's even a threat of a storm, people come out of the woodworks wondering why people come back to Louisiana and rebuild. We rebuild becasue it's our home! Nobody ever says "Hey why live in California, they have earthquakes" or "Why live in Tornado Alley"

And theis isn't really a slam to you Blue Harvest, but just a general opinion by me

[Royal]

If you're not out of NOLA right now, you better find a tall building and hunker down tight. That place will be flooded with two types of water tomorrow.

Sea and Black. And neither are forgiving.

[moonlight_night78]

double post

[kingdom2000]

I like how easily people ignore the scale. When was the last time a major US CITY had to be evacuated because of an earthquake or tornado?

On the bright side, it seems this time local government is one the ball the residents are actually listening with 90% of the residents being reported as have been evacuated. Frankly for those 10% that remained I hope none die but I better not hear some -athon to give money to those fools later. I don't believe in rewarding stupidity.

[titanfan]

In all ways that matters, New Orleans is a living thing, with a personality, memories and a soul. We don't euthanize human beings for having handicaps, and we should not do it to New Orleans. Especially New Orleans. One of the few places that actually felt like somewhere to me in the US.

I definitely agree that New Orleans is a city that's alive. However, I've always felt that there's an undercurrent of something dark and very creepy there. The people there are wonderful, but I don't think I could ever live in that city.

[Sally Sensational]

I like how easily people ignore the scale. When was the last time a major US CITY had to be evacuated because of an earthquake or tornado?

On the bright side, it seems this time local government is one the ball the residents are actually listening with 90% of the residents being reported as have been evacuated. Frankly for those 10% that remained I hope none die but I better not hear some -athon to give money to those fools later. I don't believe in rewarding stupidity.

Anyone refusing to evacuate has been repeatedly and very pointedly warned that there will be no services forthcoming from the city, state, or federal gov't. Also, any resident spotted on the streets as of 6:01 pm will be immediately arrested.

Thankfully, both Arkansas and Louisiana have had enough Guard troops cycled back home from Iraq that they have the security situation pretty well in hand, both in the evacuated cities and along the highways being used as evac routes.

[Matt Doc Martin]

I sincerely hope that this storm weakens further and does no damage.

Furthermore, I hoe whatever administration takes over does what is necessary to end the danger to New Orleans by fixing the levees, and working to add natural barriers.

In this day and age,no one need die from a storm you can predict for days out.

[Kevin Vetter]

I sincerely hope that this storm weakens further and does no damage.

Furthermore, I hoe whatever administration takes over does what is necessary to end the danger to New Orleans by fixing the levees, and working to add natural barriers.

In this day and age,no one need die from a storm you can predict for days out.


Um if we have to add it then isn't that the opposite of a natural barrier? The barrier was already there. The place was a swamp and prone to flooding which should have kept them from building a city there in the first place.

If you think it's a good spot for a port then thats fine. Just have the people that work the port live there. There would be far less of a problem than there is now.

[CutterMike]

Based on the arguments that New Orleans should be abandoned -- then, historically, the Netherlands should have been abandoned (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_the_Netherlands) in the 13th cetury, never to be built on again.

"1212: Noord-Holland suffered a large flood with approximately 60,000 victims.
1214: Storm flood affecting all parts of the Netherlands. Much erosion of peat areas.
1219 January 16: St. Marcellus' Flood (Sint-Marcellusvloed). Large parts of the north of the Netherlands and the Zuiderzee region were inundated, killing an estimated 36000 people. This was the 4th large flood in 50 years."

...Nearly 100,000 deaths in seven years...? Four major floods in 50 years?

Pfffttt! We've got a ways to go before we hit THAT level, and then we'll do what the natives did there:

Rebuild and get on with life.

[Cam63]

Good luck to all.

[the4thpip]

Um if we have to add it then isn't that the opposite of a natural barrier? The barrier was already there. The place was a swamp and prone to flooding which should have kept them from building a city there in the first place.

If you think it's a good spot for a port then thats fine. Just have the people that work the port live there. There would be far less of a problem than there is now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wln_iq5bc8k

[FalconX2000]

Thanks for that. Myths #2 and #3 should shut a couple of people on this thread the fuck up.

Actually, myth #2 is kinda irrelevant from what I see. I seriously doubt New Orleans could be a major port with today's ships if it still had all that marshland between it and the ocean. The levee failure part was rather enlightening though.

[DavidAllred]

Actually, myth #2 is kinda irrelevant from what I see. I seriously doubt New Orleans could be a major port with today's ships if it still had all that marshland between it and the ocean. The levee failure part was rather enlightening though.

Myth #3 was even a bigger jump in logic... other cities are below sea level? The European cities for example, don't sit squarely on a set of tracks that bring a 155 mile per hour train every few years. It's apples and oranges. In fact, no other city mentioned is in the path of nature's most devestating event -- a hurricane.

But the levees should be built better...

And on the plus side, it looks like this storm is much weaker than Katrina -- and everyone seems to be taking it more serious.

[sk716]

So you don't see any problems in draining the water out of a swamp that is right near the ocean and below sea level so you can build a city? They are lucky this doesn't happen all the time.

Oh, and your advanced engineering that lets people live in places where they shouldn't is making the situation worse since it's making the ground new orleans is built on sink further below sea level.

Oh, I get it, you think we're only in danger of this kind of flooding and disaster from hurricanes on the coastline.

Nope.

These same kinds levees run along every major river in the United States.If you live within striking distance of one of these rivers, you're relying pretty heavily on them. The recent Missouri flooding was made worse by the failure of some of the levees along the Mississippi.

And for the record, New Orleans isn't the only city built on or around a swamp. Among them, Little Rock, Chicago, Miami, and New York City.

Actually, most of Florida, what's not a swamp is coast line. Should we just abandon Florida altogether?

[Sally Sensational]

Good luck to all.

Thanks, Cam.

An answer to the wetlands question: When the wetlands were there, it was STILL a major port. The city was founded because there was a natural port there. It's called the Mississippi River Delta. Even with the wetlands intact, branches of the Delta were large enough and deep enough for large ships to make port.

Before you make the "it couldn't be a major port with all the wetlands there" argument, do a little reading on New Orleans importance during the Civil War BEFORE the majority of the draining and real levee building had occurred.

[section 8]

Storm or no, Levee, or no, New Oleaens is home to these people . it is onething to move away, but to ask everyone who calls this place home to systematicaly abandon it?

I dont think it has come this far yet. New Orleans has had a hard time, and possibly more hard times to follow, but i dont expect them to abandon it if they have any choice in the matter.

[KevinTBrown]

No way should New Orleans be abandoned. The saddest thing of all though is that it was never fully rebuilt after Katrina hit. Outside of the French Quarter, Business District and Garden District, large chunks of real estate are still in shambles.

Regardless of whatever party is in office come 2009, they're the ones who'll need to deal with rebuilding that city and its surrounding area. Given the fact that the last time the ball was fumbled numerous time in this "game" by the current administration, does anyone really want to see a repeat of it?

This should not be treated as a "learning experience that we get right the next time".

I just hope that the people living on the Gulf Coast aren't abandoned by the US Government like last time. I'm cynical enough to feel that they will be, but also optimistic enough to hope otherwise.

[K-DoG7p7]

http://www.vg.no/uploaded/image/bilderigg/2008/09/01/1220285321623_914.gif

yum....

[bfrank]

I like how easily people ignore the scale. When was the last time a major US CITY had to be evacuated because of an earthquake

LOL........

[FalconX2000]

Thanks, Cam.

An answer to the wetlands question: When the wetlands were there, it was STILL a major port. The city was founded because there was a natural port there. It's called the Mississippi River Delta. Even with the wetlands intact, branches of the Delta were large enough and deep enough for large ships to make port.

Before you make the "it couldn't be a major port with all the wetlands there" argument, do a little reading on New Orleans importance during the Civil War BEFORE the majority of the draining and real levee building had occurred.

Are you saying that New Orleans with its old marshland could handle most of the shipping that it handles today? All those huge container ships and tankers?
Big ships today are hell to turn and stop. They need tugboats to get in and out of port. They need deeper water than wooden ships used to. I'm skeptical. Very skeptical.

[Matt Doc Martin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wln_iq5bc8k

This was well done and corrected some misconceptions I had. And I have worked with the US Army Corps of Engineers...I have seen how little oversight they have and how bad it can get. This just shows the scale.

Um if we have to add it then isn't that the opposite of a natural barrier? The barrier was already there. The place was a swamp and prone to flooding which should have kept them from building a city there in the first place.

If you think it's a good spot for a port then thats fine. Just have the people that work the port live there. There would be far less of a problem than there is now.

Some of the levee designs have helped destroy the natural protection the city had. Redesigning things to help with building up the delta is using technology to help nature. Don't try to parse words.

[section 8]

LOL........

ohhhh....LOL it took me a minute

[K-DoG7p7]

I dont get it..

[section 8]

Evacuation....from an Earthquake....no? nothing?

[K-DoG7p7]

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/54/545/545465/sx79982b_1220294964.jpg


yup... LOTS of water

[kingdom2000]

LOL........

He is pointing out you can't predict an earthquake. I am saying that even after an earthquake, the city doesn't have to be evacuated. Usually just a few unstable buildings cleared and thats about it. Even after Oakland its not people had to leave it for a period of time. Unless a volcano opens up near a major city, no other type of natural disaster requires a complete evacuation of a city.

As for the rebuilding, it has been poorly handled and likely remains so (NO gov't corruption is common knowledge). Its starting to look like its probably a good thing since all that money would have been wasted. Really, the rebuilding should wait until the levees are built up and "fixed" to withstand a level 5 hurricane. Once that is accomplished, then rebuild the city. There is no point is spending billions on the interior if the walls are still down.

[sk716]

I was watching the Weather Channel this morning and saw something very interesting on the radar, the eye of Gustav was on a direct path towards New Orleans. Then upon reaching the Louisiana coastline suddenly took a sharp turn towards Texas.

I was inspired (image may take a minute to load):

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i194/sk716/gustav_ani.gif

[DrewEdwards]

Ummmmmmm...

[Darediva]

Oh, and two more things:

1. Sincere thanks to our overseas board members who are paying attention and sending their kind thoughts and prayers. We'll get through this and it's already going much better this time than last time.

2. For the first time in my life, I am going to use this acronym: if you don't KNOW New Orleans, if its heart, soul, and culture are not a part of your own - STFU about things you know nothing about. You don't abandon a 400+ year old city simply because of two big storms in a few years. You figure out what to do to protect it. And the fact that it's built below sea level has about as much to do with being hit by hurricanes twice in a few years as the fact that Denver's a mile high has to do with blizzards in the Rockies.

Thank you. Because the same thing people are saying could be said about Miami, Galveston, Mobile, Corpus Christie, Beaumont/Port Arthur, or even the east coast. New Orleans, and a great deal of Louisiana, has a population and culture unlike anywhere else. You have to have been there maybe, to realize it, but I know I've been, and it's a great place.

[section 8]

He is pointing out you can't predict an earthquake. I am saying that even after an earthquake, the city doesn't have to be evacuated. Usually just a few unstable buildings cleared and thats about it. Even after Oakland its not people had to leave it for a period of time. Unless a volcano opens up near a major city, no other type of natural disaster requires a complete evacuation of a city.

.

......Bingo!

[Kevin Vetter]

Oh, I get it, you think we're only in danger of this kind of flooding and disaster from hurricanes on the coastline.

Nope.

These same kinds levees run along every major river in the United States.If you live within striking distance of one of these rivers, you're relying pretty heavily on them. The recent Missouri flooding was made worse by the failure of some of the levees along the Mississippi.

And for the record, New Orleans isn't the only city built on or around a swamp. Among them, Little Rock, Chicago, Miami, and New York City.

Actually, most of Florida, what's not a swamp is coast line. Should we just abandon Florida altogether?


Can I call you the next time I have a discussion about anything so I know what my thoughts on what ever the topic is are? What I thought my views were must be wrong since they don't match what you just said.

[the4thpip]

Can I call you the next time I have a discussion about anything so I know what my thoughts on what ever the topic is are? What I thought my views were must be wrong since they don't match what you just said.

Exactly. Your views were badly informed opinions based on faulty information. Glad you accepted that.

[CutterMike]

So you don't see any problems in draining the water out of a swamp that is right near the ocean and below sea level so you can build a city?
(...)

Oh, I get it, you think we're only in danger of this kind of flooding and disaster from hurricanes on the coastline.
(...)

Can I call you the next time I have a discussion about anything so I know what my thoughts on what ever the topic is are?
(...)
Let's see, here...

1 -- KV comments, using a rhetorical technique of restating what he believes an opponent's position to be.
2 -- SK responds with the EXACT SAME rhetorical technique.
3 -- KV gets in a huff because someone is putting words in his mouth,

Irony, thy name is Vetter.

[Zeb Oswalt]

It turned out to be a little storm if that. We'll see what Ike does. We didn't even get much rain down here in Covington. I even got an extra day of work once every thing was back to normal. Still, it gave me a story to write. This Goosdtoff, still he wasn't much of a concern here on the north bank. We had thunderstorm that flooded us more here in Covington. Kartina was awful, but Gostoff not so much here. She went from a 4 to a 3 to almost nothing quickly. We even sat on the pourch and watch tree branches get thrown ariound drinking coffee. Governer Gendell was on the ball. He and his team did a lot better than Blanko did for Katrina. This was a great dry run for our govaner and he and his team did well, as did the coast guard as always. They always do well in these situations. I have relatives in Lafayette, Little Rock and Pineville that unforuntly were hit badly. Still, we did all right here.

[section 8]

You there! "Zeb" is it? I just want you to know i am sooo stealing that sig!

[Cam63]

I was watching the Weather Channel this morning and saw something very interesting on the radar, the eye of Gustav was on a direct path towards New Orleans. Then upon reaching the Louisiana coastline suddenly took a sharp turn towards Texas.

I was inspired (image may take a minute to load):

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i194/sk716/gustav_ani.gif

The only thing missing is her eyes emitting lightning bolts.